Have Video Game Controllers Peaked?
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- In this video, we're looking back at the evolution of controllers, and ask the question, 'Have Video Game Controllers Peaked?'
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I think we can all agree that the DK bongos are the best controller ever designed. People just weren't ready for it.
I love the fact that only Nintendo has been proven to never be consistent with shapes, I mean controllers, at this point Nintendo has accidentally discovered a shape or two while developing controllers and I appreciate that dedication.
It honestly is one of my favorite controllers. Still have a couple today. It felt so fun to use on Jungle Beat. Only Nintendo will think of that
imo dark souls is the perfect testing ground for controllers and if someone beats it with that controller then that controller is goated, bongos instantly goated
Ok dunkey wanna be haha funny very good joke not played out at all A plus plus
@@JB2FROSTY wow lol you are one sad and miserable person. I hope you feel happy someday
One thing I'm surprised didn't come up was that the main change we've seen since the 360 era were buttons that don't get used in games, but are instead used to operate the console- not just the console-branded 'home menu' buttons that double as power buttons for wireless controllers (which weren't necessary previously) but also screenshot/share buttons.
RIP Start & Select
He also forgot to include how the Joy Cons can function as one or two separate controllers. If kids are really sharing a Joy Con each like in the commercials then it’s real controller innovation, the tiny things are too uncomfortable for adult hands. Lastly IDK how he didn’t realize in 8:36 that he’s looking at prototype controllers that later inspired the Switch’s.
@@Potatoboii2 I miss those buttons. Hell, it started early -- my brother and I were lucky enough to get an N64 for the holidays not long after it released, and when we unboxed it, I didn't even blink at the three handles, my first thought was "where's Select?"
You could say controllers have "peaked" in the sense of being comfortable enough for use in most games, but the truth is, it's impossible to make a controller that's ideal for every game you might use it in because games vary so much. Getting into the fightstick and arcade modding scene really opened my eyes to this, but I'd say it goes beyond fighting games. That's why I love third party and gimmick controllers and why the PS5's harsh controller restrictions are the worst thing about the console. Having more options is beneficial to everyone.
For example, symmetrical analog sticks are better for first person shooters where the camera doesn't budge an inch unless you tell it otherwise because you strafe automatically, while inverted sticks are better for third person platformers where the camera will generally follow your movement and the face buttons play a bigger role.
What can I say? The hands like symmetry.
@@PhantomationTVbro what the f*ck are you on about. no
That's one reason I love Nintendo, you can hook so much shit to their consoles. Now if only their business decisions weren't so anti-consumer.
it's all games, it works the same
@@SuperRat420 would you play guitar hero with the Pokemon let's go pokeball controller? The game's and controller's designs matter a lot. Edit just read your username, nice :)
A significant controller advancement made in the last couple generations has been gyro controls in the controller. When implemented properly it's helping to close the accuracy gap between a traditional controller and a mouse.
And why stop there? There are more applications for it than just aiming your gun.
@@tekgeekster Yes, gyro mechanics could be very useful in gaming, but unfortunately Microsoft seems to not want to implement it, meaning in our current multiplatform age, developers are not going to design around it, and it can only be an 'optional' thing. Standardization is key.
Splatoon is a great example of gyro controls done very well
@@DoctorHero Gravity Rush?
The touchpad which DualShock 4/DualSense have are also neat when configured properly. I do not own the PS4 or 5 but use em on PC via Steam. Managed to set up a configuration where in Metal Gear Rising i swipe the touchpad in a direction i want to cut in free blade mode and its actually amazing.
IMO we’re at the point where ergonomics are hard-set, and we’re only going to see small experimental tweaks moving forward.
I’d like to see an option for 6 face buttons to make a return, additional back buttons, and the ability to rotate the the location of analogue sticks/shoulder buttons to suit individual players/games.
I actually really enjoy the paddle buttons on the Steam Deck and think Valve finally got that concept to work. Not a huge fan of six face buttons. The switch to bumpers was more efficient.
I want the GameCube button layout to come back
Seeing the market for pro controllers, it's clear to see people are starting to move towards back buttons instead of face buttons. Creating a cross compatible world has put pressure on controllers to compete with mouse and keyboard. The buttons might not change, but I think button location is still being optimized slowly.
Maybe for shooters, but for any other game, the standard layout is supreme.
@@Just_normal_youtube_channel I think monster hunter is better with back buttons. Lack of back buttons forces melee games to use a lock on. Lock on is lame.
I will say having two programmable buttons on the bottoms of controllers has been really helpful. For crouching and running/rolling in Elden Ring it's an absolute blessing (especially the latter so don't have to take thumb off the right stick)
@@spooky8662 Only when it's "press one button to turn on Lock On" which admittedly is what most action games have tended to do. Devil May Cry has used R1 as the Lock-On button and it's massively important in those games and having manual lock on in DMC is so significant that when they took it out for one game, the lack of lock on made that game objectively worse and removed massive parts of the moveset.
@@ORLY911 I just make roll L2
This is a great video! However, Sony didn't remove vibration from the SIXAXIS in favour of the motion controls, they did it because they were actively involved in a lawsuit. They lost the suit but were able to arrange deals with the company that sued them, eventually readding vibration into their PS3 controllers via the DualShock 3. Thanks to Gardox for correcting me!
What? They lost both the trial and the appeal and end up settling out of court and paying the license
@@gardox3215 thanks! I must have misheard that somewhere, I'll edit the original in case anyone else comes by.
@@nekogirlbeth123Very kind of you
There's also something the newer consoles have that the older ones didn't: having to maintain backwards compatibility. When they were cranking out all these new form factors for early consoles, no one was thinking about games being playable years into the future but it is now an expectation. If you design games for a specific controller form factor, it's harder to maintain it and game development is much more standardized/mature now.
the touchpad on the ps4 and ps5 is already outdated, barely any game uses it and it takes up like 40% of the entire controller
@@morgannyan2738 Sure but like you said, the touchpad is barely used. No one actually develops their games around it and at best, it's just an additional feature rather than the main feature. So they're clearly avoiding it in order to not have to do maintain anything for it in the future, which is the natural thing to do. There's also the cross-platform expectation. If a game is also going to be on Xbox or PC, there's no point in developing a feature that doesn't translate to them. This is probably one reason why Nintendo keeps such a stranglehold on its 1st party games: they have more control and ownership so they can just mix up the form factors however they want without having to consider the other platforms.
With USB ports being available in every console by now, that problem would be fixed by simply letting you use older controllers on newer consoles, but no. They force you to use the exact controller for that console, because that way you'll have to buy another one if you want to play with another person or if the original one you got with the console gets broken.
I really want to live in the fantasy world you're living in.
1) Backwards compatibility isn't new, they just killed it in the PS4/XOne/Switch generation. Microsoft eventually added it back slowly, Sony did streaming, and Nintendo did really poor emulation tied to a subscription.
2) Controllers aren't backwards compatible. I'm kinda lost here. I don't think you can use any new controller with older consoles. I know you can't use PS4 controllers with the PS5, you can use XOne controllers with the Series consoles, and Nintendo sells remakes of the GameCube controller I guess.
3) Yeah game development on the whole has gotten significantly less mature this generation. Like on every level.
@@GT2OOO you can use last gen Xbox controllers on the new Xbox consoles. But this is really just another win for PC. You can use any standard XOne or Series controller or download software to let you use PS controllers.
5:55 It's really nice to see CGR still getting mentioned in these types of videos despite Mark not doing game reviews anymore.
Agreed, I used to enjoy his videos. He had a great sense of humor. Any idea whatever happened to him?
@@TBrizzle01 I thought he just retired. Absolutely love CGR and the spin off channels though
@@IgnoreSolutions Probably. I was just wondering since it's been a while. He was a funny guy and way ahead of the curve on UA-cam. It's nice to see him referenced.
Quite the throwback Thursday for me indeed.
Mark gave us a legacy
A decent thesis however I think you missed a chance to discuss pro controllers like the Xbox elite controller and other such controllers which incorporate back buttons which in my opinion really enhance the gaming experience and should be standard going forward. I would say that the steam deck with its many features such as dual track pads, four back buttons, gyro controls, touch screen, and fully customizable interface is currently my candidate for the current apex of controller design.
But it doesn't change the shape or basic function which is what this video is getting at
Haptic touchpads are a game changer. Albeit, the steam deck takes a reserved approach to touchpad controls, I respect it.
So it's an upgraded Wii U controller?
That does indeed seem pretty great tbh.
It's a gradual evolution. Not a revolution. And not yet standard. Maybe on the Xbox series XYX
it wasn't really well utilized when it was introduced with the ps3 controller but using the gyro to help aim can be a lot more precise than just an analogue stick, especially if you're able to use a flickstick setup
I think something you missed with the 360 controller is that it dropped the black and white buttons for and new set of shoulder buttons, or rather, "bumpers". The original Xbox only had the trigger and no second set of shoulder buttons like the Playstation controller.
Which yeah, made it more in line with Playstation
Honestly, I did not expect such kind of video on your channel but I absolutely loved watching it!
I think this shows just how much credit Nintendo deserves in controller innovation: d-pad, shoulder buttons, analog thumb stick, rumble, touch screens (moreso for handheld), motion controls...all started with them and all are still relevant. They've certainly had a lot of fumbles too, but I can respect the willingness to try new things.
Also the originator of the dpad, best user of wireless up to their implementation, and creator of the 4 face button and 2 shoulder button design.
I'm surprised back paddles aren't more of a regular thing, considering how a lot of third party controllers like 8bitdo have them, and there are official alternative controllers and accessories that feature those.
@@lr514 So anyone who wants to sell a controller with them has to pay Corsair money right?I think Sony and Microsoft also limit the back buttons to premium controllers to make you pay more.
@@protocetid Yeah, they would have to license it I think.
money is why
Oculus launched the Rift Touch Controllers in 2016, and it's become the standard in every VR device including the recently launched PSVR 2. It's basically a modern controller, like one from Xbox or Playstation, but split in 2. Kind of like if you cut a Dualshock in half, which leaves you with 2 shoulder buttons (trigger and grip) and an analog stick in each hand. As for the face buttons, you get 2 for each controller. A+B/circle+X on your right hand, X+Y/square+triangle on your left hand.
I wish splitting controllers in two became more popular, even for traditional games. Playing normal games on the Wii with the Wiimote in one hand and the Nunchuck in the other was super comfortable. You could hold your hands however you liked and weren't forced to always hold them near each other in the front of your body.
A real shame, that you can't just hook up most VR controllers to a PC and use them as traditional controllers.
Hang on a second....
I read your comment earlier but only remembered now:
You just described the joy cons of the Nintendo Switch.
There you go. Your perfect controller.
@@Un1234l True, although the joycons are a little too small for me, but I guess that can be solved with attachments. I just wish that it became more mainstream.
@@bjorntantau194 I'm kind of eyeing a Joycons alternative called NYXI Wizard. It's basically a bluetooth GameCube controller split in 2, but with improved analog sticks and all shoulder buttons. Looks awesome and has had good reviews so far.
I've held every PS controller and Xbox controller. The offset Xbox layout somehow is just more ergonomic.
Agreed
Exactly. My friend got a ps5 and kept saying dude you have to try the new controller it’s way better than Xbox! I was immediately disappointed. The offset analogs can’t be beat no matter what you do. Insanely more comfortable and natural
Its because your thumb is in the natural position on the left stick. For the right side, the buttons is the most important, and there your other thumb is in its natural position.
Pretty much, yeah, we’ve gotten to that point where we’ve figured out what ergonomically works, and that’s not a bad thing. As a bit of a gun nut, I’ve observed a something thing in rifle development, some of those earlier WWI light machine guns especially just don’t look like they were designed to be used by humans.
what this video misses is that ergonomics are far from being the only important thing. there's a lot that can be improved in modern controllers
i’m shocked you didn’t mention the steam deck. i’m thinking the steam controller 2.0 will be peak. 2 touchpads in addition to thumb sticks, 4 comfortable back paddles. great additions that aren’t on most controllers all together.
I agree and dont forget Haptic feedback, touch sensitive thumbsticks for gyro and such, completely adjustable, a chord and quick settings button.
I love the Steam controller, I even bought a few cheap extras in case they become really hard to find.
I think if it was customizable in the sense that I could have 3 areas that I can customize and use the touchpad(s) or the stick(s) it would be the best instead of being locked to what valve deems best.
Virtual Boy should have been mentioned here. Nintendo understood that the 3D for the Virtual Boy implied more axis to move, so they include a second d-pad on the Virtual Boy controller, beeing this second d-pad the predecesor to the c-stick on the Nintendo 64, and therefore, a predecesor to the right joystick.
Also, calling the Switch controller a "refinement" of the Wii U one is a really bold move. Because it's not.
I agree dual d-pad not only was an interesting idea but it also made them realise oh for 3D maybe d-pads won't cut it (maybe I don't know, then again the 3D ones are your Red Alarm and Waterworld so not really Nintendo there but third parties. Then again the right d-pad I don't think we're used in those games that way. You did Teleroboxer and a few others games but apparently not many games used it I think. So I've heard or remember hearing.
But still with Mario 64 and Pilot Wings I assume they realised this more so. That and SNES Starfox and Genesis Virtual Racing were also side to side controls too so I assume having more movement is what they would aim for in other games.
I agree the Switch Pro is different from the Wii U. Sure the battery life aspect stuck but the details are very different in triggers and buttons in certain ways to not be the same.
Then again I think many people see the Wii U a wireless screen to a Switch a cabled tablet the same thing when I mean many devices have had a HDMI cable or composite to them whether Sega Nomad/PSP 2000 or a laptop/tablet.
While your phone can cast to a TV with third party apps not counting oh the cast button in UA-cam and the UA-cam app on the TV I mean literally the phone's every action on your TV the same way a Wii U or Vita or whatever can do things from the console down to the Gamepad. But it's not the same goal it's because people didn't get it they went to a cabled approach to go with the handheld and TV gap because no one cares for the Wii U dual screen and casting an image. I mean I think a syncing of handheld and both but to a console base and wireless is cool but eh I see no Switch 2 going there. But of course the phone upwards is the case not the TV down to the phone. I think it's completely different but most people think oh Gamepad, Switch then what it actually is doing of cable and wireless goals besides well dual screen and well Switch casting it's image to the TV with a cable. It's not the same goal or an evolution it's a devolution because people didn't get the wireless goal but as people kind of don't care about dual screens or wireless clearly 'in that way' not surprised.
Yes, basically VB & N64 stablished 3D game controls. Also, the Joycon are what console controllers should be. Of course with some necessary ergonomic & input adjustments. But basically the Joycon can handle almost any type of game. A shame Sony & MS are missing the picture het again.
Yeah, I think the current design of the three companies is as refined as a controller can be. You can use an Xbox controller in any emulator and it will work very well.
If anything, I feel like the industry stopped evolving the controllers in favor of in-game customization features.
20 years ago, my father bought a third party controller for the PC that resembled the DualShock. I'm still using it for my PC perfectly
that is just market consolidation, so many games are made for multiple consoles so they need similar controls, the switch wouldn't need a classic gamepad if it wasn't for third party games because nintendo games have simpler controls and can be playerd with half a joycon, the other half of the joycon is just so they can port games like assassins creed
*stopped
@@alvallac2171 thanks
Gyro aim does change things
I've been using a Logitech F310 for 10 years and it's held up very well it's a duelshock style controller with Xbox buttons
I think the WiiU gamepad had the best layout. The two analog sticks were the perfect distance from the buttons, and the buttons themselves were a great size. I wish the WiiU pro controller had a layout closer to the gamepad.
Yeah it was pretty good. The jerk up jump maneuver on Mario Kart felt right.
Problem with it was that it was too heavy and the "triggers" where just buttons
@@Radu33- Felt way more substantial after the WiiMote though.
I have a question this also includes the switch but why are the A Y X and B buttons switched I play on switch and Xbox and it have always bugged me
I like that the WiiU gamepad and pro controller had both analog sticks in the "upper" position, it's great for games where your right thumb is on the stick most of the time. I just don't love the rest of the controller, particularly the shoulder buttons. I wish there was a third party Xbox controller that had the sticks laid out like that.
i think the steam deck is my favorite controller, the two touch pads are so customizable its kinda crazy, i think second would be the dual sense but yeah it really needs more devs to put at least a days worth of effort in to the triggers. I can't stand asymmetrical analog sticks so i have a lot of trouble enjoying XB or nintendo controllers.
I'd love a steam deck "pro controller", all the function of the steam deck with the size of a normal controller. Throw in the dual stage triggers of the original steam controller for good measure.
Steam Controller's touch pads are awesome, and I make a frequent use of it's iteration, Steam Deck's sensor pads. Yes, movement is better handled with a stick, but almost everything else is more responsive with these things: camera, menu navigation, etc
My Steam Deck made me dig out my unused Steam Controller I bought back in 2016 when they released and I have been going deep down the SC rabbit hole. Ater A LOT of tinkering and custom configuring, including trying to use left pad for movement, I think I have come back to the analog stick being the best for movement. I agree on everything else though. The right pad is awesome for camera and the controller is so customizable it is insane. Also, having gyro turn on when touching the right pad was/is a game changer for shooters. I desperately wish Valve would make a version 2.0 of the SC and keep the big pads in the primary spot.
This is why I’m really hoping for a Steam Controller 2, as the touchpads on the Steam Deck are a real revolution for many games. (Especially point & click games and 3D platformers, the latter of which has so much better camera movement with a touchpad over a second stick.)
I made a comment on the stream controller too i can't go back to traditional sticks anymore I would like if it had a Dpad tho instead of an analogue stick as I can't get used to the touchpad for 2D games
In a sense the Steam Deck is the steam controller 2. You have 2 sticks and 2 pads which is the best controller for pc gaming. They'd just have to translate that into an actual controller.
@@yol_n 2 pads, 2 sticks (with touch sensing caps which is great for enabling/disabling gyro), gyro, analog triggers, and 4 paddle buttons which are actually buttons you can map to things, rather than just shortcuts to other buttons already on the controller.
Common guys! We gotta bring the steam controller back. Soo good!
And the gyroscope
If More Controllers had 4 Back Buttons/Paddels Yes that should become a mainstay as well as Hall Effect Sticks Standardard in all Controllers.
Owning a Steam Deck and frequently using it's unique inputs, I can definitely say no to the initial question.
And to the question on the end, it is my favourite controller, despite being finicky to use on my desktop, over Steam Link.
With schemes like FlickStick+Gyro, back buttons and menus or mouse input on the trackpads, it can do a lot more than "normal" controllers while staying as comfortable.
While I wouldn't want a return of motion based waggle-fever, I do consider a controller without gyro lacking in inputs, as sticks are incredibly inaccurate and gyro is a comfortable supplement to them.
Along with these alternative aiming controls, recently got into trackball.
To my own surprise, I greatly prefer it over a mouse, as it's way more comfortable to use.
Am running into mild accuracy related issues with my current thumb operated model, but the finger operated one I recently ordered should solve that.
Similarly I'm also upgrading my keyboard to a buckling spring board, but I can not comment on that until I try it.
Point being, neither inputs have peaked, but many think they have as they do not look further than what they are used to.
It takes time getting familiar with new inputs, if you remember it your experience learning twinstick controls proofs that, but most seem to forget that and blame the new input.
Which is why game companies are less willing to target these new inputs, unless it's subtle like Sony's approach, or for a more receptive audience like Nintendo's.
Exception being the PC gamers who use Steam Input to make the most of various controllers, who can attest to traditional controller controls being sub-optimal.
I think there's two aspects of this, technologically, controllers are continuing to evolve. But hardware wise, The only reason a "controller shape" became the standard, it's because of companies like Nintendo. There might be future controllers that are non-standard. (One of my favorites that is technically non-standard is the Philips CDI controller)
Kind of ironic to use "companies like Nintendo" as they've had the least established controller design.
Actually the Wiimote/psmove controller lives on in modern virtual reality controllers (assuming you remove the nun chuck and replace it with a second wiimote with the other set of buttons on it). That is exactly with motion controls were best for: VR. as a matter of fact, psvr uses a dual-psmove setup.
They’ve actually gone down in quality. Why does nobody talk about the PS2 having an anti-stick drift feature that would recalibrate itself back to center if it ever gone thrown off. Unfortunately for consumers the business can’t make millions off controllers when they fix themselves
Great video! For PC users, I guess the keyboard was peaked long time ago. 😅
You could do video about accessories too! I know some people have done that but it's still fun to watch anyway.
Specifically in 2002, with the release of the Keyboard GameCube controller.
We sadly haven’t gotten much closer to greatness since then.
The problem with looking at controllers as just mere instruments, a passive medium through which to connect the player to an avatar, is that the controller is the game itself, and when I would get a new system, half the pleasure lay in the experience of how the alterations in types of controller with each new system altered the feeling, quality of what gaming was like.
If you don't alter the controller, neither will the games evolve in possibilities for how you play, shooters will remain manipulation of a horizontal axis with trying to centre a target on another vertical axis to align cross hairs Y to target X.
Honestly the Sega Saturn controller is god-tier, it fits in your hands soooo nicely. serious if anyone reads this and has the opportunity to at least hold a sega saturn controller you wont regret it. also the sega saturn move controller (the one that looks like a spaceship, hence its nickname the spaceship) doesn't feel as bad as you'd think.
Agreed
I got a couple of Saturn controllers that I use mainly for 2D games and they're fantastic. I didn't get to try the controller back when it was new, but damn, it's peak 2D controller. Also works well for the LEGO games.
The Saturn controller was a major reason I decided to back it against the PS1 back in the mid-90's.
It was SOOOO amazing using that controller while playing Nights into dreams (I'm well aware it was pretty much developed for it)
I don’t know if somebody mentioned this, something important to note in the GameCube Controller design is the usefulness of having the analog stick in front of the thumb. For games that relied so much on the use of a stick, it gives a better sense of holding a specific direction while also being more comfortable.
Add to this the brilliant idea of having a rounded octagon border for the stick (which the N64 also had), you can tell exactly where common directions are for additional precision (e.g. Think the usefulness when doing a directional recovery in Super Smash Brothers for sweetspoting the edge [characters like Fox, Pikachu, Zelda, etc].
When I was active in the SSB scene, those features were a blessing, compared to the roundness and the stick placement (in the PS controller).
Even though i agreed controllers haven't envolver significantly in the last decade i can say that the haptic feedback on the triggers and evolved rumble of the dual sense have been a game changer for me... i wanna try the HD rumble of the joycons but i only have a switch lite...
*I
*evolved
*decade, I
*joycons, but
@@alvallac2171 shut up
@@alvallac2171 🤓☝️
@@alvallac2171 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
@@alvallac2171nerd 🤓
A lot of it comes down to cross compatibility. Like the PS2 had 8 pressure sensitive buttons, but because most games had to also work on the XBox and sometimes GameCube, very few games outside of exclusives actually utilized them.
Xbox had pressure sensitive buttons and several games used them (mainly sport and racing games) but were rarely used to full extend and lots of people didnt know pressure was a thing
@@gardox3215 Oh? Then it makes even less sense multiplat games didn't support them for the PS2 versions.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it. I do love going back through older consoles and seeing their unique control schemes, but truthfully, I think game controllers are perfect the way they are. Plus we still have the VR stuff coming out and the accessories for that
"if it ain't broken, don't fix it" then why does the switch not use the n64 controllers??? us chernobyl mutants have 3 hands! not 2!
Then break it and fix it again! The only way to get innovation.
@@Mango_of_lies Touche
I actually remember that their was a Nintendo patent for scroll wheels replacing shoulder triggers a while back. Which on it's own is a great solution for menu scrolling in menu heavy games. So I think their is still room to iterate on the current design. maybe they just need technology to continue improving so that these could one day become a reality
The original Xbox was the first console I ever owned myself as a kid. I remember how magical that controller looked to me. I'd also always pick at the Xbox logo on both the larger and smaller one.
Leaving behind marks in the squishy gel of the smaller one.
I feel like the way to push controllers forward might be adding back those extra face buttons while retaining all 4 trigger buttons. As well as built in programable back buttons or paddles.
I do also love the VR controllers.
I was 10 when I got the original Xbox in 02.. 👴
I do believe that for now, unless we are going to see second VR boom in few years, everything is set. Hell, even Sony's PSVR2 controllers are almost identical (aside of few design changes) to Oculus/Meta controllers, used first on Oculus Rift and now on Quest, Quest 2 and Quest Pro (the latter is only different in ditching tracking rings because its controllers are self-tracking via separate cameras, sensors and their own CPUs and do not rely on headset for that part of equasion). Valve Index has similar layout with few changes and only odd one is old HTC Vive controller. So VR market also became pretty standardised even at this day.
I am still baffled by the fact that many gamedevs don't use gyro on PS4-PS5 controllers, considering that they can have this feature and using PS4 controller on PC with Gyro aiming feels really good in FPS games.
I always knew that Oculus had the controller layout perfect at the start. It was basically confirmed when both the Index controllers and now more recently the PSVR controllers use basically the same form factor.
I was thinking we were set, but playing on the steam deck changed my mind. the level of control/speed/finesse I get from having a trackpad is amazing, and I find myself wishing I had it on all of my other consoles. Hopefully Valve or someone will release a controller with a touchpad like that for other consoles.
The steam controller was truly ahead of its time in many ways
Serious question, what do you use the trackpads for? I don't own a steam deck.
Trackpads fail to replicate a mouse very well
@@twiztedsnake13 you can use the left one as a mouse, though I played a game where I would do that yet. Mostly I've been using my right trackpad for look controls in EDF 4.1, and I am SO much faster. Some names the trackpad doesn't feel as responsive, which I think is due to implementation.
The best implementation I've seen so far is in 4.1, which has some momentum and you can flick to turn.
@@trapez77 Yeah, it's definitely different from a mouse, but waaaay better than a joystick for rapid aiming.
0:14 That's not a Dual Shock, that's a Dual Analog controller. That was very quickly discontinued after less than a year.
I think the Steam controller's customization and the touchpads were a step in the right direction and it seems Valve agrees since they incorporated them into the Steam Deck. I'm still holding my breath for a Steam Controller successor.
Any controller now has the same customizability than a steam controller, and the ds4 and dualsense also have split touchpads you can take advantage of.
successor*
@@CptMuttonchops There's a huge difference between the PS4/5 touchpad and the Steam Controller touchpads, especially when it comes to customization.
@@CptMuttonchops You are so wrong it's sad. No controller customization utility can do even 1% of what Steam Input can do. And the trackpad being usable bu your thumb (like a thumbstick) makes all the difference on the Steam Controller/Deck.
The Steam Controller changed everything for me. If there is no Steam Controller 2, I will quit gaming forever when my existing 3 steam controllers are no longer usable .
For fighting games they have lever-less controllers like the Hitbox and Mixbox which are pretty cool. It's almost like a keyboard, but with an arcade stick layout.
They also came out with a controller called the cross-up, which has a lever but also some buttons above the standard face buttons which are additional movement buttons, which when combined with the movement from the lever, it can potentially make moves that are generally harder to do a bit more easier.
Dope video! I personally must give massive props to the Switch's Joycon. The fact that a joycon pair will give you a full controller experience, but then separated can each still provide nearly a full controller's functionality (albeit an uncomfortable one), is incredible.
I feel like the Steam Deck has refine the use of track pads, while still making the buttons, sticks and control pad easy enough to use. It makes using mouse controls on an handheld device much more tolerable than mapping them to a control stick, and they can also function well as dial controls when set up right.
In all honesty, it's hard to say if controllers have actually peaked at this point, but most of them are pretty much playing it safe with only a few minor improvements. But Valve does seem to be improving on making them work as a substitute for PC gaming and usability.
Gyro controls are fine haptic feedback are great additions found in at least the Steam Controller and Switch controllers. Both controllers actually have places where the haptics are used as speakers which is always a delight to hear. Aside from that, there are also back buttons that seem to be gaining popularity, and an addition on the Switch and _Stadia_ controllers which I hope becomes standard: the capture button for easy screenshots and short clips. The Stadia Controller in general, while lacking gyro controls, has an extra system button over the Switch which I've found to actually be very useful for emulation where it can be mapped to an additional hotkey or to a point on the DS/3DS touch screen.
I'm still very fond of the GameCube controller's layout and would love to get a hold of a controller with its shape, but with all the bells and whistles found on controllers since then, including thumbstick buttons. This is why I was so excited for the Panda controller when it was revealed, though that sadly didn't actually go anywhere. I don't even play Smash and I could tell that that was the perfect controller for me.
- hall sensor sticks ?
- mousewheel instead of R1 or R2 ?
- underside buttons ?
- more ergonomic hand design ?
- actually good dpads ?
- how about some quality XY AB buttons instead of membrane garbage ?
Oh yeah. "Perfected".
Thanks
The analogue controller for the Saturn was more or less made for Nights but could be used with all sorts of games. Spielberg apparently loved it so they named the controller after him. Miyamoto also really liked Nights. Go figure.
Spielbergs nickname is 3d controller?
Far from it, we have yet to implement vibrations in every aspect we can, and more face/back buttons can be placed, battery life can always be improved, and Dpads still got a long way to go to become perfect. IMO we also have a long way to go for implementing add ons like keyboards and even a modern VMU for on the go extra mini games for bonus rewards when plugged back in. so many things to implement and I didnt even get to the modularity aspect they need to focus on.
I feel like back buttons might become standard at some point to give more options (especially since controllers still can't jump and look around without something like a bumper jumper setup unlike keyboards and mice).
Or unless you use the claw grip
@@Un1234l I suppose
Seeing Classic Game Room referenced is mindblowing. Very underrated youtuber from back in the day.
the wii u pro controller is underrated. i really like the positions of its sticks. other then that dont forget we now have special controllers with mappable buttons on the back.
I like the sticks up there, but i think that the buttons and D-Pad are too close, that's one of the reasons why i like the Gamepad so much.
Agreed. The whole system itself is criminally underrated. Aside from some great exclusives I even preferred to play multi plattform games on my Wii U because I really enjoyed the implementation of the second screen. Having a map or inventory open and accessible all the time was a great quality of life feature.
I’d love a Wii U Pro controller that’s compatible with the PC
I really love your Videos. You are one of my favorite Content Creators on UA-cam. Everything you do is authentic, informative and very funny. I’m glad that I discovered you. You know how to put a smile on my face !!
It's funny to see how things like the SNES and Genesis controllers gave birth to the PlayStation controller
And how the N64 stick inspired the PS1 Dual Shock controller and boom, peak. Even the Xbox controller got it right in the second attempt trying to get what the GameCube and PS2 controllers did right. Feels like it was all a collaborative of everyone to reach where we are today.
... And then you have Nintendo that just flip around all the time
Eh, I'd argue that the OG XBox controller got it more right then the GameCube, especially the later S model. The small C stick and the fact neither were clickable was pretty limiting.
Something I have always considered was that the Wii controller was a revisiting of the N64 controller. The three handles were to allow for play of new 3d games with the analog stick as well as classic style games with the d pad, even though hardly any games ever ended up using it.
Fast forward to the Wii and you have the nunchuck for playing modern 3d games and the single sideways wii remote with its D pad for playing simpler and classic styled games.
The Switch Joycon are that same idea but even further refined.
I don’t think they’re gonna get worse, but I doubt they can get much better.
tbh, at least mechanically speaking they have gotten worse already,
the potentiometers used in modern controllers are super prone to wearing out causing stick drift,
buttons have lower quality standards and are considerably more mushy as well (like, im not opposed to rubber domes but my xbox one controller was like so fucking bad)
I think that standard controllers are a long way from peaking. It's clear that due to the recent trend in paddles on the backs of controllers that having half of the buttons be actuated by 1 thumb is illogical when you have 8 fingers that can operate buttons on the back. If I could design a controller, I would move every button to the back and make controllers more spherical (like how your hands are when you hold them together in front of you) and then simply move the analog sticks to be under your thumbs and the dpad in between them to be accessed by either hand. It also frees up room for bigger batteries, stronger internal structures, and easier service/repair.
For me, the GameCube controller is almost peak design. It feels nice to hold, solid build, the button and trigger feedback/sound is perfect, and having the face buttons surround the A button just feels ergonomically right.
But it gets held back by not having 2 Z buttons, the D pad is way too small and I hit the wrong directions more times than right, and the C stick should of been the same size as the analog stick to be a true secondary stick, rather than a glorified d pad.
Other than the giant a button, you just described an Xbox controller.
I think the c stick was fine and should be standard on all controllers it was so much better for quick use or directional flick button style than analog.
@@erueka6 I didn't care for it much myself, I like the more modern interpretations of a joystick. Love your profile pic by the way, Nirvash unlimited was freaking awesome. Eureka 7 is one of my all-time favorite anime.
I loved the Gamecube at the time, but the layout of the buttons was honestly pretty limiting for game design. The Gamecube layout places way more important on the A button for some bizarre reason. It's also harder to press two buttons at the same time. I never had the classic controller, so I remember trying to play Super Mario World on the Wii using the Gamecube controller. And it was impossible. It was impossible jump while running because of the poor layout of buttons. On newer pro controllers it's easy though. I'm so glad Nintendo stopped insisting on being weird.
@@missingLEGACY but it had a stiffer spring that made it return to zero so much smoother and snappy and the nub not being capped and being smaller than the thumb had more finer directional access and I never said to remove the standard analog just move a bit around and you could get a smaller but decent one in a good spot for the right thumb. And funny thing about that picture I only saw the last 2 episodes of that series a really long time ago and it's been my profile since I made this account like in 06 or something.
Might already have been mentioned, but the "single shoulder button" on the Mega Drive six button controller isn't really a button as such. It's just a toggle switch to turn off the six button functionality for a few games that don't like six button mode. And it's not functional during games - you have to hold it during boot.
The steam decks, touchpad/joystick hybrid thing, is definitely a step into evolving the game controller. Wouldn’t be surprised if that becomes the next big thing
The original Steam controller didn't catch on with its two haptic touch pads, so I'm pretty sceptical about that
@@lexacutable the original steam controller only had a joystick, which limited its usefulness, even if you could configure on of the trackpads to take its place.
A hypothetical steam controller 2 would be best of both worlds. Dual sticks, plus dual haptic feedback trackpads would effectively.solve all of the original controllers issues.
It's kinda funny how the N64 controller and the infamous "Duke" for the Xbox got laughed at, but were the first steps towards a controller built for someone taller that 4 feet tall.
I would like a 6 button controller, makes things like SF or other fighters easier to manage. I think Xbox as their black/white buttons was a nice step.
I can see what you're getting at with fighters, so like a custom variant specifically for that would make sense, but as a controller expected to be used for all games, I feel it's better that they made the black and white buttons the bumpers. Most non fighter games would not use six different face buttons often enough for it to warrant them all being there. I remember it being a problem I regularly encountered with the original Xbox as a teenager.
I use 1997 model PS1 Dual Shocks for everything, via adapters. Best d-pad ever, while most controllers have inexcusable d-pads (or it's placed in the secondary position). I know it gets tricky when emulating games with button sensitivity, but the same adapters also work with the inferior PS2 pads, if ever needed.
My favorite of all time is easily the Series X, it feels so sturdy and solid in the hands, and I greatly prefer the staggered analog sticks over PlayStations more symmetrical layout
The Saturn controller has the best d pad. My mind cannot be changed
I actually prefer the wiiu pro controller over the switch one and got an adapter so that I could use it.
Everybody always gives it up to N64 for introducing joysticks, but the Saturn 3D controller was out a full month before the N64 was released. Facts.
No, NiD came before the N64 only in EU (September 1996 vs March 1997), in the rest of the world, and firstly in japan, the 64 came before (64: June 1996, NiF: July 1996).
Yoh, who would really like you were right...
I don't think controllers will have fundamental layout changes for a long time. As you said, the controllers change with the experiences we get. What do we have today? An industry dominated by remakes, reimaginings, remasters and open world, game as a service Assassin's Creed/GTA clones. Creativity is scarce and unprofitable. We may have a gimmick or two here and there but the controls will remain the same because the entertainment industry in general isn't interested in real innovation.
I don't think it's a lack of innovation, as much as it's just difficult to imagine something more complex than three dimensions, because that's what we live in, and as far as a three-dimensional world is concerned it is hard to get a better controller than what they've established over the past 30 years, short of trying to perfect VR controllers. But VR is a gimmick that not as many consumers are on board with yet, so it's hard to warrant the development that would go into creating them.
I'm still waiting for a controller that has the Saturn D-pad and 6 button layout with dual analog sticks and shoulder buttons
I think that ergonomics-wise controller design has peaked. But there are still ways to improve controllers in general. For example it would be really practical if back buttons would become standard and if Microsoft ever implements gyro sensors into the Xbox controller, things like gyro aiming can become a standard and change the way people use controllers.
Gyro should never become standard.
i agree so much. gyro aiming is so good it's sad to see the number of people that still think it's a gimmick. it's literaly just better than two sticks for precision
@@tarantinoish If you‘ve ever played a Zelda game on Wii U or Switch you wouldn’t say that, aiming with bow and arrow for example is so much more intuitive if you can adjust your aim by slight tilting, of course only for the fine-tuning since the big movements are obviously easier with sticks. What I‘m saying is for some uses it just enhances the gameplay as long as it’s not needlessly shoved in, but we’re past the Wii era for a long time now so that shouldn’t be an issue anymore.
While no controller will be perfect for every game, here's 3 improvements that can be made:
1. *Back Buttons/Paddles*
Controlling all the face buttons, d-pad, and both sticks with just your thumbs is too much. Well-positioned buttons or paddles on the back allow for better multi-tasking, and more efficient and quick execution.
2. *Better Pointer Tech*
Anyone who's played a simulation or shooter game on both PC and console knows the pain of losing precise pointer control. Analog sticks can't cut it. The physicality of moving the mouse either needs to be adapted or recreated for these games on console.
Track pads seem like they get closer to the fine control of a mouse, and gyro controls have gained fans as a supplement to analog sticks. But neither is a full replacement.
Baring console manufacturers adding or expanding mouse support, I think the way this will be implemented has yet to be invented, or at least widely adapted. Perhaps one solution could be a nub on an area of track pad, where the nub can be freely moved within that area. I don't know how (or if) that could be accomplished, but I imagine it could recreate a mouse's pointer controls in miniature.
And finally, for PC gamers:
3. *Adding an Analog Stick for Movement in 3D*
While a mouse is best for looking around and aiming in a 3D space, movement with WASD keys is always trumped by an analog stick. This is why I'm a fan of computer mice that have an analog stick on the side, or perhaps having a truncated keypad & stick for a person's off-hand.
As with back buttons/paddles, there are already a couple mice with analog sticks on the market. However, I would like to see those because more standard, and better designed.
Since you added the Wii U and switch, which are handheld hybrids, we can now talk about the steam deck. It improves upon the previous steam controller with a touch screen, two square thingies for the mouse replacement, the standard buttons plus 4 back buttons and gyro controls. All highly cuatomizable by the community and easily sharable
I was disappointed not to see a mention of the steam deck controller. Only controller I actually use nowadays with how good it is.
For me the 360 is just peak, nothing has really felt like a particularly big improvement since but the ps4 one is also nice
I was not expecting a comparison video on controllers of all things.
I think controllers have peaked, but VR will be a game changer. It will be interesting if VR expands more
Truth is I don't see most people who will be willing to spend hundreds on a peripheral that only supports a handful of games. At this point the PSVR 2 is DOA when the headset itself costs more than the console.
I don't know that vr shit gives me a headache
@Eddie W. True. Being expensive doesn't help. And PSVR2 has wires. After how the Oculus Quest 2 was made without needing wires, they should have made the PSVR2 like that.
I can't play VR, i get dizzy and most games would need to be first person for the effect to work, i think that the future is a matter of interactivity, that focusing on customization (Steam Controller) and new camera perspectives (Wii U Gamepad), but idk how to make both those things work.
Nobody wants to wear no damn headgear over their head like a little ass kid to play games. It will never catch on with the masses
Best controller hands down is the GameCube controller, I like the joysticks that you can twirl around and make a sound, I like the left and right triggers, the different shapes and sizes for the buttons including a big A button
Even though I personally don't care about xbox controllers, I do hope they include a gyroscope in a future revision. I would like gyro aiming to be capable on all systems and not just switch, ps4, ps5, pc, and mobile (especially since it could quell the aim assist crossplay discussion because it's a good mouse alternative)
Yeah man gyro is still so misunderstood
for fps, strategy, keyboard and mouse
for others, any controller will do, i dont play on consoles since ps2, but i guess i would have no problem if i pick one up
When playing Hogwarts legacy, I keep thinking it's one of the very few games that would benefit from the Wii U controller
honestly i think the steam deck controller is the next thing companies should go for
the 4 back paddles and dual trackpads are really useful, especially when the right one gets mapped to a joystick for even more precision
i wish valve made a steam controller 2 that was the steam deck controller but without the screen in the middle (but still with gyro, haptics, etc.)
The steam controller is amazing. A redesign based on the steam deck form factor could be a game changer and unlock the full potential of a docked steam deck. I would buy one instantly.
I miss the GCN C-Stick.
It’s better than a traditional joystick when used for anything but dual stick movement. When it’s used as a ability shortcut or selection wheel it’s perfect. I miss the notches :(
Outside of gimmick additions(touch pads, motion sensors etc) in gaming's current landscape there is no reason to assume it will change drastically.
They aren't gimmicks it's just devs don't bother to implement them..have you even played Astros play room to see what it can actually do?and how it feels when it's done right
1:35 "Nintendo took their control schemes from their arcade games and adapted them to their first home console"
DK Arcade: Joystick and three face buttons.
Famicom/NES: D-Pad, two face buttons plus start and select.
I agree that overall there isn't much else we can do to improve controllers, however not mentioning back buttons or the steam deck seems like an oversight. Nothing the steam decks controls have is new, however it's a culmination of the latest innovations in controls executed extremely well. Gyro, dual track pads, and 4 rear buttons. If they made a steam controller 2 with all the features of the deck then it'd be game over, nowhere to go but down. Besides that the only innovations in controllers I could see is in the vr space but still vr isn't and can't replace all traditional games
In my opinion, nothing compares to the feeling of playing with unrestricted hand movements, and for me, the Wii's nunchuck and remote configuration was the pinnacle of gaming controllers. The freedom to move each hand independently added a level of immersion and control that I have not found in any other controller.
If you loved it, you should play VR, takes that kind of experience further.
What are your thoughts on joycons? Also yeah VR controllers are crazy
The 360 controller has to be the most comfortable controller I ever used. The only other I can compare to it is the Switch Pro controller.
Yeah I agree - only issue with 360 controller for me is the analogue sticks seem to wear out fast (at least they do by the time I get to buy them second hand!) so need replacing with nice metal ones that won't erode with use. But yeah it is super comfy. I grew up with PS1... so I always find controllers without proper "handles" to be awkward to use. ie SNES, master system, etc...
I need to correct one thing in the start: there's one major internal difference in the Playstation controllers since the original Dualshock that has been constantly changing, analog buttons. The original Dualshock was fully digital, every button was either pressed or not pressed with the exception of the sticks that were analog. The Dualshock 2, the Sixaxis and the Dualshock 3 had every button analog, as in even the d-pad had gradations of pressing, only exceptions where start and select. You can even see this in action in the racing games of the PS2 that allowed you to gradually accelerate with X by pressing harder or softer, or Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, which allow you to lift the gun by pressing square half way and shoot by pressing it all the way down.. The Dualshock 4 and the Dualsense don't have the analog d-pad and face buttons, but keep the analog triggers for racing games and are even getting some new uses with the Dualsense's trigger motors, like in Returnal that allows a half press of L2 for aiming your gun to be marked by the motor resisting, and a full press be the alternate shot.
That's a pretty major difference in internal complexity and functionality of the controllers.
Loved that pressure sensitive function, the PS2 Ace Combat used it to great effect with 6 of the 8 buttons being used in that mode. Sadly many multi platform games didn't take advantage of the feature, some didn't even allow it to be used even as just gas/brake (Midnight Club 3 comes to mind). Test Drive Eve of Destruction is a really weird one though, analog gas/brake isn't available on the X/Square buttons, but in the paint shop lightly pressing X has a different effect then pushing it hard.
I think the modern Xbox Series controller is the peak of controller evolution and refinement. Perfectly sized/shaped and no weird gimmicks.
I fully agree with this opinion. I just wish they would give you the four button d-pad the PlayStation has as opposed to the dish d pad. I have large hands so it's very easy for me to get directions wrong if I'm using the d-pad.
Really wish it had gyro though.
If you're referring to the ps5 controllers features as gimmicks its clear you don't have one lmao
I will edit this if it's covered but the fgc is having an interesting question over controllers right now, so even if standard pack ins have peaked I think there is so much more for us to explore.
The Ps5, Xbox, and Switch Pro Controllers are all great. However, screw microsoft for still working with batteries.
Man you overlooked so many details.
I get people playing on a console don’t see use for playstation controllers’ trackpad and gyro, because no games take good advantage of it and you have ZERO options on console to do anything, but on pc you can actually set those things up with useful actions that improve your control and gameplay.
No mention of the dualsense controller’s adaptive triggers, which can be used to mimic dual stage triggers like the gamecube and steam controller have(idk people always bring up dualstage triggers).
People mention the steam controller as something so customizable but don’t understand that steam input is open to almost any controller, so pretty much any controller connected to steam have the exact same options.
It's kinda insane how a Playstation controller has more freedom on pc than on a Playstation console itself.
the 360 controller was the peak, the plastic felt so good.
I prefer the Xbox One controller because I have bigger hands, and the 360 controller just feels a little too small for me.
D-Pads peaked with the Sega Saturn, ergonomics peaked with the GameCube.
It doesn't really get any better than the Xbox Series controllers design wise. I use it for pretty much every system that accepts it.
Well, I can imagine. Personally, I use an Xbox One controller for Indie games, LEGO games and MAME. Also fighting games on PC. It is so amazing.
As a women with small hands, I really prefer the dualsense or older GameCube controller over the Xbox series
@@Highretrogamelord The Xbox One controllers are awesome aswell. Though I prefer the slimmer form factor and ergonomics of the Series controllers.
@@draaijman Yeah, that can be a problem for some people. I also don't have the biggest hands but I can manage the Xbox controllers just fine.
@@draaijman The dualsense is bigger than the xbox controller though...
2:03 Meanwhile Sega's SG-1000 just had a joystick. Sega was really chasing trends before the Genesis... I mean the SG-3000 was just an attempt to sell the SG-1000 to Europe's PC game console market (which oddly excluded the UK for some reason but also included Australia and NZ even though they already sold the SG-1000 in Australia).
Controllers are fucking garbage. They're not going anywhere because of money and complacency
The complacency is the fucking worst,
I hate the mentality of it not broke then don't fix mentally to controllers because in all reality they are now showing flaws,
In modern day with cross play, its is more important to controllers players to have a even playing field with m&k,
Compared to m&k ur aim speed and procession is considerably lacking to the point of the game sitcking your aim to target (aim assist). Lack of buttons sucks to when u can't play most mil Sims & RTS & mobas on controlled due to a lack of keybinds,
The funny thing is the perfect controller design was a steam controller, it had an answer for all these problems(there a lot of good praise I could say for this controller)
I swear by the steam controller as a true next gen controller design, fuck dual analog
@@brennanvillao i wish they'd introduced the hall effect analog sticks as standard. Of course, a product that's specifically designed to turn into e-waste after a month is more profitable. *Because that's how it should work*
Yeah it's complacency on both consumer and producer. I saw a video the other day where the guy was saying the xbox controller is holding back gaming but the comment's were clowning him even though he was right.
Nintendo and Playstation have continued to add new features to their controllers(even tho some are insignificant) meanwhile xbox controllers have been the same since the 360.
Like gyro should've been a standard by now but it's not since devs won't implement since xbox controllers still don't have gyroscopes.
They peaked so hard that they don't really exist anymore.