Designing the Tunnel for Driving a Formula Car UPSIDE DOWN
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 лис 2023
- 💡 Go to brilliant.org/DRIVER61 to get a 30-day free trial + the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual subscription!
🔧 Motorsport Students & Professionals - I need your help!
If you’re working in motorsport, used to or are studying to, could you please drop me your email address? I’m looking to talk to as many people as possible about careers in motorsport.
If you can help, drop your details here, I’d love to chat for 10 mins:
👉forms.gle/txSdDxZTzL1v2Bvc7👈
📧 If you're interested in working on this project with us, contact: projectinversion@driver61.com
📹 All source footage can be found here 👉 bit.ly/3ST8IlA
I’m going too drive a formula car upside down in a tunnel, for 5 seconds through downforce alone!
We’ve designed the car, so our next mission was to find somewhere to complete this groundbreaking stunt. But, where on earth do you do that?
We thought ‘surely there’s a tunnel somewhere in the world that could be hired for this insane challenge?’ Well, this was WAY harder than we thought.
So, let me explain the surprising reason why we actually ended up designing a tunnel OF OUR OWN!
Now, my first port of call was to find someone who knew LOADS about tunnels. So this is Andy Willis.A senior project manager in civil engineering and he’s in charge of our tunnel for Project Inversion. I set him off with the job of finding the right tunnel a couple of years ago, and it was difficult to say the least - this is how we developed a bespoke tunnel in order to make this incredible challenge possible.
➤Follow Driver61 on:
➤ Instagram- @official_driver61 - bit.ly/D61Insta
➤TikTok - @official_driver61 - bit.ly/D61TikTok
➤ Follow Scott on:
➤ Twitter - / scottkmansell
➤ Instagram - @official_driver61 - bit.ly/D61Insta
#F1UpsideDown #ProjectInversion #F1 - Авто та транспорт
Just make sure you seal any manhole covers on it before you drive over them!
I was just checking to see if anyone had said this before posting :D
I had to laugh at the coincidence of a video about racing being released today containing the sentence "race tracks don't deform"
I was about to make the same comment. Good thing I've checked first 😂
Haha relevant burn!
They always forget to remove stray ceiling lamps when I want to go and race the local parking garage ceilings.
He really did just explain the engineering behind making sure he doesn't get one shot in a crash. Not only did he play it off so well, he stayed in character while casually talking about his hypothetical demise lmaoo what a legend
What's your point here? Protecting the human life involved to the highest degree possible is basic engineering.
@@SmoothBaracuda🤓
@@SmoothBaracudaAt least you seem to be technical capable.
legend? he's ruining the environment to prove that a formula car can drive upside down which we already know it can (in theory), he is literally ruining the environment for views.. 🤮🤮
This is known as the myth that got away cause mythbusters wanted but couldnt. Im so impressed how comitted you guys are. This is awesome.
I mean, its not a "myth" though. Its 100% legit and backed by science. Its just not easy to actually do (as this video shows).
The downforce is 100% legit, the fact that you can drive upside down because such downforce might be magically constant and wheels won't slip is the myth part, that is not confirmed at all.
They should get in touch with Adam Savage! I think he'd love this.
It would be myth busted if they had done it. It really cannot be done. For a bunch of reasons. You cannot simply flip a car upside down just because it has a tiny little bit more downforce than its own weight. As we see here... To FORCE this to work, they have to change the car, the engine, the tunnel, and the surface. So in the end, you have changed every criteria and you are just not driving the same car upside down.
@@GeomancerHT Here's the fun part conceptually. If you turn a car that has enough downforce to push it into the ground twice or even 3x its own weight, do you know what you have developed once you turn it upside down? You've developed lift not downforce, and that effectively makes is hybrid between a car and a plane.
When this is done, don’t take the structure apart, cuz this really is a giant step for science. Gotta leave it there as an art piece celebrating this project.
I just had to laugh when Scott said because of the concrete sleepers they'll leave no damage... as a commercial GC superintendent, I can promise there will be plenty of damage done while building this structure. The key is making sure you've got the budget to restore the area when you tear it down at the end of this project.
I’m not an expert like you, but when I heard him say that their structure won’t leave damage my first though was “they must be demented”.
@@mercoid Better place the whole thing on a train of barges and just cope with a bit of movement here and there.
Who is Will?. His Name is Scott.
Well minimal damaged would be a better phrase
That's a bit of an oof on my part... watching too many different videos lately haha@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE
This is just too cool. This video was way too short, I could easily watch an hour long deep dive into the making of the track and still want more 😁
hell yeah
There are several other parts on this project
@@MikeOnTrack I know I've seen them all. Wish the one on the car design was an hour long too. 😆
I know, this project has me glued. So much lore about this 'fact' and now we have someone suiting up to show how it's done.
there's an hour long podcast on the car build @@chrisoconnell8432
Spoke to McMurtry last year at Silverstone, they said Travis Pastrana is already begging for a Spierling to do donuts on the ceiling of a multi storey carpark
Antigravitymkhana
No one cares
@@adamhousden6349 I do
@adamhousden6349 i do
@@adamhousden6349I do stop trying to be edgy
This project it absolutely nuts, and I'm so glad you're showing us the progression.
I for one, am watching this with great excitement and am loving what I'm learning.
This has to be one of the coolest projects an automotive UA-camr has ever taken on
I love these engineering related videos, would never imagine all the different problems that go into building this.
I am so incredibly excited about this. I can't wait to see you guys pull this off!!
I’m hoping to see a air-bag deployment system for if the car experiences a problem and falls from the ceiling upside down. Something to cusion that blow.
I think a roll cage with material that would slide easy like nylon will be implemented.
@@kmyerslp85the car will have an F1 style halo, he said that in one of the first videos
Most effective way would be having padding over as much of the floor as possible already as that should have more cushioning than any airbag could do
I hope they simulate the crap of this and do some small scale models first because at full speed there is no airbag saving you from the crash and the fall... you better have some rockets ready for when the wheels slip a microsecond because that's all to kill the downforce and bye bye.
@connor1586 I think that would cause the car to dig in and start to tumble - that twisting motion would probably injure more than a fall from 7.5m in the air and then sliding
Plus, the aero is still going to be reducing the verricle speed that the car hits the ground at
This is one of the best things on UA-cam. It fills the stem need created by bloodhound delays in a really accessible way - awesome!
Thanks for all the content over the years, mate. It was nice knowing you!
I really hope this hole project comes off, the video series so far is fantastic and the engineering and explanations are spot on 👌🏼
I love your stuff mate but this is a whole new level of insane. Can’t wait to see where it goes!
Absolutely love this project, thank you for sharing it
I'm studying Motorsports Engineering @ OBU had a lecture from Willem Toet about this a couple days back!!! I'm excited to see the outcome
The amount of pure science-ing this stunt took is absolutely lovely. Makes me giddy. 🎉🎉🎉
You are a legend already. But this is going into the BOOKS.
Wow. What a project. A showcase for ingenuity, engineering, risk management and bravery.
Hey guys first of all mad respect and support to your project.I just had a brainstorm about the engine that what if you make the engine in such a way that it stays upright at all times like those hubs on wheel covers that stay upright even when the wheel spins. i know its a long shot and i maybe wrong completely but it was just a random idea.
Got a drinking game for everyone, take a shot every time Scott says "And that's a really important point!"
I gave up on Formula 1 in the late 90's as it was just a two hour precession
This is amazing!!!!
Saw a video from Driver61
I love this dive into just how non-trivial the whole idea is.
So many things to think about! thanks for sharing everything along the way, it's really interesting!
I think 4 wheel steering may help with minimizing the change in ride height while moving up the side
Absolutely
Thats a good idea, i doubt the advantage would offset the added weight though..
This is the most ambitious project I've ever seen. I'm so pleased Scott asked "But what if we actually make it happen"
Being in the constructional industries for much of my working life, I so enjoyed working with structural and civil engineers; such bright people.
Holy shit, I can’t believe you’re actually going to do this! I always just follow this channel for cool racing tips and info, but this is next fucking level man. I can’t wait to see it
I am so stoked for this stunt and my fav F1 yt guy driving the car is such icing on the cake!!
You have total respect and support from me 🌞
To help with thermal movement you could heat the whole thing similar to a heated driveway to keep it a consistent temperature. Not sure if that’s possible with the budget though
I'm expecting Colin Furze to try this in tunnel built of plywood and pallets, riding a step-thru moped powered by a few thousand fireworks, with downforce wings made from cut up oil drums.
So cool!!! I wish you best of luck!! 🤜🤛. Heck. I’ll even pray for your success as well
This is completely nuts, and utterly pointless. Love it!
As the wood be runner if PERI branch and a longtime subscriber of this channel. The very first video I was like. I could do that with Vario-kit easy as. Dont work for PERI anymore but still in Temp works design. Glad to see some good kit being used for the tunnel. Best of luck gents, don't add any manhole covers 😂
One of the few things nobody has done yet. For sure you're going to pull this off!
RB would love to sponsor this. Actually this is a sponsor heaven. You shouldn't have much issues with the budget.
Redbull, give this man some money.
Don't know what pressure a sponsorship from RB would add, in terms of deadlines, risks to safety etc. There may be two sides to those coins.
@@MeriaDuck lol no
Bro is so smooth with his Ad transitions
Just a heads up that currently the link for the form is not working. Great video and I'm excited to see this project come to life!
This is an idea I was working on back in the early '90s when I was an undergrad. I probably still have my notes and design specs tucked away in storage. Never had the money to pursue the idea beyond the design stage though.
Take note of what happend in Vagas with the sainz
Your plywood might have forced pulling it out of how it was put onto the structure. Definitely test it as a flat service first try to get max down force and then also turn and stop over joins.
It's the ground effect suction that caused the issue at Vegas. He can just use conventional aero like those on F1 cars from the mid 80s until 2021. Cheaper to build too
@@chumleyk Harder to get the low speed downforce at 2x mass they're looking for without ground effect and without a ground effect fan. Just going for an F1 fan car inspired design would make this all so much easier. And there is a road car coming to market with 2 ton of static fan downforce, in a 1 ton vehicle. All the McMurtry Speirling needs is padded forklift to place it on the ceiling. Driver could strap in before rolled over as well.
@@chumleykthere's always been some under body downforce on F1 cars.
There was an accident at Monaco from an incorrectly welded manhole cover sometime in the last twenty years.
I can't quite remember when and I can't be bothered to look it up
Amazing keep it up!
the link in the description for motorsport careers is unfortunately not working
I can't believe a youtuber is Making this dream project come true
This project is outrageous, you are a mad man 😂😂😂😂
This is such an exciting event to look forward to. So much has been done to prepare for it. And it seems to be taken very seriously too, so it's highly unlikely to be cancelled. The only question is will it actually go to plan? I have to wonder if everybody involved, including the people who normally do serious stuff, are having fun designing this.
Wood i porous so you want constant humidity and consistent temperatures. I would recommend someplace in the south where the days and nights are relatively the same and use a buttload of halogen lamps to keep the surface warm at night.
I've done it for paint jobs on yachts many times.
Best project ever to happen on youtube.
This is such an amazing project I can't wait to see more of it!!
Also, is it just me or does the link in the description not work?
yep, not working for me either
This look like an april fools joke.
Copy the link and paste it into your search bar. Worked for me.
Because the 👈 emoji is getting interpreted as part of the link. Just delete the 👈.
Ok, that transition into the sponcer segment was as smooth as the furture tunnel surface.
Nice to know I am not the only one that thinks about making one of those
Two questions:
1. Could you build the tunnel part underground, in an open trench, only using the constructed tunnel for the upside down bit? Would be cheaper.
2. Could you bend the tunnel during acceleration and deceleration phases to make use of inertia to help the car stick to the walls?
My concern of penetration and a sudden stop has been addressed. Thank you. I still have a concern about the opposing loads. The ground effect your talking can pull not only 10lb covers off a F1 track but the casing for that cover. Do you plan on gluing each layer of ply together and what fasteners to join them? Love this project. Just trying to input the non swiss cheese model.
Engineered wood and other natural products, from simple laminated joists/beams to modern plywoods and OSB and maby even more complex/ modern products (resin inpregnated natural fiber composites like Paperstone, some engineered or 'woven' bamboos, and so on) are amazing... and very ecologically friendly, from both an energy efficiency and carbon capture/ emission reduction standpoint. (Cost, too!)
I'm not suprised at all that natural materials were chosen for the running surface. I was suprised (pleasantly) by some of the other design elements, though.
This is an exciting, ambitious project... Cheers!
Are you going to publish cost estimates for building the "tunnel"?
I’d love to know what the total cost ends up being, I’d imagine the tunnel alone is a coupe million
@@FFRROOGG If they can do 700 meter long steel structure with safety critical parts for only a couple of million, that's cheap!
I'm so in for this!
Something that could be used for fundraising is to maybe sell little squares of the plywood sheets used for the road surface. Like after the whole stunt is done just cut up the plywood into smaller sections like maybe square foot sections and sell them. I could see tons of people willing to pay a reasonable price for a section and it could at least offset the cost of the whole project by a decent amount.
Thank you for this I needed something to distract me from the absolute destruction of what used to me my favourite sport, formula one, this weekend
i cannot wait to see the result!
It might be more costly but you could consider a composite decking structure made of layered fiberglass with carbon fiber or aramid to improve penetration resistance, maybe even combined with a plywood or sheet metal layer. You could lay up the big panels in-situ like you would the plywood, with a big jig. You don't need an optimally-cured structure either if you just add more layers/thickness to improve the strength even with higher void content, allowing you to keep the in-situ lay-up really lightweight in terms of operations and allowance for temperature and humidity variation. The best people to talk to about this are probably boat builders and airframers. Oh, and you could make life easier if you coat the whole thing in that sticky grippy asphault stuff they use for drag racing (yes that would kind of be cheating, but you will need something to ensure good grip)
When this is successful, as i know it will be, please enclose the "tube" and make the whole 360, even several loops...can't wait to see!!!
I am sure he must’ve looked at doing it, as there was already a stunt by Schumacher(?) To do that 360 before. But I reckon it would add costs as you have to support the tunnel on both sides from one end to other, and in case of unfortunate fly out it's safer to fly out in air and hope you turn back before touching the ground than hitting other section of a solid metal structure. I think that’s the reason they put some exit angle at the top of the tube to help rotate the car
or lift it vertically and go up 😮 ❤😂
This is the myth I hoped mythbusters would tackle on.. looking forward to see you do it!
This is not a myth. This is based on solid science and engineering. An F1 car generates enough downforce allowing it to be driven upside down.
This has been a dream of mine since I was a kid. Hope you succeed!
if you are makeing your own tunnel then you dont have to mess with the issues that come with a diameter at all. you can make a perfectly flat (side to side) road that twists, like banking on an oval but just keep going, or like hotwheels track. this design will allow you to use proper ground effect, car can be set up more normal, steering will work correctly, dosent need to be so tall so less temporary structure to rent and quicker to put up may not even need a expencive crane rental because a telehandeler can do the job.
finaly the construction workers dont have to deal with so mutch curve and can screw flat plywood to straight bars leaving no gap instead of trying to wedge it into a curve where a gap is unavoidable.
only downside is that you cant back out early, and you have to go completely upside down on the first try.
could you make the car steer in the back in sync with the fornt?(all wheel steering) that would make the car go sideways (in this case up the tunnel) while still facing the front, perhaps solving the issue of one wheel having no contact during transition in a tunnel with a small diameter
They have the car already I think, any modifications would result in a lot of changes
So you want to use additional energy to translate the car in a direction that the aerodynamics are not set up for to solve a transient traction issue that only comes up when the car is entering the chute?
adding steering to the driven axle adds weight and complexity
they want the lightest car they can get, so the upside down speed, and therefore the tunnel length, can be as small as possible
@@RowanHawkins I was asking a question. I'm aware I'm not an engineer. even if it's just a transient traction issue, it could make or brake the project. I'm just throwing my thoughts in, like many others. just in case one of us might actually bring valuable perspectives into the conversation. it has no cost so why not
That would involve the driver now simultaneously performing Two types of steering:
- controlling the orientation of the car (the direction it’s pointing) because that won’t be automatic
- controlling the direction of travel
So this would involve a new kind of driving and a new kind of car, including both the user interface and mechanics and/or electronics that take the two steering inputs and resolve them into a combined steering solution for each of the 4 wheels.
(this is very different from what we think of as conventional 4-wheel steering)
This is certainly possible and such things exist in the world of machines, but not in systems meant to be used with great precision of reactivity to driver control at extremely high forward speeds.
I see that as being a much greater issue than the aerodynamic one, which is basically a matter of driving a car with a gentle breeze blowing across the track, the commonest thing in the world.
amazing series, my only question is, how will you lay the road surface onto the curved plywood? does it offer by it self enough grip?
If they're making a custom tunnel anyway, just make the driving path flat the whole time, kinda like a corkscrew path for the car to follow.
In my job, occasionally I tell people their idea is crazy. Then they say "I don't care, do it anyway" so basically we go through all this huge detail - the point being, that after 10, 20 or 30 hours of it, they understand just enough to realise that there was a good reason why it was crazy and agree that we're not doing it. I've never had anyone say "ah, build our own tunnel you say? OK." but I love it.
im not a civil engineer but the technical detail behind the ramp/tunnel is fascinating
Can not wait!
@Driver61
Wondering why this isn’t more a twisted ribbon than a tunnel. Plan the exact route of the car because the “road” is only where the car will drive rather than a continuous C-tube with road surface you won’t use.
This would also let you build partial to test the car rotating 45, 90… degrees and take data before going the full 180
I recently discovered your channel and this project that has me a bit mesmerized. Iam sure mankind will not be better off because of this experiment but mankind will be entertained by the attempt and hopefully successful endeavour.
Whats the plan you mentioned to recycle the components? Is Britain about to have 500 skate parks donated to the youth! Cheers 🇨🇦
Probably a silly question; could you rough the surface (e.g. like coarse grit/sandpaper) to give more tire grip or would that be a net deduction in aerodynamic performance due to slightly (albeit at a small scale) uneven surface?
Is there a way to test the structure first with a fan car then do the proper run with just passive aero?
It needs a layer that can hold the low pressure. Like Line-X or similar bedliner. Although it has a texture, the thick compound fills up larger gaps and holes. Fiberglassing the tube would bring more rigidity, but the expansion problem becomes worse. Or, you do laminate and fiberglass the plywood pieces together and float the whole tube from the structure. This makes the tube a single-use, but the driving surface is smoother when the tube is one piece. And, this whole structure needs to have a curve. The transition to the wall is easier to make with the assist of centrifugal force. Also, if you turn into the wall, this upsets the aerodynamics of the car. You should build all these turns into the structure, so that the actual driving line is as straight as possible. And, when you have turns on both ends, the track doesn't suddenly stop mid run. The car will not turn on the ceiling. So you can't drive to the ceiling, straighten the car and then turn it back down again. This will not happen without magnets. What you can do is drive it up the wall until it's upside down and keep driving straight back down the wall. When the structure has a curve in it, you can build this straight-ish line coming down at the same wall. When the car is upside down, no one can argue having centrifugal force for any effect.
Make sure you have something to say before you take off. This will go down in the records, along with your radio, regardless of outcome. Just trying is insane. Wishing you ALL the luck.
I kept hearing about how F1 cars could actually drive upside down and I kept writing to Mythbusters to attempt it that was 25 years ago. Cool!
If you had a 200 mph wind tunnel you could prove it. While having a tether on the car to keep it from flying away, you could strap the car to the ceiling and turn on the fan. Once you hit 200 mph wind, cut the straps.
it's already "proven", the whole point is the spectacle of doing it for real
Why not design a flat section of the tunnel that is the width of the car , and it spirals around the tunnel until it's inverted?
Seems like that would save a lot of the modifications to the car and give a better surface for the car.
A car-width tech doesn't give much margin for error, or route to abort if things go awry.
It would be great if one slice would be going to one museum afterwards - for instance the tech museum in Speyer, Germany (not far from Hockenheim race track) has a great tech collection and could be such place. They have also a great community to sponsor the collection.
Cant wait to see the outcome.
Such an awesome feat to attempt to pull off! Hope the sim time will prove everything right before you give it a go in real life.
You should think about the vibrations of the car and the tire transferred to the built tunnel too, it's gonna stress the weak links across the length of the run, small things add up
someone didn't watch the whole video because they talk in depth at 7:35 about that
Would the plywood surface get ripped up by the tires and also would the plywood provide enough grip on the tires?
Saw a yt video the other day where a guy did this in a video game. It did not work when he did it your way…but it did work when he built a traditional loop but at the top lo of the loop the track went flat.
Do all those plywood joints need to be air tight? Would you lose some down force if they were to loose?
If you are adding a steel sheet to the plywood to prevent roll hoop or similar penetrations then bond the sheets of plywood either side of the steel. The steel, if thick enough should restrain the plywood to an expansion coefficient near the steel so you wouldn't get the plywood vs structure expansion differences.
The Bloodhound LSR team, which aims to break the world land speed record, decided to build its own bespoke tunnel after finding it difficult to find a suitable tunnel to drive an F1 car upside down for five seconds through downforce alone. Traditional tunnels, such as those being built for infrastructure projects or those currently in use, have problems, such as flat bottoms or uneven surfaces. Those not being used would require remedial work and modifications to create a smooth surface and meet the team's requirements. The team needed to be able to control the environment as much as possible to ensure the car's downforce remained consistent and reduce the risk of the car crashing. The team worked with a senior project manager in civil engineering and an aerodynamicist to determine the best dimensions for the tunnel. They decided on a 7.5m diameter, which would keep the gap between the car and the ground as small as possible, leading to more downforce and less ride height change. The structural engineering company Expedition Engineering was then brought in to design the tunnel in detail.
Incredible! 😅
BEST THING EVEEEERRRRR!!!!!!
I wonder if building the tunnel to have a slight curve might help you out. On the one hand, it would allow the centripital force to push the car into the tunnel during the turn, which would help. At the same time, it would add yet another dimension for the car's undercarriage to deal with, suspension-wise. Just a thought.
Great video! I just wanted to let you know that the Motorsport Students & Professionals Google forms link currently includes the pointing hand emoji, so it says it's invalid
Build a short rig for a wind tunnel. No need to move the car. Much safer.
Like a rollercoaster arrangement. The car can be allowed to drop a few cm before ita held by a circumferential rail track
Edit, if you aren't bothered about the transition, you can simply mount the car inverted and see whether it can maintain suction onto the roof of the wind tunnel rig.
Much easier!
Edit 2: no need to screw up the aero with tunnel friendly suspension camber. It's more accurate as you can use standard suspension and aero geometry
man this looks expensive, but being instantly propelled the status of absolute legend if you pull it off seems worth it
Make sure the plywood panels unions are airtight enough to maintain the underfloor low pressure
You should make sure it's a Guinness world record for extra publicity 😁