This looks very good for accurate tightening of ER collets. The relatively low torque variation with positioning is within the accuracy limits of most torque wrenches. Very good display of total lever length being changed slightly by the adapter. Any change in the effective length of torque wrench handle to center of drive causes a difference in applied torque.
T = F x D, when rotating it you need to look at the hypotenuse of the triangle made between the 3 points, that is the D in your T = F X D, it is slightly longer than the handle when at 90 degrees, thus slightly more torque. Or more simply, use the T = F X D that accounts for angle, τ = rFsin(θ)
I've watched other videos in which an extension at 90° didn't change the effective torque significantly. When you add the extension, you now have a right angled triangle whose hypotenuse goes from the fastener to the handle. My hypotesis is that if you pull perpendicular to this hypotenuse then the torque will be force • hypotenuse, whereas if you pull parallel to the extension, the torque will not change.
You are correct that the hypotenuse of a right triangle represents the length of the torque arm. In our experiment here it impacted the overall number ay about 5%, because our adaptors have length so you are able to see a difference. If you were to draw an arc from the head of the adaptor and were able to get the fastener head on that arc, then the torque arm would maintain the same distance from the fastener to the handle. Thats hard to do, which is why I've always recommended doing the math approach and keeping the adaptor inline with the handle. Hope that helps! I do plan to do a video breaking down the math for this soon with graphics.
A proper test will always win over a theoretical argument. The strangest part of this for me is that people who are proved wrong by a test will put more effort into refuting the test results than into understanding why the test is correct. Denial is the mort powerful force in the known universe!
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you get the right torque by positioning the adapter such that the length from the handle to the fastener is same as from the handle to the drive of the wrench? That's an unnecessarily convoluted explanation but imagine a circle going through the head of the wrench with the center on the handle. Now just position the end of whatever adapter on this imaginary circle. Works for any adapter shorter than 2x the length of the wrench.
I believe you are correct. In this example it would be something like an 84~85°. I can test that out. Do you recall why the adaptor being shorter than 2x length was important?
@@martinprecisiontools that's for handle position, you want the handle to be as inline with the fastener while the distance from the click point to the head is the same. longer adapters can start to produce less torque the what it is set at and the longer they are the more accurate your angle of zero distance has to be.
T = r x F. r is the distance from the center of the handle (usually there's a pivot point with a marker on the handle so you can measure it) to the center of the fastener. It does not matter how many corners it turns on the way, except that some of the force will be wasted in bending any attachments/adaptors. Sorry about not using D. I learned it using vectors. When the angle of force is at right angles to the r vector, you can drop the vector notation and just multiply F and D like everyone else says. But at any other angle you need the cosine to use scalar notation.
I wish you had tried a couple other positions like 135 or 180 degrees or maybe tried to dial it in ti see if any position got back close to the base line
Thanks for a great video. Would you please do this again with a u joint at the meter and a long extension going to the torque wrench. I am curious if eliminating the side force makes a difference at the meter. In theory it should not.
Looks close enough being as the guy k doing the pulling can change the torque as much or more than the multiplayer. Obviously the higher torque number u go the larger the difference will be tho
Every adaptor combination at 90 degrees is going to be different. It's because you make a right triangle, so the leverage arm is the hypotenuse of the triangle which is √(a^2+b^2). You would have to make an Isosceles triangle where the distance from the pivot point to the handle was the same as the distance from the handle to the driver. In that case it would have no impact on the torque applied.
Average in the start: 47.75 Average with adapter inline: 57.23 Average with adapter slightly less than 90deg: 52.78 Average with adapter slightly over 90deg: 51.75 Average at the end: 49.75 The small multiplier that is left after rotating the adapter 90deg is probably due to the angle of the torque wrench to the force. That gives a slightly longer arm from the force to the application point.
Most torque wrenches pivot about 2" from the ratchet head, so putting the tool at 90° doesn't really put it at 90°. It would be 90° from the head but n° from where it's actually printing from.
Just as a question, did you cycle the torquewrench befor you started the test. I watched quite some time ago a video where another youtuber tested torquewrenches. He got a bit strange results as some higher quality wrenches were as good out of the box as lower quality ones, but then improved in a test where he just cycled them a lot of times beyond the lower quality ones. In the comments one person who was working a lot with torque wrenches that at the place they worked at, they had to cycle the torque wrenches befor using them on what they wanted to torque.
I did use that torque wrench a lot that day. I shot a bunch of takes for the other videos prior to doing this take. It is a new torque wrench, I bought it and a bunch of others specifically for testing.
This looks very good for accurate tightening of ER collets. The relatively low torque variation with positioning is within the accuracy limits of most torque wrenches. Very good display of total lever length being changed slightly by the adapter. Any change in the effective length of torque wrench handle to center of drive causes a difference in applied torque.
T = F x D, when rotating it you need to look at the hypotenuse of the triangle made between the 3 points, that is the D in your T = F X D, it is slightly longer than the handle when at 90 degrees, thus slightly more torque. Or more simply, use the T = F X D that accounts for angle, τ = rFsin(θ)
I've watched other videos in which an extension at 90° didn't change the effective torque significantly.
When you add the extension, you now have a right angled triangle whose hypotenuse goes from the fastener to the handle. My hypotesis is that if you pull perpendicular to this hypotenuse then the torque will be force • hypotenuse, whereas if you pull parallel to the extension, the torque will not change.
You are correct that the hypotenuse of a right triangle represents the length of the torque arm. In our experiment here it impacted the overall number ay about 5%, because our adaptors have length so you are able to see a difference. If you were to draw an arc from the head of the adaptor and were able to get the fastener head on that arc, then the torque arm would maintain the same distance from the fastener to the handle. Thats hard to do, which is why I've always recommended doing the math approach and keeping the adaptor inline with the handle. Hope that helps! I do plan to do a video breaking down the math for this soon with graphics.
Multiplayer torque wrenches ate one of ,y favourite games
I put a matco crows foot on a snap-on torque wrench so I could play cross platform
A proper test will always win over a theoretical argument. The strangest part of this for me is that people who are proved wrong by a test will put more effort into refuting the test results than into understanding why the test is correct. Denial is the mort powerful force in the known universe!
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you get the right torque by positioning the adapter such that the length from the handle to the fastener is same as from the handle to the drive of the wrench?
That's an unnecessarily convoluted explanation but imagine a circle going through the head of the wrench with the center on the handle. Now just position the end of whatever adapter on this imaginary circle. Works for any adapter shorter than 2x the length of the wrench.
I believe you are correct. In this example it would be something like an 84~85°. I can test that out. Do you recall why the adaptor being shorter than 2x length was important?
@@martinprecisiontools that's for handle position, you want the handle to be as inline with the fastener while the distance from the click point to the head is the same. longer adapters can start to produce less torque the what it is set at and the longer they are the more accurate your angle of zero distance has to be.
T = r x F. r is the distance from the center of the handle (usually there's a pivot point with a marker on the handle so you can measure it) to the center of the fastener. It does not matter how many corners it turns on the way, except that some of the force will be wasted in bending any attachments/adaptors.
Sorry about not using D. I learned it using vectors. When the angle of force is at right angles to the r vector, you can drop the vector notation and just multiply F and D like everyone else says. But at any other angle you need the cosine to use scalar notation.
I wish you had tried a couple other positions like 135 or 180 degrees or maybe tried to dial it in ti see if any position got back close to the base line
Thanks for a great video. Would you please do this again with a u joint at the meter and a long extension going to the torque wrench. I am curious if eliminating the side force makes a difference at the meter. In theory it should not.
Looks close enough being as the guy k doing the pulling can change the torque as much or more than the multiplayer. Obviously the higher torque number u go the larger the difference will be tho
Every adaptor combination at 90 degrees is going to be different. It's because you make a right triangle, so the leverage arm is the hypotenuse of the triangle which is √(a^2+b^2). You would have to make an Isosceles triangle where the distance from the pivot point to the handle was the same as the distance from the handle to the driver. In that case it would have no impact on the torque applied.
Average in the start: 47.75
Average with adapter inline: 57.23
Average with adapter slightly less than 90deg: 52.78
Average with adapter slightly over 90deg: 51.75
Average at the end: 49.75
The small multiplier that is left after rotating the adapter 90deg is probably due to the angle of the torque wrench to the force. That gives a slightly longer arm from the force to the application point.
Most torque wrenches pivot about 2" from the ratchet head, so putting the tool at 90° doesn't really put it at 90°. It would be 90° from the head but n° from where it's actually printing from.
what is the model number of the CDI ?
It's a 1/2" Dr 5-100 ft lbs / 6.7-135.5 Nm CDI Digital Torque Checker - 1003-F-DTC
Just as a question, did you cycle the torquewrench befor you started the test.
I watched quite some time ago a video where another youtuber tested torquewrenches. He got a bit strange results as some higher quality wrenches were as good out of the box as lower quality ones, but then improved in a test where he just cycled them a lot of times beyond the lower quality ones. In the comments one person who was working a lot with torque wrenches that at the place they worked at, they had to cycle the torque wrenches befor using them on what they wanted to torque.
I did use that torque wrench a lot that day. I shot a bunch of takes for the other videos prior to doing this take. It is a new torque wrench, I bought it and a bunch of others specifically for testing.
The multi-player multiplier.
I kept waiting for the second hand to appear for the assistance.
I intuitively knew this without watching...