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New vs Old Large Format Cameras || Super Film Support
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
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I was fortunate enough to purchase a Sinar f1 2 yrs ago with 5 film holders, standard and bag bellows, and dark cloth for $250 shipped in absolutely pristine condition. Great seller and helpful. I was lucky, of course, but I still see Sinar F1 and similar cameras for $200-250, which is just amazing for these quality cameras.
recommendation starts at 7:52
large format is a game of patience 8:03
bigger is not better, it is just slower and more expensive 8:14 👌🏻
Totally agreed with you Nico, back in the days those vintage cameras are masterpiece of craftmanship with the best quality materials.
The fact those camera are still available today is the proof they're a real workhorse of equipments.
20 years ago I jumped from medium format to 4x5 on a whim. I passed a camera shop and saw a Devere monorail in a box for $400, came with two sinar lenses, Linhof tripod, multiple backs. I instantly went and got a Polaroid pro back and type 55 film. I used it up until the Polaroid film started to disappear, was the BEST film experience of my life 😢
After reading most of the comments, I just have to smile. Yes, Sinar, Deardorff, Linhof, etc. were used back in '60s, '70s, '80s, & so on. They were priced high, and some still are--mostly the flat bed, wooden cameras like Deardorff. New view cameras are not cheap, either. However, the monorail view cameras seem to have been devalued, probably because they don't fit the average person's idea of a view camera, and these cameras are cumbersome when used in the field. The new batch of photogs don't seem to value these monorail cameras. Oh well, their loss and for studio guys & gals like myself, our gain.
Thanks Nico. I think you make some valid points but....
I believe (I may be wrong) that the new wave of large format photographers generally want to carry the camera somewhere even if it is only a mile or two. As an example I have Sinar P and it is absolutely fabulous (the equivalent of owning a beat up 1980's Ferrari that only cost me £300) and I use it when I'm doing still life but that is literally all it is good for! It is a product photography camera. Maybe you could do studio portraits with it but it would be overkill. If you have no interest (or space) to do studio work and you want to carry a camera down two flights of stairs to a garden then you would be better off with a modern (and more flimsy/less precise) camera like an Intrepid or Steno - even with their downsides. A cheap, old monorail would be a "better" camera in many senses but a complete joy killer for many, many people.
Bottom line is the professional cameras of old don't do what most people want them to do today.
(My compromise is a Wista 45D that is a real workhorse but when you did a video on it you were pretty disparaging! I also have an Intrepid for walking up hills but the Wista gets most use).
Hi Nico, thank you for the answer. Now you made things clear to me. I already bought Sinar F1 thanks to your advice and yes it is a beast of a camera. Thank you.
Absolutely GOLD information in this episode. Vital to steering new chums through the labyrinth of potential choices. Large format work is many things to many practitioners. One thing it has never beeenis the easy option. Hopefully image quality through image real estate and image precision through optical manipulation are still paramount for some. Your advice has enforced that portability and simplicity (and 'fashion') are simply aspects, not the 'be alls to end-alls' that cloud decision making.
This was terrific, Nico, well done. You make an important distinction that I hadn't thought of before.
Thanks Nico, I find these ramblings (as you called them) super interesting. There are a few channels shooting LF, but I find your thoughts and opinions much more interesting than shooting, as it helps get some perspective and see the bigger picture.
Clean and clear message.
Thanks
Great explanation Nico. As always concise and to thé point. Thank you.
Absolutely agree. At the end of the day, LF is a game of patience. I saved and waited for over years until finally bought the 8x10 I wanted. It didn´t come cheap but it came in good shape after +60 years. Linhofs are built as a Tanks, so they say
Well explained, Nicos. Thanks!
Very much so, Sir, a very wise and competent approach, you may save a lot of money to a lot of people, otherwise encourage some other to go on. There are some of us who now, at a certain age, can only afford what they dreamt about 40 years ago. In my case, I recently bought a Linhof Technika that I intend to use two years from now, when I get retired. I must say that your channel)s) influence me a lot and contributed to my way back to analog, although I do digital as well. Keep coming the rambling and the doing both. - Oh, and my apologies to your shirt I called "chromatic aberration test pattern" the other day, my kind of humour ;-)
Great video with excellent advice.
yes I agree with some of it, they were made for pro's, and needed the knowledge as you have to process the image, and no Live view etc. like cameras of today; but they were also METAL cameras, and with gears/etc. wear occurs, so a C.L.A. on these is quite a job on some makes, with springs, detents for movements, and these are tricky to service, let alone trying to find a person to re-do bellows/film holders, if they leak! ( even to try and fix cameras who's makers are long gone broke, or the model concerned has been on the "out of production" list for some time). The 'NEW' cameras are wooden, composite plastic or carbon-fibre, and nearly all metal work is sheet metal bent to form, decreasing weight, so things move in temperature changes, as well as being softer metal, so any "gorilla grip" on knobs normally breaks or strips the threads/fasteners, so they don't last as long, or have as many 'overhead' costs to make as the older cameras did, so hence cost less in the retail sector than the others did.
Yep, it will be a cold day in hell when the Sinar Norma system is bested by a contemporary camera. That thing is just sheer class.
Really enjoyed this video. Maybe because I own sinar 😅👍
I wanted to build a view camera years ago. Just the raw materials to build the camera body was expensive enough that I put off that project for decades. I would have made something interesting and quality but I don't charge myself for labor...
Now I just found and bought a Sinar F for about $65 at a thrift store and about a year ago I bought a Gitzo carbon fiber tripod with a large Arca Swiss ball head on it for $14. I just had to buy a Sinar X rail extension to give myself a little more room on the rail but that was only about $30. If I'm lucky and everything is ready to go, I just need to add film, a lot of knowledge and a light meter probably. After that there is a dark room and print making but I hope I can borrow a dark room...
Any way, I'm in pretty good. Is 4x5 film really $12 each? I might expect Polaroid film to cost that much but not plain film.
I'm not an expert and haven't shot film for probably 20 years so I'm sure I'll ruin plenty of film before I start to figure it out.
I think I would like to use it mostly for architectural/landscape photography with a few portraits when I meet interesting people. I've heard a 210mm lens on a 4x5 is roughly equivalent FOV to an 85mm portrait lens on a 35mm, I'm guessing the 150mm lens I also have is about a 60mm equivalent? I kind of like the distortion of a wide angle lens, to me it feels like the subject is up close and personal, are there any good lenses in the 70mm (~28mm equivalent) range?
You seem to be big on deep depth of field which sounds like you stop down your lens and run long exposures. I think I would get a lot of motion blur. That might give my pictures a dynamic feel but I like the dreamy soft background focus of a fast lens run wide open too. Are any large format camera lenses fast?
I've just never had to ponder these questions...
If I can develop some sort of basic proficiency before I'm much over $500 in, I'll be pretty happy. If I can't, I'll have a nice Sinar F to sell. At $12 a shot, I think I'll have about 20 chances to start doing things right.
Interesting thoughts. However the user market is generally a small portion of the buyers of older to vintage L F cameras. Prices are more likely to be driven by the collectors. I am a 25 year medium and large format camera collector and amateur user. I have noticed that the prices of 4x5s have been increasing globally of calumets and cambos more so in europe and north america due to the increase of the user market, but not so much in asia where I live and have my collection. 35mm market is hot here so its only a matter of time until large formats camera prices increase here also.
You can buy on Ebay a Horseman L45 viewcamera for 300 to 400 Euro . So I do not see the point to buy a "cheap" new 4x5 camera instead ....
I've got a Speed Graphic and two Rolleicords. That's as much camera as I need. I can still admire a Seneca in 8.5 x 6.5.
Parts are becoming the issue for many of the older large format cameras. Cameras such as Tachihara, it’s almost impossible to find the gears that many times break in these cameras.
Well not the camera matters as much what type lens you are using!
To a certain extent it does, I have found all large format lenses to be pretty great. But one camera with bad tolerances and your shot is ruined. Some older field cameras wiggle a lot.
@@NicosPhotographyShow well that will be correct but I am talking on cameras that are in good working condition ! Like Sinar or Linhof or Cambo cameras with great quality in that case what matters is the type of lens you are using!
Can someone please list the cameras names?
I have a B&H catalog from the mid 1990s. The Sinar P2 camera was usd 6545. It is way cheaper today. Linhof Master Technika 4x5 was usd 4995. Also much less today.
Hasselblad 503cw was usd 1797 body and A16 back. And the RB67Pro SD body and back was usd 1449, Mamiya 7ii was usd 1849. These have somewhat retained their value. But cameras which are currently not used by hypebeasts are lower. For eg Pentax 645n was usd 2142…cheaper today. So was Bronica etrsi was usd 975. Social media influencers are pushing prices of some film gear they like up, while others remain more or less reflective of a 30 year old gear does.