I believe Nolan swears at the end, because he's saddened by the realization that he killed a family man like himself, which you could buy as Bardock brings up his sons twice in the fight.
I’m preeetty sure he was cursing out of pain, because his leg (and probably his nose from that headbutt) were broken. They just forgot to remove that dialogue when taking those scenes out
On Bardock’s characterization: I do believe some of Death Battle’s interpretation of him tried to smooth out the edges of Bardock, and being a fan of Z Bardock, I agree that it’s not my favorite interpretation of Bardock. But Bardock being selfless to an extent has always been consistent. Bardock May be a world conquering asshole yes, but it’s been stated in some sources in Dragon Ball lore that he was considered a hero by lower class saiyans because he always tried defending and saving his comrades instead of just leaving them for dead. This can even be seen in his original Z version, Bardock cares for and wishes to avenge his comrades, and values saving his race over his own well being. He’s always struck me as the selfless asshole who may be rough on the outside, but does have a heart deep down even before Super made adjustments. So in a way, Bardock IS a selfless hero by Saiyan standards.
A death battle with a dragon ball character against a comic character , awesome animation, comic character having a better analysis and the ending being controversial? Seems like regular death battle
My take/assumption on the "fuck" from nolan at the end was more him realising he's never gonna hear the end of the saiyans- bardock made it clear he should remember the saiyans, and nolan realises there's a good chance there's gonna be more to fight/deal with.
Guys! Something big happened, Death Battle changed a bunch of thumbnails, including: Omni Man vs Bardock Excalibur vs Raiden Sauron vs Lich King Vegeta vs Shadow Beerus vs Galaxia Megazord vs Voltron Zitz vs Leo Godzilla vs Gamera Fulgore vs Sektor Bomberman vs Dig Dug Kratos vs Spawn Chun Li vs Mai Raven vs Twilight Nightwing vs Daredevil Steven vs Star Metal Sonic vs Zero All Might vs Might Guy Black Canary vs Sindel I’m not sure how long it’s been like this or if I missed any, just wanted to point that out there
I know for sure a majority of that list was changed way earlier this year. Like pre RT dissolving cuz I was still at the job I had that I lost right when they did when I noticed they changed and that was like april/march.
People keep mentioning the viltrum feat because that is a feat in the series that directly shows Omni man is incapable of destroying a planet by himself. To me it seems like Bardock has more AP and more Speed so I don’t understand how he scales lower than Omni man
@@quintonbrooks7536 They highballed the fuck out of Bardock. King Vegeta never destroyed a single planet and you cannot compare post Saiyan Saga Goku to Bardock. At least Bardock is participates for his feats they giving shit to Bardock because he's featless
Actually, Omni-Man should be faster, since we have no clue whether or not Goku was at 10000 PL during his flight to Namek, so scaling Bardock to that is ridiculous. In reality, most people who put the effort into powerscaling realized Omni-Man would win. But they thought he would win by speedblitzing Bardock and throwing him into space to choke to death. No one could’ve predicted that they’d reverse the stat advantages for some arbitrary reason.
I'm a defender of the "my sons would kick his ass" interaction. Maybe it's a bit out of character but it's hilarious and touches on one of the main themes of the matchup. I think all the dialogue in the fight was great
I am honestly glad the cutaway gags or animated joke segments are gone, they only ever made me laugh once or twice and sometimes were just flat out bad.
They said in the podcast that they’re going to bring them back next episode and that they were planned for this episode but didn’t make it into the Final Cut
The people of death battle have to realize that the reason viewers are coming to watch there videos. Is because they’re in for the characters they talk about. Not for Wiz and Boom stick. The characters are the true stars of the show.
28:03 Disproving the Planet Viltrum feat is important because it blatantly shows that Omni Man doesn't scale to its destruction which would make the sun disk feat an extreme outlier and that's if you even grant them the benefit of the doubt that the sun disk calc is accurate and the scans they used to assert that Omni Man scales above the disk feat actually applies to him. They left out the fact that Mark, Thaedus, and Nolan could die if they hit the planet when the core of the planet was stable. Timing their strike with Space Racer's Infinity Ray was the only reason they survived and destroyed the planet.
I really don't care for the conclusion because its been a long time since I was actually interested in watching the analysis segments and FINALLY it's genuinely watchable.
You analyzing the storyboards makes me really happy, not to mention that, yeah, Nolan was meant to show damage, I only noticed this because I saw that the blood on his suit only appears after the first combo from super saiyan, otherwise feels like he’s completely dominating what should be a somewhat close fight.
to be fair, he's a viltrumite, and one of death battles own arguments was that they don't get tired, so it kinda works even if unintentional, plus he still feels emotionally drained even if he doesn't look physically wrecked.
I personally see why people don’t like the “My sons can kick his ass!” Line. But I found it funny, I find it funny how he’s implying his Power lvl 2 son can kick Mark’s ass and it’s a funny reference since Goku would totally kick Mark’s ass if it ever was a Death Battle. I also really like the touch that the arm Bardock lost in his final clash against Omniman was the same arm that Omniman crushed when Bardock was on the ground and about to go Oozaru. I like to think that Omniman’s earlier boot stomp on it helped weaken it enough to the point where in the final clash, it got destroyed.
I'll just say this: despite the controversial ending and the reasoning for Nolans's win, this episode isn't the worst season premiere from Death Battle. For me Nathan Drake vs Lara Croft is still the worst one. But their reasoning for the win doesn't exactly give hope for the research team going forward for this season now that they're independent. I'm hoping their research on Joker vs Giorno is more on point cause if not then i don't expect the backlash to die down anytime soon. This episode is more of a 6/10 mostly due to the research imo.
@@ectospassmta8493 Well at the very least it's good that they didn't have to cut back on the research team members. Still though the research was pretty bad in the post analysis.
@@e1iteyoshi998 Would get good if the nolan was accounted to destroy a larger planet than mass of a regular star since dpace razer wasnt able to destroyed at his own
My interpretation on Nolan saying "fuck" is this: He was exhausted and overexerted, this fight took a lot out of him, and unlike a lot of his fights in Invincible, he had to put more effort into it.
I kinda assumed it's like him realising that this guy isn't just some random one off alien but entire race exactly like viltrumites out there, especially mentioning his son that would beat his son means he's screwed if more people like Bardock will jump him.
Yeah, no offense to the animators but this episode made me really worried about Kratos vs Asura, hope this is just a 1st episode thing and they can step up the quality.
@@daboi8734I mean we saw the difference in quality I’m not concerned about bowser vs eggman either cause I’m confident in the quality. I am concerned about joker vs giorno though as we have seen no preview
and My Prediction as to who Wins I'm gonna say Joker My Reason well Joker is probably gonna have something out of nowhere that stop Giorno's Golden Requiem or whatever it's gonna be called like I'm at a point where if I'm gonna vote it's on the side I think is losing more then winning That's the Death Battle Mindset
@@thomaswellerton3783 Okay don't go there. Yeah Death Battle gets things wrong sometimes but to say that they have zero credibility is honestly absurd. Like seriously, ONE controversial matchup and people lose their shit. For me, I just like watching cool characters throw hands. I won't say that I don't care who wins, I'll root for characters sometimes, but powerscaling has always been a secondary aspect of it for me. Does Death Battle get things wrong sometimes? Yes. Are they biased sometimes? Possibly. Do I care? *NO*.
@@theultimategodofgaming3200 bro, "sometimes" they miss more than they hit, it would be a 50/50 chance of getting it right but they get results wrong more often than they get it right. They would be more credible if they flipped coins to decide who wins, they have 0 credibility and will ALWAYS have 0 credibility
Sinful shell cannot be affected by Return to Zero but they’re probably gonna do something to alter that. Idk it’s either Joker winning or Giorno. I always saw Return to Zero affecting reality bending stand abilities, epitaph and possibly time stop. They’d probably bring up forgotten abilities Giorno has too but it’ll be interesting to see.
This was a solid episode for coming back. The fight was cool except for some weird moments and voicelines. The research and analysis was good but felt a little rushed in some areas.
The research was just straight up bad if they were gonna atrociously high ball Omni man then you’re better off using the omnipotious scaling then just using the blatantly wrong solar disc calc
Man the run-up to the first independent DB was a wild ride. The Kickstarter campaign, all the battles it teased, the fans desperate attempt to get enough money for Gru vs Megamind when the campaign was almost ending, said attempt failing while simultaneously succeeding, Joshscorcher deciding in the middle of the campaign that his most wanted matchup probably wasn't gonna happen any time soon so he started to make his own DB, and that period where more than one of us thought that DB was going to join forces with Second Wind, wich Is an alternate reality I would pay to see. All this finally leading up to Omni-Man VS Bardock And it was...... A bit weird
@@dubstepbee6892 death battle x second wind would've been a wild timeline, the main ones I saw people saying should buy death battle pre-kickstarter announcement were glitch and teamfourstar
@@basimali619 heheheh that has happened MULTIPLEEEE times, this is exactly what I'm talking about, that's controversial too cuz some ppl could argue that it is right, not me, but those ppl exist
@@robchamp8556 with the other death battles I could see arguments that support their results. Here, I’m having a VERY hard time doing so, it was the easiest death battle to make, and I would’ve completely agreed with the result had they given us a proper reference (which I have)
@@robchamp8556honestly dude I don’t think a single soul has argued Omni-man winning this fight outside of the death battles duo. That was just a blatantly wrong way to handle that matchup.
@nathansmith5215 have you guys actually looked I mean tried this guy literally said the results were good so that's one guy don't know how you missed that and have you actually looked in the comment section not just skimmed through lol.
To be fair I thought Bardock was a little mishandled character-wise as well, they went out of the way to highlight aspects of his character in his analysis that are conflicted in the fight. Like him not caring about his children and how marriage didn't change the fact that he was a ruthless bastsrd conqueror. Just kind of an odd choice.
Whilst it’s so good to have them back, I must say the cynical part of my brain thinks the controversial ending was sorta done to draw attention to the series (any publicity etc…), now that it’s independent. The scaling is almost universally agreed to be wonky at best and, to me at least, Bardock got his shit roooocked in the animation 😂 Real mixed bag… excited to see where they go next!
Personally, the most aggravating thing isn't the verdict or the miffy conclusion, or hell, it's not even the backlash and the sheer overreaction to the calcs and result If people talked about something OTHER than Bardock's L then it'd be more of an enjoyable time, but out of 78 people I've seen mention Bardock, ONE of them talked about how good and raw the fight was. I just wish people would focus on the characterization more as well as the lil' references And like, SOLID STATE INVINCIBLE IS REALLY GOOD?????
Also you know the people who will try to use this and other episodes as proof "Death Battle hates Dragon Ball" (and wouldn't be surprised of people say it's disrespectful to Toriyamas passing) and others saying it was the worst episode ever
First impressions are usually important though and given that this is the first episode of their independent season it doesn't give me a lot of hope going forward for the research.
i feel like they high balled both character's but in the wrong way. Omni man should have been the faster one, with bardock being the more powerful one. Bardok just doesnt make sense being that fast and while i cannot in anyway measure the sun disk feat, the fact they they explicitly say in the info card they arent dividing the planet feat by the fact 3 people participated in it or account for the planet already being destabalized and that characters no where near planetary have injured and nearly killed omni man, it feels out of place. Also i've noticed while not explicitly calculatable, every VS community ive seen has pretty much universally agreed that combat speed does not equal travel speed, so even assuming their maximum travel speeds are correct, they cant fight anywhere near thos maximum's as once again, far slower things have hit both of them. Death battle i dont think has ever accounted for this in a fight, which i dont blame them for because again how would you calculate that without introducing some amount of bias, but it would be cool to see it mentioned at least once at some point when calculating speed. Did i enjoy the episode, absolutely. I love to see death battle back, but just add another to the list of outcomes i dont agree with.
30:06, it's simple, they don't. The sun disc "scaling" doesn't apply to Omniman at all, he was never hit by it, no Viltrumite were ever hit by it, they scaled the weapon's durability off of it's destructive power and said that if a Viltrumite can destroy it they can destroy the same thing the weapon can, wich is just stupid and has no foundation in any kind of logic whatsoever.
That's the biggest issue with the episode: like if the feat made sense in the context of the comic and show then i could buy it but because we're never shown the disc hitting Nolan, making the feat's application is flimsy at best. This happened awhile back with the remake of Cloud vs Link when they scaled Cloud's durability to surviving Sepiroth's Supernova despite him not showing any similar feats to it.
I'm like 90% sure the bit where Nolan accidentally tears off Bardock's tail is meant to poke fun at how easily Saiyans lose their tails in the series as soon as they go Oozaru. On two different occasions in the anime, someone just casually pulls of Gohan's tail like it was duct taped on. Nolan's confusion is like "Wait, i was gonna go for a spinning attack, why did this break off so easy?"
It's good to have DB back and I loved the battle. Animation was fun and it's nice seeing Devil Artemis get to bust loose, thought after seeing those storyboards, I kinda wish he had more time to work on the animation to give it more detail and polish. There was one thing in the analysis that confused me though: the ring planet destruction. I don't know if I missed something, but the way they were talking about it made it seem like Omni-Man blew up the planet of his own power...while showing a still where it's Omni-Man plus two other Viltrumites. So I was confused if that planet was blown up by Omni-Man himself or he had help and so the calc should have been divided in thirds.
Experienced vet in DBZ and Invincible. Read into the lore into both. The feats weren't scaled correctly imo.. Not here to complain about the outcome but they did Bardock so dirty. To sum it up and not go crazy in depth unless asked. Omni-man is a multicontinental threat. I can explain the feats why if anyone is interested. Most of the invincible reddit would agree. Dude got jumped by college android frat boys, the Kaiju, and then was only saved because of Mark. The guy isn't planetary if the Kaiju almost killed him. From the time we're inroduced to Bardock he's the level of King Vegeta. Planet busting. Nolan would not have successfully destroyed Viltrum and would've died if trying to do it alone. It's only because two viltrimites near his strength got lucky, and the planet was already weakened; he even stated if they didn't do it right they would have died. This isn't saying Bardock is invincible(pun intended). Goku at SSJ would've died if Namek exploded and Bardock SSJ is weaker than SSJ Goku. Scaling of the strength is off though. If King Vegeta can bust planets, Bardock can too. Nolan is proven alone that he cannot.
can a cheetah blitz a bear? Bardocks tankiness is 11 000 times storger than bardo cks base dmamage output. Bardock can hit him for days and Nolan would tank it... Its like that scene in SAO when people gang up on Kirito... Nolan can heal his wounds faster than bardock can make them.
The “Great Ape stat boost” was a stand in for Bardock’s Mentality Boost he got against Gas Though I think that’s a bit dumb - it’s a mentality boost not a form, so tbh Bardock could probably stack on another one, but that’s just hypothetically. So yeah, that’s why Super Saiyan is 500x greater than base, they included that
That is a good question if mentality boost could get stacked on Oozaru but tbf it doesn't changes anything in calcs anyway because Bardock can't have both x10 time Oozaru with SSJ1 and it's already filled up by x10 boost from mentality so calcs stay same in charts.
@@reidj2226 yeah they just labeled it as Oozaru for some reason - the mentality boost can kinda just come from anything, if Bardock locks in he gets it, kinda is just a thing with Saiyans
i think the fact nolan never looks like he's visibly being beaten even when he is getting beaten works even if it isn't intentional since that was one of their major arguments, that viltrumites don't get tired. i also like nolan yelling "fuck" it works, both because he realised who he killed, but also shows that even if he looks physically ok, he's definitely emotionally drained.
Something that should be said is that people on /co/'s death battle thread mentioned that the sun disk calc was extremely similar to the one on vs battle wiki
They lowballed Bardocks strength but highballed his speed. They highballed Omni-Man's strength but lowballed his speed. The fight animation was still great but damn, you cannot convince me that Omni Man should win given the feats provided in the episode. If they wanted to argue Omniman winning, they shouldve gone with something like "Omniman's better speed, durability and experience allowed him to outlast Bardock and adapt to his primitive fighting style, enduring the onslaught of Super Saiyan until Bardock's lack of experience with the form made him burn out before he could secure a win against Omniman". Tl;dr They argued Omniman winning in a way that doesnt make sense. There are arguments for Omniman winning, but they picked the one way that doesnt make any sense.
Idk if you'll see this but i believe why they made ssj seem like 500, is combining not ssj and great ape, but Ssj and what fans have dubbed "instinct mode" for Bardock from his Gas fight which they equated to being a 10x boost for bardock
I don’t think Omni Man should come back, i understand he’s popular but he’s overused. Neither him or Mark should get any episodes for a long while, they’re just not interesting in regards to abilities compared to other characters. If we get another fight involving Invincible it should be either Eve vs Gwen or Rex vs Bakugo
"My daddy can beat your daddy: The Episode" Good episode overall. The editing and writing were good and the fight was as good as expected from DevilArtemis. Omniman's line of "this planet isnt anyones to conquer" is a great one since not only its a reference but it shows his evolution and how he starts to care for this new planet. The idea of having the fight in Traxan is also a good one and the way Omniman cut Bardock's tail felt organic since while he couldnt know about that weakness it is such a clasic move to pull so it makes sense. Tho it has a few things that I would change about it: while the editing and analysis are good it feels way to much as an non stop espectacle without really having time to rest or let things sink and not seeing Wiz and Boomstick feels weird (I feel like death battle episodes could benefit from having 1 or 2 minutes more). And while the battle was great I would like to have seen more of the big ape and supersaiyan transformation, it feels as if things happen way to quick without really mattering. And while there a few lines here and there I expected to have a bit more of a banter between the 2 or at least show a bit more of their personalities, to have a little more of build up. And while I dont mind the ending fight wise I also think I could be done a bit better since its just having Bardock's arm blow up and then he dying afterwards, it feels a bit anticlimatic. I think it is suposed to be a jojo reference but the reason it worked in Jotaro vs Dio was because there was a lot more of build up and also his whole body ended up cracking and bursting more than in Bardock's case. I have nothing againts those last lines but I feel something missing in that ending and there are a few times in wich Omniman's face feels a bit rubbery. That being said lets talk about the elephant in the room, yeah Bardock should have won. Lets ignore the Viltrum feat (not only they needed 3 to blow it up but that was done thanks to the infinite gun ray and not only it got rip apart instead of being vaporated while they said they could die if they hit the core but for what I read it is stated that said planet is just a bit bigger than the Earth. Scaling its size from its moon is Iffy since perspective is very tricky and for what I saw it can have a ring considering its just dead bodies while having a similar mass to Earth's) and focus in the disk. Not only I have seen people debunk it saying things such as that said statement about not having weapons that could hurt them was done before having said weaponry but I also read that it was made so they couldnt hurt viltrumites or that they could just avoid it and thus why it wouldnt work. I didnt read the cómics so I have no idea, the thing is that I saw many people check the maths and say both the logic and equations (and thus the results) are wrong so in no were Omniman can scale that high. Thus makes sense since I dont get how they took those measurements and it is not explained exactly how they get to that conclusion wich is a problem because even if they are right it is not shown well to the public why it is the case. I would also like to mention some minor stuff, they make an interesting point about viltrumites having a lot of stamina, what they dont mention is that they have a huge weakness: they lack adrenaline wich is why Mark has an advantage againts them. And what does the supersaiyan transformation do to the body? Exactly, and while if dont controled can leave to them wasting energy it also refills your energy as shown in Goku vs Freezer and he also didnt have much of an issue stamina wise so i dont think it is a big concern specially since he could end the fight quick both because of his strenght and speed. As for experience i think it is overated, experience is the same as training, just a way to get better but it dosent mean you need it to get better, how many characters show a great deal of skills and knowing how to act and react with little experience? And how many characters with lots of experience cant really do much? Also, how do we exactly know that he actually has more experience. How much time of those 2k years did he actually fight (they not only conquer, they do more things and conquering also requires planning) and from those fights, how many did get him to push his limits or really have to learn further? Meanwhile the saiyans the main thing they do is fight and they are used to have close encounters (also see how quick Vegeta learned to sense power levels) plus their ability to adapt mid combat. That being said I also think they wanked Bardock too, I think I can accept filler since it is a soft composite of Bardock but my interpretation is that the King Vegeta feat is just simbolic and I dont think they got the distance between Earth and Namek well since the map they used clearly isnt up to scale. Bulma talks about the travel in the saiyan saga aftermath, I dont get why they didnt take data from there and from what I remember it isnt that far. Good episode overall, there are a few things to improve here and there (tho minor things) and Bardock losing leaves a weird taste considering we know it is not right. But solid overall. As for the dragon ball bias thing, i dont think it is a thing, its just them ignoring context while researching. And while its definetly an issue they should improve upon (sometimes they get things wrong) there are better way to comunicate it that than being toxic about it. And yeah, they also wanked db characters a lot in the past and here too so yeah, thats what i think about it. PS: its funny how the fandom thought Bardock had strenght and Omniman speed when they did the oposite
Even Super Bardock is a cocky asshole. He cares about his family but that comes after the fight . When he fights Gas he goes on about how winning is all he wants to do. But he also cares about his family.
Bardock: My son can defeat yours! Me: Haha, well, I think there is no doubt about that. Bardock: Am talking about Raditz Me: Oh... that's another thing.
32:45 yeah ssj doesn't multiply off great ape it's just 50x base, or at least the grade 1 version is. I think the GT scalers claim that golden great ape cannot just be ssj 50x stacked on great ape 10x cause Baby would've stomped Golden great ape Goku if that was the case, and the logic for that is there.
The thing that upset me the most about this episode is they list Full Power Energy Wave as one of Bardock's ki based attacks but then the fight animation has him using Full Power Energy Blast Volley which wasn't listed as one of his ki based attacks. Other than that, I'm not really a fan of this episode, but I don't hate/dislike it either
I think it’s pretty clear that a giant laser cannon meant to destroy planets isn’t gonna be able to kill a mobile target. Might have the destructive capacity, but someone would literally have to be able to subdue and tie them up before you can take a shot at them.
Dude this really stretching lmao y'all are grasping for straws at this point the man said there weapons could not harm them pay attention not because they could just Dodge it but because they literally can't kill them. One guy even said "even if we rounded up all the vulturmites it's not like we can kill them" another guy responds with "and imprisonment is just out of the question" I can just tell you didn't watch the show at least try and educate yourself. Like this comment made me so angry maybe because it sounded so Smart ass like dude obviously they thought about subduing them first before saying are weapons can't harm them. Please actually educate yourself before trying to be a smart ass because now you look like a idiot
Too bad DB doesn't care about logic or what is consistent let alone anti feats like needing Space Racer's gun and 3 whole other viltrumites one of wich is way stronger than Omniman to BARELLY destroy a planet
@@Shyguy-3300 also Omniman isn't 1/3 of that because most of the actual feat is due to Space Racer shooting the planet with his gun beforehand, they literally say that they couldn't destroy it if he didn't shoot it
Death Battle has managed the impossible and brought together both haters and superfans, and it's so they can all say that Death Battle got this one wrong
Yeah I saw that. Also a shame the whole headbutting clash, Bardock breaking Nolan’s leg, and Nolan snapping Bardock’s wrist didn’t make it to the final
I honestly didn't even realize the cut away gags were gone. And tbh for the direction where the show is going right where they're going have to reserve most of their budget on the important parts of the episode, I think its best they stop doing them entirely going forward.
19:04 I took omniman referring to bardock as a saiyan as a sign of respect since earlier in the fight he said "whatever you are your an embarrassment" and seeing bardocks true power no made nolan respect him enough to use the races name instead of degrading him by calling him another insult. Also Nolan saying "fuck" i took as a realization that bardock was in fact not an embarrassment
Why would I skip the adds? Theyre actually amusing and i actually enjoy some of the drinks... though i do feel a bit concerned with the possibility that you don't have a choice in advertising something you don't like...
Good Death Battle I really enjoyed it! I'm rambling so bear with me. One thing about the "debunking" is that I wish people would focus more on the Solar Disk calc itself instead of trying to hand wave it as just being an outlier. Because DBZ characters are not going to like that standard lmao In Dragon Ball Super Goku, Krillin and even Goku Black were harmed by bullets. It just wouldn't be fair to treat Nolan one way and ignore it for Dragon Ball. And honestly they stacked the shit out of Bardock for this episode. Giving him everything across multiple continuities (even if it was impossible for him to have both) and the most generous scaling. And the black boxes brought it up but they could've given Nolan scaling from Universa which would've put his speed way above Base Bardock and Oozaru. (tldr Mark was able to catch her by surprise and even disarm her so reasonably Nolan would be able to as well) Death Battle analysis is interesting and sometimes frustrating because 9/10 times I agree with the conclusion but not how they got there. I feel like if they spent just a little more time properly explaining their calculations it would make a huge difference. Like Ben 10 vs Green Lantern's backlash was purely because they poorly explained their reasoning, not the result itself.
@@quintonbrooks7536 Yeah for sure. Tho all three I mentioned in Super were pretty serious. Krillin is bleeding after taking a bullet for one of his officers. The point being that characters will always have things that contradict previous feats and that its not fair to disregard the Sun Disk because of later cases of them struggling. Because Dragon Ball characters have been harmed by far weaker things consistently.
@@rolfy675 Dragon ball characters have an excuse, it happens because dragon ball characters have their stats amped by KI, they need to be using Ki for it to apply to them, Super Sayan Goku back in the Boo ark taking a rock to the head and getting hurt is not an outler he was relaxed, when the Z fighters are not ready for fighting and not using Ki they have lower stats. Viltrumites don't get less durable when they aren't fighting
Also there is no reason to "debunk" the Sun Disc scaling as it doesn't apply to Omniman at all, he was never hit by it, no Viltrumites were EVER hit by it, they don't scale to it at all, in fact, end of the sceries Mark was fighting a guy in the surface of the Sun and he died because of it, he was a Viltrumite HUNDREDS of times stronger than Omniman. Omniman is moon level, most of his feats are actually around continent level, if you REALLY wank him you can get to planetery, even though they LITERALLY say they wouldn't be able to destroy the Viltrumite's planet without Space Racer shooting the core with his gun and destabilizin the core, AND that if the 3 of them didn't hit it at the same time and on the perfect angle at the right speed they would have DIED on impact. You can't even say Nolan did most of the work there because Mark was already stronger than him at that point, he took down another Viltrumite that had previously shit all over Omniman in a fight, like, it wasn't even close, he got beatup and bullied in it, then comes Mark and beats the guy up no problem. TldR, there is no need to debunk the Sun Disc because it doesn't apply to anyone in the verse really, nobody was ever hit by that thing, people who use it are the morons that took the fact that Viltrumites destroyed it and scaled those Viltrumites attack power to the gun's durability and they just decided to scale the gun's durability to it's destructive capacity, wich is just wrong, it's not even close.
I pretty much agree with all your critiques, except I really like the sound design during the SSJ sequence, the muted hits I personally thought fit really nicely with the setting. Also, it mirrored the fight with Gas in a cool way, where during that fight, Bardock uses speed/skill to tap Gas throughout the fight, but gets overpowered every time Gas lands a hit, until he slowly grows in power until he's able to overpower him in their last clash, so having a similar buildup, but instead of coming out on top, it gives Omniman the opening to land the killing worked really well for me. Anyway, great review as usual, really solid episode overall, not perfect, but a great start to the new era of Death Battle. Also, as an aside, does anyone else feel like this was some of DevilArtimis's best hand to hand choreography?
I am going to say it. I prefer Omnilamder. Weird how I haven’t seen that sentiment often. Everyone laughed when he said fuck I was at the premiere, so personal experiences make me like the episode more.
I interpreted Nolan’s last words as him realizing there’s more of these fuckers out there and they’re gonna come. It’s like he’s saying “fuck, there’s more of these little shits isn’t there?”
I'd like to say even though they got the result wrong, they got everything else right, the characterization, the music, and the analyses were great. It genuinely felt like a sequel to Omni Man vs Homelander
Think it’s important to remember that they aren’t “wrong”. By their own logic and what they find credible. Unless it’s something like super sonic can breath underwater like back in the day, we all have to remember stuff like this is entirely subjective
Again, don't care for conclusion or calcs, BUT Brandon Yates and DevilArtemis cooked up so hard and it's got me excited for death battles future. Also, the production value for these videos is getting even better somehow.
The main reason people are upset is because they extreme high baller Nolan and kinda whiffed bardock a bit for this fight. Nolan didn’t destroy the planet on his own. It took him and 2 others I.E his son and that other guy ( just woke up so forgot his name ). And they needed a special condition to blow the planet up as well cause if it was stable they would instantly die on impact. Even with them destroying the planet it wasn’t done solo, so at best a third of that str cal should go to Nolan. Btw, Bardock doesn’t just get SSJ in that animation you saw he reached SSJ3 as well if you went a bit further. If they was going to go with the uncannon and give him SSJ might as well go all the way and give him the SSJ3 feat as well.
Nolan destroying the planet was not relevant, as Bardock surpass that feat. And Bardock very clearly did not turn SSJ3. Nor do they include it. So I have no idea where you got that from.
@@danm2068 they said that Nolan out powers Bardock in Str due to that planet burst feat. Yes, Bardock went SSJ3 in Super Heroes. That why I stated they should’ve given him SSJ3 cause it’s a form he had gained in anime.
@@DipperTheJackalope *No they didn't.* Replay it; Nolan overpowered Bardock with the *Sun Disk feat.* NOT the planet bust feat. Yeah in HEROES. Which is not canon. This is canon/Toei Bardock, not Bardock from heroes.They were already hesitant of giving Bardock Super Saiyan form. SSJ3 would've pushing it.
This is solely my interpretation because it’s funny, I like to think Bardock’s line about his son kicking Mark’s ass is just supposed to be because Goku at this point is a baby and one of his lines was just “Power Level of 2… pathetic”. Maybe not the intention but it’s funny. EDIT: I gotta pay more attention.
Tbh nice review and battle but my only problem is the conclusion to make it short and simple how can Omni man be as strong as dwarf star lvl attack when he struggles later on in the series from when the sun disk was introduced with drestroying 1 planet doesn’t make any sense
The Sun Disc calculation doesn't apply to him because 1 he was never hit by it and 2 they scale Viltrumites to it because a Viltrumite destroyed the machine, wich the gun's durability doesn't match the atack power it has. But it's classic Death Battle, their scaling sucks and it always will suck. Omniman is consistently moon level, most of his feats are actually around continental, he doesn't get to planetary without wank and he certainly is not even close to star level, neither in durability or power
Well it's a typical death battle episode. It's hace to popular characters, stats that are out of context, good fight to great fight this time, and a outcome that is soooooooooooo wrong. Death battle has truly never left.
As a person who kinda disagrees with the verdict (I am more so in the camp of Bardock taking the win), but I will admit the matchup is admittedly pretty debatable, and the logic and explanation Death battle provided was pretty good. Honestly, good episode. It was a nice review, glad to see death battle is back.
I know it's not perfect, but I loved the episode. Animation was fire, especially the stuff around the blue star, I really liked the interactions for an episode with two guys I didn't know too well, and the editing was really cool in the analysis. Actually, I just really liked the analysis; people are calling their research lazy because they disagree with the conclusions, but I actually find it impressive how they found and calc'd these two obscure feats for each character that completely flipped the fight dynamic around. I know a lot of people are calling the scaling on this match-up iffy, but if I may share my opinion, I personally buy the verdict. Or at the very least, I don't believe the reasons people give _not_ to buy it. Outside circumstance means the planet feat doesn't really work as the anti-feat people are using it as (although the same circumstance means it doesn't work as a regular feat either for Omniman...like the planet takes a hit from a star-buster & the Viltrumites; at that point that's only a feat for the planet) and supporting evidence for the sun disk feat lends it more credibility. So overall the episode is fine to me. (Do definitely wish they'd talked about Conquest and how he more directly scaled to the sun disk ship though. Feels like they would've avoided a lot of dissatisfaction with the episode if they had vocalized more evidence for that feat than just a vague statement.)
Outside of the result and them ignoring some... important, to say the least, things in nolan's analysis and the end explanation that would change the result, i do think the episode is pretty good. Nolan was very in character and super saiyan and especially oozaru, both of which never really got their proper time to shine in death battle, are great.
So how muchdid the extra material of Dragon Ball being used? Like Bardock is far stronger in something like Super Heroes and Xenoverse than he is in any animated material. Like dude fights Gogeta SSJ4 one on One in some of those, then also achieves the three numbered forms of the Regular Super Saiyan all at once in Xenoverse. That is without mentioning the outrageous power that version also has in base, fighting against Super Saiyans, etc. Its weird that Optimus Prime is merged into this weird version for the Gundam battle, but for Bardock it''s mostly just the bits from Minus/Super, and the two specials. The Minus/Super stuff not really given him any extra scaling, just character motivation.
Would've been way better to have omni-man fly at full speed through the moon back at bardock and their clash destroys the planet before bardock fully powers down to base.
I believe Nolan swears at the end, because he's saddened by the realization that he killed a family man like himself, which you could buy as Bardock brings up his sons twice in the fight.
I honestly had interpreted it as just an exclamation after a tough encounter, like "Fuck [that was rough]."
I figured it was because he realized there would be more saiyans coming after Thraxa now that Bardock's been killed
@@grey-c8138I thought the same too
All 3 interpretationd are valid imo, in spite of what the Wiki says.
I’m preeetty sure he was cursing out of pain, because his leg (and probably his nose from that headbutt) were broken. They just forgot to remove that dialogue when taking those scenes out
On Bardock’s characterization:
I do believe some of Death Battle’s interpretation of him tried to smooth out the edges of Bardock, and being a fan of Z Bardock, I agree that it’s not my favorite interpretation of Bardock. But Bardock being selfless to an extent has always been consistent. Bardock May be a world conquering asshole yes, but it’s been stated in some sources in Dragon Ball lore that he was considered a hero by lower class saiyans because he always tried defending and saving his comrades instead of just leaving them for dead. This can even be seen in his original Z version, Bardock cares for and wishes to avenge his comrades, and values saving his race over his own well being. He’s always struck me as the selfless asshole who may be rough on the outside, but does have a heart deep down even before Super made adjustments. So in a way, Bardock IS a selfless hero by Saiyan standards.
selfless asshole is one of the best words i've read in a while ngl
I loved the part when bardock said: i'm the dbz history of bardock.
"Maybe... but I'm invincible" 🔥🔥🔥
@@therealsmalki'm the Invincible🥶
@@FrancisL4D now you're catching on... I AM THE INVINCIBLE!
@@doshep_hegex dragon ball z: the history of bardock fkn dies*
Maybe...but I'm Invincible
Bardock: Wait isn't that your son
Omni Man:..... Go into the sun now
A death battle with a dragon ball character against a comic character , awesome animation, comic character having a better analysis and the ending being controversial?
Seems like regular death battle
Don't forget to include the Dragon Ball character losing and now it's 8-10 (7-9 not including Gogeta vs Vegito)
I prefer Bardock analyse
The analysis was alright but the major feats for determining strength and sped for both characters are soo off
Welp we got a controversial result for the return,
Yup, We're So Back
And it's only gonna get even more controversial with the next one.....
I can't wait
My take/assumption on the "fuck" from nolan at the end was more him realising he's never gonna hear the end of the saiyans- bardock made it clear he should remember the saiyans, and nolan realises there's a good chance there's gonna be more to fight/deal with.
"Clairvoyant Snide Remarks Man"
Bardock: USELESS-ASS PSYCHIC POWERS!!!
I disagree with the outcome
Guys! Something big happened, Death Battle changed a bunch of thumbnails, including:
Omni Man vs Bardock
Excalibur vs Raiden
Sauron vs Lich King
Vegeta vs Shadow
Beerus vs Galaxia
Megazord vs Voltron
Zitz vs Leo
Godzilla vs Gamera
Fulgore vs Sektor
Bomberman vs Dig Dug
Kratos vs Spawn
Chun Li vs Mai
Raven vs Twilight
Nightwing vs Daredevil
Steven vs Star
Metal Sonic vs Zero
All Might vs Might Guy
Black Canary vs Sindel
I’m not sure how long it’s been like this or if I missed any, just wanted to point that out there
I know for sure a majority of that list was changed way earlier this year. Like pre RT dissolving cuz I was still at the job I had that I lost right when they did when I noticed they changed and that was like april/march.
Add black canary and sindel
@@Liex59Do you know why they used these weird ass new images and pngs for the thumbnails?? They look like shit I'm not gonna lie
I notice this too! I don't know why they did that.
A lot of those, not all, but a decent chunk of those used fanart of the characters in thumbnails uncredited
People keep mentioning the viltrum feat because that is a feat in the series that directly shows Omni man is incapable of destroying a planet by himself. To me it seems like Bardock has more AP and more Speed so I don’t understand how he scales lower than Omni man
They high ball Omni men
@@quintonbrooks7536 They highballed the fuck out of Bardock. King Vegeta never destroyed a single planet and you cannot compare post Saiyan Saga Goku to Bardock.
At least Bardock is participates for his feats they giving shit to Bardock because he's featless
DB hates dragon ball.
why are you surprise?
Actually, Omni-Man should be faster, since we have no clue whether or not Goku was at 10000 PL during his flight to Namek, so scaling Bardock to that is ridiculous. In reality, most people who put the effort into powerscaling realized Omni-Man would win. But they thought he would win by speedblitzing Bardock and throwing him into space to choke to death. No one could’ve predicted that they’d reverse the stat advantages for some arbitrary reason.
If you watched the episode they mention the size and density of the planet. Not every planet is the same, come on.
I'm a defender of the "my sons would kick his ass" interaction. Maybe it's a bit out of character but it's hilarious and touches on one of the main themes of the matchup. I think all the dialogue in the fight was great
@@joozhuah8017
I perceive it as a little twist of the whole "My Dad can beat Your Dad" meme
I am honestly glad the cutaway gags or animated joke segments are gone, they only ever made me laugh once or twice and sometimes were just flat out bad.
Yeah most of the jokes were cringe.
They said in the podcast that they’re going to bring them back next episode and that they were planned for this episode but didn’t make it into the Final Cut
I miss the classic offscreen jokes, like Boomstick trying to do the satsui no hado on Wiz and then tripped and fell on his keys
The people of death battle have to realize that the reason viewers are coming to watch there videos. Is because they’re in for the characters they talk about. Not for Wiz and Boom stick. The characters are the true stars of the show.
But it haded some significant substance to the analysis,so they weren't just wiki pages red by two diferent people
28:03 Disproving the Planet Viltrum feat is important because it blatantly shows that Omni Man doesn't scale to its destruction which would make the sun disk feat an extreme outlier and that's if you even grant them the benefit of the doubt that the sun disk calc is accurate and the scans they used to assert that Omni Man scales above the disk feat actually applies to him.
They left out the fact that Mark, Thaedus, and Nolan could die if they hit the planet when the core of the planet was stable. Timing their strike with Space Racer's Infinity Ray was the only reason they survived and destroyed the planet.
I really don't care for the conclusion because its been a long time since I was actually interested in watching the analysis segments and FINALLY it's genuinely watchable.
You analyzing the storyboards makes me really happy, not to mention that, yeah, Nolan was meant to show damage, I only noticed this because I saw that the blood on his suit only appears after the first combo from super saiyan, otherwise feels like he’s completely dominating what should be a somewhat close fight.
to be fair, he's a viltrumite, and one of death battles own arguments was that they don't get tired, so it kinda works even if unintentional, plus he still feels emotionally drained even if he doesn't look physically wrecked.
Hey to my fellow Persona fans, what is you favorite Joker matchups
I personally see why people don’t like the “My sons can kick his ass!” Line. But I found it funny, I find it funny how he’s implying his Power lvl 2 son can kick Mark’s ass and it’s a funny reference since Goku would totally kick Mark’s ass if it ever was a Death Battle. I also really like the touch that the arm Bardock lost in his final clash against Omniman was the same arm that Omniman crushed when Bardock was on the ground and about to go Oozaru. I like to think that Omniman’s earlier boot stomp on it helped weaken it enough to the point where in the final clash, it got destroyed.
I'll just say this: despite the controversial ending and the reasoning for Nolans's win, this episode isn't the worst season premiere from Death Battle. For me Nathan Drake vs Lara Croft is still the worst one. But their reasoning for the win doesn't exactly give hope for the research team going forward for this season now that they're independent. I'm hoping their research on Joker vs Giorno is more on point cause if not then i don't expect the backlash to die down anytime soon. This episode is more of a 6/10 mostly due to the research imo.
It's the same research team as before
@@ectospassmta8493 Well at the very least it's good that they didn't have to cut back on the research team members. Still though the research was pretty bad in the post analysis.
@@e1iteyoshi998
Would get good if the nolan was accounted to destroy a larger planet than mass of a regular star since dpace razer wasnt able to destroyed at his own
we saw it here folks Nem is canonically hyperversal
My interpretation on Nolan saying "fuck" is this: He was exhausted and overexerted, this fight took a lot out of him, and unlike a lot of his fights in Invincible, he had to put more effort into it.
I kinda assumed it's like him realising that this guy isn't just some random one off alien but entire race exactly like viltrumites out there, especially mentioning his son that would beat his son means he's screwed if more people like Bardock will jump him.
@@reidj2226 that's also a really good interpretation ngl
Bro that "YES! YES! HE SAID IT! NO! NO! NOT THAT MATCHUP!" at the end is the hardest ive laughed in weeks
33:32 bro turned into the guy DanTDM is “beefing” with
How?
@@joelikechi-konkwo1074 its him mimicking ksi's
YES YES YES YES YES
NO NO NO NO FUCK NOOO
Yoooo glad to see you’re back!
Hot Take: Omni Man vs Bardock should’ve been released much later.
Agreed
Yeah I saw the storyboard and the ending was extremely cut down, even if it was still great
Yeah, no offense to the animators but this episode made me really worried about Kratos vs Asura, hope this is just a 1st episode thing and they can step up the quality.
@@daboi8734I mean we saw the difference in quality
I’m not concerned about bowser vs eggman either cause I’m confident in the quality.
I am concerned about joker vs giorno though as we have seen no preview
@@gamercentral2417 There wasnt even a release date for Joker vs Giorno
Joker vs Giorno is going to tear the fanbase apart no matter who wins.
and My Prediction as to who Wins I'm gonna say Joker
My Reason well Joker is probably gonna have something out of nowhere that stop Giorno's Golden Requiem or whatever it's gonna be called like I'm at a point where if I'm gonna vote it's on the side I think is losing more then winning
That's the Death Battle Mindset
Doesn't matter, DB scaling and character analysis has always sucked and will always suck, they have ZERO credibility so who cares?
@@thomaswellerton3783 Okay don't go there. Yeah Death Battle gets things wrong sometimes but to say that they have zero credibility is honestly absurd.
Like seriously, ONE controversial matchup and people lose their shit. For me, I just like watching cool characters throw hands. I won't say that I don't care who wins, I'll root for characters sometimes, but powerscaling has always been a secondary aspect of it for me.
Does Death Battle get things wrong sometimes? Yes.
Are they biased sometimes? Possibly.
Do I care?
*NO*.
@@theultimategodofgaming3200 bro, "sometimes" they miss more than they hit, it would be a 50/50 chance of getting it right but they get results wrong more often than they get it right.
They would be more credible if they flipped coins to decide who wins, they have 0 credibility and will ALWAYS have 0 credibility
Sinful shell cannot be affected by Return to Zero but they’re probably gonna do something to alter that. Idk it’s either Joker winning or Giorno.
I always saw Return to Zero affecting reality bending stand abilities, epitaph and possibly time stop. They’d probably bring up forgotten abilities Giorno has too but it’ll be interesting to see.
This was a solid episode for coming back. The fight was cool except for some weird moments and voicelines. The research and analysis was good but felt a little rushed in some areas.
The research was just straight up bad if they were gonna atrociously high ball Omni man then you’re better off using the omnipotious scaling then just using the blatantly wrong solar disc calc
their own stats make bardock the winner in base and its not even close idk how tf they came to the conclusion that bardock wins
Man the run-up to the first independent DB was a wild ride.
The Kickstarter campaign, all the battles it teased, the fans desperate attempt to get enough money for Gru vs Megamind when the campaign was almost ending, said attempt failing while simultaneously succeeding, Joshscorcher deciding in the middle of the campaign that his most wanted matchup probably wasn't gonna happen any time soon so he started to make his own DB, and that period where more than one of us thought that DB was going to join forces with Second Wind, wich Is an alternate reality I would pay to see.
All this finally leading up to Omni-Man VS Bardock
And it was......
A bit weird
@@dubstepbee6892 death battle x second wind would've been a wild timeline, the main ones I saw people saying should buy death battle pre-kickstarter announcement were glitch and teamfourstar
I watched through the whole ad just to spite your future vision. So take that!
It's definitely very controversial, and that's EXACTLY how it goes
Problem is unlike before it’s not just controversial, it’s outright wrong.
@@basimali619 heheheh that has happened MULTIPLEEEE times, this is exactly what I'm talking about, that's controversial too cuz some ppl could argue that it is right, not me, but those ppl exist
@@robchamp8556 with the other death battles I could see arguments that support their results. Here, I’m having a VERY hard time doing so, it was the easiest death battle to make, and I would’ve completely agreed with the result had they given us a proper reference (which I have)
@@robchamp8556honestly dude I don’t think a single soul has argued Omni-man winning this fight outside of the death battles duo. That was just a blatantly wrong way to handle that matchup.
@nathansmith5215 have you guys actually looked I mean tried this guy literally said the results were good so that's one guy don't know how you missed that and have you actually looked in the comment section not just skimmed through lol.
To be fair I thought Bardock was a little mishandled character-wise as well, they went out of the way to highlight aspects of his character in his analysis that are conflicted in the fight. Like him not caring about his children and how marriage didn't change the fact that he was a ruthless bastsrd conqueror. Just kind of an odd choice.
3:22 neat callback to Deku vs Asta's reaction that gotta be the best DB reaction video I've ever seen. Never gets old.
He gave himself feats 😱
Whilst it’s so good to have them back, I must say the cynical part of my brain thinks the controversial ending was sorta done to draw attention to the series (any publicity etc…), now that it’s independent. The scaling is almost universally agreed to be wonky at best and, to me at least, Bardock got his shit roooocked in the animation 😂
Real mixed bag… excited to see where they go next!
Personally, the most aggravating thing isn't the verdict or the miffy conclusion, or hell, it's not even the backlash and the sheer overreaction to the calcs and result
If people talked about something OTHER than Bardock's L then it'd be more of an enjoyable time, but out of 78 people I've seen mention Bardock, ONE of them talked about how good and raw the fight was.
I just wish people would focus on the characterization more as well as the lil' references
And like, SOLID STATE INVINCIBLE IS REALLY GOOD?????
Who was the one?
@@manofiron5934
I don't remember the @ but they were saying how raw the scene with SSJ Bardock was, even had thr entire scene clipped in
Also you know the people who will try to use this and other episodes as proof "Death Battle hates Dragon Ball" (and wouldn't be surprised of people say it's disrespectful to Toriyamas passing) and others saying it was the worst episode ever
First impressions are usually important though and given that this is the first episode of their independent season it doesn't give me a lot of hope going forward for the research.
@@LeaderOfTheLostSouls I'm thinking it'll go either way.
i feel like they high balled both character's but in the wrong way. Omni man should have been the faster one, with bardock being the more powerful one. Bardok just doesnt make sense being that fast and while i cannot in anyway measure the sun disk feat, the fact they they explicitly say in the info card they arent dividing the planet feat by the fact 3 people participated in it or account for the planet already being destabalized and that characters no where near planetary have injured and nearly killed omni man, it feels out of place. Also i've noticed while not explicitly calculatable, every VS community ive seen has pretty much universally agreed that combat speed does not equal travel speed, so even assuming their maximum travel speeds are correct, they cant fight anywhere near thos maximum's as once again, far slower things have hit both of them. Death battle i dont think has ever accounted for this in a fight, which i dont blame them for because again how would you calculate that without introducing some amount of bias, but it would be cool to see it mentioned at least once at some point when calculating speed.
Did i enjoy the episode, absolutely. I love to see death battle back, but just add another to the list of outcomes i dont agree with.
They only highballed bardock’s speed everything else was a blatant low ball
Man, as someone training to be a voice actor, I’d love to be in a versus show of any kind
Hope you make it
@@ectospassmta8493 Thanks. Me too
We are so back lads! Always appreciate your takes Nem. Cheers man 💜
30:06, it's simple, they don't.
The sun disc "scaling" doesn't apply to Omniman at all, he was never hit by it, no Viltrumite were ever hit by it, they scaled the weapon's durability off of it's destructive power and said that if a Viltrumite can destroy it they can destroy the same thing the weapon can, wich is just stupid and has no foundation in any kind of logic whatsoever.
That's like saying "oh because I broke this shotgun in half, i can easily survive getting shot by one"
@@antibiotics514 yup, it's incredible how stupid it is but they still used it
That's the biggest issue with the episode: like if the feat made sense in the context of the comic and show then i could buy it but because we're never shown the disc hitting Nolan, making the feat's application is flimsy at best. This happened awhile back with the remake of Cloud vs Link when they scaled Cloud's durability to surviving Sepiroth's Supernova despite him not showing any similar feats to it.
@@LeaderOfTheLostSouls Agreed.
I'm like 90% sure the bit where Nolan accidentally tears off Bardock's tail is meant to poke fun at how easily Saiyans lose their tails in the series as soon as they go Oozaru. On two different occasions in the anime, someone just casually pulls of Gohan's tail like it was duct taped on. Nolan's confusion is like "Wait, i was gonna go for a spinning attack, why did this break off so easy?"
33:32 so glad to hear that someone else had my exact reaction to this next matchup
Aw man the storyboard is so awsome it makes me want to see it fully realised, but I understand it would have been much tougher
I know right. Omni man catching Bardock's fist would've been a perfect reference to Red Rush
It's good to have DB back and I loved the battle. Animation was fun and it's nice seeing Devil Artemis get to bust loose, thought after seeing those storyboards, I kinda wish he had more time to work on the animation to give it more detail and polish.
There was one thing in the analysis that confused me though: the ring planet destruction. I don't know if I missed something, but the way they were talking about it made it seem like Omni-Man blew up the planet of his own power...while showing a still where it's Omni-Man plus two other Viltrumites. So I was confused if that planet was blown up by Omni-Man himself or he had help and so the calc should have been divided in thirds.
Experienced vet in DBZ and Invincible. Read into the lore into both. The feats weren't scaled correctly imo.. Not here to complain about the outcome but they did Bardock so dirty.
To sum it up and not go crazy in depth unless asked. Omni-man is a multicontinental threat. I can explain the feats why if anyone is interested. Most of the invincible reddit would agree. Dude got jumped by college android frat boys, the Kaiju, and then was only saved because of Mark. The guy isn't planetary if the Kaiju almost killed him.
From the time we're inroduced to Bardock he's the level of King Vegeta. Planet busting.
Nolan would not have successfully destroyed Viltrum and would've died if trying to do it alone. It's only because two viltrimites near his strength got lucky, and the planet was already weakened; he even stated if they didn't do it right they would have died. This isn't saying Bardock is invincible(pun intended). Goku at SSJ would've died if Namek exploded and Bardock SSJ is weaker than SSJ Goku.
Scaling of the strength is off though. If King Vegeta can bust planets, Bardock can too. Nolan is proven alone that he cannot.
Respect on your thoughtful analysis and observations. Sub.
I love the part where Nolan said you will lose, because I am Invincible™
We gonna ignore that according to death battles calcs that Bardock isn't just faster he's like thousands of times faster in base alone.
can a cheetah blitz a bear? Bardocks tankiness is 11 000 times storger than bardo cks base dmamage output. Bardock can hit him for days and Nolan would tank it... Its like that scene in SAO when people gang up on Kirito... Nolan can heal his wounds faster than bardock can make them.
The “Great Ape stat boost” was a stand in for Bardock’s Mentality Boost he got against Gas
Though I think that’s a bit dumb - it’s a mentality boost not a form, so tbh Bardock could probably stack on another one, but that’s just hypothetically.
So yeah, that’s why Super Saiyan is 500x greater than base, they included that
That is a good question if mentality boost could get stacked on Oozaru but tbf it doesn't changes anything in calcs anyway because Bardock can't have both x10 time Oozaru with SSJ1 and it's already filled up by x10 boost from mentality so calcs stay same in charts.
@@reidj2226 yeah they just labeled it as Oozaru for some reason - the mentality boost can kinda just come from anything, if Bardock locks in he gets it, kinda is just a thing with Saiyans
i think the fact nolan never looks like he's visibly being beaten even when he is getting beaten works even if it isn't intentional since that was one of their major arguments, that viltrumites don't get tired.
i also like nolan yelling "fuck" it works, both because he realised who he killed, but also shows that even if he looks physically ok, he's definitely emotionally drained.
Something that should be said is that people on /co/'s death battle thread mentioned that the sun disk calc was extremely similar to the one on vs battle wiki
we are SO fucking back
They lowballed Bardocks strength but highballed his speed. They highballed Omni-Man's strength but lowballed his speed.
The fight animation was still great but damn, you cannot convince me that Omni Man should win given the feats provided in the episode.
If they wanted to argue Omniman winning, they shouldve gone with something like "Omniman's better speed, durability and experience allowed him to outlast Bardock and adapt to his primitive fighting style, enduring the onslaught of Super Saiyan until Bardock's lack of experience with the form made him burn out before he could secure a win against Omniman".
Tl;dr They argued Omniman winning in a way that doesnt make sense. There are arguments for Omniman winning, but they picked the one way that doesnt make any sense.
Idk if you'll see this but i believe why they made ssj seem like 500, is combining not ssj and great ape, but Ssj and what fans have dubbed "instinct mode" for Bardock from his Gas fight which they equated to being a 10x boost for bardock
If that's the case it should've been made clear
I don’t think Omni Man should come back, i understand he’s popular but he’s overused. Neither him or Mark should get any episodes for a long while, they’re just not interesting in regards to abilities compared to other characters. If we get another fight involving Invincible it should be either Eve vs Gwen or Rex vs Bakugo
"My daddy can beat your daddy: The Episode"
Good episode overall. The editing and writing were good and the fight was as good as expected from DevilArtemis. Omniman's line of "this planet isnt anyones to conquer" is a great one since not only its a reference but it shows his evolution and how he starts to care for this new planet. The idea of having the fight in Traxan is also a good one and the way Omniman cut Bardock's tail felt organic since while he couldnt know about that weakness it is such a clasic move to pull so it makes sense. Tho it has a few things that I would change about it: while the editing and analysis are good it feels way to much as an non stop espectacle without really having time to rest or let things sink and not seeing Wiz and Boomstick feels weird (I feel like death battle episodes could benefit from having 1 or 2 minutes more). And while the battle was great I would like to have seen more of the big ape and supersaiyan transformation, it feels as if things happen way to quick without really mattering. And while there a few lines here and there I expected to have a bit more of a banter between the 2 or at least show a bit more of their personalities, to have a little more of build up. And while I dont mind the ending fight wise I also think I could be done a bit better since its just having Bardock's arm blow up and then he dying afterwards, it feels a bit anticlimatic. I think it is suposed to be a jojo reference but the reason it worked in Jotaro vs Dio was because there was a lot more of build up and also his whole body ended up cracking and bursting more than in Bardock's case. I have nothing againts those last lines but I feel something missing in that ending and there are a few times in wich Omniman's face feels a bit rubbery.
That being said lets talk about the elephant in the room, yeah Bardock should have won. Lets ignore the Viltrum feat (not only they needed 3 to blow it up but that was done thanks to the infinite gun ray and not only it got rip apart instead of being vaporated while they said they could die if they hit the core but for what I read it is stated that said planet is just a bit bigger than the Earth. Scaling its size from its moon is Iffy since perspective is very tricky and for what I saw it can have a ring considering its just dead bodies while having a similar mass to Earth's) and focus in the disk. Not only I have seen people debunk it saying things such as that said statement about not having weapons that could hurt them was done before having said weaponry but I also read that it was made so they couldnt hurt viltrumites or that they could just avoid it and thus why it wouldnt work. I didnt read the cómics so I have no idea, the thing is that I saw many people check the maths and say both the logic and equations (and thus the results) are wrong so in no were Omniman can scale that high. Thus makes sense since I dont get how they took those measurements and it is not explained exactly how they get to that conclusion wich is a problem because even if they are right it is not shown well to the public why it is the case.
I would also like to mention some minor stuff, they make an interesting point about viltrumites having a lot of stamina, what they dont mention is that they have a huge weakness: they lack adrenaline wich is why Mark has an advantage againts them. And what does the supersaiyan transformation do to the body? Exactly, and while if dont controled can leave to them wasting energy it also refills your energy as shown in Goku vs Freezer and he also didnt have much of an issue stamina wise so i dont think it is a big concern specially since he could end the fight quick both because of his strenght and speed. As for experience i think it is overated, experience is the same as training, just a way to get better but it dosent mean you need it to get better, how many characters show a great deal of skills and knowing how to act and react with little experience? And how many characters with lots of experience cant really do much? Also, how do we exactly know that he actually has more experience. How much time of those 2k years did he actually fight (they not only conquer, they do more things and conquering also requires planning) and from those fights, how many did get him to push his limits or really have to learn further? Meanwhile the saiyans the main thing they do is fight and they are used to have close encounters (also see how quick Vegeta learned to sense power levels) plus their ability to adapt mid combat.
That being said I also think they wanked Bardock too, I think I can accept filler since it is a soft composite of Bardock but my interpretation is that the King Vegeta feat is just simbolic and I dont think they got the distance between Earth and Namek well since the map they used clearly isnt up to scale. Bulma talks about the travel in the saiyan saga aftermath, I dont get why they didnt take data from there and from what I remember it isnt that far.
Good episode overall, there are a few things to improve here and there (tho minor things) and Bardock losing leaves a weird taste considering we know it is not right. But solid overall.
As for the dragon ball bias thing, i dont think it is a thing, its just them ignoring context while researching. And while its definetly an issue they should improve upon (sometimes they get things wrong) there are better way to comunicate it that than being toxic about it. And yeah, they also wanked db characters a lot in the past and here too so yeah, thats what i think about it.
PS: its funny how the fandom thought Bardock had strenght and Omniman speed when they did the oposite
You bastard I woke my boyfriend laughing at YES YES HE SAID IT, NO NO NOT THAT MATCH UP
Even Super Bardock is a cocky asshole. He cares about his family but that comes after the fight . When he fights Gas he goes on about how winning is all he wants to do. But he also cares about his family.
Bardock: My son can defeat yours!
Me: Haha, well, I think there is no doubt about that.
Bardock: Am talking about Raditz
Me: Oh... that's another thing.
32:45 yeah ssj doesn't multiply off great ape it's just 50x base, or at least the grade 1 version is. I think the GT scalers claim that golden great ape cannot just be ssj 50x stacked on great ape 10x cause Baby would've stomped Golden great ape Goku if that was the case, and the logic for that is there.
The thing that upset me the most about this episode is they list Full Power Energy Wave as one of Bardock's ki based attacks but then the fight animation has him using Full Power Energy Blast Volley which wasn't listed as one of his ki based attacks. Other than that, I'm not really a fan of this episode, but I don't hate/dislike it either
Woah! Didn't expect a Bill appearance in the beginning of this video! Also, get some sleep, man! 😂
We don’t need invincible vs gohan we need invincible vs great saiyaman
I think it’s pretty clear that a giant laser cannon meant to destroy planets isn’t gonna be able to kill a mobile target. Might have the destructive capacity, but someone would literally have to be able to subdue and tie them up before you can take a shot at them.
Dude this really stretching lmao y'all are grasping for straws at this point the man said there weapons could not harm them pay attention not because they could just Dodge it but because they literally can't kill them. One guy even said "even if we rounded up all the vulturmites it's not like we can kill them" another guy responds with "and imprisonment is just out of the question" I can just tell you didn't watch the show at least try and educate yourself. Like this comment made me so angry maybe because it sounded so Smart ass like dude obviously they thought about subduing them first before saying are weapons can't harm them. Please actually educate yourself before trying to be a smart ass because now you look like a idiot
Too bad DB doesn't care about logic or what is consistent let alone anti feats like needing Space Racer's gun and 3 whole other viltrumites one of wich is way stronger than Omniman to BARELLY destroy a planet
Did they ever say how big the planet was that Omni man and 2 other viltrumites destroyed because Omni would be 1/3 of that
@@Shyguy-3300 no, DB just arbitrarily decided it was 14 times the size of earth
@@Shyguy-3300 also Omniman isn't 1/3 of that because most of the actual feat is due to Space Racer shooting the planet with his gun beforehand, they literally say that they couldn't destroy it if he didn't shoot it
Omni-Man looks like an action figure
Death Battle has managed the impossible and brought together both haters and superfans, and it's so they can all say that Death Battle got this one wrong
9:03
Nolan was actually going to fly around the world then hit Bardock in the storyboards, but that got cut in the animation.
Yeah I saw that. Also a shame the whole headbutting clash, Bardock breaking Nolan’s leg, and Nolan snapping Bardock’s wrist didn’t make it to the final
That's something I can see him doing leveraging his speed as extra power
I honestly didn't even realize the cut away gags were gone. And tbh for the direction where the show is going right where they're going have to reserve most of their budget on the important parts of the episode, I think its best they stop doing them entirely going forward.
19:04 I took omniman referring to bardock as a saiyan as a sign of respect since earlier in the fight he said "whatever you are your an embarrassment" and seeing bardocks true power no made nolan respect him enough to use the races name instead of degrading him by calling him another insult. Also Nolan saying "fuck" i took as a realization that bardock was in fact not an embarrassment
JONKLER VS DIGIORNO!!! 🎉🎉🎉
Why would I skip the adds? Theyre actually amusing and i actually enjoy some of the drinks... though i do feel a bit concerned with the possibility that you don't have a choice in advertising something you don't like...
Me out here not going to skip the Gfuel ad just to prove the prediction wrong.
Vegeta's tail didn't shrink when it was cut off from what i remember
It didn't immediately but I don't recall it still being there later
This may be a bit random
But I feel like the names “bred for conquer” or “bred for battle” would be more suitable names for the fight track
I love the instant dread of the Joker vs Giorno. I’m right along side ya bud
Good Death Battle I really enjoyed it!
I'm rambling so bear with me.
One thing about the "debunking" is that I wish people would focus more on the Solar Disk calc itself instead of trying to hand wave it as just being an outlier.
Because DBZ characters are not going to like that standard lmao
In Dragon Ball Super Goku, Krillin and even Goku Black were harmed by bullets.
It just wouldn't be fair to treat Nolan one way and ignore it for Dragon Ball.
And honestly they stacked the shit out of Bardock for this episode. Giving him everything across multiple continuities (even if it was impossible for him to have both) and the most generous scaling.
And the black boxes brought it up but they could've given Nolan scaling from Universa which would've put his speed way above Base Bardock and Oozaru.
(tldr Mark was able to catch her by surprise and even disarm her so reasonably Nolan would be able to as well)
Death Battle analysis is interesting and sometimes frustrating because 9/10 times I agree with the conclusion but not how they got there.
I feel like if they spent just a little more time properly explaining their calculations it would make a huge difference.
Like Ben 10 vs Green Lantern's backlash was purely because they poorly explained their reasoning, not the result itself.
Ok i still think the sun disk was a shite think to include and I hope they never include it again it’s research was arse
Theme getting hurt by bullets could be for gag that anime do sometimes
@@quintonbrooks7536 Yeah for sure. Tho all three I mentioned in Super were pretty serious. Krillin is bleeding after taking a bullet for one of his officers.
The point being that characters will always have things that contradict previous feats and that its not fair to disregard the Sun Disk because of later cases of them struggling.
Because Dragon Ball characters have been harmed by far weaker things consistently.
@@rolfy675 Dragon ball characters have an excuse, it happens because dragon ball characters have their stats amped by KI, they need to be using Ki for it to apply to them, Super Sayan Goku back in the Boo ark taking a rock to the head and getting hurt is not an outler he was relaxed, when the Z fighters are not ready for fighting and not using Ki they have lower stats.
Viltrumites don't get less durable when they aren't fighting
Also there is no reason to "debunk" the Sun Disc scaling as it doesn't apply to Omniman at all, he was never hit by it, no Viltrumites were EVER hit by it, they don't scale to it at all, in fact, end of the sceries Mark was fighting a guy in the surface of the Sun and he died because of it, he was a Viltrumite HUNDREDS of times stronger than Omniman.
Omniman is moon level, most of his feats are actually around continent level, if you REALLY wank him you can get to planetery, even though they LITERALLY say they wouldn't be able to destroy the Viltrumite's planet without Space Racer shooting the core with his gun and destabilizin the core, AND that if the 3 of them didn't hit it at the same time and on the perfect angle at the right speed they would have DIED on impact.
You can't even say Nolan did most of the work there because Mark was already stronger than him at that point, he took down another Viltrumite that had previously shit all over Omniman in a fight, like, it wasn't even close, he got beatup and bullied in it, then comes Mark and beats the guy up no problem.
TldR, there is no need to debunk the Sun Disc because it doesn't apply to anyone in the verse really, nobody was ever hit by that thing, people who use it are the morons that took the fact that Viltrumites destroyed it and scaled those Viltrumites attack power to the gun's durability and they just decided to scale the gun's durability to it's destructive capacity, wich is just wrong, it's not even close.
Cool review
I pretty much agree with all your critiques, except I really like the sound design during the SSJ sequence, the muted hits I personally thought fit really nicely with the setting. Also, it mirrored the fight with Gas in a cool way, where during that fight, Bardock uses speed/skill to tap Gas throughout the fight, but gets overpowered every time Gas lands a hit, until he slowly grows in power until he's able to overpower him in their last clash, so having a similar buildup, but instead of coming out on top, it gives Omniman the opening to land the killing worked really well for me. Anyway, great review as usual, really solid episode overall, not perfect, but a great start to the new era of Death Battle. Also, as an aside, does anyone else feel like this was some of DevilArtimis's best hand to hand choreography?
I am going to say it. I prefer Omnilamder. Weird how I haven’t seen that sentiment often.
Everyone laughed when he said fuck
I was at the premiere, so personal experiences make me like the episode more.
The story board is soooo goood!
I interpreted Nolan’s last words as him realizing there’s more of these fuckers out there and they’re gonna come. It’s like he’s saying “fuck, there’s more of these little shits isn’t there?”
The death battle was good just the scaling is the only issue I had with it but that's DB scaling for you
That animated bit was awesome, but it also felt relatable to me on too many levels and I don't know how to feel about that.
Not to be the guy, but I see the lack of cut-aqays as an absolute win.
Only so much slap-stick or "lol, Bommstick feat" I can take.
Valid, honestly
12:33 Thank you for your take on the moon, I thought it was weird seeing it in front of the clouds lmao
I loved the part where omni-man said: I'm the Invincible.
I'd like to say even though they got the result wrong, they got everything else right, the characterization, the music, and the analyses were great. It genuinely felt like a sequel to Omni Man vs Homelander
Think it’s important to remember that they aren’t “wrong”. By their own logic and what they find credible. Unless it’s something like super sonic can breath underwater like back in the day, we all have to remember stuff like this is entirely subjective
I would dare say the characterization is off too, bardock has no control of his great ape and despite being Z bardock displays pride in his sons.
@@jagtech490He does control the great ape a little in Super.
@Solverse_ No, their scaling is _objectively_ wrong, though. Like, they use two directly contradictory feats to get Omni man's strength that high
@@Satsaru Contradictory how?
Again, don't care for conclusion or calcs, BUT Brandon Yates and DevilArtemis cooked up so hard and it's got me excited for death battles future. Also, the production value for these videos is getting even better somehow.
I think it's DevilArtemis, mb if it isn't a solo project again
Yup, just get someone else to do the research or even outsource it and it'll be perfect.
The main reason people are upset is because they extreme high baller Nolan and kinda whiffed bardock a bit for this fight.
Nolan didn’t destroy the planet on his own. It took him and 2 others I.E his son and that other guy ( just woke up so forgot his name ).
And they needed a special condition to blow the planet up as well cause if it was stable they would instantly die on impact. Even with them destroying the planet it wasn’t done solo, so at best a third of that str cal should go to Nolan.
Btw, Bardock doesn’t just get SSJ in that animation you saw he reached SSJ3 as well if you went a bit further. If they was going to go with the uncannon and give him SSJ might as well go all the way and give him the SSJ3 feat as well.
Nolan destroying the planet was not relevant, as Bardock surpass that feat.
And Bardock very clearly did not turn SSJ3. Nor do they include it. So I have no idea where you got that from.
@@danm2068 they said that Nolan out powers Bardock in Str due to that planet burst feat.
Yes, Bardock went SSJ3 in Super Heroes.
That why I stated they should’ve given him SSJ3 cause it’s a form he had gained in anime.
@@DipperTheJackalope *No they didn't.* Replay it; Nolan overpowered Bardock with the *Sun Disk feat.* NOT the planet bust feat.
Yeah in HEROES. Which is not canon. This is canon/Toei Bardock, not Bardock from heroes.They were already hesitant of giving Bardock Super Saiyan form. SSJ3 would've pushing it.
Omni Man looks like a Ken doll, and it's distracting at times, yet funny
This is solely my interpretation because it’s funny, I like to think Bardock’s line about his son kicking Mark’s ass is just supposed to be because Goku at this point is a baby and one of his lines was just “Power Level of 2… pathetic”. Maybe not the intention but it’s funny.
EDIT: I gotta pay more attention.
Tbh nice review and battle but my only problem is the conclusion to make it short and simple how can Omni man be as strong as dwarf star lvl attack when he struggles later on in the series from when the sun disk was introduced with drestroying 1 planet doesn’t make any sense
The Sun Disc calculation doesn't apply to him because 1 he was never hit by it and 2 they scale Viltrumites to it because a Viltrumite destroyed the machine, wich the gun's durability doesn't match the atack power it has.
But it's classic Death Battle, their scaling sucks and it always will suck.
Omniman is consistently moon level, most of his feats are actually around continental, he doesn't get to planetary without wank and he certainly is not even close to star level, neither in durability or power
I feel like the result of this fight shouldve been a simple "raw power alone wont win fights"
Well it's a typical death battle episode. It's hace to popular characters, stats that are out of context, good fight to great fight this time, and a outcome that is soooooooooooo wrong. Death battle has truly never left.
As a person who kinda disagrees with the verdict (I am more so in the camp of Bardock taking the win), but I will admit the matchup is admittedly pretty debatable, and the logic and explanation Death battle provided was pretty good.
Honestly, good episode. It was a nice review, glad to see death battle is back.
I know it's not perfect, but I loved the episode. Animation was fire, especially the stuff around the blue star, I really liked the interactions for an episode with two guys I didn't know too well, and the editing was really cool in the analysis. Actually, I just really liked the analysis; people are calling their research lazy because they disagree with the conclusions, but I actually find it impressive how they found and calc'd these two obscure feats for each character that completely flipped the fight dynamic around.
I know a lot of people are calling the scaling on this match-up iffy, but if I may share my opinion, I personally buy the verdict. Or at the very least, I don't believe the reasons people give _not_ to buy it. Outside circumstance means the planet feat doesn't really work as the anti-feat people are using it as (although the same circumstance means it doesn't work as a regular feat either for Omniman...like the planet takes a hit from a star-buster & the Viltrumites; at that point that's only a feat for the planet) and supporting evidence for the sun disk feat lends it more credibility. So overall the episode is fine to me.
(Do definitely wish they'd talked about Conquest and how he more directly scaled to the sun disk ship though. Feels like they would've avoided a lot of dissatisfaction with the episode if they had vocalized more evidence for that feat than just a vague statement.)
Outside of the result and them ignoring some... important, to say the least, things in nolan's analysis and the end explanation that would change the result, i do think the episode is pretty good. Nolan was very in character and super saiyan and especially oozaru, both of which never really got their proper time to shine in death battle, are great.
So how muchdid the extra material of Dragon Ball being used? Like Bardock is far stronger in something like Super Heroes and Xenoverse than he is in any animated material. Like dude fights Gogeta SSJ4 one on One in some of those, then also achieves the three numbered forms of the Regular Super Saiyan all at once in Xenoverse.
That is without mentioning the outrageous power that version also has in base, fighting against Super Saiyans, etc.
Its weird that Optimus Prime is merged into this weird version for the Gundam battle, but for Bardock it''s mostly just the bits from Minus/Super, and the two specials.
The Minus/Super stuff not really given him any extra scaling, just character motivation.
Would've been way better to have omni-man fly at full speed through the moon back at bardock and their clash destroys the planet before bardock fully powers down to base.
Never understood why people say this is flat out wrong when this is supposed to be subjective. Aka not having a definitive conclusion.
28:10 exactly people where saying this battle is so close yet now there saying base Bardock win
People probably scaling it differently but most people think the fight would be close
Because most people didn't factor in ssj, the second that was brought up almost everypne agreed on a Bardock sweep
Nobody was saying this fight would be close lol.
Most prédiction vidéos had omniman outlasting Bardock as a wincon bruh@@thelettucebarrel7784
@@massoik4411tbh i only Seen 2 vidéo that had Bardock swept
I try to keep up with your other stuff, but you were the first DB Reviewer/Discusser I watched, so I really feel like DB is back now
i loved the way this fight looked the whole way through. DevilArtemis cooked. Makes me excited for what Kratos vs Asura's gonna look like