Wide Angle Lens Considerations - Large Format Friday
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Going wide angle on large format film can be a lot of fun and create an interesting perspective to your work. Today I'm taking you through some of the big considerations for working with wide angle lenses on 4x5, 8x10, and larger!
Large Format focal length equivalency chart: lensn2shutter.com/35mmchart.html
Some of the best supplementary reading out there: www.alexburkephoto.com/blog/2...
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Questions? Send me an email: largeformatquestions@gmail.com
Content by Mat Marrash: www.matmarrash.com
#largeformat #filmphotography #4x5 #8x10
00:00 Intro
01:13 What Focal Length?
02:12 What F-Stop?
03:25 Image Circle
05:02 Vignetting
06:36 Wide Angle + Press Cameras
07:58 Wide Angle + Field Cameras
10:17 Recessed Lens Boards
11:17 Cable Release Extensions
12:58 Monorail + Bag Bellows
14:30 Specialty Cameras
15:08 Wide Angle Tips
16:45 Supporter Credits - Навчання та стиль
Thanks Mat. I've been shooting LF for many decades. I've learned a lot. Thanks for teaching this old dog some new tricks!
Don thank you so much! If any of the tips in this video can save folks a sheet of film or two, I'm happy.
My first experience with wide angle on 4x5 was with a 105 mm f/4.5 Agnar (Cooke type triplet) salvaged from a 6x9 cm folding camera. It's a very compact lens, and I paid $10 for the old folder it came on. Technically, it doesn't cover 4x5, but since I had it around (and the camera it came on wasn't salvageable), I mounted it on a homemade lens board anyway -- I figured that at worst, I could use it for close-ups and macro. What I found, though, was that if I stopped down to f/16 or smaller, and focused to about twelve feet (coincidentally, the hyperfocal distance for f/16 for that focal length) it would in fact, cover the entire 4x5 (with no room for movements, and better hope your mounting hole is perfectly centered in the lens board). I've got a number of images from that lens that I like a lot. The vignetting isn't bad, IMO.
More recently, I've gotten a 90 mm Angulon like the one you have on your Speed Graphic, but I haven't gotten it out to try yet. At f/6.8 (or f/7.7, I don't recall which mine is) it won't be bright on the ground glass, but I usually don't even use a dark cloth, so if I get one I think I'll be okay. I do, however, need to see if I can find or make a bag bellows for my Graphic View II. I don't have a short rail for it, but since I have both front and rear focus, I can put the excess rail at the back.
I kind of went nuts a couple of years ago and decided I needed a copy of every Super Angulon that could cover 4x5 and larger. So I have a 47mm XL on a Cambo 470 which is ridiculously wide, a 65, 75, 90, 121, (I actually don’t have the 120) 165 and 210. They all have their uses but I find the angle of view that I like for wide angle is about 84˚ (a 24mm on 35mm full frame). So it’s a 90 for 4x5, 121 for 5x7, 165 for 8x10 and 210 for 11x14.
Daaaaannnng! That's an amazing suite of lenses Lars. IMO modern Schneiders have some of the best straight-out-of-camera look of any LF lens. Also props to anyone that carries around the 210 SA or SSXL, such hefty beasts.
@@MatMarrash Yeah, I think I need to get a pack mule to lug it around for me.
Congratulations Mat for a service you're providing, it's become the main thing I look forward to every Friday. Keep up the excellent work and for many more decades to come.
I would like to tell you that I appreciate your energy, time, and knowledge you have been sharing with us here. It takes a lot to do what you do, and still keep up with your positive view of life. You have done welll Mat, and I am glad that you have done this. I was a customer at Midwestphoto a while back, talking few times with Jim for my early cameras and its lense. Not sure you are related to that store. I am just saying anyway. Keep up your great work Mat. You are one important key person for LF community on and off UA-cam. I can see that you are a cool dude type to hang out and get out to shoot with, and for sure many of us would feel the same as I do. Cheers!
Thanks for the comment and kind words! Jim was my co-worker at Midwest Photo for over 9 years! He has been a wealth of knowledge during my time in LF and a great role model for how to be in the photographic community. Cheers!
Congratulations on two years! You always have such great content!! I love wide angle.
Thank you so much Amanda! :D I say this every time we talk, but we need to get back to shooting infrared in graveyards sometime soon!
The Nikkor-W 135/5.6 has been my go-to lens for about 8 years now, but I recently acquired the Grandagon-N 65/5.6, and I am really looking forward to using it this year. At the same time I picked up a pair of Horseman 6x12 backs.
Thank You Mat, I have no real intention of ever actually shooting large format, but the details and clear explanations of the concepts that you provide always make me think about my approach to 35 mm in a different way.
Stephen I appreciate the dedication to watching these LF videos and not shooting it! At the very least, the severe limitations of LF really shows how far we've come with photographic tools.
Very well done tutorial! My first LF camera was a 5x7 B&J fixed focus box camera with Wollensak EX.W.A. 4 5/16 inch (109mm) f12.5 lens. Equivalent of 24mm in 135. I love this perspective on the world.
I had a lens mounted on a recessed lens board. To make it easier to manipulate the lens I had a small cable release I kept mounted on the lens all the time.
I love images that use a wide angle. Most of my 8x10 work has been done with my Nikon Nikkor 150mm SW lens. The best part is that it does not necessitate a center ND filter. Nice video!
Modern Nikkor and Schneider LF glass are on a different level. Crazy sharp and contrasty...though both may be twice the size of similar FL lenses.
Hi Mat,
As usual another entertaining and educational presentation!!
Thank you and TGIF!!
CC
Thanks Mat. Just started using my 65mm on my 4X5" after many years. Waiting for the snow to melt a little so I can get outside.
Matt: Thank you for featuring a GRAPHLEX camera. I have 2 4x5 cameras, an EBONY FIELD , and my CROWN GRAPGHIC … I love the portability and robustness of my CROWN GRAPHIC , and it was a gift ….from a retired Newspaper Photographer who works at a Hardware Store part time. That camera as a gift means so much to me !
So much knowledge. Thanks for doing this these two years.
OMG, you just blew my mind with tilting the bed of the speed graphic. Never knew you could do this!
Thank you Matt… enjoyed the wide angle tips!!!
Great show, Mat. Loads of info, as usual.
I use a Calumet 4x5 inch monorail with the following lenses:
135mm f/5.6 Fujinon
90mm f/5.6 Fujinon
65mm f/8 Super-Angulon
47mm f/5.6 Super-Angulon
Congratulations on the two year anniversary
Great information fine classic camera thank you.
I very much enjoy this channel. I have a tip that may help some users of recessed lens boards. Most people mount the lens straight on the board with the cable release mount pointing to the top of the board. If, however, you rotate the lens on the board counter clockwise until the cable release mount points to the corner of the lens-board, you will gain some additional room for less strain on the release and more maneuvering room for your fingers. Pythagorean theorem says it isn’t much difference in length, however my fat fingers do appreciate the extra wiggle room.
Thanks for the great tip Mark!
@@MatMarrash yes, and Mat, linhof's also deal with this by adding a linkage to the shutter cable socket, and a repositioned cable socket on the board itself, as well as extensions for the apature/shutter knobs, ever seen the Arca swiss or linhof electric shutters? ( they have a ruler and slide, looks like a thermometer!, but gives you access to the controls).
@@andyvan5692 Such good advice Mark! SO obvious but so easy to overlook! I feel lit a twit not realizing this years ago!
Thanks Mat. Love my hourglass 90 fujinon SWD. The 5.6 is helpful for low light interiors, need to get the bag bellows though.
Every time I use the bag bellows on the Sinar it makes me want a field camera that has them too.
Congratulations on two years! I recently acquired a 90mm f8 fuji so this episode was well timed . I enjoy 🔫 landscapes, old buildings and cars and the like sothe 90mm should be useful. I've noticed that I need to pay closer attention to the foreground to keep some interest in the foreground and things like tripod feetand my shadow out. I'm starting to build a 4x5 pinhole camera for fairly wide angle work, it will probably be around a 55 to 75mm focal length. I have some leftover monaghany from a remodeling project so that will be fun.
Philip thanks for the reminder on excluding your shadow as well as the tripod! Ooo, a mahogany ultrawide pinhole, that's gonna be great! My vote is for 65mm or shorter.
My favorite combination was a Deardorf 8x10 with a 165 angulon, not super angulon, lens. It just covered, with no movements, but was very light.
Those older Angulons have a very nice look with B&W film and are crazy compact!
I'm not a wide angle guy so far, early on I did 20mm street photos in NYC with my Nikon, but those days are long gone. I love plus minus 50mm equivalent lenses, however I'm loving how with LF there is almost no distortion and plan to go wide a little, 110mm is my wide lens for 4x5 so far...
one other wide angle camera, monorail you forgot to mention is the Toyo VX 125 that is purpose designed for wides, as well as the field camera from Chamonix the H1, which is an architecture camera, it doesn't fold up, like the F2, but uses the focus track of a press camera, and racks tight, and is put directly in your bag, so the lens stays on, but is normal and wide angle limited, without the 'top hat' extension board for the lens.
My first large format lens was a superwide. Since I have two superwides, a wide, and a normal, I just use bag bellows for all my lenses. I have recessed lensboards because you can't do as much movements with the superwides if you use the regular lensboards. I really like the little Gepe 8.3 cm cable release extensions when using the recessed lensboards. The screw in tip is really small, so your cable is not bent at an extreme angle. I leave them screwed in all the time, then when I need to shoot, I just attach my cable release to the extension. One of my superwides just covers 4x5 at infinity without any movements. It's very short, so there isn't much room for movements anyway even with the recessed lensboard.
The other thing about these superwides is when you have the faster ones, some of them don't work well in some cameras because of the weight and the size of the rear element.
The other thing with the superwides is they're more sensitive to focus inaccuracies. The Lomograflok focus spacer is exactly 0.75mm too thin. They miscalculated the offset to the film plane, so on all of my superwides, I have to pull the front standard back exactly 0.75mm or push the rear standard forward exactly 0.75mm to get accurate focus when using the Lomograflok. This makes that attachment so much less convenient to use than just using sheet film or rollfilm backs. I'm going to try to get a custom attachment that I can put on my camera so that I can focus and compose for the Lomograflok without using that spacer. I've lost a few shots experimenting with the Lomograflok and my superwides because of this inaccuracy, but now that I have everything calculated out, I can get sharp focus when using it. It just adds an extra step unlocking one of my standards and moving it. I have geared fine focus, so it's less of a pain, but it's still an extra step. I always get sharp focus shooting on sheet film and roll film, so I knew it wasn't my camera when I was getting pictures with my focus plane consistently shifted up close.
Thanks for the tip on the LomoGraflok, I'm going to be experimenting with one of those in the near future and will try to keep that extra spacing in mind!
I didn't know that the 10x8 Tachi could move the rear standard, the 5x4 doesn't. Neat.
The only downside to this technique is the extra wear it places on the rack and pinion, but way more sturdy for wide work.
love the sinar, but also mat, if you have to get the tripod leg out of the shot, these cameras can have a multi-purpose standard attached, use this, with standard bellows for the focus hood!, this gives weight to the rear, and even if you add extensions on the rear of the base rail, this still acts as counter-weight to stabilise the camera rig. ( just like a crane, the heavier the lens, and more extension, the further out you put the rear standard so things balance out).
Thanks for another informative and enjoyable vid. As with others, 90mm is my wide angle for my Wista 45DX. Question: when would you need a wide angle for closeups, wouldn't that have a lot of perspective distortion? Unless maybe that's the look you're going fot?
I have a bag bellows version of the Calumet Cadet 4x5 that is fun to use with a 90mm and would do down to almost zero mm if necessary but to be honest I nearly always use a more or less standard lens on LF on another camera. On 4x5 I carry a 90mm with me but always tend to shoot with the 150mm. On 8x10 it is always 300mm (occasionally 240mm). The movements on LF make things seem wider. Weston talked about anything wider than 12" on 8x10 being "aggressively" wide! They still hold a fascination though.
‘My ‘Normal wide’ on 4x5 is 90mm which is most useful. I have used 65mm on 4x5 but it does start to get fiddly for movements.
I am glad to have a centre filter for 65 just in case 👍😅
From all the LF lenses I've seen leave the camera store over the years, 90mm seems to be the fan favorite of wide angles. Works on most 4x5 cameras and is typically wide enough for a variety of subjects. Hold onto that center filter for the 65mm, they're a gem to have when working with $$$ E6.
another issue with the sinar camera, there are TWO wide angle (bag) bellows, type 1, as standard, and type 2; the type 2 is more supple, made for 65 mm lenses and down, the type 1 is the standard set, medium stiff, for the 90, 120 etc. I have heard the type 1 can do 75 but not with much movements, and the 135 is the longest, as the pentagonal shape is pulled tight, so minimising movements to.
the Toyo VX125 also has this issue, as that is capable of fitting a std, combo (bag at front, std. pleat at rear), or the ultra supple bag type, so decisions made about this affects the lens choice to.
I use a 65mm F8 Super Angulon on a Chroma Snapshot, also got a 90mm F4.5 Nikon which I use on my Intrepid, the image circle of this will allow me to use it on a 5x7 (without movements) would like to try this in the future.
For me it is either the 105mm or the 135’mm for my 4x5. 👍🏼👍🏼
Mat, just re-watched, and realised, you forgot, in the apature discussion, the addition of a fresnel lens (adds brightness specifically for focussing these wide lenses).
Some field cameras (my Wista DX) will let you get the bed out of the way by using tilt on front and back standard to effectively drop the bed…. Ive forgotten to do this on a couple of occasions and didn’t notice the bed in bottom of the frame until it was too late… 75mm is my got to wide for 4x5.
great video Mat, one other comment, even though Linhof's have glued in bellows (non-interchageable), they are designed for this, like wide, non-folding architecture cameras, they have a bellows which is unusually supple, to allow the movements when all closed up, for wide angle lens use. some examples of these cameras are: Toyo 45A, a mono-rail, but a short one (1/2" or so long!); Archa-swiss, F-line, same as above; EBONY RSW 45 a non-folding bed camera, for architecture only (can modify with top_hat ext. pannels for std focal length lenses), but these have realy supple bellows just for these extreme wides (38mm).
another point, with wides, you didn't talk about lens shades, YES, as the cone of field of view gets wider, the problem of flare/glare gets to be an issue too, so do you use hoods/neutral density filters, or polarisers to help with this?, also the fact of the "center filter" used on some designs.
Mat one other camera consideration, with the Linhof's, technika's 1,2,3 have only a
15 degree drop bed, so only 90 &75 mm lenses are possible, as for a 65mm lens and lower, a 30degree drop-bed is necisary, to allow the field of view to clear the bed extension; some esp. the 4x5" varieties, must use a bellows, akin to the macro ones in 35mm format, but added to the front standard, for focussing this lens ( there is no rack to focus the standard itself, like as equiped on the technika V series).
This is so helpful and I’m only a few min in lol
Mat, Linhof Technikas are Technical cameras not Press camera. Linhof had Press cameras usually for 6x9 format. The Technikas have triple extension bellows and the last generations work very well with extreme wide lenses. The Master Technika 3000 can work with the Super Angulon XL 38mm. My Technika V 5x7 works apparently with the 72mm (I have the 90mm). There is even a geared knob on it to focus wide lenses.
Hi Matt great & informative video as always. I have just picked up a Fujinon SW 90mm f8 for my Sinar 4x5 set up. BTW I also dropped you over a thank you e-mail for the birthday give away print that I recently received. Regards Anthony
I love my super wide lenses. I use a 120mm f8 super angulon on my 8x10 and it does cover stopped down although a centre filter would certainly help with vignetting, if I could find one for a price that doesn’t bankrupt me!
The numbers are eye-watering and I really wish there were some third-party ones that were out there for all of these great wide angle options!
Good timing. I just spent about an hour going through my lenses for 4x5 and 8x10. For my 8x10 I have a Nikkor-SW 120mm f8, Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N 300mm f5.6, and Nikkor-M 450mm f9. I'm pretty happy with that. I've got 8 lenses for the 4x5 that go from 75mm up to 250mm (75, 90, 110, (2) 150, (2) 210, and a 250). Each of the extra 150 and 210 lenses are Nikkor-W, the other two are Rodenstock Sironar-N. Some of those may work for 8x10. I'd love to have a 250mm lens that would work on the 8x10.
Do you know where I can get a good wrench for tightening the shutter to the board?
I never could find a Sinar in 8x10. Being somewhat camera poor that's probably not a bad thing lol I've got a Sinar in 4x5 and 5x7. And I have a bag bellows. :) That'll explain some of my 4x5 lenses...
That's a solid lens lineup for 8x10 and the 4x5 is kitted out to max! To match the look of glass you've already got on 8x10, I'd recommend looking at an APO Sironar-S 240mm for 8x10. The Fujinon-W 250 is my go-to, but it will be a bit softer in contrast than the rest of your modern lenses. For the spanner wrench, I like the quality of tools that Luland has been making: www.ebay.com/itm/185309681847?hash=item2b255158b7:g:eA8AAOSw3bNbTtNj They also produce some nice Sinar replacement parts and lens board accessories.
@@MatMarrash I looked through the lenses that I have for the 4x5 and 5x7 (still looking). I "found" a Fujinon-W 1:6.7 250mm lens. IC is 398mm so I should have some movements on the 8x10 with that. I guess I found the 250mm lens that I wanted in my camera bag lol. Thanks to you and some research it's slowly coming back to me. Man.. that Apo Sironar-S 240mm lens is hard to find and was hard to afford when I found it :) I don't want to jinx it but I may transfer back home soon. If that happens I'll either put a darkroom in or at least continue using my spare bathroom as a darkroom. I did platinum printing there before so I should be able to get back to that. I shot two sheets of 8x10 Delta 100 on my last trip home. I just didn't have the time to develop them.
I personally have a bausch & lomb 88mm F6.8 and I can definitely see a bit of the bed when at infinity. The shutter is a bit sticky at the lower speeds, how can I figure out which shutter will work with my lens??
Hey Andrew thanks for the comment and question. The folks over at SKGrimes have a dedicated page for identifying shutters: skgrimes.com/products/shutters/
You'll want to measure your lens by thread diameter and pitch for a matching shutter. If no current models fit, these folks can also custom machine an adapter ring.
@@MatMarrash Thank you for the info! Would love to get this set up to work right!
I've been using a Wollensak 65mm on my 2¼ x 3¼ pacemaker graphic, but I've been running into the problem that the thicker body of the speed graphic, gets in the way of being able to use any movements on distant architectural subjects. However, to my knowledge, they didn't make any recessed boards for the 2¼ x 3¼ pacemaker and it's metal boards. Curious if anyone has a solution to this problem.
My wide lens for the 4x5 is a 150mm ahahah I have a 90mm superangulon but I barely use it, I don't feel comfortable composing at wide angles.
Strangely enough, for 8x10 I feel very comfortable with my Scheider 250mm. Perhaps is because is the only lens that I got, but composing in the big boy is much easier.
Having a little more real estate for composing on the ground glass certainly helps! I'll take the 150mm on my 8x10 over 75mm at 4x5 any day.
A talk about ground-glass ...
Got you covered! ua-cam.com/video/o_aBcMpYau4/v-deo.html
To be honest I watch channels like yours out of interest.
I find it difficult enough to get out shooting digital without the hassle of film