Old Steam Powered Machine Shop 61 Horizontal Boring Mill Work
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- This channel is concerned with work in a shop that I put together to demonstrate a typical small job machine shop of 1925 operating on steam power. most of the leather belts are over 100 years old and so is the technology. This video is of boring and sleeving a 1920 "hit & miss" gasoline powered engine cylinder, a typical job that would have been done. This Horizontal Boring mill is about 1940 vintage and one of the machines not steam powered in the shop....yet. Thanks for watching.
Doesn't your HBM have stops under the table you can adjust so it automatically kicks out at depth? I would also suggest rather than chasing after the old bore location why not indicate it so that the bore is perpindicular and centered to the crank? What brand of hone was that? Looked like a nice made one.Sunnen of some model?
Hi Brian: Good chance the crank isn't where it should be either if it's been re-poured. My mill doesn't have automatic anything. The hone is a Sunnen AN111, it will get out to 6 1/2" with extensions....Dave
How to make a 38 minute video seem like 5 minutes ! Thanks again David .
The seem problem over here
Always enjoy watching your projects David and getting to see your incredible shop. Thank-you my friend leaves me smiling after each episode ;)
Hi Dave, Not many weeks away from being a Florida Snowbird again . You guys that can afford it are lucky as the USA is big enough place to be able to do this, find a warmer place for winter not like us poor devils in England that have to endure the cold ,wet, damp winter months until spring time .Get your jobs done ,winterize the shop and head south . Wishing you a safe journey .
Thanks David 👍 I always enjoy your videos.
Amen to that brother!
38 minutes 48 seconds of pure joy. 👏🏻👍
Also....LOL...I love your exposed and flapping belts...a free society is a dangerous society. I hate Nanneys.....Call it evolution of caution.......
I been with you since day one of your channel, it's really taken off and congrats . Steam rules.
Have a good Winter Dave ;-)
After an eventfull week its good to end the work with a nice video.
Thank you David for this nice work
of art.
Greetings from Friesland
Love that intro.😂
Thanks Dave, another excellent video. As much as I love seeing the steam powered workshop in action is also very interesting to see some of your other machines earning their keep so please keep these coming. Cheers, Alan.
Brings back a lot of memories from my younger days as an old time tool & die maker. I've turned more things on an old South Bend lathe than I can remember.
I've been turning things on this one since I was about 8 years old and it sure had a lot of use before my time....Dave
Brilliant video, pardon my ignorance but what is the purpose of that curved slit in the wall of the piston?
I'm only guessing, a lubrication channel.
From the looks of it, oil is dripped in from a port on the top of the cylinder to lube the piston and rings, the groove picks some oil up and feeds oil to the wristpin.
I can't believe it's time for you top head south again. Time has flown by this season. Enjoy your time down south, stay well, and all of your viewers will be waiting for your return. I love the way the hand grips on that machine are examples of industrial art. I did notice a couple of them are not there. Perhaps when you return, you could make replicas, and install them on the borer.
What a stark contrast in engine technologies, the hit and miss to the 396. Thanks for sharing David, I really enjoy your videos. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Hello again Dave. Once more you have excelled yourself in Engineering know how.,Excellent workmanship as allways.Keep `em coming Dave. Best regards from Uk,,
As always, I love your content. Just a question and not questioning your technics, are the head bolt mounting points not a reliable datum? I’m only asking because I just acquired my grandfathers old hit or miss saw rig that has set up in the pasture the last 54 years. I plan on it running before they close my casket, just trying to get my facts straight. Thank you for all your videos!
Hi Ed, You might be trying to make it a little more complicated than it is. ...Dave
I don't recognize most of what you show, but a set of chevy big block heads, I recognize, lol.
I really enjoy seeing you at work with those old machines and helping to bring old engines and machines back to life.
I believe you have a lot of experience with old British motorcycles, I'd love to hear more about them. I don't expect you have any film footage or video around but do you have any photo's ? Maybe you could put together a slideshow with voice over some time, I'd be very interested in that !
Ian, Actually Mike Waller is the British bike man (he was a big help with moving the Richards shop engine and planer into the shop, see earlier videos) His channel is Mike Waller Britanic motorcycles. ua-cam.com/channels/qKbu57J6dkIEj99BE2Typw.html I just do a little machine work for him now and then.....Dave
we are going to miss you dave. enjoy the sunshine and warm weather, have a great holiday season and get back soon.
Welcome back Dave, been missing the steam show. Been about a month and I figured you were in FL already.
Great job on the hit-n-miss sleeve.
396 was a favorite of mine, along with the 348/409 series.
Thanks for sharing
really interesting, and learning something every time ,thanks .
Great video man. Would love to watch more of your modern shop works
Dave, To get rid of chatter, clamp a couple of C-clamps with V blocks here and there on the boring bar. The loose tightening pin on the clamp will help dampen the vibrations. Love your videos.
have to try that...Dave
As a fellow machinist I always enjoy your videos. I operate a machine shop where I mainly restore vintage engines. I installed a couple Melling sleeves into a WW2 Chrysler flathead this week and use the same average measurement method as yourself. Enjoy your winter in Florida.
Even the piston is smiling! Thanks Dave!
Boy howdy, I wish you could just move it all to Missouri. The weather is terrible all the time, so you wouldnt have to snowbird at all.
After many years as a toolmaker, the one thing I still have trouble getting across to managers is that I spend most of my time setting up. The actual machining is only a portion of my time.
I always enjoy watching your videos and I learned a lot even though I'm not a machenist you're never to old gain all the knowledge I can, keep up the good work I know you enjoy and have a great winter.
Love your channel and seeing all the old iron being put back in service. Found it a couple of months ago and have just caught up with all the videos. I know your show is about machining but a couple of minutes on how you prep and paint your restoration jobs would probably be interesting to more than a few of us.
Hi Dave. Going back and forth 10 times to bump it in - how long did that take? Sounds like it took a good chunk of the morning.
I enjoy all your videos and would like to also see more of your modern shop automotive projects
i always love a good HBM video. my favorite machine tool. if i had a chatter problem with a long line boring shaft like that. i would try wrapping a thick piece of rubber around the shaft with some hose clamps. probably would cure it 100% by itself but i think it might help a lot. thanks for sharing. i like your channel.
Gonna be a long winter with your videos. Enjoy the warm weather!
How often were brand new steam engines bought for machine shop's like yours back in the day?
Because unless it was at a foundry, I can't imagine it was a typical event to buy a new steam engine.
That's looks like a 1910 to 1920's vintage G&L horizontal boring mill.
Interesting video. You make it look so easy. Perhaps your years of experience is showing.
Hi Dave, great video, I was wondering when you were getting the bore inline that a dial indicator was not used?...forge ahead.
Dave I love your channel !! Have a good winter in Fl . Mark
i always indicate stuff like this basing on the crankshaft. Put a bar into the crankshaft bearings, make align this with the way of the machine, then of course shim the foot until the machine is tilted to match the bore with the crank the best way possible.
Figured you would be in Florida by now.
Nice on the Hit & Miss Dave.
Can you wrap a bike inner-tube around a section of the boring bar like you would a brake drum to stop it from chattering when machining? This soaks up the ringing vibrations. I know you've done a brake drum before.
I try to configure the tool ,feed,depth and speed so that it doesn't chatter in the first place if possible.....Dave
Great video
So you cut a diameter, measure, then use the dial gauge to adjust the boring tool?
Just curious , do you have any problem obtaining rings , or do you make your own ?
The last two sets I've made. Haven't had any luck with doing business with "ring makers"....Dave
Hey Dave. Is there anything that would prevent you from belting the boring mill to the lineshafting? Pulley sizes would have to be appropriate.
Just time to do it is all....Dave
I see a lot of knowledge which comes from experience at work on all your vids!! I’m watching for the third or fourth time I enjoy them so much!! Just found out you ran a auto machine shop next door, now I think I know where the knowledge comes from!! Thanks Dave! I’m recuperating from Covid in ICU at Des Moines VA hospital reenjoying or vids!!
Thanks Herb, I'm glad you find the channel interesting. Get well soon......Dave
was wondering were the valve guides too far gone to have been knurled?
I just bought a G&L 25rt from a man in Texas to use in my engine machine shop
It does not have a tailstock. Do you know anyone that might have one?
I haven't even seen a G&L 25 for sale lately. I used to see a few loose tailstocks on ebay now and then. Good luck.....Dave
I like that you left the sleeve a little taller than the surface of the block..That way the head gasket will seal well since the block surface probably is not level / flat any more
Sounded like a nice cut on the very first pass. I got a question about the overhead drive belts. Were they always run with that much slack back in the old days? Aren't you losing power with them flapping like that? Or is that the way they are supposed to run?
Belts are like children, don't matter much what the're playin as long as they git home for supper on time...Dave
Thanks David for a neat video. I have one question, not concerning the work done, that was first rate but this concerning your overhead shaft bearings, how often do you have to lube them???
Mr Poke, I give them a small shot of HP gear oil before start up....Dave
As a son of a mechanic who worked 30 years for Cummins and having 40 years of experience myself I confess that I and every good mechanic I know respect and envy guys like you who have the equipment, know how and ethic to do a job right. Mechanics so often are forced to use less than perfect parts that when we do get our hands on stuff you guys supply it's like Christmas. To do a job and wonder if despite your best efforts it may not be up to par is something all good mechanics dread. It steals the joy out of your work. Guys like you give us that joy back. Thank You.
Amazing machinery, a true craftsman.
11 guys from osha disliked your video.
Another good year. I'll miss the shop over winter. It seems like a steam shop would be better in the cold than the summer heat. You were talking about chatter on the long boring bar. Couldn't you build some split lead rings to control that? One machinist I know uses fluid filled dampers from old 2 stroke Detroit Diesels.
Hello Dave. Is it possible to set the engine up by squaring off the face of the engine to the boring bar? Nice paint job on the boring machine. Thank you.
Hi Paul, Thanks, it took me 3 days. I wouldn't trust it on something like that. It certainly would be a good way to get it in the "ball park"...Dave
Lovely work! Enjoy every minute of it. Watching the pulleys and machinery turning. Been hooked on machining since watching Adam Booth. Thanks sir.
Awesome as always. I really enjoyed seeing the 396 heads. I had a 69 Camaro with the 396 in it. Then I got married and sold the car. Probably would've been cheaper to keep the car :o)
The very best 38:48 min on this kind of thing on...UA-cam...Thanks very much David...Have a great winter over in Florida...Best wishes...My friend...Once again Thanks from..Kentucky..!
enjoyed....great discussion/demonstration/build....
So is it off to Florida now? Hope to see some videos from some steam shows and flea markets. Maybe you can visit Adam and Lance and that big fireman while you are down this year. I would say stop by Southern Ohio but after all you are trying to get away from winter. It got down to 11* the other night. We had an inch or so of snow, too. A mite early for that kind of stuff here, Greg.
Nice work again Dave thanks
Hey Dave. I Seem to remember you said your #25 boring mill was the smallest they made. I saw a flatbelt #0 yesterday for sale. Is that smaller?
Are you talking about a Giddings & Lewis make? I know Brown & Sharpe numbered their milling machines #00 and up....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Yes sir. #0 Casted right into the side.
I'm 65 . DeVlieg and Lucas mill operater and set up man here. Good times.
Both great machines Mike, I always thought that the Lucas might take a little getting use to because it seems "left handed".....Dave
Another thing that is BORING, IS THIS VIDEO.
boring is boring...Dave
Nice old-line bore you got there buddy.
Hey, David got a question for you. Would it not be much easier and faster to line up the bore by making a couple cones to put on that boring bar? That way you could seat the cones on either side of the cylinder bore then bolt down the base and it would be lined up with the CL of the boring bar. I have never done this sort of thing and was wondering if that would be a viable solution?
Dave, thank you for another very interesting video! I'm looking forward to your videos from Florida at teh Florida Flywheelers Antique Engine Club. I need to visit their annual Engine & Tractor Swap Meet soon!
Also, if you tap the end of the cutting tool hole/socket in your boring bar with something like 40 TPI, and use a 40 TPI set screw or similar behind the tool, you can easily adjust the tool without a dial indicator. Like a mic, you'll get 0.025-inches of tool "travel" per turn of the screw. You could even engrave/mark indications around the screw to more accurately adjust it to less than 0.025-in.
Really enjoy learning from you. THANKS!
20:46 We can hardly hear what you are saying. If you get one of those remote mikes (even a cheap one) and clip the little microphone to your cap then your voice will be louder than the background machinery. Your creating great content so I am just trying to help here.
Thank you David . I am hobby machinist > your knowledge is priceless.
WOW,first time I ever watched one of videos,Dave WOW,dont u have inside mics,or telescope gauges,dial bore guage even,im a H B M operator,you have a Giddings and Lewis,i have run lucas HBM and Devileig,jig mill 20yrs,exp,u got the job done,NO GET MAD aint the way I would have done it
Comments here are for discussion Mike, How would you do it on the Lucas, remember, there is no cross feed on the head of this machine. Thanks for watching...Dave
Dave,set up the same,indicate face in best I could,pick up centerline swing an indicator in the bore,get my 4"or 2" adjustable boring head in,use an 883 or g2 carbide tip for cast iron,not high speed,rough bore till I had .012 left to finish,take .004 check bore for size,take.004 more,check bore for size,take the last .004 finish cut,u always wanna keep pressure on tool the same on finish cuts,feed saddle in and out W axis,dont keep pressure the same take .0o6 take .005,your shooting dice in a dark room,never know what your tool is cutting 20yrs running a HBM,one time I used a line bore bar,swing a radius into a drilled hole for exhaust hole in bore,yes your right its a steam shop exhibition shop,not a job shop,now im gonna get guys telling me I don't know what im doing SO BE IT,HBM or Devileig Jig Mill the same on both,the last Lucas I ran didn't even have a tail stock on it
Dave, have you ever tried sticking some pieces of lead or copper rolled up pieces of inner tube into the water water jacket opening that are on the face of the block and or wrapping the bloc with long strips of inner tube with lead or copper bars in an effort to reduce chatter. Additionally have you ever tried The only reason I mention this is when machining brake drum or rotors wrapping the drum or rotor with a rubber strap that has lead weights on it seems to reduce/eliminate chatter when machining them on a brake lathe
Good looking G&L mill.
Hi Mr. Richards...
Would a way of lining up an old stationery engine on the horizontal borer be to use the crankshaft bearing supports as reference...?
🇬🇧👍
Glenn: probably would be a good way but I've seen the crank bearings up to 1/8" out of line (high/low) with the cylinder from rebabbiting or lack of production tolerance 100 years ago.....Dave
@@davidrichards5594
It's just that my thinking were that allignment of them working faces would be more important than the casting/frame...
Mind you...I'm an electrician...not a machinist...
You know what your on about more than me with these kinds of stuff...🇬🇧👍
I have a G&L 25T
Like yours
I worked a kearns horizontal borer in the early 70's back in UK doing Admiralty work...…….you guys never heard of a bar mike for setting the tool in a line bar?...…..it looks like a piece of angle with a micrometer head centralised at 90 deg on the end...…...you put the angle part on the bar and the mike spindle end touches the tool......that is what it does.....you can set the tool very accurately.
Hi Ian: I was thinking about making something like that. Another set up I've seen is to have a second hole right beside the tool bit hole that a modified telescoping gauge will fit through with it's handle removed. That might be a better way to measure the bore with the bar in place....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Measuring the bore with a line bar in place was always a pain, but as there was no other way I used a short heavy boring bar to get the bore roughed down to near size then went in with a line bar.....that meant you still had to remove the line bar to measure the bore but usually it was just once to check the final size.
In actual fact, a line bar in my opinion is not all that good, unless the hole or holes are spread apart and a boring bar won't work..... as it is a long springy bar from the chuck to the end support whereas the short heavy boring bar does the same job but without the springiness. Holes that were short in depth....max 4 X diam etc..... or 2 holes not all that far apart I always did with a heavy boring bar.
My dad was an industrial machieneist, passed away now, thanks for letting me know what his craft might have looked like! I enjoy your videos.
My mechanics of solids teacher in engineering school once said, "Engineers aren't boring people, they just get really excited about really boring things."
Great project!
Im glad you have saved and maintain these machines . I love the old shit they have a old machine shop setup at denton farm park in north carolina they also had other steam powered machines lots of hit and mis engines and parts great videos buddy keep them coming
I have found that when you put either tightly rolled rubber bands or using material used to pour babbit which looks and smells like dog doo or taking rope wound from one end ot the other with masking tape to keep stuff on the surface of the boring bar will stop chatter in its tracks. Also the way you sharpen your tools makes a difference. HSS or HSS Co works better than carbide. Experience really makes the difference with old machinery. Keep on fixing the old engines too.
Agreed....Dave
Just trying to help a fellow machinist. Good day fella.
Dave
Thanks again for taking the time to film and share. I've been with you on here since the first video and I always look forward to the next vid. Please share a couple from Florida just to keep us all satisfied. Have a great winter.
I'm going to be in Florida the 1st half of January and I've got a few flat belt pulleys and some power hacksaw blades that you're welcome to have if we can meet up. These are the pulleys we talked about a couple years ago and I'm still hanging on to them for you. Let me know if you want them.
Hi Mark, where will you be?
@@davidrichards5594 we'll be in Destin but gas is cheap and we've got lots of time so we can meet whenever you want.
Very very good work. Thank you.
In the setup procedure for the boring of the cylinder, how did you check for perpendicularity of the crankshaft to the boring bar?
JIM
JIM: I didn't. Dave
AH,Hahahahahahaaa, oh well.
I enjoyed the video anyway!
JIM
Enjoy your shows immensely and thank you for sharing your time, knowledge and experience with us!
Just wondering why you wouldn"t put a magnetic base on the table ways, (boring for the sleeve) set to zero at the proper depth so you could hit the exact same depth mark every time?
Scotty, I don't know why I don't. It would be the right way to do it. Next one I will....Dave
@@davidrichards5594 Your results obviously speak for themselves, so I wasn't trying to be negative, just thought you had a better way, ( a secret) I was trying to learn. Thanks for the videos, and a chance to see Old Iron in action!
GREAT VID ,WE CAN REPAIR REVAMP ANYTHING IF WE TRY,IF WORLD REPAIRED MORE WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF NOW THANKS.
Where do you find these old machines? I was looking online and didn't happen to see any.
Another awesome video. I would really like to see more projects from the new shop too. I haven’t ground valve seats since high school in the late 80’s. Great stuff
Great work. Thanks
Really love the intro music you are using. What is the name ??? Thanks
Really interesting and excellent video...enjoy watching you!
dave you should repair kieth ruckers locomotive cylinders and pistons for steam
High Dave! Great job cleaning and painting the boring mill!! Have a safe trip to Florida. Hope to see you in the spring!
Shows how much goes into such a job: Time, equipment, and shop space. I hope your customers appreciate you. Thanks for sharing.
Oh, and a little bit of know-how. That too!
Dave nice work how are the rings lubricated ?
Hi Chris: Hit & Miss engines have drip lubricators mounted on the rear of the cylinder with an oil hole running into the cylinder above the piston. It drips on the skirt of the piston as it is running. The "smile" shaped groove in the piston is supposed to help distribute the oil around it. You can see the pipe threaded hole in one of the shots....Dave
Thanks for the explanation Dave
Never cold in your shop 😁