Amazing how people deny plain scriptures about pharaoh.... When God has not revealed the doctrines of grace to you, it doesn't matter what your credentials are, or how gifted you are, you will always deny the truth.
Shayla alyahS, You first neme is the inversion of your 2nd name :)) Like Calvinism is the inversion of Arminianism,,,, Calvinism is indeed wrong and I can even say that Calvinism is an evil doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies.... However, The doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is really Biblical.... God indeed Predestined the Elect before the foundation of the world to be saved.... and the none-elect to be cast to the lake of fire... Jesus Christ was indeed sent by the Father for the Elect only.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo I have no idea what you're talking about I just put my name up there the way I did because I did not want to put my real last name on the Internet please stop looking for evil in someone's name when there's plenty of evil in the world.. have a blessed day
@@shaylaalyahs2997, Sorry if you misinterpret my message, I am not looking for evil in your name...And how it could be evil???? The evil that I was talking about is the doctrine of Calvinism...... Are you a Calvinist? Why are you so much offended for the thing I've never said about your name... bye.....
The whole matter, to my mind, boils down to this: If one is saved one will eternally praise God for one's salvation. If one perishes, one will blame ONLY himself for his perdition!
God knows who will be saved and lost not because it is predetermined or causes it to happen but because He knows the heart. He knows who will respond and who wont in the end
You’ve lost your freedom to choose to be lost? When you’re already in the safe hands of Christ. Come on Pastor Doug. We are so caught up on free will that we lose sight of what’s important which is safety in Christ.
Thank u pastor Doug I been listening to pastor McArthur and feel he has helped me in my walk with Christ but recently been confused on some things about predestination and elect it got me worried and scared as a Christian because I started thinking maybe I’m not going to be saved it was hard felt really down and defeated and in a way thinking I don’t know what I believe but I will never give up on god I need Jesus badly and want him but also I kept remembering what the gospel was and still is and what Jesus taught and the apostles what they said it just didn’t make sense I agree calvinism is so dangerous and I’m praying for him and other preachers who teach this to see the gods truth ! it’s sad and misleading especially to people who are trying to learn and have a relationship with Jesus
we never are saved by works but by christ the works come when we give ourselves to christ to do good works yes i to am a sda and this is what we believe
Hello, everyone, I read all your comments and I can understand your frustration. Batchelor sometimes is not complete in the ideas been presented. I strongly suggest you if you want to understand the issue with faith/grace/law/works, watch this video or series. You can find it in youtube, Three Angels message series, video number 20 specifically deals with this issue. You can watch this video and then watch the series from the beggining for further and more amplified understanding. I truly suggest that when you see this videos pray and asked the Lord to take away all preconceived thoughts. Pr. Stephen Bohr has many series such as Cracking the Genesis Code, misunderstood text on the state of the dead, his way is in the sanctuary, secrets unsealed anchor school of theology, etc. you can go to his website, Secrets Unsealed. I promise that if you watch it with clear mind you will be fill with light. God Bless you All.
Karen Diaz Well thank God Karen showed up. I mean, bachelor only has decades of experience and two degrees in his field. But Karen has opinions! And those always win...
Thank you for this teaching . God is so good I pray I will always make the right choices and that Gods Holy Spirit will continue direct me and guide me to repentance whenever I need everyday . Thank you Doug .
R L 2 Corinthians is pretty clear. New International Version And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches. God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will. To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”-Isaiah 48:18. Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”-because we want to.-Matthew 22:37. Doesn’t God control all things? The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.
“We love because he first loved us” 1 John 4:19 We love God in the only spiritual way possible, by giving God something impossible for him to create, our gratitude which is the only thing we can create without material support from God. For the major cause of spiritual darkness in Christianity, is the illusion that our inner goodness combined with our free choice, two things that could only come from God, that giving back to God a small portion of what he gave us, that this is what qualifies us for salvation. In short, that God is our puppy dog, as he must please us well enough so that we are sure to choose salvation.
Here in Britain we have a TV soap opera called Eastenders, which I haven't watched for a while. You may remember the story of Kat and Alfie Moon, where Kat cheated on him, and Alfie forgave him, but Kat kept cheating on him and in someway used his forgiveness as a licence to cheat. I can't tell you how many people today (myself included) have done that with God at somepoint
i asked a calvanist preacher if the Elect has been predetermined, than praying for salvation for others isn't needed. He said, oh no, no, we can pray anyway!
I think the most common Christian understanding is that in this life, we are saved from the record of sin, and SOME of the power of sin. Then at the resurrection of life, instantly saved from the rest of the power of sin and the presence of sin. I'm not saying it's correct, but it's the most common understanding and my former belief based on observation. Now this might be partly true because there has got to be many (if not everyone) who died with ignorant sin remaining. I still can't draw the exact line between saved and lost, although it could be if you pledge allegiance to any part of the flesh, no matter how seemingly small the sin is. Catholics believe in a purgatory to relieve the rest of the ignorant sin.
God says in Jer. 1:5 before he formed you in the womb I knew thee ; that God ordained Jer. a prophet unto the nations. Sounds like predestination to me
Heb 10:26-39 (v.38) is speaking of drawing back from the FAITH in Jesus Christ -- the ONLY way you can lose your Salvation (a Gift) is if you knowingly REJECT it. to be an OVERCOMER, you simply must remain in FAITH that "Jesus IS The Christ/Lord" until you die (1John 5:4-5)
@6:37, Bro. Doug says: "Part 3: Limited Atonement. Jesus died only to redeem those who are pre-chosen, or, 'the elect'." I wonder if bro. Doug has actually thought through his theological perspective on the issue of the atonement. If he has, then certainly he would be able to answer some basic questions concerning it. Here are some questions I would ask bro. Doug: 1) Does the atoning work of Christ *actually* save sinners, or, merely *potentially* do so…but they have to add something (i.e. faith) in order to make His work efficacious for them? 2) If Jesus atoned for the sins of every single individual human begin without exception, then for what reason will any end up being judged and destroyed in the lake of fire? 3) Are those who are destroyed in the lake of fire destroyed for unbelief alone, or, all of their sins (cf. Rev. 21:8 for a list of sins for which the wicked will be destroyed)? 4) If they are destroyed for unbelief alone, is unbelief not a sin? 5) If unbelief is not a sin, then why are the wicked destroyed in the lake of fire for it? 6) If unbelief is a sin, then didn't Jesus atone for this one as well as all the other sins? You see, at some point bro. Doug must limit the atonement. His own theology demands it. He must limit it by saying: 1) Christ's atoning work *did not atone for the sin of unbelief* ; therefore, Christ atoned for the majority of men's sins, but not all sins (i.e. unbelief); or, 2) Christ's atoning work needs something added to it (i.e. faith) in order to make it efficacious; or, 3) Unbelief is not a sin, therefore, Christ did not atone for it (because it's not a sin, you see). Discussion welcome. Soli Deo Gloria!
Arminian version of Roman 9:18-19 "So then he has mercy on whom he wills and He hardens whom He wills. You will say to me 'why does he still find fault, for who resists His will?' That is a good question, o man, because the thing molded knows better than the molder." lol
He's free to disobey God's command 🤷🏻♀️ God didn't send an angel to swipe him off his feet and bring him to the next destination - he voluntarily went.
@@MichaellaSapphire But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a CHOSEN instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. (Acts 9:15, ESV) God doesn’t need to send angels, He just have to change Paul’s heart (regeneration) and the rest is history. He is chosen, God is sovereign who He wants to save and to use for His glory.
When someone is doubting that God is telling the truth when He says: (Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”), That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That person is calling God a liar and doubting that God truly saved us in Jesus Christ. That is the only sin that will not be forgiven. No sin is condoned, but all will be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12: 31). He is preaching arminianism!!!!!
If God knows all things (He is omni-prescient), one must ask 'how' He knows all things. Pastor Doug seems to believe that God knows all things as a result of looking down the corridors of time to observe everything that would happen. But this view on Divine Epistemology has God being dependent upon His own creation for His knowledge of it. The Reformers strongly disagreed with this! They held that since God is NEVER dependent upon His creation, this cannot be how God knows all things.
Ryan Gallmeier I don’t understand the logic. How that has to flow together like this. Since God knows everything, He knows every possible outcome of every possible thing that could happen. He is the beginning and the end. He has this knowledge prior to the world even being formed since He made the covenant with Jesus before the foundation of the world. For what would happen in the world to redeem us from sin. Before anyone had sinned. Why does there have to be a telescope looking through time? To say that God knows all things. We could take an analogy of a choose your own adventure book. The author wrote the book He knows all the possible things you could do in the book and where that will lead you, but that doesn’t negate the fact that you have the choice to choose your path.
T: Total Depravity Taught plainy in Scripture U: Unconditional Election Taught in Scripture plainly L: Limited Atonement plainly taught in Scripture I: Irresistable grace Plainly taught in scripture P: Perseverence of the saints Plainly taught in Scripture
You say the Word does not teach perseverance (I interpret preservation), see these verses. Rom 8 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
I understand that we can't and will not understand the work of our Father, but asking to believe that we are His 'puppets' sounds just too crazy for me. The Bible says that He loves everyone, therefore He would want/choose everyone. From my perspective (which can be wrong) I just can't think of God doing all these great works, even sending His holy son to suffer and die, for people that He already selected to be with him. It just makes no sense. There would be no need for human experience, there would be only heaven already. God does not need to play a game like that (in my opinion) to show us that He is Sovereign. God does not need to show off, post on Facebook that He Can and will only choose this or that because He is God. He is God. Was and will be forever. He is powerful, loving, truthful, faithful and no matter what we do or think nothing will change his Sovereign because that is who He is: God! lol... And, because He is God He can do whatever, He could even destroy the whole humanity already and He chose not to, but to save whoever listen to Him. Yes we are sinners, yes we were already dead, so please, why would God again, waste His Almighty time with us, choose to save only few and not all, or to destroy us all? I can't understand the mind of my Creator and I'm OK with that because I trust Him. But I can't accept a preaching that controverts the goodness, faithfulness, and love for the world, of my Father in Heaven.
Talita Telles Colombini The idea is not that he chooses who already pre-chose him. The idea is, he rigged up the whole thing before he started time, before the first second passed. You don't have a choice. He wrote your character in the story as one who gets saved or one who didn't. Technically, it's already done. Like a story you may write; you have a hero and an antagonist and some supporting characters. The antagonist can't say to you "why am I a bad guy? That's not fair". Well... Yes. It is. It's your story. You'll do what you please. But the antagonist can't say that because you didn't write him to. Every character in a story makes choices but their choices have already been made by the author to get a story across. Humans do this all the time. That's why some people are better than others. They're the heavy hitting heroes of this world. Most people are background characters that don't do much. Only few can be superman and iron man and etc. I see no difference when God is referred to as the author and finisher of our faith. You write stories where the people in them make choices and you don't think you're a monster. Why can't God?
Geoff Dick Thank you so much for your response! =) I find everything that you said very interesting and I can almost agree with you, only if we didn't have the Bible. Regardless of your opinion or your own understandings, do you have any reference from Scriptures where you can prove what you just said? You see, with God, it is not simply what we "think", it is really black and white. In order for us to understand more of His character, we must study from His Word, right? Do you agree with me on that one? So... His Word says that He is JUST. This is ALL OVER SCRIPTURES. Now you asked the question: "You write stories where the people in them make choices and you don't think you're a monster. Why can't God?" Well... because then God would be UNJUST. Or do you think it is fair, to act in such way? I am sorry but to believe that God is using us as puppets, (in the sense of: making some act in unrighteousness and then putting them in hell for those actions that were not even theirs but forced on them do to it, and then sending others to heaven because they were forced to be in the righteous way) it is to believe that God is not very JUST. And that simply goes totally AGAINST THE WHOLE BIBLE!!! And don't get me wrong, I understand that also all over the Bible there is God's hands DIRECTING some events and people's decisions, but it is never addressed that we are still not responsible for our own actions. God MUST interfere now and then, not just because He is in control but also to direct huge events that MUST TAKE PLACE. Now, regarding our own salvation, it is on US, to BELIEVE AND RECEIVE IT. (For heaven's sake this is all over the new testament ALONG with the Old testament prophecies regarding the Messiah!) The fact that God foreknows whosoever will believe in Him and Receive His son, doesn't necessarily mean that He made us do it. You gotta read the whole book of Romans man, and you will see what I am talking about. Romans 8: 20,21 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, IN HOPE 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. GOD SAW HOPE IN US. Keep reading.. keep reading.. I am not done! lol Romans 8: 28-30: 28 And we know that all things work together for good TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD, to them who are the called*** according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, HE ALSO did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he ALSO called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. See the order? First God knows who will LOVE HIM (even being put through this mysterious life and some through sufferings) .. (Go back to the first verse I shared on Romans 8:20,21 -That is why I said to keep on reading... this is all connected) ..so,God besides identifying these people, then God ALSO PREDESTINATE them, to be conformed to the image of His Son, and THEN HE CALLS US... So that is the HOPE we are talking about, that is why God sent His son, because He had hope foreknowing who would at least bother to know Him a bit better. So then since we are predestined, then He calls us, so we are then justified and will be glorified, by the blood of the Lamb. Praise God!
Talita Telles Colombini Yeah. He's just. The problem is humans believe they know what justice is. Things that you're convinced are not just aren't actually unjust. That's the big problem we have; we don't know what justice is and/or isn't. See; if God is perfect then there can only be one answer. There cannot be more than one since the perfect answer is the the one, single, best and perfect answer. Perfection demands uniqueness. So whatever answer we do come up with, there can only be one.
Talita Telles Colombini Okay: so I write an issue for a superman comic for example. And in that comic, some bad guy does something that gets a few people killed. But then me, the author, decides to write superman into the story to save them. So he kills a few bad guys and imprisons the rest. So those who got killed, those who went to jail and the innocent lives lost... Is that unjust? Well... No. It's my story. Mine. I'll do what I want with it. The characters in those stories are so far below me that they cannot judge me or stop me. Not even superman can hurt me. I can do whatever I want to those people. They don't define justice. I do.
Geoff Dick Brother, I really do appreciate your kindness and effort to try and explain to me your point of view. I still didn't get any support from Scriptures though, and yeah we only know about justice because God Himself has taught us what that is and how to act on that, in order to please Him and be in harmony with our neighbors. So... that would be now calling God a liar... hmmm see, I really think that besides making WAY more sense to understand that we do have our free will to some degree, it is also safer to believe in that rather than to go that far and start to get a total messed up character of our Lord.
It is prophecy being fulfilled for sure, it is amazing to see, false teaching, so blatant! None of those trusting Batchelor are checking him out with the word of God, they are just listening to everything that he is saying as the gospel truth. If the Lord's word didn't say that there would be false teachers in the last days I would say it was unbelievable! Two great verses to protect us believer's, to be diligent to know God's true saving gospel truth in God's word: Jude 1: 3-4, 2 Peter 2: 1-3.
@24:21, Pastor Doug says, "you can't force somebody to love you". But the Bible COMMANDS all men everywhere to Love God. This is a command, not a suggestion. Not only this, but the command comes with a a consequence for failure to do this: if you do not love God, you will perish. Is this not a type of coercion? Is this not a kind of 'forced love'? These issues do not even get brought up in Pastor Doug's sermon; and he must deal with these issues if he is to be consistent. The more 'insightful' atheist will bring up similar questions; and we, as Christians, must be able to give a defense in light of these types of inquiries.
Escorpion Venenoso Do you think that when God commands something (eg. to love Him), that it implies we have the ability to do so? I would argue, along with Luther, Calvin, and all the other Reformers (arguing contra Romanism) that imperatives (commands) do *not* imply ones ability to do what is commanded. What about Jesus' words: "No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him…" (Jn.6:44)? Is Jesus teaching that we have the ability to "choose" to come to Him? Or, is our Lord restricting fallen man's ability to come to Him (notice the words, "no one *can*…")?
Escorpion Venenoso So, you're not going to answer any of the questions I asked? You have simply made assertions, with no substantive argumentation to back it up. Please actually make an argument if you want to respond again.
Escorpion Venenoso So you believe that when God gives a command, it means that we have the ability to obey it. Thanks for clearing that up and informing everyone that you agree with the Romanists over-and-against the Reformers on this issue.
The Bible teaches that we ought/must/are commanded to choose to believe. It does not teach, however, that fallen man has the ability to make that choice (cf. Jn.6:44); rather, he only chooses to disbelieve, because that's all he can do. And just how did the Reformers hold to "popish traditions" when they specifically refuted and rebuked Roman Catholic assertions that "ought implies can"? The Reformers said that "ought does not imply can". Apparently the Reformers taught contradictory to Rome, on this issue. And please show me where the Bible says that "We have the choice to obey it"? Citation, please...
11-1-19 There could never be a video exposing predestination/determinism, without a swarm of calvinists (or any other type of determinists) in the comments of that video's section. Any determinist in the comments section that have taken issue with Doug Batchelor, my questions are-- why are you doing so? If (in your worldview) everything is caused and controlled by the sovereignty of God, then why are you determinists trying to thwart the "secret" will of God-- by challenging Doug Batchelor on predestination?
God foreordained your statement, yet you had perfect free will to write or not to write it. That's an example of predestination and it's all over the Bible my friend.
Dick Grayson I agree with you. Those who think Jesus didn't die to give ALL of us the opportunity to choose salvation are in great spiritual darkness. We must pray for them. The whole thought process of predestinaton is so ludicrous and unBiblical, not to mention nonsensical, cruel and unfair, that it's hard to imagine why it continues to exist--except that there are those who are distracted by their own selfish and proud thinking. It is a demonic belief to get people to ignore God and believe as though they need not seek Him nor to be obedient Him. It is hard to comprehend how someone so brilliant and apparently close to God like John Calvin could be so in error. But that is why we must read the scriptures for ourselves and ask God to enlighten us. To show us His truth and keep us from being in error. What insanity to think that Jesus didn't die for is all to have opportunity to be saved. The Bible is so clear that we are responsible for our choice--i am reminded of Joshua 24 and how the people had a CHOICE to decide who they would follow. Are we to believe that their choice to serve God was only because they were already going to do that ANYWAY?! Well, what's the point of all of this life then anyway? If a person doesn't know if they are saved then they may as well ignore God and do whatever they want cause of they weren't going to be saved, there's nothing they can do about it. If they ARE saved then there is nothing they can do to lose it. So they can live for satan, rape, pillage, rob, murder, and do all manner of iniquity and it doesn't matter. Man!! What a load of lies. Satan must basque in the evil of this deception. Why did Jesus go out to the people for and speak His words of truth? Why did He try to draw anyone if there wasn't choice. "Go and sin no more" He told the woman accused. WHY? Of it doesn't matter because she was saved anyway. This was a great message, Pasto Doug. Thank you and God bless you. And thank you for the upload whoever uploaded it. God bless you too. 🙏
@@rickhinojosa5455 Show me the word opportunity associated with salvation in The Bible. You said your reading the scriptures. Show show me this opportunity word that you reading.
Being in Christ you will not be in want/without food or water n needing to swim to higher ground. Outside of Christ it’s down hill not higher ground not a better life but a worse one leading to eternal damnation so another false equivalency there. You can not juxtapose being in Christ safety as being in the safety of men, almost all unquenchable desire in man to save mankind in any situation is a deep under the surface desire to control them. God is not like man. In his presence is fullness of joy, at his right hand pleasures forever more there will be no need or want to get to higher ground. Beneath the ocean floor with Christ is safety, on the mountain top with Christ is still safety.
Wow... So..... Reading this "Contemporary English Version" side by side with the original Greek is very very different. It's scary HOW different the people that wrote the CEV made Romans 8:29. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God "allowed" anything. Predestined and allowed are two VERY different words with VERY DIFFERENT meanings, and the Greek most definitely says "predestined". Super scary interpretation of the scripture.
InhumaneJEKyll, The Scriptures is not Scary if God will reveal to you the Truth.... Calvinism is indeed wrong and I can even say that Calvinism is an evil doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies.... However, The doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is really Biblical.... God indeed Predestined the Elect before the foundation of the world to be saved.... and the none-elect to be cast to the lake of fire... Jesus Christ was indeed sent by the Father for the Elect only.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2 ESV "Whole world"
@@CrashCartHero, [[ Nowhere in the Greek does it say God "allowed" anything. Predestined and allowed are two VERY different words with VERY DIFFERENT meanings, and the Greek most definitely says "predestined". ]]=> from your post... So you believe in predestination.... Only the elect are predestined to be saved... 1 John 2:2 was written for the elect only, the elect are scattered through out the world, and John was talking to the congregation in Israel, so he means all the elect through out the world.... The reprobate(none-elect) can never be saved....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:30-32 ESV "All people"
There’s no such thing as being extra merciful as it relates to God. He is just, and what that parable regarding the vineyard is saying is that not matter the point of contact when u are called don’t think you are more justified or more valuable than those who are called later. It could possibly go for the Jews who considered themselves God’s chosen, well not because I choose you (the ones that did a full days work) n now that salvation as come to the gentile world (the ones called later who would have done an hour work) the reward of salvation, justification n sanctification is the same(same wages) so in essence longevity on the Christian path does not mean u get a crown shiner that new believers, we are all adopted in to family of God and the point of your calling means little the fact that you are called means everything. No such thing as God is being unfair because he’s too fair, God is Just. And there’s no levels to his mercy to say that he was being extra merciful to me because the gospel came to me at a later point that it did another person n to think that after. The fact that man was totally depraved and we are not instantly struck down as we sin is mercy in n of itself. The fact that the wicked is allowed to prosper in earthly ways n continue to live while he carries out his evil deeds without being immediately consumed is God’s mercy. The problem is that we don’t like the idea of predestination because in our prideful n sinful state it doesn’t seem fair to us, and just like the atheist Pastor Doug is playing devils advocate asking what kind of God would do this or that, the kind that is sovereign the kind that does not need my or your permission to do anything, the kind that if it was in his nature to go full on dictator there’s nothing you or I could do about it but thankfully he’s is not, when u say what kind of God would do this or that it’s like u think u can use shaming tactics n language to get God who resides in the heavens and whatever pleases him n works everything to his good n righteous please and that in itself is something for us to rejoice about he is just. But again we don’t want to wrap our minds around predestination because humanly it doesn’t seem fair but Roman’s 8 it is pretty straightforward, in Ephesians 1 it’s pretty straightforward again. And with Esau n Jacob it mean the nations n the individuals themselves, Jacob was in no means innocent or purer than his brother, his brother came in hungry u he did not feed him instead convince him to sell him his birthright n we like beat up on Esau saying we can’t let hunger rule us n I’ve heard many sermons beating up on Esau as if what Jacob did wasn’t even more wrong n more wicked he was not innocent party, he also got his brother’s blessing through ill-means another sinful act but he was elected by God the transformation work just did not begin yet n his sin nature was more dominant in his life, both parents had their favorites of the twins too another dysfunction in the family. Esau became angry as a result of Jacob actions there is no account in scripture that said Esau was just wicked from inception n the total depravity means both were sinful from inception but one was chosen to be the seed of the woman n the other the seed of the serpent. Them the work of transformation begun in Jacob’s as a result of him being chosen n not him just thinking one day that he needs to change.
I wish Doug would go into more detail in Romans 9 particularly verses 16-24. He went into "easy believism" more than Calvinism. There are plenty of people who discuss this. Calvinism does not teach about people being saved even though they have committed to refusing to obey the moral law. Calvinism teaches that the law will be written so thoroughly in the hearts and minds of the elect that it cannot be overridden and are as likely to choose and remain in a course of evil as God Himself. Yet the unelect will continue in life long lawlessness until their time on earth is up. I am curious as to the potter/clay analogy because clay has no mind of its own. Whilst I am Arminianist in my views, this is an odd chapter unless it is talking of nations such as God choosing Israel as the starting node for the gospel. This sermon does cover 3 topics rather than dedicated to Calvinism alone which teaches a type of eternal security - that of automatic sanctification. It is a certainty that they will turn from their sin. This is Calvinism. Those and only those who have been chosen by God will automatically receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour because it is written in their hearts and minds to do so. Then they will automatically co-operate with sanctification, because it is written in their hearts and minds to do so. I'm not saying this is biblically true but that is the position of Calvinism to the best of my knowledge.
Not at all but he studies them n their proper context and also compares them to other verses in Scripture just as we are instructed in the Bible to do. You are accusing him falsely. People who teach in once saved always saved take a few verses without studying them deeply and in their proper context and then cast out the bulk of the other verses that don’t harmonize with their preconceptions.
@6:25, Bro. Doug asks: "Do we all agree that God knows who's gonna be saved, right now? Does that mean that He chose arbitrarily; or, that He knows what we will choose? Big difference." First, no Calvinist is saying that 'God chose arbitrarily'. Rather, He chose us, "according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace" (Eph. 1:5-6). This refutes any idea that God chose "arbitrarily". It might not be the answer that men are looking for; but it's the biblical answer, and should be good enough for any Christian. Second, the question I would ask bro. Doug is, "how does God know what we will choose?". Has he ever thought about this? Has he done any study in Church History, or, Historical Theology to find out how Christian scholars from past ages have tried to answer this? I can assure you that they talked and wrote about this very topic. This is a question of Divine Epistemology: how God knows stuff. Does He learn stuff from His creation…as an Open Theist would claim? Does He know all things beforehand [that is, 'is He omni-prescient']? And if He does, how does He know all things beforehand? Does He know all things beforehand because He is omni-observational? That is, does He 'look down the corridors of time, and see all that will happen'? To affirm this perspective, one would have to admit that their view of Divine Epistemology is that God's knowledge is based upon an Empirical epistemology, which, in turn, would make God's omni-prescience ultimately dependent upon His own creation. This, the Christian should not abide. The Reformed have always rejected the theological/philosophical assertion that God's knowledge is based upon empiricism, or, empirical means. Rather, we have always affirmed that God knows all things beforehand *because He has decreed all things beforehand !* In other words, God's omni-prescience stems from His eternal decree(s). Any view of Divine Epistemology that diminishes God's independence from His creation (His complete "otherness") is one that diminishes, ultimately, our view of God on-the-whole. Any view of Divine Epistemology that makes His attribute of omni-prescience dependent upon His creation in any way (as an Empirical Divine Epistemology does!) is diminishing an attribute of God, who is always, only ever, self-dependent. Hope this promotes discussion. Let me know what you think. Soli Deo Gloria!
Were you conceived in the womb without your consent? Were you conceived in sin without your consent? (Ps. 51:5). Were you born a sinner without your consent? Were you born at all without your consent? Are not all who are 'in Adam' deserving of hell? (Rom. 5:12-14). In other words, human, creaturely "consent" really has nothing at all to do with justice when it comes to being sinners, and how God will deal with them. *Soli Deo Gloria!*
Ryan Gallmeier Just keep in mind; if his choices are unconditional, you still may not be going anywhere near heaven. And from one Calvinist to another, I will be happy to see Gods will done if you burn or are saved. I will be just as happy as he is to watch you burn forever or be humiliated forever without hell. Believing now is conditional. Election is unconditional.
God is the creator if he decided to force us to love or stay n abide in him there’s nothing we can do about it. You saying you can’t force someone to love u is looking at God from man’s perspective. He will not force us to love him but don’t say he can’t. And the fact that your heart has changed you see the good in abiding in God, the see the pleasures of the world his only for a season because him electing you from the foundation of the world n then the point of contact which we already established is not the same point for everyone of the elect, the fog is removed from your eyes n now that you have seen the joys of the lord why would u want to leave? What virtuous woman leaves a husband who’s treating her well? And even if she does when the experiences the evil out there at the point of contact she will return when she sees that husband with open arms willing to take her back. Christ is faithful husband that doesn’t react to the actions of the wife. We need to put aside the physical n mental images of the needy Jesus, begging us to come to him n yearning for our love while we flirt with everything else n He’s just there with tears in his eyes n a nail scared hands begging you to stop doing bad things n come, that’s not who Jesus is n he’s is going to crush the wicked ie the unelected whether we like it or not but it is for a witness that God is just n has been merciful to all mankind even the wicked. To say that God look down the corridors of time n see then John Doe would respond positively to the gospel but Jane Doe wouldn’t doesn’t that still mean Jane Doe is destined for damnation, if there’s a possibility that Jane Doe would turn would God know? Can Jane Doe turn n surprise God? That means God would not be all knowing. And with John Doe the spirit keeps pressing n pressing until he responds positively but God knew he would have already which means he was destined to be saved. Again we don’t like the idea of predestination because it doesn’t sound fair in our view but it’s not for our view it’s for God’s glory everything is for his glory. He has chosen a people n loved them before the foundation of the world but that doesn’t go for everyone n we battle with that mentally. But you know what’s also not fair is that we all deserve death, we all were once enemies of God through or sin nature and all of us should be dead but God made him he knew no sin to be sin, the person and work of Christ is why there is even an elect. And the plan of salvation was not a contingency plan it was there before the foundation of the world and things unfolded just the way God planned it. It was not there as a just in case man sins, like an insurance policy, that would be God is not all knowing. He knew how everything would unfold n all of this is for his glory whether we like it or not. We view love through sentiment n that’s why we try to say love is not or can’t be forceful but love means even tho u don’t see it yet I’m acting in your best interests to save you because you don’t have the knowledge enough to understand that yet, what parent sees their child running towards danger n not grab them violently n pull them back? Is that not love? Or because it was gentle n soft n mushy it’s not love? When you send a love one into AA or rehab isn’t that an act of love? They don’t see it yet because of the addiction that is impairing their judgment n ability to chose good for themselves, was that an action of force if they were willing to go? But u acting in their best interest because they are unaware now used force. What parent ask their child how to raise them? As parents you make executive decisions in your child’s life out of love n having their best interests? So tho they may not like school u sent them anyways because they can’t see the benefit now but they will, you don’t allow them to have ice cream n a big bar of candy for breakfast every morning even tho they’d want to? Isn’t that imposing authority n ultimately forcing them to have what you know is healthier? Love can be forceful, especially with God who knows when left to our own devices we will not choose him because of our sin nature.
My dear Friends, It appears to me that there is an absolute conflict between the plain understanding of EGW's words and the words of Scripture. This is confirmed by those who teach her teachings and historically the view of the Church leaders over the years. For example, EGW says that all of our sins are under review to determine if believers are "worthy of eternal life." The New Covenant says over and over that the Father says to believers, "your sins and iniquities I will remember no more." Why is Jesus disobeying the Father in this matter and seemingly putting all believers in jeopardy? This to me is irreconcilable conflict. How do I justify believing in two different views which seem to be in direct conflict? May I suggest two more examples in which I find it difficult to accept? EGW is described officially as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth." Yet she taught and held to the fact that "God showed her" that Jesus was the archangel Michael "whom God raised to equality with Himself." Bible believers say and prove that Jesus was eternally equal with God, Jesus said by the testimony of Himself and others that He was equal with God, and the "I am" of Scripture. Hebrews chapter 1 asks, "to which of the angels did he ever say, 'thou art my Son; this day I have begotten thee.' " She taught this fact for decades as a continuing and authoritative source of truth." I see a direct conflict here in my thinking. Do I have cognitive dissonance, or is there a problem? EGW taught on at least 5 different occasions 5 different dates for the return of Jesus and the end of the age. The first two are quite interesting. The first date was Oct. 22, 1843. When checking the historical records and newspapers of the time, it appears that Jesus didn't listen to EGW and so He decided not to show up. She then said in essence that "God held his hand over the numbers....as a test of our faith." In other words, "God lied." She then tried to say, "we forgot about the year zero." She affirmed that God showed her this new truth that He would come back on Oct. 22, 1844. Again checking the headlines of the time, it appears Jesus was again not listening to Ellen G White. She then tried to cover up her false prophecy by saying that the reason you didn't see Him was that he returned invisibly and just changed locations in the Sanctuary. I have a problem. The Scripture says: 1. "No man knows the day or the hour..even the Son of Man." 2. At His return, the Scripture says, "Every eye shall see Him, and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced." 3. EGW said that when changing locations in heaven, Jesus entered the Holy of Holies for the "first time", to be at the Father's right hand. The Scripture says that immediately at His ascension (at least 24 times), He went immediately to the Father's right hand. As Stephen was dying, he even gave eye witness testimony that Jesus was at the Father's right hand already. I have a problem with accepting EGW as being a "continuing and reliable source of truth." In fact Moses said:Deut 18:20-22 20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. KJV Is my imagination running wild here, or is there a problem. Would you be willing to consider these questions . I think that our eternal destiny hangs in the balance, if we have the wrong Lord Jesus Christ. Your friend, Bob Koivisto www.rethinkingadventism.com
Bob Koivisto One reply to all that you just said, "out of context" Everything you just commented on required absolutely no research on your part did it? It sounds like you made your mind up before gathering all the evidence. Shameful.
Bob Koivisto And second of all, I'm an Adventist and I go by the Bible as my textbook for my life, not necessarily sister White's writings. Even she herself says not to depend upon her literature alone, but recommends scripture above all! So evaluate everything before becoming the executioner. And furthermore, I without a shadow of a doubt believe that the LORD used Ellen White to pull back the curtain of history & eternity and gave us more insight on what took place and what will take place in the near future. The LORD's prophets don't stop with the book of Revelation. Having said that, she never added to the Bible nor took away from it, just expounded more upon it. She basically wrote an inspired Bible commentary.
You're not a friend of any of us. I recently became adventist. I barely knew about Ellen. But i came when the quarterly was teaching about interpreting scripture. So i could care less about what Ellen says. She is a lesser light to the scripture just like the Talmund is to the Tanakh. The bible is clear and I rebuke you!
Read Romans 3 and Ephesians 2. All men are depraved and none seek after God. Men are DEAD in sin. The ONLY way we can come to spiritual life is by God changing our hearts and this is a sovereign act of God alone. Men without the Spirit of God cannot please God and will not submit to God- Romans 8:7-8. There is no "neutral" ground where humans can choose God without being regenerated by the Spirit of God
I didn't say that I am a Calvinist, but at the same time am not offended by those words. You claim that you have studied the word's of God and not men. Please tell me what depraved theology are you talking about. 1Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear...What is the gospel that you are preaching and is it taught by the Word of God. Are you arminian or not?
You can argue over calvinism and arminianism all you like. A true believer in the gospel can articulate from the Holy Bible; because the gospel is the same as it was from the beginning! You have tried times to avoid stating your own teaching on salvation. In fact I have studied SDA on my own, and know the answers to, what they teach on salvation. Frankly, it is works righteousness and modern version of pharisees (mystery babylon). Check it out, stop following church traditions as opposed to God
He is confusing belief's in theology. I believe in eternal security, or once saved always saved, but I am not a Calvinists. I don't believe in many of the 5 points of TULIP.... Just because I believe that eternal life is eternal from the point of conversion, doesn't mean I am a Calvinist.
Romans 8 & 9 refute arminian theology. Read Romans 9 and it is like Paul is directly arguing with an arminian! lol. Arminian theology teaches that the ultimate decision for salvation is up to us not God which makes God impotent to the almighty free-will of man.
I think pastor Doug is deliberately misconstruing a lot here to put his message across. Once the Holy Spirit is at work in you the inclination to sin reduces. How can the saving grace be active in your life n u would want to continue to sin as u want without remorse? You are limiting God n that’s not what once saved always saved means it means because u are saved and your heart is changed your sin nature will no longer mess up your salvation because it’s not up to you.
Arminianism was heretical theology from its beginning, check out the history of its roots, and don't be so easy going on accepting it as harmless if you are saying it is the gospel. As I tried to ask you before, what do you say is salvation? From all I've researched, SDA promote a works based salvation. I know that they may say the right things to sound orthodoxy, but after that they don't cling to the truth when they say to maintain salvation you must accomplish their list of do's and don'ts.
Nah fam. I dont know bout all that fancy smancy theology. but hear this. You cant just go on sinning. Paul, several times throughout his letters denouces the wrong ideologies. the ppl was like : " yo Paul we doing all this work we going to heaven". Paul was llike : "nah fam do you even believe? yall tryna boast" and one time ppl were tryna "believe" a phatic belief with no work meet with that belief. So the truth is a little more complex. You are saved by your belief only. But if you killing ppl and not repenting and praying evryday an all that...is you really a believer? Hah... i shut you up ...
@@Xev729 That is you trying to now sum everything up to your list of do's and don't. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the the unpardonable sin. It is offensive to those that try to add to the finished atonement by Jesus Christ, His death, resurrection and ascension>. He is the saviour, and that needs to be understood. Doubt is to turn yourself into some type of pseudo saviour. The foundation of the gospel must take precedence at every turn, or you are have gone back to trusting your own works which only leads to falling short of salvation. Things are at a red alert level, and that is why Jesus Christ came to give the New Covenant of Him being the saviour to those whom believe. The adverse is to stay in a works based salvation in its various shape shifting, and that leads to humanism, that person being a demigod. Foolishness
R L, Yes, I agree with with you .... But Calvinism is an evil doctrine.... Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies....... For instance the Statement below which is the base of Calvinism is evil because it contradicts the Character of God and cannot be supported by the Scriptures.... ''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify Him by their destruction.''
@@hobosekschuel8290 you need to study your Bible. The word "foreknew" is "loved beforehand", not "knew what you would choose". The Scriptures are plain and clear that salvation is "according as He has chosen us". And "according to His mercy, he saved us." Many more irrefutable, impossible to twist Scriptures. The notion of free will salvation is utterly not to be found in Scripture.
The worse analogies. Using a bank deposit security n juxtaposing it to one being elected n abiding is Christ is also disingenuous, if the transformation work of the spirit has changed my world view why would I want to withdraw from Christ? i.e withdrawing my money from the bank when I want to base on the analogy? You see why it’s false equivalency fallacy. This is your life as opposed to your money. And even if we take the back analogy if I decide that I am disciplined enough n I’m letting this deposit stay until 20yrs which would be symbolic to the end of time n coming of Christ for the saints, it the bank/Christ has shown me all the security that it’s pretty safe n anti theft n assured me no one can steal my money/life from the bank/Christ why would I want to withdraw? Would would I not leave my money/life until the the time of its maturity which 20yr/the end of time n receive my reward which is interest on my money for the 20yr/a crown of gold n immortality n to live in the new Jerusalem why would I withdraw? If my deposit was for a specific time. The bank/Christ as assured me I’m 100% safe, why would I then withdraw to go n try another bank or someone else, wouldn’t that be a fool’s errand? And mention of Calvin n Luther etc at the beginning to say there were excellent Bible students but they weren’t perfect in a bid to debunk the doctrine aren’t we all not perfect? Can we not say the same about Sister EG White? Who the church holds in such high esteem calling her writings the lesser light? Was she also not perfect? There is no lesser light there is just the light which is the Bible that testimony of Christ. Her writings support the Bible n made simple complex issues for the believers but is not to be taken for any light. Christ is the light n with EG white’s writings is not a need for any Adventist believer because with much prayer n humility the spirit will lead us in to all truth n bring us the meaning of things we read in the Bible itself. This is just a game with the Baptist of my dad is bigger than your dad or my founding fathers are smarter or more credible than your founding fathers. We need to be careful of what our intentions are, I know thy works said Christ meaning I know what you did n also why u did it. There is a lot of things in this sermon I find disingenuous but we are all here to learn. I don’t claim to have super knowledge but I think there were many oversight n it’s not for to say they were deliberate or not but there were oversights n misconceptions.
Is not the Bible The Word of GOD of prophecy (meaning something foretold predestinated to happen?). It is not possible to speak about something that is going to happen if it was not predestinated from before... and for such things to happen everything has to fall in place with what it is determinated/written. And that means that people will act/react in a certain way for things to take place... correct?. Well it doesn't take much common sense to understand... Romans 9 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. As He also said... Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Everything foretold. He will do it and will not change. Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Psalm 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord. Isaiah 46 8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory. So once again.... " it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy"
There is no forceful love Pastor Doug? you know that’s not what it means n you are then limiting the transforming power of the spirit. You are elected from before the foundation of the world but you were also born total depraved because of Adam’s federal headship and your connection to him, at the point of contact with the holy spirt your desire for sin is changed because you are in a fallen world perfection is not yet achieved so the work of the spirit in u makes u remorseful when u sin n u cry out to God, understanding that self reliance is not a thing n you of your own strength can not stand. And that analogy of someone throwing u a life jacket but leaving u in the water is a silly n disingenuous one and I’m sure Pastor Doug knows this I’m not Calvinist but I know that’s not what idea of once saved always save is and sin you say Calvinist believe that we have no choice or doing in our saving n nothing is up to us n God is forcefully saving us which is also not the belief either, wouldn’t it be contradictory to say one throws u a life jacket n tells u to try n swim in to paradise hotel, the fact u have to swim in means you are playing a big role in your saving, the life jacket stops you from sinking but your works (you swimming in) is what’s saving you too n that’s work’s righteousness. We want credit that’s our problem. We can’t shake the need to be important n have some say in what happens to us so God saved me but it was I who made the decision to answer his saving call so I deserve so credit for being smart enough to respond to the call while my neighbor over there wasn’t as intelligent enough to respond? Is that what we’re saying? His election then the point of contact from the sweet Holy Spirit changes our hearts n changes our view of sin, we get rewired so now we are very aware of our sins. Here an example of our appetite to break rules, you’ll be walking through a park pass a dozen benches never had the thought of sitting or touching one until u see one with the sign “don’t touch, wet paint” now all of a sudden u want to find out if it’s truly wet but the sign is there n it says it’s wet but that’s not enough for you that bench is enticing as ever now cuz some is telling u u can’t touch it. What the spirit work would do now is help u resist than urge, if u do end up touching it still u are overcome with grief over your actions n repent of them. That’s not the same for sinner the only grief they feel is when consequences come to bite them directly after their actions, if they get away scratched free it’s on to the next adventure.
I’m sorry Doug I appreciate most of your sermons but on this topic you are gravely incorrect. Man is incapable of choosing God as seen in Romans 3:11-12 and therefore God is the one that chooses us. We cannot choose God because we are spiritual dead as explained in Ephesians 2 and so we can’t do do anything about it. It is entirely on God’s grace not on how much we try and our faith to believe is given by God as seen in Ephesians 2:8-9. There’s a lot more but for the sake of this comment I’m gonna leave as it is for now.
No such thing as free will. we have choices not free will. Those choices have costs or rewards. Jesus did God's will 99% of the time, the 1% was when God gave him the authority to give his life and then to receive it back through resurrection in order that Jesus truly gave it of his own free will. ALL ELSE IN THE HEAVENS AND EARTH ARE SUBJECT TO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.
Consider that you could be wrong and go humbly to God in prayer about the truth. You are not God. Accept that you know nothing and that there is always more.
Free will is taught no where in the bible ... Yes we do have Choice.. but what ever choice we make was Made by God .... Everything was made by God. Free will is a Man Made Concept!
Yes. I absolutely believe that. I wrestle with these confusions all my life. No matter how preachers and apologists try to explain this, the whole concept makes absolutely no sense. God is the creator of all. He chose to create man with all its flaws. Man is not the creator. God is. God decided to create his plan, not man or Satan. The question is: Where all these bad things come from? The fact that God foreknew everything makes it even worst. I have 3 theories: 1. Either God never says thee things 2. They may have a different meaning 3. Some authors write this stuff in the bible. Can someone explain Romans 9-11?
If we have a God given choice then we have the ability (free will) to choose. The will of God is all powerful so ultimately it will be done. The wicked do not have to be wicked...they choose to be. God is Righteous, and doesn’t pick at random some of the wicked (before salvation we are all wicked) to be saved and others lost.
we cant make the bible fit our little boxes-we must accept the truth told-Jesus was chosen to die before foundation of earth so was the elect chosen and names written in book of life-all was predetermined and predestined.he cant be a true apologetic and twist scriptures.
so many errors.... but what should we expect from a molinist ? lots of 'stories' and lots of concepts that are defined without biblical references "the fact that Jesuitism places FREE WILL at the summit" admits Edgar Quinet,"had the result that its doctrines harmonized with contemporary strivings after freedom...Luther and Calvin had DENIED the freedom of the will;Loyola's disciples,pressing through this breach in their opponents'(Jansenists) defences,won over modern men precisely because of this feeling of freedom pg.87" Rene Fulop-Miller(Power and Secret of the Jesuits ) "the most important point in this system of 'Molinism' was the ASSUMPTION that man,is through his will,enabled constantly to resist Grace,so THAT IT DEPENDS ON him WHETHER IT IS EFFECTIVE OR NOT pg.97"
God made us with brains and he wants us to reason. As it says in His Word (Isaiah 1:18). Saying man does not have free will is not reasonable. You are making choices every day. If you choose to sin, was it God's choice for you to sin? Are you saying that God chooses those that will be lost, then burns them for something that HE chose? That is the definition of evil. That is not the character of God.
Doug, you and like everyone else are Arminians, freewill you love and that's the nature of man because he loves Self!!!!! What you are teaching isn't anything new, actually sounds boring.
Yes, if it were not for God, no one would love him , no one would seek after him, you claim to know the scriptures, but for some reason you do not know the true nature of man, you must think people are not that bad, I tell you the truth men love sin more then they love God, if you do not believe that your lost for you are calling God a lair.
The pastor uses human logic and departs from clear biblical teaching. I am not one to label myself either Calvinist or Arminian, but I see logical fallacies in this message. Paul, by the way, did not use poetical language. He, as a lawyer, used legal language. This subject is so deep that one should not pit one viewpoint against the other. The pastor mocks Calvinists somewhat. By the way, HE believes in the year 1844 doctrine of the 7th Day Adventists! Where in Scripture is this?
unfortunately that is not true. in 1844, there was no such doctrine. 1000's of text in the bible do not support all this claims. let bible speak for himself and not let speculate, please.
Actually the bible was write to an ancient people, a long time ago we are to learn from them, well that is what Jesus said to us in John 17 the end of the chapter if you look it up, He said "that they would believe by their(apostles) words", God also says we have a great cloud of witnesses who were before us, we come to the knowledge of God by the witness of others,(people of long ago) things they did and said , not by what you do or say, we only come to faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit when the Gospel of Jesus Christ is spoken about, there are very few places where the people in the future of the Apostles are spoken about, the bible is their testimony, not my,not yours! Theirs,(period) Can we learn from them absolutely, but if the Holy Spirit doesn't teach you the basic truths how can He trust you with greater things.
Doug, you don t sound convincing. I would rather listen to Erasmas on freewill, who actually gives a good challenge in this debate. Your argument is very weak and sloppy!!!
He has not given us an accurate definition of Calvinism but rather something of a Billy Gram who is half and half or what you would call an " Cal-minian" He has a Mix of Calvinism and Arminianism and what confussion!!!!!!
@6:37, Bro. Doug says: "Part 3: Limited Atonement. Jesus died only to redeem those who are pre-chosen, or, 'the elect'." I wonder if bro. Doug has actually thought through his theological perspective on the issue of the atonement. If he has, then certainly he would be able to answer some basic questions concerning it. Here are some questions I would ask bro. Doug: 1) Does the atoning work of Christ actually save sinners, or, merely potentially do so…but they have to add something (i.e. faith) in order to make His work efficacious for them? 2) If Jesus atoned for the sins of every single individual human begin without exception, then for what reason will any end up being judged and destroyed in the lake of fire? 3) Are those who are destroyed in the lake of fire destroyed for unbelief alone, or, all of their sins (cf. Rev. 21:8 for a list of sins for which the wicked will be destroyed)? 4) If they are destroyed for unbelief alone, is unbelief not a sin? 5) If unbelief is not a sin, then why are the wicked destroyed in the lake of fire for it? 6) If unbelief is a sin, then didn't Jesus atone for this one as well as all the other sins? You see, at some point bro. Doug must limit the atonement. His own theology demands it. He must limit it by saying: 1) Christ's atoning work did not atone for the sin of unbelief ; therefore, Christ atoned for the majority of men's sins, but not all sins (i.e. unbelief); or, 2) Christ's atoning work needs something added to it (i.e. faith) in order to make it efficacious; or, 3) Unbelief is not a sin, therefore, Christ did not atone for it (because it's not a sin, you see). Discussion welcome. Soli Deo Gloria!
Hebrews 4:2 KJV - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
God chooses in salvation, not man. Faith is a gift from God to His elect.
Amazing how people deny plain scriptures about pharaoh.... When God has not revealed the doctrines of grace to you, it doesn't matter what your credentials are, or how gifted you are, you will always deny the truth.
GOD HARDENED PHAROAHS HEART IRRESPECTIVE OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES!!!
Doug denies the gospel!!!!
Reprobation is taught in the Bible!!!
This is a deportable and reprehensible sermon
@14:16 "granted...the Grace of God does intervene in our life"
THE GRACE OF GOD DOES NOT FAIL!!!
Romans 8:29 has bothered me for YEARS!!!! So glad to get some understanding.. Thank you Lord
Shayla alyahS,
You first neme is the inversion of your 2nd name :))
Like Calvinism is the inversion of Arminianism,,,,
Calvinism is indeed wrong and I can even say that Calvinism is
an evil doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth
and man-made Lies....
However, The doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is really Biblical....
God indeed Predestined the Elect before the foundation of the
world to be saved.... and the none-elect to be cast to the lake of fire...
Jesus Christ was indeed sent by the Father for the Elect only.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo I have no idea what you're talking about I just put my name up there the way I did because I did not want to put my real last name on the Internet please stop looking for evil in someone's name when there's plenty of evil in the world.. have a blessed day
@@shaylaalyahs2997,
Sorry if you misinterpret my message, I am
not looking for evil in your name...And how it could be evil????
The evil that I was talking about is the
doctrine of Calvinism......
Are you a Calvinist? Why are you so much offended for the thing I've never said about your name... bye.....
Because of the human inclination to sin, it is difficult for videos like these to receive a perfect "like" score.
I hope the dislike button comes back. It was taken away during the pandemic to limit free speech.
The whole matter, to my mind, boils down to this: If one is saved one will eternally praise God for one's salvation. If one perishes, one will blame ONLY himself for his perdition!
God knows who will be saved and lost not because it is predetermined or causes it to happen but because He knows the heart.
He knows who will respond and who wont in the end
Pastor is confusing Reformed theology with Hyper Calvinism. He is presenting a strawman argument
You’ve lost your freedom to choose to be lost? When you’re already in the safe hands of Christ. Come on Pastor Doug. We are so caught up on free will that we lose sight of what’s important which is safety in Christ.
When you are saved the old nature is replaced by the new (2 Corinthians 5:17).
I can not save me, only God can save.
Only God can save you, but God respects your choice not to want to be saved.
@@jesusisc0mings00n3 No He doesn't.
Thank u pastor Doug I been listening to pastor McArthur and feel he has helped me in my walk with Christ but recently been confused on some things about predestination and elect it got me worried and scared as a Christian because I started thinking maybe I’m not going to be saved it was hard felt really down and defeated and in a way thinking I don’t know what I believe but I will never give up on god I need Jesus badly and want him but also I kept remembering what the gospel was and still is and what Jesus taught and the apostles what they said it just didn’t make sense I agree calvinism is so dangerous and I’m praying for him and other preachers who teach this to see the gods truth ! it’s sad and misleading especially to people who are trying to learn and have a relationship with Jesus
we never are saved by works but by christ the works come when we give ourselves to christ to do good works yes i to am a sda and this is what we believe
Escorpion Venenoso
there was 5 who actually started the SDA
church
where is your evidence ?
, you speak from ignorance Okeetee 3
Brad Sexson we are saved by faith plus works. We are not saved by faith alone.
TULUP was not known by Calvin this summary was developed by the Synod of Dort
Wow! Did i need this. Roots are watered now.
Hello, everyone, I read all your comments and I can understand your frustration. Batchelor sometimes is not complete in the ideas been presented. I strongly suggest you if you want to understand the issue with faith/grace/law/works, watch this video or series. You can find it in youtube, Three Angels message series, video number 20 specifically deals with this issue. You can watch this video and then watch the series from the beggining for further and more amplified understanding. I truly suggest that when you see this videos pray and asked the Lord to take away all preconceived thoughts. Pr. Stephen Bohr has many series such as Cracking the Genesis Code, misunderstood text on the state of the dead, his way is in the sanctuary, secrets unsealed anchor school of theology, etc. you can go to his website, Secrets Unsealed. I promise that if you watch it with clear mind you will be fill with light. God Bless you All.
Karen Diaz
Well thank God Karen showed up. I mean, bachelor only has decades of experience and two degrees in his field.
But Karen has opinions! And those always win...
Amen, Pastor Batchelor!! 🙏
eternal life, is it possible?
How can you lose a gift from God (eternal life through accepting Jesus as your savior) that you could never have attained by your own righteousness?
great, thank you.
Thank you for this teaching . God is so good I pray I will always make the right choices and that Gods Holy Spirit will continue direct me and guide me to repentance whenever I need everyday . Thank you Doug .
brilliant preacher who says the truth.
+TinaLovesJesus What is Truth?!
Jimmy THE S
Jesus is the one and only way truth and life,give yourself to Jesus because its only iin him you can find true life.
The Father sent the Son to save those who the Father gave Him: His sheep, the elect, the church, the saints, the called. NOT EVERYONE!!!!
R L 2 Corinthians is pretty clear. New International Version
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
RL.....
Only if that teaching was found in scripture 🤔
But it's not....
God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches.
God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”-Isaiah 48:18.
Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5.
Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”-because we want to.-Matthew 22:37.
Doesn’t God control all things?
The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.
“We love because he first loved us” 1 John 4:19
We love God in the only spiritual way possible, by giving God something impossible for him to create, our gratitude which is the only thing we can create without material support from God.
For the major cause of spiritual darkness in Christianity, is the illusion that our inner goodness combined with our free choice, two things that could only come from God, that giving back to God a small portion of what he gave us, that this is what qualifies us for salvation. In short, that God is our puppy dog, as he must please us well enough so that we are sure to choose salvation.
Good sermon
John 3:16, Romans 3:23, 3:10, 5:12, 6:23, 5:8-9, 10:9-10, 10:13, 10:17, 2 Peter 3:9-10
Here in Britain we have a TV soap opera called Eastenders, which I haven't watched for a while. You may remember the story of Kat and Alfie Moon, where Kat cheated on him, and Alfie forgave him, but Kat kept cheating on him and in someway used his forgiveness as a licence to cheat.
I can't tell you how many people today (myself included) have done that with God at somepoint
i asked a calvanist preacher if the Elect has been predetermined, than praying for salvation for others isn't needed. He said, oh no, no, we can pray anyway!
I think the most common Christian understanding is that in this life, we are saved from the record of sin, and SOME of the power of sin. Then at the resurrection of life, instantly saved from the rest of the power of sin and the presence of sin. I'm not saying it's correct, but it's the most common understanding and my former belief based on observation.
Now this might be partly true because there has got to be many (if not everyone) who died with ignorant sin remaining. I still can't draw the exact line between saved and lost, although it could be if you pledge allegiance to any part of the flesh, no matter how seemingly small the sin is.
Catholics believe in a purgatory to relieve the rest of the ignorant sin.
Oh man the snidely whiplash comment killed me I love you pastor Doug!
God chooses in salvation, not man.
Amen!
HALLELUJAH...
God says in Jer. 1:5 before he formed you in the womb I knew thee ; that God ordained Jer. a prophet unto the nations. Sounds like predestination to me
Doug Batchelor the POPe of SDA is the only one you listen I bet.
which part made you think that?
Heb 10:26-39 (v.38) is speaking of drawing back from the FAITH in Jesus Christ -- the ONLY way you can lose your Salvation (a Gift) is if you knowingly REJECT it. to be an OVERCOMER, you simply must remain in FAITH that "Jesus IS The Christ/Lord" until you die (1John 5:4-5)
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, … - 2 Peter 2
+Renato Moniak You Sda's are super delusional .. it amazes me.
@6:37, Bro. Doug says: "Part 3: Limited Atonement. Jesus died only to redeem those who are pre-chosen, or, 'the elect'."
I wonder if bro. Doug has actually thought through his theological perspective on the issue of the atonement. If he has, then certainly he would be able to answer some basic questions concerning it.
Here are some questions I would ask bro. Doug:
1) Does the atoning work of Christ *actually* save sinners, or, merely *potentially* do so…but they have to add something (i.e. faith) in order to make His work efficacious for them?
2) If Jesus atoned for the sins of every single individual human begin without exception, then for what reason will any end up being judged and destroyed in the lake of fire?
3) Are those who are destroyed in the lake of fire destroyed for unbelief alone, or, all of their sins (cf. Rev. 21:8 for a list of sins for which the wicked will be destroyed)?
4) If they are destroyed for unbelief alone, is unbelief not a sin?
5) If unbelief is not a sin, then why are the wicked destroyed in the lake of fire for it?
6) If unbelief is a sin, then didn't Jesus atone for this one as well as all the other sins?
You see, at some point bro. Doug must limit the atonement. His own theology demands it.
He must limit it by saying:
1) Christ's atoning work *did not atone for the sin of unbelief* ; therefore, Christ atoned for the majority of men's sins, but not all sins (i.e. unbelief); or,
2) Christ's atoning work needs something added to it (i.e. faith) in order to make it efficacious; or,
3) Unbelief is not a sin, therefore, Christ did not atone for it (because it's not a sin, you see).
Discussion welcome.
Soli Deo Gloria!
KJV Deuteronomy 5:6
Arminian version of Roman 9:18-19 "So then he has mercy on whom he wills and He hardens whom He wills. You will say to me 'why does he still find fault, for who resists His will?' That is a good question, o man, because the thing molded knows better than the molder." lol
I wonder if the Apostle Paul had free will on the Damascus Road when he encountered the Risen Christ.
Yep. Before, during, and after. And God predestined him from persecuting Christians, to being among the greatest of Apostles.
Yeah some people say God doesn't force anyone. Try telling that to Paul.
He's free to disobey God's command 🤷🏻♀️ God didn't send an angel to swipe him off his feet and bring him to the next destination - he voluntarily went.
@@MichaellaSapphire But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a CHOSEN instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. (Acts 9:15, ESV)
God doesn’t need to send angels, He just have to change Paul’s heart (regeneration) and the rest is history. He is chosen, God is sovereign who He wants to save and to use for His glory.
@@MichaellaSapphire What if Judas because of his freewill decided not to betray Jesus, would salvation of the elect be accomplished?
When someone is doubting that God is telling the truth when He says: (Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”), That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That person is calling God a liar and doubting that God truly saved us in Jesus Christ. That is the only sin that will not be forgiven. No sin is condoned, but all will be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12: 31). He is preaching arminianism!!!!!
If God knows all things (He is omni-prescient), one must ask 'how' He knows all things.
Pastor Doug seems to believe that God knows all things as a result of looking down the corridors of time to observe everything that would happen.
But this view on Divine Epistemology has God being dependent upon His own creation for His knowledge of it.
The Reformers strongly disagreed with this!
They held that since God is NEVER dependent upon His creation, this cannot be how God knows all things.
Ryan Gallmeier
I don’t understand the logic. How that has to flow together like this.
Since God knows everything, He knows every possible outcome of every possible thing that could happen. He is the beginning and the end. He has this knowledge prior to the world even being formed since He made the covenant with Jesus before the foundation of the world. For what would happen in the world to redeem us from sin. Before anyone had sinned.
Why does there have to be a telescope looking through time? To say that God knows all things.
We could take an analogy of a choose your own adventure book. The author wrote the book He knows all the possible things you could do in the book and where that will lead you, but that doesn’t negate the fact that you have the choice to choose your path.
T: Total Depravity
Taught plainy in Scripture
U: Unconditional Election
Taught in Scripture plainly
L: Limited Atonement
plainly taught in Scripture
I: Irresistable grace
Plainly taught in scripture
P: Perseverence of the saints
Plainly taught in Scripture
You say the Word does not teach perseverance (I interpret preservation), see these verses. Rom 8 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Continue reading to Romans 9 please
I understand that we can't and will not understand the work of our Father, but asking to believe that we are His 'puppets' sounds just too crazy for me.
The Bible says that He loves everyone, therefore He would want/choose everyone.
From my perspective (which can be wrong) I just can't think of God doing all these great works, even sending His holy son to suffer and die, for people that He already selected to be with him. It just makes no sense. There would be no need for human experience, there would be only heaven already.
God does not need to play a game like that (in my opinion) to show us that He is Sovereign. God does not need to show off, post on Facebook that He Can and will only choose this or that because He is God.
He is God. Was and will be forever. He is powerful, loving, truthful, faithful and no matter what we do or think nothing will change his Sovereign because that is who He is: God!
lol...
And, because He is God He can do whatever, He could even destroy the whole humanity already and He chose not to, but to save whoever listen to Him.
Yes we are sinners, yes we were already dead, so please, why would God again, waste His Almighty time with us, choose to save only few and not all, or to destroy us all?
I can't understand the mind of my Creator and I'm OK with that because I trust Him. But I can't accept a preaching that controverts the goodness, faithfulness, and love for the world, of my Father in Heaven.
Talita Telles Colombini
The idea is not that he chooses who already pre-chose him.
The idea is, he rigged up the whole thing before he started time, before the first second passed. You don't have a choice. He wrote your character in the story as one who gets saved or one who didn't. Technically, it's already done.
Like a story you may write; you have a hero and an antagonist and some supporting characters. The antagonist can't say to you "why am I a bad guy? That's not fair". Well... Yes. It is. It's your story. You'll do what you please.
But the antagonist can't say that because you didn't write him to. Every character in a story makes choices but their choices have already been made by the author to get a story across.
Humans do this all the time. That's why some people are better than others. They're the heavy hitting heroes of this world. Most people are background characters that don't do much. Only few can be superman and iron man and etc. I see no difference when God is referred to as the author and finisher of our faith.
You write stories where the people in them make choices and you don't think you're a monster.
Why can't God?
Geoff Dick Thank you so much for your response! =)
I find everything that you said very interesting and I can almost agree with you, only if we didn't have the Bible.
Regardless of your opinion or your own understandings, do you have any reference from Scriptures where you can prove what you just said?
You see, with God, it is not simply what we "think", it is really black and white.
In order for us to understand more of His character, we must study from His Word, right? Do you agree with me on that one?
So... His Word says that He is JUST.
This is ALL OVER SCRIPTURES.
Now you asked the question:
"You write stories where the people in them make choices and you don't think you're a monster.
Why can't God?"
Well... because then God would be UNJUST.
Or do you think it is fair, to act in such way?
I am sorry but to believe that God is using us as puppets, (in the sense of: making some act in unrighteousness and then putting them in hell for those actions that were not even theirs but forced on them do to it, and then sending others to heaven because they were forced to be in the righteous way) it is to believe that God is not very JUST.
And that simply goes totally AGAINST THE WHOLE BIBLE!!!
And don't get me wrong, I understand that also all over the Bible there is God's hands DIRECTING some events and people's decisions, but it is never addressed that we are still not responsible for our own actions.
God MUST interfere now and then, not just because He is in control but also to direct huge events that MUST TAKE PLACE.
Now, regarding our own salvation, it is on US, to BELIEVE AND RECEIVE IT.
(For heaven's sake this is all over the new testament ALONG with the Old testament prophecies regarding the Messiah!)
The fact that God foreknows whosoever will believe in Him and Receive His son, doesn't necessarily mean that He made us do it.
You gotta read the whole book of Romans man, and you will see what I am talking about.
Romans 8: 20,21
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, IN HOPE 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
GOD SAW HOPE IN US.
Keep reading.. keep reading.. I am not done!
lol
Romans 8: 28-30:
28 And we know that all things work together for good TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD, to them who are the called*** according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, HE ALSO did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he ALSO called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
See the order? First God knows who will LOVE HIM (even being put through this mysterious life and some through sufferings) ..
(Go back to the first verse I shared on Romans 8:20,21 -That is why I said to keep on reading... this is all connected)
..so,God besides identifying these people, then God ALSO PREDESTINATE them, to be conformed to the image of His Son, and THEN HE CALLS US...
So that is the HOPE we are talking about, that is why God sent His son, because He had hope foreknowing who would at least bother to know Him a bit better.
So then since we are predestined, then He calls us, so we are then justified and will be glorified, by the blood of the Lamb.
Praise God!
Talita Telles Colombini
Yeah. He's just. The problem is humans believe they know what justice is. Things that you're convinced are not just aren't actually unjust. That's the big problem we have; we don't know what justice is and/or isn't.
See; if God is perfect then there can only be one answer. There cannot be more than one since the perfect answer is the the one, single, best and perfect answer. Perfection demands uniqueness. So whatever answer we do come up with, there can only be one.
Talita Telles Colombini
Okay: so I write an issue for a superman comic for example. And in that comic, some bad guy does something that gets a few people killed. But then me, the author, decides to write superman into the story to save them. So he kills a few bad guys and imprisons the rest.
So those who got killed, those who went to jail and the innocent lives lost... Is that unjust?
Well... No. It's my story. Mine. I'll do what I want with it. The characters in those stories are so far below me that they cannot judge me or stop me. Not even superman can hurt me. I can do whatever I want to those people. They don't define justice. I do.
Geoff Dick
Brother, I really do appreciate your kindness and effort to try and explain to me your point of view.
I still didn't get any support from Scriptures though, and yeah we only know about justice because God Himself has taught us what that is and how to act on that, in order to please Him and be in harmony with our neighbors.
So... that would be now calling God a liar...
hmmm see, I really think that besides making WAY more sense to understand that we do have our free will to some degree, it is also safer to believe in that rather than to go that far and start to get a total messed up character of our Lord.
Nice, it is almost catholic!
It is prophecy being fulfilled for sure, it is amazing to see, false teaching, so blatant! None of those trusting Batchelor are checking him out with the word of God, they are just listening to everything that he is saying as the gospel truth. If the Lord's word didn't say that there would be false teachers in the last days I would say it was unbelievable! Two great verses to protect us believer's, to be diligent to know God's true saving gospel truth in God's word: Jude 1: 3-4, 2 Peter 2: 1-3.
@24:21, Pastor Doug says, "you can't force somebody to love you".
But the Bible COMMANDS all men everywhere to Love God.
This is a command, not a suggestion.
Not only this, but the command comes with a a consequence for failure to do this: if you do not love God, you will perish.
Is this not a type of coercion?
Is this not a kind of 'forced love'?
These issues do not even get brought up in Pastor Doug's sermon; and he must deal with these issues if he is to be consistent.
The more 'insightful' atheist will bring up similar questions; and we, as Christians, must be able to give a defense in light of these types of inquiries.
Escorpion Venenoso Do you think that when God commands something (eg. to love Him), that it implies we have the ability to do so?
I would argue, along with Luther, Calvin, and all the other Reformers (arguing contra Romanism) that imperatives (commands) do *not* imply ones ability to do what is commanded.
What about Jesus' words: "No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him…" (Jn.6:44)?
Is Jesus teaching that we have the ability to "choose" to come to Him? Or, is our Lord restricting fallen man's ability to come to Him (notice the words, "no one *can*…")?
Escorpion Venenoso So, you're not going to answer any of the questions I asked?
You have simply made assertions, with no substantive argumentation to back it up.
Please actually make an argument if you want to respond again.
Escorpion Venenoso So you believe that when God gives a command, it means that we have the ability to obey it.
Thanks for clearing that up and informing everyone that you agree with the Romanists over-and-against the Reformers on this issue.
The Bible teaches that we ought/must/are commanded to choose to believe. It does not teach, however, that fallen man has the ability to make that choice (cf. Jn.6:44); rather, he only chooses to disbelieve, because that's all he can do.
And just how did the Reformers hold to "popish traditions" when they specifically refuted and rebuked Roman Catholic assertions that "ought implies can"?
The Reformers said that "ought does not imply can".
Apparently the Reformers taught contradictory to Rome, on this issue.
And please show me where the Bible says that "We have the choice to obey it"?
Citation, please...
Please define what you mean by 'choice'.
11-1-19
There could never be a video exposing predestination/determinism,
without a swarm of calvinists (or any other type of determinists) in the comments of that video's section.
Any determinist in the comments section that have taken issue with Doug Batchelor, my questions are-- why are you doing so? If (in your
worldview) everything is caused and controlled by the sovereignty of
God, then why are you determinists trying to thwart the "secret" will of God-- by challenging Doug Batchelor on predestination?
God foreordained your statement, yet you had perfect free will to write or not to write it. That's an example of predestination and it's all over the Bible my friend.
Dick Grayson I agree with you. Those who think Jesus didn't die to give ALL of us the opportunity to choose salvation are in great spiritual darkness. We must pray for them. The whole thought process of predestinaton is so ludicrous and unBiblical, not to mention nonsensical, cruel and unfair, that it's hard to imagine why it continues to exist--except that there are those who are distracted by their own selfish and proud thinking. It is a demonic belief to get people to ignore God and believe as though they need not seek Him nor to be obedient Him. It is hard to comprehend how someone so brilliant and apparently close to God like John Calvin could be so in error. But that is why we must read the scriptures for ourselves and ask God to enlighten us. To show us His truth and keep us from being in error. What insanity to think that Jesus didn't die for is all to have opportunity to be saved. The Bible is so clear that we are responsible for our choice--i am reminded of Joshua 24 and how the people had a CHOICE to decide who they would follow. Are we to believe that their choice to serve God was only because they were already going to do that ANYWAY?! Well, what's the point of all of this life then anyway? If a person doesn't know if they are saved then they may as well ignore God and do whatever they want cause of they weren't going to be saved, there's nothing they can do about it. If they ARE saved then there is nothing they can do to lose it. So they can live for satan, rape, pillage, rob, murder, and do all manner of iniquity and it doesn't matter. Man!! What a load of lies. Satan must basque in the evil of this deception. Why did Jesus go out to the people for and speak His words of truth? Why did He try to draw anyone if there wasn't choice. "Go and sin no more" He told the woman accused. WHY? Of it doesn't matter because she was saved anyway. This was a great message, Pasto Doug. Thank you and God bless you. And thank you for the upload whoever uploaded it. God bless you too. 🙏
@@rickhinojosa5455
Show me the word opportunity associated with salvation in The Bible.
You said your reading the scriptures. Show show me this opportunity word that you reading.
Being in Christ you will not be in want/without food or water n needing to swim to higher ground. Outside of Christ it’s down hill not higher ground not a better life but a worse one leading to eternal damnation so another false equivalency there. You can not juxtapose being in Christ safety as being in the safety of men, almost all unquenchable desire in man to save mankind in any situation is a deep under the surface desire to control them. God is not like man. In his presence is fullness of joy, at his right hand pleasures forever more there will be no need or want to get to higher ground. Beneath the ocean floor with Christ is safety, on the mountain top with Christ is still safety.
Wow...
So..... Reading this "Contemporary English Version" side by side with the original Greek is very very different. It's scary HOW different the people that wrote the CEV made Romans 8:29. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God "allowed" anything. Predestined and allowed are two VERY different words with VERY DIFFERENT meanings, and the Greek most definitely says "predestined".
Super scary interpretation of the scripture.
InhumaneJEKyll,
The Scriptures is not Scary if God will reveal to you
the Truth....
Calvinism is indeed wrong and I can even say that Calvinism is
an evil doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth
and man-made Lies....
However, The doctrine of 'Election and Predestination' is really Biblical....
God indeed Predestined the Elect before the foundation of the
world to be saved.... and the none-elect to be cast to the lake of fire...
Jesus Christ was indeed sent by the Father for the Elect only.....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
"Whole world"
@@CrashCartHero,
[[ Nowhere in the Greek does it say God "allowed" anything. Predestined and allowed are two VERY different words with VERY DIFFERENT meanings, and the Greek most definitely says "predestined".
]]=> from
your post...
So you believe in predestination....
Only the elect are predestined to be saved...
1 John 2:2 was written for the elect only,
the elect are scattered through out the world, and John was talking to the congregation in Israel, so he means all the
elect through out the world....
The reprobate(none-elect) can never be saved....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo
You want to look up the Greek of 1 John 2:2.
"Whole world" is crystal clear.
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo
Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
John 12:30-32 ESV
"All people"
There’s no such thing as being extra merciful as it relates to God. He is just, and what that parable regarding the vineyard is saying is that not matter the point of contact when u are called don’t think you are more justified or more valuable than those who are called later. It could possibly go for the Jews who considered themselves God’s chosen, well not because I choose you (the ones that did a full days work) n now that salvation as come to the gentile world (the ones called later who would have done an hour work) the reward of salvation, justification n sanctification is the same(same wages) so in essence longevity on the Christian path does not mean u get a crown shiner that new believers, we are all adopted in to family of God and the point of your calling means little the fact that you are called means everything. No such thing as God is being unfair because he’s too fair, God is Just. And there’s no levels to his mercy to say that he was being extra merciful to me because the gospel came to me at a later point that it did another person n to think that after. The fact that man was totally depraved and we are not instantly struck down as we sin is mercy in n of itself. The fact that the wicked is allowed to prosper in earthly ways n continue to live while he carries out his evil deeds without being immediately consumed is God’s mercy. The problem is that we don’t like the idea of predestination because in our prideful n sinful state it doesn’t seem fair to us, and just like the atheist Pastor Doug is playing devils advocate asking what kind of God would do this or that, the kind that is sovereign the kind that does not need my or your permission to do anything, the kind that if it was in his nature to go full on dictator there’s nothing you or I could do about it but thankfully he’s is not, when u say what kind of God would do this or that it’s like u think u can use shaming tactics n language to get God who resides in the heavens and whatever pleases him n works everything to his good n righteous please and that in itself is something for us to rejoice about he is just. But again we don’t want to wrap our minds around predestination because humanly it doesn’t seem fair but Roman’s 8 it is pretty straightforward, in Ephesians 1 it’s pretty straightforward again. And with Esau n Jacob it mean the nations n the individuals themselves, Jacob was in no means innocent or purer than his brother, his brother came in hungry u he did not feed him instead convince him to sell him his birthright n we like beat up on Esau saying we can’t let hunger rule us n I’ve heard many sermons beating up on Esau as if what Jacob did wasn’t even more wrong n more wicked he was not innocent party, he also got his brother’s blessing through ill-means another sinful act but he was elected by God the transformation work just did not begin yet n his sin nature was more dominant in his life, both parents had their favorites of the twins too another dysfunction in the family. Esau became angry as a result of Jacob actions there is no account in scripture that said Esau was just wicked from inception n the total depravity means both were sinful from inception but one was chosen to be the seed of the woman n the other the seed of the serpent. Them the work of transformation begun in Jacob’s as a result of him being chosen n not him just thinking one day that he needs to change.
I wish Doug would go into more detail in Romans 9 particularly verses 16-24. He went into "easy believism" more than Calvinism. There are plenty of people who discuss this. Calvinism does not teach about people being saved even though they have committed to refusing to obey the moral law. Calvinism teaches that the law will be written so thoroughly in the hearts and minds of the elect that it cannot be overridden and are as likely to choose and remain in a course of evil as God Himself. Yet the unelect will continue in life long lawlessness until their time on earth is up.
I am curious as to the potter/clay analogy because clay has no mind of its own. Whilst I am Arminianist in my views, this is an odd chapter unless it is talking of nations such as God choosing Israel as the starting node for the gospel.
This sermon does cover 3 topics rather than dedicated to Calvinism alone which teaches a type of eternal security - that of automatic sanctification. It is a certainty that they will turn from their sin. This is Calvinism. Those and only those who have been chosen by God will automatically receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour because it is written in their hearts and minds to do so. Then they will automatically co-operate with sanctification, because it is written in their hearts and minds to do so.
I'm not saying this is biblically true but that is the position of Calvinism to the best of my knowledge.
It is interesting that Batchelor goes to the very verses that teach against His view, then he twists them to his liking.
Not at all but he studies them n their proper context and also compares them to other verses in Scripture just as we are instructed in the Bible to do. You are accusing him falsely.
People who teach in once saved always saved take a few verses without studying them deeply and in their proper context and then cast out the bulk of the other verses that don’t harmonize with their preconceptions.
@6:25, Bro. Doug asks: "Do we all agree that God knows who's gonna be saved, right now? Does that mean that He chose arbitrarily; or, that He knows what we will choose? Big difference."
First, no Calvinist is saying that 'God chose arbitrarily'. Rather, He chose us, "according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace" (Eph. 1:5-6). This refutes any idea that God chose "arbitrarily". It might not be the answer that men are looking for; but it's the biblical answer, and should be good enough for any Christian.
Second, the question I would ask bro. Doug is, "how does God know what we will choose?".
Has he ever thought about this? Has he done any study in Church History, or, Historical Theology to find out how Christian scholars from past ages have tried to answer this? I can assure you that they talked and wrote about this very topic.
This is a question of Divine Epistemology: how God knows stuff.
Does He learn stuff from His creation…as an Open Theist would claim?
Does He know all things beforehand [that is, 'is He omni-prescient']? And if He does, how does He know all things beforehand?
Does He know all things beforehand because He is omni-observational? That is, does He 'look down the corridors of time, and see all that will happen'?
To affirm this perspective, one would have to admit that their view of Divine Epistemology is that God's knowledge is based upon an Empirical epistemology, which, in turn, would make God's omni-prescience ultimately dependent upon His own creation. This, the Christian should not abide.
The Reformed have always rejected the theological/philosophical assertion that God's knowledge is based upon empiricism, or, empirical means.
Rather, we have always affirmed that God knows all things beforehand *because He has decreed all things beforehand !*
In other words, God's omni-prescience stems from His eternal decree(s).
Any view of Divine Epistemology that diminishes God's independence from His creation (His complete "otherness") is one that diminishes, ultimately, our view of God on-the-whole.
Any view of Divine Epistemology that makes His attribute of omni-prescience dependent upon His creation in any way (as an Empirical Divine Epistemology does!) is diminishing an attribute of God, who is always, only ever, self-dependent.
Hope this promotes discussion. Let me know what you think.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Were you conceived in the womb without your consent?
Were you conceived in sin without your consent? (Ps. 51:5).
Were you born a sinner without your consent?
Were you born at all without your consent?
Are not all who are 'in Adam' deserving of hell? (Rom. 5:12-14).
In other words, human, creaturely "consent" really has nothing at all to do with justice when it comes to being sinners, and how God will deal with them.
*Soli Deo Gloria!*
Ryan Gallmeier Just keep in mind; if his choices are unconditional, you still may not be going anywhere near heaven. And from one Calvinist to another, I will be happy to see Gods will done if you burn or are saved. I will be just as happy as he is to watch you burn forever or be humiliated forever without hell.
Believing now is conditional. Election is unconditional.
Ryan Gallmeier
Therefore just as all men are doomed to sin in Adam, all men are saved in the second Adam.
By your logic, everyone gets saved.
It didn’t begin with Calvin actually. First mistake
He is Seventh Day Adventist ...... Thinks Jesus is Arc Angel Micheal ...!!
God is the creator if he decided to force us to love or stay n abide in him there’s nothing we can do about it. You saying you can’t force someone to love u is looking at God from man’s perspective. He will not force us to love him but don’t say he can’t. And the fact that your heart has changed you see the good in abiding in God, the see the pleasures of the world his only for a season because him electing you from the foundation of the world n then the point of contact which we already established is not the same point for everyone of the elect, the fog is removed from your eyes n now that you have seen the joys of the lord why would u want to leave? What virtuous woman leaves a husband who’s treating her well? And even if she does when the experiences the evil out there at the point of contact she will return when she sees that husband with open arms willing to take her back. Christ is faithful husband that doesn’t react to the actions of the wife. We need to put aside the physical n mental images of the needy Jesus, begging us to come to him n yearning for our love while we flirt with everything else n He’s just there with tears in his eyes n a nail scared hands begging you to stop doing bad things n come, that’s not who Jesus is n he’s is going to crush the wicked ie the unelected whether we like it or not but it is for a witness that God is just n has been merciful to all mankind even the wicked. To say that God look down the corridors of time n see then John Doe would respond positively to the gospel but Jane Doe wouldn’t doesn’t that still mean Jane Doe is destined for damnation, if there’s a possibility that Jane Doe would turn would God know? Can Jane Doe turn n surprise God? That means God would not be all knowing. And with John Doe the spirit keeps pressing n pressing until he responds positively but God knew he would have already which means he was destined to be saved. Again we don’t like the idea of predestination because it doesn’t sound fair in our view but it’s not for our view it’s for God’s glory everything is for his glory. He has chosen a people n loved them before the foundation of the world but that doesn’t go for everyone n we battle with that mentally. But you know what’s also not fair is that we all deserve death, we all were once enemies of God through or sin nature and all of us should be dead but God made him he knew no sin to be sin, the person and work of Christ is why there is even an elect. And the plan of salvation was not a contingency plan it was there before the foundation of the world and things unfolded just the way God planned it. It was not there as a just in case man sins, like an insurance policy, that would be God is not all knowing. He knew how everything would unfold n all of this is for his glory whether we like it or not. We view love through sentiment n that’s why we try to say love is not or can’t be forceful but love means even tho u don’t see it yet I’m acting in your best interests to save you because you don’t have the knowledge enough to understand that yet, what parent sees their child running towards danger n not grab them violently n pull them back? Is that not love? Or because it was gentle n soft n mushy it’s not love? When you send a love one into AA or rehab isn’t that an act of love? They don’t see it yet because of the addiction that is impairing their judgment n ability to chose good for themselves, was that an action of force if they were willing to go? But u acting in their best interest because they are unaware now used force. What parent ask their child how to raise them? As parents you make executive decisions in your child’s life out of love n having their best interests? So tho they may not like school u sent them anyways because they can’t see the benefit now but they will, you don’t allow them to have ice cream n a big bar of candy for breakfast every morning even tho they’d want to? Isn’t that imposing authority n ultimately forcing them to have what you know is healthier? Love can be forceful, especially with God who knows when left to our own devices we will not choose him because of our sin nature.
Sadly it was WILLED by US to be ANCHORED,
My dear Friends,
It appears to me that there is an absolute conflict between the plain understanding of EGW's words and the words of Scripture. This is confirmed by those who teach her teachings and historically the view of the Church leaders over the years. For example, EGW says that all of our sins are under review to determine if believers are "worthy of eternal life." The New Covenant says over and over that the Father says to believers, "your sins and iniquities I will remember no more." Why is Jesus disobeying the Father in this matter and seemingly putting all believers in jeopardy? This to me is irreconcilable conflict. How do I justify believing in two different views which seem to be in direct conflict?
May I suggest two more examples in which I find it difficult to accept? EGW is described officially as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth." Yet she taught and held to the fact that "God showed her" that Jesus was the archangel Michael "whom God raised to equality with Himself." Bible believers say and prove that Jesus was eternally equal with God, Jesus said by the testimony of Himself and others that He was equal with God, and the "I am" of Scripture. Hebrews chapter 1 asks, "to which of the angels did he ever say, 'thou art my Son; this day I have begotten thee.' " She taught this fact for decades as a continuing and authoritative source of truth." I see a direct conflict here in my thinking. Do I have cognitive dissonance, or is there a problem?
EGW taught on at least 5 different occasions 5 different dates for the return of Jesus and the end of the age. The first two are quite interesting. The first date was Oct. 22, 1843. When checking the historical records and newspapers of the time, it appears that Jesus didn't listen to EGW and so He decided not to show up. She then said in essence that "God held his hand over the numbers....as a test of our faith." In other words, "God lied." She then tried to say, "we forgot about the year zero." She affirmed that God showed her this new truth that He would come back on Oct. 22, 1844. Again checking the headlines of the time, it appears Jesus was again not listening to Ellen G White. She then tried to cover up her false prophecy by saying that the reason you didn't see Him was that he returned invisibly and just changed locations in the Sanctuary. I have a problem. The Scripture says:
1. "No man knows the day or the hour..even the Son of Man."
2. At His return, the Scripture says, "Every eye shall see Him, and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced."
3. EGW said that when changing locations in heaven, Jesus entered the Holy of Holies for the "first time", to be at the Father's right hand. The Scripture says that immediately at His ascension (at least 24 times), He went immediately to the Father's right hand. As Stephen was dying, he even gave eye witness testimony that Jesus was at the Father's right hand already.
I have a problem with accepting EGW as being a "continuing and reliable source of truth." In fact Moses said:Deut 18:20-22
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
KJV
Is my imagination running wild here, or is there a problem. Would you be willing to consider these questions . I think that our eternal destiny hangs in the balance, if we have the wrong Lord Jesus Christ.
Your friend, Bob Koivisto www.rethinkingadventism.com
Bob Koivisto One reply to all that you just said, "out of context" Everything you just commented on required absolutely no research on your part did it? It sounds like you made your mind up before gathering all the evidence. Shameful.
Bob Koivisto And second of all, I'm an Adventist and I go by the Bible as my textbook for my life, not necessarily sister White's writings. Even she herself says not to depend upon her literature alone, but recommends scripture above all! So evaluate everything before becoming the executioner. And furthermore, I without a shadow of a doubt believe that the LORD used Ellen White to pull back the curtain of history & eternity and gave us more insight on what took place and what will take place in the near future. The LORD's prophets don't stop with the book of Revelation. Having said that, she never added to the Bible nor took away from it, just expounded more upon it. She basically wrote an inspired Bible commentary.
You're not a friend of any of us. I recently became adventist. I barely knew about Ellen. But i came when the quarterly was teaching about interpreting scripture. So i could care less about what Ellen says. She is a lesser light to the scripture just like the Talmund is to the Tanakh. The bible is clear and I rebuke you!
Read Romans 3 and Ephesians 2. All men are depraved and none seek after God. Men are DEAD in sin. The ONLY way we can come to spiritual life is by God changing our hearts and this is a sovereign act of God alone. Men without the Spirit of God cannot please God and will not submit to God- Romans 8:7-8. There is no "neutral" ground where humans can choose God without being regenerated by the Spirit of God
Thank you for this reply! My brother in law is seventh day Adventist and does not under any of what you said eventhough it is biblical.
Saddens me that this much ignorance could be paraded from the pulpit, and the congregation that doesn't know the difference.
I didn't say that I am a Calvinist, but at the same time am not offended by those words. You claim that you have studied the word's of God and not men. Please tell me what depraved theology are you talking about. 1Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear...What is the gospel that you are preaching and is it taught by the Word of God. Are you arminian or not?
You can argue over calvinism and arminianism all you like. A true believer in the gospel can articulate from the Holy Bible; because the gospel is the same as it was from the beginning! You have tried times to avoid stating your own teaching on salvation. In fact I have studied SDA on my own, and know the answers to, what they teach on salvation. Frankly, it is works righteousness and modern version of pharisees (mystery babylon). Check it out, stop following church traditions as opposed to God
He is confusing belief's in theology. I believe in eternal security, or once saved always saved, but I am not a Calvinists. I don't believe in many of the 5 points of TULIP.... Just because I believe that eternal life is eternal from the point of conversion, doesn't mean I am a Calvinist.
so if u kill someone do u realy think that u still would be saved none will enter heaven without being saved so much for your eternal security
Romans 8 & 9 refute arminian theology. Read Romans 9 and it is like Paul is directly arguing with an arminian! lol. Arminian theology teaches that the ultimate decision for salvation is up to us not God which makes God impotent to the almighty free-will of man.
I think pastor Doug is deliberately misconstruing a lot here to put his message across. Once the Holy Spirit is at work in you the inclination to sin reduces. How can the saving grace be active in your life n u would want to continue to sin as u want without remorse? You are limiting God n that’s not what once saved always saved means it means because u are saved and your heart is changed your sin nature will no longer mess up your salvation because it’s not up to you.
Arminianism was heretical theology from its beginning, check out the history of its roots, and don't be so easy going on accepting it as harmless if you are saying it is the gospel. As I tried to ask you before, what do you say is salvation? From all I've researched, SDA promote a works based salvation. I know that they may say the right things to sound orthodoxy, but after that they don't cling to the truth when they say to maintain salvation you must accomplish their list of do's and don'ts.
Nah fam. I dont know bout all that fancy smancy theology. but hear this. You cant just go on sinning. Paul, several times throughout his letters denouces the wrong ideologies. the ppl was like : " yo Paul we doing all this work we going to heaven". Paul was llike : "nah fam do you even believe? yall tryna boast" and one time ppl were tryna "believe" a phatic belief with no work meet with that belief. So the truth is a little more complex. You are saved by your belief only. But if you killing ppl and not repenting and praying evryday an all that...is you really a believer? Hah... i shut you up ...
@@Xev729 That is you trying to now sum everything up to your list of do's and don't. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the the unpardonable sin. It is offensive to those that try to add to the finished atonement by Jesus Christ, His death, resurrection and ascension>. He is the saviour, and that needs to be understood. Doubt is to turn yourself into some type of pseudo saviour. The foundation of the gospel must take precedence at every turn, or you are have gone back to trusting your own works which only leads to falling short of salvation. Things are at a red alert level, and that is why Jesus Christ came to give the New Covenant of Him being the saviour to those whom believe. The adverse is to stay in a works based salvation in its various shape shifting, and that leads to humanism, that person being a demigod. Foolishness
If God knows you wont believe, you can never believe!!! you are doomed!! Under YOUR false doctrine Doug!! YOU have people doomed in YOUR doctrine!
Nice! I'll add that one to my argument to silence the God haters, thanks!
R L,
Yes, I agree with with you .... But Calvinism is an evil
doctrine....
Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made
Lies.......
For instance the Statement below which is the base of
Calvinism is evil because it contradicts the Character
of God and cannot be supported by the Scriptures....
''God arranges all things by His sovereign counsel, in
such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed
from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify
Him by their destruction.''
Because YOU chose not to believe. There's a difference between foreknowledge and eternal election.
@@hobosekschuel8290 you need to study your Bible. The word "foreknew"
is "loved beforehand", not "knew what you would choose".
The Scriptures are plain and clear
that salvation is "according as He has chosen us". And "according to His mercy, he saved us." Many more irrefutable, impossible to twist Scriptures.
The notion of free will salvation is utterly not to be found in Scripture.
@@Rbl7132Foreknew or proginóskó literally means to 'know beforehand'. So yes, he does know what we will choose beforehand.
The worse analogies. Using a bank deposit security n juxtaposing it to one being elected n abiding is Christ is also disingenuous, if the transformation work of the spirit has changed my world view why would I want to withdraw from Christ? i.e withdrawing my money from the bank when I want to base on the analogy? You see why it’s false equivalency fallacy. This is your life as opposed to your money. And even if we take the back analogy if I decide that I am disciplined enough n I’m letting this deposit stay until 20yrs which would be symbolic to the end of time n coming of Christ for the saints, it the bank/Christ has shown me all the security that it’s pretty safe n anti theft n assured me no one can steal my money/life from the bank/Christ why would I want to withdraw? Would would I not leave my money/life until the the time of its maturity which 20yr/the end of time n receive my reward which is interest on my money for the 20yr/a crown of gold n immortality n to live in the new Jerusalem why would I withdraw? If my deposit was for a specific time. The bank/Christ as assured me I’m 100% safe, why would I then withdraw to go n try another bank or someone else, wouldn’t that be a fool’s errand? And mention of Calvin n Luther etc at the beginning to say there were excellent Bible students but they weren’t perfect in a bid to debunk the doctrine aren’t we all not perfect? Can we not say the same about Sister EG White? Who the church holds in such high esteem calling her writings the lesser light? Was she also not perfect? There is no lesser light there is just the light which is the Bible that testimony of Christ. Her writings support the Bible n made simple complex issues for the believers but is not to be taken for any light. Christ is the light n with EG white’s writings is not a need for any Adventist believer because with much prayer n humility the spirit will lead us in to all truth n bring us the meaning of things we read in the Bible itself. This is just a game with the Baptist of my dad is bigger than your dad or my founding fathers are smarter or more credible than your founding fathers. We need to be careful of what our intentions are, I know thy works said Christ meaning I know what you did n also why u did it. There is a lot of things in this sermon I find disingenuous but we are all here to learn. I don’t claim to have super knowledge but I think there were many oversight n it’s not for to say they were deliberate or not but there were oversights n misconceptions.
Is not the Bible The Word of GOD of prophecy (meaning something foretold predestinated to happen?). It is not possible to speak about something that is going to happen if it was not predestinated from before... and for such things to happen everything has to fall in place with what it is determinated/written. And that means that people will act/react in a certain way for things to take place... correct?. Well it doesn't take much common sense to understand...
Romans 9
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
As He also said...
Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Everything foretold. He will do it and will not change.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Psalm 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.
Isaiah 46
8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
So once again.... " it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy"
predestination is true. this man doesn't know what hes saying
There is no forceful love Pastor Doug? you know that’s not what it means n you are then limiting the transforming power of the spirit. You are elected from before the foundation of the world but you were also born total depraved because of Adam’s federal headship and your connection to him, at the point of contact with the holy spirt your desire for sin is changed because you are in a fallen world perfection is not yet achieved so the work of the spirit in u makes u remorseful when u sin n u cry out to God, understanding that self reliance is not a thing n you of your own strength can not stand. And that analogy of someone throwing u a life jacket but leaving u in the water is a silly n disingenuous one and I’m sure Pastor Doug knows this I’m not Calvinist but I know that’s not what idea of once saved always save is and sin you say Calvinist believe that we have no choice or doing in our saving n nothing is up to us n God is forcefully saving us which is also not the belief either, wouldn’t it be contradictory to say one throws u a life jacket n tells u to try n swim in to paradise hotel, the fact u have to swim in means you are playing a big role in your saving, the life jacket stops you from sinking but your works (you swimming in) is what’s saving you too n that’s work’s righteousness. We want credit that’s our problem. We can’t shake the need to be important n have some say in what happens to us so God saved me but it was I who made the decision to answer his saving call so I deserve so credit for being smart enough to respond to the call while my neighbor over there wasn’t as intelligent enough to respond? Is that what we’re saying? His election then the point of contact from the sweet Holy Spirit changes our hearts n changes our view of sin, we get rewired so now we are very aware of our sins. Here an example of our appetite to break rules, you’ll be walking through a park pass a dozen benches never had the thought of sitting or touching one until u see one with the sign “don’t touch, wet paint” now all of a sudden u want to find out if it’s truly wet but the sign is there n it says it’s wet but that’s not enough for you that bench is enticing as ever now cuz some is telling u u can’t touch it. What the spirit work would do now is help u resist than urge, if u do end up touching it still u are overcome with grief over your actions n repent of them. That’s not the same for sinner the only grief they feel is when consequences come to bite them directly after their actions, if they get away scratched free it’s on to the next adventure.
I’m sorry Doug I appreciate most of your sermons but on this topic you are gravely incorrect. Man is incapable of choosing God as seen in Romans 3:11-12 and therefore God is the one that chooses us. We cannot choose God because we are spiritual dead as explained in Ephesians 2 and so we can’t do do anything about it. It is entirely on God’s grace not on how much we try and our faith to believe is given by God as seen in Ephesians 2:8-9. There’s a lot more but for the sake of this comment I’m gonna leave as it is for now.
Doug, Your kattered around a denomination,
Strawman arguments
No such thing as free will. we have choices not free will. Those choices have costs or rewards. Jesus did God's will 99% of the time, the 1% was when God gave him the authority to give his life and then to receive it back through resurrection in order that Jesus truly gave it of his own free will. ALL ELSE IN THE HEAVENS AND EARTH ARE SUBJECT TO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.
Prove it scripturally. Pray before you read as well. Ask the holy spirit to guide you to truth.
Consider that you could be wrong and go humbly to God in prayer about the truth. You are not God. Accept that you know nothing and that there is always more.
Free will is taught no where in the bible ... Yes we do have Choice.. but what ever choice we make was Made by God .... Everything was made by God. Free will is a Man Made Concept!
Yes. I absolutely believe that.
I wrestle with these confusions all my life.
No matter how preachers and apologists try to explain this, the whole concept makes absolutely no sense.
God is the creator of all. He chose to create man with all its flaws. Man is not the creator. God is. God decided to create his plan, not man or Satan.
The question is: Where all these bad things come from?
The fact that God foreknew everything makes it even worst.
I have 3 theories:
1. Either God never says thee things
2. They may have a different meaning
3. Some authors write this stuff in the bible.
Can someone explain Romans 9-11?
Choose ye this day whom you will serve,, Deut 24:15
If we have a God given choice then we have the ability (free will) to choose. The will of God is all powerful so ultimately it will be done. The wicked do not have to be wicked...they choose to be. God is Righteous, and doesn’t pick at random some of the wicked (before salvation we are all wicked) to be saved and others lost.
we cant make the bible fit our little boxes-we must accept the truth told-Jesus was chosen to die before foundation of earth so was the elect chosen and names written in book of life-all was predetermined and predestined.he cant be a true apologetic and twist scriptures.
so many errors.... but what should we expect from a molinist ?
lots of 'stories' and lots of concepts that are defined without biblical references
"the fact that Jesuitism places FREE WILL at the summit" admits Edgar Quinet,"had the result that its doctrines harmonized with contemporary strivings after freedom...Luther and Calvin had DENIED the freedom of the will;Loyola's disciples,pressing through this breach in their opponents'(Jansenists) defences,won over modern men precisely because of this feeling of freedom pg.87" Rene Fulop-Miller(Power and Secret of the Jesuits )
"the most important point in this system of 'Molinism' was the ASSUMPTION that man,is through his will,enabled constantly to resist Grace,so THAT IT DEPENDS ON him WHETHER IT IS EFFECTIVE OR NOT pg.97"
God made us with brains and he wants us to reason. As it says in His Word (Isaiah 1:18). Saying man does not have free will is not reasonable. You are making choices every day. If you choose to sin, was it God's choice for you to sin? Are you saying that God chooses those that will be lost, then burns them for something that HE chose? That is the definition of evil. That is not the character of God.
Doug, you and like everyone else are Arminians, freewill you love and that's the nature of man because he loves Self!!!!! What you are teaching isn't anything new, actually sounds boring.
Yes, if it were not for God, no one would love him , no one would seek after him, you claim to know the scriptures, but for some reason you do not know the true nature of man, you must think people are not that bad, I tell you the truth men love sin more then they love God, if you do not believe that your lost for you are calling God a lair.
The pastor uses human logic and departs from clear biblical teaching. I am not one to label myself either Calvinist or Arminian, but I see logical fallacies in this message. Paul, by the way, did not use poetical language. He, as a lawyer, used legal language. This subject is so deep that one should not pit one viewpoint against the other. The pastor mocks Calvinists somewhat. By the way, HE believes in the year 1844 doctrine of the 7th Day Adventists! Where in Scripture is this?
unfortunately that is not true. in 1844, there was no such doctrine. 1000's of text in the bible do not support all this claims. let bible speak for himself and not let speculate, please.
No, it's a Biblical doctrine. It's from the 2300 day prophecy. Daniel 8.
Actually the bible was write to an ancient people, a long time ago we are to learn from them, well that is what Jesus said to us in John 17 the end of the chapter if you look it up, He said "that they would believe by their(apostles) words", God also says we have a great cloud of witnesses who were before us, we come to the knowledge of God by the witness of others,(people of long ago) things they did and said , not by what you do or say, we only come to faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit when the Gospel of Jesus Christ is spoken about, there are very few places where the people in the future of the Apostles are spoken about, the bible is their testimony, not my,not yours! Theirs,(period) Can we learn from them absolutely, but if the Holy Spirit doesn't teach you the basic truths how can He trust you with greater things.
this dude preaches that hell is not eternal.. so why should we believe anything that he says?
Doug, you don t sound convincing. I would rather listen to Erasmas on freewill, who actually gives a good challenge in this debate. Your argument is very weak and sloppy!!!
He has not given us an accurate definition of Calvinism but rather something of a Billy Gram who is half and half or what you would call an " Cal-minian" He has a Mix of Calvinism and Arminianism and what confussion!!!!!!
@6:37, Bro. Doug says: "Part 3: Limited Atonement. Jesus died only to redeem those who are pre-chosen, or, 'the elect'."
I wonder if bro. Doug has actually thought through his theological perspective on the issue of the atonement. If he has, then certainly he would be able to answer some basic questions concerning it.
Here are some questions I would ask bro. Doug:
1) Does the atoning work of Christ actually save sinners, or, merely potentially do so…but they have to add something (i.e. faith) in order to make His work efficacious for them?
2) If Jesus atoned for the sins of every single individual human begin without exception, then for what reason will any end up being judged and destroyed in the lake of fire?
3) Are those who are destroyed in the lake of fire destroyed for unbelief alone, or, all of their sins (cf. Rev. 21:8 for a list of sins for which the wicked will be destroyed)?
4) If they are destroyed for unbelief alone, is unbelief not a sin?
5) If unbelief is not a sin, then why are the wicked destroyed in the lake of fire for it?
6) If unbelief is a sin, then didn't Jesus atone for this one as well as all the other sins?
You see, at some point bro. Doug must limit the atonement. His own theology demands it.
He must limit it by saying:
1) Christ's atoning work did not atone for the sin of unbelief ; therefore, Christ atoned for the majority of men's sins, but not all sins (i.e. unbelief); or,
2) Christ's atoning work needs something added to it (i.e. faith) in order to make it efficacious; or,
3) Unbelief is not a sin, therefore, Christ did not atone for it (because it's not a sin, you see).
Discussion welcome.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Hebrews 4:2 KJV - For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Jonathan makes an interesting point. The Bible teaches that faith is needed. Any rebuttal from you, Ryan?