What if we make clear politics about Flags at Eurovision? | Eurovision Podcast
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- We maybe complicate things too much and that creates unnecessary tensions. There is a very easy solution how to avoid such things and make Eurovision great again...
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Eurovision is my passion. Eurovision was my work and I am still gladly part of the professional community of this project. I started at Eurovision 2016 as Czech Head of Delegation. Such a Eurovision story! Form Eurovision in Sweden I went to antoher ESC experience. Kiiv 2017 Eurovision. This was my first and last failiur. Sometimes you need to learn trough losing even it is not plasant. We ended up 13 in the semifinal, second best score of Eurovision Czechia back then. But after this we established ESCZ national selection format. It was mostly held online. Because of this we found Mikolas Josef who went 6th at Eurovision 2018 in Portugal. Than 11th with Lake Malawi, at Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv, Israel.
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For a practical and production reason I can see the possibility of banning all flags. First, because of the blocking of the cameras and staging. Second , if the flags are attached to sticks or staffs, they pose a danger to folk's safety.
When it comes to the queer spectrum, the EBU does allow the original rainbow flag ( the 6 colorful stripes). For me as a gay man, 'it does the job' in representing the 'alphabet' the queer community has become. I truly believe the EBU knows its audience and if thie original rainbow flag was removed, the events surrounding this year's competion would seem like walk in the park when it comes to the reaction a possible ban would have from our community.
As for the UK, what about Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland? The Sami folk's flag which is used in 4 countries is another.example.
And we have the rest of the world in which this year's edition had votes from 156 countires. Just a thought.
As for the flag parade, I can understand the contestants should only have the flag from their own country on stage. Also, If Celine Dion was back, she should only represent the Swiss flag and not Canada's.
Touchy subject over a piece of fabric. Maybe the audience ltoday should look like they did in 1965. Nobody gets hurt in black tie, just those who cannot afford to attend.
Idk, I think flags are nice. I also would not be that harsh if someone wins and is from Canada to not have a flag. This is a nice about such rules, to not be a police. And I think EBU forgot the police part that much and also countries dont take it too seriously, that we came to such a video idea... and also such a madness this year but also some of the previous ones.
I love this channel.
🙏
They should ban all flags except the flags of the competing countries, I agree. Absolutely. 👍👍. The lgbt123+- flags should be banned ofc. I saw that this year there were several countries that had these flags when they were waiting for the results, Italy, Greece, Lithuania and others. Here is the thing; the competing artists do not represent themselves and they do not represent lgbt groups. They represent their countries !! That's it. Even if you send an artist who is lgbt, he or she must still try to represent his country first, because in esc countries are competing.
Artists who go to the flag parades or sit in the greenroom with lgbt flags, it just shows that they are narcissists and ego minded to max and that is not what they are there to do. They are not there to be activists. And those who did it this year should both publicly and in writing apologize to their countries. 👍👍. That's it.
I agree with this.
Yes, that would be great. Only allowing the official flags of the participating countries. Let's make it about music again.
So when Celina dion represented Switzerland would it be wrong for someone to wave a Canadian flags alongside those of the representative countries flags? Are you comfortable denying she is Canadian? Eric Saade represented Sweden but his father was Palestinian what was so terrible about him wearing something giving to him by his father and represented part of his heritage?
Only the flags of the PARTICIPATING countries. A simple rule. And why? So we don't have to engage in discussions about other flags like you are trying to do here and we can focus on the music again.
@@harold-thedutchguy this year was a shitshow because the EBU became control freaks making them more so isn’t going to make it more about music.
I agree 1000%, just the country flags of the Eurovision contestants. That makes perfect sense, there are other venues for politics! Much love from Canada 🍁
When a singer in the competition is Canadian (which we all know has already happened) what exact is wrong with a Canadian flag being waved? When a person in the audience who loves Eurovision is there, why exactly is it terrible if they wave a flag they feel represents them, whether that be Keiino or anyone waving Sami and pride flags, regional or nation flags from within a large state (like welsh flags), personally I see a sea of flags all celebrating the competition their way. The problem only arrives when an entrant is allow to participate when the situation really requires a sit out. This year that was Israeli but the EBU ignored that the EBU made it political. A clear rule of when nation will be expected to not take part would solve this. troops in land you don’t own (unless clearly invited by the host country) covers that.
Removing flags would not stop the booing of Martin Osterdahl, only better decision making by the EBU would do that! Seems to me that the problem is the EBU being unrepresentative is the problem not harmless people waving flags. Even the protesting outside was done in a peaceful manner the Swedish police have made it clear there were zero prosecutions and there was not a violent atmosphere to the protests at all, despite many bad faith actors pretending otherwise.
I am now in Romania where was just a huge booing scandal. Resolution. People felt ashamed. This is the difference. Booing an artist who came to perform, is shameful act of ignorant audience. Especially when you go there for such reason and you are decided to do it. You want peace but bring in violent behaviour which is such case booing is. The most stupid way of protest on a concert which should be about celebrating us, humans.
Protests outside are ok, peoplw have a full right to protest. Its called democracy. You mix things which are not the same. Classical foul argument.
@@JanBors well that is your opinion, which says a lot about you - but if the artist in ESC being booed is Eden, the Ukrainian born but who has Russian and Israeli citizenship who crossed into Russian occupied Ukraine to entertain the aggressors multiple times, well is she simply a singer? Or is she a person willing to be a propaganda tool for governments who invade land they don’t own and try to colonise it while removing and killing those already living there? I think you’ll find booing is a peaceful form of protest and unlike the Russian and Israeli military the people booing are not breaking international law. It amazes me that it’s ok in Janland to want to force protesters into silence but let the warmongering war traitor sing her heart out and expect us all to clap and cheer.
its interesting how you can twist the conversation to just show me you hate Eden Golan or Israel... as you same as russians use truth and twist the context. This is a very dangerous phenomenom, rly.
@@JanBors I don’t hate any individual people at all I do believe calling out wrong actions and Israel has a long history of it, the abused child has become the abuser two wrong or a hundred wrongs or a thousand wrong do not make anyone else’s wrong actions right,so hamas’s action were and are wrong, the current Israeli government are wrong in continuing it’s invasion of Gaza killing thousands of people it has absolutely no evidence were part of that terrible day in October, why is it that if you only choose to here criticism of Israel instead of criticism of the Israeli actions? And Eden Golan was a willing propaganda participant for both Russia and Israel, you make it about her I make it about her actions. You twist things not me what exactly have I related that not true? She has live the vast majority of her life in Russia, she has entertained the enemies of Ukraine multiple times, she did sing a very political song on behalf of Israel and she 100% knew what the Israeli delegation was doing to bully other artists into silence and spend most of her time with the person doing the bulk the bullying organisation. I can see what my government does and call it out when I think it’s wrong and I have belonged to political parties that when they did major things I disagree with call them out and leave, likewise no organisation no country’s government is beyond criticism, and the current Israeli one isn’t for sure. I don’t single them out but they are the primary reason why ESC24 was so awful and a bullies heaven. If you want a wider discussion of organised religion and the bigotry it fosters, the many undemocratic dictatorships in the world or the danger to the world caused by the populist and nationalistic political parties spring up around the world let me know, but again I say banning flags waving peacefully will not take politics out of the ESC only rules clearly spelt out when a country can participate and when it cannot will do. The EBU claimed it fined Ukraine for wearing political t-shirts in the green room during the grand final voting, but it lied it did not (Ukraine delegation have confirmed this), so it stopped a call for a ceasefire written in an ancient language in face paint no one would see, it delayed Portugal’s song being uploaded because of nail polish, Switzerland had to sneak in a non binary flag, this tells me it ok to be political but not all types of political, as I said politics has been in the ESC from day one, what it needs is clear rules and then they need applying evenly and fairly. Is there a single thing the Israeli government couldn’t do that would not get a free pass from you?
only one problem if that mean Israel's flag is allowed then politics is still there! the problem isn't the flags as such it's the bullying of artist to be silent by the EBU when it allowed the israeli government to buy votes by spending government money to advertise to people not watching the contest encouraging them to vote, without seeing any song. many broadcastrs complained about Israeli intimidation but were ignored. The ESC is political and always has been when to ban certain flag you have made a political stance and doing what you suggest is actually playing into the bigots hands. a better rule would be if your country has troops in land it doesn't own with the owning government permission then you can take part until that situation is no longer, if that had been the rule this year then absolutely no problem would have occured! if someone from North macedonia was in the arena in malmo it would be ludicrous to stop them waving a flag of their choice like their own country's one, absolutely no one who attends the ESC arena has ever minded gay pride or any of theother LGBTQ+ flags and only people not there seem to want to make it a problem. let kick out the bullies and stop war monghers taking part and surprise surprise if we do that the ESC will be the fun loving all friendly to everyone event it used to be.
You have it confused. Israeli flat represents the whole country, not exact government.
Bullying came from fans who dont understand a thing about it and just chosen to hate israel as a whole and some use it to full on antisemitism calls. So basically you call for ban of majority of fan media for example.
Not just israel advertise their song and voting. So still - even if, even if this is an issue. If people hate the country as you for absurd reasons, any ad wont help. That means that majority dont agree with minority and for sure reacted on this clear open bullying.
If goes to troops in war, than we need to ban many many countries on the list.
And other thing which you probably did not undetstand. Its not about banning but allowing. If its country flags of competitors, this is simply clear and no one can talk this issue used or politicised.
@@JanBors no the Israeli delegation was complained about by so many artists and delegations, these were no fans getting the wrong end of the stick, there is actual video evidence if the writer of the Israeli song goading the Netherlands delegation, the artist from many nations have all stated clearly they were being filmed against their will and the film was used to ridicule or abuse them, they direct babe Israel as being the aggressor and bully. So whatever you say it’s clear who made this year awful and it isn’t fans but the Israeli delegation.
after they bullied them, they complained... exactly the ones who wanted to boycott and also I think this is still investigated and I hope everyone who did wrong will be also having some punishment as I dont agree with any stupid behaviour and absolutely zero tolerance to bullying.
@@JanBors sounds to me you will never believe the Israeli can bully, so there little point in talking to a closed mind, but for the record the police said Joist klein did not touch the camerawoman, and that camera woman was filming when the EBU had agreed they would not, so when they talk about a duty of care to the staff they seem to have completely forgot they have a duty of care to the artists! And supporting a ceasefire is not bullying but picking on and harassing anyone who does support a ceasefire is bullying.
@@b5bobby I believe that doesnt matter the country, idiots are everyhere. So I believe that also Israelis from delegation might not behave well. Also what we saw is clear bullying from side of fans and srtists, not just towards the delegation but other israelis present there. Anyway, its clear from your stances that you hate Israel. You did no check facts, you claim them buying votes (without a fact check) and repeating disinformations. And whatever argument is used, you turn it again and again somehere else.
Jan, I always loved your content, but recent comments you have made have made me re-think very much. I really am not sure that your views are valued as much as they were a month ago. Good luck to you
sorry to hear that as I am saying same things for years, so maybe we lost each other in translation somewhere
Does a "straight" flag exist? Is this a competition between straights and non straight? As a straigt woman I feel that the contestants are harming the gay comunity. The UK song was an offence to gays.
imo this is not rly fair argument, and I tell you why, as this cross my mind also ofc as a straigh guy. We have all the rights as gay people doesnt. When everyone will poses the absolute same rights, than there is no need for flags anymore. I understand this but also on the other hand - its too much. This is now on politics as
a) people like mw are for all, just knock it off finaly
b) there are people who are against gay rights and its their way of principle, flag wont change it.
Now it most of countries the rights are equal already and it rly feels like too much sometimes, that its just simply annoying. When someone says he/she/whoever I am special cuz I am gay... thats stupid nowaday, show off its not special nowadays at all. So maybe its this general atmosphere, all those movies and series where this is unnecessary topic. Feels pushed. Honestly, I try not to care at all. Let anyone do whatever if its within law.
@@JanBors Suddenly it came to me. Artists are not wearing star of david or crosses pendants on eurovision stage, right? Is this a rule?
@@isi9061 actually I dont think anyone can condemn anyones religion in such symbolics... but honestly, I dont know.
I'd allow flags of participating countries only. The furthest I can agree is to allow all EBU countries' flags along with EU flag, but all those rainbow or non-EBU flags are unnecessary. It's a song contest of EBU countries after all.
I would not have problem with others flags unless we see, how its used nowadays and what kind of meaning and impact they had it he past. After all its a bit sad but maybe we need a bit of restart.
Yes, Jan, you're completely right!!!
The first and only actual trans person ("Non-binary" performative BS isn't being trans) so far to not only compete but also win Eurovision was Dana International. I remember that year so vividly. It was a real struggle for her back then (not like "the queers" of today pretending the Eurovision world is anything but incredibly LGBT-friendly). She won on talent and bravery alone and despite considerable backlash. She did not need any special flag or parroting empty activist slogans - her proud presence and accomplishments were the breakthrough of a generation. All the crybabies (and some crybullies) of this year owe her the ease of Eurovision being not just inclusive but actually centred around LGBT people. I agree. Just stop with all the flags beside the competing nations in the arena. We have to reclaim the competition from the agitators, hijackers and disruptors.
big agree!
Damn skippy. I remember watching that live from Tel Aviv when I was a young kid. No one thought Israel would win, but we did it. I became a lifelong Eurovision fan after that.