This was what we call "the good stuff" when you have to break out the big guns to find something this cool. I could listen to lectures all day but to ride along with you through the real time frustrations all the way to proof was friggin amazing.
As a general rule,my dad would always ask what was the last part or parts to be replaced on the vehicle before it acted up. He would then ask if the vehicle part was OEM or after market. I remember having issues with a starter that kept going bad,or so I thought. It was the aftermarket starters being the problem. My dad always told me,if you have a new problem after replacing a part,or repeat problems,then 9 times out of 10 it will be the part you replaced,or something you did when you replaced it. I found out the starters I was using were the wrong ones,the store was continually giving me the wrong starter. Even though they worked,they were wrong for that car and would fail. I replaced it with an OEM one from a salvage yard and,no more issues.
RC Hobbyist Extreme agreed I wouldn’t say 9/10 times now though back In our dads times yes but now the vehicles have so many sensors wires and solonoids i would say your rule is more like 7/10 now and the other 30% it’s one of the issues I mentioned. Your dad sounds like a smart guy.
I have seen something kind of similar on a 92 BMW 325i. I purchased the car cheap a long time ago. It Would randomly stall, battery light illuminated intermittently and all kinds of weird stuff. Found the problem by mistake, was looking under the hood at night for some odd reason and I saw sparks randomly jump from one of the coils, it had a hair line crack. Changed the coil and all problems went away. Awesome catch Ivan. My first thoughts were ac ripple. Sounds like something that a bad alternater would do.
Fantastic, this really demonstrates the real cost of junk aftermarket parts. More than a days Labour and this could have easily blown the ECU. It may well have damaged the driver as a possible future failure. On my own cars I fit junk yard OEM coils and always keep a spare one in the trunk.
Guessed it correctly off the bat... only because I had the same issue on my partners Vauxhall Astra. The reason you couldn't recreate the stall on the second day is (I'm guessing) because the engine was cold so the system was in open loop mode. I'm no auto electrician, so the only way I diagnosed it was to swap cars for a few months and keep driving it (as she wasn't comfortable driving it)... in the end the coil totally broke down to the point it was only running on 3 cylinders, clearly it was then obvious. Differences were it was setting a load of random codes and the car wouldn't restart for about 20 seconds after the stall (no crank). I put this down to either a safety system or the immobiliser system rebooting. Would stall on anything close to a snap throttle movement even at low rpm. Great channel... subbed!
Absolutely amazing diagnosis very cool, My hats off to you . That was an incredible find A bad coil Definitely shows the importance of OEM parts when available
The brand X replacement parts out there is an easy rabbit hole. Years back I bought cheap parts for my Ford Ranger just because they had extreme high mileage, had a bad fuel sender and replaced the whole assy. Fuel pump and all. The new "brand X" pump lasted 28 days and the original I reinstalled and its still working after 48,000 miles and 2 1/2 years. The original pump comes from New the same vehicle purchased new in 1997. OEM parts may note always be available but with Electrical and high level of safety and reliability try for the best .
I didn't know I could just go back into the Pico and get my settings I have been resetting them up when I go back in. That's gonna save a lot of time. Glad the truck is fixed and I agree oem coils only are the way to go.
on dodge truck that stalls, part 2 I don't know if this would work, use a infrared thermometer , go from coil to coil, to check temperature differences to find the bad one.
that was a great video again!!!! the negative voltage was the best clue i guess...i .have heard about some "racing" spark plugs can cause a negative voltage....the work great on carb gas engines but mess with computers........great scope testing!!!!....thanks
Nice work Ivan! The new aftermarket coil did look better but as you know it still had some high spikes on the reference. One has to wonder what an OEM coil would like. It appears that the old and new aftermarket coil were radiating a lot of energy outward in space where the 5V reference and probably other control wires were picking up this energy through inductance. It would be like a small signal voltage control circuit is getting a voltage impressed on it from an alternating high voltage. Sounds like it's doing okay now! As a tip for the sample rate when looking at the primary voltage on ignition coils, we learned in our Autonerdz discussions, that you want to set the sample rate to have a sample interval of 1uS. This will give you all the detail that you need to analyze the waveforms. You can right click on the screen and you will see the properties window where you can see the sample interval. And one other tip is to use the repeat trigger instead of auto which will help eliminate gaps in the data when the traces get at the end of the screen. Again, nice work Ivan and you too Keith as I'm sure you were in the background somewhere :) Have a good one!!!
Great tips on the Pico, Terry! It was definitely the right tool for this job. I can't believe that such a short-duration voltage spike can cause a PCM to completely shut down. But in this line of work you see something new every day :)
Thanks for showing us the set up. It helps see the whole picture. No way! I don't want to spoil it for other viewers but that was a great find. That PICO is a fantastic tool. After watching you guys for over a year now I see a trend. Either after market parts are involved or a fix is attempted from another shop/owner. And of course parts wear out too.
Awesome job❗️ Thanx Ivan... I'll be Keeping these 2 case study videos in my Jeep/ram repair folder... Since both of my vehicles still have all the original coil packs(2003) ..I now know what to hit first should I experience "noise levels" as bizarre as yours... Cheers from 🇨🇦 Luke
Nice case study Ivan. Staten Island seems to be where your complicated ones are coming from. Nice diagnosis and the Pico shines above the rest for detail at high sample rates. I had to laugh when they brought you that Standard coil & you thought you were getting OEM. I use OEM or Wells kinda partial when it comes to electronic components. Anyways great video & diagnosis & keep them comng!!
I'd have yanked the rest of my hair out on this! An aftermarket coil was the last thing I would've thought was causing all of that. There's no end to the possible modes of failure on these things! Nice work on this one!
2007 Jeep GC 5.7 L. i did a tune up at 75,000 miles. All new coils (Standard Motor Products). The Jeep started shutting down intermittently without warning, Multiple erroneous codes and dash lights. I found that the secondary resistance on the coils varied from 5 to 13K Ohms but didn't know what to make of it. I called Standard MP and they gave me no help on the varied resistances. I couldn't figure out what was going on as I had't bought my Picoscope yet. I was lucky enough to find Keith who called the coils as the problem, No more aftermarket coils for me. I swapped them out with Mopar coils and the problem was fixed. Three weeks of trying to figure out the problem taught me how to read wiring diagrams, back probe and measure 5V reference signals, ground, and signal wires. I bought a 2035A Picoscope after it was fixed and recorded known goods on my coils, cps, ckp, and relative compression. Your videos are very helpful in how to capture wave forms and how to approach a diagnostic evaluation.
I work on a lot of the ancient bosch Djet Systems. No scanner ports on those but one of the rules when looking for a fault is to ensure all parts are bosch.. your dodgy coil is the sort of thing which traps a lot of people who get into a position where the normal things don't seem to fit. Those AM parts need to be inserted into the orifice of the importers.
If fuel pressure and spark present and no DTC - THEN coil [pack] /ht lead/ plug 'swap-out' is obvious procedure BEFORE a lengthy electronic diagnosis ! Good time/motion sense, in my opinion. 1 coil + 1 spark-plug + 1 long ht-lead = should be carried in any vehicles kit !
I still havnt watched the whole first video or this on but when I saw the noise of the 5 volt reference in my head I said that almost looks like a coil/injector event causing that with how evenly spaced it was
crazy good job man i really like your procedures while im watching most of the next step you take are exactly what i was thinking ... but few times i also had no where to go an was stumped on next step.
As mentioned, you never closed the book on that 5 volt anomaly. There still seems to be an issue there because you stated the signal should drop with key off and out of ignition.
W/o a good scope, and knowing what you're looking at, that would be multiple parts cannon shots! I admit to really thinking in vid 1 that the crank sensor would be causing the noise on the 5v ref signal, as I've seen a lot of Chryslers fail that way, but also briefly, thought about secondary ignition. I was close. It turned out to be primary ignition. Again, w/o a scope, you've got Russian roulette of 8 choices. Nicely done!
My guess is that the capacitance of the probes was suppressing the transient enough so the engine processor stayed ok. When the transient became large enough the execution pointer in the processor can get out of sink and the computer start executing random code. This is known technically by electrical engineers (I am one) as "the computer going off to bo-bo land". The computer usually get stuck in an endless loop and will not shut down unless power is removed or there is a "hard" reset. This is probably why the 5V ref would not go away.
One plug not firing, coil charges but doesn"t discharge through plug so makes large reverse current surge. Over time that could fry the coil pack. Less likel;y the coil pack has a low grade internal short to ground, arced when it wasn't able to dump enough current though the plug. PULL THE #4 PLUG and replace that "new" aftermarket coil with OEM.
I’ve been seeing this A LOT lately on dodge trucks and cars with v8 engines. Had one with crappy spark plugs causing the issue. I always see it spike under ground on the primary ignition. The firing line is almost as far under as it is over. Haven’t ran across this with any other vehicle.
for me it was always gunna be 50:50 alternator or coil. it was the epic noise on the scope in the first video. but alternator was ruled out pretty quickly.
Thx for doing this. Really enjoy watching your videos, although your camera work sometimes make me a tad seasick. Gotta ask; was your pick up line when you first met your wife; do you wanna come home with me and see my OBD-11 diagnostic skills? ☺
I have experienced this time and time again in these years Dodges, and it turned out the cowl leaks water onto the top of the engine drowning the coil. Chasing it was a pain thinking crank, cam and so on sensors only to find the spark plug drowning and the coil cooking hot.
Would it have been wise to pull that spark plug and see how worn it was and/or how huge the gap is? I mean, a coil going bad happens, but a second bad coil, especially since it doesn't look that old... Then again with aftermarket garbage parts who knows lol. I just think if it's overdue for a tune up/plug change perhaps that would be an inexpensive thing to do to prevent future coil failures and possible PCM damage.
Damn fine job again Ivan!!! what a aftermarket cluster bomb! Will a Vantage pro ultra get anywhere close to this. The Pico is definitely the Cadillac here. Great info and clarity on setup. My shop uses aftermarket junk. This shows how to find a after junk come back. Thanks for bringing us along!
Nailed it. What a star! Like walking through a diagnostic jungle trying to find your way out, and you found it. There's some questions still. Why the C1 noise, but no other apparent noise on others? How was it shutting down the works? But sometimes you gotta live with the mysteries. Best sec ig diag I've seen since they invented fire:-)
"Diagnostic jungle"...yes sometimes that's what it feels like! It's the bizarre ones that are the most memorable lessons. As far as unanswered questions...well if we fixed the problem, then everything else must be suspected "good".
What's up Ivan! I saw both videos part 1 & 2. Wow a coil and the shop got you a cheap ass coil. Some shop don't understand that quality work will give you less or no come backs at all. Good video bro!
Hey Frank! Yeah I was disappointed in installing the cheap-ass coil too, especially since I requested an OEM coil! Oh well. It was great to meet you in person the other day and hang out. Subbing to your channel! :)
Very interesting indeed. I'm still trying to process this one. It was really cool to be an insider on one of your "top three" challenges! As always, I've learned some things along the way. Thanks! BTW, really like the new logo and channel name.
Thanks, John! Always glad to share and hear what you think of the weird and wonderful case studies. Yeah I figured why not call the channel what it really is :)
I thought the old school rev limiters basically interrupted voltage until the revs came back down. Wouldn’t that be the “noise” you see when it hits the rev limiter? Also, the owner said it shut off at higher RPMs while driving. Most of these cars have rev limiters when not under load to prevent stupid damage, cause the 4.7 in my Jeep surely revved past 4K while driving.
If you like that version of Pico scope, you should definitely try the new Pico Scope version optimized for touch screen. As a Microsoft MVP I helped them to develop a Win 10 touch optimized version. It is already available for 2000 series scopes, which I myself have. 6.12.7 is the latest stable for 2000 series with touch enhancements. Do not know if those are available for automotive version already.
That why you need to.change alk coils togheter with even only one gone bad , the same rule aplly to spark plug brakes brake rotor, spark plug wires and so on.
maybe 5 volt refrence after shut down is normal until key off because the computer doesnt know the engine died, as it is an anomolous event. u should check another dodge abt same year and see if when u pull some coil wires loose. and it dies, does the 5 volts stay.
In Europe we have the Opel / Vauxhall with engines Z18XE, bad aftermarket spark coils are doing the same. Hundreds and hundreds of complains on line, "my engine shuts off". Yeah right, put an OEM product, dude.
Nice job Ivan. At first I thought Alternator because of the high rpm. Alternators going bad will produce more noise and cause lots of issues. Then I saw your ripple, darn! lol. Good find on the coil. In fact I have a case study on a bus with a similar issue. I will have to get that up to show. Still working on my HD presentation. Part 3 will be up soon, hope to include it in that part.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics From my experience Ivan yes the diodes going bad can cause excessive spikes. Also if you get bearing wear on Alternators with slip rings it creates a bigger gap between the rings and the rotor shaft and that can cause arcing and spikes. The alternators I work on are mainly brushless and on those the bearings start to go and the rotor and stator start to rub, which can cause spikes and arcing inside the unit. I have also seen stator windings short that cause excessive spikes as well. What I recommend for Alternator captures Ivan is take a bunch of known goods that way you know how much noise is acceptable. On our Alternators once I notice noise in excess of 40 volts peak to peak we replace the alternator. Had a bus once with a low power complaint and the alternator had noise spikes of 40 volts peak to peak. Replaced the alternator and it fixed the problem.
wow 40V p-p on a 12-volt system!? That's crazy! I've never seen a brushless alternator before. Will have to do a little research to see how those work... ua-cam.com/video/jGdCqSxtTfo/v-deo.html that was pretty informative!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics On that system with the 40 Volt peak to peak spikes it was on a 24 Volt Alternator Ivan. Sorry about not clarifying that. Still nuts though. That bus had no trouble codes by the way.
Educating the consumer the importance of OEM is more important now than ever before. For those chains who sell non OEM and the mechanics who use it, shame on you.
You r one bad mother(cool runnings). I guess a visual would have paid off in this case, that is a good lesson for us too, thanks for all that info, it's good to know.
Not a chance that a visual inspection would have gone anywhere. I mean you don't automatically assume that every aftermarket coil is bad, right? In this case it's either a scope or parts cannon lol
Nice Find ! Ivan, when you first said you were using a 20: 1 attenuator and I saw that it was a Pico attenuator, I was like where did you get that ? I know you just got your Pico recently and they only sell the 10: 1 attenuator now. In most cases that is all that is needed since they upgraded the newer models 4225 and 4425 automotive series scopes with higher input voltage protections. Over Voltage protection is ±250 V (DC + AC peak) on single input where as the older models I believe were limited to 100 volts. Anyway you caught yourself but hey, maybe the info will be useful to somebody ? LOL !
The quality parts manufacturers couldn't compete with the cheaper lines. The parts stores all wanted the lowest prices. I liked C.E. Niehoff ignition parts but they sold that line off to BWD. NAPA's Echlin line used to be good. Standard used to have a higher quality Blue Streak line that was a little better.
I'm glad we nailed it! LOL. That was strange, most shops would have started replacing pounds of parts without a clue. Great video
With You, Scanner, SMA, and Guru Keith, who needs a mechanic!
I seriously enjoy watching your de facto analytical team.
This was what we call "the good stuff" when you have to break out the big guns to find something this cool. I could listen to lectures all day but to ride along with you through the real time frustrations all the way to proof was friggin amazing.
As a general rule,my dad would always ask what was the last part or parts to be replaced on the vehicle before it acted up. He would then ask if the vehicle part was OEM or after market. I remember having issues with a starter that kept going bad,or so I thought. It was the aftermarket starters being the problem. My dad always told me,if you have a new problem after replacing a part,or repeat problems,then 9 times out of 10 it will be the part you replaced,or something you did when you replaced it. I found out the starters I was using were the wrong ones,the store was continually giving me the wrong starter. Even though they worked,they were wrong for that car and would fail. I replaced it with an OEM one from a salvage yard and,no more issues.
RC Hobbyist Extreme agreed I wouldn’t say 9/10 times now though back In our dads times yes but now the vehicles have so many sensors wires and solonoids i would say your rule is more like 7/10 now and the other 30% it’s one of the issues I mentioned. Your dad sounds like a smart guy.
True.
Your dad is a wise man :)
Excellent job, Ivan. Better than watching a thriller on TV.
I have seen something kind of similar on a 92 BMW 325i. I purchased the car cheap a long time ago. It Would randomly stall, battery light illuminated intermittently and all kinds of weird stuff. Found the problem by mistake, was looking under the hood at night for some odd reason and I saw sparks randomly jump from one of the coils, it had a hair line crack. Changed the coil and all problems went away.
Awesome catch Ivan. My first thoughts were ac ripple. Sounds like something that a bad alternater would do.
Nice! Yes, loose high voltage in the wrong places can certainly cause some weird problems!
I have a 2004 with the 5.7 doing the same thing -stalling while driving down the highway. Thank you sir for the info!
Fantastic, this really demonstrates the real cost of junk aftermarket parts. More than a days Labour and this could have easily blown the ECU. It may well have damaged the driver as a possible future failure.
On my own cars I fit junk yard OEM coils and always keep a spare one in the trunk.
Excellent troubleshooting! Not many can think it through like you.
Ivan, thanks for all what u show in those videos of urs which are full off lot info that we can learn. waiting for the next one cheeers.
Guessed it correctly off the bat... only because I had the same issue on my partners Vauxhall Astra.
The reason you couldn't recreate the stall on the second day is (I'm guessing) because the engine was cold so the system was in open loop mode.
I'm no auto electrician, so the only way I diagnosed it was to swap cars for a few months and keep driving it (as she wasn't comfortable driving it)... in the end the coil totally broke down to the point it was only running on 3 cylinders, clearly it was then obvious.
Differences were it was setting a load of random codes and the car wouldn't restart for about 20 seconds after the stall (no crank). I put this down to either a safety system or the immobiliser system rebooting. Would stall on anything close to a snap throttle movement even at low rpm.
Great channel... subbed!
Absolutely amazing diagnosis very cool, My hats off to you . That was an incredible find A bad coil Definitely shows the importance of OEM parts when available
That was insane! Keith and Eric both topped! Kudos my friend. Great video.
The brand X replacement parts out there is an easy rabbit hole. Years back I bought cheap parts for my Ford Ranger just because they had extreme high mileage, had a bad fuel sender and replaced the whole assy. Fuel pump and all. The new "brand X" pump lasted 28 days and the original I reinstalled and its still working after 48,000 miles and 2 1/2 years. The original pump comes from New the same vehicle purchased new in 1997. OEM parts may note always be available but with Electrical and high level of safety and reliability try for the best .
Respect bro respect.
Am speechless
Great video
Diagnostic level = Master Black belt
:)
I am flattered, but I am only an apprentice :)
Apprentice to the grand master no less!!!
your no apprentice .. your top dog
I actually stood up and clapped.
I didn't know I could just go back into the Pico and get my settings I have been resetting them up when I go back in. That's gonna save a lot of time. Glad the truck is fixed and I agree oem coils only are the way to go.
I will not be using any aftermarket ignition parts in my vehicle's anytime soon! Thanks for the lesson Ivan !!!!
You, ScannerDanner and Eric O. are the holy trinity of UA-cam automotive diagnostics. Shit's gonna get real once Keith starts posting videos.
Dont forget about diagnostic Dan
Really good diagnoses, it takes time to find faults like that and l know this with previous faults on cars during the years on vechicles.
on dodge truck that stalls, part 2 I don't know if this would work, use a infrared thermometer , go from coil to coil, to check temperature differences to find the bad one.
that was a great video again!!!! the negative voltage was the best clue i guess...i .have heard about some "racing" spark plugs can cause a negative voltage....the work great on carb gas engines but mess with computers........great scope testing!!!!....thanks
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Hey, Ivan, I'm glad you changed the name of your channel.
Also, thank you for your videos I like seeing the weird case studies like this one.
Nice work Ivan! The new aftermarket coil did look better but as you know it still had some high spikes on the reference. One has to wonder what an OEM coil would like. It appears that the old and new aftermarket coil were radiating a lot of energy outward in space where the 5V reference and probably other control wires were picking up this energy through inductance. It would be like a small signal voltage control circuit is getting a voltage impressed on it from an alternating high voltage. Sounds like it's doing okay now! As a tip for the sample rate when looking at the primary voltage on ignition coils, we learned in our Autonerdz discussions, that you want to set the sample rate to have a sample interval of 1uS. This will give you all the detail that you need to analyze the waveforms. You can right click on the screen and you will see the properties window where you can see the sample interval. And one other tip is to use the repeat trigger instead of auto which will help eliminate gaps in the data when the traces get at the end of the screen. Again, nice work Ivan and you too Keith as I'm sure you were in the background somewhere :) Have a good one!!!
Great tips on the Pico, Terry! It was definitely the right tool for this job. I can't believe that such a short-duration voltage spike can cause a PCM to completely shut down. But in this line of work you see something new every day :)
Ivan- I think the channel name change is great! The new logo is sharp, too. It's really more "professional" now.
Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks for showing us the set up. It helps see the whole picture. No way! I don't want to spoil it for other viewers but that was a great find. That PICO is a fantastic tool. After watching you guys for over a year now I see a trend. Either after market parts are involved or a fix is attempted from another shop/owner. And of course parts wear out too.
Thanks Wyatt! And don't forget about those pesky wiring problems where no parts are required for the fix :)
Ah yes, we've seen plenty of those too.
Ok... You are officially the new Keith!! Great work!
Awesome job❗️
Thanx Ivan...
I'll be Keeping these 2 case study videos in my Jeep/ram repair folder...
Since both of my vehicles still have all the original coil packs(2003) ..I now know what to hit first should I experience "noise levels" as bizarre as yours...
Cheers from 🇨🇦
Luke
Nice case study Ivan. Staten Island seems to be where your complicated ones are coming from. Nice diagnosis and the Pico shines above the rest for detail at high sample rates. I had to laugh when they brought you that Standard coil & you thought you were getting OEM. I use OEM or Wells kinda partial when it comes to electronic components. Anyways great video & diagnosis & keep them comng!!
I love this case study!
Way to stick with it. Feels good when you finally win.
Great job! Way to stick with it!
I like it that you renamed your channel! It will make it easier to tell others how to find you.
I'd have yanked the rest of my hair out on this! An aftermarket coil was the last thing I would've thought was causing all of that. There's no end to the possible modes of failure on these things!
Nice work on this one!
That was a tough one for sure! I was curious to see what one of spark plugs looked like!
motoyam82 is now PHAD :)
Wow!!! Nice job!! With no codes imagine if this went to the dealership the "Part's Cannon" would have been on overtime
2007 Jeep GC 5.7 L. i did a tune up at 75,000 miles. All new coils (Standard Motor Products). The Jeep started shutting down intermittently without warning, Multiple erroneous codes and dash lights. I found that the secondary resistance on the coils varied from 5 to 13K Ohms but didn't know what to make of it. I called Standard MP and they gave me no help on the varied resistances. I couldn't figure out what was going on as I had't bought my Picoscope yet. I was lucky enough to find Keith who called the coils as the problem, No more aftermarket coils for me. I swapped them out with Mopar coils and the problem was fixed. Three weeks of trying to figure out the problem taught me how to read wiring diagrams, back probe and measure 5V reference signals, ground, and signal wires. I bought a 2035A Picoscope after it was fixed and recorded known goods on my coils, cps, ckp, and relative compression. Your videos are very helpful in how to capture wave forms and how to approach a diagnostic evaluation.
Well that's a simple case of cause and effect...built-in problem! For electronic components it's OEM or bust. I learned that the hard way too lol
I work on a lot of the ancient bosch Djet Systems. No scanner ports on those but one of the rules when looking for a fault is to ensure all parts are bosch.. your dodgy coil is the sort of thing which traps a lot of people who get into a position where the normal things don't seem to fit. Those AM parts need to be inserted into the orifice of the importers.
If fuel pressure and spark present and no DTC - THEN coil [pack] /ht lead/ plug 'swap-out' is obvious procedure BEFORE a lengthy electronic diagnosis ! Good time/motion sense, in my opinion. 1 coil + 1 spark-plug + 1 long ht-lead = should be carried in any vehicles kit !
I still havnt watched the whole first video or this on but when I saw the noise of the 5 volt reference in my head I said that almost looks like a coil/injector event causing that with how evenly spaced it was
crazy good job man i really like your procedures while im watching most of the next step you take are exactly what i was thinking ... but few times i also had no where to go an was stumped on next step.
great diagnosis dr. ivan
That was a doozy Ivan I enjoyed it ,just shows you about after market stuff , you done well
Pine Hollow Auto CSI.....very cool stuff!! You are a patient man......
I've used *Standard Motor T-Series* products for many years on my Buick- with great success so far. They are a high quality brand IMO.
As mentioned, you never closed the book on that 5 volt anomaly. There still seems to be an issue there because you stated the signal should drop with key off and out of ignition.
That is awesome work my friend. I do wish I lived closer to you because I would bring all my vehicles to you. Thanks for another great video.
W/o a good scope, and knowing what you're looking at, that would be multiple parts cannon shots! I admit to really thinking in vid 1 that the crank sensor would be causing the noise on the 5v ref signal, as I've seen a lot of Chryslers fail that way, but also briefly, thought about secondary ignition. I was close. It turned out to be primary ignition. Again, w/o a scope, you've got Russian roulette of 8 choices. Nicely done!
man, i was waiting for this one for two days,!!! glad to have seen it finally! !! thanks man! !
Excellent!
good job Ivan good know about aftermarket parts on these sensitive engines have a 07 f150 5.4 will be looking out for these masked racoon's
My guess is that the capacitance of the probes was suppressing the transient enough so the engine processor stayed ok. When the transient became large enough the execution pointer in the processor can get out of sink and the computer start executing random code. This is known technically by electrical engineers (I am one) as "the computer going off to bo-bo land". The computer usually get stuck in an endless loop and will not shut down unless power is removed or there is a "hard" reset. This is probably why the 5V ref would not go away.
"bo-bo land"...I'll have to remember that and use that phrase in a diagnostic report somewhere lol
One plug not firing, coil charges but doesn"t discharge through plug so makes large reverse current surge. Over time that could fry the coil pack. Less likel;y the coil pack has a low grade internal short to ground, arced when it wasn't able to dump enough current though the plug. PULL THE #4 PLUG and replace that "new" aftermarket coil with OEM.
You are becoming the Sherlock Holmes of the auto industry!
I’ve been seeing this A LOT lately on dodge trucks and cars with v8 engines. Had one with crappy spark plugs causing the issue. I always see it spike under ground on the primary ignition. The firing line is almost as far under as it is over. Haven’t ran across this with any other vehicle.
Wow bro, Amazing skills!!! Loved this video!!! Thanks for the help!!!
for me it was always gunna be 50:50 alternator or coil. it was the epic noise on the scope in the first video. but alternator was ruled out pretty quickly.
love these long case study's , great video
Killer Diag .. YOU THE MAN
Sweet video, love the series!
nice job Ivan
I wonder if you could add a ferrite core around the wires going to the coil to stop the spikes from feeding back into the PCM...
this is a classic
Thx for doing this. Really enjoy watching your videos, although your camera work sometimes make me a tad seasick. Gotta ask; was your pick up line when you first met your wife; do you wanna come home with me and see my OBD-11 diagnostic skills? ☺
I have experienced this time and time again in these years Dodges, and it turned out the cowl leaks water onto the top of the engine drowning the coil. Chasing it was a pain thinking crank, cam and so on sensors only to find the spark plug drowning and the coil cooking hot.
Excellent work......... Keith likes to give you the easy ones lol I hope he's paying you well 🤑🤑🤑
Would it have been wise to pull that spark plug and see how worn it was and/or how huge the gap is? I mean, a coil going bad happens, but a second bad coil, especially since it doesn't look that old... Then again with aftermarket garbage parts who knows lol. I just think if it's overdue for a tune up/plug change perhaps that would be an inexpensive thing to do to prevent future coil failures and possible PCM damage.
My hat off to you, I am sure you were getting frustrated . I must admit the pico makes the verus look like a beginner toy
Damn fine job again Ivan!!! what a aftermarket cluster bomb! Will a Vantage pro ultra get anywhere close to this. The Pico is definitely the Cadillac here. Great info and clarity on setup. My shop uses aftermarket junk. This shows how to find a after junk come back. Thanks for bringing us along!
Nailed it. What a star! Like walking through a diagnostic jungle trying to find your way out, and you found it. There's some questions still. Why the C1 noise, but no other apparent noise on others? How was it shutting down the works? But sometimes you gotta live with the mysteries. Best sec ig diag I've seen since they invented fire:-)
"Diagnostic jungle"...yes sometimes that's what it feels like! It's the bizarre ones that are the most memorable lessons. As far as unanswered questions...well if we fixed the problem, then everything else must be suspected "good".
so cool ivan
Standard parts 40% defective dorman 95% defective always makes for a fun day!
gary tassi Dorman sure gets a bad rap lol. Ya think them boys and girls are listening?
What's up Ivan! I saw both videos part 1 & 2. Wow a coil and the shop got you a cheap ass coil. Some shop don't understand that quality work will give you less or no come backs at all. Good video bro!
Hey Frank! Yeah I was disappointed in installing the cheap-ass coil too, especially since I requested an OEM coil! Oh well. It was great to meet you in person the other day and hang out. Subbing to your channel! :)
Very interesting indeed. I'm still trying to process this one. It was really cool to be an insider on one of your "top three" challenges! As always, I've learned some things along the way. Thanks! BTW, really like the new logo and channel name.
Thanks, John! Always glad to share and hear what you think of the weird and wonderful case studies. Yeah I figured why not call the channel what it really is :)
would have been interesting to see if the fuel injectors drop out too. not sure if the spark control affects the injectors on this but some do.
I thought the old school rev limiters basically interrupted voltage until the revs came back down. Wouldn’t that be the “noise” you see when it hits the rev limiter? Also, the owner said it shut off at higher RPMs while driving. Most of these cars have rev limiters when not under load to prevent stupid damage, cause the 4.7 in my Jeep surely revved past 4K while driving.
It would be interesting to know why that cylinder 4 ignition coil got replaced the first time.
Good question!
probably nobody changed the spark plugs yet and gap "9 miles" open lol.
Nice work Ivan :)
If you like that version of Pico scope, you should definitely try the new Pico Scope version optimized for touch screen. As a Microsoft MVP I helped them to develop a Win 10 touch optimized version. It is already available for 2000 series scopes, which I myself have. 6.12.7 is the latest stable for 2000 series with touch enhancements. Do not know if those are available for automotive version already.
Thanks for the tip I'll give that a try!
great video Boss..
That was damn impressive. Thanks for taking the time to make this vid
That why you need to.change alk coils togheter with even only one gone bad , the same rule aplly to spark plug brakes brake rotor, spark plug wires and so on.
I like the new logo. Looks sharp.
Looks like I should stop grabbing aftermarket junkyard coils for my 5.4. Motorcraft OE ones are junk and always blow too.
Wow nice work Ivan!
I always believed in the scope. I hope to afford one soon.
Love the logo!
WOW! thats wild.... Just a coil
Did the problem get sorted with the 5volt reference not turning off when it should? This one was awesome!!! Haunted car problems can be scary.
I wonder if that truck has the wrong plugs in it, some super hp aftermarket plugs with to low of resistance,
great video as ever mate, good mov3 on the name change
thank you i will buy oem from now on bmw of mine is having trouble cause of that but we know what it's trouble is bimmer junk
Great work Ivan and thanks for taking us along on this journey. How long till you finish your Staten Island apprenticeship?
hey Rob, the Staten Island apprenticeship is never over haha! If I get bored in PA, I just drive 4 hours east to get some "education" :)
One Auto, Just had him here once again for yet another round of wax on wax off
maybe 5 volt refrence after shut down is normal until key off because the computer doesnt know the engine died, as it is an anomolous event. u should check another dodge abt same year and see if when u pull some coil wires loose. and it dies, does the 5 volts stay.
In Europe we have the Opel / Vauxhall with engines Z18XE, bad aftermarket spark coils are doing the same. Hundreds and hundreds of complains on line, "my engine shuts off". Yeah right, put an OEM product, dude.
Nice job Ivan. At first I thought Alternator because of the high rpm. Alternators going bad will produce more noise and cause lots of issues. Then I saw your ripple, darn! lol. Good find on the coil. In fact I have a case study on a bus with a similar issue. I will have to get that up to show. Still working on my HD presentation. Part 3 will be up soon, hope to include it in that part.
Thanks for the comment, Mike! Is the alternator noise usually caused by diodes going bad?
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics From my experience Ivan yes the diodes going bad can cause excessive spikes. Also if you get bearing wear on Alternators with slip rings it creates a bigger gap between the rings and the rotor shaft and that can cause arcing and spikes. The alternators I work on are mainly brushless and on those the bearings start to go and the rotor and stator start to rub, which can cause spikes and arcing inside the unit. I have also seen stator windings short that cause excessive spikes as well. What I recommend for Alternator captures Ivan is take a bunch of known goods that way you know how much noise is acceptable. On our Alternators once I notice noise in excess of 40 volts peak to peak we replace the alternator. Had a bus once with a low power complaint and the alternator had noise spikes of 40 volts peak to peak. Replaced the alternator and it fixed the problem.
wow 40V p-p on a 12-volt system!? That's crazy! I've never seen a brushless alternator before. Will have to do a little research to see how those work...
ua-cam.com/video/jGdCqSxtTfo/v-deo.html that was pretty informative!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics On that system with the 40 Volt peak to peak spikes it was on a 24 Volt Alternator Ivan. Sorry about not clarifying that. Still nuts though. That bus had no trouble codes by the way.
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Just watched it. Way cool! Thanks for sharing.🙂
Educating the consumer the importance of OEM is more important now than ever before. For those chains who sell non OEM and the mechanics who use it, shame on you.
For electrical components and critical mechanical parts, you are absolutely correct!
Thanks Ivan....
You r one bad mother(cool runnings). I guess a visual would have paid off in this case, that is a good lesson for us too, thanks for all that info, it's good to know.
Not a chance that a visual inspection would have gone anywhere. I mean you don't automatically assume that every aftermarket coil is bad, right? In this case it's either a scope or parts cannon lol
great video ivan
Nice Find ! Ivan, when you first said you were using a 20: 1 attenuator and I saw that it was a Pico attenuator, I was like where did you get that ? I know you just got your Pico recently and they only sell the 10: 1 attenuator now. In most cases that is all that is needed since they upgraded the newer models 4225 and 4425 automotive series scopes with higher input voltage protections. Over Voltage protection is ±250 V (DC + AC peak) on single input where as the older models I believe were limited to 100 volts. Anyway you caught yourself but hey, maybe the info will be useful to somebody ? LOL !
You got it Billy...no wonder that voltage scale was off haha
Damn those aftermarket parts!!
Potentially a lot more expensive than the price tag suggests!
"The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
The quality parts manufacturers couldn't compete with the cheaper lines. The parts stores all wanted the lowest prices. I liked C.E. Niehoff ignition parts but they sold that line off to BWD. NAPA's Echlin line used to be good. Standard used to have a higher quality Blue Streak line that was a little better.
mine did the dame thing. ended up being the pick upcoil in the distributor