What is the make and model of the brass holder you are using in this video? I have never annealed brass due to the high cost of the annealers but this seems like a reasonable option.
Sorry dude, you're not annealing your cases at all. Nowhere near hot enough. At best your achieving a very slight stress relieve. If the block holder you're using is a neat fit, take the case up to a good solid cherry red for a second or 2. The case head should not be affected. Just try it. Notice how much easier it sizes & note how much less neck tension when bullet seating. It doesn't damage the brass, that's all BS & I don't know where that rubbish started. Just try it with 5 cases. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
@Andrew There's been a 1/2 dozen or so studies done, conducted by physicists commissioned to do the work. One particularly interesting study was commissioned by Remington, if memory serves however, although that study contains the same annealing time vs temp data, the focus of that study was on C26000 70/30 cartridge brass annealing during drawing & forming operations of cartridges. In this instance, these cartridge manufacturers need only a limited but specific amount of annealing between operations. The most applicable study to us &, easiest to read, is that of Harold.L.Walker of the University of Illinois. You can download "GRAIN SIZES PRODUCED BY RECRYSTALLIZATION & COALESCENCE IN COLLED-ROLLED CARTRIDGE BRASS" In answering your question concerning the time frame. I stated a couple of seconds because you don't have the case head in water. A mid to bright cherry red should be somewhere between 550 C & 700 C which, from my own experimentation, gives some reasonable recrystallization at those temps. I know for a fact that, 550 C at 3.9 seconds does not affect the case head because that is one of AMP's published annealing temp/time programs. I'm sure they'd go much hotter if they could but, they are limited with the case head not being in water. I anneal with the base in water &, take my shoulder/necks up to around 700 to 800 or maybe more. At 700 C, 100% recrystallization is thought to be instantaneous but, definitely achieved by 5 seconds. My cases glow a strong cherry/orange for a minimum of 5 seconds but usually around 8 to 10 seconds. I've found no case damage & neck tension during bullet seating is fantastic. I've done preliminary firings of loaded ammo but, haven't yet had the opportunity to conduct velocity ladder testing or seating depth testing.
@Andrew Maybe you can download the study, read it, & stop being difficult. It's all there in the report. Testing methods & results. Page 44; Table 10..........At 350C recrystallization takes 240 minutes at 50.4 % deformation. No result with less than 50.4% deformation. Page 37; Table 9..............At 300C recrystallization not shown to complete within 336 hours. Tables are listed in 50C intervals up to 700 C. I can't imagine what Hornady are telling people but, AMP has their 223 Rem recipe listed on their website. 550 C (1022 F) for 3.9 seconds. Maybe you want to tell them they're wrong. Now, there's no need to get all head up because you're wrong. I was in your very position not so long ago. The important thing is to make sure we do know what we're talking about. Kind regards...............Rotas.
@@whliving I take the neck & shoulder to about 3rd the way down the case body to a very bright red/pink for 2 to 3 seconds. As long as the brass is at or above 700 c the brass will become 100% recrystallized which, is NOT fully annealed to anywhere near as soft as it will go. That takes many hours at 700 c. I've been annealing cases this way for about 4 year & have had absolutely no issues or problems. I've annealed a batch of cases over 20x like this & no problems, no donuts, no split necks, the cases FLS easily & precisely & bullet seating is between 20 to 40 Lbs depending on neck ID & runout is excellent because the low seating force maintains straight seating. Many years ago I worked in a copper & brass factory & worked extensively with the annealing ovens. I programmed the anneal times & temps for different hardness & malleability factors for sheet, rod & pipe. Case manufacturers don't want or need the brass to be too malleable due to handling within the factory & shipping & transportation but, reloaders don't have to concern ourselves with those issues so we can have the brass where we need it which is more malleable. If you look at all the annealing vids with a couple exceptions, they no nothing of brass annealing or what it takes to achieve it. They have no idea of the time vs temp curves required to achieve effective annealing & don't know about recrystallization or what it is. If you're interested I will note the titles of some very pertinent scientific studies conducted on 70/30 brass.
What is the make and model of the brass holder you are using in this video? I have never annealed brass due to the high cost of the annealers but this seems like a reasonable option.
Anneal Rite; runs around 150ish
Very good video
Why is somebody telling you that you are not doing it right.Many many professional shooters are doing it very similar
Sorry dude, you're not annealing your cases at all. Nowhere near hot enough. At best your achieving a very slight stress relieve.
If the block holder you're using is a neat fit, take the case up to a good solid cherry red for a second or 2. The case head should not be affected.
Just try it. Notice how much easier it sizes & note how much less neck tension when bullet seating.
It doesn't damage the brass, that's all BS & I don't know where that rubbish started.
Just try it with 5 cases. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
@Andrew There's been a 1/2 dozen or so studies done, conducted by physicists commissioned to do the work.
One particularly interesting study was commissioned by Remington, if memory serves however, although that study contains the same annealing time vs temp data, the focus of that study was on C26000 70/30 cartridge brass annealing during drawing & forming operations of cartridges. In this instance, these cartridge manufacturers need only a limited but specific amount of annealing between operations.
The most applicable study to us &, easiest to read, is that of Harold.L.Walker of the University of Illinois.
You can download "GRAIN SIZES PRODUCED BY RECRYSTALLIZATION & COALESCENCE IN COLLED-ROLLED CARTRIDGE BRASS"
In answering your question concerning the time frame. I stated a couple of seconds because you don't have the case head in water. A mid to bright cherry red should be somewhere between 550 C & 700 C which, from my own experimentation, gives some reasonable recrystallization at those temps. I know for a fact that, 550 C at 3.9 seconds does not affect the case head because that is one of AMP's published annealing temp/time programs. I'm sure they'd go much hotter if they could but, they are limited with the case head not being in water.
I anneal with the base in water &, take my shoulder/necks up to around 700 to 800 or maybe more. At 700 C, 100% recrystallization is thought to be instantaneous but, definitely achieved by 5 seconds. My cases glow a strong cherry/orange for a minimum of 5 seconds but usually around 8 to 10 seconds. I've found no case damage & neck tension during bullet seating is fantastic. I've done preliminary firings of loaded ammo but, haven't yet had the opportunity to conduct velocity ladder testing or seating depth testing.
@Andrew Maybe you can download the study, read it, & stop being difficult. It's all there in the report. Testing methods & results.
Page 44; Table 10..........At 350C recrystallization takes 240 minutes at 50.4 % deformation. No result with less than 50.4% deformation.
Page 37; Table 9..............At 300C recrystallization not shown to complete within 336 hours.
Tables are listed in 50C intervals up to 700 C.
I can't imagine what Hornady are telling people but, AMP has their 223 Rem recipe listed on their website. 550 C (1022 F) for 3.9 seconds. Maybe you want to tell them they're wrong.
Now, there's no need to get all head up because you're wrong. I was in your very position not so long ago. The important thing is to make sure we do know what we're talking about.
Kind regards...............Rotas.
Seriously guys.
So, how do you anneal?
@@whliving I take the neck & shoulder to about 3rd the way down the case body to a very bright red/pink for 2 to 3 seconds. As long as the brass is at or above 700 c the brass will become 100% recrystallized which, is NOT fully annealed to anywhere near as soft as it will go. That takes many hours at 700 c.
I've been annealing cases this way for about 4 year & have had absolutely no issues or problems. I've annealed a batch of cases over 20x like this & no problems, no donuts, no split necks, the cases FLS easily & precisely & bullet seating is between 20 to 40 Lbs depending on neck ID & runout is excellent because the low seating force maintains straight seating.
Many years ago I worked in a copper & brass factory & worked extensively with the annealing ovens. I programmed the anneal times & temps for different hardness & malleability factors for sheet, rod & pipe.
Case manufacturers don't want or need the brass to be too malleable due to handling within the factory & shipping & transportation but, reloaders don't have to concern ourselves with those issues so we can have the brass where we need it which is more malleable.
If you look at all the annealing vids with a couple exceptions, they no nothing of brass annealing or what it takes to achieve it. They have no idea of the time vs temp curves required to achieve effective annealing & don't know about recrystallization or what it is.
If you're interested I will note the titles of some very pertinent scientific studies conducted on 70/30 brass.