But such a movie has to provide enough of the content so the viewers can figure out things for themselves. A movie where you simply have no idea whats going on is pointless.
I think its hilarious he said he couldnt even read dune in prison. i felt that so hard. I ADORE LotR but I can not read it. I read the Hobbit and parts of the Silmarilion but I cant do LotR.
Going into the movie I knew the princess might have bigger role than in the books, that the prophecy was planted and the worms die when exposed to water. I was not lost at all during the movie. I don’t know why they complained so much.
Nerdrotic asked why the contemporary Hollywood machine doesn't think Star Trek, Marvel, etc. have timeless ideals. The answer is that the people creating these movies simply do not believe that there are such things as 'timeless ideals.'
60s Progressivism: Improve the system from within and win battles one compromise at a time. 20s Wokeism: Any engagement with the system is evil; compromise is defeat. Under wokeism any attempt to rectify the system is seen as "part of the problem". So naturally, current writers see Rodenberry Star Trek as a battered housewife apologizing for fascism.
Men are drawn to superheroes because they represent a lot of the male fantasy. Being a hero, fighting bad guys, romance, etc. Things that appeal to most men
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Thanks. I realized that's why I, and so many other guys, are so drawn to heroes like Spider-man. We all wish we could be him y'know? Also, working with kids, you notice a pattern of little boys wanting to be heroes and stuff like that and little girls want to be princesses. It's human nature.
Literally just came out of Dune Imax. Score was incredible in surround sound, cinematography was top notch and the feeling of epic awe of something incoming was noticable. Bit peeved it ended on a semi-cliffhanger, but I felt the same way about Spiderverse.
I mean, idk were you peeved by the end of Infinity War and Two Towers? Empire Strikes Back? I assume not. So why is ok there but not here or especially Spiderverse, which was marketed as a part 2 of 3
All the books essentially end on semi-cliffhangers. There's no true conclusion to the overall story of Dune. However if they followed the book it wouldn't have ended on much as a faux-cliff hanger. *Spoiler for how the book ends, don't read on if you are planning on reading the book* In the books Chani doesn't have a hissy fit and run away, she accepts Pauls decision to marry Irulan as he promises her Irulan only gets the title but she will never have his children. He essentially turns Irulan into a cuck. Jessica then consuls Chani by telling her that although they are concubines, history will know them as wives. It's when Chani and Jessica bond also, Chani and Paul are doing it for the greater good because it's the only way they're gonna turn Arrakis into a paradise.. And then that's it.
@@gordonfreeman-g5w Even in adaptation logic, Chani storming off only works if she had chemistry with Paul. Since she doesn't, the ending scene doesn't work and no one was willing to say it didn't during post.
@@dragonknightleader1Yeah you're right...I suspect it's typical Hollywood, higher ups sticking their finger in the product and over-watching the script. I don't understand her character at all, whether they agree with Muad Dhib or not, the Fremen all believe in a time when Arrakis will be turned into paradise... She should at least be happy for that, but not even one smile. She claims to fight for her people, yet all her people fight for Paul. So she is on her own essentially. Makes no sense at all! That ending was a real slap in the face (apart from seeing the Fremen board the ship, that was awesome)
The thing with the nukes is that, much like computers and AI, they're strictly banned within the Dune universe. They were used to bomb the former Imperial Capital planet, which is now a hellish prison world. After that, the great houses signed "The Great Convention" and agreed to never use them... but they all still hold secret stashes of nukes because they know better. The movie doesn't do a good job of explaining any of this. Also, Paul doesn’t even need nuclear weapons to destroy the Spice. All he needs is enough water, and the Fremen have secret resevoirs with plenty to use for purpose. The Atreides "House Atomics" were a very minor factor in the book, and Paul only uses them to blast a hole through the mountains to let the storm knock out the Emperor's Shields and keep his air power grounded. There was no sub-plot about Gurney leading the Fremen to find the nukes in a very obvious vault with a big Atreides emblem on the door, nor were they launched like ICBMs that could've been easily shot down.
@@roger5555ful I'm speaking specifically to that scene in the movie. A Salvo of three large rockets come sailing in, and cross over the Emperor's camp. They didn't even try . To counterpoint, where exactly did those rockets launch from? Did the Fremen just build platforms in anticipation of Shaddam's arrival? If not, how did they program them without computers? (Kamikaze? That's my theory.) I loved the movie and everything, but the condensed story does make the Harkonnens look like tactical idiots, and the Spacing Guild's role in all of this wasn't explained at all.
Dennis Villeneuve clearly understands the source material and this is my favorite adaptation of Dune, but nothing is perfect. The timeline for Dune parts 1 & 2 was compressed to make the many moving parts more understandable to the average viewer. With Spoilers, here are a few deviations from the Book... -'Dune Part 2' must take place within about a 9-month time span, due to Paul's Sister's absence from the final scene. -It took "two standard years" to effectively halt Spice production on Arrakis. -During that time, Alia Atreides was born and Paul took two Fremen wives, including Chani and Harah, widow of the late Jamis. Only his later union to Princess Irulan is recognized by the Landsraad, though history will call Chani his wife. -Chani was the daughter of the late Dr Liet Kynes. This is never stated in the film. -Far from being a religious skeptic, Chani is consecrated as a Sayyadina (priestess) and prepared to take on the Spice Agony should Jessica fail. -There is no "Spice Orgy" scene. -Paul and Chani have a baby son, who is killed when Southern Arrakis is attacked by the Emperor's Sardaukar. -Southern Arrakis is not a "blasted wasteland". The polar ice caps of Arrakis provide water to date palms and other agriculture. -It could be implied that the Harkonnens had used literal Hydrolic Despotism in regards to the northern ice cap to keep the local population in line, but this is never stated in the film. -The Harkonnen uniforms were blue and their house emblem is the Griffin. They are also known for their red hair, and Duncan Idaho once lived on Geidi Prime. Why he is not also palid and bald is not clear. -The Sardaukar used disguises to facilitate their secret operations. (Harkonnens, Spice Smugglers, etc) Their dress uniforms were black and gold. -The Harkonnen capitol city of Carthag is never mentioned in the film. Arrakeen is the old capital city of Northern Arrakis. House Atreides had reclaimed it for themselves during the change of power. -The journey South is not prevented by a wall of endless Sand Storms. -Worm Riders cannot traverse these storms. (Major plot point in Children of Dune) -The reason why the South of Arrakis remains uncharted is due to the Fremen bribing the Spacing Guild with precious Spice in order to keep their skies free of surveillance satelites. -Flooding the Spice Fields with water would start an environmental chain reaction that would ultimately result in the end of Spice Mining. Nuking the Spice Fields would not. -The Atreides House Atomics had been planted under the mountains. They are remotely detonated in order to blast a path for a Coriolis Storm to short out the Emperor's Shields with static discharge, and then allow Worm Riders to assault his grounded ships from an unexpected approach. -Baron Vladimir had intended for his Twisted Mentat Piter De Vries to take governorship of Arrakis. "Beast" Rabban is the Baron's second choice, and he is barely present in the book. -The Baron instructed Rabban to "squeeze" Arrakis and brutalize the populace without restraint. His scheme was to replace Rabban with his charismatic brother Feyd at a later date so that the abused workforce would view him as their savior. - Atreides Mentat Thufir Hawat had survived the fall of House Atreides, being captured by the Harkonnens and exposed to a slow-acting poison to ensure loyalty. -Thufir conspired to work within House Harkonnen to erode their power from within. -Thufir was involved in the events of Feyd's birthday gladiator fight, by means of a failure to drug one of the Atreides prisoners. (He was painted orange, long story.) Feyd fights him 1-on-1, not 1-on-3. The poisoned black blade/white blade plot device is not mentioned in the film. -Baron Harkonnen is a child predator in the books. -Feyd attempts to assassinate The Baron by means of installing a poisoned needle in the thigh of one of his boy slaves, but this plot fails. -The Baron spares Feyd, for he admires his ambition, but orders of him to murder all of his own pleasure slaves as punishment. -Feyd never assumes control of Arrakis, and the Baron rarely travels there in person. -The Baron used antique artillery pieces to trap retreating Atreides forces in their caves and bunkers. This tactic is instead attributed to Feyd and deployed against the Fremen. -As Rabban fails to secure Spice Production on Arrakis, he hides this information from the Baron for years, tapping into his own illicit reserves as part of the cover-up. -Emperor Shaddam is forced to intervene at the request of The Spacing Guild who require the bulk of the Spice in order to provide space travel to the Landsraad. Without it, every planet would be essentially isolated and the Imperium would collapse. -The Fremen "Fedaykin" (rhymes with 'Jedi'-kin) were trained in the "weirding way" Prana-Bindu combat techniques by Paul and Jessica, giving them an edge over the Imperial Sardaukar, but there is no mention of this in the film. There's a lot more to all this, but these plot points are almost entirely glossed over or dropped in 'Dune Part 2'. The movie also implies that the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood orchestrated the fall of House Atreides. This was never implicitly stated in the book... but it is interesting. I did however appreciate the increased presence of Feyd as a villain, and the increased focus upon the war on Harkonnen Spice Production.
@@thomriley1036oh, on that point too, it would've been nice if the harkonnens weren't painted as such tactical "idiots". They felt a lot less scarier in this movie than the first one. That could be chalked up to the Baron's son being an idiot himself though and the leadership unable to anything but obey. The one advisor that tried to advise against his actions got his face bashed in.
Its so interesting listening to their conversation of Dune 2 and hearing how they just have a conpletely different perspective on how the movie was framed and what the primary theme is. My friend and I saw this movie seperately and both came to the immediate conclusion that the main theme being addressed was fate; prophecy vs the individuals ability to make decisions. Towards that end, the movie is almost like a mythological story where the characters arent super relatable like most stories, but every character has a perspective on the main theme and by the end the audience is left with a large host of perspectives, a series of events, and no written answer to the original question (per se). It is not perfect, but from that perspective we found it absolutely brillient.
I wish the film had done more with the politics of the Great Houses and the Emperor. Explaining the Emperor's deal with the Baron and the Baron's double cross. Its all glossed over.
@@PeterM8987maybe but there's a whole sub-plot explaining that the Baron wanted Arrakkis to fall into chaos in order to lure the Emperor there and depose him and its not explained all that well, hence the Harkonins just appear incompetent rather than opportunistic.
@PeterM8987 So what? The movie can be 8 hours long and it wouldn't be a problem so long as there's not glaring plot holes that get buried and never brought up again.
@PeterM8987 it also just damages the books. They work better if you completely ignore the landsraad. If you bring it in then it's like Game of Thrones but everyone other than the Starks, Lanisters, and Crownlands just sit on their asses and have no initiative.
1:01:13 I’m one of those girls he’s talking about; Sailor Moon was my gateway comic. And she was cool because she herself was a rare girl who read comics and played video games, and got her other friends to try them out, too.
I introduced the Marvel movies to my girlfriend, and she gravitated towards Groot, Starlord and Captain America (all male characters) she's not interested in the female hero's.
Wait until Endgame. There is a part in the film designed specifically for your girlfriend. They will finally be able to visualize someone like themselves on screen together with others, like them. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 It's really Brave 💪🏼
There's several layers of hypocrisy in the way Hollywood is tackling the superhero genre over the past half a decade. Firstly the portrayal of men and women is hypocritical to their proported stance on equality, secondly it is funny how they market their movies for women, by women, yet always blame men when audiences don't turn up, and lastly it's hypocritical how they only find issue with genres primarily viewed by men. No one ever looks at rom-coms, musicals and soap operas and goes "it's a real socio-political issue that we don't have male representation in our audience; we should degrade the women in these shows on the basis of their gender and skin color and empower the men with pro-man political messaging so we can get more male viewers."
One thing about rom-coms: _they don't really make them anymore._ My sister constantly bemoans all the new stuff is drama and even the stuff labeled "comedy" or "romance" is all dour and ironic and at times just flat-out gross. Like every other movie or TV show just has a random lesbian scene that isn't relevant, isn't sensual, and isn't all that moving; it's like they're actively trying to make lesbians gross and persistently out-of-place. Which is not cool.
Also he has A Weapon of Choice because if you walk without rhythm, it won't attract the worm. Don't be shocked by my tone of voice. Check out my new weapon of choice. It's gone beyond being a man. 2000 Fat Boy Slim Video. Walken dancing.
8 місяців тому+18
With CGI, I see it as a tool. Powerful yes, the issue is not in the tools itself but the wielder, Give a powerful tool to someone who has experience and understands the uses and the pros and cons, you get a finished product to a good standard. Give it to a moron with no idea and watch him wreck stuff, harm himself or other people and whatever project it was is in ruin and does not even look like what it was suppose to be.
Regarding Dune, can we just agree that many of these small gripes would’ve been solved if it was a tv show instead of two movies? 8-10 hours of a show would’ve allowed a ton more character development than a 5 hour movie
@@LavaLot-zi5us Which, again, many would argue is more engaging because there's more time spent with the characters. Game of Thrones seasons 1 - 3 (arguably 4) is a perfect example of what a series can do that a movie, even a two-parter, cannot.
i feel like it could lose the scope of a theatrical release, but in a perfect world, yes, 100%. crazy how it was only as bad as small gripes, they did a bang up job with what little time they did have.
@@practiceyourart Maybe in your delusional world. In the actual world the small screen allows for much better character development and story. Movies tend to prioritize spectacle over substance. Case in point, Dune 2.
Excellent example of an actor playing out-of-type characters: Kevin Costner,in both 3,000 Miles To Graceland and Mr. Brooks,two very atypical roles for him.
I still think Dune as whole would have been better if they recasted Zendaya. Her acting is still no better than it was back in the Disney Channel days.
Agreed, she’s a terrible actress and rather hard on the eyes. For some reason women, or more accurately girls, believe she’s pretty. However men find her ugly for the most part.
Casting is irrelevant if the writing is already subverted. For the mutual love of each other’s lives to walk out as a political marriage to secure being “emperor of the galaxy” while chanii is the kings consort and de facto wife despite the political need for Irulan is patently absurd. Paul leads the fremen, he will lead the galaxy, he’s the owner of arrakis, what’s she going to do live under a rock and somehow “Tyrone” some kids up between movie 2 and 3? Where the central plot ENTIRELY revolves around her connection to Paul and their consequence of their heirs?
I 100% agree with Mauler. Yes, it might be visually awesome, but people don't remember movies because they were visually awesome in the long term, people remember character - "Oh, remember that scene between X and Y, still gives me chills" etc. In a way, I "expect" this movie to be visually awesome, if it wasn't it'd be a fail. I still remember Avatar in 3D and my was blown, even today. It also had a few memorable scenes and moments, unfortunately on reflection not long after watching it, the story was what let it down. I could list 100 movies in the past that didn't necessarily have awesome visuals, but the character scenes were incredible, like The Godfather, or any other Pacino movie come to think of it. Personally, I don't know why Hollywood has such a hard on for Zendaya, she's pretty forgettable in most things, maybe she'll get better. I prefer the David Lynch movie version, because Sean Young just has that creepy off-putting way about her.
Exactly. Rewatching all 6 Star Wars movies recently, my favorite scene is probably still the "Do or do not" scene. I adore ROTS and the spectacle, but Star Wars was made by its characters and writing, especially Empire. Hollywood really learned the wrong lessons there
She's just a former Disney actress so she has a huge audience that grew up with her. She's in euphoria which is huge. She does fashion so women like her.
@@36090pburke She does fashion? Hmmm, I can’t see her looking hot in anything, she pretty average looking. She’s also average at acting, maybe not even that.
2:00:28 So Taylor Sheridan is in the Texas Cowboy Hall of fame, for western horse performance. Which is exactly what his character in the show does. So maybe casting himself in that role isn’t so crazy. The more you know…
1:23:17 The Cure wrote the song Burn for The Crow, one of the biggest most iconic goth bands provided a track that absolutely stands up today for those movie. A 4k transfer? Yes please! Oh and I don’t think Ernie Hudson gets nearly enough credit for his role in this film, he’s the vehicle for the viewer who we follow along the story with.
Eh. Maybe after a 2nd or 3rd watch I might agree with y’all (as I often do), but watching this with my 13 year old son we thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this movie tonight. I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up being the best movie of the year. I read the book in high school so it has been a very long time, but suffice to say I do think some of the coldness and clinical nature of this movie is a reflection of the tone from the book. This is hard science fiction and I absolutely love that it was made that way instead of catering to the bloated, cheap, tastes of a modern popcorn audience. And of course the visuals were simply amazing, for so many other movies the blue screen is slapping you right in the face. I wasn’t even trying to look for the blue screen scenes, I didn’t care. The CG was largely invisible… so refreshing. I do not know how this movie was made. With ALL the millions of dollars burned in a barrel in Disney’s back yard it’s a travesty that none of their movies look even a tiny fraction as good as Dune2. This was intelligent movie making. I gladly sit back and enjoy it.
Old comment, but this is exactly what I was thinking. The Dune books are fairly cold and clinical. I think Denis did a good job at nailing their tone and I’m glad we didn’t spend half the movie on a romance subplot or learning unnecessary details about characters backstories. I loved it, it was one of the best movies I’ve seen in theaters.
The Redux version of Lynch's Dune is so good (It's on UA-cam in 4K and well worth a watch) - really enjoyed Dune 2 though but wanted it to be weirder! Watching it again in a couple of days
I never knew that existed. Just watched it. Man, that is SO much better. I get the impression some studio exec must have mandated that the release cut be no longer than 2hr15m and it got hacked down to that length no matter the cost in storytelling.
@@Maladjester I believe that’s exactly what happened, forced Lynch into an impossible situation and the film ended up being rushed. Cool that people went out of their way to recut it and show what Lynch’s version actually should have been 👍🏻 Glad you enjoyed it!!
In Dune 2 the Baron and Feyd Rautha have a conversation after the stadium fight about power transition which seems to be what they are saying they wanted to see portrayed about the Baron’s intentions, maybe it was heavily truncated but it was shown a bit.
I’m in the process of reading the book…and I think readers are looking for everything they got from the book but that isn’t the story they’re trying to tell. It’s more simple on purpose I think. The revenge motive for Paul is simple, but it’s one the non-book reading audience can understand. I recognize the intricacies of the book and I’m enjoying it…But to do it real justice, it would need to be a GoT type adaptation.
For me personally, I was willing to forgive a lot of the changes, and there are a lot, but the one change I can't look past is Chani's character. The reason is it because, without going into detail, it's going to effect the story and events of Dune Messiah very much. Basically Part 3 isn't going to resemble the book at all, I predict Chani is going to some rebellion leader again Paul which if you read Messiah is absolutely ridiculous. Chani is Paul's 'Sihaya' (Desert Spring), the only thing keeping him sane during all the madness. Without her he's just Paul Muad Dhib, i.e Darth Vadar.
the ending was bad, Chani in the book didn't have a hissy fit and run away and it worked out to her being in the power position not Irulan. Also this whole mad and run away would only work if there was chemistry, and Zendaya didn't have that so it fell flat.
The movie is a 6 out of 10 but if you cut out all of zendaya's parts it's an 8 out of 10. She had three lines in the movie that she just repeated over and over again. All while sounding like a valley girl. She could have said nothing the entire movie and then had the scene with the water of life in the movie would have been so much better and 30 minutes shorter that they could have used for other stuff
I think the chemistry at the end worked, but not on itself. The moment Paul takes the water is the moment Paul and Chani grow apart. Before that there was room for plenty of agreements and disagreements, but now Paul sees he (spoiler warning) _must sacrifice his humanity for the sake of humanity as a whole._ That said Chani and Paul really should have more events that bond them before that. Which is where I think the main issue with "this does not work" stems from
Im 22 and I absolutely loved the first Dune movie. It really scratched an itch for me in that it came out around the time I had pretty much given up on Star Wars which was pretty much my entire childhood. It was mature, a visually pleasing film to watch, and Ill never forget my first time watching it when it came out. A friend of mine was a HUGE Dune fan and read every book so many times the ones he hadnt replaced had the covers falling off. We made a spur of the moment decision to drive about an hour and a half away to Charlottesville opening night because they had the nearest IMAX theater and we were both blown away. Im a little over halfway through book one as well and I probably would never have gotten into it if it werent for that friend and the movie.
Warning, the books drop off pretty sharply after the first one. Some interesting ideas are explored but I found I was less interested in each successive book. _God-Emperor_ is basically Leto II sniffing his own farts for four hundred pages and I gave up on the series after forcing myself to finish that one.
@@Maladjester yeah I recently saw that there was 1) 26 books and 2) most of them were prequels so that kinda bumped it down my TBR list a bit especially cause im working my way through A Song of Ice and Fire for the first time (never saw the show) and Three Body Problem before the show drops. Ill get around to the series one day cause it sounds like it has stuff that would appeal to me but not as high priority for sure
@@proto6948 I'm going to say the opposite about _Three Body._ I found the first book a frustratingly slow burn that made me wonder what the fuss was about. The idea had been done better with _Rama, Contact,_ and others. But the series gets better as you go IMHO.
@@Maladjester sweet im about eight chapters in and the VR part was probably the weakest bit so far but conceptually it seems really fascinating and I loved the bit set in the 60s personally. Also going in pretty blind so its nice to hear it gets even better
Massively disagree about the Harkenans, even in the first film they were simple, direct; the Baron was gluttonous and lazily violent. Their victory was largely orchestrated by the Emperor (or rather the Reverend Mother) and the assistance in the Sardaukar, with it largely being due to a simple surprise attack that hinged on the betrayal of one house servant. I thought their actions in part two were very in keeping with what was established.
1:43:42 I remember Skarsgard from Atomic Blonde where he played ...well I'm not sure what he played, lots of twists in that great movie. But it certainly wasn't a creep. The last thing I saw him in was John Wick 4. He's talented. That whole family is talented. I can't think of any single family with so many actors that have achieved as much commercial success as performance acclaim. I'd definitely give the remake the benefit of the doubt if Skarsgard is attached. Doesn't mean its going to be good, but casting him isn't a problem for me. After all, I was dead wrong about how awful Henry Cavill's casting as Geralt was in netflix's The Witcher.
Dune part 2 is missing quite a bit from the book but the more I think of it the more I think it’s have to be a three parter or a series to get it all in. I think with the constraints the movie format puts on it, there is no way to get it all in without huge exposition dumps, which would have been horrible. It certainly feels like a second half of a single film.
Danny Boyle's 'Sunshine' I think is underrated. It was quite the achievement for its time and my brother and me are the only ones i know that have seen it. 🤷
@ MauLer - you need to finish the Critique of the Force Awakens - you've only done prts 1-4. We need part 5 and 6. It's been 2 YEARS since the last vid!
1:57:55 - I always considered Will Ferrel a talentless hack, capable only of playing idiot goofballs. Then I was channel surfing and came across a movie with Dustin Hoffman talking about writing with some guy in a perm. The dialogue grabbed me, and I started watching. About 10 minutes in, I suddenly realized that the guy in the perm was Ferrel and I didn't hate him! I know own that movie, and I owe Mr. Ferrel an apology.
I thought Farscape lost its way halfway through season 4 when (spoilers follow)…….. Crichton returns to Earth and then leaves again. It felt like everything after that point was an afterthought.
They did Chani a bad service and I believe this is due to Zendaya following "the message". When I was looking at ther portrayal of Chani I saw Vasquez from Aliens. They should have recasted her. Completely different character than Dune
In the books Chani is: - straight away in love with Paul - daughter of Liet-Kynes, granddaughter of Pardot, (Stilgar is her Uncle-in-Blood), people who brought the vision of green Arrakis to Fremen, showed them that it is possible - becomes a Sajjadina with Jessica, helps her with the change of water ritual - gives Paul a son - is devoted to Paul, protects him all the way - is not involved in combat in major way - understands the decision behind Paul needing to marry Irulan, even wants to back out of their relation, Paul tells her that Irulan will be just a placeholder In the movies: - some chick in Stilgars unit - fighter and brawler, sits with the "cool kids" who mock fremen religion, all around strong and independent woman who is "more than equal to men" - is in a situashionship with Paul - of course she is one of the officers who leads the final attack - storms off on Paul, as Paul says it "she will come around".. - strong independant woman who rides into a sunset on a worm.. - looks like Vasquez from Aliens all trough the movie
And wanted to add that I believe they made the changes to keep the actress around - so we get this major change from the books because she didn;t want to portray a feminine - but strong in affection and dedication - woman gives her life for her man and gives him life
If she was just supporting whatever Paul does, she would be the most boring character in the movie. We got some changes to make Paul's decisions more meaningful. She was better in the movie. I dont see any message in it
I’m not a huge Avatar fan, but I have to defend the extended length version of the original film. Because, it wasn’t vistas and nature shots that were cut in the theatrical version, it was the plot. In the extended version, the Na’vi engage in violence too, in a tit-for-tat cycle of violence. In theatrical we know that soldiers shot up Sigourney Weaver’s school, and in the extended version we know that’s because they were concealing terrorists who had just attacked the human miners. Unfortunately, because the Na’vi violence is absent in the theatrical version, it makes it a partisan exercise. It’s not two sides fighting over resources and space, it’s evil humans plundering the good and innocent Na’vi, and that’s a weaker story.
My favorite instance of an actor playing against type is James Cagney playing Bottom the weaver in Midsummer’s Night’s Dream. He’s really funny, and it’s even better when you remember that he’s typically a gangster in most of his movies!
i think, knowing where the story ends up, that chani was the way for the writers and all them to emulate what the greater audience will probably feel when the Messiah adaptation comes out. people really aren’t ready for what is about to happen, just like with the books 60 years ago lol. i only picked up the series a few years ago when i was a junior but reading through the first and second books left me very conflicted, albeit satisfying. i haven’t had the heart to start the third book.
Man Robert really brings a wealth of wisdom & quality to this one. Knowledgeable, humble and intelligent. He doesn’t indulge in the negativity for too long like some other guests that’ve been on in the past as shown by framing Captain Marvel’s weak story as a missed opportunity given the source material instead low IQ ranting about female this, marvel girl power etc
What is ya’ll smoking’? Dune 2 is great. If you guys are expecting a fully faithful adaptation to the book, complete with the character development, you’re talking at least 10 hours to do it all justice. Some things have got to give and this adaptation works. The bits that got cut or abridged made sense for this adaptation. It is spectacular. It felt like the movie was 15 minutes, I was engaged the entire time. I’m a big Herbert fan and have read Dune 5 or 6 times. I hope there will be a different adaptation in the future that might focus more on other characters or the guild, but this one is a banger and I’m glad I saw it in IMAX. Siaynoq.
What are you smoking? It doesn't matter if you think they are being unrealistic because we are talking about quality. If it's not fleshed out properly then it will have weaknesses/flaws, no matter how much you bring up expectations and reality this is will always be important even if doesn't seem so to you.
Agreed. It's like they didn't even see the same movie I did. I would have thought that nerds of any stripe could see the beauty of this masterpiece, but apparently not. How can it be that the normie audience can recognize the glory of Dune Part 2 and professional nerds cannot?
In answer to the question of dead genres that need to be revived; “WESTERNS!” We need some super cool dark spaghetti western style bounty hunter movies shot up here in the beautiful province of Southern ALBERTA, baby! We got the Canadian Rocky Mountains and we got the Alberta Badlands… and we got snow… plenty of snow. Giant rivers of mass flood tore up the Alberta prairies ten to twelve thousand years ago. There could be some truly epic westerns shot up here on our gorgeous mountains, foothills, and prairies alike, that could be entered into the zeitgeist like “Westerns” properly deserve. We just need to re-embrace our country roots and tone down the sci-fi/comic book stuff for awhile. “Enter the Western.” 😎
yeah trying to gear superhero comics towards women is like like trying to gear a shounen anime towards women, sure you might get a few here and there that love Bleach but the audience will always be predominately men, which is their target audience. they make shoujo anime geared towards women and female audience, while it can have action, its less about bulging muscles and screaming words or grunts to power up, its about love and power of friendship, and magical girls with cute pet familiars. sadly comics in the US doesnt have quite that level of separation. instead they are headstrong trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with Marvel and DC.
As someone who hasnt seen or read any Dune Media before these films. It seemed weird to add Feyd and have him be pretty much the same as Glossu. Talking to a friend he explained the major differences to the characters and I thought why add a different character but not add the differences he has.
42:11 there it is, RMB. We spent decades saying that Dune was pretty much unfilmable. Attempts were made but largely failed for many different reasons. But Villeneuve did it! It even had enough of the tone and content of the source material for even the hard-core fans to give it a 7ish/10 which isn't horrible and it still attracted normies. That is by all definitions a triumph
Love when Robert joins. It hurts me to watch him have to suppress his honest thought on the campea show. You have to fall in line or campea will kick u off his show. Can’t go against the lib agenda or he’ll throw a fit
Dune: Part Two's deviation(s) from the source material and the accelerated timeline were a bit jarring. They changed so much. Still an amazing experience, but I get the feeling a bait-and-switch might be in the offing.
I noticed one thing: you all mostly criticize what is NOT in Dune 2, but almost nothing that IS there. To be fair, that is exactly the same what happened to LotR theatrical releases. Too bad we most likely will never get Dune extended cuts =(
We watched it today and I remember walking out wondering if there was anyone I was affected by…and that’s the issue. It was all clinical. Surface level
Much of that is down to source material. _Dune_ was never a book we loved. We admire it, like it very much, appreciate it for its achievements and what it gave to fiction going forward. But _Dune's_ characters and plots aren't relatable. The characters are unfathomably wealthy, highly-educated aristocrats playing abstract political chess games over decades or centuries. The protagonist commits insane violence and sets the galaxy on fire at the same time he bemoans his inescapable fate and becomes increasingly alien in thought and action. The closest Earth equivalent would be an oil magnate's kid killing the President and kicking off World War III while high on acid. Paul and his situation are just nothing like us. There is very little in the way of empathy. But something like _Spider-Man?_ We love Peter Parker because we could all be him.
No conclusion to the character of Thufur Hawat, completely missing from part 2. Didn't like what they did will Alia just keeping her in Jessica's womb. That whole scene where Stilgar sends Paul into the desert like he's sending him on some task, vision quest etc... amounts to nothing because after 5 mins he bumps into Chani?! Rabban's death was wrong. The Baron's death was wrong. Christopher Walken in his space pyjamas at the end was comedy gold. That arena scene was crazy, why have an area that's so big that all the Baron and people even higher can see is literally dots, the scene would have played better in a training room. The scene where Paul says he'll take Irulan's hand in marriage misses out the fact that he says in name only, but Chani would be his concubine. Villeneuve is too bothered by the scope, the visuals and both part 1 and 2 treat the characters badly, if he's a true fan he's done a real dirty on the source material !
Didn't expect this one to come up but Masters of the Air suffers greatly from what I assume was a sudden budget cut, because it reaches a point where it mostly cuts out any epic battle scenes and (spoiler) .... Shoots down one of the main characters off-screen. It also builds up a side story about bailed survivors trying to get back to allied lines and just drops it until a couple episodes later they show up back in the UK without any explanation. In fact, there's an abundance of assinine decisions made the further you get into it, from blatantly unrealistic depictions of basic physics, to the show suddenly becoming a romantic drama, before currently glossing over the career of a guy who's real story could easily be the focal point of an entire series on its own.
Thanks to Quin's Ideas channel, apparently in the book Baron Harkonan, while R-wording a slaveboy, discovered a poisonous needle meant to kill him set by a teenager Feyd, THEN the Baron makes a Deal to Step Down once Feyd's Ascension is ready so stop trying to kill me for your own benefit.
There's a great deal of EVIL with a capital E that the Baron has that Hollywood just wouldn't portray. His corpulence is poetic justice from the Bene Gesserit. Movie Baron is intimidating and has gravity but not the depth that he should.
I'm sure there's a 12 hour EFAP on it, but I don't remember MauLer arguing about it on the Open Bar. The Longman does have his own host of bad takes tho.
I think Gary felt like deckard got the same treatment as Han with being a bad father and also found it boring. Personally both blade runner film are in my top 5 favorite movies
The problem with Dune Part 2 is that most of us feel it could be one of the best movies ever. But do to a few problems (Last half of movie with Chani, rushed ending etc.) it fails. Is it a damn good movie, no doubt. But it just misses greatness and its a little frustrating.
@@bfedezl2018 She's not important in the book and shouldn't be important in the movie. The decision to make her pissed off at the end doesn't make sense for the 3rd movie. Paul can see the future, all possible outcomes. She was partly responsible for his outcome, he tried to tell her he couldn't go South. But she all boss girl mad. Very poorly executed.
People complaining about how it sidetracked Deckard, but for me there should be even less of him. Much less. It was not his story with vastly different (but adjacent) moral questions. People still argue about self-awareness of K, Joi and reality of feelings between them. And that is arguably much deeper and interesting than original. Because of course nexus-6 were basically human slaves. it wasn't even question.
Seen Dune 2 in Imax TWICE now, once on Friday and today Saturday.... I didn't seem to enjoy it as much the second viewing, which is usually a red flag for me when it comes to movies. Robert is right, the film is a technical masterpiece, but its lacking some soul. I don't feel attached to it as much as part 1, which had more heart IMO.
While I feel like the new DUNE is visually superior, especially Part 1, I like the knife fight scene from Lynch's DUNE infinitely more than this one. I feel it has more punch.
58:59 This is also why manga absolutely decimates the American comic industry. Because instead of taking their one, singular, comic genre and changing it to appeal to girls instead of the boys that read it, they have manga catering to girls and manga catering to boys.
I have a few problems with Dune - the story was way too rushed, but in a minimalistic way where not a lot happened. In the book, it takes around 3 years after Paul's father dies to when Paul defeats the Harkonen and becomes emperor, in the movie it takes less than 9 months. - I understand why they did this - because a creepy, talking 2-year old would be too distracting for the climax. In the book, the main motivation for Paul to confront his destiny is when Gurney almost kills his mother. Paul realizes that he has to expand his visions in order to protect the ones he loves. In the movie, he's resistant until he isn't - there's no clear reason, there's no strong motivation - he just kind of goes. This is my problem with Dune adaptations, it's impossible to fit in all of the supporting characters and world-building that you need. Even when you hyper-focus on Paul, you have to cut out so much that is necessary to give context to what he's going through. So while the movies are pretty good, I don't think they're good adaptations.
As a parent living just outside Glasgow, I have seen these types of scams come and go where very shady operators advertise crap like this a few times a year. We just avoid these 'attractions' like the plague. It doesn't help the organiser of this particular 'event' has an awful rep.
Really dug Robert Meyer Burnett discussing the different styles of sci-fi while mentioning Dune in the same tonal palette as Tarkovsky and 2001 - an elegant way to differentiate your expectations and experience of the art. Especially in.todays cinematic landscape. Check out High Life (2018) from Claire Denis for another flavour.
@@-Zakhiel- there isn't a single movie Hollywood has put out that requires a high IQ to watch. There's no problem solving required in movies. They literally show and tell you exactly what they want. 😂😂😂
didnt really see her as girl boss at all, all of her actions perfectly fit a hormonal person of that age (isnt she supposed to be 16-21 in the dune universe?).
1:58:02 - "Actors playing against type?" None better than Leslie Nielsen! He was a serious actor for his whole career, right up until his last serious role in "The Poseidon Adventure" (Oh, my God.) When he starred in Airplane! and then Police Squad, that was quite against his "type."
Great gathering of film students and writers. I feel the same way about part one of Dune. I read the book(s) back in the olden days and the characters as well as the back story would be missing had I not read the book. Just watching the film I would be confused and wondering about things like the Bene Gesserit, navigator guild and the actual intentions of them and the families and Fremen. I was not engrossed by the characters.
The first dune movie only took off after it left theaters, seems like so many people got friends to watch it by the time the second one came out the initial audience like tripled in size😊
I typically agree with Gary and Drinker on movie opinions. But completely disagree on blade runner 2049. It's one of my favourite movies ever and WAY better than the original
Just got back from seeing Dune and I really enjoyed it. My only gripe was zendya. Will be interesting to see what they do with part 3 to conclude the story. I can't see them planning more than a trilogy and the books get a bit out there after the original.
50:35 no no... we had that Fyre Festival, iirc, which it was supposed to be a luxurious weekend of music, food and lodging, but it was just an utter nightmare...
As someone that's never read dune or seen the other versions I feel like I followed it pretty well. Wasn't lost at all. I thought the movie was incredible. Maybe I got it wrong bc I don't know the story beyond what was shown and I could put together for myself.
And the early 2000s mini series is STILL the best adaption of Dune. The ending of Dune 2 just made me want to rewatch the series. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Not-Chani in particular made me retch a fair bit, but it was more than that.
I agree, it is the best adaptation both seasons, HOWEVER, I still think that this film is a great attempt. I do think that this is BIFAR better than the lynch 1984 film. At least Dune 2021-2024 keeps the thematic focus and shows how cynical and sinister Jessica and Paul are.
@@genmaicha.lapsang I liked most of the casting in Lynch's Dune and I feel like the Lynch weirdness fit very well with the story. But the theatrical version suffered from having so many crucial scenes cut out.
On the one hand each family has their own collection of nukes with their own version of MAD. But then we're told that if a laser hits a shield you'll get an explosion close to a nuke... so why bother with nukes at all?
If there's anything that should have been changed, it's that shield rule. How about, instead of it casting reflect, the shield absorbs the energy of the laser so it gets stronger? That way, it would make sense for lasguns to be common weapons, but potentially ineffective against the random knife-fighter and that's why they learn melee combat.
What? The man with years of personal experience in the movie industry has a lot to say about said industry and the things they produce..? I am shocked, shocked I say..!
this!! couldn't agree more with the critical feedback on Dune 2 at the start. Brilliant, spectacular - but emotinally underdeveloped - and quite badly so with Paul and Chani in particular, who should have been the emotional core
@@spectre1004 it gets to a point where I don’t know where this mofos are coming from because I felt like most of their criticism were in fact well represented in the movie
Agree with Nerderotic, it's refreshing that the film didn't hold the audiences hand. They don't need to explain everything.
Erotic 😭😭
But such a movie has to provide enough of the content so the viewers can figure out things for themselves. A movie where you simply have no idea whats going on is pointless.
I don't agree with NERDROTIC. I think his accent is the best of all of their accents ❤
I think its hilarious he said he couldnt even read dune in prison. i felt that so hard. I ADORE LotR but I can not read it. I read the Hobbit and parts of the Silmarilion but I cant do LotR.
Going into the movie I knew the princess might have bigger role than in the books, that the prophecy was planted and the worms die when exposed to water. I was not lost at all during the movie. I don’t know why they complained so much.
Little Platoon is one smart guy. I've never heard such a brief and comprehensive distillation of all of the things I love about Frank Herbert's Dune.
Can you post the time stamp, please good sir?
He moaned about subtle changes to Feyd as if it were a huge deal.
Platoon won me over a few months back with his Peter Pan analysis. Brilliant stuff.
@@TheRoyalWe762 23:30
@PeterM8987 Feyd sucks. He's so obviously zero threat that it'd honestly be better to just delete him.
Nerdrotic asked why the contemporary Hollywood machine doesn't think Star Trek, Marvel, etc. have timeless ideals. The answer is that the people creating these movies simply do not believe that there are such things as 'timeless ideals.'
Neither did the creators of Star Trek but they were ablev to ignore it because they were running on the fumes of ✝️ ideas
There are no timeless ideas
60s Progressivism: Improve the system from within and win battles one compromise at a time.
20s Wokeism: Any engagement with the system is evil; compromise is defeat.
Under wokeism any attempt to rectify the system is seen as "part of the problem". So naturally, current writers see Rodenberry Star Trek as a battered housewife apologizing for fascism.
water is wet
@@samwallaceart288 progressivism and woke are naturalnatural results of liberalism
Men are drawn to superheroes because they represent a lot of the male fantasy. Being a hero, fighting bad guys, romance, etc. Things that appeal to most men
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
@@TheRoyalWe762 Oh, right. Then I'll have a baconator
@@jonslade17 Good choice.
Personally, I find the Biggie Bag a better value. Get two if you are particularly famished.
Also, your original comment is dead on.
@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Thanks. I realized that's why I, and so many other guys, are so drawn to heroes like Spider-man. We all wish we could be him y'know? Also, working with kids, you notice a pattern of little boys wanting to be heroes and stuff like that and little girls want to be princesses. It's human nature.
47:40 to skip Dune 2 spoilers (I believe, I skimmed because I'm avoiding them myself)
Thank you
Appreciate it!
Thanks so much
Why don’t you watch this video after you watch the film? (Not trying to be rude, genuinely curious)
doing gods work
Literally just came out of Dune Imax. Score was incredible in surround sound, cinematography was top notch and the feeling of epic awe of something incoming was noticable.
Bit peeved it ended on a semi-cliffhanger, but I felt the same way about Spiderverse.
I mean, idk were you peeved by the end of Infinity War and Two Towers? Empire Strikes Back? I assume not. So why is ok there but not here or especially Spiderverse, which was marketed as a part 2 of 3
hans zimmer ftw!
All the books essentially end on semi-cliffhangers. There's no true conclusion to the overall story of Dune. However if they followed the book it wouldn't have ended on much as a faux-cliff hanger.
*Spoiler for how the book ends, don't read on if you are planning on reading the book*
In the books Chani doesn't have a hissy fit and run away, she accepts Pauls decision to marry Irulan as he promises her Irulan only gets the title but she will never have his children. He essentially turns Irulan into a cuck. Jessica then consuls Chani by telling her that although they are concubines, history will know them as wives. It's when Chani and Jessica bond also, Chani and Paul are doing it for the greater good because it's the only way they're gonna turn Arrakis into a paradise.. And then that's it.
@@gordonfreeman-g5w Even in adaptation logic, Chani storming off only works if she had chemistry with Paul. Since she doesn't, the ending scene doesn't work and no one was willing to say it didn't during post.
@@dragonknightleader1Yeah you're right...I suspect it's typical Hollywood, higher ups sticking their finger in the product and over-watching the script.
I don't understand her character at all, whether they agree with Muad Dhib or not, the Fremen all believe in a time when Arrakis will be turned into paradise... She should at least be happy for that, but not even one smile. She claims to fight for her people, yet all her people fight for Paul. So she is on her own essentially. Makes no sense at all! That ending was a real slap in the face (apart from seeing the Fremen board the ship, that was awesome)
The thing with the nukes is that, much like computers and AI, they're strictly banned within the Dune universe. They were used to bomb the former Imperial Capital planet, which is now a hellish prison world. After that, the great houses signed "The Great Convention" and agreed to never use them... but they all still hold secret stashes of nukes because they know better.
The movie doesn't do a good job of explaining any of this. Also, Paul doesn’t even need nuclear weapons to destroy the Spice. All he needs is enough water, and the Fremen have secret resevoirs with plenty to use for purpose.
The Atreides "House Atomics" were a very minor factor in the book, and Paul only uses them to blast a hole through the mountains to let the storm knock out the Emperor's Shields and keep his air power grounded. There was no sub-plot about Gurney leading the Fremen to find the nukes in a very obvious vault with a big Atreides emblem on the door, nor were they launched like ICBMs that could've been easily shot down.
ICBM are absolutely not easy to shoot down and with how primitve gun laying is in the Dune movies no way in shit they gonna shot even one down
@@roger5555ful I'm speaking specifically to that scene in the movie. A Salvo of three large rockets come sailing in, and cross over the Emperor's camp. They didn't even try .
To counterpoint, where exactly did those rockets launch from? Did the Fremen just build platforms in anticipation of Shaddam's arrival? If not, how did they program them without computers? (Kamikaze? That's my theory.) I loved the movie and everything, but the condensed story does make the Harkonnens look like tactical idiots, and the Spacing Guild's role in all of this wasn't explained at all.
Dennis Villeneuve clearly understands the source material and this is my favorite adaptation of Dune, but nothing is perfect.
The timeline for Dune parts 1 & 2 was compressed to make the many moving parts more understandable to the average viewer. With Spoilers, here are a few deviations from the Book...
-'Dune Part 2' must take place within about a 9-month time span, due to Paul's Sister's absence from the final scene.
-It took "two standard years" to effectively halt Spice production on Arrakis.
-During that time, Alia Atreides was born and Paul took two Fremen wives, including Chani and Harah, widow of the late Jamis. Only his later union to Princess Irulan is recognized by the Landsraad, though history will call Chani his wife.
-Chani was the daughter of the late Dr Liet Kynes. This is never stated in the film.
-Far from being a religious skeptic, Chani is consecrated as a Sayyadina (priestess) and prepared to take on the Spice Agony should Jessica fail.
-There is no "Spice Orgy" scene.
-Paul and Chani have a baby son, who is killed when Southern Arrakis is attacked by the Emperor's Sardaukar.
-Southern Arrakis is not a "blasted wasteland". The polar ice caps of Arrakis provide water to date palms and other agriculture.
-It could be implied that the Harkonnens had used literal Hydrolic Despotism in regards to the northern ice cap to keep the local population in line, but this is never stated in the film.
-The Harkonnen uniforms were blue and their house emblem is the Griffin. They are also known for their red hair, and Duncan Idaho once lived on Geidi Prime. Why he is not also palid and bald is not clear.
-The Sardaukar used disguises to facilitate their secret operations. (Harkonnens, Spice Smugglers, etc) Their dress uniforms were black and gold.
-The Harkonnen capitol city of Carthag is never mentioned in the film. Arrakeen is the old capital city of Northern Arrakis. House Atreides had reclaimed it for themselves during the change of power.
-The journey South is not prevented by a wall of endless Sand Storms.
-Worm Riders cannot traverse these storms. (Major plot point in Children of Dune)
-The reason why the South of Arrakis remains uncharted is due to the Fremen bribing the Spacing Guild with precious Spice in order to keep their skies free of surveillance satelites.
-Flooding the Spice Fields with water would start an environmental chain reaction that would ultimately result in the end of Spice Mining. Nuking the Spice Fields would not.
-The Atreides House Atomics had been planted under the mountains. They are remotely detonated in order to blast a path for a Coriolis Storm to short out the Emperor's Shields with static discharge, and then allow Worm Riders to assault his grounded ships from an unexpected approach.
-Baron Vladimir had intended for his Twisted Mentat Piter De Vries to take governorship of Arrakis. "Beast" Rabban is the Baron's second choice, and he is barely present in the book.
-The Baron instructed Rabban to "squeeze" Arrakis and brutalize the populace without restraint. His scheme was to replace Rabban with his charismatic brother Feyd at a later date so that the abused workforce would view him as their savior.
- Atreides Mentat Thufir Hawat had survived the fall of House Atreides, being captured by the Harkonnens and exposed to a slow-acting poison to ensure loyalty.
-Thufir conspired to work within House Harkonnen to erode their power from within.
-Thufir was involved in the events of Feyd's birthday gladiator fight, by means of a failure to drug one of the Atreides prisoners. (He was painted orange, long story.) Feyd fights him 1-on-1, not 1-on-3. The poisoned black blade/white blade plot device is not mentioned in the film.
-Baron Harkonnen is a child predator in the books.
-Feyd attempts to assassinate The Baron by means of installing a poisoned needle in the thigh of one of his boy slaves, but this plot fails.
-The Baron spares Feyd, for he admires his ambition, but orders of him to murder all of his own pleasure slaves as punishment.
-Feyd never assumes control of Arrakis, and the Baron rarely travels there in person.
-The Baron used antique artillery pieces to trap retreating Atreides forces in their caves and bunkers. This tactic is instead attributed to Feyd and deployed against the Fremen.
-As Rabban fails to secure Spice Production on Arrakis, he hides this information from the Baron for years, tapping into his own illicit reserves as part of the cover-up.
-Emperor Shaddam is forced to intervene at the request of The Spacing Guild who require the bulk of the Spice in order to provide space travel to the Landsraad. Without it, every planet would be essentially isolated and the Imperium would collapse.
-The Fremen "Fedaykin" (rhymes with 'Jedi'-kin) were trained in the "weirding way" Prana-Bindu combat techniques by Paul and Jessica, giving them an edge over the Imperial Sardaukar, but there is no mention of this in the film.
There's a lot more to all this, but these plot points are almost entirely glossed over or dropped in 'Dune Part 2'.
The movie also implies that the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood orchestrated the fall of House Atreides. This was never implicitly stated in the book... but it is interesting.
I did however appreciate the increased presence of Feyd as a villain, and the increased focus upon the war on Harkonnen Spice Production.
So that's why it felt a bit rushed. Still looked awesome seeing the missiles launch in that surprise attack.
How would water destroy the spice though?
@@thomriley1036oh, on that point too, it would've been nice if the harkonnens weren't painted as such tactical "idiots". They felt a lot less scarier in this movie than the first one. That could be chalked up to the Baron's son being an idiot himself though and the leadership unable to anything but obey. The one advisor that tried to advise against his actions got his face bashed in.
Its so interesting listening to their conversation of Dune 2 and hearing how they just have a conpletely different perspective on how the movie was framed and what the primary theme is.
My friend and I saw this movie seperately and both came to the immediate conclusion that the main theme being addressed was fate; prophecy vs the individuals ability to make decisions. Towards that end, the movie is almost like a mythological story where the characters arent super relatable like most stories, but every character has a perspective on the main theme and by the end the audience is left with a large host of perspectives, a series of events, and no written answer to the original question (per se). It is not perfect, but from that perspective we found it absolutely brillient.
I wish the film had done more with the politics of the Great Houses and the Emperor. Explaining the Emperor's deal with the Baron and the Baron's double cross. Its all glossed over.
That would have added at least another 30 minutes to the film.
@@PeterM8987maybe but there's a whole sub-plot explaining that the Baron wanted Arrakkis to fall into chaos in order to lure the Emperor there and depose him and its not explained all that well, hence the Harkonins just appear incompetent rather than opportunistic.
@PeterM8987 So what? The movie can be 8 hours long and it wouldn't be a problem so long as there's not glaring plot holes that get buried and never brought up again.
@PeterM8987 it also just damages the books. They work better if you completely ignore the landsraad. If you bring it in then it's like Game of Thrones but everyone other than the Starks, Lanisters, and Crownlands just sit on their asses and have no initiative.
@@PeterM8987 good
1:01:13 I’m one of those girls he’s talking about; Sailor Moon was my gateway comic. And she was cool because she herself was a rare girl who read comics and played video games, and got her other friends to try them out, too.
This is probably the best line-up I've seen so far
Replace Nerdrotic with Movie Cynic or Baggage Claim and you'd be correct
Agree, the dream team.
@@EddyA1337agreed baggage claim would be the better option.
@@EddyA1337Completely agree
I introduced the Marvel movies to my girlfriend, and she gravitated towards Groot, Starlord and Captain America (all male characters) she's not interested in the female hero's.
Wait until Endgame. There is a part in the film designed specifically for your girlfriend. They will finally be able to visualize someone like themselves on screen together with others, like them.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
It's really Brave 💪🏼
I am introducing my girlfriend to Marvel movies in order so I can show her what Marvel is today
My wife and daughter introduced me to the Barbie Movie. They wouldn't shut up about Ryan Gosling.
There's several layers of hypocrisy in the way Hollywood is tackling the superhero genre over the past half a decade. Firstly the portrayal of men and women is hypocritical to their proported stance on equality, secondly it is funny how they market their movies for women, by women, yet always blame men when audiences don't turn up, and lastly it's hypocritical how they only find issue with genres primarily viewed by men. No one ever looks at rom-coms, musicals and soap operas and goes "it's a real socio-political issue that we don't have male representation in our audience; we should degrade the women in these shows on the basis of their gender and skin color and empower the men with pro-man political messaging so we can get more male viewers."
One thing about rom-coms: _they don't really make them anymore._ My sister constantly bemoans all the new stuff is drama and even the stuff labeled "comedy" or "romance" is all dour and ironic and at times just flat-out gross. Like every other movie or TV show just has a random lesbian scene that isn't relevant, isn't sensual, and isn't all that moving; it's like they're actively trying to make lesbians gross and persistently out-of-place. Which is not cool.
Reason the Emperor in Dune lost is that he had a fever… and the only cure is more cow bell
Had staph
Also he has A Weapon of Choice because if you walk without rhythm, it won't attract the worm. Don't be shocked by my tone of voice. Check out my new weapon of choice. It's gone beyond being a man. 2000 Fat Boy Slim Video. Walken dancing.
With CGI, I see it as a tool.
Powerful yes, the issue is not in the tools itself but the wielder,
Give a powerful tool to someone who has experience and understands the uses and the pros and cons, you get a finished product to a good standard.
Give it to a moron with no idea and watch him wreck stuff, harm himself or other people and whatever project it was is in ruin and does not even look like what it was suppose to be.
Tremors is the most underrated movie.
Instant classic
"Pardon my French... SHIT!"
One could say it was… groundbreaking.
👍🏽
Good ol' Stumpy
Regarding Dune, can we just agree that many of these small gripes would’ve been solved if it was a tv show instead of two movies? 8-10 hours of a show would’ve allowed a ton more character development than a 5 hour movie
There is already a dune series
@@LavaLot-zi5us Which, again, many would argue is more engaging because there's more time spent with the characters. Game of Thrones seasons 1 - 3 (arguably 4) is a perfect example of what a series can do that a movie, even a two-parter, cannot.
i feel like it could lose the scope of a theatrical release, but in a perfect world, yes, 100%. crazy how it was only as bad as small gripes, they did a bang up job with what little time they did have.
@@ronb2008Many lmao.. You mean a few contrarians, sure. In the real world, the movies are significantly better in every facet of storytelling.
@@practiceyourart Maybe in your delusional world. In the actual world the small screen allows for much better character development and story. Movies tend to prioritize spectacle over substance. Case in point, Dune 2.
Excellent example of an actor playing out-of-type characters:
Kevin Costner,in both 3,000 Miles To Graceland and Mr. Brooks,two very atypical roles for him.
I disagree with the hate on BR 2049. The OG Bladerunner is not perfect despite what people say. BR 2049 is a CLOSE second to the OG.
Skarsdgard looks exactly like Eric Draven in some of the graphic novels, I'm guessing that's what they are going for.
I still think Dune as whole would have been better if they recasted Zendaya. Her acting is still no better than it was back in the Disney Channel days.
Agreed, she’s a terrible actress and rather hard on the eyes. For some reason women, or more accurately girls, believe she’s pretty. However men find her ugly for the most part.
She’s not great but recasting wouldn’t have worked. Her range does appear to be basically “frown”.
@@juandurugasThey sneak her into movies like some Nepotism kid, the day they make a movie with her in the lead role it's over
Casting is irrelevant if the writing is already subverted.
For the mutual love of each other’s lives to walk out as a political marriage to secure being “emperor of the galaxy” while chanii is the kings consort and de facto wife despite the political need for Irulan is patently absurd.
Paul leads the fremen, he will lead the galaxy, he’s the owner of arrakis, what’s she going to do live under a rock and somehow “Tyrone” some kids up between movie 2 and 3? Where the central plot ENTIRELY revolves around her connection to Paul and their consequence of their heirs?
I 100% agree with Mauler. Yes, it might be visually awesome, but people don't remember movies because they were visually awesome in the long term, people remember character - "Oh, remember that scene between X and Y, still gives me chills" etc. In a way, I "expect" this movie to be visually awesome, if it wasn't it'd be a fail. I still remember Avatar in 3D and my was blown, even today. It also had a few memorable scenes and moments, unfortunately on reflection not long after watching it, the story was what let it down. I could list 100 movies in the past that didn't necessarily have awesome visuals, but the character scenes were incredible, like The Godfather, or any other Pacino movie come to think of it.
Personally, I don't know why Hollywood has such a hard on for Zendaya, she's pretty forgettable in most things, maybe she'll get better. I prefer the David Lynch movie version, because Sean Young just has that creepy off-putting way about her.
Exactly. Rewatching all 6 Star Wars movies recently, my favorite scene is probably still the "Do or do not" scene. I adore ROTS and the spectacle, but Star Wars was made by its characters and writing, especially Empire. Hollywood really learned the wrong lessons there
For all its flaws, the mini series will always be my favourite portrayal of Chani. It's probably just the nostalgia talking though 😅
It sounds as though it's pretty parallel to Avatar, where they're not bad movies, but they're mostly spectacle
She's just a former Disney actress so she has a huge audience that grew up with her. She's in euphoria which is huge. She does fashion so women like her.
@@36090pburke She does fashion? Hmmm, I can’t see her looking hot in anything, she pretty average looking. She’s also average at acting, maybe not even that.
2:00:28 So Taylor Sheridan is in the Texas Cowboy Hall of fame, for western horse performance. Which is exactly what his character in the show does.
So maybe casting himself in that role isn’t so crazy. The more you know…
1:23:17 The Cure wrote the song Burn for The Crow, one of the biggest most iconic goth bands provided a track that absolutely stands up today for those movie. A 4k transfer? Yes please!
Oh and I don’t think Ernie Hudson gets nearly enough credit for his role in this film, he’s the vehicle for the viewer who we follow along the story with.
That Willy Wonka Experience is a perfect family day in glasco
It's Glasgow.
@modusoperandi6223 is it?
@modusoperandi6223 my bad, speech to text.
It's good for kids. Teach them life sucks early.
@LanceKirby-es1xi if they live in Glasgow they already know. 😂
Eh. Maybe after a 2nd or 3rd watch I might agree with y’all (as I often do), but watching this with my 13 year old son we thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this movie tonight. I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up being the best movie of the year. I read the book in high school so it has been a very long time, but suffice to say I do think some of the coldness and clinical nature of this movie is a reflection of the tone from the book. This is hard science fiction and I absolutely love that it was made that way instead of catering to the bloated, cheap, tastes of a modern popcorn audience. And of course the visuals were simply amazing, for so many other movies the blue screen is slapping you right in the face. I wasn’t even trying to look for the blue screen scenes, I didn’t care. The CG was largely invisible… so refreshing. I do not know how this movie was made. With ALL the millions of dollars burned in a barrel in Disney’s back yard it’s a travesty that none of their movies look even a tiny fraction as good as Dune2. This was intelligent movie making. I gladly sit back and enjoy it.
Old comment, but this is exactly what I was thinking. The Dune books are fairly cold and clinical. I think Denis did a good job at nailing their tone and I’m glad we didn’t spend half the movie on a romance subplot or learning unnecessary details about characters backstories. I loved it, it was one of the best movies I’ve seen in theaters.
I cannot overstate how much I DESPISE Zendaya and her perma scowl. She makes Larson look personable and entertaining by comparison.
Despise, huh. That’s a strong word.
@@BootySweat4491And quite powerful on a scrabble board.
Her and Holland are like being forced by Hollywood as the new couple and "movie stars"
In promotions & interviews she's always laughing & giggling then in movies she has permanent period pain face. She's cat fishing her personality.
There's only one reason she gets work, and it's not due to her "acting".
As someone who hasn’t read the books, I think they could have split it into another movie. The last half felt a bit rushed.
Agreed
The Redux version of Lynch's Dune is so good (It's on UA-cam in 4K and well worth a watch) - really enjoyed Dune 2 though but wanted it to be weirder! Watching it again in a couple of days
Link?
@@overrclocked ua-cam.com/video/faHQA_0d9Mo/v-deo.html
spice diver edit on youtube@@overrclocked
I never knew that existed. Just watched it. Man, that is SO much better. I get the impression some studio exec must have mandated that the release cut be no longer than 2hr15m and it got hacked down to that length no matter the cost in storytelling.
@@Maladjester I believe that’s exactly what happened, forced Lynch into an impossible situation and the film ended up being rushed. Cool that people went out of their way to recut it and show what Lynch’s version actually should have been 👍🏻 Glad you enjoyed it!!
In Dune 2 the Baron and Feyd Rautha have a conversation after the stadium fight about power transition which seems to be what they are saying they wanted to see portrayed about the Baron’s intentions, maybe it was heavily truncated but it was shown a bit.
Man, I'm glad DS9 is coming up in Drinker and Maulers Star Trek journey. I hope Mauler watches DS9.
GOAT
DS9 is STILL my favorite S.T. series, and one of my favorite re-watched shows
I’m in the process of reading the book…and I think readers are looking for everything they got from the book but that isn’t the story they’re trying to tell. It’s more simple on purpose I think. The revenge motive for Paul is simple, but it’s one the non-book reading audience can understand.
I recognize the intricacies of the book and I’m enjoying it…But to do it real justice, it would need to be a GoT type adaptation.
For me personally, I was willing to forgive a lot of the changes, and there are a lot, but the one change I can't look past is Chani's character. The reason is it because, without going into detail, it's going to effect the story and events of Dune Messiah very much.
Basically Part 3 isn't going to resemble the book at all, I predict Chani is going to some rebellion leader again Paul which if you read Messiah is absolutely ridiculous. Chani is Paul's 'Sihaya' (Desert Spring), the only thing keeping him sane during all the madness. Without her he's just Paul Muad Dhib, i.e Darth Vadar.
The book is a mess.
@@lokenontherange lmao sure
the ending was bad, Chani in the book didn't have a hissy fit and run away and it worked out to her being in the power position not Irulan. Also this whole mad and run away would only work if there was chemistry, and Zendaya didn't have that so it fell flat.
The movie is a 6 out of 10 but if you cut out all of zendaya's parts it's an 8 out of 10. She had three lines in the movie that she just repeated over and over again. All while sounding like a valley girl. She could have said nothing the entire movie and then had the scene with the water of life in the movie would have been so much better and 30 minutes shorter that they could have used for other stuff
@@TheRoyalWe762 ya, bad acting (as Zendaya Coleman usually does) and she brought down the movie hard.
I think the chemistry at the end worked, but not on itself.
The moment Paul takes the water is the moment Paul and Chani grow apart.
Before that there was room for plenty of agreements and disagreements, but now Paul sees he (spoiler warning) _must sacrifice his humanity for the sake of humanity as a whole._
That said
Chani and Paul really should have more events that bond them before that.
Which is where I think the main issue with "this does not work" stems from
Im 22 and I absolutely loved the first Dune movie. It really scratched an itch for me in that it came out around the time I had pretty much given up on Star Wars which was pretty much my entire childhood. It was mature, a visually pleasing film to watch, and Ill never forget my first time watching it when it came out. A friend of mine was a HUGE Dune fan and read every book so many times the ones he hadnt replaced had the covers falling off. We made a spur of the moment decision to drive about an hour and a half away to Charlottesville opening night because they had the nearest IMAX theater and we were both blown away. Im a little over halfway through book one as well and I probably would never have gotten into it if it werent for that friend and the movie.
Warning, the books drop off pretty sharply after the first one. Some interesting ideas are explored but I found I was less interested in each successive book. _God-Emperor_ is basically Leto II sniffing his own farts for four hundred pages and I gave up on the series after forcing myself to finish that one.
@@Maladjester yeah I recently saw that there was 1) 26 books and 2) most of them were prequels so that kinda bumped it down my TBR list a bit especially cause im working my way through A Song of Ice and Fire for the first time (never saw the show) and Three Body Problem before the show drops. Ill get around to the series one day cause it sounds like it has stuff that would appeal to me but not as high priority for sure
@@proto6948 I'm going to say the opposite about _Three Body._ I found the first book a frustratingly slow burn that made me wonder what the fuss was about. The idea had been done better with _Rama, Contact,_ and others. But the series gets better as you go IMHO.
@@Maladjester sweet im about eight chapters in and the VR part was probably the weakest bit so far but conceptually it seems really fascinating and I loved the bit set in the 60s personally. Also going in pretty blind so its nice to hear it gets even better
How about for open bar 100 you guys all meet up and do a live special…. 👀👀
This is an ELITE line-up
The A Team
Robert is so legit man, hes a well of stories and knowledge of cinema
@@Denariusjay yeah its always nice of him to talk for 2/3rds of a pod name dropping everyone and everything he knows, guys a real entertainer...owait
Massively disagree about the Harkenans, even in the first film they were simple, direct; the Baron was gluttonous and lazily violent. Their victory was largely orchestrated by the Emperor (or rather the Reverend Mother) and the assistance in the Sardaukar, with it largely being due to a simple surprise attack that hinged on the betrayal of one house servant. I thought their actions in part two were very in keeping with what was established.
1:43:42 I remember Skarsgard from Atomic Blonde where he played ...well I'm not sure what he played, lots of twists in that great movie. But it certainly wasn't a creep. The last thing I saw him in was John Wick 4. He's talented. That whole family is talented. I can't think of any single family with so many actors that have achieved as much commercial success as performance acclaim.
I'd definitely give the remake the benefit of the doubt if Skarsgard is attached. Doesn't mean its going to be good, but casting him isn't a problem for me. After all, I was dead wrong about how awful Henry Cavill's casting as Geralt was in netflix's The Witcher.
Dune part 2 is missing quite a bit from the book but the more I think of it the more I think it’s have to be a three parter or a series to get it all in. I think with the constraints the movie format puts on it, there is no way to get it all in without huge exposition dumps, which would have been horrible.
It certainly feels like a second half of a single film.
It felt like the middle film of a trilogy which I guess it will be.
43:00 Most Villeneuve films are art films. BR2049 was an art film, not a sci fi film
Danny Boyle's 'Sunshine' I think is underrated. It was quite the achievement for its time and my brother and me are the only ones i know that have seen it. 🤷
@ MauLer - you need to finish the Critique of the Force Awakens - you've only done prts 1-4. We need part 5 and 6. It's been 2 YEARS since the last vid!
1:57:55 - I always considered Will Ferrel a talentless hack, capable only of playing idiot goofballs. Then I was channel surfing and came across a movie with Dustin Hoffman talking about writing with some guy in a perm. The dialogue grabbed me, and I started watching. About 10 minutes in, I suddenly realized that the guy in the perm was Ferrel and I didn't hate him!
I know own that movie, and I owe Mr. Ferrel an apology.
I thought Farscape lost its way halfway through season 4 when (spoilers follow)……..
Crichton returns to Earth and then leaves again. It felt like everything after that point was an afterthought.
They did Chani a bad service and I believe this is due to Zendaya following "the message".
When I was looking at ther portrayal of Chani I saw Vasquez from Aliens.
They should have recasted her.
Completely different character than Dune
Yes I think you’re just projecting - you clearly just following ‘the message’ that people are supposed to hate zendaya. Her performance was perfect.
@@eh4907 The point is her character was MASSIVELY changed from the books. And definitely not for the better.
In the books Chani is:
- straight away in love with Paul
- daughter of Liet-Kynes, granddaughter of Pardot, (Stilgar is her Uncle-in-Blood), people who brought the vision of green Arrakis to Fremen, showed them that it is possible
- becomes a Sajjadina with Jessica, helps her with the change of water ritual
- gives Paul a son
- is devoted to Paul, protects him all the way
- is not involved in combat in major way
- understands the decision behind Paul needing to marry Irulan, even wants to back out of their relation, Paul tells her that Irulan will be just a placeholder
In the movies:
- some chick in Stilgars unit
- fighter and brawler, sits with the "cool kids" who mock fremen religion, all around strong and independent woman who is "more than equal to men"
- is in a situashionship with Paul
- of course she is one of the officers who leads the final attack
- storms off on Paul, as Paul says it "she will come around"..
- strong independant woman who rides into a sunset on a worm..
- looks like Vasquez from Aliens all trough the movie
And wanted to add that I believe they made the changes to keep the actress around - so we get this major change from the books because she didn;t want to portray a feminine - but strong in affection and dedication - woman gives her life for her man and gives him life
If she was just supporting whatever Paul does, she would be the most boring character in the movie. We got some changes to make Paul's decisions more meaningful. She was better in the movie. I dont see any message in it
I’m not a huge Avatar fan, but I have to defend the extended length version of the original film. Because, it wasn’t vistas and nature shots that were cut in the theatrical version, it was the plot.
In the extended version, the Na’vi engage in violence too, in a tit-for-tat cycle of violence. In theatrical we know that soldiers shot up Sigourney Weaver’s school, and in the extended version we know that’s because they were concealing terrorists who had just attacked the human miners.
Unfortunately, because the Na’vi violence is absent in the theatrical version, it makes it a partisan exercise. It’s not two sides fighting over resources and space, it’s evil humans plundering the good and innocent Na’vi, and that’s a weaker story.
I fucking love listening to The Little Platoon
Yeah, the way he speaks is great.
My favorite instance of an actor playing against type is James Cagney playing Bottom the weaver in Midsummer’s Night’s Dream. He’s really funny, and it’s even better when you remember that he’s typically a gangster in most of his movies!
i think, knowing where the story ends up, that chani was the way for the writers and all them to emulate what the greater audience will probably feel when the Messiah adaptation comes out. people really aren’t ready for what is about to happen, just like with the books 60 years ago lol. i only picked up the series a few years ago when i was a junior but reading through the first and second books left me very conflicted, albeit satisfying. i haven’t had the heart to start the third book.
I have re read them all plus the ones his son wrote after frank died. You missed out my friend.
Read Children Of Dune,it's one of the best. 👍
@@zacharymcmillan2788 after seeing part 2, i decided to give it a go 🤙. i’ve heard good things so i’m excited
@zacharymcmillan2788 Children was good but I would say read it if only to get to God Emperor, it's the best of the series
Man Robert really brings a wealth of wisdom & quality to this one.
Knowledgeable, humble and intelligent.
He doesn’t indulge in the negativity for too long like some other guests that’ve been on in the past as shown by framing Captain Marvel’s weak story as a missed opportunity given the source material instead low IQ ranting about female this, marvel girl power etc
I'm so tired of emotive films - it's refreshing having an excellent film
What is ya’ll smoking’? Dune 2 is great. If you guys are expecting a fully faithful adaptation to the book, complete with the character development, you’re talking at least 10 hours to do it all justice. Some things have got to give and this adaptation works. The bits that got cut or abridged made sense for this adaptation. It is spectacular. It felt like the movie was 15 minutes, I was engaged the entire time. I’m a big Herbert fan and have read Dune 5 or 6 times. I hope there will be a different adaptation in the future that might focus more on other characters or the guild, but this one is a banger and I’m glad I saw it in IMAX. Siaynoq.
What are you smoking? It doesn't matter if you think they are being unrealistic because we are talking about quality. If it's not fleshed out properly then it will have weaknesses/flaws, no matter how much you bring up expectations and reality this is will always be important even if doesn't seem so to you.
Agreed. It's like they didn't even see the same movie I did. I would have thought that nerds of any stripe could see the beauty of this masterpiece, but apparently not. How can it be that the normie audience can recognize the glory of Dune Part 2 and professional nerds cannot?
Zendaya is Tessa Thompson’s younger acting sister. Same energy, passion and expression.
Same resting bish face. 😂
Except Zendaya is actually charming in real life. Tessa is just obnoxious all the time
In answer to the question of dead genres that need to be revived; “WESTERNS!” We need some super cool dark spaghetti western style bounty hunter movies shot up here in the beautiful province of Southern ALBERTA, baby! We got the Canadian Rocky Mountains and we got the Alberta Badlands… and we got snow… plenty of snow. Giant rivers of mass flood tore up the Alberta prairies ten to twelve thousand years ago. There could be some truly epic westerns shot up here on our gorgeous mountains, foothills, and prairies alike, that could be entered into the zeitgeist like “Westerns” properly deserve. We just need to re-embrace our country roots and tone down the sci-fi/comic book stuff for awhile. “Enter the Western.” 😎
I Like that, a few years ago there were some westerns that came out, that i really enjoy it. Pitty that it kind of stop. Hope that they go back to it.
Something along the lines of Quiqley down under
yeah trying to gear superhero comics towards women is like like trying to gear a shounen anime towards women, sure you might get a few here and there that love Bleach but the audience will always be predominately men, which is their target audience. they make shoujo anime geared towards women and female audience, while it can have action, its less about bulging muscles and screaming words or grunts to power up, its about love and power of friendship, and magical girls with cute pet familiars. sadly comics in the US doesnt have quite that level of separation. instead they are headstrong trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with Marvel and DC.
As someone who hasnt seen or read any Dune Media before these films. It seemed weird to add Feyd and have him be pretty much the same as Glossu. Talking to a friend he explained the major differences to the characters and I thought why add a different character but not add the differences he has.
42:11 there it is, RMB. We spent decades saying that Dune was pretty much unfilmable. Attempts were made but largely failed for many different reasons. But Villeneuve did it! It even had enough of the tone and content of the source material for even the hard-core fans to give it a 7ish/10 which isn't horrible and it still attracted normies. That is by all definitions a triumph
Love when Robert joins. It hurts me to watch him have to suppress his honest thought on the campea show. You have to fall in line or campea will kick u off his show. Can’t go against the lib agenda or he’ll throw a fit
Even on his own show he gushed about how much he loved it if anything he is suppressing his enjoyment of it to fit in with a more critical crowd
He has such a good view n modern situations in Hollywood. Very knowledgable.
That's a shame because I consider Rob a much bigger personality than campea.
Campea has had so many "wtf" moment's 😂 surprised he even still has a fanbase.
Campea is one of the biggest milquetoast around
Dune: Part Two's deviation(s) from the source material and the accelerated timeline were a bit jarring. They changed so much. Still an amazing experience, but I get the feeling a bait-and-switch might be in the offing.
That remains to be seen.
I noticed one thing: you all mostly criticize what is NOT in Dune 2, but almost nothing that IS there. To be fair, that is exactly the same what happened to LotR theatrical releases. Too bad we most likely will never get Dune extended cuts =(
We watched it today and I remember walking out wondering if there was anyone I was affected by…and that’s the issue. It was all clinical. Surface level
Absolutely, it didn't connect with me on an emotional level at all.
Much of that is down to source material. _Dune_ was never a book we loved. We admire it, like it very much, appreciate it for its achievements and what it gave to fiction going forward. But _Dune's_ characters and plots aren't relatable. The characters are unfathomably wealthy, highly-educated aristocrats playing abstract political chess games over decades or centuries. The protagonist commits insane violence and sets the galaxy on fire at the same time he bemoans his inescapable fate and becomes increasingly alien in thought and action. The closest Earth equivalent would be an oil magnate's kid killing the President and kicking off World War III while high on acid. Paul and his situation are just nothing like us. There is very little in the way of empathy.
But something like _Spider-Man?_ We love Peter Parker because we could all be him.
Wow, hearing Strange Days get some love did my sci-fi loving heart good!
No conclusion to the character of Thufur Hawat, completely missing from part 2. Didn't like what they did will Alia just keeping her in Jessica's womb. That whole scene where Stilgar sends Paul into the desert like he's sending him on some task, vision quest etc... amounts to nothing because after 5 mins he bumps into Chani?! Rabban's death was wrong. The Baron's death was wrong. Christopher Walken in his space pyjamas at the end was comedy gold. That arena scene was crazy, why have an area that's so big that all the Baron and people even higher can see is literally dots, the scene would have played better in a training room. The scene where Paul says he'll take Irulan's hand in marriage misses out the fact that he says in name only, but Chani would be his concubine. Villeneuve is too bothered by the scope, the visuals and both part 1 and 2 treat the characters badly, if he's a true fan he's done a real dirty on the source material !
Yeah I thought the bit where Stilgar sends Paul into the desert a disappointment. I expected Paul to be tested but it amounted to nothing.
Agree. Not a good movie even if you haven’t read the books to compare it too. People seem too afraid to really call it out for its many flaws.
Not to mention they steal Paul's moment of giving water to the dead.
@sterlingarcher3619I'll go and call for rain on Arrakis. It's funny to consider Lynch's Dune something canonical
Didn't expect this one to come up but Masters of the Air suffers greatly from what I assume was a sudden budget cut, because it reaches a point where it mostly cuts out any epic battle scenes and (spoiler)
.... Shoots down one of the main characters off-screen. It also builds up a side story about bailed survivors trying to get back to allied lines and just drops it until a couple episodes later they show up back in the UK without any explanation. In fact, there's an abundance of assinine decisions made the further you get into it, from blatantly unrealistic depictions of basic physics, to the show suddenly becoming a romantic drama, before currently glossing over the career of a guy who's real story could easily be the focal point of an entire series on its own.
These Dune movies are simply beautiful CG fan arts. If you've read the books, it's almost cute that Villeneuve tried.
Thanks to Quin's Ideas channel, apparently in the book Baron Harkonan, while R-wording a slaveboy, discovered a poisonous needle meant to kill him set by a teenager Feyd, THEN the Baron makes a Deal to Step Down once Feyd's Ascension is ready so stop trying to kill me for your own benefit.
There's a great deal of EVIL with a capital E that the Baron has that Hollywood just wouldn't portray. His corpulence is poetic justice from the Bene Gesserit. Movie Baron is intimidating and has gravity but not the depth that he should.
Has mauler ever substantiated why blade runner 2049 is bad?
No. Neither has Gary. And they never will, cause it’s not possible
I think its an extreme example of Denis style. I would venture a lot of people that dont like it think its "slow"
I'm sure there's a 12 hour EFAP on it, but I don't remember MauLer arguing about it on the Open Bar. The Longman does have his own host of bad takes tho.
I think Gary felt like deckard got the same treatment as Han with being a bad father and also found it boring. Personally both blade runner film are in my top 5 favorite movies
There is absolutely nothing wrong with 2049
Could have spent a bit more time with the end battle but that’s about it from me. Needs part 3.
The problem with Dune Part 2 is that most of us feel it could be one of the best movies ever. But do to a few problems (Last half of movie with Chani, rushed ending etc.) it fails. Is it a damn good movie, no doubt. But it just misses greatness and its a little frustrating.
There are no issues
Oh I'm definitely cutting up parts 1 and 2 into a fanedit. You can bet your ass im snipping the final scene.
It IS one of the best movies ever and achieved greatness.
I seriously don’t understand what you are harping on about Chani. She sucked in the book and now has an actual character
@@bfedezl2018 She's not important in the book and shouldn't be important in the movie. The decision to make her pissed off at the end doesn't make sense for the 3rd movie. Paul can see the future, all possible outcomes. She was partly responsible for his outcome, he tried to tell her he couldn't go South. But she all boss girl mad. Very poorly executed.
2:03:00 - According to Google Translate, that says, "What do you think is the most underrated movie of all time?"
2049 is awesome and I’ll die on that bridge. What it isn’t is entertainment for lazy viewers but I think that’s all there’s left
People complaining about how it sidetracked Deckard, but for me there should be even less of him. Much less. It was not his story with vastly different (but adjacent) moral questions. People still argue about self-awareness of K, Joi and reality of feelings between them. And that is arguably much deeper and interesting than original. Because of course nexus-6 were basically human slaves. it wasn't even question.
had to rewatch Devil's Advocate speech scene! man that was good. fireplace lighting "I AM A FAN OF MAN"
Seen Dune 2 in Imax TWICE now, once on Friday and today Saturday.... I didn't seem to enjoy it as much the second viewing, which is usually a red flag for me when it comes to movies.
Robert is right, the film is a technical masterpiece, but its lacking some soul. I don't feel attached to it as much as part 1, which had more heart IMO.
Rebecca Ferguson was as good in Dune 2 as Zendaya was bad. And Ferguson was amazing.
While I feel like the new DUNE is visually superior, especially Part 1, I like the knife fight scene from Lynch's DUNE infinitely more than this one. I feel it has more punch.
There was more soul, while this has the visuals and technicals.
@zogwort1522 The characters and performance I guess? Soul is felt more than quantified.
58:59 This is also why manga absolutely decimates the American comic industry. Because instead of taking their one, singular, comic genre and changing it to appeal to girls instead of the boys that read it, they have manga catering to girls and manga catering to boys.
Blade Runner 2049 is a great movie
😂😂😂
Fantastic
Gary just likes men in tights and making a living bitching about Disney every week.
GH was legit in 1985! Sean Donnelly, Scorpio, Anna Donavon. The “treasure.” Awesome
I have a few problems with Dune - the story was way too rushed, but in a minimalistic way where not a lot happened.
In the book, it takes around 3 years after Paul's father dies to when Paul defeats the Harkonen and becomes emperor, in the movie it takes less than 9 months.
- I understand why they did this - because a creepy, talking 2-year old would be too distracting for the climax.
In the book, the main motivation for Paul to confront his destiny is when Gurney almost kills his mother. Paul realizes that he has to expand his visions in order to protect the ones he loves. In the movie, he's resistant until he isn't - there's no clear reason, there's no strong motivation - he just kind of goes.
This is my problem with Dune adaptations, it's impossible to fit in all of the supporting characters and world-building that you need. Even when you hyper-focus on Paul, you have to cut out so much that is necessary to give context to what he's going through.
So while the movies are pretty good, I don't think they're good adaptations.
As a parent living just outside Glasgow, I have seen these types of scams come and go where very shady operators advertise crap like this a few times a year. We just avoid these 'attractions' like the plague. It doesn't help the organiser of this particular 'event' has an awful rep.
Dune 2 is a great movie. Been awhile since seen something I want to rush back and watch again. To each their own.
Really dug Robert Meyer Burnett discussing the different styles of sci-fi while mentioning Dune in the same tonal palette as Tarkovsky and 2001 - an elegant way to differentiate your expectations and experience of the art. Especially in.todays cinematic landscape. Check out High Life (2018) from Claire Denis for another flavour.
The hate for bladerunner 2049 is crazy. 🤦♂️
It's too philosophical and complex for most of the people.
@@faiz3711 To be fair, you have to have a high IQ to understand Blade Runner 2049.
Yes you monocle wearing Bladerunner 2049 enjoyers are very sophisticated.
@@-Zakhiel-lol, classic redditors😅
@@-Zakhiel- there isn't a single movie Hollywood has put out that requires a high IQ to watch. There's no problem solving required in movies. They literally show and tell you exactly what they want. 😂😂😂
The pacing of Dune 2 gave me whiplash
I want to see the 30-40 minutes that were obviously cut from it
Agreed the ending especially
Bladerunner 2049 surpasses the original in so many ways. Not sure what all the hate is?
I wouldn't say it surpasses it, but it holds itself up. 8/10
In like one way.. the rest is fucking dumb
It's not a great sequel. It'd be better as a standalone.
Madame Dune was one if the greatest romantic comedies I've seen in years. 😉
😂😂😂classic
Zendaya's scowl ruined it for me, but I'm a long time book nerd. The movie looked and sounded cool, but girl-boss Chani was too much
Agreed, Hollywood keeps putting her in stuff like she's a great actress or something. She's not, but they want the normies to like her.
She’s so masculine and insufferable
@@Blu3-Fir3Two words: casting couch. Don't think it's not a thing anymore in Hollywood just because ONE monster is behind bars.
@@manwiththeredface7821Wasn't she a protégé of Weinstein himself?
didnt really see her as girl boss at all, all of her actions perfectly fit a hormonal person of that age (isnt she supposed to be 16-21 in the dune universe?).
1:58:02 - "Actors playing against type?" None better than Leslie Nielsen! He was a serious actor for his whole career, right up until his last serious role in "The Poseidon Adventure" (Oh, my God.) When he starred in Airplane! and then Police Squad, that was quite against his "type."
Great gathering of film students and writers.
I feel the same way about part one of Dune. I read the book(s) back in the olden days and the characters as well as the back story would be missing had I not read the book. Just watching the film I would be confused and wondering about things like the Bene Gesserit, navigator guild and the actual intentions of them and the families and Fremen.
I was not engrossed by the characters.
Agreed, having never read the books I was definitely confused at times
The first dune movie only took off after it left theaters, seems like so many people got friends to watch it by the time the second one came out the initial audience like tripled in size😊
I typically agree with Gary and Drinker on movie opinions. But completely disagree on blade runner 2049. It's one of my favourite movies ever and WAY better than the original
Just got back from seeing Dune and I really enjoyed it. My only gripe was zendya. Will be interesting to see what they do with part 3 to conclude the story. I can't see them planning more than a trilogy and the books get a bit out there after the original.
Dune 2 is a great movie. It deserves the praise it's getting. ❤🎉
50:35 no no... we had that Fyre Festival, iirc, which it was supposed to be a luxurious weekend of music, food and lodging, but it was just an utter nightmare...
As someone that's never read dune or seen the other versions I feel like I followed it pretty well. Wasn't lost at all. I thought the movie was incredible. Maybe I got it wrong bc I don't know the story beyond what was shown and I could put together for myself.
And the early 2000s mini series is STILL the best adaption of Dune.
The ending of Dune 2 just made me want to rewatch the series. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Not-Chani in particular made me retch a fair bit, but it was more than that.
Yes I even loved children of dune mini-series, better soundtrack! The actor playing Paul killed it, plus Xavier played Maud dib's son
I agree, it is the best adaptation both seasons, HOWEVER, I still think that this film is a great attempt. I do think that this is BIFAR better than the lynch 1984 film. At least Dune 2021-2024 keeps the thematic focus and shows how cynical and sinister Jessica and Paul are.
@@genmaicha.lapsang I liked most of the casting in Lynch's Dune and I feel like the Lynch weirdness fit very well with the story. But the theatrical version suffered from having so many crucial scenes cut out.
On the one hand each family has their own collection of nukes with their own version of MAD. But then we're told that if a laser hits a shield you'll get an explosion close to a nuke... so why bother with nukes at all?
If there's anything that should have been changed, it's that shield rule. How about, instead of it casting reflect, the shield absorbs the energy of the laser so it gets stronger? That way, it would make sense for lasguns to be common weapons, but potentially ineffective against the random knife-fighter and that's why they learn melee combat.
Nice quick vid covering topics, if you skip forward when RMB talks its a concise 40 minute pod!
Ooooo shots fired lol gotta bone to pick?
What? The man with years of personal experience in the movie industry has a lot to say about said industry and the things they produce..? I am shocked, shocked I say..!
100% Robert! Dune is a massively overwhelming cinamatic experience! It’s really quite impressive.
this!! couldn't agree more with the critical feedback on Dune 2 at the start. Brilliant, spectacular - but emotinally underdeveloped - and quite badly so with Paul and Chani in particular, who should have been the emotional core
Paul and Chani were the emotional core. wtf are you smoking?
Paul says he wants princess's hand. The entire cinema: 😮😮😮
The relationship was solid
@FireJach My theatre too. The take is out of touch.
@@spectre1004 it gets to a point where I don’t know where this mofos are coming from because I felt like most of their criticism were in fact well represented in the movie
@@bfedezl2018 the comment section on this vid is cancer. It’s filled with bad takes and criticisms