Went to go watch your video before finishing this one just to show my respects, I've been hearing a lot of voices from the community essentially trying to gatekeep and saying that 16 isn't a "real" final fantasy, so seeing you put out a video like this and putting in as much effort as you did made me very happy! Hope you enjoy the next 14 expac!
I remember some people were really hating on FF8 bc 7 was so good and 8 was different. I started with the original back in the day, and although I am very casual...I always thought each game is a new story/experience with some familiar aspects.
I got 8 on day one, and bought Brave Fencer Musashi just so I could play the demo disk that came out way before the game. I loved 8, except the fact they changed the materia system.
To be honest, 16 is what everyone expected 15 to be, then the idea got scrapped. So they were angry at the release they saw in 15. 16 is the dark medieval fantasy I have always been looking for. Kudos to them.
Eh. Contrary to popular belief, I enjoyed 15. I know a lot of people complained about the story being 15 to 17 hours long, but for me, that game didn't actually start until you beat the story. The story was basically a tutorial. Lol. 😅
@@slothbeezy6432 I played 15, but as much as I tried, could not get into it. But with 16, I'm completely invested, and I don't even enjoy action based games that much. Tells you a lot about the presentation of the game.
15 should kept there original idea about the crystal exodus or whatever woulda been a far better story then whatever the fuck happened I might play it again after I'm done with 16 the combat on 16 is just mindless killing I don't even need to think it's button mash till I get abilities lol
I started with 4. I'm 35 and FFXVI is absolutely amazing to me in every way. The story, gameplay, graphics, score, voice acting, setting. FFXVI is absolutely fantastic.
I started with 2, 33 now and same tbh. The only weak ones to me have been 13 and 15 (can't speak of 11 because there were almost no original ps2 games in argentina, game stores only sold pirated copies, original games were unicorns) , with 14 being my all time favorite FF game. 16 is so far an absolute banger tho, i don't get this "leaving old fans behind" argument, when 1 and 2 had different base mechanics, then every game has it's own gimmick or unique twist of the basic idea for the plot. Tactics was also amazing despite being so different too.
Not Score and Voice Acting though. Both are terribly done. There are few OST likely taken straight from FF15, like the ambient/silent theme for instance, and many from others FF, like the dragoon appearance, crystal theme, etc. The rest is too much like a lullaby. English Voice acting, oh boy, it's like the VA lacks of breath or lung capacity to speak the clear full sentence. They speak at low pace too, and the slow/linear/boring hold/idle animations don't help much either; only make me feel sleepy whenever the conversations starts. It's like they're cutting too many corners to get the game out. Even the Japanese VA aren't anything better, either. They are so similar to FF12, nothing to stand out in terms of music and voice acting. The rest, gameplay/ visual/ settings, are fantastic, though I'm not quite sure yet since I'm only at the 4th power. And I started with 8 -> 10 then go backward from 7 to classic, then back to the 12 forward, currently at mid-20 somewhat of human years!!!
Innovation doesn't exactly mean you have to switch genres and copy other games. It's the opposite. Its the illusion of innovation. Innovation for FF would simply be improving the systems fans already love. The sales will stagnate and Square will most likely be calling this one a failure.
Well guess what. SE is not happy with the sales lol. As i say all the time and as you said,people use the word innovation, évolution so conveniently :D just to justify the weird shallow direction of FF after 10. :D
Thank you I'm glad someone said it. It's not innovation is changing genres to get this so called modern audience. Final fantasy strength has been innovative turn based combat.
Final fantasy hasn't been the same for a very long time. They all share some aspects and similarities like themes and enemies but otherwise each new mainline game is always changing the formula. What FF ultimately does is tell stories. They may play different but they all want to tell stories.
@@gunzkiller101 Been playing since the original in 1990, back when you couldn't spam the attack command since you could be attacking a dead enemy. I'll say that this one is closer to Crisis Core than to a mainline non-mmo Final Fantasy. Personally speaking, since the PlayStation era my favorite FF is IX.
@@gunzkiller101 I played FF6 as my first, and I HOPE THEY give FF6 the FF7 remake treatment. But I think they should keep the turn based instead of the ATB system.
Creative Business Unit III isn’t named by choice by Yoshi-P or the development team. It’s simply the business structuring within SE. They were all previously called Business Division __ (whatever number they were). When they restructured, they renamed them Creative Business Unit __ (whatever number). Which, to be fair, sounds way cooler in Japanese.
I want to give more contexto to this, so to briefly summarize what other franchises are normally developed in the other Square Enix divisions in Japan (this are not fixed divisions and does not include other external studios hired by SE): - Creative Business Unit 1: Mostly single player FF games (with the exepction of 16) and their spinoffs, SaGa and Kingdom Hearts. . - Creative Business Unit 2: The Dragon Quest, NieR, Team Asano (Octopath Traveler, Live A Live remake, Triangle Strategy), Bravely Default, and the developers that conformed Luminous Prodctions (Forspoken) after its disolution. - Creative Business Unit 3: FF 16, FF 14, FF 11and Dragon Quest Builders spin-off series. As you can see there are a lot of multiplayer and / or MMORPG titles in this except one. - Creative Business Unit 4: Mana (Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, World of Mana, etc) series, as well as the division in charge of ports and remasters.
Oh shit, no wonder I like DQB2 so much, didn't know that was the same team. Now I'm not as upset that there isn't a builders 3, they're busy making awesome FF content.
My idea of FF is a teenager or young adult getting roped into a conflict because they saved a prince/princess. Your first quest is collecting herbs for a down on his luck merchant and the last quest is killing God
Basically FF5, you're just a guy minding your own business and you're just roped into this bigger conflict because you just happen to be there at the right place at the right time
why can't people accept that this was not what they expected, no team management, really half baked RPG elements, DMC Gameplay... it's a good game but definitely not what you would expect of a FF
Yeh I'm old school and even though 16 isn't my thing, it's a move in the right direction. 15 just looked shit. Driving around in a car with a boyband.. jesus fucking christ.
Dude the voice acting is probably the best I've ever experienced in a video game. Idk what game some of these people played but it's not the same one I've been playing I just got it yesterday and I'm about 35% through it and so far it's been an absolute masterpiece of a game.
This game does not innovate at all. We have tons of games with better action combat. Better rpg elements. This game innovates on graphics and the story is extremely solid. That´s about it. I felt like someone was holding my hand in every boss battle, well the whole game actually. No puzzles, no secrets, no party, no real magic. You never have to think, just follow the markers.
100% agree. 16 is the most Final Fantasy the series has felt to me since probably 9. 12 was great but the Ivalice games really feel like their own thing
Hell yeah. I've been a huge fan since 4/2 on SNES but I also played FF1 on the NES in its time. So I'm about as long-time fan as you can get and I'm loving FFXVI. FF has always introduced pretty big changes with each entry and I like what they've done with this one.
5:39 seeing the panel of TB, Dodger, and Jesse Cox reall hit the ol nostigia nerve. Man those 3 were such a good trio especially with the CO-Optional Podcast and Polaris. What a blast from the past. RIP TotalBiscuit fuck cancer
Still annoys me too this day that people dont give credit too Phantasy Star Online being the first console mmo what sega did was nothing short of a miracle for back then.
I really find these people rolling their eyes at the "not my Final Fantasy" crew are kinda missing a bigger point. Yes, every FF has been different. But they've all been RPGs. Some maybe moreso than others but I'd feel good calling most of them RPGs. FF16 is really more of a character action game with big cutscenes. It's another genre entirely. And the games don't need to go back to turn based combat or anything. Remake had a sort of hybrid system that is very well liked.
Every FF is different in plot and mechanics but the genre itself has been consistent in older titles. They only changed genre out of laziness to innovative with turn based gameplay. Action RPG genre is saturated and when your game was the best at turn based and you turn your back on it. Something is wrong. Games shouldn't chase trends, each genre offers different things and are equally as fun. Sims can be as fun as COD or FIFA. They should try to copy each other to get more fickle 'fans'. They lost their identity.
I've sat a few times and just marveled at the game on how they reintroduce characters we know and love (the eikons/primals/summons) and leave you feeling like you're witnessing them for the first time again. Garuda's face was absolutely stunning, that grin with fangs and wicknedness with her was captured so well. I applaud Square honestly, and appreciate seeing their games grow with their audience.
Yuck bro. Her acting and crap was terrible. Glad she wasn't a long time baddie. Your L take is what happens when people don't expect good story telling and dialog.
@@viator1987 Lol, lookit this schmuck, literally can't tell the difference between a five foot blonde human character design and a hundred foot, green palette harpy goddess. Imagine being completely blind. XD
@@Echozies100% I was just telling a friend that this is the most interesting and captivating story I've played through since GoW 2018 (Ragnarok was amazing but the story wasn't as good) and the first game since that one that I have trouble putting down.
It's a good game but also very shallow. Sorry, but you need more than pretty particles to distract me from the fact that it's no longer an RPG anymore. 😂
A huge reason people have always loved the FF series is because of the story, music, amazing cutscenes and the party. Meeting and adding party members, how you get along with them and their storylines. That’s why people love them. Change the combat and anything else you want, I feel like that is what the core fan base has always appreciated and loved more then anything else. So I do think they missed a lot of the reason most old school players don’t like it. With games like Elden Ring, it’s proof you can stick to your roots, and still evolve and appeal to a larger audience. I knew ALOT of people who did not like Souls games including myself. But Elden Ring bridged that gap and it obviously worked. Totally different games just giving an example.
Yeah but for me all of it has always been better in FF in my opinion 🤷♂️ to each there own. Just what I think. Not saying it be never played any other good JRPG
Yeah that was the main reason and is the main reason I don’t like it as much or it doesn’t feel like ff to me. It’s always been about the characters interactions and growth throughout the story and 16 doesn’t do that for me. I’ve slowly let the expectation I had for that with playing ff go though and am enjoying 16 for what it is, just as it’s own game but I still am craving that ff party interaction. Hopefully another game can do it soon, maybe metaphor.
This. Jessecox's video explains why 16 is a Final Fantasy title and I agree because they can make whatever game they want and call it a FF title since it's very loose like that but I feel like 16 is a bad FF title because of this missing element. XV was considered an objectively bad game but was saved by the boy band. We all know what Gladio, Prompto, and especially Ignis went through for Noctis while the prince is having his own set of tragedies himself. This doesn't take into account that even side characters such as Aranaea and Ravus were doing some work behind the scenes. I'd always play FF because of the journey- be it isometric turn-based XCOM style, classic FF ATB style or the more recent flashier active combat style but from what I saw and know so far, XVI isn't doing it for me.
Skill Up isnt immune from biased takes. He admitted his review of Jedi Survivor was positive mostly because he loves Star Wars more than the game itself. He also avoided a Harry Potter review because 'busy' but its clear he just didnt want to draw the ire of social media and tarnish his rep. FF16 had similar drama about racism so a negative review would get him some social brownie points.
Final Fantasy as a series is a JRPG - i.e. RPG with turn based mechanics (or even hybrids like 12 and 7R and yes, that means 15 wasn't a great Final Fantasy either). 16 is an action game outright, it's not even a RPG because the "levels" in that game mean nothing. So no, it's not a "Final Fantasy" game, it's a DMC clone with less depth than actual DMC. If people want what 16 is pretending to be, then Kingdom Hearts 3 is the more in depth game with actual RPG mechanics attached to its Action gameplay. As someone who likes JRPGs because of the genre itself, why would I want to play 16 when there's individually better RPGs and better Action games on the market?
All I know is that each final fantasy is its own thing, own ganre, and generates its own fanbase. What keeps them connected are themes, concepts, a phenomenal story, and usually an expected degree of polish and spectical. People tend to forget that FF has ALWAYS been experimental with story and gamelay. You don't have to love every single entry or sequal, but their will probably be one ya like out there.
This sounds rather untrue. For the mainline numbered final fantasy series while they all have differing stories they all follow the exact same jrpg 'genre' and formulation. And although people may have been introduced to the series at different points in the time line, the fan base has never been fractured into strictly fans of a single game only. Historically If your a real fan of one game you typically go out of your way to play them all and are a fan of the series, less so the individual games. I've never met a FF fan who has only played just one FF from the mainline.. Honestly, the biggest and most neccessry improvement they could make to appease mainline fans of the series is allow full control of who is in the party and who you choose to use in combat.. This would instantly take it from a god of war spinoff series to a mainline worthy FF
@@joshd2477respectfully disagree...each FF entry redefined what jrpg (Japanese role playing game) meant and the genre became a pretty broad umbrella as a result. i will also respectfully disagree that you limited what developers can or cannot do to "improve" the game. i started with FFVIII and i am a proud FFVIII fan. as a result, i play other FF entries since VII with the exception of XI and XIV because i do not play MMORPG. so people do become fans of specific entries, it's not a blanket brand except the developer's ability to surprise and delight gamers. true FF fans are open-minded as to what developers are willing to serve.
@philospht I mean you quite literally just proved my point... You became a fan of 8 and this caused you to end up becoming a fan of FF as a whole not just 8 right?? There is no one in this world who played ff8, loved it, and said screw the others I'm happy stopping there??? The whole franchise makes you a fan wether you have an individual favourite or not (and everybody does of course) , FF is bigger than just a single game or a single story. Plus If you know any TRUE final fantasy fans you know they are FAR from open minded when it comes to there mainline games... They know exactly what defines final fantasy as a franchise and accept nothing short of this. That's not to say we don't welcome innovation, we very much do, and FF used to be the best in the biz at this, but 16 is not innovation.... Simply copying western rpg, and slapping a FF story to it, is not redifining jrpg it's just selling out to entice a new audience
@@joshd2477 i became a fan of being delighted by how each FF is different from what i was used to. VIII is still my go to when i need comfort gaming. and i don't have any expectation of what FF should be. i like FF Tactics, Type-0, and the World of Final Fantasy. i also played Mobius and Brave Exvius on the phone. none of them can fit in just one box. i had to learn new things every time and that's what i learned to like. if you want to put FF in a box, then you do not like FF as a whole then.
Yeah I think the game should have Cid, Clive, and Jill. 3 characters. Like Devil may cry has. FF7 remake also let's you have party, and is very action focused.
Innovation isn’t the issue. It’s taking a 30 yr franchise and making it more of a Devil May Cry, Tales of Arise, God of War combo game. It’s closer to those games than what we always liked as classic fans. I can play this new game but my wife loved FF and she is totally not a hardcore gamer. That’s what leaving fans behind means. She cannot play this game.
@@stephen8342oh, many times. I started with ff8 and can remember vividly you for sure get messages at times of which going back isn't an option in that game
Throughout my gameplay on FF16 i've found references on GOT, DBZ, Gundam and many other pop culture references, i love that they created a DMC like fighting style for FF16 and i hope that the next FFMMO after 14 gets this playstyle too.
I honestly hope not. There is a reason those types of mmos are not top teir. The most successful mmos right now are ffxiv and WoW which are tab targeting with CD's. Yoshi-p has already said they are planning major updates for ffxiv for another 10 years so I wouldn't count on it anytime soon also 7.0 is going to be a graphics update for ffxiv.
I've heard this for the last two decades, every new ff installment is said to have "abandoned old fans", when ff17 comes around we will hear the same thing.
I love Jesse's Videos. He's always been such a great voice in the gaming community, and his 5 Minute Gaming news is one of my favorite series on the internet. His Final Fantasy video was great to watch.
Final fantasy used to be western fantasy stories told in a jrpg setting but since 13 its an anime jrpg with a western flavor. its the difference between darksouls/bloodborne and sekiro
FF7 was my first FF...in 2017. Im only 23 but went out of my way to play every 3D FF (except 11) and there are things I dislike about some but love in others. I don't like FF12 but know that there are people that love the games systems. FF16 is looking to be the one I replay the most above FFX simply because I enjoy the combat of the game more which is ultimately what I would come back for.
the first game came out in 1987 and they were all turn based up until FF15 outside of the MMOs and FF12 to a degree, the real difference is FF16 was the first time the game really moved away from an RPG because there are no other real party members you have control over unlike previous FFs. Of course the game left old fans behind.
They found a way to make a focused single player game with big cast of characters relevant in an age of games where everything is an online social gathering place. As an old FF fan I love this new FF
what makes Final Fantasy I would say are the Gods/SUmmons and Magic Spells. throught the game these have been consistant along with certian Names Cid Brick and others.The Tropes change the Setting change. even the mechanics of the very game but you know a final fantasy game when you see Cura spell cast or a Summon of Bahamut hit the field.
Final Fantasy over the years has changed a lot. Their unique stories are what makes the series so great. This series is one of my favorite RPG's off all time.
and that last sentence is what FF is no longer. Its not an RPG anymore The magic types makes is no longer relevant, party members some of whom you cared more about than the actually main character are no longer relevant Its like they made a 3D pokemon action game and types are no longer in the game. Its kinda dumb to do something like that
I'm happy we don't have to keep 3 to 4 discs pristine. Or you can't continue on to disc 4 to finally finish final fantasy 8 after playing forever. You'll see error disk 4 cannot be read and now you feel empty and incomplete. it happened over 20 years ago and I'm still salty!
I also want to give more contexto to the whole "Creative Business Unit" name, so to briefly summarize what other franchises are normally developed in the other Square Enix divisions in Japan (this are not fixed divisions and does not include other external studios hired by SE): - Creative Business Unit 1: Mostly single player FF games (with the exepction of 16) and their spinoffs, SaGa and Kingdom Hearts. . - Creative Business Unit 2: The Dragon Quest, NieR, Team Asano (Octopath Traveler, Live A Live remake, Triangle Strategy), Bravely Default, and the developers that conformed Luminous Prodctions (Forspoken) after its disolution. - Creative Business Unit 3: FF 16, FF 14, FF 11and Dragon Quest Builders spin-off series. As you can see there are a lot of multiplayer and / or MMORPG titles in this except one. - Creative Business Unit 4: Mana (Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, World of Mana, etc) series, as well as the division in charge of ports and remasters.
They didn't leave old fans behind though, not for Botw or OOT. That's not true. OOT is well known as quintessential Zelda, but is just A link to the past upscaled in 3D and Botw differs in direction linearly from how Zelda games have recently been, but it's strikingly similar to the very first Zelda and can be seen as a reimagining. A game that throws you in with nothing and gives you a goal and it's on you from there to explore the lands secrets. Botw also wants to "badly let go of it's past legacy," but it constantly calls back to it's history in references which is contradictory to that claim, even reusing Ganondorf for TOTK and linking the theme of the game to Skyward Sword lore (which canonically is the first Zelda timeline wise to start the Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf triad). So I entirely disagree with your example that they "left their fans behind" or that it's good even though I understand your sentiment.
I think the 2 worst parts of FF16 were the rather minimal rpg elements, and the lack of a defined party. The party is the main issue for me, I love managing my party and building them to make a cohesive team that works well together.
Yes. Without those 2 elements its just not a FF game. Even the spin-offs/sequels like X-2 and 13-2 were a lot more FF game despite both going out of their way to do things very differently.
Skill ups review would have been fine... If only he didn't review FF7R. I swear, all the things he hated or docked on FFXVI was something he loved/ignored on his review for FF7R even though they were the same.
As a fan of the Final Fantasy series since the SNES, FF16 trying to be something new and different is exactly why I’ve liked the series over the decades. The mainline Final Fantasy games push boundaries, and even as a long-time fan, there are some FF games I don’t jive with. 13 is a great example, never played it, had it the whole time and never wanted to play it. I also bounced off 12 initially but the remaster fixed a bunch of the problems I had with the original I bought a special edition steel book copy of at launch. Also been a fan of Jesse since Co-Optional Podcast, glad to see him finally get that bump to 1 million subs. Thanks for introducing him to your audience with a great video!
I've played them all except 13-3 whatever that was. I am enjoying FF16 quite a bit too. I mean to me the theme's of crystals, summons, politics between kingdoms, and a few other things are what kind of loosely brings FF games together other than that they are all their own things with different strengths and weaknesses.
16 is genuinely an amazing FF, do I wish I could customize my party? Yes. Do I wish there were classes? Sure. But this is STILL an amazing FF game. The story slaps, graphics slap, music SLAPS, is the combat different? Yeah but I think it is SO much fun!!
ill say this, its more of a hack and slash then an rpg,,, I'm more into the rpg, being classes, builds, playing the way i want to , and when i start a new game i can play it completely differently. now I'm sure this isn't a bad game,,, but its defiantly not for me.
“It’s exactly what it’s always been!” Yeah a game where you meet a group of people and explore their characters while you and your big party of heroes join up in battle to work together to kill bosses. Oh wait..
I have a buddy that played every FF except 14. And he enjoyed it. So did my gf. They didn't care about missing mechanics but they loved the overall gameplay and story. They geeked out over it for 12-15 hrs a day. Sharing and talking about who's who and what's what. I haven't played FF since PS1 so seeing them goo "oh s,#&, that's such and such". Or the "Oh no, I have to kill chocobos". My buddy said it's GoTY. Due to the story and gameplay.
They can scream not my final fantasy all they want. Far as I’m concerned, it is for me. They are entitled to their opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Though also, I’m fairly confident if it had stayed turn based, the argument would just flip to FF has no originality and it’s just a reskin. It never ends so play what you want and formulate your own opinions I say.
They made the marketing machine so big on the name "Final fantasy" they need to abandon the old fans in order to maintain the franchise. It's sad from my pov but at least they created Octopath traveller I & II and Triangle Strategy... But the saddest thing is since "The Last Story" (2011) Sakaguchi is not doing games for console but for mobile on Mistwalker...
I kinda get both sides. On one side I think there are many examples of turn based jrpg's that are popular today so I don't get the need to change the style of the game to be an action hack'n'slash with rpg elements. On the other hand, Final Fantasy has always been a series that constantly tried new things and changed its mechanics to their core multiple times. Also FFXV was already basically an action game.
@whasian1487 I'm not upset either! I love this game direction. But I also feel that the decision to lean so much on the Devil May Cry action style to revive the series made more sense during a specific time frame when japanese jrpg's were seriously struggling (PS3/early PS4 era). Today we have games like Persona 5, Octopath Traveller, Dragon Quest XI that are perhaps not as mainstream as FF, but someone could argue the contrary. Especially in recent times. Having said so, I love this game, but I get those opinions!
@@whasian1487 Exactly. There have never been as much good turn based RPGs out there than today. Atelier series, SMT series, Persona, Tales, Trails, Fire Emblem, Bravely Default, Octopath... You can feasibly play nothing but turn based RPGs and have thousands of hours of gameplay.
@@BygoneT 2 - No character levels, you instead increase skills by using them. Something akin to Skyrim. 3 - changing jobs in game instead of being set as the same jobs at the start. 5 - Mastery. Being able to take certain abilities from jobs and matching them with others. 6 - Magicite, customizing your characters magic by equiping different summons. 7 - Limit Break 8- Draw and Junction magic 10 - Interaction events in battles, party swapping mid fight.
I understand those fans. But for myself I think the game is fun, the story is great, music is good that's all I wanted for a Finalfantasy series. *edit* Oh! And don't forget the Bahamut, Shiva, Chocobo, Moogle too!♥♥
just finished that part thought the eikon battle couldn't get any better than titan fight. That bahamut fight is just crazy fun, can't wait to see the rest lol.
I’m like 89% through final fantasy 16. I will say that the story is definitive final fantasy, but It plays more like a god of war clone, which is neither good nor bad. I would have preferred if they did the same mechanics with a lineup of characters to level up and experience alongside this new combat rather than packing it onto one guy, but that’s the part of the franchise I hope they remember to keep moving forward. I would have loved to play some of the characters that we travel alongside, if even briefly with a cooldown like in 15.
I started from ff7 on ps1, and this latest game is a masterpiece imo, the voice acting, story, immersion is all top tier. Of course turn based combat is no longer a thing and is alot different to the ff1-6 of the pixel remasters but it's a great game in its own right
Why are japanese games so good and have so much quality and effort, requires skill, makes you think, makes you love them, have no microtransactions and always innovate the gaming industry. Makes you think where the real talents of videogames really are. Look at SF6 as well, it's insane.
Also, here are some games from Square Enix that have turn-based combat for people that miss that system: - Octopath Traveler 2 - Bravely Default series - Live A Live - Tactics Ogre Reborn - The upcoming SUPER MARIO RPG remake - DQ 11 - FF Pixel Remaster And for those who are longing for an "FF party in the traditional sense", wait for FF 7 Rebirth or the rumored FF 9 remake.
I used to watch Jesse all the time but I stopped when TotalBiscuit passed away. I loved their collabs so much and it just made me sad. I should start watching him again though. Jesse was always hilarious and such a nice person
As a lifelong Final Fantasy fan, and someone who does not particularly enjoy action combat, I absolutely loved FFXVI. It has it's flaws, but so does every game.
The best JRPG so far is Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and it's tearing Final Fantasy XVI to shreds. In general, the entire series of Xenogear, Xenosaga, Xenoblade Chronicles tear to shreds the children's story of Final Fantasy
This isn’t growth it’s regression. This isn’t even an rpg. Square makes the best role playing games in the industry and they choose to develop and release a watered down version of Devil May Cry with the depth of a tablespoon. Really hope this isn’t the future of FF
You know who else left old fans behind? Star Wars, and absolutely no one thought it was a good idea when they did it. ‘Leave old fans behind’ is not always a good thing.
The point that Jesse missed entirely is that the truth is that FF16 has ZERO world depth and item relevance, and ZERO PROGRESSION significance. It’s a movie with great graphics. There are SO MANY reasons why this game misses the point.
Wow I never thought I'd see a Jesse Cox asmongold crossover O_O Been following Jesse for probably 14 years? Maybe a bit less, since I was a literal young boy; him and TotalBiscuit basically instilled my morals and understandings and enjoyment of games and things; because they felt like my older cooler brothers
How is his content going? Used to watch their podcast and their individual channels (dodger also) as a child, but stopped following after TB death, can't watch them, reminds me of the sadnes as that was my first dealing with death.
@@BlackPeagas he's doing alright views wise he's doing 5 minutes gaming news as daily content, sometimes he play games with dodger, still does podcast with crendor, and occosionaly drop my favorite series on youtube "scary game squad" with his gang
What I thought was ridiculous was that when FF9 came out, everyone complained that the characters weren't realistic and were super deformed for the cartoony feel, I guess, but they never realized that up until 7 and 8, every character was super-deformed to that cartoony look.
Just one old fart's opinion, but FF16 is more "My Final Fantasy" then any Final Fantasy has managed to be for like 20 years. From the first trailers I actually thought 16 looked old school as hell. My first Final Fantasy was 4, and I thought 16 was a huge love letter to that age of Final Fantasy. I think "old" fans are actually not old enough to remember that the original games were as Game of Thrones as you could get. For me 16 perfectly captures the the drama, murder, and just straight up darkness that existed in 4 and 6 (From the American point of view, these two were the most important ones). I still think that 6 has one of the darkest twists in the history of Video Games. Also, the perfect adaption of the old Final Fantasy art style into a 3d game is mind blowing. Google Yoshitaka Amano ff4 and it's just crazy how the design of Clive's armor, weapons, and the Fallen technology was just ripped from the old games. Mechanics are of course a whole different story, but as an overall package I'm crazy happy with this entry from an old school fan's perspective.
FF has going downhill since 13, since 13 they cut HD cities cut Character's story cut Party members cut RPG elements Look at ff7 remake needed use 3 blueray disc to store the whole game, that's prove older game has so much thing that's impossible to do now due to development cost. Is not that we changed or grow older, is really most of the SE talent had leaved the company long time ago.
Valkyrie Elysium left fans behind. The Third Birthday left its fans behind. Final Fantasy is moving away from turned based, but 16 works as a hybrid of 13 and 7 remake.
i remember same thing when 7 came out, then when 9 came, and 10 and also 11 but after a couple of months most everyone liked them and 7 is still everyone's favorite not to mention FFT (my fav), FFTA, WoTV or even how Ivalice show's up in Vagrant Story. FF is very broad in most all respects with the common trait that they are nearly all worth playing, and personally even the ones i don't care for are still really good games just not my fav's in the franchise.
I can genuinely say that FF16 has one of if not the most Final Fantasy Story of Final Fantasy. Like, from the elements of the story that have existed in about every medieval Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy 1's Lufenians and the Wind Temple, and that opened the final arc of FF9, to having amazing story beats and attention to writing and characters. The writing and music is phenomenal and is extremely FF That and Final Fantasy is known for change, I would like anyone to tell me which numbered final fantasy isn't drastically different from the FF before it. Even X and X-2 are drastically different, hell; I think only 4 and 4-2 are all that similar
"Old fans", the same people that haven't liked a single release since 12 in '06. It's been 17yrs, if they don't like it they need to move on to a different franchise...
Hey man, I’m one of those old fans who feels left behind by this new Final Fantasy. I’ve been a gamer for 3 decades. And I can appreciate a great game, and FF 16 IS an objectively great game. But that doesn’t change the fact that they completely fking abandoned everything that I love about this series, in favor of catering to the casual community. Because, this game is BUILT for casuals. Just like all the other shiny new things these days. If u want a game like this, play Devil May Cry!!! These things exist in their own spaces for a reason. And btw, it’s Not a great idea to abandon your fans cuz they are the only ones u can count on fr.
Okay, I really want you to run this by me again. Final Fantasy is now a fully action game because it's trying to be... casual? From a generally turn-based, team based game that you can play at your leisure fully and take as much time as you want on a boss battle, to demanding you give your full attention to a boss fight with timed parries and dodges and combos... that's casual now? Truly a "elbows too pointy, 2/10, would not bang" comment here.
I had the original red covered players guide for FF1. There are a lot of cool things about FF16. The story is great, it's intense and brutal. The graphics are great - the framerate isn't the best even on the performance setting but it's livable. I think gameplay has suffered though. The combat is incredibly formulaic, just like every other action game that is being put out there - timed block/dodge and then counterattack. Line up all your abilities for stagger windows. And that is every. single. fight. We've lost a library of magic, we've lost a library of abilities that do things besides different ways of doing damage. We've lost interesting status effects and effects on gear because everything is just +damage or +armor for the most part. I'm enjoying the play through of FF16 to an extent, but I can't really see myself wanting to replay this like FF6, FF7, FF10, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, etc. The gameplay just isn't enjoyable to me. There is no possibility for different approaches or strategies to the combat, it's all just dodge and attack. So fucking boring.
In the Mana series, excluding remakes, ya just just dodged enemy attacks (with the dpad), and hit enemies until they''re dead, healing/reviving if you got hit. Bosses are the same except you buffed/debuffed your party. Their remakes are just straight up character action games.
I agree. I give the game 10/10 because the story, graphics, the world were all top notch. The combat was good but not great. And my biggest gripes were the lack of rewarding exploration and lack of customization of gear. You just got free upgrades throughout the game given to you. I prefer elden ring where you can build out your character. Still was a great game
I don't think that's really leaving old fans behind especially with FF, the last games were all so different in how to play it. With 10 the last real turn based combat to 12 with more MMO approach and setups for attacks. If we go with that statement we should say with every title they leave their old fans behind. And yeah FF X graphics blew me out of the water. But I don't think this is correct.
Genuinely humbled my dude. Thank you.
Went to go watch your video before finishing this one just to show my respects, I've been hearing a lot of voices from the community essentially trying to gatekeep and saying that 16 isn't a "real" final fantasy, so seeing you put out a video like this and putting in as much effort as you did made me very happy! Hope you enjoy the next 14 expac!
thanks for articulately voicing out (and in a spectacular way too) what i wanted to say to some of those who are in luddite level
thank you Jesse for this :D
Been a long time viewer since OMFGcata days. Awesome video, and I hope you hit 1 million subs!
Awesome video as always Jesse!
I remember some people were really hating on FF8 bc 7 was so good and 8 was different. I started with the original back in the day, and although I am very casual...I always thought each game is a new story/experience with some familiar aspects.
Oh yeah FF8 full of handsome like boy band even villain 😂 people kidda piss the edgy game story focus on Romance (?) Final fantasy
I got 8 on day one, and bought Brave Fencer Musashi just so I could play the demo disk that came out way before the game. I loved 8, except the fact they changed the materia system.
different and totally different is different, pun intended.
8's leveling scaling system is a fucking trainwreck
Squall has the personality fans give to cloud.
To be honest, 16 is what everyone expected 15 to be, then the idea got scrapped. So they were angry at the release they saw in 15. 16 is the dark medieval fantasy I have always been looking for. Kudos to them.
Same
Eh. Contrary to popular belief, I enjoyed 15. I know a lot of people complained about the story being 15 to 17 hours long, but for me, that game didn't actually start until you beat the story. The story was basically a tutorial. Lol. 😅
@@slothbeezy6432 I played 15, but as much as I tried, could not get into it. But with 16, I'm completely invested, and I don't even enjoy action based games that much.
Tells you a lot about the presentation of the game.
you have voiced my opinion about those two games. thanks
15 should kept there original idea about the crystal exodus or whatever woulda been a far better story then whatever the fuck happened I might play it again after I'm done with 16 the combat on 16 is just mindless killing I don't even need to think it's button mash till I get abilities lol
I started with 4. I'm 35 and FFXVI is absolutely amazing to me in every way. The story, gameplay, graphics, score, voice acting, setting. FFXVI is absolutely fantastic.
I started with 2, 33 now and same tbh. The only weak ones to me have been 13 and 15 (can't speak of 11 because there were almost no original ps2 games in argentina, game stores only sold pirated copies, original games were unicorns) , with 14 being my all time favorite FF game. 16 is so far an absolute banger tho, i don't get this "leaving old fans behind" argument, when 1 and 2 had different base mechanics, then every game has it's own gimmick or unique twist of the basic idea for the plot.
Tactics was also amazing despite being so different too.
Not Score and Voice Acting though. Both are terribly done. There are few OST likely taken straight from FF15, like the ambient/silent theme for instance, and many from others FF, like the dragoon appearance, crystal theme, etc. The rest is too much like a lullaby.
English Voice acting, oh boy, it's like the VA lacks of breath or lung capacity to speak the clear full sentence. They speak at low pace too, and the slow/linear/boring hold/idle animations don't help much either; only make me feel sleepy whenever the conversations starts. It's like they're cutting too many corners to get the game out. Even the Japanese VA aren't anything better, either.
They are so similar to FF12, nothing to stand out in terms of music and voice acting. The rest, gameplay/ visual/ settings, are fantastic, though I'm not quite sure yet since I'm only at the 4th power.
And I started with 8 -> 10 then go backward from 7 to classic, then back to the 12 forward, currently at mid-20 somewhat of human years!!!
@@lastest_debteenatorThis is all incorrect, thought you should know.
@@timekeeper2538 Yea, no. The score and VA for this game is amazingly well done.
@@lastest_debteenatorget out here bot ass. Its a great game
Innovation doesn't exactly mean you have to switch genres and copy other games. It's the opposite. Its the illusion of innovation. Innovation for FF would simply be improving the systems fans already love. The sales will stagnate and Square will most likely be calling this one a failure.
Well guess what. SE is not happy with the sales lol. As i say all the time and as you said,people use the word innovation, évolution so conveniently :D just to justify the weird shallow direction of FF after 10. :D
Thank you I'm glad someone said it. It's not innovation is changing genres to get this so called modern audience. Final fantasy strength has been innovative turn based combat.
Final fantasy hasn't been the same for a very long time. They all share some aspects and similarities like themes and enemies but otherwise each new mainline game is always changing the formula. What FF ultimately does is tell stories. They may play different but they all want to tell stories.
Since 2001 😂
Guarantee most old fans didn’t even play early FF and only play 7.
@@gunzkiller101 Been playing since the original in 1990, back when you couldn't spam the attack command since you could be attacking a dead enemy. I'll say that this one is closer to Crisis Core than to a mainline non-mmo Final Fantasy. Personally speaking, since the PlayStation era my favorite FF is IX.
@@gunzkiller101 110 % having played FF1-6 this game reminds me most of those obviously.
@@gunzkiller101 I played FF6 as my first, and I HOPE THEY give FF6 the FF7 remake treatment. But I think they should keep the turn based instead of the ATB system.
The further i get in to the game the more final fantasy the story feels like. I would go as far as saying ff16 is more final fantasy than ff15 was.
NOO.
Not saying much.... FF15 was an absolute piece of shit.
That's a pretty low bar, all things considered.
and less than the 13 others
@@theremix54I need whatever you're smoking
Creative Business Unit III isn’t named by choice by Yoshi-P or the development team. It’s simply the business structuring within SE. They were all previously called Business Division __ (whatever number they were). When they restructured, they renamed them Creative Business Unit __ (whatever number). Which, to be fair, sounds way cooler in Japanese.
I want to give more contexto to this, so to briefly summarize what other franchises are normally developed in the other Square Enix divisions in Japan (this are not fixed divisions and does not include other external studios hired by SE):
- Creative Business Unit 1: Mostly single player FF games (with the exepction of 16) and their spinoffs, SaGa and Kingdom Hearts.
.
- Creative Business Unit 2: The Dragon Quest, NieR, Team Asano (Octopath Traveler, Live A Live remake, Triangle Strategy), Bravely Default, and the developers that conformed Luminous Prodctions (Forspoken) after its disolution.
- Creative Business Unit 3: FF 16, FF 14, FF 11and Dragon Quest Builders spin-off series. As you can see there are a lot of multiplayer and / or MMORPG titles in this except one.
- Creative Business Unit 4: Mana (Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, World of Mana, etc) series, as well as the division in charge of ports and remasters.
Oh shit, no wonder I like DQB2 so much, didn't know that was the same team. Now I'm not as upset that there isn't a builders 3, they're busy making awesome FF content.
@@Some__GuyAgreed have been hoping for a third one but now that I know they’ve been working on games like ff16 I feel better
CBU3 is a brand by itself because of YoshiP and FF14 - its logo is a phoenix. Other CBUs were never mentioned in a game trailer or any promo material.
uh ya, we know this. its still funny
My idea of FF is a teenager or young adult getting roped into a conflict because they saved a prince/princess. Your first quest is collecting herbs for a down on his luck merchant and the last quest is killing God
Basically FF5, you're just a guy minding your own business and you're just roped into this bigger conflict because you just happen to be there at the right place at the right time
@@GodDiggetyDoodle Basically XII too! Poor Vaan just had the worst luck
@@nuryyss I mean... did he really? He got the adventure and stuff that he so craved.
Clive was a knight who failed to save the prince, so FF16 sort of spins the trope on its head.
That's just JRPG.
why can't people accept that this was not what they expected, no team management, really half baked RPG elements, DMC Gameplay... it's a good game but definitely not what you would expect of a FF
This will always be the one of gaming hottest debate. Whether a game should change in order to draw new crowd or revive itself for the market.
And its sub debate, whether it's okay to abandon a small niche of fans for the moneyed masses.
@@HallyVee niches dont maintain games, really simple as.
@@HallyVeeWhats wrong with the masses? Why do you characterize them as "monied"? Obviously anti-new player bias
@@HallyVee maybe the niche of fans should pay more
@@HallyVee nah thats not a debate, niche of fans should be abandoned every single time for the moneyed masses in capitalism.
As a fan of old school FF:
FF16 feels and looks more like old FF than FF15.
This.
Best FF since FFX for me.
Ff 15 was so bad
agree
Yeh I'm old school and even though 16 isn't my thing, it's a move in the right direction.
15 just looked shit. Driving around in a car with a boyband.. jesus fucking christ.
Nobodies talking about how the voice acting in 16 is some of if not the best FF has ever had it's very underrated.
For real ff7 remake eng dub voice is just okay but 16 was incredible.
Nah, I just don't play with English dub.
English Dub? Yeah.
I don't know about the Japanese dub, but FF7R had an amazing Japanese dub.
It's horrible.
Exaggerated American Netflix English.
Dude the voice acting is probably the best I've ever experienced in a video game. Idk what game some of these people played but it's not the same one I've been playing I just got it yesterday and I'm about 35% through it and so far it's been an absolute masterpiece of a game.
This game does not innovate at all.
We have tons of games with better action combat.
Better rpg elements.
This game innovates on graphics and the story is extremely solid. That´s about it.
I felt like someone was holding my hand in every boss battle, well the whole game actually.
No puzzles, no secrets, no party, no real magic.
You never have to think, just follow the markers.
Im an old Final fantasy fan and i LOVE what they did with 16 ...im enjoying the game a lot 😂
Bro and we have Final Fantasy rebirth just around the corner.
100% agree. 16 is the most Final Fantasy the series has felt to me since probably 9. 12 was great but the Ivalice games really feel like their own thing
One of the best yet just too short
Same the game is amazing and I’m a ff veteran I’ve played them all
Hell yeah. I've been a huge fan since 4/2 on SNES but I also played FF1 on the NES in its time. So I'm about as long-time fan as you can get and I'm loving FFXVI. FF has always introduced pretty big changes with each entry and I like what they've done with this one.
5:39 seeing the panel of TB, Dodger, and Jesse Cox reall hit the ol nostigia nerve. Man those 3 were such a good trio especially with the CO-Optional Podcast and Polaris. What a blast from the past. RIP TotalBiscuit fuck cancer
Yeah man. Felt that too. RIP TotalBiscuit.
Rip T.B may he rest in peace..
Still annoys me too this day that people dont give credit too Phantasy Star Online being the first console mmo what sega did was nothing short of a miracle for back then.
I really find these people rolling their eyes at the "not my Final Fantasy" crew are kinda missing a bigger point. Yes, every FF has been different. But they've all been RPGs. Some maybe moreso than others but I'd feel good calling most of them RPGs. FF16 is really more of a character action game with big cutscenes. It's another genre entirely.
And the games don't need to go back to turn based combat or anything. Remake had a sort of hybrid system that is very well liked.
Every FF is different in plot and mechanics but the genre itself has been consistent in older titles. They only changed genre out of laziness to innovative with turn based gameplay. Action RPG genre is saturated and when your game was the best at turn based and you turn your back on it. Something is wrong. Games shouldn't chase trends, each genre offers different things and are equally as fun. Sims can be as fun as COD or FIFA. They should try to copy each other to get more fickle 'fans'. They lost their identity.
I've sat a few times and just marveled at the game on how they reintroduce characters we know and love (the eikons/primals/summons) and leave you feeling like you're witnessing them for the first time again. Garuda's face was absolutely stunning, that grin with fangs and wicknedness with her was captured so well. I applaud Square honestly, and appreciate seeing their games grow with their audience.
Yuck bro. Her acting and crap was terrible. Glad she wasn't a long time baddie. Your L take is what happens when people don't expect good story telling and dialog.
@@viator1987 Garuda isnt the same thing as the dominant, Garuda only had a couple lines of dialog and really only existed for one chapter of the game.
@@viator1987 Lol, lookit this schmuck, literally can't tell the difference between a five foot blonde human character design and a hundred foot, green palette harpy goddess. Imagine being completely blind. XD
I've played almost every Final Fantasy game and bought FF16 on day one with no regrets. 🤷♂
GOTY for real makes me wonder why other game developers can’t do what this team could
@@Nead_Dill_Dickersons_jr Agreed, honestly its best I seen since GOW 2018
@@Echozies100% I was just telling a friend that this is the most interesting and captivating story I've played through since GoW 2018 (Ragnarok was amazing but the story wasn't as good) and the first game since that one that I have trouble putting down.
@@Echozieseaisly better GOW 2018.
I had a vested intrest in seeing Bahmut, and boy, was i not let down. Been playing since ff 7 Playstation 1...
16 was the first FF game I felt love for in almost a decade, lol.
Final fantasy 10 was pretty goated for its time. That was years ago
I really loved the gambit system in ff12, although I realise that was some years ago now end of the l
Ps2 era 🤣
@@johnjackson2349 ps2 still best console of alltime..
It's a good game but also very shallow. Sorry, but you need more than pretty particles to distract me from the fact that it's no longer an RPG anymore. 😂
Not a unique opinion tbh, i see people saying that or something similar everytime a new FF releases.
A huge reason people have always loved the FF series is because of the story, music, amazing cutscenes and the party. Meeting and adding party members, how you get along with them and their storylines. That’s why people love them. Change the combat and anything else you want, I feel like that is what the core fan base has always appreciated and loved more then anything else.
So I do think they missed a lot of the reason most old school players don’t like it. With games like Elden Ring, it’s proof you can stick to your roots, and still evolve and appeal to a larger audience. I knew ALOT of people who did not like Souls games including myself. But Elden Ring bridged that gap and it obviously worked. Totally different games just giving an example.
But isn’t that like every other jrpg
Yeah but for me all of it has always been better in FF in my opinion 🤷♂️ to each there own. Just what I think. Not saying it be never played any other good JRPG
Yeah that was the main reason and is the main reason I don’t like it as much or it doesn’t feel like ff to me. It’s always been about the characters interactions and growth throughout the story and 16 doesn’t do that for me.
I’ve slowly let the expectation I had for that with playing ff go though and am enjoying 16 for what it is, just as it’s own game but I still am craving that ff party interaction. Hopefully another game can do it soon, maybe metaphor.
This. Jessecox's video explains why 16 is a Final Fantasy title and I agree because they can make whatever game they want and call it a FF title since it's very loose like that but I feel like 16 is a bad FF title because of this missing element. XV was considered an objectively bad game but was saved by the boy band. We all know what Gladio, Prompto, and especially Ignis went through for Noctis while the prince is having his own set of tragedies himself. This doesn't take into account that even side characters such as Aranaea and Ravus were doing some work behind the scenes.
I'd always play FF because of the journey- be it isometric turn-based XCOM style, classic FF ATB style or the more recent flashier active combat style but from what I saw and know so far, XVI isn't doing it for me.
I liked turn based and the twists they made on it as soon as it went action based I just stopped caring, haven't looked back since.
Skill Up isnt immune from biased takes. He admitted his review of Jedi Survivor was positive mostly because he loves Star Wars more than the game itself. He also avoided a Harry Potter review because 'busy' but its clear he just didnt want to draw the ire of social media and tarnish his rep. FF16 had similar drama about racism so a negative review would get him some social brownie points.
Final Fantasy as a series is a JRPG - i.e. RPG with turn based mechanics (or even hybrids like 12 and 7R and yes, that means 15 wasn't a great Final Fantasy either). 16 is an action game outright, it's not even a RPG because the "levels" in that game mean nothing. So no, it's not a "Final Fantasy" game, it's a DMC clone with less depth than actual DMC. If people want what 16 is pretending to be, then Kingdom Hearts 3 is the more in depth game with actual RPG mechanics attached to its Action gameplay. As someone who likes JRPGs because of the genre itself, why would I want to play 16 when there's individually better RPGs and better Action games on the market?
I am so sick of this disingenuous argument that Jesse is making. He is deliberately ignoring what people are talking about.
exactly. i pointed that out in his comment section and noone had a response.
All I know is that each final fantasy is its own thing, own ganre, and generates its own fanbase. What keeps them connected are themes, concepts, a phenomenal story, and usually an expected degree of polish and spectical. People tend to forget that FF has ALWAYS been experimental with story and gamelay. You don't have to love every single entry or sequal, but their will probably be one ya like out there.
This sounds rather untrue. For the mainline numbered final fantasy series while they all have differing stories they all follow the exact same jrpg 'genre' and formulation. And although people may have been introduced to the series at different points in the time line, the fan base has never been fractured into strictly fans of a single game only. Historically If your a real fan of one game you typically go out of your way to play them all and are a fan of the series, less so the individual games. I've never met a FF fan who has only played just one FF from the mainline..
Honestly, the biggest and most neccessry improvement they could make to appease mainline fans of the series is allow full control of who is in the party and who you choose to use in combat.. This would instantly take it from a god of war spinoff series to a mainline worthy FF
It's literally their final fantasy every game. It's great.
@@joshd2477respectfully disagree...each FF entry redefined what jrpg (Japanese role playing game) meant and the genre became a pretty broad umbrella as a result.
i will also respectfully disagree that you limited what developers can or cannot do to "improve" the game. i started with FFVIII and i am a proud FFVIII fan. as a result, i play other FF entries since VII with the exception of XI and XIV because i do not play MMORPG. so people do become fans of specific entries, it's not a blanket brand except the developer's ability to surprise and delight gamers. true FF fans are open-minded as to what developers are willing to serve.
@philospht I mean you quite literally just proved my point... You became a fan of 8 and this caused you to end up becoming a fan of FF as a whole not just 8 right?? There is no one in this world who played ff8, loved it, and said screw the others I'm happy stopping there??? The whole franchise makes you a fan wether you have an individual favourite or not (and everybody does of course) , FF is bigger than just a single game or a single story.
Plus If you know any TRUE final fantasy fans you know they are FAR from open minded when it comes to there mainline games... They know exactly what defines final fantasy as a franchise and accept nothing short of this. That's not to say we don't welcome innovation, we very much do, and FF used to be the best in the biz at this, but 16 is not innovation.... Simply copying western rpg, and slapping a FF story to it, is not redifining jrpg it's just selling out to entice a new audience
@@joshd2477 i became a fan of being delighted by how each FF is different from what i was used to. VIII is still my go to when i need comfort gaming. and i don't have any expectation of what FF should be. i like FF Tactics, Type-0, and the World of Final Fantasy. i also played Mobius and Brave Exvius on the phone. none of them can fit in just one box. i had to learn new things every time and that's what i learned to like. if you want to put FF in a box, then you do not like FF as a whole then.
I do wish there would be controllable party members and more customization elements for equipment and stuff but the game is fun
Me too. I wish I could play as Jill or Cid in combat. Or even Torgal.
Yeah I think the game should have Cid, Clive, and Jill. 3 characters. Like Devil may cry has. FF7 remake also let's you have party, and is very action focused.
@@mangomarielMaybe an expansion between the thirteen years
Agree
Agree with the party members, not so much with the items, rpg elements in character action games suck
Innovation isn’t the issue. It’s taking a 30 yr franchise and making it more of a Devil May Cry, Tales of Arise, God of War combo game. It’s closer to those games than what we always liked as classic fans.
I can play this new game but my wife loved FF and she is totally not a hardcore gamer. That’s what leaving fans behind means. She cannot play this game.
I love how Final Fantasy X was not only a huge jump in graphics, but also had such a good artstyle and direction that it looks good to this day
Old ff fan here and not feeling abandoned lol
Also skill up did that review out of spite after Yoshi P called him out for mentioning "JRPG"
Seeing that “you have reached a pivotal part of the story if you continue there is no going back” gave me major old school Final Fantasy vibes
I mean... that's in like every RPG these days, man.
@@Eidlones Not final fantasy, Theres nothin left to call them a rpg
When the fuck did you ever get a warning in old final fantasy?
@@stephen8342oh, many times. I started with ff8 and can remember vividly you for sure get messages at times of which going back isn't an option in that game
@@brantmcmillan1716yep, unfortunately I have to agree more and more with each installment they put out
Throughout my gameplay on FF16 i've found references on GOT, DBZ, Gundam and many other pop culture references, i love that they created a DMC like fighting style for FF16 and i hope that the next FFMMO after 14 gets this playstyle too.
Besides Gundam Strike Freedom popping up 70% into the game, what other Gundam refs did you see?
I honestly hope not. There is a reason those types of mmos are not top teir. The most successful mmos right now are ffxiv and WoW which are tab targeting with CD's. Yoshi-p has already said they are planning major updates for ffxiv for another 10 years so I wouldn't count on it anytime soon also 7.0 is going to be a graphics update for ffxiv.
Ugh. You must be a Gintama fan too if references makes you happy.
I need examples please
I've heard this for the last two decades, every new ff installment is said to have "abandoned old fans", when ff17 comes around we will hear the same thing.
Phantasy Star Online is the actual first major console MMORPG. You tried
This game quite a bit like FF4 in story and tone. The only thing different is the combat, which feels like a Tales of game.
But there aren't several party members interacting,in FF XVI
ff16 is going up there into my favorite final fantasy games with 7 and 10. Can't wait to get the PC release.
I love Jesse's Videos. He's always been such a great voice in the gaming community, and his 5 Minute Gaming news is one of my favorite series on the internet. His Final Fantasy video was great to watch.
Except hes clearly biased and mocking people for genuine critiques.
@@jaybee4288 wait, this is jesse cox
are you perhaps mistaken him with pyromancer lmao ?
I find him hard to watch because he sort of jerks off through any game he plays
Erm actually one correction FF3 introduced the job system. FF5 expanded the roster of jobs and mastering jobs
Final fantasy used to be western fantasy stories told in a jrpg setting but since 13 its an anime jrpg with a western flavor. its the difference between darksouls/bloodborne and sekiro
11:43 Watching this after Baldurs Gate 3 cleared every GOTY award possible this year. LOL
😂😂😂
Asmon admitting he's never played FF7 is comparable to a movie critic admitting he's never seen The Godfather
FF7 was my first FF...in 2017. Im only 23 but went out of my way to play every 3D FF (except 11) and there are things I dislike about some but love in others. I don't like FF12 but know that there are people that love the games systems.
FF16 is looking to be the one I replay the most above FFX simply because I enjoy the combat of the game more which is ultimately what I would come back for.
the first game came out in 1987 and they were all turn based up until FF15 outside of the MMOs and FF12 to a degree, the real difference is FF16 was the first time the game really moved away from an RPG because there are no other real party members you have control over unlike previous FFs. Of course the game left old fans behind.
They found a way to make a focused single player game with big cast of characters relevant in an age of games where everything is an online social gathering place. As an old FF fan I love this new FF
what makes Final Fantasy I would say are the Gods/SUmmons and Magic Spells. throught the game these have been consistant along with certian Names Cid Brick and others.The Tropes change the Setting change. even the mechanics of the very game but you know a final fantasy game when you see Cura spell cast or a Summon of Bahamut hit the field.
As a Turn based combat lover, i got left since FF X-2. Still playing all offline ones.
Final Fantasy over the years has changed a lot. Their unique stories are what makes the series so great. This series is one of my favorite RPG's off all time.
Let them make a movie then 😂 not an easy game like that !
@@Sasori.OfTheRedSand Dont search Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
and that last sentence is what FF is no longer. Its not an RPG anymore
The magic types makes is no longer relevant, party members some of whom you cared more about than the actually main character are no longer relevant
Its like they made a 3D pokemon action game and types are no longer in the game. Its kinda dumb to do something like that
I'm happy we don't have to keep 3 to 4 discs pristine. Or you can't continue on to disc 4 to finally finish final fantasy 8 after playing forever. You'll see error disk 4 cannot be read and now you feel empty and incomplete. it happened over 20 years ago and I'm still salty!
I also want to give more contexto to the whole "Creative Business Unit" name, so to briefly summarize what other franchises are normally developed in the other Square Enix divisions in Japan (this are not fixed divisions and does not include other external studios hired by SE):
- Creative Business Unit 1: Mostly single player FF games (with the exepction of 16) and their spinoffs, SaGa and Kingdom Hearts.
.
- Creative Business Unit 2: The Dragon Quest, NieR, Team Asano (Octopath Traveler, Live A Live remake, Triangle Strategy), Bravely Default, and the developers that conformed Luminous Prodctions (Forspoken) after its disolution.
- Creative Business Unit 3: FF 16, FF 14, FF 11and Dragon Quest Builders spin-off series. As you can see there are a lot of multiplayer and / or MMORPG titles in this except one.
- Creative Business Unit 4: Mana (Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, World of Mana, etc) series, as well as the division in charge of ports and remasters.
So true!
@@RavusNox-z5ii do not thing is better, just different.
They didn't leave old fans behind though, not for Botw or OOT. That's not true. OOT is well known as quintessential Zelda, but is just A link to the past upscaled in 3D and Botw differs in direction linearly from how Zelda games have recently been, but it's strikingly similar to the very first Zelda and can be seen as a reimagining. A game that throws you in with nothing and gives you a goal and it's on you from there to explore the lands secrets. Botw also wants to "badly let go of it's past legacy," but it constantly calls back to it's history in references which is contradictory to that claim, even reusing Ganondorf for TOTK and linking the theme of the game to Skyward Sword lore (which canonically is the first Zelda timeline wise to start the Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf triad).
So I entirely disagree with your example that they "left their fans behind" or that it's good even though I understand your sentiment.
Me who absolutely adores this game but also loves games like 12, and 7 lol
12 is my favorite FF and I feel so alone in this
Based
@@mhchx3 12 is my favorite to
@@mhchx312 is my favorite as well.
I think the 2 worst parts of FF16 were the rather minimal rpg elements, and the lack of a defined party.
The party is the main issue for me, I love managing my party and building them to make a cohesive team that works well together.
Yes. Without those 2 elements its just not a FF game. Even the spin-offs/sequels like X-2 and 13-2 were a lot more FF game despite both going out of their way to do things very differently.
Honestly FF16 feels kind of like Devil may Cry to me.
Skill ups review would have been fine... If only he didn't review FF7R. I swear, all the things he hated or docked on FFXVI was something he loved/ignored on his review for FF7R even though they were the same.
16 and 7re is the same game without the latter party,status ailments/weakness and materia
As a fan of the Final Fantasy series since the SNES, FF16 trying to be something new and different is exactly why I’ve liked the series over the decades.
The mainline Final Fantasy games push boundaries, and even as a long-time fan, there are some FF games I don’t jive with. 13 is a great example, never played it, had it the whole time and never wanted to play it. I also bounced off 12 initially but the remaster fixed a bunch of the problems I had with the original I bought a special edition steel book copy of at launch.
Also been a fan of Jesse since Co-Optional Podcast, glad to see him finally get that bump to 1 million subs. Thanks for introducing him to your audience with a great video!
As a long time fan of the Final Fantasy series, I absolutely love FF16 and I hope the series continues to thrive and take risks.
I've played them all except 13-3 whatever that was. I am enjoying FF16 quite a bit too. I mean to me the theme's of crystals, summons, politics between kingdoms, and a few other things are what kind of loosely brings FF games together other than that they are all their own things with different strengths and weaknesses.
Man.... I hope they never make anything like that ever again, ever.
16 is genuinely an amazing FF, do I wish I could customize my party? Yes. Do I wish there were classes? Sure. But this is STILL an amazing FF game. The story slaps, graphics slap, music SLAPS, is the combat different? Yeah but I think it is SO much fun!!
100% agree fam.
ill say this, its more of a hack and slash then an rpg,,, I'm more into the rpg, being classes, builds, playing the way i want to , and when i start a new game i can play it completely differently. now I'm sure this isn't a bad game,,, but its defiantly not for me.
“It’s exactly what it’s always been!” Yeah a game where you meet a group of people and explore their characters while you and your big party of heroes join up in battle to work together to kill bosses.
Oh wait..
I have a buddy that played every FF except 14. And he enjoyed it. So did my gf. They didn't care about missing mechanics but they loved the overall gameplay and story. They geeked out over it for 12-15 hrs a day. Sharing and talking about who's who and what's what. I haven't played FF since PS1 so seeing them goo "oh s,#&, that's such and such". Or the "Oh no, I have to kill chocobos". My buddy said it's GoTY. Due to the story and gameplay.
They can scream not my final fantasy all they want. Far as I’m concerned, it is for me. They are entitled to their opinion and I’m entitled to mine.
Though also, I’m fairly confident if it had stayed turn based, the argument would just flip to FF has no originality and it’s just a reskin. It never ends so play what you want and formulate your own opinions I say.
A reskin of what, though? Suikoden?
They made the marketing machine so big on the name "Final fantasy" they need to abandon the old fans in order to maintain the franchise. It's sad from my pov but at least they created Octopath traveller I & II and Triangle Strategy... But the saddest thing is since "The Last Story" (2011) Sakaguchi is not doing games for console but for mobile on Mistwalker...
I kinda get both sides. On one side I think there are many examples of turn based jrpg's that are popular today so I don't get the need to change the style of the game to be an action hack'n'slash with rpg elements. On the other hand, Final Fantasy has always been a series that constantly tried new things and changed its mechanics to their core multiple times. Also FFXV was already basically an action game.
I don't recall there being much experimentation before the turns went away
@whasian1487 I'm not upset either! I love this game direction.
But I also feel that the decision to lean so much on the Devil May Cry action style to revive the series made more sense during a specific time frame when japanese jrpg's were seriously struggling (PS3/early PS4 era). Today we have games like Persona 5, Octopath Traveller, Dragon Quest XI that are perhaps not as mainstream as FF, but someone could argue the contrary. Especially in recent times.
Having said so, I love this game, but I get those opinions!
@@whasian1487 Exactly. There have never been as much good turn based RPGs out there than today. Atelier series, SMT series, Persona, Tales, Trails, Fire Emblem, Bravely Default, Octopath... You can feasibly play nothing but turn based RPGs and have thousands of hours of gameplay.
@@thesunthroneAlso we have Yakuza, which was always an action based game that changed to turned based in the latest reboot of the series.
@@BygoneT 2 - No character levels, you instead increase skills by using them. Something akin to Skyrim.
3 - changing jobs in game instead of being set as the same jobs at the start.
5 - Mastery. Being able to take certain abilities from jobs and matching them with others.
6 - Magicite, customizing your characters magic by equiping different summons.
7 - Limit Break
8- Draw and Junction magic
10 - Interaction events in battles, party swapping mid fight.
I understand those fans.
But for myself I think the game is fun, the story is great, music is good that's all I wanted for a Finalfantasy series.
*edit* Oh! And don't forget the Bahamut, Shiva, Chocobo, Moogle too!♥♥
Here’s the problem: before you can even analyze the issue, you have to define what a makes a final fantasy game, a final fantasy game
@@id1550there is also another issue with Purist FF fans like you keep telling ppl the "definition" of Final Fantasy game since FF 16 out
I do not understand those fans lmao
@@id1550i’m honestly curious, what does make final fantasy game a final fantasy game for you?
What if capcom made a turnbased DMC ?
After battling bahamut last night im still shock why most people still dislike the game
Because a game is not only made of spectacular cutscenes and boss battles?
And it's not "most".
just finished that part thought the eikon battle couldn't get any better than titan fight. That bahamut fight is just crazy fun, can't wait to see the rest lol.
one thing they keep getting right, if not better as they age is the epic battle sequences
I’m like 89% through final fantasy 16. I will say that the story is definitive final fantasy, but It plays more like a god of war clone, which is neither good nor bad. I would have preferred if they did the same mechanics with a lineup of characters to level up and experience alongside this new combat rather than packing it onto one guy, but that’s the part of the franchise I hope they remember to keep moving forward. I would have loved to play some of the characters that we travel alongside, if even briefly with a cooldown like in 15.
I started from ff7 on ps1, and this latest game is a masterpiece imo, the voice acting, story, immersion is all top tier. Of course turn based combat is no longer a thing and is alot different to the ff1-6 of the pixel remasters but it's a great game in its own right
Why are japanese games so good and have so much quality and effort, requires skill, makes you think, makes you love them, have no microtransactions and always innovate the gaming industry. Makes you think where the real talents of videogames really are. Look at SF6 as well, it's insane.
Blue protocol…
Most of them DO have microtransactions, they are just not the kind of games you would pay attention to.
@@None38389 One example? Cause I'm not talking about Korean games.
Also, here are some games from Square Enix that have turn-based combat for people that miss that system:
- Octopath Traveler 2
- Bravely Default series
- Live A Live
- Tactics Ogre Reborn
- The upcoming SUPER MARIO RPG remake
- DQ 11
- FF Pixel Remaster
And for those who are longing for an "FF party in the traditional sense", wait for FF 7 Rebirth or the rumored FF 9 remake.
Final Fantasy old stans are the most annoying fans ever. They don't accept change and never will💀💀
dude i still want a Turn Based FF game, badly. X and X-2 were my favorite by far.
10 came out right around the same time as 9. That is the most impressive bit for me. 10 was crazy on the graphics.
Remeber getting the ps2 with ffx bundle,grafics blew me away.ffix is still my fav.
10 one of the greatest stories
10 was garbage
@@Jaydenreco haaaahaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaa
@@Jaydenrecoyou mean 10-2
I used to watch Jesse all the time but I stopped when TotalBiscuit passed away. I loved their collabs so much and it just made me sad. I should start watching him again though. Jesse was always hilarious and such a nice person
This feels like a modern version of a classic Final Fantasy game.
By being unable to control a party? That's an antithesis of classic FFs.
As a lifelong Final Fantasy fan, and someone who does not particularly enjoy action combat, I absolutely loved FFXVI. It has it's flaws, but so does every game.
I played all FF since 90s but damn FF16 is Great!
Skill up review was 💯💯 ff fanboys got big mad over facts 😂😂
He told the truth and had the balls to do so. Big respects to him.
@@Alvun416 ff fanboys hardcore ones just want people to praise ff16 and never give a fair opinion
@@TheDavidvgz They're a damn cult at this point.
The best JRPG so far is Xenoblade Chronicles 3 and it's tearing Final Fantasy XVI to shreds. In general, the entire series of Xenogear, Xenosaga, Xenoblade Chronicles tear to shreds the children's story of Final Fantasy
This isn’t growth it’s regression. This isn’t even an rpg. Square makes the best role playing games in the industry and they choose to develop and release a watered down version of Devil May Cry with the depth of a tablespoon. Really hope this isn’t the future of FF
You know who else left old fans behind? Star Wars, and absolutely no one thought it was a good idea when they did it. ‘Leave old fans behind’ is not always a good thing.
The point that Jesse missed entirely is that the truth is that FF16 has ZERO world depth and item relevance, and ZERO PROGRESSION significance. It’s a movie with great graphics. There are SO MANY reasons why this game misses the point.
Well in Final fantasy (1) the production team was called A-Team. so... Creative business unit III is quiet a jump.
Wow I never thought I'd see a Jesse Cox asmongold crossover O_O Been following Jesse for probably 14 years? Maybe a bit less, since I was a literal young boy; him and TotalBiscuit basically instilled my morals and understandings and enjoyment of games and things; because they felt like my older cooler brothers
How is his content going? Used to watch their podcast and their individual channels (dodger also) as a child, but stopped following after TB death, can't watch them, reminds me of the sadnes as that was my first dealing with death.
@@BlackPeagas he's doing alright views wise
he's doing 5 minutes gaming news as daily content, sometimes he play games with dodger, still does podcast with crendor, and occosionaly drop my favorite series on youtube "scary game squad" with his gang
What I thought was ridiculous was that when FF9 came out, everyone complained that the characters weren't realistic and were super deformed for the cartoony feel, I guess, but they never realized that up until 7 and 8, every character was super-deformed to that cartoony look.
Since when does pixelated equates super deformed?
What? No. I've been playing FF since 1997. It's the best Final Fantasy in at least twenty years.
Some people : It's not FF !
Sakaguchi Hironobu : Let's play FF16 😎
I guess they think they know FF more than Sakaguchi Hironobu.
Old FF fan here. Very much enjoying the game and don't feel "left behind". Sounds to me like people inventing criticism to stir the pot.
I've been playing since 6. 16, has become in my top 3 favorites. 6, 9,16. Boom. Game is INCREDIBLE.
Just one old fart's opinion, but FF16 is more "My Final Fantasy" then any Final Fantasy has managed to be for like 20 years.
From the first trailers I actually thought 16 looked old school as hell. My first Final Fantasy was 4, and I thought 16 was a huge love letter to that age of Final Fantasy. I think "old" fans are actually not old enough to remember that the original games were as Game of Thrones as you could get. For me 16 perfectly captures the the drama, murder, and just straight up darkness that existed in 4 and 6 (From the American point of view, these two were the most important ones). I still think that 6 has one of the darkest twists in the history of Video Games.
Also, the perfect adaption of the old Final Fantasy art style into a 3d game is mind blowing. Google Yoshitaka Amano ff4 and it's just crazy how the design of Clive's armor, weapons, and the Fallen technology was just ripped from the old games.
Mechanics are of course a whole different story, but as an overall package I'm crazy happy with this entry from an old school fan's perspective.
FF has going downhill since 13, since 13 they
cut HD cities
cut Character's story
cut Party members
cut RPG elements
Look at ff7 remake needed use 3 blueray disc to store the whole game, that's prove older game has so much thing that's impossible to do now due to development cost.
Is not that we changed or grow older, is really most of the SE talent had leaved the company long time ago.
Jesse has been stuck at "almost a million subs" for a long time now. Please, everyone, help that jolly old man finally achieve his dream
Valkyrie Elysium left fans behind. The Third Birthday left its fans behind. Final Fantasy is moving away from turned based, but 16 works as a hybrid of 13 and 7 remake.
More of a hybrid of 15 and 7:R since. 7:R built off of 13. But 16’s combat is closer to 15.
i remember same thing when 7 came out, then when 9 came, and 10 and also 11 but after a couple of months most everyone liked them and 7 is still everyone's favorite not to mention FFT (my fav), FFTA, WoTV or even how Ivalice show's up in Vagrant Story. FF is very broad in most all respects with the common trait that they are nearly all worth playing, and personally even the ones i don't care for are still really good games just not my fav's in the franchise.
I can genuinely say that FF16 has one of if not the most Final Fantasy Story of Final Fantasy.
Like, from the elements of the story that have existed in about every medieval Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy 1's Lufenians and the Wind Temple, and that opened the final arc of FF9, to having amazing story beats and attention to writing and characters.
The writing and music is phenomenal and is extremely FF
That and Final Fantasy is known for change, I would like anyone to tell me which numbered final fantasy isn't drastically different from the FF before it.
Even X and X-2 are drastically different, hell; I think only 4 and 4-2 are all that similar
"Old fans", the same people that haven't liked a single release since 12 in '06. It's been 17yrs, if they don't like it they need to move on to a different franchise...
Hey man, I’m one of those old fans who feels left behind by this new Final Fantasy. I’ve been a gamer for 3 decades. And I can appreciate a great game, and FF 16 IS an objectively great game. But that doesn’t change the fact that they completely fking abandoned everything that I love about this series, in favor of catering to the casual community. Because, this game is BUILT for casuals. Just like all the other shiny new things these days.
If u want a game like this, play Devil May Cry!!! These things exist in their own spaces for a reason. And btw, it’s Not a great idea to abandon your fans cuz they are the only ones u can count on fr.
Okay, I really want you to run this by me again. Final Fantasy is now a fully action game because it's trying to be... casual? From a generally turn-based, team based game that you can play at your leisure fully and take as much time as you want on a boss battle, to demanding you give your full attention to a boss fight with timed parries and dodges and combos... that's casual now?
Truly a "elbows too pointy, 2/10, would not bang" comment here.
@@thesunthrone when you die you respawn with full potions and boss at reduced health. Truly the height of demanding gameplay
I had the original red covered players guide for FF1.
There are a lot of cool things about FF16. The story is great, it's intense and brutal. The graphics are great - the framerate isn't the best even on the performance setting but it's livable.
I think gameplay has suffered though. The combat is incredibly formulaic, just like every other action game that is being put out there - timed block/dodge and then counterattack. Line up all your abilities for stagger windows. And that is every. single. fight. We've lost a library of magic, we've lost a library of abilities that do things besides different ways of doing damage. We've lost interesting status effects and effects on gear because everything is just +damage or +armor for the most part.
I'm enjoying the play through of FF16 to an extent, but I can't really see myself wanting to replay this like FF6, FF7, FF10, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, etc. The gameplay just isn't enjoyable to me. There is no possibility for different approaches or strategies to the combat, it's all just dodge and attack. So fucking boring.
In the Mana series, excluding remakes, ya just just dodged enemy attacks (with the dpad), and hit enemies until they''re dead, healing/reviving if you got hit. Bosses are the same except you buffed/debuffed your party.
Their remakes are just straight up character action games.
Nowhere near as boring as scrolling through endless menus to find a certain item and "i attack you, you attack me" bs 😅😅😅😅😅
I agree. I give the game 10/10 because the story, graphics, the world were all top notch. The combat was good but not great. And my biggest gripes were the lack of rewarding exploration and lack of customization of gear. You just got free upgrades throughout the game given to you. I prefer elden ring where you can build out your character. Still was a great game
There's a FF for everyone. People do tend to fall in love with their first FF.
Im not upset because its just not for me, I am upset because its bad. FF deserves better but its been dead for over 10 years at this point.
I don't think that's really leaving old fans behind especially with FF, the last games were all so different in how to play it.
With 10 the last real turn based combat to 12 with more MMO approach and setups for attacks.
If we go with that statement we should say with every title they leave their old fans behind.
And yeah FF X graphics blew me out of the water.
But I don't think this is correct.
I played almost every FF, indeed i prefer turn based combat, but i also not gonna hate or trash 16.
The current games are fun but I do miss the turn based battle system