Brave was a Disappointment
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- In which I talk about Brave for far too long, covering basically everything you can cover about the film: from analyzing the dynamic between its main characters and breaking down its dual plots to discussing its production problems and the firing of its original director, Brenda Chapman.
I tell some jokes along the way, I guess.
Contact info: in the channel 'about' page
Social media: / eliquorice
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:44 - Chapter 1 - Womanhood & Femininity
05:42 - Chapter 2 - Betrothal of the Princess
08:11 - Chapter 3 - So Much Promise
12:59 - Chapter 4 - Mother Bear
14:04 - Chapter ٥ - What a dumb problem to solve
23:23 - Chapter ٦ - Pick a Plotline
36:40 - Chapter ٧ - A Story without Gender
42:37 - Chapter ٨ - So, what do we do now? - Фільми й анімація
Came across this on reddit. Really well-produced essay. Brave was above all else a failure to pick and solidify a direction. I've always known that but I've never seen it so eloquently explained. Keep up the good work.
The only non schaff comment..
@@dizzee6089 I was here before it was cool, lol.
@@ZekeFreek definitely
2+ cool points
What disappointed me is the inconsistency of magic in the movie as well as the problem with the plot progression not really making sense.
They should've used the same type of introduction for the spell and magic as they did in Beauty & The Beast or Sleeping Beauty, and used it during the start of the movie.
Also, I fully expected that Merida would have to use her mother's teachings and remember the things she tried to learn her in order to save her mother from society's vengeance in some way (the common enemy), but doing it by mixing in her own skills because she has yet to learn everything. It wouldn't be a perfect plan and it would require her to think it through more than usual.
On the flip side, her mother should also go through the same development by realising how she's passing on the societal oppression to her daughter and that it's keeping them both from progressing, and that she needs to teach her the realities of life but actually be there for her as well.
In the end they should've fought their common enemy together and both learned difficult lessons, especially how to empathise with and respect each other, in order to "win".
The bear plot could've worked if they had done it better, but it felt misplaced because the plot was lacking.
It annoys me how it could've been so much better, especially since it was already good. They should've made the movie a little longer and they could've shown your perspective easily throughout the film together with consistent magical elements as well.
I'd watch a remake of this movie in this way.
I wish they'd make one, and I don't understand the movie industry's reluctance towards remaking movies with great potential.
"...a failure to pick and solidify a direction."
Sounds a lot like what happened to Highschool D×D.
disney is like uh oh we're getting too close to meaningful commentary we gotta turn them into an animal
Yep it’s exactly the reason why soul is being praised rn
@@Notavisionary
It has funny moments but still holds emotional points
@@Notavisionary Soul was okay from what I've heard. Not a masterpiece but not as bad as this one, and they actually focused on the topic and theme of the film. The only problem was the tone of the movie which was the cartoony parts of the movie
@@remyhavoc4463 do you mean the spirit world?, I thought all of the sequences in there before the ending were great fun
@@Notavisionary oh fuck I'm illiterate af
I thought you said it was the reason why it was not successful or something XD
Well, I haven't seen it yet but I've seen a review. (By Schaffrillas Productions)
He said that it was kinda like Inside Out, where it tackles serious topics but the overall tone of the movie could've been better if it wasn't so cartoony. Like Ratatouille, where he thinks is the perfect Pixar film because the balance between the cartoony humor and realism is flawless.
This plot was originally going to be the next mulan of female empowerment...then they got high,watched brother bear,someone yelled no balls and we lost about 30 minutes of actual plot.
This, exactly
And this is why it makes us sick that there exists people that dismiss Mulan (1998) and other Disney Renaissance films (that aren’t Pocahontas) as only good at best while treating Brave, like Incredibles 2, Toy Story 4, The Good Dinosaur and Cars 2 like they should be much more widely considered greater Pixar films than A Bug’s Life, The Incredibles (believe it or not, on Cosmodore’s video on The Good Dinosaur, there is a comment thread full of people that dislike The Incredibles like Mario Wolfe Art are criminally underrated and the people that defend The Incredibles as an incredible movie are treated as edgy, opinion-dissing bandwagoners), the Finding Nemo duology (especially the original!!!!), Toy Story 1-3, Up, Monsters’ Inc., WALL•E, Coco, Ratatouille and even the Pixar shorts like For the Birds, Boundin’, Luxo Jr., Geri’s Game, Presto, My Friend the Rat, Piper, La Luna, Day & Night, Partly Cloudy, Jack-Jack Attack, Lifted and Red’s Dream.
This comment is beautiful
Damn, over a couple-hundred of upvotes on a comment in just a half-day (then again, I even got on other comments during the same time amount sometimes).
We already have enough annoying "female empowerment" for an eternity.
I love the bow burning scene so much, just the way she immediately turns to pull it out, crying and covering her face because her anger has subsided and she realizes she lashed out to hurt her daughter instead of teaching her. God damn, I’m so sad this wasn’t the rest of the movie.
Given the director's background, it would've been interesting to see how this movie turned out without any of that bear stuff. There's barely any calculatedly told movies where you're forced to pay attention for really getting it! You know what I mean?
I know right? It's such a damn interesting premise. Seeing a daughter trapped by tradition under a mother who sticks to it because she believes it's best for everyone. Obviously that marriage will be annulled by the end, but *how would we get there?* Such a disappointment that we didn't get to see it
That really is the best scene of the movie it’s the point where both characters frustration with each other reaches its peak and they’re tired of each others shit and deliberately hurt one another and the moment of regret from Eleanor afterwards? Ugh it’s perfect
I feel like we all forget who the intended audience is. This is a kids movie. Some of these scences can be hard for kids to sit through. Yes, serious dialouge and family dysfunction is awesome to see and relate to when addressed so well in any movie. But for a kid? You think they wanna see their life plastered on a big screen? When I was younger I would have hated the movie if it were as serious as yall want. And Im not saying I wouldnt enjoy such a route now. But what I am saying is kids dont want to see their trauma with their parents basically animated and retold. Adults do because we understand those straightforward and nuanced lessons. But for kids those lessons need to be watered down in a way that would make sense and add some magic to the process. I have seen many replies saying they absolutely loved this movie as a kid but realized how "meh" the plot is now that theyre older. But that is actually exactly how the process was intended. Youre basically complaining that the audience is kids and therefor the plot is made in a way to which THEY will understand. of course adult natures are implemented but that is NOT their DESIGNED audience.
I'd say the mom, in a pique of anger, took away the child's instrument of insolence.
In today's world , her kid filmed private conversation with Mom and uploaded edited version that made Mom look like crap. So Mom smashes phone (bought by mom).
Or kid gets arrested for driving drunk in car provided by parents, and Mom sells car.
Saying gender has nothing to do with brave’s story is like saying carl’s grief over ellie has nothing to do with up’s story.
Best way to put it
Indeed
@@cupcakKe_express. Makes more sense then red panda being an allegory for menstruation!
@@g.d.graham2446. Yup.
no offense but Ellie's death in "Up" promotes the "fridged woman" trope which is misogynistic
It almost feels like they set out to make a serious movie with strong messages, then remembered “wait we work at Disney, aight back to the drawing board”
Animated scribbles B R U H
I can taste the salt in this comment.
That's how I feel about this movie and Frozen.
I don't think that's fair.
Up
Finding Nemo
Meet the Robinsons
Inside Out
Zootopia
Disney has some really strong messaged movies.
Byron Senior the only 2 there that were fully made by Disney are zootopia and meet the robinsons, all the rest are either Pixar, or Disney +Pixar. It’s usually Pixar that has the stronger messaged movies
Imagine having an idea, working out a story about a thing as personal as your relationshio to your own daughter, getting the opportunity to make it into a film, just to be replaced by some guy who rearranges all of the elements and maybe doesn't even get what you were trying to do, and then having people talk about how bad that movie was.
I'd honestly be so broken
And the fact that she was the one who directed thE PRINCE OF EGYPT. *THE PRINCE OF EGYPT.* Pixar (and/or Disney idk) should be absolutely ashamed.
@@yourmom66600 WHAT??? Are they nuts?! Who does that???
@@zhanehoyle8269 I did some digging and found out that Brenda Chapman (The lady who had the idea of “Brave”) was let go by the sleaze, John Lasseter over “creative differences”.
News broke out that John was fired for sexual harassment...take that as you will. Maybe it was for creative differences or for some other disgusting reason, I couldn’t find any proof if that was the case.
Sorry to be a downer. But understand that things can be unfair and it’s out of our control.
Stay safe and take care of yourself!
@@IJustWantToBeAKnight "Creative differences"
or Mommy issues? it's kinda suspicious that Pixar has a parent problem like with Disney links to Walt's guilt of his mother's death.
God, just watching the scene where her mother tries to pull the bow out of the fire makes me cry. When I was in high school, my dad got angry at me that I didn't keep my room neat enough and, while I was at school, "cleaned it for" me, throwing things away that weren't where they should be. And when I got home I couldn't find my sheet music book where all the songs I had ever wrote were contained. I couldn't even be angry, I just went to the basement where I slept and laid there, not talking to anyone. My dad tore apart my room trying to find it and when he couldn't, he sat next to me and told me he was so sorry he destroyed the thing that meant the most to me. It was one of two times I say my father cry.
im so sorry. that sounds devastating.
Oh my God this made me tear up
Lots of parents do it and it's awful. Parents, don't do this to your kids
Omg I just remembered because of this, once my dad angrily threw some of my stickers out cuz I wasn't doing homework and was stuck to them. And the next morning when I got bach from school, my mum had retrieved them and gave them to me and id felt so warm. Looking back now, I think it might've been the scene from brave that did that for me lol
Dang, thanks for sharing that. I had a similar thing happen to me. I never cleaned my room, so my mom did it for me. She tossed a huge stack of paper detailing worldbuilding aspects from a story I was writing. She later felt bad and literally went through probably two or three trash bags and retrieved them for me. You not only made me cry, but you made me appreciate my mom and I thank you for that.
that bow burning scene also really stuck with me. as an artist nothing would hurt me more than having my most prized possessions and passion being taken away by my own mother. its such a big slap in the face
Right? And it burns when merida repairs the tapestry for her mother at the end, but they couldn't give us one clip of elinor woodworking on a bow or some arrows for her, to show HER support of merida's interests + willingness to mend their bond?
No, instead we got a clip of them riding horses with their hair down...... yay(!) 🙄
ikr
when my sisters and i were kids and got mad at eachother, we would hide each others most prized possessions. my sister even once threw all of my things off my dresser (broke many things had too😒) when we get into trouble our mom takes away our phones because it’s our most “prized possession” or we use it the most at least.
@@isabellafortune1705 yeah, but that's not the same as destroying the things.
The do a similar scene in Coco. And it's as impactful. Although, the conclusion is different, both from Brave, and from what you suggest.
what drives me nuts about brave most was that the movie starts with these beautifully rendered vistas of scotland, vast valleys and misty mountains, and merida meets a wisp and you get so hyped for a fairytale adventure. But nope, those vistas that probably took weeks of work just show up for 5 seconds and we spend the rest of the movie going back and forth between the same 3 locations. Say what you want about Frozen 2, at the very least they actually physically go to the gorgeous backgrounds they set up :/
Also those visps do absolutely nothing in the movie. Waisted potential
yeah... but frozen 2 was terrible, its potential was destroyed because of that, something about their parents thingy, and didn't elsa already "showed herself" by letting it go?
“Say what you want about Frozen 2, at the very least they actually physically go to the gorgeous backgrounds they set up.”
Did you not read that lmao
Honestly this may be a VERY unpopular opinion frozen 2 less bad than people give it credit for, it is convoluted as hell, has too many ideas and throws them all over the place to try and see what sticks, but so did Brave, and so did princess and the frog, and so did Atlantis. But frozen=popular=worse than the other films who make the same mistakes. This is probably just me though
@@falkerwyscray9067 "Let It Go" was Elsa letting go of her fears, running away from anyone she could possibly hurt with her powers.
"Show Yourself" was Elsa embracing her powers and accepting her fate as the fifth spirit.
They may look similar, but mean completely different things. And honestly, Elsa's past catching up with her is a very natural way for the plot to go.
i like how now as we watch this video we all realize that the reason we loved Brave was the first 15 minutes and forgot about the rest of the plot
omg yeah
I never really thought about the movie in the way that this video portrays it, but now that I have thought about it, I understand. This was an hour well spent
@@shatteredstar3174 yep me to me and my mom loved it becous of the first part of the movie
You're probably oldies
cus the bear part was disney, pure disney only
the first 15mins you speak, they had makers kept in a room, then they were let out and made the rest of the plot
Turning Red really flexed on this movie's leadership team and replacement director by proving that extremely specific, personal Pixar movies directed by women about teenage girls being expected to repress themselves as they grow up, women turning into giant animals, and mother-daughter relationships can still be relatable to wide audiences, even if they are about gender
Wasnt surprised how much Turning Red reminded me of Brave - well, atleast the first act
I used to love Brave too. But seeing Turning Red, I realized how much Brave tried to play it safe and not further exploring the mother-daughter relationship. Sometimes i feel like Brave was made only to showcase Pixar's achievement in animating Merida's unkempt fiery & fuzzy long hair😅
i mean...yeah it proved it could be relatable
but it also sucked harder than brave so i don't think it's really a "flex"
@@iamtheruraljuror9257 I remember reading a comment on here that went something like this: "Males (especially writers) can't handle not being the center of attention. I can make a list of film with no female characters, but not with no males."
This could explain why we don't get too much mother and daughter relationships in media, and why turning red got a lot of hate. That and minorities were the center of attention, without them having experiencing oppression.
@@fortnitesexman your profile picture and username give me huge neckbeard vibes
Coming back to this, I think I can see, theoretically, how the bear transformation _could_ work. In this form, Eleanor is without her soft power; she can't talk, and by extension negotiate or use any kind of diplomacy. You could then put both women in a situation where they'd have to learn to appreciate each other's approach to power.
Eleanor, as a bear, learns how valuable it can be to just physically overpower an opponent or use a more direct approach to problem solving. Merida, because she can't rely on her mom to talk them out of things, has to step up and learn how to frame things to other people, the way she did with her brothers. (This could serve as the scene where she's learning to do this before she's able to master it and smooth things over between the clans at the end.)
You'd have to come up with a scenario in the woods that they encounter while they're trying to break the curse that sets that up and allows it to happen. But this would tie both ideas together, as one enables, enforces, and supports the other.
Maybe bandits stroll by and decide to rob them? Merida tries to negotiate and fails, one of them lunges towards Merida and then we see the full force of the mama bear.
I'm back two weeks later to say this could also tie in to the fact that she's mentally turning into a bear. Maybe she rips into the bandits a little too hard and merida worries that it pushed the mum over the edge...
Then mama bear turns around and gives merida big bear hug lol.
I have the perfect scenario, invasion by the English. Imo it's criminal that none of the historical context of English invasion was used in this story. Uniting the clans using marriage!? WHEN was uniting the clans ever more important!? Come on!
I can see it too now that you say this!!!
I love this - it would have been so much better oh my goodness
Boom
"gender has nothing to do with it" is so funny, thats literally the of core theme of the movie & its so obvious too! a mother with traditional old fashioned femininity learning to embrace new, unique femininity from her daughter. imagine someone coming in during toy story & being like "actually them being toys has nothing to do with anything at all" lol, like imagine that movie making any sense, with the exact same scenarios they're getting in, if they weren't toys
such a perfect analogy
Like Andrews said "I just made it about the teenager so i can have that straight throughline" which ( in my experience ) is more of a male style to approach tings. But in this "genderless" ( though obviously from female perspective ) story, we lose all the nuance that we got in the beginning of the film. Because of the personal connection and understanding of the mom daughter relationship by Chapman, the beginning was very emotionally captivating. Too bad they changed the director mid good story.
@@zangetsuu thank you :D
@@vbellanzi yep, the only scenes i remember from this movie are from the beginning! the arrow scene was so intense, to think of what could've been is sad
Honestly, this is a rare case where a body swap would have been a decent plot.
Freaky Friday already did that
O H.
M Y.
G O D.
Why didn't they do that?!
Good idea... Except, they'd have to find a way around Merida having to sleep next to her dad in her mum's body. Doesn't sound so clean cut, now does it?
@@nikkimoon1533 I mean, yeah but if they solve it in the same amount of time that was needed for the Bear plot (which was a same-day deal, I believe) they'd have been fine.
EDIT: Just rewatched it and it WAS over the course of 2 days which is weird bc the King/Dad never went to the destroyed bedroom at any point in the 24 hours Merida and Elinor were gone?? What a mess
@@nikkimoon1533 They have separate rooms
I genuinely hope that Brave can be rewritten and reproduced by Chapman. The movie had so much potential that was ruined after it strayed from her ideas, and I think it has the potential to be amazing if it was complete by her.
I mean, they'd need to basically remake the entire movie from scratch.
Then that’s better. It need not be marketed by Brave, just inspired by Brave. If the movie is done correctly most will not know the difference or that it was directly produced as a second take on Brave.
@@iantaakalla8180. There's one problem however, Disney would never go for it. Why do you think we didn't get remakes of pocahontas,hunchback or black cauldron?
@@FromRussia_With_Loveor make it into a limited series atleast it would have provided more backgrounds in the characters
or make a sequel of brave and have chapman sole credit. Like how kung fu panda 2 had Jennifer Yuh Nelson solely direct the film
After Turning Red came out, I feel like that movie did what Brave wanted to do.
Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing. That film basically nailed everything Brave tried to do. However, had that fucker John Lasseter stayed at Pixar at the time, there's no way Domee Shi would have been able to direct/have full creative control.
True on that
Brave is superior than Turning Red
Why do you have to compare this to Turning Red? And seriously, it’s Brave’s 10th anniversary this year, so it doesn’t need its reputation tarnished any farther by comparing it to a recent Pixar film.
@@hunterolaughlin because the themes are similar, and just because someone is stating their opinion on a old movie doesn't mean they're "tarnishing" it, that's fine if you like it just don't get all upset about it 😅
I COMPLETELY forgot the Mom turned into a bear like ENTIRELY.
THAT's how impactful the bear-plot was
Dude I remember watching this when I was younger but I couldn't understand what was going on because of the thick accents
Omg same! Ik there was smth weird abt this movie but I completely forgot about the bear!
I wish I could forget that
Me too and I watched this movie twice lmao
God, everything the director says makes me more and more annoyed, Its clear that he's not the one behind the amazing first 30 minutes of the film.
The two plots are more removed than Merida and her mother...
Didn’t you pay attention? One of the best parts of the first 30 mins was his idea. And bear plot was brenda’s idea. It’s not clear cut what good or bad decisions were made by who it’s just a series of choices made by executives
@@daffo595 well, that's what he claims. We don't really know. And yes, the bear plot could have been Chapman's idea, but we don't know how it would've been developed. The comedy scenes of bear Elinor being clumsy and weird, (totally out of character, btw) are exactly what male directors have been doing with Pixar movies. (I'm not saying is bad or anything, I'm saying that you can see Chapman's influence in how the female characters are real and have a real mother daughter relationship and then that simply gets lost)
@@thevoynichmanuscript810 precisely, even if the movie was gonna have the bear plot in it we stil have no idea how the original director would've gone about with it or how it would affect the plot. and the new director definitely said he changed the story to more fit HIS ideas.
"gender has nothing to do with this movie" translates to "i think femininity is a static state of being and don't understand how patriarchy uses those who fit into the 'ideal' feminine to oppress those who don't fit the mold."
Maybe, but I think it fits more along the lines of "I don't see color" except for gender
Gender has everything to do with this movie. It's a direct ripoff of the age old tale of "moody rebellious young female protagonist wants to be tough and outdoorsy but stuffy matriarch wants her to be tradfem. Enthusiastic but idiotic father behaves like a fucking child and is comedic relief but otherwise completely useless."
@@FromRussia_With_Lovenot that i disagree or haven't seen this trope before but i can't recall any specific examples right now, could you list some if you have them?
all women are oppressed whether they fit into the mold or not. the mold itself is inherently oppressive, it's the very tool for oppression that they use against us.
@@littlemoth4956 Okay so I dont know if this is necessarily what he meant, but I got a different interpretation. I think by "this film is not about gender" the director actually meant that the film is about power struggles, oppression of identity and defying societal expectations. They use gender as a tool to explore these themes, as the protagonist's oppression comes from the pressure to conform to female standards, but these struggles can be applied to millions of people across history, and therefore the film is not necessarily primarily intended as a critique of patriarchy, although it is, but it instead has a more universally applicable message, not only to women.
I want to add that since Finding Nemo, (a story, _funnily_ enough, with a much cleaner, well executed conflict between a father and son pairing) Disney/Pixar has been allergic to justified child/parent rebellion, where the child of the pairing was unequivocally in the right. Other movies that hint at this idea (especially more recent films) have it so that even when a parent or authority figure was in the wrong, it's framed as "Well, _they both_ needed to learn things about each other."
Unless I'm forgetting something. That's the vibe I've been getting for a while; like a lot of animated, family-focused movies tip toe up to that line and then don't cross it.
So it was really validating to see you point out how stupid it was that the idea that Merida was wrong and selfish was the moral they went with when all considering, she was being pretty reasonable.
I agree with this, but also want to point out that Ratatouille (at least from what I remember) has a father/son pairing where in Remy is framed as the one with the correct stance? Still though, very much a trend in Pixar’s portrayal of these dynamics
@@kiszidelirium Eh. I'd argue not so much considering how things end. I'd say that's specifically the fault of the flawed metaphor the movie is built on. I didn't get why Ratatouille bothered me until it was pointed out to me that the rats function as a metaphor for the have-nots. Poor, lower class folks who are just trying to get by.
And the have-nots are....represented by rats. Vermin. Who are outright dangerous to have in a kitchen and thus absolutely should never be in there.
Hoo boy.
So while the film portrays Remy's dream as noble to seek, it's also one that should or can never come true. So any vindication of Remy's view point over his father's is just....a bit undercut by how things end up, and just the realities of the world they live in.
encanto, turning red?
@@womp3571 Yep. Both undercut the justified rebellion by making excuses for the parental figure causing it.
@@belindaluna2067 I wouldn't diminish the parental figure's reasoning for their actions in those movies as just "excuses". Trauma can rally warp a person's worldview and actions. However, I still agree, because Encanto and Turning Red really downplay the trauma that their families suffered in favor of highlighting the parental figures'. More toward the end in Encanto's case; I think the family's trauma is highlighted fairly well for most of the movie.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying any of the abuse was justified or acceptable. Abuse never is.
Dude said "this movie has nothing to do with gender" simply because that’s not something HE wanted. It is gender focused, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
yup
Nah
Agreed.
honestly, not surprised
it's a shitty world we live in :(
A better point to make would be "It is about gender, *but* the message can be used to suit the needs of everybody." A lot of people don't realise this and just start more senseless infighting.
The really funny thing is: I clicked on this video being absolutely like "how in the world can that movie be disappointing it was great" and then realized I had completely forgotten the bear plot. My memory has deleted that entirely
right! i remember merida and that archery scene and everything else but that bear scene is completely gone...
it was by the montage scene that my brain SHUT OFF while watching the movie for the first and only time.
Yup. When you think "Brave" you think, "Oh, Will'o'wisps, and archery, and Merida has WAY too much hair and ruins dresses!
Not... BEAR!
OMG SAMEEE
YES!! EXACTLY
this guy dropped three of the best video essays based on animated movies i've seen in my life and then left
Pixar first female directed film was stolen from the original director and ruined. Bao however, another film about smothering mothers (directed by a woman!) was amazing and in the like 10 minutes the film ran for I was brought to tears. Pixar could make good films they've shown that, but they need to let directors be creative and tell the stories they have to tell, woman man or otherwise.
Bao never fails to make me sob
Women or man or otherwise? What like a Goat or something? lol
@@HushtheMagNon-binary, probably.
@@HushtheMag nonbinary.
"We're going to write a story about traditional female gender roles in a film directed by a man, but it's not actually about gender, and basically the female protagonist who wanted to break gender norms learns that she was wrong in doing so."
Actually we will start off with a female director, and then we will replace her, throwing the whole story off balance
@@honda-akari it's not that it ended up being a male director, it's that it happened to be a male director that said the story wasn't about gender when it was set up to be that way in the opening scenes. And yes, perhaps in the medieval times breaking out of gender norms would be looked down upon, so in the context of a story it's perhaps fine. Except that the story wasn't really allowed to explore those gender norms or break them. It's fine to be set in medieval times when there's gender norms that inhibit the characters, but when gender is seemingly made the focus in the opening scenes and then abandoned later, it leaves us with no satisfying conclusion other than "yay! she's not getting married. And now her mom wears her hair loose, apparently." Point is, her "wanting to be free" can be looked down upon by the characters, but that's going to need a conclusion that lives up to its opening. In the end, we don't get a satisfying conclusion to the story that was presented. Like eliquorice was saying in the video, we get two different plots that are mushed together and likewise, two different inciting incidents. In the bear plot, the inciting incident is finding the witch and giving Eleanor the potion spell thing, the conflict being to reverse being a bear. In the other plot, the inciting incident is that all the clans accepted the marriage proposal, so now there's conflict surrounding who's going to marry Merida, if anyone. The latter inciting incident occurs first, and goes with everything we've been seeing up to this point. And with my opinion being of the same mind as eliquorice's, that this marriage plot with it's daughter-mother relationship is more interesting, we should have gotten some exploration of their dynamic with the society that is imposing these expectations upon them, especially Merida to marry one of the three sons.
Thus, it's likely that breaking out of the gender norms established to be present in the medieval times in this movie would be looked down upon by the characters, but we did not get a thorough if any exploration of that in the film.
Not wrong in learning she was wrong trying to break gender norms. Wrong in that she believed she didn't need to listen to anything her mother said, because her mother didn't understand her. Her mother was wrong too, and didn't listen either. This was a breakdown in communication and understanding. She could have broken down the walls between who she wanted to be and who society would accept if she had the help and support of her mother, rather than the condemnation of how she acted versus how society expected her to act.
i never felt so devoted to a comment
Merida's way of doing away with marriage was too brash. And she actually did to others what she reproached to her mother. They didn't take her wants/feelings into consideration. So she was wrong in the way she did it, but not for what she wanted... or at least that's how I see it.
Disney be like : "Damn this is getting serious. Lets add animals."
this is so funny oh my god
This actually happens lmao
You on the board or something??
You made my day roflmao
bc the kids will love it, of course
THIS IS THE BEST COMMENT HAHAHAHA
If Disney is going to keep on doing remakes, they need to do Brave. This could have been a movie with a powerful message to many young girls about gender norms and accepting themselves when they don’t fit the standard. The director had her idea stolen and twisted into misogynistic bullshit and an unrelated bear plot. If they do remake it though scrap the bear plot and keep it as an animation. Brave deserved so much better.
Actually, I hope they will not redo Brave. There has not been one justifiable Disney remake. Not even Cinderella, the best of the remakes, added much. Brave may be the easiest to remake because its plot was messed up, and nicely adapt the original story of Brave, but I bet they will mess that up in addition to everything else.
i liked mogli@@iantaakalla8180
Bro, if they remake Brave, it will be even worse. Trust me, they can do that
I just watched Turning Red and watching the behind the scenes video on it. The team behind this was all women that didn't have the cringe of High Guardian Spice and it shows. They made a great, natural movie. I think this movie is the mother-daughter movie that Brenda Chapman was going for. It took Disney 10 years to get it right and to give them more freedom. I found it funny it took another red-headed girl and her furry mother to set it right this time.
My boyfriend got mad when I made a similar claim about Encanto being a reworked version of The Good Dinosaur. "Making your mark" and getting a door are very close in symbolism as a coming of age thing. Only it makes sense in Encanto. That movie has its own set of problems, but it makes a bit more sense.
you REALLY compare fucking HIGH GUARDIAN SPICE with Turning red???? are you fucking serious sir. i just cant express enough how wrong that comparison is. And it is because both film were directed by a female team???? is that what it is about? another gender bias?
not everything directed by a woman is gonna turn out shit omg
Turning Red was basically just Brave's bear plot done right.
@@colinm4055 That's far from the truth dude. The reason why Brave failed was because it focused on the bear plot, while Turning Red instead focused on the relationship between the mother and daughter and that made it successful in my book.
@@JoNarDLoLz Yea but Turning Red made the whole thing work while Brave completely messes up after the bear part.
You can sum up everything wrong with this movie with one line:
"MuM, yOu'Re A bEaR!"
"insert laugh track and scene change music here"
@@blackhawk4ful - mom makes dumbfounded look and eye contact with camera as it zooms in + boing and crash and boom sound effects
No,
"tHiS iS hIgHly iRrEgUlAr!"
This
Or the seinfield theme
Pixar: Look! It’s our first female protagonist!
Also Pixar: We can not express enough that gender has nothing to do with this movie.
😐
What about every other disney princess tho...
@@juliettefrost8570 Now, that's not pixar, is it?
@@juliettefrost8570 You realize you said "Disney" while talking about Pixar...
@@juliettefrost8570 Sadly, Disney and Pixar arent the same. If they were youd be correct.
You, probally are one of the people that think shrek is made by Disney.
When I watched Brave when I was little I was legit interested in the first half of the movie with the Merida-mother-society plot. Then when the mother turns into a bear and it continues into the second half of the movie I was genuinely bored. I seriously wanted to see more of the conflicts involving the mother and Merida in the beginning, not the conflict involving the mother turning into a bear.
And thats a problematic in the second half of the film 💀💀🥺🤦🏿♂️
This video lives rent free in my head- has anyone written a fanfic yet that opts to live up to the mother-daughter plot that they originally intended?
Might check Ao3?
"i accidentally hit puberty between recording sessions" has to be the best creator's note i have ever seen
Timestamp?
@@anzengg 1:40
5:43 so I don’t lose my spot after I click the timestamp
I went into this thinking “but I like brave!” Then I realized that all of those moments I remembered fondly were from the beginning.
I feel you, man!
@Ocean Blue More power to you! I'm happy that you can enjoy something even when I don't.
That's EXACTLY what I though 😅😆
same
LITERALLY ME
Elinor becoming a bear was the biggest plot twist for me. It wasn’t hinted at all in the trailer or in any of the promos during at that time. It was a huge “WTF” moment for me when I saw it in the theatre.
Elinor pre-transformation vs after feels like two different films. I just rewatched it after randomly thinking about it tonight (for the first time in 10+ years), but there’s a reason why people don’t really revisit it as much as other Disney films.
When I first watched this movie when I was younger it has struck a cord with me. This dynamic is the same thing I felt with my parents, and it’s such a shame that they had to redirect the story line and give it to the “Boys Club,” pretending girls/women don’t struggle with these societal expectations.
To summarize in a few words: Brave was doing well until a man took over and ruined it
Hhhhm, pretty sure the bear plot came from the woman but the mother- daughter conflict came from the man.
Didn't we watched the same video?
@@alexanderi1183 No it was the other way round. did YOU watch it? Or even read other comments?
@@alexanderi1183 what tf are you talking about? Lol
@@yoheimercenary9320 Lmao
A sexist man, yes.
The thing that bothers me the most about this movie is the marketing. The trailers, poster, and title all implied this epic adventure with a badass heroine, which as a young girl I was really excited for. Also, nobody knew what the central plot was gonna be, apart from Merida not wanting to get married. All we got were the wisps in this mysterious forest...
And then the movie came out and it was about Merida turning her mother into a bear. Remember how cool she looked with her bow and arrows? It doesn't affect the plot that much. A princess who's a fighter? More like a rebellious teen. Adventure? Nah, it's all about _emotions_ and _relationships._ And of course you can make a great story with those, but why would they show something so different in the trailers?
i completely agree. i remember hearing about the movie and getting excited thinking itd be about the boys who got there to marry merida going with her on an adventure to save the kingdom or whatever from a greater evil because none of them were actually interested in marrying her for one reason or another and that gave them a connection they never had before and yet longed for. as basic as it might sound, like the generic d&d party type of story we still see all the time in fiction, i still think id have enjoyed it more that way, because at least itd have cool action scenes and friendship growing from somewhere unexpected and maybe i could respect meridas motivations for once. i remember coming out of the cinema literally with nothing to say about the movie, so me and my mom just grabbed something to eat and went home talking solely about the food. it was honestly the most boring cinema experience of my life, and i even dared to watch a generic teen romance from an incredibly forgettable book once.
and sorry about such a long and pointless monologue, but once i started watching it i really wanted to see merida and the guys saving the kingdom - fixing everything for their families after disappointing them with their teenage stubbornness, earning their trust back by proving they could make something good out of their unconventional ways and therefore teaching them that blindly following limitating roles doesnt help when there are actual threats on their way. its also a shame that those... forest spirits or whatever ended up being nothing more than very convenient plot devices too. i had my hopes up for a storyline filled with cool and mysterious forest spiritualistic magic the second i saw them, but ended up utterly disappointed like with almost the entirety of this film.
@@arthurricciardi9772 Sounds similar to the version I envision. Especially the Merida and the boys going on an adventure, learning to understand and respect each other, and ending up as close friends.
Exactly! It seemed like it was going to be a completely different movie. My grandparents took me and my cousins to see it when it came out and we were so excited, but once it was over all of us were just like huh.... well that was a waste of time.
Can You Hear It?
It's the Sound of my Hands Clapping for this Comment.
@@ThePervinca99 Thanks!
I remember seeing a trailer and going to see it in theaters because "scottish bow girl on horse" looked really fun and interesting. With the will o' wisps, I expected a story exploring celtic folklore. Then I saw this thing in theaters and I came out of it unsatisfied. I didn't know anything about the bear plot. It's like the people who put the trailer together knew it was a bad plot thread and decided to omit it to lure in an audience.
If it's any consolation, the film Wolfwalkers gave us the film Brave was trying to be: a story with Celtic lore, a free spirited red headed girl trying to save her mother, magical elements, and animal characters. I think what made Wolfwalkers work, was the fact it was made by actual Irish filmmakers, as opposed to Pixar producers who are most likely not familiar with Celtic heritage, if fact, I felt the producers of Brave went to a local Renaissance faire, and that became inspiration for Brave, which is a real shame, Pixar took away Brenda's film, which if made could have been on par with the Secret of the Kells.
There is no possible way brave could have been on par with secret of the kells. The story of the secret of the kells WAS celtic folklore. The story of brave is the mother daughter relationship. Brave does not need to have any folklore in it as folklore is not relevant to the story despite the inclusion of will o wisps.
THEY WENT TO A REN FAIR FOR INSPIRATION 😭
I hate how the director said gender had nothing to do with brave. The whole first plot is about gender and breaking gender norms and being yourself. Being able to be masculine and feminine, being who you want to be.
The point of the first plot is
Merida can’t chose her path not because she is a royal but because she’s a princess
So HOW IS IT NOT ABOUT GENDER
@Philip Gregory a major part of the story is Merida’s character embracing both masculinity and feminist. And the queen who had a different definition of what it means to be a woman. And no, if Merida was a guy the story would be very different. Women didn’t compete for the hand of men in the olden days. Men didn’t have to wear dresses. Did we not watch the same film?
@Philip Gregory if Merida was a boy then the story would be very different?
@Philip Gregory
So if Merida was a boy, then she would be a prize for girls to compete for in an archery competition? She would be forced to wear an uncomfortable dress and hide her hair? And she would be told that she shouldn't have a bow because princesses shouldn't have weapons?
@Philip Gregory
You're missing the point about the expectations placed on women vs the expectations placed on men. Obviously they are not the same. Sure, you could completely change the entire narrative of the movie to make it about the stifling expectations placed on a young prince, but saying that gender has nothing to do with the story would be wrong.
Merida would not be chastised for using a bow if she were a boy, because the society Merida lives in enforces the rule that boys use weapons and girls do not. This is a rule that would not affect a boy.
But just because you change Merida's gender and the societal demands placed on her, that doesn't mean they don't exist, they would just shift from expectations for a girl to expectations for a boy. Even if massive changes to the story were made to accommodate Merida being a boy, those expectations would still exist and be relevant to the story.
There would certainly be other rules placed on Merida if she were a boy. Maybe something like "boys are not allowed to knit" because it is seen as too unmanly.
Basically, a rule that prevents you from practicing a hobby that you like because of your gender is a stupid rule. That was kind of what the movie Brave was about.
I feel like a part of the reason of this awful derailment was "But we need a fantasy plot twist!" Except there are SO many things they could do that would allow both the mother And Merida can participate in. Hell, Scotland has a very good one in their belief of the fey, and how FRIGGEN TERRIFYING those lil guys can actually be. To survive the Fey, you need to be brave and cunning (like Merida) , but also need to know grace, the importance of words, and the rules of hospitality (seriously, its a thing) which the mom knows best. It would have been the perfect fantastical backdrop to have these two people to explore each others' strengths.
please,,, I beg you,,, write this.
We** beg you
I need this in my life!!
Write it pls
oh wow... I.. Have never written a fanfiction before... Maybe it's time I started.
i love how they handled femininity and womanhood in the movie and that they made it clear that Merida still fully identified as female. anyone suggesting that she wants to be a boy for liking arbitrarily male-coated activities is not only misogynistic, but also transphobic, cause such a statement still holds on to an extremely narrow, externally imposed view of femininity and tries to take control over someone's identity just based on how they act and what they do rather than taking their word. i think the movie handles the subject really well and it's a healthy message to give to kids that they define themselves rather than they have to act a certain way to be defined a certain way, or they have to like certain things to be viewed in a way they feel comfortable with.
it's also nice that the father nourishes Merida's interests, even though he's complaisant in the marriage plot even as he sees how uncomfortable she is.
watching the movie felt so jarring and i have forgotten most of the bear curse part. i think there were some good moments there, but it all felt so disjointed.
Heavy on the misogynistic and transphobic part. It's really important to make the distinction between women who act in a way that society views as masculine and how they're still fully women, and trans men, who aren't girls who like doing boy things and are therefore boys.
or how about drop the trans crap cause its made terms to confuse everyone@@Andreaa_-_
Bingo!
Cis girl who likes dolls= still a girl
Cis girl who likes sports = still a girl
Trans girl who likes dolls = still a girl
Trans girl who likes sports = still a girl
I've run into too many transphobes who try to justify themselves with stuff like 'oh well maybe the trans girl isn't trans and she just likes girly stuff?' completely ignoring that we actually do understand the separation of gender identity and societal expectations of genders (it's also rich hearing stuff like this from them with how quick they are to make fun of men by calling them women for doing 'girly' things). It's not liking dolls that makes a boy trans, it's just the fact that she's trans 🤣
And I love Brave for this because, I think now more than ever, it's important to make it clear that people need to explore. They need to figure things out for themselves. We NEED to stop letting society tell us how to act. There isn't one way to be any gender, and liking certain toys or activities has about as much impact on gender as someone farting has on the sun burning bright. If you're a man and you like nail polish but aren't questioning your gender, paint your nails king. If you're a trans woman and you like sports, go watch and play em queen. Learn about yourself and become more comfortable with who you are. If it turns out you're trans, cool. If it turns out you're definitely cis, cool. Either way, you know yourself better and won't let other people dictate what you should like 🥰 I'm still salty over the Ms Green situation because her boots were so cute but Mars completely missed the point of feminism (but I guess it's hard to research while you're trying to distract from slavery allegations) and I fear for Lottie LaBouf's character when Disney inevitably makes a live action Princess and the Frog movie. She was so unapologetically feminine whereas Tiana was a bit less so but they're both still girls and they were both amazing friends and characters. Almost like wearing dresses or heels doesn't make you less of a person -_-
Fr I hate when people call people lgbtq just because of how they act
@@Dora-xi5ob same in the sense that i hate people insisting something IS queer, when only reenforcing stereotypes. but when it comes to people just projecting onto characters cause they want to see themselves represented i dont see the harm in it.
To be honest I don’t have a problem with the bear plot at it’s core, it’s a way of turning an ordinary story (of the relationship between mother and daughter) and giving it a new element. I did really like the moment when Merida sees her mother as a bear, and when she realises through her fear what she had done and what she had lost she felt so guilty. The way the bow burning scene feels like the last straw of the relationship, she does something extreme and she feels the consequences heavily. Like a form of grief. I saw this in theatres when I was very young and her mother as a bear made me cry. The goofy bear antics are just disappointing and it’s really a shame for such a beautiful movie
It's not a new element though... A person turning into an animal has been done so many times.
maybe this is the one disney film that actually could benefit from a remake
Yes, movies with potential like this should have a chance for a better ending
@@Edd_Martinez true but the problem is that it also has the chance to go completely wrong.
Probably but nOT A LIVE ONE PLEASE
666th like
@@mariacastillo4121 Well, it went already, so why not lol
So. Let me get this straight. They took a story about womanhood and women's struggles and got a man to direct and change it. Got it
Like how Kathleen Kennedy got Star Wars right.
yeah it was almost perfect.
The result: It turned into shit
The plot was already good, until *MOM TURNED INTO A BEAR SHIT*
@@ChrisIsAPotato *ITS ALWAYS A FUCKING BEAR*
See I always saw the bear plot as Elenor learning that Meridas version of power and feminity is just as valid as her. I still take issue with Merida blaming herself the whole time tho.
Your ideas to fix Brave are a lot better than mine. My idea was for Mordeau to show up and lead the jilted clans to war so Merida and Elenore work together to stop him. The catch being their roles are reversed: Merida the fighter has to manage peace talks while Elenore the diplomate has to engage in guerilla combat.
Sounds like an AU fanfic, I love it
This really shows how female directors in places like Pixar and Disney are treated. She had a brilliant idea but she was thrown out because of the views she put in the story and how it was, and then they replaced her with someone who says how the story isn't about females at all and is genderless. It's truly horrible.
god everytime he would say "females" like that it makes me cringe. like, just say women
that's why i love frozen so much. i don't care what people say about frozen but jennifer lee wrote anna and elsa so beautifully. they are both flawed and real characters.
If you like the original Frozen, then power to you. But I think both films had potential to be so much more!
But as much as I don’t want to say it, I dislike Brave even less than Frozen 1.
Then again, maybe that’s just because of how lively they made the Medieval Scottish backgrounds, but then again, while I find the animation in Brave to be actually pretty great, I find it to be TOO good. Like, it’s one of those Disney films that work so hard on their animation that they have a disgracefully large amount of wasted potential with their writing by just doing whatever sexist crap they want!
Frozen 1 has okay animation because even though its backgrounds (although I am a fan of the design of Elsa’s ice palace) and undersized amount of adventure hold it back from its full potential, one thing I can give the movie credit for is that it does have amazing rendering.
@@es-lb4mw true, I'm not saying it's *incorrect* to refer to men as males or women as females. but like you said it's usually in a scientific context. so its just weirdly clinical for use in casual discussion.
yeah imagine saying "guys" and "females" in the same sort of context. it doesn't fit and it sounds like something an pussy-depraved incel would say 😳
I can’t believe Disney fired the first director for this film. They fired the person who directed Prince of Egypt!!!
Yeah what a waste it is, we missed the opportunity to get another great film from Pixar, from the people working for this, and from the director
Not to mention Prince of Egypt was a masterpiece
@@petscopkid yes that was implied
That film was iconic
WHAT
as a scot i strangely enjoyed the story of brave, only things i disliked was the fall back on a mystacle element to push the plot and weirdly when a man speaks dòric(a dialect of scots) they seem to speed him up. but yeah i really love your input on the movie. it really gives insight about what brave could have been and what it did right rather than certain "productions" that call it bad a million times then end the video.
As a young teen, I actually didn't mind much about the bear plot. I only watched movies for enjoyment instead of taking in any messages in it. But I got to say, even as a casual audience, I was VERY peeved at the way the curse broke. There's no beautiful symbolism in it, no poetic in its ending. As lacking in education about good literature as I was, I still could feel it when a story is off.
Merida was tasked to mend the broken bond before the dawn, she came to a quick conclusion of the tarp she ripped off to challenge her mother's authority. After all the bear's plot, I even forgot about the tarp. The way it's built up so Merida patched the tapestry back and put it over her bear mom to break the curse is... Stupid. It's so vague at its best and I don't see the point in it. Ofc if the tapestry was fixed with BOTH of them fixing it while communicating their difference, it would work much better. The problem with that is, her mom is a bear and can't communicate with her. If they add more nuances or even details about her mom's power throughout the film and Merida came to an enlightenment of her mother's love for her as she fixed the symbol of her mom's soft power, I would like it more! Because that means, emotionally, they're already reconnected and the curse broke because of that, not because of the tapestry.
Especially with the weird dark bear being as the previous cursed person who also destroyed the symbol of his family in a stone carving (which he can't fix, because stone breaks and won't mend back). It made me question the rule of the curses, as I came from a country where such things (curses) are pretty common.
This is also the same in Frozen. I love that movie and the estranged sisters' struggle to reconnect but the ending could be done better. Once Anna returned back from being frozen and Olaf said "An act of a True Love will thaw a frozen heart." Elsa shouldn't suppose to immediately connect love with her power. She's a princess isolated for _years_ and distant to most people. I won't deny that she knows love better than Anna who wants to marry a man she just met, but Elsa won't know much about it either.
Rather than immediately providing them with immediate resolve of the problem at hands, the movie should have shown Elsa reluctantly staying in Arendelle for Anna and finished Hans properly to win back the people's trust and apologize.
Imagine what a beautiful sight would it be if the story kept going and focused for just THREE minutes of montage of Elsa trying her best to salvage the situation in Arendelle and then breaking down while giving up but Anna held her up. Imagine if Elsa, while taking care of the townspeople stuck in 'eternal' winter, realized that it hurts her to see people in misery and realize she loved her kingdom and the people (whom she had never met nor take care before), how she WANTS to keep the legacy her father left to her- and then, because of her realization of love and desire to make Arendelle better again, the snow thawed and spring slowly emerged again?
The dialogue of "An act of true love can thaw a frozen heart" came back to her and she tried to channel that love more into her power. THAT would have shown her development not only as a sister and as a traumatized young woman, but as a QUEEN of a kingdom!
Like in Encanto, it's done right because the characters were given a time at the end to accept their new changes, to look at each other and apologize, they also had the chance to learn more about each other without the use of their powers. So when EVERYTHING goes back to how it was before at the end of the movie, you don't feel miffed about it. They paid for the fall first before it turned back to normal. It becomes smoother and it's SO great to see. And the symbolism at the end is so GREAT. The 'blacksheep' of the family is not actually a black sheep, she's just a bit special amongst her family - of course if I elaborate more on that it will go even longer.
My point is, it hurts me to see that many movies don't give their characters more chance to learn what they are and their relationships or the boosting scene for the ending to work.
But the tapestry didn't help break the spell. When Merida saw that her mother remained a bear she started to apologize for everything she had done and said that she loved her mother and after that we see that Elinor is back.
About the black bear, I think the broken stone and torn tapestry are simply symbolism of broken bonds. The real solution is not to mend objects, but to mend family bonds. I guess he should have not started a war against his brothers or stopped before it was too late, but he wanted power.
They fired the woman
who directed *PRINCE OF EGYPT*
for a guy with pretty sub par movies under his belt
'sighs' thanks John Lasseter
Pretty sure that it was Jon lasseter who fired her
and the hunchback of notre dame
This is the most male experience ever....society gives you competence even if you don't have it
@@QueenBee-pb6bt Uh, no it doesn't :P Classic lefty female bullshit 'men are given everything'. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Novarcharesk You sound like a complete knuckle-headed incel. You just played into your own stereotype. Did you even watch the video? Or are you just responding to people to "own the Emilys." Don't even bother responding with a half assed response.
This was the last movie I saw with my mom. She was in the hospital and Brave was on the TV in her room. She jokingly said that rebel girl was just like me. Of course, I told her she was just like that strict mom. She fell asleep before Elinor became a bear and woke up near the end to see mother and daughter happily united. My mother said that was just like us. I finally got a sense of acceptance from my mother. My mom was 89 and I was 69 at the time.
BTW I'm glad my mom didn't see that bear plot line. She would not have been amused!
I’m sorry but you are old.
I’m so sorry tho
That is so sweet!
Why are you sorry that I'm old? Old is not bad at all. Of course, I'm healthy and strong at 74 and enjoying my life even though I'm now a widow. My husband didn't get to become old, but we had a good life together.
Someday you will be old and I hope no one brushes you off because of your age. God bless you.
@@annarodriguez9868 I’m sorry cause
1. Your mom was in the hospital, gosh it’s hard seeing your loved ones there (personal experience)
2. I’m sorry about your husband
@@a_gal.in.your.basement I think I misunderstood what you meant and I'm sorry about that.
It is hard losing our loved ones and hard seeing them suffer, but love gets stronger in those times and hopefully it makes us stronger so we can go on.
The love they gave us doesn't go away and neither do the memories and things we learned from them.
God bless you for your sympathy and kindness.
Okay so I think the bear plot could have worked.
Mother becomes a bear, and it's not just like oh no she's a monster now let's fix it! I think that the bear represents how Elinor is now the thing that is nothing of what she was before. She is now disliked in society, lost her power, lost everything about herself. A bear is a ravenous, evil, ill-tempered, smelly thing, which is the exact opposite of what Elinor has been and what she takes pride about. I think that there is also some symbolism in her constantly wearing the crown as a bear; she is trying to hold onto the throne that she has built for herself with her soft power and influence, and obviously that is not possible if you just look down and see she is a big fat bear.
So this bear plot COULD have actually taken this ideological conflict plot and made a lot out of it, where Elinor would learn to accept that being not some perfect thing society loves is okay, and Merida learns the value of Elinor's style when she is gone and the kingdom goes into disarray. Maybe this movie could have brought up some of the topics barbie brought up, and we could see that Elinor's oppresiveness was because of her own insecurity or whatevs, and I think that strand of background would have made everything more powerful. Like the little strand of gray in her hair is that example of how she is kind of not perfect, she is deteriorating as much as she tries to maintain that image to society and to herself. And when she lets the hair loose at the end, it would be symbolic of how she is finally accepting herself, maybe her could have been more gray or whatever.
Of course that didn't happen, and the movie didn't integrate its two plots well, and it made the bear plot too shallow, but still I don't think the bear plot is inherently dumb. Also, the bear plot makes the movie far-reaching for the children as they can watch something simply entertaining while also seeing the advanced symbolism between the mom and daughter.
I think that's why turning red was so special, and the fact that grown men were complaining that it was "not relatable" while movies about fucking dinosaurs, toys, monsters, cars, etc. were more relatable than one about a human teenage girl was telling. It's a unique flavor of revolting how much society hates anything to do with women.
but they are male cars, toys and dinossaurs and the male experience is universal /s
That’s a pretty bad argument since inanimate objects can be way more universal than just tying a character down to be a human male or female
@@user-x7dc2pq7n yeah i definitely agree. this was meant more of a gut feeling than an actual argument
imagine after the mom turns back to a human and she says "nah btch you still gotta marry"
Somebody tell me why I read that in a Scottish accent
@@derekstonez299 🤧 accent thicker than old butter
*I would lose my absolute shit dying*
And Merida be like: >:(
Time to run away forever then. Live off the land in the deep woods if you have to, or seek asylum in another kingdom.
I will forever mourn the film Brenda Chapman was trying to make. She spoke at my school after the film came out and, though she couldn't say much, you could tell she was so defeated and disappointed with the final product. A darker, more emotional fantasy story would have been amazing, instead we have this disjointed mess.
she should write a book with eerily similar characters.
It was about her and her daughter and she got kicked out because of "creative differences" regarding HER story. Somebody thought they could tell it better. And then the new director had the audacity to say he fixed it by reducing the mother's part and to say a plot about marriage, societal restrictions and a mother-daughter relationship has nothing to do with femininity. It's infuriating even to me, can't imagine how she must have felt. Especially if the end product was very different.
Even with the bear it could have been good if the focus was equally on both characters, with logical character arcs that played off of each other.
P.s. The "fixer" guy seems super arrogant and disrespectful. No wonder he can finish a project quickly if he doesn't care about the original vision... or quality storytelling.
@@Evija3000 same
@@Evija3000 It's ironic that the "fixer" director guy thought he could tell a story about a mother and a daughter better than Brenda herself. He's neither a mother nor a daughter, why did he feel entitled to knowing what was important between that dynamic?? What issues were important in that situation?
I also saw somewhere that they tried to change the theme to father-daughter but thankfully they went back to the original theme.
I was trying to figure out why people hated the movie so much when i loved it, and its because i forgot about the bear plot. I only remembered the beginning.
I truly wish they had kept the original director instead of caving to whatever pressure had her removed.
It must really suck for her seeing her story stolen out from under her and turned into a piece of garbage.
The mother bear brother bear comparison really got me. I will agree w you on that one. The turning someone into a bear to teach them a lesson was already done
Elinor trying to save Merida’s bow from the fire was actually very surprising to me when I first saw it because it’s basically the first real portrayal of a 3 dimensional person by Disney, a mother no less. Movies either paint the protagonist’s mother out to be a complete monster or a kind soul but, like a real person, Elinor is both.
Then they made her a *bear*
‼️If I was writing this movie. Instead of the mother turning into the bear as the main focus. That would just be totally scrapped. I feel like the movie going one of two ways would make this better. Either number one Merida runs away. Thinking life will be better away from the Castle living in total freedom. And she gets into major trouble. Maybe she falls in with a group of bandits living in the woods and it turns out they're really terrible people and just as physically talented if not more physically talented than her. And they try to hold her hostage or something doesn't really matter and she's forced to use her mother's soft power to manipulate them into letting her go or not murdering innocent people. Whatever. And that's when she realizes her mother's soft power is just as good as physical power even better in certain cases. And she returns home having learned a lesson. The mother in the meantime while Merida is gone is frantic missing her daughter and blaming herself and worrying about Merida. When she finally figures out where Merida is she takes a page from Merida's book and gathers up an army or group to try to rescue Merida using physical power. In the end both mother and daughter learn a little bit about each other and understand that both ways are valid ways. Number two. The mother is somehow put out of commission because of merida. Perhaps the mother is kidnapped trying to get a new bow for Merida. And Merida has to step up and try to keep control of the Kingdom by using her mother's soft power while trying to figure out where her mother is. In the meantime the mother realizes her soft power isn't going to work on these people who have no respect for her she realizes the only thing they understand and respect is physical power. So she takes a page from Meredith's playbook and has to use physical power to escape. Having to take out the bandits one by one. And in the end she uses a bow. Specifically the bow she went to get for Merida. In the end they both learned that both ways are valid and they understand each other a little better. I was really disappointed by this movie. I think the mother daughter angle was very interesting because you can tell they both loved each other they just didn't understand each other. And turning the mother into a bear is literally the laziest and worst way they could get them to understand each other. I came up with both of these plots in less than 3 minutes. And either one would have been much better than the stupid bear transformation.
“I SHIT YOU NOT, SHE TURNS INTO A BEAR! IT’S THE FUNNIEST SHIT I’VE EVER SEEN!”
@@WhitneyDahlin YOU ARE SO TALENTED AND CREATIVE. YES AND YES IMA SCREENSHOT THIS OMG
@@WhitneyDahlin YES, omg this is AMAZING!! Maybe you should work at pixar lol
@@WhitneyDahlin These are great. Some other ideas (less developed but that came to mind) I considered were:
-The suitors don't want the marriage either and are in a similar spot to Merida, only they are less assertive in the presence of an audience which is why merida believes they want it. They are trying to lose but more reasonably, taking quick shots and acting more of a fake pride. Merida is only going to get that truth with some level of verbal probing of sorts since the 3 won't break their facades otherwise. Would likely involve more rounds of whatever challenges. Potentially merida attempting to hide within the castle and occasionally getting 'near caught' by the 3 who clearly aren't trying to find her which is her clue to get admission they don't want in either. They all with her lead need to fight against the turmoil that may lead to war and be diplomatic to get the clans to agree the marriage is not necessary. If there has to be 2 lessons, let it be diversity of power is important and learning/working with your audience.
--The confrontation after Merida wins is either not in her room(or some other spot) or her mother leaves first so she locks herself in after realizing she wouldn't be given the win despite objectively winning. Any way out has someone there so she can't avoid a confrontation. Even if she attempts to fix the bow she can't fight her way out of that one. Potentially attempt to escape/brute force but fail and potentially now be hiding somewhere else which should either be significantly more or less limiting (Ex. any sort of dungeons or a cellar or that hall her mother was coaching speech from) . Here realizing that she can distance herself from the entrance to give enough time to try and reason her way into a slightly better situation and work from there. This is the first taste of the soft power working. Maybe says the marriage is not as bad, twists the issue to something more of 'my issue is merely lack of notice, let us push this back slightly so that a more grand/better event can happen', 'one challenge for my hand is an insult, make it 3', 'A good archer does not make a good king, lets see what these 3 have to offer besides that' etc. The point here is to buy time (and make a more interesting scene) , and it shows she was listening to her mother a little, and makes up the time that bear plot took. Her mother maybe doesn't see this event, maybe even what Merida was hoping for. But her mother hears the aftermath from the slightly improved tension levels of the other clans. Noted but not really acted on yet. Merida no longer hiding but avoiding her mother where possible and realizing she has to take more control of the events to do as such.
This makes me realise that I only watched Brave because I liked Merida’s hair.
I only watched it because I like the people’s Scottish accents...
@@blenderbunny3353 You like our accents?
Louise Msp I don’t think that there is anyone on earth who doesn’t like Scottish accents lol
Louise Msp i love scottish accents lmao, i don’t think there’s anyone who doesn’t
Louise Msp love them!?
I just saw this essay today and the only thing I could think of it’s the contrast that Pixar has made with the mother-daughter relationship in Turning Red, and how it effectively communicates everything Brave could have been, with this female perspective on the story. With a female director and not afraid to touch on womanhood, and even having the turning into a bear/red panda plot
Watching this fantastic video again after Pixar’s newest, Turning Red, really shows how far they’ve grown as a studio and actually letting a mother daughter conflict/story be about femininity through and throughout, not a derailed mess that was turned into something genderless with the removal of the lead director, who wanted to tell a personal story. A literal 10yr difference (2012-2022) and a rework of the studios leadership and trusting artists of all kinds to make their vision, shows that the soul and core of a project is the most important thing, period.
I would have loved if her spell did something different. Perhaps her wish causes the suitors to be kidnapped by fairies or some other creatures and she feels awful and has to fight her way to save them all. As she collects each one, they talk and she realizes they didnt even want to be married either, leading to the final speech at the end where after bonding with the guys, she gives them all the autonomy to choss their own fates.
Maybe this would be a dumb addition but she could've wished for the boys to go away, but the wish gets rid of ALL the men of the villiage and her and her mother have to venture out to save them. This way you still get the scenes of the mom being prissy in the wild, while merida gets to show off her survival and fighting skills which gains her mom's respect.
Omg the second would’ve been an AMAZING PLOT IDEA and totally fits with Celtic and Irish fairytale stories!!
THIS
They turned into the wisps that leads Merida to how to turn them back into humans!!! My initial thought to this, haha
Would have preferred either of these plots over the original.
Someone should hire you! :0
Anne Beguiness
Yes! It would bring the wisps back to relevancy and give an explanation to what they are, because in the movie, the wisps are never explained and they’re just sort of *there.* However, if it was revealed that the wisps are actually real people, I feel like it would be so much more interesting.
The witch/magical elements could still be incorporated through this and would allow for the stupid bear plot to be abolished. Also, the 4 kings subplot could still be incorporated, adding some much needed depth and history, but this time, it could do with actual Scottish folklore and legends.
Also, if people in the kingdom were being turned into wisps, it would allow the society to stay relevant to the plot. Although, a plot centered around the kingdom being turned into wisps has the same pitfalls a lot of stories have, (i.e. it’s predictable, it’s contrived, and it becomes a standard “rescue the world” story,) so it really shouldn’t be a big/important plot point. Maybe a few people are turned into wisps and that is used as a gateway to the main plot, but it really shouldn’t be more than that. As the guy touched upon, the main conflict should involve Merida, her mom, and the society, and a “rescue the world” plot only really involves Merida and maybe society. Her mother would be wholly excluded.
Also, I would have loved to see more of the Scottish landscape as it was teased in the beginning. Merida’s climbing scene was gorgeous, but afterwards, we just never got to see much of it again.
Anyway, these are just my thoughts. (They’re pretty vague tbh, but alas.)
i never realized how brilliant this film could have been if they pulled the whole “mum turning into a bear” part out.
would it be cool if at the end merida and the queen (not transformed) team up to kill the bad bear and queen is like yeah your archery is cool too, i'll stick to my diplomacy and tapestry making though. and everyone gets to live the way they want?
i wouldve liked that more than the pos we got
@@tinseltina The typical Princess in these stories has been living off the taxes of a million peasants, and lived in the greatest luxury and security available in all her country, but then she doesn't want to do her royal duty and forge alliances through marriages so those million peasants will have a safer prospect for their lives because forged alliances actually avert wars and scare off some of the rivaling invaders? Invaders who just want to pretty much act like mini-Vikings to pillage the lands and kidnap each woman to some far off land to make her have babies with the same warriors who killed her family and burned her village down, and see her unwanted sons grow up to do the same and repeat the horrid cycle?
I mean, did Princesses ever think the Princes they are marrying to ALSO isn't marrying princesses out of love but duty? They have to do their part too! That and go fight in wars sometimes especially in the ancient times.
And if you actually study history, you will find that nobles and royals arranged into marriages were actually alright, and nobles had plenty of things to do anyway both for women and men so there wasn't much to be unhappy about while they live in luxury provided by peasants anyway! They weren't marrying for love anyway (this is a marriage = love is a fake modern Hollywood concept anyway) so they didn't really care all that much if the king were to have mistresses either, in fact, a few queens even got on the bandwagon with the times and encouraged their royal husbands to take a few mistresses because even as late as 1800s, kings taking mistresses was seen as showing to the other nations they were extremely vigorous and so manly they can't keep their pants on with just one woman, and the virility translated to a national image and reputation of ferocity and not one to be trifled with.
Peasants didn't bother too much with arranged marriages tho, they didn't have wealth or estates to worry getting split up and diluted. = which is what marriages were about: marrying a powerful family to manage the estate in a way to safely pass onto the next generation + forging alliances to appear bigger (sort of like a wild animal raising its haunches to look big, or a school of fish getting together to form a scary silhouette of a bigger fish).
@@tinseltina Upper class women 1000s of years ago were more than simple vapid romance-seekers who cannot look at the bigger picture of international affairs. They had more important things to worry about. Give them more credit.
Hell, not even queens, but many times even mistresses of kings could sway power by gatekeeping which people the king got to hear from.
Empress Maria Theresia herself picked which royals were her daughters to marry as diplomatic missions for her country of Austria. When the crafty 3rd daughter Maria Christina exploited her mom's sad mood over the death of her husband Emperor Francis I to persuade her cancel her arrangements and marry a lowly noble she fancied, all the other sisters protested because their marriage duty priorities got pushed up and the diplomatic burdens were divvied and added among the rest of the sisters. She also took an especially large dowry, got the family's favorite palace in Laxenburg oft used for their family vacations (Maria Antonia tried to emulate her fond memories of Laxenburg by building in Versailles a chateau called the Little Trianon. Yes, their youngest baby sister/11th daughter is the famously beheaded Marie Antoinette), and elevated her lover to Duke of Teschen. Oh arranged marriages was something everyone just did and accepted, it's just that the sisters resented their mom's such favoritism. The sisters got back at Maria Christina by treating her as a regular noble instead of the decorum deserving of her as Duchess of Teschen.
Because of Maria Christina's stunt, the 4th daughter Maria Amalia had to marry the Duke of Parma (Italy) instead, so she was the most pissed off at this. She straight up did everything opposite of the Empress's commands to "Obey your husband." and deliberately made it clear she was going to cheat all the time. Mom responded by banishing her from her home country (Austria).
Anyway,
Actually, most modern people mistakenly think sexism was an issue back then. It was class division that was far bigger. It was unthinkable a man of lower class to sass a little girl of the upper class. The consequences would've been deadly.
Even 1000 years after Merida's time, in the 17th century England, remember how "you" was used as a term to address one's superiors (and crowds), and everyday use with inferiors and your peers utilized "thou." Many other European languages had and still retain similar divisions.
@@CrabTastingMan i appreciate the added stories of royal ladies in history (they sound like cool stories to base more movies on) but what was your purpose in mentioning them?
it felt like you were assuming i had assumed that the queen didn't do anything because I mentioned the tapestry weaving, but i did beforehand say she focused on diplomacy (read: helping run the kingdom).
I just have to agree when I like brave and at the same time don't even remember the bear thing.
The thing that’s the most disappointing to me is that this is one of the most unique Disney princess movies there is. And this movie’s aesthetic and setting particularly strike a chord with me due to the fact that I and all my family are Celtic. And this is the first film from Disney, a studio I’m a fan of (I’m putting Disney the company aside because F*CK THAT), that is in an aggressively Celtic setting. The music, the aesthetic and many things in this movie feel familiar in a way that NO OTHER Disney film has. And it just makes it all the more disappointing that these morons fired a great director and hired another guy who had NO IDEA what the point of the story was.
I loved Brave when it first came out, however your breakdown of this movie opened up my eyes to take a better look at the film.
(Also, I only saw it the one time in theaters.)
Seeing Andrews say that gender had nothing to do with this film just makes me want to roundhouse kick him in the face. As a woman that is still emerging in this industry, I have had the experience of having both my screenplay and the skills I've trained for years to perfect be directly undermined by male directors -- it is truly infuriating. I sincerely hope that Pixar and many other studios can work to one day have any woman be comfortable to stand up and prove just how good of a storyteller she can be. Female driven stories are vital, are needed, and can be successful when done right and truthfully. Brave can go do the goddamn dump as far as I'm concerned.
It's like your situation is the plot in the movie. A female character pursuing what she wants but in the end she has to accept society's shit.
Sipu97 Well my ideal plot is not accepting that shit and succeeding in spite of society! Maybe that’ll unravel in a sequel at some point 👍
@@Sipu97 No, at the end she was allowed to choose her own path which is against their societal norms.
Sipu97 you totally missed the point of the movie.
Sorry to say that, I'm also a woman trying to emerging in the industry and I totally disagree with you. The movie doesn't have nothing to do with gender. Is a movie about a relationship between a mother and a daughter, not woman vs. the world. And actually you having the bold to tell such thing as every fucking time a female appears on the screen she has to necessarily fight against the system she is in as if the only problem it can exist in a woman's life is sexism, is just offensive. Can't a fucking movie be about the struggle settled between a mom and a daughter? It can only be about a woman vs. society? We have more problems to deal with and to be represented on screen. Also Merida does end up the movie being who she is, and teaching her mother to be more free-spirited and brave, and less what society expected from her. Have you ever saw the movie? Gosh.
Personally, I think it's *cowardly* that none of her Suitors were attractive.
Her stand against Arranged Marriage would actually _mean_ something if she found at least one of the Suitors attractive 😐🤷♂️
@@calmproductivity7930 Who is the bodyguard you're talking about ? I have no memory of that.
Y r u apologizing? Its a fucking cartoon 😂
@@calmproductivity7930 he is hideous AF lol
This needs to get hearted!
@@ardisfaire Yet stories with a Male Protagonist _consistently_ allow him to find Female Characters attractive without the story ever being "about" said Female Characters. How strange 🤔🤷♂️
UA-cam suddenly recommended this video to me again for some reason and I was so excited for a second, remembering this channel and how good your videos where and I checked to see if there were any new ones...
I hope you're doing okay, I don't know if you've just been busy or lost inspiration or... something else. But I hope you're doing okay. Your videos are great and I truly appreciate them.
Saying this because no one else mentioned it:
While the video is still about the movies start, the chapter numbers are in European numerals. When it continues into the bear plot, they change to arabic-indic numerals to represent the 180 shift in plot.
It's small details like that
That "gender has nothing to do with the story" director makes me cringe.
Timestamp?
@@Liz-lq8hw 36:44
My guess is that the studio was worried it would only appeal to women so they replaced the director to make it more generic and cookie cutter to avoid loosing money.
@@Bozemoto omg poor guy
Agreed
Nothing hurts more than watching wasted potential.
That explains a lot about my parents
and wasted haggis
steven universe.
COUGH COUGH Frozen 2
@@lautaroroldanpizzorno7494 Frozen 2 was a more cohesive story that isn't going to quite cut it for the mainstream. Elsa's sense of not belonging due to what made her different and needing to discover the truth about her own life is something many people deal with in real life. It's a part of depression for many people. Those who haven't had to deal with these issues personally may not get that, and that's fine, but for many who have, this is a story that cuts deep. I can see, though, how for a lot of people it would miss the mark. I went in expecting it to be meh, and found it cut to the core of my being because of how much I understood the pain and sense of non-self she had.
Watched this as a teen. The change of plot to a "mother bear" was so noticeable and weird I couldn't even explain it. It became from life like to something mythical that weren't even explained properly
Great video. I vehemently detest this movie but I did find myself mentally defending it from some of your points as I disagreed with a number of things. My biggest disagreement is probably the tapestry confusion as it was made very clear to me through context clues that it was indeed a symbolic bond that needed mending and that Merida simply came up with the wrong conclusion and coincidentally fixed the tapestry at the same time she fixed her bond with her mother. The tapestry, as well as the stone carving, were simply being used as metaphors as well as red herrings.
That is true, thinking about it, her mother didnt turn back into human after fixing the tapestry but it was her apology and reconciling with her which made her turn back. Then again, I can't blame him when the bear plot centered a lot on the stone carvings and the tapestry as an object rather than what symbolizes them. They could've added the scene where both Merida and her mom first created the tapestry, and that would make sense on how the tapestry itself isnt enough to fix it, but also the bond the created the tapestry jn the first place.
Completely agree. For all of Brave's sins, the tapestry/ rift plot element isn't one of them.
They were symbols of their relationship but that doesn’t mean they can’t also be literal representations to mend. The issue with this argument in my mind is that, by definition, a red herring is supposed to be a mistaken conclusion that distracts the characters from the real solution and is ultimately proven wrong. The tapestry was not a red herring because it didn’t distract them from mending their bond, it directly led to it, and it wasn’t proven wrong. Maybe u could say the extra seconds it took between mending it and transformation could be argued to be proof but I truly think that was just for the sake of dramatic suspense. There’s just no proof for it being a red herring other than it would probably arguably be a better movie if it was and clearly the movie doesn’t care about improving itself
Kind of like in Frozen? They thought that the "act of true love" was a kiss from Hans but it was actually Anna trying to save Elsa.
I think in Brave, it becomes the "want vs. need" in the story. Merida "wants" to fix the tapestry to save her mother, but what she actually "needs" is to fix her relationship with her mother.
I guess the tapestry as a red herring was intentional and it served as the "want" in the story.
I've heard a lot of people saying "Brave was Bad" or "Brave was a Disappointment," and I never agreed because I had watched it multiple times and gotten chills each time - I clicked onto your video because of the title: "almost masterpiece." Within the first thirteen minutes, you fully articulated the issue, and I finally understood the dissonance between me and general audiences. By giving the film the credit it deserved WHERE it deserved it, it's much easier to discuss where it fails and why - but this kind of temperance is so rare in the analysis and review genre. People only like to praise and criticize. Well done, I've never had my mind changed by a video like this before.
Brave is just terrible movie. It was a waste of time and money.
I am like that way too. I really enjoy brave.
@@marilynbergemann6808 I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion.
Same here! I’ve always loved brave and I think that’s mainly because it came out when I was a kid and I have good memories of watching it with friends. I’ve always wondered why so many people didn’t like it, and this video perfectly explains all of the ways it technically went wrong. I will still enjoy this movie, but now I will have a stronger appreciation for films that actually do succeed in carrying out a plot. Great video.
Same
Okay I know that the “character turns into an animal and grows as a person” trope has been done to death, but can we agree that Emperor’s new groove, Princess and the frog and Brother Bear are great movies nonetheless?
Edit: wow that's a lot of likes! Thanks!
Eh, brother bear was just alright
@@GRACEABNORMAL really? I thought BB was quite good for it's time,great soundtrack beautiful visuals and though yes the premise was basic it did it with some maturity at least
Princess and the frog is so underrated.
Is it not a little yikes that these are all movies with non-white main characters??? Like, once, sure, but THREE POC main characters turned into animals to learn a lesson??? Less than optimal.
Lou Minous it really is! It's one of my favorites Disney Princess movies
Honestly I really enjoyed this movie. I watched it a lot as a kid and as someone who had mother issues when I was younger it really stuck with me. Now of course even tho I really love it there is obviously wasted potential. I wish the scenes did get darker with more emotional breakdowns (and I mean *more*). The bear thing honestly was something I didn’t mind and thought it was quite entertaining and a unique concept despite how random it was. Every time someone mentions taking away the bear arc I can’t help but feel the magic of the world may be taken away too. If the bear concept was taken away I would at least want there to still be a feel of magic and wonder in the world (with good writers I’m sure they could take away the bear thing without taking away the magic tho). I also think the movie could have benefited with more in debt plot of how they grew to become so distant and learn how much they truly love each other. A proper mother daughter arc would be perfect and I’m sure it would, like it did to me, make others feel seen and give us something to relate to. I kinda wonder what Brave would have been like if they hadn’t fired the original lady in charge. A remake made by the original girl ( and I mean a proper remake with same voices, similar animation and same feel just different story) could really change the way people see brave and it could be better than the first one.
thank you for pinpointing and diving into exactly what i couldn't for years.
One of my teachers worked as an art-director in Brave. He says that before they changed direction, it was like a completely different movie. He sounded a bit disappointed. Might have something to do with throwing out loads of story and... snow? They had designed a lot of snow, lol.
F for your teacher
How was the movie gonna turn out?
Justice for the snow!
Actually it would be so interesting to get to know how the story was gonna be
I'm lowkey sad Natalia isn't responding
You have to tell us what the original plot was, please respond.
I'd like to add that as a Scottish person I don't feel that Brave represented our countrys heritage accurately, it's just another Americanisation or caricature of what's actually a very interesting and political time in our history.
Also no one calls babies "babbies" that's just not a fckn thing, call them bairns or wains (wains = wee ones)
@@alicehargest i think the only people I've ever heard say babbie before was the dudes from the yogscast
@@byrnetdown6076 wonder how bad Kelly McDonald and Billy Connolly cringed when they heard that lmao
Agreed, I so desperately wanted to love this movie because it was set in Scotland, but I was greatly disappointed...
I always thought "if they try to make a magic scottish princes film, why don't just use a tale from Scotland?" That was something both Disney and Pixar learn latter with Moana and Coco, but this movie don't make cultural justice or cense
Not me binging all 3 of his videos until he uploads again 😔👌
One thing about the tapestry: The tapestry is definitely a symbol but also supposed to be a red herring. The superficial physical item Merida thought was the answer, but the actual “bond” that needed mending was the love between family yadda yadda.
The cracked stone was a weird thing to add in this case because it makes it appear as if that is a key element in the curse or something but I see it as heavy handed implication that there was similar familiar struggles (even though it was literally explained as such by the mom earlier in the film). I see it as the creators not trusting their story telling enough and having to add that flashback and broken stone to really make sure the audience sees the parallel.
Idk why, but when she rips the dress it’s just really satisfying
Edit: Keep y'all's transphobia out of my replies. I made a comment about how her dress was satisfying and somehow it turned to 'oh yeah, clothing=gender' like no. I reported the comments, so no need to worry, but Jesus H. Christ can we go one day without that stuff?
right!
@Not Another Minute I was really surprised when I got a Merida barbie and she was in the blue dress. I was expecting her to be in the dress we saw her in most of the movie.
Agreed!! It's probably a result of the quality of the sound effects and the timing of the edits. ☺️
@@KatyCruel1 Yeah, that makes sense.
Ya
Honestly seeing the Brother Bear scenes side by side with Brave was...wow. It was basically just a copy paste. Incredible. (Particularly since Brother Bear was so much better...)
In my opinion, ''Brother Bear'' did the human-turned-into-animal plot perfectly. The film's major themes are a) living in harmony with nature, and b) seeing the world through another's eyes. Kenai's transformation into a bear isn't treated as a gag or a plot device, but a rich part of the film that is a catalyst for his character arc, affects his relationships with multiple characters, and influences the trajectory of the film. At no point does Kenai becoming a bear, or learning to act like a bear, or striving to become human again ever feel contrived or disjointed; it's woven into the story with grace and purpose. By contrast, Elinor's transformation into a bear is...completely random. If she had become a dog or a hedgehog or even a dragon, it wouldn't have changed the story one iota. And it doesn't tie into the film's themes either.
Also, fun fact. In a documentary for ''Brother Bear'', the directors discuss how a human becoming a bear is a common theme in Native American lore, as the hibernation process (going to sleep, then awakening) symbolizes rebirth and, by extension, character growth. They took this theme and made an entire film out of it. So the whole "transformation into a bear" bit also serves as a cultural component, which makes it doubly cool (since, you know, Kenai is Inuit and all).
@@Colarein oh my goodness, the transformation scene in Brother Bear was absolutely magnificent. The combination of the melodic singing, hard thump of the drum, paired with the northern lights- the visual and audio quality were just magical together. That movie was truly a masterpiece, I'm not sure why it's not talked about as much as, say, Frozen, for example.
The only thing I like about Brother Bear is the animation. I find all the plot, characters and music so boring and obnoxious! That might be a matter of personal taste though.
Brother Bear is DEEPLY underrated.
@@raiorai2 That is definitely a you problem haha
The fact this movie won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature over Wreck-It Ralph STILL frustrates me.
I remember being 9 at the time when the movie aired, sitting in the cinema being hella confused as to why her mother suddenly became a bear and why the story transformed into what it did.
I was like 17 when this thing was in theaters and I completely blacked out the whole bear part so the movie was to me the beginning, the confession and the horsey ride at the end.
Needless to say, after several rewatches I hated it in the same way I hate PATF.
I just realized that I remember almost every scene leading up to the bear-formation but nothing afterwards. I wOndeR WhY
I was really confused why everyone hates Brave cause I literally only rememebr the first 30 minutes of the movie and having a great impression of it. I forgot there was even a bear plot.
Zero 'O Clock I remember people complaining about the bear in brave a lot and was really confused, like what was so wrong with the bad guy? It was a kinda interesting backstory? Then I rewatched it...
I only remembered when merida tried to feed her bear mom with berries and they took a bath in some kind of pond or something, and at the end there were some giant stones surrounding them and the final fight took place.
Bear-induced amnesia. A classic
My theory is that the tapestry didn't have anything to do with the spell to begin with. I think when the witch said "mend the bond torn by pride" she actually meant the emotional bond between Merida and Eleanor. Merida just made a mistake and assumed the witch meant the tapestry. This is why the spell didn't break when Merida fixed the tapestry and covered her mother in it. The spell broke when Merida apologized and confessed her love for her mother which mended their relationship aka their bond as mother and daughter.
Nice! I can see that.!
As a child, that's how I always understood the movie!
That's what I always thought when I first saw it
yeah i thought that was what everyone thought.
Holy shi-- I thought that was the whole point too.
I guess the scenes happened too fast that it didn't emphasized this version of the breaking of the spell part. That's why some ppl got the wrong idea
I was really shocked with your views on the tapestry part of breaking the spell. I live in a non-english-speaking country, so maybe that's cultural, maybe because of the dubbing. However, I've never before heard anyone say that the tapestry is what broke the spell, instead, everyone believed that Merida was mistaken, and what broke it was how they bonded while the queen was a bear. It allowed her to see Merida's world, and for Merida to see she's not a one-tracked enemy. I don't know mate, it's all confusing :p
Good work on the video
I guess that is how forgettable the second part is; the details of the climax and the reconciliation of Merida’s and Elinor’s viewpoints were messed up, and most would not think twice or check, or if they are they are not the type to comment.
Exactly which would be why it didn’t work immediately when Merida covered Elinor with the tapestry
Merida is my favorite Disney princess! I feel like she was one of the best tomboy princess Disney made.
The “gender has nothing to do with this movie” part sadden me so much, I think I might cry haha
what'
this film had so much potential
@@frogkik I just didn't understand what the original poster meant. how is that sad
@@snxwsyz it is sad that this movie could have been about womanhood but instead the director Andrews and his team went into this with the mindset of "there is no gender" and completely missed the point.
@@jonginisholy yea. It made me so sad
fear's "boooo pick a plotline" is still one of my favourite lines ever and will DEFINITELY be used when talking about stories and media now.
The entire "Fear critiques a nightmare" scene immortalized him as my favorite character from the movie.
I'm so glad that Inside Out gave the emotions realistic personalities, instead of just turning them into one-dimensional caricatures.
Upon rewatching this and comparing it to Turning Red, I had an epiphany. Unlike Disney, Pixar (mostly) learns from its mistakes
My problem is that except for her not getting to choose her own husband. None of the characters except the mother seems to give a shit about Merida being feminine or not. Making it seem much less like its about "daughter/mother/society" and more "daughter/mother/mothers idea of society thats doing the "sir not appearing in this movie" thing". Like you can choose almost every single instance of "societys expectations" with "here mothers expectations" and I honestly think that would be a more accurate description of the story.
I’m glad they didn’t do a “Out men the men” Story, because to me those are really boring, it’s just
“I can do anything a man can do”
“ No you can’t your a girl”
*girls does the same thing as a man*
“Forgive us, a woman can do anything a man can do”
But I think that has never been the point of it, even during production when the movie was indeed "about gender". They could bring up the gender conflict better without making it about "being better than men".
I concur
As Knuckles once said
"Anytime someone calls attention to the breaking of gender roles it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by implying this is an exception and not the status quo."
You can have a gender role breaking thing but if you call attention to it or overemphasize it, it makes it look like you just went "I can eat spicy food. No one else but I can. Look at how out of ordinary and unbelievable this is!"
I HATE those stories because they STILL say that being a man is the only way to be, and that women has to act like men to be capable or worthy or whatever. Femininity isn't a weakness and everyone doesn't have to strive for masculinity
Why is it that women are always needing to prove themselves equal to men? Where are the stories of men wanting to do feminine things and show that they can do anything a woman can do? Now there os some equality for you!
ah yes, gender has nothing to do with the movie about a 10th-century princess who doesn't want to get married or be particularly feminine, and her mother who wants her to both. surely this scenario would play out exactly the same if they were men. truly, a story without gender.
it does, kinda... In Barbie, the Island Princess, the plot is about a prince who doesn't want to marry a girl his father engaged him to. yeah, barbie is the principal character and the story is a lot about romance and the forbidden love between Ro and the prince, but the «prince who doesn't want to get married» plot still works.
also, he doesn't want to assume the «king role», as his father did. he wants to travel around the world.
It does though, in fact the sons of the other kings were in similar situations. What if they didn't want to take on traditionally masculine roles and arranged marriage, but were forced to buy their fathers? Its more about not destroying the existing Flawed system because of the repercussions and instead compromising a bit and having things changing slower without the total destruction of norms, flawed as they are?
lol, if you actually watched the movie you'd know that not everything merida faced was because of her alone. the sons also didn't want to be forced into a loveless marriage.
I’m pretty sure OP was being sarcastic guys. They don’t agree with the opinion they put.
I think Moana was everything I wished Brave to be, an epic odyssey where gender had not much to do with the plot. I wanted a hero lady back then lol. I think that it would have been a good movie if the will-o-wisp actually meant something, the lore stayed decorative. I would have had Merida just rescuing one of the boys or the queen using her bow and arrows because her fate made her be her own person instead of the princess her mother wanted her to be. I think it was also planned that Merida fell in love with one of the other guys from the clans, but that this would not hinder her dreams for freedom.
Men don't really go too far from using one of the 3 villainess archetypes when writing the bad women (TM) : That one mean woman who is jealous of other women beauty/popularity, that one castrating jungian mom who doesn't let you have fun because society/rules, and last but no least the monster or wolf in sheep clothes. Eleanor was neither of them but she was forced into the bear suit, it's hilarious to pinpoint the moment the director changed.
I think you should watch turning red because that's the movie that brave wanted to be
@@kittykittybangbang9367 i watched it and i wholeheartedly agree with you. I really wish the tapestry or the will-o-wisp meant something for merida, i regret watching that movie lol