428 Ford had the same bore as the 406 (4.13") and a longer 3.98" stroke. The 410 Mercury was basically a stroked 390...4.05" bore , and 3.98" crank , and lasted only two years...1966/67.
That mystery engine was the Z-11 427 that was a race only engine. Only 57 were made. They came in special light weight Impalas and were meant be more competitive against the 427 Ford and Mopar Max Wedge engines. It was based on the 409 , but had longer stroke, and I think the combustion chamber was in the head, unlike the 409.
Z-11 was not the mystery motor, it was a factory stroked 409 with 2 piece intake manifold.and raised port heads built for drag racing. The mystery motor was a clean slate design based on a 90 degree block instead of the 74 degree block of the W engine with combustion chambers in the head instead of the block. It shares bore and main spacing with the W engine, it's what later became known as the rat engine. It has big style valve covers but they are slightly smaller and won't fit the later Mark IV heads. First picture shown is the mystery motor or at least looks like it.
@@godsowndrunk1118 It took me years to find all the right facts about the mystery motors. You would see articles on the mystery motor with pics of the Z-11 and an occasional pic of the real mystery motor. I was playing around with 409s at the time and wanted to figure out what info was correct. Still have my dual quad 409 I got in 1973.
@@Sabe53 I'd like to talk with you further. Any chance I can get your email or website if you have one. My father is a big 409 expert, he knew Dyno Don.
I will come back if in the future all I want like I said this is a very inexpensive build Reason I like you guy's Ed reminds me of my uncle who worked at Ed Pinks engine shop but he's dead and gone rest his soul I'll be patient thank you Barry
Had to laugh about the Jeep Cybertruck. Back in the early 1950's, we had a guy that built a plywood body on his model A Ford. Looked a lot like a Cyber truck. He painted it 2 tone, black and buff, "flesh" color. He had long white hair, played the fiddle and his nic name was "Touch Hole".
Close with 428. They are actually .080 bigger than the 390 bore. 390 bore is 4.05 & 428 was 4.130. The 428 actually had the same bore size as the earlier 406 FE.
At one time in my shop I had 2 400 blocks that totally busted the myth about being able to tell if it’s a 2 bolt or 4 bolt block by looking at the freeze plugs. I had a 2 bolt 3 freeze plug block and a 4 bolt 2 freeze plug block.
ive never owned or torn apart any W series engine, but him talking about the difficulty of installing the pistons definitely makes sense!! im thinking other than a special made install tool how would you reliably get the pistons installed!?
Ed could bring back any lost car manufactuer. Ed bring back Olds. You are great Ed. If Ed had been in charge of the American auto assoc. It would never have been lost. Damn these cheap foreign im-puts!
The thing i loved about a clutch-flite tranny was the high rpm leave.9000 rpm dump the clutch and away you go .Only problem we ever had was it would puke out the front seal at the higher rpm once we devised a fix for that never gave us a problem. It was a finicky cable adjustment for the push button shift, my thumb still ache for that dam thing.
IT was a blast!!! hurt that thumb i mentioned so bad one time when we got back to the pits i couldn't even open the door on the truck ,scoured the pits and found a hair curler and a spoon ,put my thumb inside the hair curler and bent the spoon part off the end and used the shank of it on the under side of my thumb with the end of the spoon shank bent up over the end, then ducked tapped the whole thing up, it work great, made it to the finals where i drew the big red apple . So much fun miss every minute of it !!~
Actually i have a 511 3 freeze plug 2 bolt main 400 we are currently running it but it might break on us because we didn't do anything ti make it stronger to run in a sprint car but at least we found a 511 with a 2 bolt main in it
I was hoping you were going to ask about 400 2 bolt being stronger then 4 bolt when it’s bored and made to a 421 high rev dirt car application like my old man used to do.
@@godsowndrunk1118 also, the car was marketed to the public,,as the GTO was,, Mopar had numerous cars, mid size,big motor ,but the public had no idea these cars were available ,only racers knew about them..
In a Camaro a Saginaw car speedo cable comes in low on firewall and Muncie comes in high on the firewall so if you want to know what a first gen Camaro came with this is one way to tell.
I think that Dodge motor that he's talking about and he's talking about shimming it is the dual overhead cam Dodge motor where you shim the lifter buckets
Well Barry I'm pulling my subscription all I wanted was ed's opinion a 2 bolt main cap chevy 454 engine with a girdle handle a blower with studs more show a play hot rod gasser Three times you said I'll ask Ed thanks for noting
Are you going to stomp your feet and beat your fists on the floor too? You are not the only one asking questions, you are not as important as you think you are.
Where can a guy get one of those Ed Smith Speed Shop hats?
There's a little store on ebay. search for barryts and you should find it 👍 Thanks
Ed is amazing
428 Ford had the same bore as the 406 (4.13") and a longer 3.98" stroke. The 410 Mercury was basically a stroked 390...4.05" bore , and 3.98" crank , and lasted only two years...1966/67.
Thanks! 🙏
Speaking of 409s, Hagerty just posted a feature on Dan Gurney's Jaguar stompin' Impala being returned to his son from a long hiatus overseas.
After listening to Ed i guess we had a couple like him growing up
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good time......slip😂
Merry Christmas! 🙏
Ed. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge....
We are glad you enjoyed it! I will pass that on to Ed!
That mystery engine was the Z-11 427 that was a race only engine. Only 57 were made.
They came in special light weight Impalas and were meant be more competitive against the 427 Ford and Mopar Max Wedge engines.
It was based on the 409 , but had longer stroke, and I think the combustion chamber was in the head, unlike the 409.
Z-11 was not the mystery motor, it was a factory stroked 409 with 2 piece intake manifold.and raised port heads built for drag racing. The mystery motor was a clean slate design based on a 90 degree block instead of the 74 degree block of the W engine with combustion chambers in the head instead of the block. It shares bore and main spacing with the W engine, it's what later became known as the rat engine. It has big style valve covers but they are slightly smaller and won't fit the later Mark IV heads. First picture shown is the mystery motor or at least looks like it.
@@Sabe53 well, I guess Ed and I both didn't have the facts straight.
Thanks for the info
@@godsowndrunk1118 It took me years to find all the right facts about the mystery motors. You would see articles on the mystery motor with pics of the Z-11 and an occasional pic of the real mystery motor. I was playing around with 409s at the time and wanted to figure out what info was correct. Still have my dual quad 409 I got in 1973.
@@Sabe53 I'd like to talk with you further. Any chance I can get your email or website if you have one. My father is a big 409 expert, he knew Dyno Don.
@@Sabe53 You got it right!.
I will come back if in the future all I want like I said this is a very inexpensive build
Reason I like you guy's Ed reminds me of my uncle who worked at Ed Pinks engine shop but he's dead and gone rest his soul I'll be patient thank you Barry
Manometers were used to balance multi carbed motors
Thank you both..
We are glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much
The cyl. Head is flat, and the combustion chamber was built into the block on 348s and 409s.
Had to laugh about the Jeep Cybertruck. Back in the early 1950's, we had a guy that built a plywood body on his model A Ford. Looked a lot like a Cyber truck. He painted it 2 tone, black and buff, "flesh" color. He had long white hair, played the fiddle and his nic name was "Touch Hole".
Haha that's awesome!
Always wonderful to hear y,all 😇🏁 !
Much appreciated, I'm glad you enjoy the channel! 👍
Close with 428. They are actually .080 bigger than the 390 bore. 390 bore is 4.05 & 428 was 4.130. The 428 actually had the same bore size as the earlier 406 FE.
I just finished man Ed got full of knowledge more than i can process Ed is a cool guy
Thanks - and I agree! We are glad Ed is willing to share! 👍
Love Ed Smith
I can't think of anything looking funnier and rebellious than a Cyber Truck with a hopped up big block V8 in it.
At one time in my shop I had 2 400 blocks that totally busted the myth about being able to tell if it’s a 2 bolt or 4 bolt block by looking at the freeze plugs. I had a 2 bolt 3 freeze plug block and a 4 bolt 2 freeze plug block.
I guess every general rule generally gets broken…
ive never owned or torn apart any W series engine, but him talking about the difficulty of installing the pistons definitely makes sense!! im thinking other than a special made install tool how would you reliably get the pistons installed!?
Ed could bring back any lost car manufactuer. Ed bring back Olds. You are great Ed. If Ed had been in charge of the American auto assoc. It would never have been lost. Damn these cheap foreign im-puts!
The thing i loved about a clutch-flite tranny was the high rpm leave.9000 rpm dump the clutch and away you go .Only problem we ever had was it would puke out the front seal at the higher rpm once we devised a fix for that never gave us a problem. It was a finicky cable adjustment for the push button shift, my thumb still ache for that dam thing.
Sounds like a great time!
IT was a blast!!! hurt that thumb i mentioned so bad one time when we got back to the pits i couldn't even open the door on the truck ,scoured the pits and found a hair curler and a spoon ,put my thumb inside the hair curler and bent the spoon part off the end and used the shank of it on the under side of my thumb with the end of the spoon shank bent up over the end, then ducked tapped the whole thing up, it work great, made it to the finals where i drew the big red apple . So much fun miss every minute of it !!~
About Shiming, the 318 motor, I know you can shim the valve springs in those motors when you rebuilt them that’s all about I could think of
I'll ask Ed about that!
Actually i have a 511 3 freeze plug 2 bolt main 400 we are currently running it but it might break on us because we didn't do anything ti make it stronger to run in a sprint car but at least we found a 511 with a 2 bolt main in it
That's awesome to hear! 👍
Maybe Ed can run for president of new Dodge Chrysler corporation
I was hoping you were going to ask about 400 2 bolt being stronger then 4 bolt when it’s bored and made to a 421 high rev dirt car application like my old man used to do.
Fair enough! I will try to ask Ed soon about that
Build the truck Ed, PLEASE!!!
My dad had 62 Biscayn with a 409 and a 4speed when he was in the navy. He would race it during the weekend and head back to San Diego Sunday night.
He had fun!
Wondering how you'd cut the slot for a keyway inside a lifter bore.....?
Broach.
@@unclebob7937Hadn't heard of that tool....had to look it up.
Ah so... mystery solved. Thanks.
@godsowndrunk1118 Certainly sir. 🎄
Now they say the 64 GTO was the first muscle car. I say the first muscle car was the 1961 Impala with the 409.
The original definition of a muscle car was , mid size body, big high performance engine.
The Impala is a full size car.
All due respect.
Rocket 88 is my vote for the 1st
@@godsowndrunk1118 also, the car was marketed to the public,,as the GTO was,, Mopar had numerous cars, mid size,big motor ,but the public had no idea these cars were available ,only racers knew about them..
I think everybody had a 400 inch engine at one time or another....
Seems like it. 🤔
I sure did😁
In a Camaro a Saginaw car speedo cable comes in low on firewall and Muncie comes in high on the firewall so if you want to know what a first gen Camaro came with this is one way to tell.
Great info, thanks!
So the 427 was invented before the 396.
Well the mystery 427 was race only and not a production engine, maybe 57 built? The next production big block after the 409 was the 396 👍
I had a 430 ci 2 bolt. 400 block that ran mid 8 in a 3000lb mustang
406 /410 marauder
Yeah man!
so with retarding cam timing does that lower the dynamic compression only?
Yes....static compression will always remain the same.
I think that Dodge motor that he's talking about and he's talking about shimming it is the dual overhead cam Dodge motor where you shim the lifter buckets
Could the shims be thrust bearings?
Ford lifters are bigger diameter common upgrade to chevy engines on dirt track cars .
BMW has run 2 atmospheres in the cap
No such thing as high nickel blocks someone tested this recently I can’t remember who if I remember I’ll come add it to this comment.
why cause it has bbc valves in them
Well Barry I'm pulling my subscription all I wanted was ed's opinion a 2 bolt main cap chevy 454 engine with a girdle handle a blower with studs more show a play hot rod gasser
Three times you said I'll ask Ed thanks for noting
Well, it’s still on the list anyway… We get lots of questions. It was nice having you along for a while. 👍
Are you going to stomp your feet and beat your fists on the floor too? You are not the only one asking questions, you are not as important as you think you are.
Which is the better stock engine, 351 Windsor or the 351 Cleveland ?
Cleveland
@@knucklehead68 Windsor