TV Antenna Signal Splitting Mistake. (This Video Is Worthless Unless You See Follow Up Video.)
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- • This Splitter Blocks A...
After making this video, I later learned the reason my signals were not strong enough for each TV was due to using the wrong kind of splitter known as a diplexer. Not because I used to many splitters as I first thought. Had I know this I would not have needed to use a distribution amplifier. I describe the details of my mistake in this video link.
• This Splitter Blocks A...
After making this video, I was informed by a youtuber as to why my TV signals were to weak for all 3 TVs. It turned out that I used the wrong kind of splitter known as a diplexer, and I made a follow up video about my mistake at this link. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
I was told to split your coax from the antenna only once and only use a splitter that meets your needs without un-needed extra ports. Keep in mind your signal must be useable at the splitter input or else you're just splitting noise. If your signal is weak at the splitter input, use a pre-amp (at the antenna) and matching amp (indoors) ahead of the splitter. If you have long runs you can add on an amplified splitter like the Channel Master in this video. This arrangement has always done well for me.
I've often placed passive signal splitters far from the TV antennas and they seemed to work okay, but if it helps to have the splitter close to the antenna I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the tips.
Love your lofi teaching methods, true and honest to the point. I guess the only way to analyse your efforts would be through a speccy as we can't visually see the quality of the connection.
Thanks. :-) There's nothing like learning in the school of hard knocks.
Couple wire has a lot of internal resistance when running long lengths that's going to kill your signal right away however I see that you found the solution good to know.
Try the same experiment with three TVs and different lengths of coax. This is just going to one TV!
Some high-end DA's have cable length equalization circuits (or gain pots) for each output that can also improve the signal quality (uniformity to each TV RF input).
Feeding multiple locations using splitters, instead use TV signal taps. You may need to amplify the antenna only if the signal level is not strong enough by itself.
I remember last century the for LAN 10 mbps with coaxial cable: each end needs a terminator (BNC-T connectors and two BNC terminators).
Yes. Always terminate loads
I see it is over a year old but to help anyone out. The cable lengths do have loss. However, you didn't have a second output on each spitter so there was no load. Yoou'll find if you hook a load (TV) to both inputs the signal will drop.
It's More than cable length having loss that causes problems. There are reflections in the line which can cause issues. Here is my concluding video on why I ran into problems. ua-cam.com/video/_5ul0KfoewA/v-deo.html
Thanks I enjoyed this. My TV pixels up from time to time. May I ask when I run my multimeter across the Antenna incoming coax feed I get a tone, or reading (using 200ohm setting). Is this normal? Shouldnt the TV antenna be open circuit? Thx Tim
thanks for information and sharing.👍👍👍👍👍
Those satellite DC passing splitter you showed at 1:50 video aren't splitters! At least not in a conventional splitter sense. Those are satellite diplexers which are designed to send both TV and Satellite signals down the same coax. That Sat output (on the lower left of the video) only passes signals above 1GHz (and DC to power the LNB). The TV output on the lower right has everything below (usually 5MHz to 850MHz). Since TV stations operate below 850MHz, the only TV that is going to get a signal is the first one because the Sat output on the first splitter doesn't have any TV signals on it.
Thank you so much for this information. That's probably where I went wrong. I did not realize TV signals would be blocked on the DC side, but I just tried an experiment using the DC side of the splitter and you're correct. When I saw how the splitter said 5 to 2400 MHZ I assumed that meant both sides.
Easy mistake to make with the type of diplexer you have. The Diplexers I use have 5-850MHz written on TV side and 950-2150MHz printed on the SAT output along with the Power Pass. Diplexers are no longer compatible with many satellites systems. I use them mainly to send MoCa (Ethernet via Caox) and Cable TV down the same coax.
@@highfidelityinc This is good to know. Do you know if some of the Diplexers able to pass the TV frequencies on the DC side as well?
I think you will find that all Diplexers will block TV frequencies on the DC side. All diplexers will have a SAT and a TV output. So if it doesn't have a jack name TV and SAT, it is probably a normal splitter. What you really need is a regular splitter with a DC pass. You might look at www.solidsignal.com/tv-antennas-and-parts/signal-splitters . Some splitters will pass DC on all ports. Others will pass DC on just some ports. And then other splitters will block DC on all ports. It looks like the P\N: PV23-402 and HFS-2 will do what you want.
@@highfidelityinc Thanks for the help. I made a follow up video where I shared some of the information you shared. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
That's almost exactly how I set up my antenna cables using 2 splitters. I live in the city with strong signals, so the signals were (apparently) not affected at all and got all channels I wanted in all terminals.
Sometimes trial and error is the method that teaches the best. We have 3 TVs that use one antenna. The shielded coax from the antenna goes into a amplifier that has four outputs. One output goes to a TV in a living room right next to the antenna pole. Another output goes to a 50 ft coax cable that runs under the house and to a 2nd amp similar to the first one. Then the two TVs in the back rooms are connected to that amp. I eventually connected an FM tuner to the first amp to improve FM reception, since there were more outputs available. I learned to always use a multi-output amp in place of a splitter.
I use distribution amps when necessary, but I prefer not to since it's one more thing that can go bad at some point. Hopefully you saw my follow up video I made after this one.
@@GrantsPassTVRepair I just watched it. I don't used amps powered by a DC pass-thru. Only amps that have their own dedicated power supply. Same thing with a rotor, I wouldn't use one powered through the coax cable, and some antennas have those kind of built in rotors. An Amp can burn out for sure, but it's rare for modern ones to do that if they are quality ones. I had a cheap one burn out on me about 12 years ago and swore off the cheap ones. And it's still easy to trace if that happens.
@@themoviemaniac8416 "if they are quality one" is an issue with amplifiers. Almost all the ones one the market are the same design from the same factory with different labels stuck on them to make them different brands like "super mega TV amplifier" and they are all the same junk. Buy good known brand ones only.
The 2 way splitter you show first is marked as 5 to 2400 Mhz. This would cover the entire spectrum of the entire TV band. Part of the problem may be the way it is wired internally. Some units use capacitor, coil or wire circuitry. Capacitors will block the flow of DC and some of the higher or lower frequencies depending on the value of the capacitor. At TV frequencies, the capacitor will be quite small. Coils will not block DC nor 60 hz AC but will attenuate certain higher frequencies and will be quite small. But since the splitter has a lower frequency limit (under 1 Ghz) there is probably a capacitor/coil combination in a pi network, and maybe two of them, to block frequencies lower than 1 Ghz.
Also, the terminators need to be used to prevent standing waves. Standing waves occur when signals of equal frequency travel in opposite directions on the cable, one from the antenna and one being reflected from any thing that is on the cable that is not of the characteristic impedance of the cable. If they come together anywhere in the middle of the cable, they can tend to cancel each other out if their amplitudes are close to being equal. This is also the reason that there must be a matching transformer at the antenna's terminals. The antenna has a characteristic impedance of a balanced 300 ohms, while the cable an unbalanced 75 ohms. There would be standing waves created at that point, if not for the transformer, thereby attenuating the signal. The characteristic impedance of the transmission line must be the same along the entire length of the cable (including splitters, connectors and terminators) in order to transfer the maximum amount of signal to the TV Each piece of cable and each splitter introduces its own loss. Any loss on the cable must be over come BEFORE the signal gets to it.
I thought you might like to see this follow up video on antenna splitters. ua-cam.com/video/_5ul0KfoewA/v-deo.html
I see people do that all the time. They install a two way or four way splitter and then use a bunch of terminators. It's Not a good idea though. On a two way splitter you get 3.5 db of loss on each terminal. On a four way splitter you get 6.8 db of loss on each terminal. Sometimes more, sometimes less. It varies depending on the quality of the splitter. But generally that's the loss. Better option would be too use a grounding coupler or if you need multiple feeds then a distribution amplifier.
I hope you saw my follow up to this video. I had mistakenly used splitters which were designed to block television signals below 950 Mhz known as diplexers . ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
I am no fan of splitter, after splitter. I think you should had tried first a 3-way splitter, using the -3.5 dB port for the TV further away, unless it is balanced in which case it makes no difference what port you use.
This is a classical example on why you need to check first what is coming out of your antenna in order to determine if the signal can be split or not and how TV outlets it can take. Remember, garbage in, garbage out. If you had used a professional signal meter, you could have easily determined if you had readings good enough (power, MER, SNR, link margin, BER) to split the signal and the readings coming out from each splitter.
Also, If my readings were low and for test purposes I would have powered my preamp using the first TV coax cable (TV 1) to avoid going thru two splitters. The more things on the way, the more chances for failure.
Finally, if your distribution amplifier worked, it means you had good signal readings coming out from your antenna to your amp ANT inlet port.
Thanks a lot for your instructional video. We need more like that.
Ok great video and what I needed. I was with you till the splitter on table , then I was lost as to what where you put the sittets on realtion to tv's.
I have antenna on house preamp in basement with 2 tvs attached I wanted to add 3rd tv don't know where to put splitter on tv line, each tv. Help
Did you see the follow up to this video? Here is the link that may help you. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
Splitters vary in quality. You only need one bad one to eat your signal.
BTW: I get 127 channels from an antenna. Of them about 5 have something I might want to watch.
Yes, I've found that the length of COAX coming from a splitter has a lot to do with signal loss.. Once you have multiple splitters and/or Multiple lines even branching from even just one splitter being used, You will have signal loss once the COAX cabling is over 75 feet... Just something that I found out re-wiring my own house with COAX after the Original COAX wiring was ridiculously long branching of to multiple rooms.. ;)
You might enjoy this follow up video I made after learning more from one of my viewers. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
I'm running 110' of rg6 and 4 spliters. No issues even on the last tv and dvr. The only difference is that my power inserter is connected before all the spliters. Maybe that was the issue in your setup.
My Winegard-LNA-200-Preamplifier i put ther power inserter after 100 feet of cable in the celler and still have about 15 feet to the 4 way splitter ,
You don't want to send unwanted dc voltage to other units. DC inserter goes before any splitters.
@@jayvalentin5513My Winegard-LNA-200-Preamplifier i put ther power inserter after 100 feet of cable in the celler and still have about 15 feet to the 4 way splitter
in the house, lots of cable loss...in your shop no cable loss for 12 inches,,also i use rg 6 cable,,,maybe the house had rg 59
With RG-6, you lose .83 dB on 800 MHz, and 1.35 dB on 1900 MHz, per 10 ft of line. Ideally you would want you cables to be as short as the need to be, and refrain from splitting as much as possible. Of course the specs of the cable should be listed on the cable itself.
With all cable specs you have quality/power loss over long distances. Especially now with home internet being as fast as it is.
In your video,
- you first added a preamp with it's power inserter as per your diagram at the 1:05minute mark
- then you added the distribution amplifier which you said took care of the problem..
My question, since the preamp requires a power inserter + the distribution amplifier and also requires power and comes with its own power insertion AC block adapter..
In the end when you got all this working, 1) did you actually have two power inserters over the coax line (one for the preamp + one for the distr amp) ?
I ask because I would have thought all this power insertions would be a problem.
2) where exactly did you install the power distribution amplifier and how did you power it? Do you have a diagram or weblink that shows how the preamp & distribution amplifier were connected among the existing splitters as you have shown..
Thanks for a great video.
Did you happen to see the follow up video I made to this video? What solved my problem was removing all those splitters and installing a distribution amplifier which had one input and three outputs. Here is a link to my follow up video. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
One good solution is drop-taps rather than splitters. Whereas most splitters cut the signal in half, the taps "drop" a specific DB to each set, and send the remainder down-line. Sadly they are tough to find on the consumer level.
Thank you for this information. I've often wondered about the splitters I picked up that have different DB numbers for each output. It sounds as if this may be what you are talking about.
Can you please send me a link of that distribution amplifier greatly appreciated thank you.
It looks like that particular distribution amp is sold out, but you can probably find one on ebay. www.channelmaster.com/collections/antenna-distribution-amplifiers
@@GrantsPassTVRepair Amazon carries several different brands of distribution amplifiers, powered and unpowered.
Maybe Wire Lenght With Splitting? I Wonder Why It Would Be Like That, I Did Teh Oposite, I Put More Antennas To my radio Then I Should, I Put A 6 Meter Roof Long-Wire Antenna , Each Dipole Side Was 3 Meters, And I Connected ONE Side From A 75Cm Dipole Wich Was In 23 Meter High Over My Third Floor Even , I Got It Up There With A Fishing Pole So It Stands Theer And My Solution Top Not Shaking In The Wind Is Just Put It A Lil bit On One Side, Like Not perfectly Straight Up, But Tilt It A Lil Bit And The Shake In Wiond Is Just Gone, So The Signal Went Better When I Put Two Of These ANtennas To My radio For 2500Mhz To 10.000Mhz, But After This Frequency It Just Wa Terrible, Then I Disconected One And PERFECT Soo Yes, radio Waves Are One Hella Of A Thing, Super Interesting
Thanks. I don't think the coax had any brakes or shorts, but seeing how little loss I had with all of those splitters, I'm inclined to think the longer cable length may have caused unwanted reflections.
I’m not clear on the difference between an amplifier and pre amplifier. Can an amplifier be used as a pre amplifier? All of my antennas are in the attic and I have 120V available up there. Thanks
I mistakenly called the preamp an amplifier. As to the difference between an amp and a preamp I'm not sure. The distribution amplifier is supposed to keep the signal strong enough to overcome the signal losses, but I believe its gain is far less than a preamp.
@@GrantsPassTVRepair Both of them are amplifiers. The preamp (which in many countries is called a mast amplifier) has higher gain than a distribution amplifier and it amplifies signals right after the antenna. In order for a distribution amplifier to be useful, signals coming in must be strong enough to be amplified, otherwise garbage in, garbage out (gigo) and you will be amplifying noise.
All I know is the TV antenna amplifiers are called preamps. I'm not sure of the difference.
@@GrantsPassTVRepair OK mate, so a preamplifier will receive the signal directly from the aerial or antennae (depending where you are in the world and what you call it but both exactly the same thing). That pre amplifier is designed to dramatically increase the signal level by anything 20-30dB. It then sends that signal down to a splitting system or if needed, a distribution amplifier which in turn amplifies the signal again to cope with signal loss down the lengths of cable to the TV points. Now the key thing regarding the difference between a dist amp and a pre amp, is the dist amp would be mains powered directly, like plugged into a power socket in the loft or in a cupboard or something, depending where all the cables meet. The pre amplifier is obviously located out by the aerial, but it still needs power doesn't it. So it is powered either by a separate power supply unit or PSU which would be located normally at one of the TV outlet points. It sends power back up the coax to the pre amp powering it that way. Although i often use distribution amplifiers that send 12V back up the input cable to the pre amp, it depends on your situation. However, beware, there is such thing as too much signal or over load. You need to know the optimum signal levels for your countries broadcasting system and be familiar with using a spectrum analyzer to measure your signal levels going in and there fore coming out at the TV point. I hope I havent come across as patronizing and i hope this helps. I've been in the TV aerial installation field for 23 years. G Davies. Aardvark Installations. Check out my brand new UA-cam page Aardvark Installations where i will post helpful videos in this field.
@@GrantsPassTVRepair my Winegard-LNA-200-Preamplifier with 120 feet of run of cable ,You can't use another amp after the splitter there will be inteference from the outdoor amp at the antenna?
I think I might hire someone to install my antenna. Should I be confident that anyone who advertises that they do this, knows all about what you were talking about and more? Things like grounding, removing remaining directv splitters and amps, using the dialectrical gel etc?
I can't assume they would or wouldn't know what they are doing since I don't know their experience, but here's an additional video your installer may find helpful if they don't. ua-cam.com/video/_5ul0KfoewA/v-deo.html
Were you using RG6 or RG59?RG 59 does not pass uhf signal very well. A high DB loss above 500 MHZ. Many older homes were wired with 59
I was using RG6 in this case, but yes I was told to avoid RG59 due to its loss.
So what exactly was the final solution for the lady's three TVs...eg, what was the final schematic of cables, splitters, amp. etc?
I used a distribution amp to solve the problem, but had I known what I know now, I believe I could have used a passive splitter rather than a powered one. Did you see the follow up video I put a link to in the info section? I Talked about how I mistakenly used a diplexer not realizing they block TV signals. Here is the link. ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
The furthest run should come off the splitter directly from the antenna. The first & second TVs should be from another splitter on the other port of the antenna splitter
I have UHF antenna 30 feet high with Winegard-LNA-200-Preamplifier with 120 feet of run of cable connected to a 4 way splitter leave a short cable to main living room tv then 2 ,20 feet cables to other tvs in other rooms that also has 3 way to 3 tvs and 2 way spitters other 2 tvs.
Great video! Hey, my Dish Satellite has two coax cables that connect to a dual connector that’s attached to the house wall. How do I determine which connection to attach the single coax cable that runs from the OAT antenna? Or do I need to rip out the existing dual connector and replace with a single one? Appreciate your advice.
I don't know, but every time I attempt to use the old coax which was used for the satellite and attach it to an OTA antenna, I end up having to remove the diplexer which looks like a splitter because it blocks TV signals even though it has a DC pass through.
@@GrantsPassTVRepair what is the diplexer?
@@NavySWO They look like signal splitters but they are designed to block TV signals from passing through them and only allow the satellite signals to pass through the TV cable. Here is an example. www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DPD2&source=googleps&gclid=CjwKCAjwu5yYBhAjEiwAKXk_eI_FbTFtfjYEICllPwa9tL7b4uWB12meCy392vWZ93k2fMar9ovwgxoCT1AQAvD_BwE
I have five TVs in my cable system, a better solution is one multi port splitter. This one piece splitter has up to eight ports, it is nice because extra ports are there if you want to add anymore televisions. Naturally the unused ports will have 75 ohm cap on the end. Buy the way this is a no-brainer hook up all your TVs to the outputs of the multi port splitter, connect the single amplifier to the input wow magic.
Did you see this follow up video? ua-cam.com/video/rZhw0BEqyRE/v-deo.html
Is it possible to combine OTA TV and Spectrum TV? Ive recently "cut the wire" and I am trying to use my existing Coax cables in my rooms and keep Cable Internet(only). My current connection is connected through a PPC-9M-U/U splitter. Any input is appreciated 🙏
I've been told you can share the cable for both signals but I have not tried it yet. If you have success doing this I'd love to hear about it.
This is a year late, but check your Spectrum wi-fi 'tower' for ethernet ports, and your TV for similar. IF you plug in an ethernet cable the TV and wi-fi unit should 'find' each other. That's the way I'm doing it. TV is a 2014(?) Vizio SMARTcast. OTA antenna's coax is plugged directly into the TV's coax port. I use the TV remote to switch between the OTA antenna broadcast signal and the 'SMARTcast' function for internet streaming channels.
did u leavevthe pre amp inline with the big 110 splitter?
No preamp was needed here. just used a distribution amplifier without any splitters. My big mistake here was using diplexers to split the signal rather than conventional splitters. At that time I did not realize that diplexers which look like splitters are designed to block TV signals and only allow satellite signals to get through. Had I known what I know now, I believe I could have used passive splitters and it would have worked fine without having to use a powered distribution amplifier.
WOW Just WOW….