"My Sister's Crown" Explanation and Analysis
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- It's the greatest expression of slav sisterhood since Poland brought a butter churn to Copenhagen. So why is everyone so grumpy with Vesna? We go back to Slavfest 1848 to figure out how "pan-slavism" become a dirty hyphenate.
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Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn't deserve.
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Btw, Vesna is also name of the old Slavic goddess of Spring.
In Russian "vesna" is translation of the word spring.
in Ukrainian and Polish it's means directly "spring"
E, hvala sestro krasiva što si to napisala. Htela sam i ja da im kažem ❤
@@SLS7778Well, it's spelled Vesna in Czech.
@SLS хочешь поумничать и научить русского человека, как произносить слова на его родном языке? ЛОЛ ХD
This is the level of discussion I want for Eurovision songs! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The “panslavism” sentiment has different undertones to Czechs. Brotherhood or sisterhood can exist within borders and sovereign nations. It’s what we did in splitting with Slovakia.
yea. just like me and my brothers are very distinct and seperate people, despite the brotherly bond. why would that not work for metaphorical siblings?
Eh, this pan-slavism thing. People are missing the context. It is Czechia. That used to be Czechoslovakia. The most amicable country split in history. We can be brothers with Sovaks because we are INDEPENDENT.
Only those who are in unwarranted position of power and control are ones who have troubles with idea of independence as they themselves are unable to think independently as they are slaves to the system of power that they are trying to maintain.
That's the thing! Putin is saying: "We are one", while the good pan-slavism is saying (or at least, should say): "We are independent siblings". Because yeah, that's the point - we can be bound by common languages, cultures, traditions; but don't have to be by legislative or border means.
@@artistbervucci1716well that's neo-slavism read about it, and I think it's 100x better than pan slavism, but in general it's unity of Slavic people but still with individual countries culture's something like more cooperation between Slavic countries
As a Czech, the reason why Czechs only have 30% of the televote is most likely because of the czech viewership of ESC being absolutely abysmal, partly due to ČT's own fault. Back in 2020, Czechs had 50% of the televote and they unanimously voted for Benny Christo not because they liked his song, but because Benny is famous and he probably just shared the voting link on his socials. Same with 2022 - Czech televote winner was the only mainstreamelly known pair. I support us only having 30% of the telebote because objectively, the czech televoters themselves do not give a damn about our song.
Yeah in CZ, no one I know rly cares about Eurovision. And it has like 0 propagation.
Interesting. In Finland Eurovision and the national selection UMK are a really big thing. As an example, on Sunday after Eurovision 4 first news headlines on the biggest national quality newspaper website were about Eurovision (with later down many more).
@@8Joya8 That's really not true.
@@dobryden.6241 Ok, so Finland has 5,6 mil citizens, 2 mil watched EV in 2022; Czechia has 10,5mil and 135k watched EV. Just by watching the national finals, you can see, the difference in eurovision popularity.
I am a gen Z in czech republic and I didn't even know what eurovision was until now. And it's not like I live under a rock, no one around me cares.
Excellent analysis of "My Sister's Crown."
I would like to see an analysis of Austria's "Who the Hell is Edgar." Among the items I would like you to cover are the role of Edgar Allan Poe in the song and the point that Teya and Salena are making through the lyrics.
I think we can do that for you.
seconded
Third-ed
Fourth-ed
yes please!
I really love this song and I'm glad it was chosen. But btw I think I need to clarify something about Poland's entry in 2014 with 'We are Slavic'. I would think people have realised by now but seems like not really: this song, its video and presentation are an IRONY. In the Polish version of the MV there is even a message about it at the start. It's making fun of people sexualising Slavic women but at the same time it's about Slavic women embracing the power they hold over their image. The fact that this entry had such high score in voting plus the outrage at the performance only shows how easily people will buy into the superficiality.
It was clearly a satire on the Slavic fetish/stereotype when the song was released, as was the whole album of Donatan "My Słowianie" is part of. However, for the Eurovision staging and messaging they went full into the stereotype and shown over-sexualised chicks on the stage. There was nothing ironic about it any more. Have they kept the satirical character of it, I'd be more supportive of this song. They didn't, and it turned pure cringe for me.
@berlineczka this 💯 👏 👏 👏 thank you for saying this!
The eurovision staging and performance didn't seem satirical anymore... more like clickbait for some cheap/east votes...
Kinda like a rapper using over sexualized women shaking their butts in their music videos rapping about female empowerment 😅
As a person who absolutely adores multilingual music, I have to say that this song is right up my valley. I’ve learned about the concept of Panslavism in school, mainly through the history of Slovakia, so the idea wasn’t new to me. I’m trying to be politically active and all of Russia’s actions worry me, and my heart constantly goes out to all the people suffering due to Russia’s evil government (yes, even Russians, even though many of them have given me a reason to hate them). After all, Vesna sings “there is no place in hate in our sea”, and I wish Russia could open its eyes and see that we do not want to hate her, but she’s not giving us a choice. This song is the manifestation of my thoughts regarding my fellow slavic nations - I wish we all could be friends, that we could prosper in a mutually beneficial relationship, that Slovakia could be everyone’s friend, but I see that my sister’s sovereignty, Ukraine’s sovereignty, is being taken away from her, and I wish to protect her. I’m very happy this song exists, and I’m even happier that it gets to appear on Eurovision. I couldn’t be more proud of Czechia right now! 💛💙
This ^ I wholeheartedly agree
russia* russians*
On point! Totally agree in all you wrote
‘right up my valley’ made me chuckle.. mostly because a valley would, by definition, be low
"Russkiy mir" is completely different from pan-Slavism. On many occasions pan-Slavism was discussed between Southern and Western Slavs without any special importance given to Russia. I do have a feeling of Slavic brotherhood, but I see them all as equal. If anything, for me personally, Russians are the last who come to mind in this pan-Slavic vision because they are already huge and a global player. Most other Slavic nations have been sidelined throughout history and that is precisely why this idea of greater mutual cooperation, or even political unity, has emerged. Certainly not to make ourselves subordinate to another country like Russia.
Exactly. Thinking about Slavs I almost don´t consider Russia as a Slavic country, because there is more about Asian nations than Slavic.
@@drakulkacz6489 well. That’s not true though.
Yes, beautifully said
@@drakulkacz6489 зачем разделять страны на национальности? Россия очень многонациональная страна. Тот образ России, который создаётся европейской пропагандой, ужасен.
С 1991 года моя страна открыла свою душу, но вокруг все плевали в неё. Смеялись над Ельциным, издевались над нашими спортсменами. Ваши правительства подло отрезали нам крылья, решив, что наше место в рамках нашего болота. Это образ Малифисенты. Вы ее ещё почувствуете.
The image of Russia isn't terrible, even still.
And from the 90's it wasn't (I can only remember somewhere around '94-'95 earliest, so...) Was better for a while, actually, after the soviet collapsed.
But image of the current Russian leadership is terrible, I admid that. But image of russians themselves, it's not that bad. Ah, it has it's good and bad, but so do our all images in sight of others. 🤷♀️
What a good analysis!
As Ukrainian, I really like that song (one of my favorites this year) and that's sad that good intentions by Vesna members were misunderstood. I was also suspicious about them until I found their interview on BBC.
i think especially the attacks on the russian member are disturbing. anti-putin russians should be supported. she risked her freedom in order to protest the invasion. it doesn't make sense to hate her for what she stands against
i know few russian speaking ukranians (i work with refugees sometimes) who 100% identify as ukranian and oppose the invasion. but they have told me they get attacked by other refugees for their language. it's important to remember that speaking russian does not at all mean you support putin
I love this channel! One of the best part of Eurovision honestly. Please cover as much as possible songs this year. Thank you ❤
So nice to hear! We'll try and keep it up for you!
@@overthinkingit im Brazilian, living in Switzerland, married to a Dutch guy. I usually love the songs from Portugal because they are always in Portuguese (and to be fair, they send good artists). So I’m always divided. But I don’t know, I can’t believe I’m saying it out loud, so far this year Germany won my heart lol! If you could cover any of these countries would be AMAZING. :) thank you for the great videos and the superb research you guys do!
Oh wow, a fellow Brazilian who likes Eurovision!
Ainda acho que a Globo deveria transmitir, hein. Seria sucesso!
@@ramonaheart com ctz!!! Eu faço todos os meus amigos no BR assistirem hahahaha eles já até começaram a gostar de tanto que eu insisto
If we're talking requests for future episodes, Samo Mi Se Spava seems like a natural pick. It's oozing with symbolism and Luke Black has been collaborating with Konstrakta too. The mixing of androgyny with apocalyptic industrial music seems also very novel for Eurovision.
Yes! I want to see this channel talk about Nine Inch Nails!
hatari?
I've been on quite a binge through your channel today so I might have left this exact comment already, can't remember, by I cannot thank you enough for representing such high quality media analysis on youtube! Your historical and cultural sensitivity coupled with the way you dare to bring up genuine deep cutting interpretation is incomparable.
You can post this comment as many times as you want! Many thanks.😊
Unrelated to this specific video, but it sure is a breath of fresh air to hear an Anglophone confronted with non-English names and not just going "haha I'm probably gonna butcher this" (and then, in fact, doing so) but actually making an effort to pronounce them correctly.
First song I've listened to from this year's contest that I genuinely liked. The analysis just improved it.
I am from Russia and I really like your analysis.
I will not be able to fully understand the pain of Ukraine. When the Serbs call us brothers, it doesn't hurt me. For obvious reasons.
Although I have always had a question, who exactly from Russia should be considered "brothers".
Our country is multinational. "Russian" as a citizen and "Russian" as a nationality are two different things (I use a translator and I don't know how to convey this in another language).
My mother is Russian by nationality, my father has mixed blood of several ethnic groups of the Soviet space.
I was raised by my mother, and I have always lived in the western part of Russia. I always felt more Russian by nationality.
We have a lot of mixed blood and different nationalities. And the Russians are among them.
For some people in Russia, "brothers" is a manipulation and a way to subjugate others. For people like me, "brother" is a sign of respect. Too bad it's become an insult now. And it’s a pity that even girls not from Russia got a minus for this.
I don't agree with our policy and I don't like the war we started.
Maybe a minor detail, but the Czech Republic wants to be officially refered to as "Czechia" since 2016. They got through their proposal to the EBU and will be officially "Czechia" from 2023 onwards in regards of Eurovision and other events.
Yeah, we heard about this only after we recorded. Next year we'll go with the new name!
@@overthinkingit i thought you guys czeched that fact already. well, at least you could edit the thumbnail ^^;
Good point - I just did!
@@MyBroSux24 'Czeched' that fact. I see what you did there. If only it hadn't taken me three hours to notice though.
Wait a minute. The Czech people already accepted Czechia as an option for their country’s name? 😲
Yo this is such a good explanation of the song, like damn i didn’t know it was that deep.
At first i thought the video was kinda weird, but you explained it really well!
Please make more videos
Ok some additional points about the pan-slavism, if I may. I am no expert but I did do a good bit of reading on the intended message of the song around the time escz happened and also I took some uni courses, have learned several slavic languages in uni courses and in general have been doing some reading on the topic in recent years. All this to say while this should be taken with a grain of salt, I do feel quite confident in this.
So firstly on the origins of pan-slavism. During the 19th century the east and south-east of Europe were mostly ruled by three empires fighting for dominance. The Ottoman empire, the Russian empire and the Habsburg monarchy. All of these knew that there is one thing that is pure poison to an empire. And that thing is nationalism. And so all three did the logical thing and funded nationalist movements in the other two Empires as well as in disputed areas. Now Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman empire had to resort to like regular old nationalism. Like 'hey, you guys want to be your own country and not subject to your evil leaders anymore? We think you're right. Here you have money, weapons and anything else you might need.' You know the drill. The Russian empire however? Well they had a secret magic argument! For the Russian empire it was a huge advantage that in the area we are talking about a lot of slavic people were living. So for that empire specifically it made sense to go 'why look. we're all slavic. shouldn't we all live together in a big slavic state? In happiness and peace? where all those evil oppressors can't get to you anymore? We think so too. Who should be leading that state? Well I have a revolutionary idea which you will LOVE!'. Now the reasons for the wish for pan-slavicism at the time were very much real. It's is fully an ideology that made sense for slavic revolutionaries at the time to buy into. And even many years later. In many ways even now. However. iirc even at the time this idea of 'we should just all join the Russian empire and live happily ever after' was not entirely popular. But regardless of the wider reception, within Russian government circles this idea of 'we should be the ones leading the Slavic people to salvation' solidified.
Time went on. WWI happened. Russia had a revolution. A communist one. A political framework that technically wants people to live happily and in harmony and that puts human rights first. However the plentiful minorities in the former Russian empire very soon were to find out that it was more of a 'freedom for me but not for thee' type of deal, cue several genocides and also WWII. Another situation in which (despite being very much one of the countries that started it mind you) the Soviet Union was able to say 'look at us! Protectors of the people!' and East of Germany there are mostly slavic people. So naturally pan-slavicism became part of soviet propaganda in the eastern block. And at the center of it the soviet union. The protectors of Slavic people from the evil west. And throughout the following years you could see quite well what happened if you didn't entirely agree with that line of thinking. In 1968 the prague spring happened. The people of czechoslovakia decided they wanted to have more freedoms. Be maybe a bit more like the west. And in return the on-paper 'allies' of Czechoslovakia showed up on their doorstep with tanks.
Many years later the soviet union fell apart just as the eastern block. Russia is finding itself more and more isolated. If one were poetic one might say a dying empire grasping at straws. And what straws does it grasp at? A fun mix of 'Oh the evil west is poisoning our subjects .. I mean (former) allies' minds against us!' and 'well really I mean we are all slavic brothers and sisters here! we should get along! we're best friends, see? Don't mind all genocides and invasions and political undermining we've done against your people or at the very least that we've supported. We're best buddies!!!'
Ending once again on a wonderful note of (excuse my German) 'und bist du nicht willig so brauch ich Gewalt!' (and if you're not willing I shall use force). With the invasion of Ukraine. An empire always tries first to use soft power (eg culture) before it uses hard power (eg war) and at the moment Russia has seemingly very much given up on the soft-power approach.
Anyways. Yes, the song uses pan-slavism. But it is a song that recognises the fact that even though it can definitely be a useful ideology Russia and its predecessors have been using it to further the goals of its empire since the ideology was first thought of. And often at the expense of other Slavic people who have suffered under the liberation they were promised especially since WWII. Many Slavic nations are to this day battling with Russia trying very hard to meddle in their affairs. Eg a few years ago a weapons' warehouse blew up in the Czech Republic which was later confirmed to have been the work of Russian spies. Other things include cyber attacks on critical infrastructure etc. And that is of course without talking about Ukraine. This song is truly saying 'fuck you and all the horrible shit you have done to me', invoking the spirit of pan-slavism to make a stand against Russia. To reclaim the ideology for those who have use for it. Saying 'we are having a slavic sisterhood without you. And if you want to be let back in it will be on our terms'
Also lines like 'you can take your hands back'. I mean that is clearly meant to be about the war in Ukraine, but the way I understand it it is also very much about all the other influence Russia wants to have on free independent countries.
But yes overall I feel like it's not just about Ukraine. It is about all the shit Russia has been trying to pull continually for years now. And also about the need for this support between slavic nations, that also get exploited from the west, which also has shown a complete unwillingness to heed their warnings on the topic. It's a highly political song in all its layers. But it's all politics that are very very relevant. Even if Russia hadn't started a war in Ukraine.
And in addition. If you think. That the Czech Republic would send a pro-Russian song to Eurovision you have never talked to a Czech person in your life. And you see the bias of anti-slavicism here. A westerner might be tempted to put this very diverse group of countries in one neat little box labeled 'stupid slavs' and suddenly people are surprised that Mateusz 'so far on the right that I'd punch him without a second thought if I ever met him in real life' Morawiecki is this strongly anti-Russia when he has said himself that he believes Russia is personally responsible for the death of his (grand?)father (I think it was him, it might've been someone else from that clown party). Just unaware, that right-wing = pro-Russia isn't a universal truth. And now we get into anti-slavicism and anti-eastern sentiment in eurovision which is a whole other can of worms for a different day.
thank you for reading, have a nice day.
I hope you don't mind if I bookmark this comment and come back to it later when I can address it more fully, because it's really thoughtful and I appreciate you taking the time to share!
For now I will just say that I think it's interesting that the historical epoch you yada yada yada over is the one I wish I had addressed in the video: the leadup to WWI and WWI itself. Because in the video as it stands I make it sound like pan-slavism became an historical curiosity in 1848 only to be revived by Vladamir Putin 150 years later. But I bet if you could have a little chat with the dying Archduke Franz Ferdinand, he would have some interesting things to say about whether pan-slavism was a spent force or not.
Most of your summary, however, goes beyond WWI into the Soviet era, which is a time I hadn't really considered as relevant to pan-slavism. It seems like you make a convincing case though! After Eurovision is done maybe I'll dig into it a little!
@@overthinkingit Oh yes absolutely. And I didn't mean to make it sound like the leadup to WWI was unimportant to the history of pan-slavism or the other way around, it just wasn't entirely relevant to the point I was trying to make. In my understanding much of the situation in 1914 is the events and ideologies from the mid 19th century going towards their natural conclusion (in this regard), bc at a very fundamental level not that much really changed in that time in the grand scheme of things. As opposed to if you compare the situation to just 5 years later. Especially when you focus on Russian empire/the soviet union.
However I do feel that in the grand scheme of things, from a czech perspective, if you look at a critique of pan-slavism, the dealings of the soviet union within the eastern block are far more relevant than anything that came before. At the very least bc it is within living memory.
hi from Czechia 🇨🇿 ! as a Czech born in 1968 and grown in the former Czechoslovakia, I admire your knowledge concerning our history, the real meaning of pan-slavism and the reality of how most of Czechs feel about Russia. Thank you for your time and effort 🙏
Also, "you can take your hands back" also reminds me of how Russia has this habit of claiming they're "helping" the countries they invade. Offering "a helping hand", if you will. It was the same with Czechoslovakia in 1968. They sent tanks in to "help" us.
I got the message of the song from day one, I'm not even slavic but I feel what they meant in this amazing song. In my top10 for all this and more. I hope it successes in Liverpool 💖
Great analysis! I learned a lot, thank you :)
Thanks for watching! I learned a lot too.
For Ukrainians, the question of Pan Slavism is not familiar. We hardly use such a concept. During the Soviet Union, the only brotherhood allowed was the union of the three nations of Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Russians. Still, these nations did not exist simultaneously because "we are all Soviet people". There were no other Slavs in the mythology of the USSR. Therefore, regarding "brotherhood/sisterhood" among Ukrainians (it doesn't matter with whom), the immediate reflex is that somebody will once again impose toxic relations and convince us of our inferiority.
I assume the girls did not want to offend but accidentally hit one of the most painful wounds of many Ukrainians.
I love my cousins in language (Spanish Portuguese Romanian French) I don't know if does exist a pan romancism (sic) but, at the end, we are all European. Proudly so.
I think there's an unfortunate cultural clash, because Czechs calling another nation brothers/sisters is kinda one of the highest praise you can give? Like we love to call Slovaks our brothers and it definitely does not mean we want to take over or anything it is usually meant as "See, in this big world where we have so many differences with one another, you my friend feel like family, I see something in you that reminds me of me." It is usually used in a really loving way, it shows our close relationship with one another, it should show the love for shared culture and history we have with each other.
So after the war started, I've seen this brotherhood/sisterhood extended for Ukraine to show support, to show that they mean something to us and that we stand behind them. But it is really unfortunate, that the connotation of this is so different for Ukrainians. Honestly if it is such an issue and if so many Ukranians feel like it is offensive being referred to as brothers/sisters, I really do not get how this did not come up during the making of the song, since a Ukranian songwriter took part in the making of the song, maybe if it wasn't so prominently used the reception of the song and the understanding, of what the message of it actually is, would be better.
@@pokomi9141 Yes, it is sad that Ukrainians perceive a good phenomenon as a threat. And I also don't understand why the Ukrainian who helped "Vesna" didn't warn the girls that they were walking on fragile ice with crocodiles under it. Perhaps this Ukrainian has lived for a long time outside the cultural environment of Ukraine (emigrated as a child?) or lived her life and did not pay much attention to politics. Because a knowledgeable person also warned against using clown-like clothing in Ukrainian-related song (Russians in their culture often portray caricature Ukrainians in ridiculous wide pants and red cheeks and girls with artificial flowers in their hair and wide smile). For comparison, it is like "black face" for Ukrainians
@@Yara-ox5my thank you, you said what I felt, but could not articulate
@@pokomi9141 It's a kneejerk reaction. putin used the word "brotherly nations" so much since 2014 that we literally associate the word "brother" with being repeatedly raped, tortured and killed. A diminutive of "brothers," "Bratushki", is one of the mockeries we use to refer to russians. Ironically, to clap back. Another is "myshebratia", sounds like mouse-brothers, mocking russian phrase of "but we are brothers", "my zhe bratia". Personally, I didn't get that immediate association with Vesna when watching semi-finals because they only sang "sister," "sestra," which isn't a word russians often use when it comes to describing colonies.
And yeah, good they changed clothing to pink tracksuits and Bianca Belair-style braids because the looks of everyone except for Bulgarian girl in the VIDEO, it DOES look like a caricature. There's also the thing that many people in Ukraine DESPISE Slavo-philia as something primitive, and we see "generic matryoshka with red cheeks" look as ultra-nationalistic russian gear deserving of mockery... Imagine Jews seeing someone in SS uniform but The Producers version. You'd pause to process it and then try to process whether someone making fun of them, or legitimately being a Slav neo-Nazi (Google Image search "kokoshnik fans", Poe's law).
Don't forget that we czechs are totally pissed at Russia because of Soviet Invasion in 1968. This historical moment ruined our parent's and grandparent's lives for 30 years. We can totally relate when we see Ukraine nowadays. So yeah this is our sisterhood.
And of course Slovaks are our siblings forever ❤😀
i really like that you explain the meaning behind the songs.
Love this! I was really curious about the meaning of this song beyond the lyrics and this is exactly the in-depth content I was looking for
I'm always in awe of how well researched and scripted these videos are. 💪
Also, are you still doing a video on the UK's song. Now we have their running order position, that should give some extra potential for analysis.
Thank you for the kind words. Gotta be honest, the UK song isn't grabbing me. Just seems like a fine, normal pop song to us. But pitch us, what are the interesting angles there?
I had a (over) thought that it's a song for the manifesting generation..... instead of Doing anything she wrote a song, and not a great one half the words are missing da da da da. The angle is how the UK team try but don't try at the same time, ...quite a feat.
Thank you for this video.
I watched the ESC for the first time in years and this was one of the few songs I really enjoyed.
As a Czech the "peace" message is iffy to me. "I want to peace" is often used for prorussian people. Infamously presidential canditate Babis said he would not help Poland if they are attacked.... because he wants "peace". This Saturday people shouted "we want peace" in the heart of Prague. Some with "Z"s and Wagner group patches on their jackets. Then they attacked cars with Ukrainian number plates... and tried to storm National Museum Capitol style... just cause it displays Ukrainian flag.
As a Czech, panslavism is icky to me, given our history with russia.
Thank you for your message! It is exactly why Ukrainians consider such messages about "peace" or "chose love over power" to be dangerous in the current situation. Also the next slogan can be: "We have to stop this war, no matter what it costs Ukraine. Why don't Ukrainians give their lands to Russia to end the war."
Yea, I get that. But I think its better if we take pan-slavism away from Putins hands this way. We can feel connected over being slavic, but that doesnt mean Russia can dictate shit to us.
But I personally feel like the message in the song is clearly pro ukrainian and the "choose love over power" and "peace" is more meant towards russians than ourselves.
@@irynasanna6013 That's interesting, because for me (being Polish) that part clearly refers to Russia - it is this sister that had been led astray by her lust for power, and she should choose love over this power to be allowed back into the pack.
It's basically telling Russia it is now in the sisterhood purgatory until it learns how to behave and treat our other sister - the one that is brave, unique, and no one has a right to take her crown away - better. This sister is clearly Ukraine, and this is the one the band expressed support for.
Also, in both the Czech and Polish historical traditions, the crown is clearly a metaphor for political independence, as both struggled with getting one and becoming a kingdom, i.e. independent from the meddling by the German emperors. I am not sure how evident this metaphor is for Ukrainians, though, as their national symbol is the trident.
@@berlineczka The problem is that it's a controversial song about a painful topic. Everyone can understand it differently due to different personal experiences. There are a lot of controversial symbols in the song and the video. Each of them separately would not cause such negative reaction. But when they are all together in one place we have what we have. My personal point of view is that if you address your song to somebody, first of all, you have to check that this audience will understand it correctly.
If we talk about the "peace" message, it is not clear from the song that the message is addressed only to Russia. It is your personal interpretation based on your world view. A lot of people who supports Putin also ask for peace. But they see differently how to achieve this peace. I don't say that Vesna one of them. I'm just trying to show that in the current situation this message does not show absolute support for Ukraine.
Also a lot of Russians like this song because they interpret it in their own way.
@@berlineczka no russia should be annihilated, not to choose love, it's to late for this bullshit. russia will never be loved in Ukraine for sure
2:30 The Polish song is actually called My Słowianie (Us Slavs - yes, the vid only shows women, perhaps dealing with a phenomenon known as "generic masculinum" - the fact that in most Slavic languages, some professions and most nations use the male grammatical gender (most Slavic languages use 3 genders - male (also differing between animate and inanimate), female and neutral).
I love the Re volutions Podcast shoutout
As a Balkan Slav I can completely understand why people are suspicious of pan-slavism and I am glad you addressed this since it is pretty niche in grand scheme things. Pan-Slavism in political policy I am not so sure about (as in officially uniting countries into one) since the Slavic world is incredibly diverse, however as a general attitude I think it definitely something that should be reclaimed from Putin's greed.
I've talked with my best friend whose parents were Croatian and Serbian and she seemed to have similar sentiments. As a general attitude there's a sense of cultural connection between the Slavic nations, while all retaining their individual identities. It all just goes to show the wonderful diversity of Slavic culture and unifying it all would take away from that.
Love your work! On this song, don't you think "you can't steal our souls" is a pretty clear reference to 1944, "Don't swallow my soul, our souls"?
Thanks for reminding about 'Slavic girls', I was hoping everybody forgot about this long time ago... I am Polish and in 2014 I went abroad to study and almost every time someone learnt where I am from they were making a reference to this song and honestly it sucked 😅. Also I think the 1st place in UK and Ireland might be caused by a big number of Poles living there which allowed them to vote for Poland. This year I am sad again because I don't believe I will ever see my country sending a decent song to Eurovision 😆
Anyway it is really great analysis of Czech song. Will you talk about Serbia? And maybe Finland? These two are my favorites this year and I think they both have an interesting message.
Lol, all of the authors from 8:44 were my teachers and one of them is my bachelor thesis supervisor right now. Good selection of sources my man & great video. Greetings from 🇨🇿
Why hasn't the youtube algorithm recommended me this before? I hope you'll continue next year!
Do "Blood and Glitter"
Maybe, it's on the bubble.
This video was so funny and quirky while being suoer informative, your personality and delivery is incredible, I don't know how you managed to make a video about such a deep topic so deep and informative yet so witty, 10/10
Okay, thank you! I saw people upset over this song and I couldn’t understand the reasoning. I really think this song slaps tbh
This is the Best year for sestra krasiva
We are Domi was the best by a long shot
OMG, the absoulutely best analysis! Sooooooo goooooood U are! 😉
"this song is about feminism against patriarchy"
Well, it's about one patriarch, that's for sure
Amazing analysis ❤
Vesna 's song is absolutely beautiful
Felicidades por su arduo trabajo. Siempre esperando con grandes expectativas cual será el siguiente video
So nobody is gonna comment on the Stranger Things bit, huh?
I lost it as soon as you said "Hawkins, Indiana", definitely wasn't expecting a Vecna reference! 😂👏🏻
To be honest I find this song beautiful, and true how most of Slavs feel about the war in Ukraine, in Poland is plenty Russian and Belarusian people who didn't had life in their countries as they are strongly disagree with Putin and Lukaszenko. They suffer a lot in their countries of origin - some of them even tortures, but their lives in Poland aren't easier. Backlash from Polish nationalists, sometimes even physical attacks are frequent. My hear ache when I see everyday those mass of refuges, and still remember about atrocities my great grandparents and grandparents suffer during the WWII. And crimes committed by Putin troupes in Ukraine very much represent cruelty of soviet ''svoloch'' from 1930-1953. Russian leaders didn't change an inch since about 400 years. Yes, WWII didn't finish for eastern Europeans in 1945.
Ok, i'm in love with this channel, thank you. Wish you thousands of subscribers
Will New York Matt and Mark be hosting a party at The Liberty in NYC this year?
Will Los Angeles Matt, his wife and the beagle be hosting a watch party also?
May we please get a speed round for the countries you haven't been able to cover?
I don't understand the people claming it's "splitting pro-Ukraine vote", like... Is winning the contest twice in a row really gonna stop the war or help the victims ?
All Ukrainian eurofans I know loved this song so much. I’m aware, many of them criticise Vesna, but I don’t think it was majority of them
Una visión de la canción que no había logrado captar, acerca de esa "hermandad" de los países eslavos; sí me pareció que la canción presenta un mensaje pro Ucrania, al conocer los países y lenguajes que incluye la canción, pero esos detalles son los que enriquecen la cultura de alguien que ve el concurso desde tan lejos. Salud y saludos desde Venezuela!!!!
A vision of the song that he had not been able to capture, about that "sisterhood" of the Slavic countries; It did seem to me that the song presents a pro-Ukrainian message, knowing the countries and languages that the song includes, but those details are what enrich the culture of someone who sees the contest from so far away. Blessings and greetings from Venezuela!!!!
My Sisters Crown was so damn good, it deserved way more points imo!
amazing high quality content, rooting for you and ur sub count :DD
Amazing, interesting and fascinating video!
Many thanks!
I am missing here amidst of the political analysis, a bit of the symbolism of the hand gesture against gender-based violence that is also panslavist and cross-border and which is also beimg strongly brought up.
The Irish and UK votes for the Polish song might have something to do with the giant Polish diaspora in those countries.
It feels like people don't understand what Pan-slavism actually was. Back then all the smaller slavic nations were under the rule of different nations. We were facing the threat of our culture and languages being erased. I'm not joking, btw, for us under the Habsburg monarchy there was a mandatory Catholicism and our children in school were tought in german as opposed to their mothers tongue. And people who were actively fighting against that ended up dead, imprisoned or in exile. Pan-slavism was then introduced as a way to fight the oppression - together as one. It's literally the same reason why it was Czechoslovakia that formed after the WWI and not Czechia and Slovakia. Because there were (and to this day still are some) territorial disputes over the land (see what happened during WWII to Czechoslovakia) and two nations would be stronger in fighting against it than each on their own. Pan-slavism didn't came out of some kind of beliefs about slavic supremacy, but out of necessity to survive. The way Putin now uses Pan-slavism is different. Back then it was "we're family, we should do this together," now it is "we're family, that means I own you." It's not small nations fighting against the oppression of bigger nation, it's the bigger nation annexing the smaller one under the claim of sharing a culture and history. Which is not anything new under the sun, it happened already in the Eastern Block, back then it was the Soviet Russia silencing any national sovereignity movements. Czechs and Slovaks being the target of the 1968s invasion. And Ukraine isn't the only country affected by this "new" idea of Pan-slavism, it's just the first country in the line. If Ukraine falls, the others are next. This song is a reminder that smaller slavic nations have to fight together once more to survive, it is a wake up call.
This clip isn't banned in Russia
Is anyone accusing Let 3 of splitting the Ukraine support vote? They have an anti-Putin song too. I'm just curious.
I hope Czechia wins... I really do - that was really well done by them!
Re argument #1. A very big percentage of Russian population is actually well aware and supportive of the war. I'll say more, it's not the first war they're aware of and supportive.
From the minority that might actually disagree, did we see ANY meaningful attempt of doing anything against theirs country's politics throughout more than a year of war? Any moment we could recall and say, man they were so close, or wow, they really did something there? Apart from very few selfless individuals, most of them are ok with what's going on as long as it doesn't thouch them directly (how many Russians left the country in response to starting the open war vs how many after they became at risk for mobilisation). Some sisterhood song is not going to flip their wordview
This sociological reality os also why some Ukrainians don't appreciate glorification of the 'good' Russians. The narrative of sisterly nation is very harmful in our context. This stereotype often makes foreigners (who oftentimes haven't dealt with Russia very closely) think it's just one dictator's fault, and simple people are so close While its the simple people who let this happen and who devotedly does the job. Its not an army of Putin's clones, its the simple people.
If you listen to what Russian opposition says beyond the unspecific "no war" posts on social media, you'll see that they have the same imperialist ambition towards Ukraine but prefer different methods.
It's important to recognise everyone's blame in the crimes, and its important to understand that the whole Russian society came to this state of waging wars not just one man. All too often we hear about how Russians actually disagree with Putin, at the very time when Russians continue doing their part in this war, for a long time now.
Ok as an austrian I did not expect Metchicn to be name dropped in and anclais of the Check ESC song
Excellent work! Thank you ...
Im a bit confused about the group, is it 5 members or 6 members? it looks like 6 but in most of their posts on instagram plus the bio they're only five...
Amazing video! I would love if you could >overthink< Gladiator by Jann. I know it didn’t qualify but it has so much more meaning than the jury choice Solo!
Nice analysis. Please do Austria next!!!
Maybe not next but it's coming.
@@overthinkingit Awesome. That'll definitely take a lot of analysis. I'm excited to see it!
Thanks you, very interesting analysis
Bravo!! Awesome analysis
Excellent analysis!
Totally agree with this analysis. Sadly, I feel it will fall on deaf ears. Vesna have some serious work to do - and we in the west need some humility as well. Ultimately, if any form of pan-Slavism is not what Ukraine wants for its future, we must respect that, as long as they otherwise align themselves with European values instead of lurching to a nationalist capitalist far-right.
Do you think that in Ukraine, there is a tendency towards nationalist capitalist far-right? In our parliament, out of 405 deputies, only one represents the right-wing forces. The fact that there are only solid Nazis in Ukraine is a fiction of Russia. Don't fall into that trap
But pan-Slavism sounds beyond far right, isn't it literally a Nazi ideology just replacing German "Aryans" with Slavic ones? OF COURSE everyone in Ukraine is for capitalism, that means actually eating food, compared to when russians invaded us 100500th time, forced us to be "socialist", which means moscow taking away our food, and selling it to France and Germany, forcing millions of Ukrainians to starve. Like we will never agree to planned economy for same reason we shouldn't agree to peace with russia. Self-preservation.
I mean, the fact that the video was banned in Russia for me is evidence that this band is ok!
The 'splitting the votes' argument is stupid btw, it's like saying people will ONLY vote for Ukraine out of sympathy. Kroatia and Moldova also had pro-Ukrainian songs, Vesna wasn't the only one.
This clip isn't banned in Russia
I thought this was a really well-written feminist anthem at first, but I guess I got it wrong :(
Still a good song that deserved better though :)
Thank you for this deep dive explanation.
I've read somewhere that Vesnas performance is not just about solidarity with Ukraina. It is also in support of Moldova (and Georgia?) Both countries are currently beeing attacked (not military) by Putins Russia in order to undermine their democracy and keep them from future accession to the EU.
Have I got that part of the song all wrong?
As far as I know the band has only mentioned Ukraine, and I'd be a little surprised if they got more specific than that, since Eurovision songs are supposed to be apolitical. We feel that there's an unspoken exception this year for "isn't the war bad" songs but I imagine if Vesna made statements about Moldova and Georgia's internal politics the EBU might frown at that.
@@overthinkingit Ok! Then it was just someone's interpretation of the song I read. Probably since Moldova has been one of Czechia's top foreign policy priorities during the last decade or so.
@@eurovego i think it's understandable that some of the message can extend to moldova and georgia, in the sense that they wish to assert that "they are not your dolls" - which is much what moldova and georgia are trying to do right now!
but i think Vesna's specific focus is on what they know best, which is their own slavic identity, which i'd argue isn't quite the same for georgia and moldova. actually I think the message would REALLY backfire to assert that georgia and moldova are slavic as there is a lot of turmoil about how russia's influence has controlled their culture aha.
@@neconeconeco I have to learn a lot more about the countries that was forced to be a part of the Soviet union and the relations between them and seperatly towards Russia. I'm to ignorant for that right now. But thx for your effort!
Moldova was invaded by russia in 1991, Georgia in 1992-3 and 2008. The russian military still illegally occupies parts of their territories. @@overthinkingit Last year Moldova literally had a purely political song which entire lyrics talked about reunification with Romania... I think there was a train going between capitals too, but the message was clear "won't it be good if our countries become one again". ANYWAY, replacing any message of SLAVIC unity with something relating to Georgia, Moldova, Syria, Ichkeria, Azerbaijan, Finland, Poland, former Czechoslovakia, three Baltic States and other countries that russians invaded and occupied would be much better and less icky. The idea that only Slavic countries deserve support is creepy... Mind you I didn't find that in the song, but I only watched it in semi-finals without the ridiculous costumes.
As a Ukrainian, I disagree with the points and I think the song is great! Love from Ukraine
The difference is that Ukranians are defending their country but Tony Keith songs are in support of America going to war that they started
Im confused about the 5th reason.
The problem with Slavic Girl, is that it's still incredibly good! :D
8:06 Начинает говорить о Славянском съезде 1848 года в Праге (Чехия), но показывает карту народов СССР (в границах с 1950-х годов). В съезде 1848 года русский народ и восточные славяне почти НЕ были представлены (были русины и Михаил Бакунин, но Бакунин не мог представлять русских, а русины в том момент в большинстве проживали в Австрийской Империи, а не в России).
Тут нужно отметить, что В. Путин вытащил идею объединения в общий концлагерь -- идеи Троцкого или имперские идеи Сталина, чем бы они не были замаскированы. Путин вытащил НЕ идею панславянизма и объединения славян. Сейчас Путин антирусский и антиславянский политик, вот это не должно ускользнуть от наблюдающего.
Another point is how the song claims "you can't use your God against us". Russia and Ukraine have being in a religious war since 2018, with 2 Orthodox churches in Ukraine
You gotta love how „Metternich“ was pronounced correctly, but „von“ wasn’t. It’s like „fon“
I honestly don’t get the mass-popular idea that Russian government and media are so controlling and manipulative. Governments of all countries show their citizens a tiny bit of information that’s kinda essential to know. Rest is hidden and is probably a concern of the government itself… Anyways, the idea of unity in the song is great ☮️
Solidarity from Russian people is good, I don’t understand why people wouldn’t support Russians going against their own government. I get people are angry, but Russians speaking against it is a good thing.
Why is it "Vladimir Putin, supposedly" if this article was actually signed? I probably ask too much for a UA-cam video
Thanks for the video. When I first heard and saw the song I cringed because I knew this was going to be problematic... I hope the intentions were good but it was just vague enough to be interpreted as pro-russian.
all of the 'hate' is literally just nonsense lmao especially towards the russian member, its disgusting that shes faced with hate just for existing.
it's a normal reaction to face when your country started the biggest war in Europe after WW2. russians have to accept that and if they really support Ukraine, they will understand why they are the enemies of the whole free world. all russians are guilty and responsible for all the horrors that other russians are doing to Ukrainians right now.
40 millions of Ukrainians get bombed every day for existing while whiter russians are drinking champagne in EU and are paraded at Oscars.
THEY HAVE TO WIN !!!
Ok, now I get the hideous video (sorry, I feel this way). But does a piece of art which has to be explained really attain it's aim?
Reappropriate pan-slavism.
Referencing New Yorker while describing the current domestic policy in Russia... That's not a good level of expertise
Dont forget, Slavic are also Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, not just the countries hit by a war.
In my opinion, Nato succeded their plan: to push Slavic countries into war. It wouldn’t be possible if Slavic countries (sisters) were in harmony, which was really “once upon a long long time”.
The problem: RUZZIANS ARE NOT SLAVIC, they are conglomerate of finno-hungarian ethnic nations like Chud, Meria, Mordva etc.
Lie that russians are slavic is a propaganda that started from Petr 1, who hired german history scholars to re-write history of Moscovia and rename it in "russia" claiming they are slavic. They are not slavic. They are finno-hungarian plus tatars. Even they classic writer Pushkin admit that.
Genetic analysis of russian DNA prove it - they are not slavic at all.
I may be overthinking it, but I notice that the pre-chorus of this song and Jamala's 1944 has matching themes almost line by line:
Jamala: Where is your heart? Humanity rise
Vesna: Life's not a moneybag
Jamala: You think you are Gods, but everyone dies
Vesna: Blood's on your God's head
Jamala: Don't swallow my soul, our souls
Vesna: You can't steal our souls
Pure coincidence? Or?
First of all, musically this song is dope and I like it. But: the best Ukrainians can percieve this song is tone-deaf.
1) Basically all the toxic relationship between Russia and Ukraine over centuries was explained with brotherhood. Tapping into sisterhood is either intentional or just being very poorly informed. Yes, you've covered that in this video and huge thanks for that. I don't think you understand the degree of this though. Even now, many modern mixed Ukrainian-Russian families (including mine, for example) went broken because of this narrative. Fellow Czechs, it's nothing personal, but please, don't tap into traumatic topics next time? Besides, Ukraine finds huge fellowship outside of a Slavic world, check Estonia and Finland for example.
2) I can hardly understand the Russian intervention references with girls who represent countries other than Russia in a music video. Does that mean that Russian propaganda has consumed Poland or Czechia? It's not like that in reality. It feels more like saying "everyone's on the same boat of being wronged, some are more than others", which is a message that blurres the line between aggressor and a victim.
3) It taps into the narrative of "Putin's war", portraying a clear difference between Russian government and Russian people, which is absolutely not how Ukrainians see what's happening. It also ignores still prevailing Russian domestic support of the war, which, as you've mentioned, Putin is afraid to lose, but can we focus for at least a moment on the fact that vast majority of Russians were in a total, partial or silent support of their country bringing violence to other nations (Moldova, Ichkeria/Chechnia, Georgia, Syria) for decades?
I see why everyone's excited about this song and see it as an act of support for Ukraine, and most likely that was the initial idea of the band. But a better research should've been made. If we're already talking about reaction on this song potentially playing in favor of Putin, why don't we talk how narratives of this song play in favor of Russian propaganda, which works on a way broader plane than just Putin and his interests.
We don't really care about a pro-Ukrainian song competing with a Ukrainian song. I doubt Ukrainians need a ESC2023 win. What we care about is the meanings that Russian propaganda can utilize (even in an anti-Putin song), and unfortunately this song has a lot of those. Trust me, Russian propaganda machine is fully aware that image of Putin is spoiled for good, but what it cares about is pushing messages it needs through "unproblematic" channels.
Call me a simpleton, but you said 'can we at least focus on the fact that a majority of Russians were in total/partial/silent support of their country bringing violence to other nations for decades?"
Haven't we done that many times? I mean, many people "hate the Russians" because of that, they've been chewed up and spat out in movies and are néver the friendly ones in ány movie, *ever.* All they are portrayed as is spies, mean villains, evil-spirited men with bald heads (inspired by Putin) and the exception is the occassional high-cheekboned prostitute from Russia called Svetlana.
I'm not saying forgive and forget, I'm saying that when a large part of Russian people are done with being dictator-ed and the voice against Putin is getting stronger (even though many dissappear into the Russian Prisons before the word can get out to the world) then wouldn't it be beneficial for everyone (except Putin) if the Russians knew that Europe accepts the new wave of people that are against Putin? And the old wave that has finally found some strength to let their voice be heard too?
If we have one enemy (the Russian government) and we seperate Russians from the government, chances are we can do this.
Putin wants nothing more than for the Russians to think that Europe wants to hurt them. As long as they believe that, they stick 'safely' with Putin.
(I'm from the Netherlands and perhaps not fully informed on everything, but this is what I wanted to write.)
Those are exactly my thoughts!
thank you for such a good explanation!! а мені спершу сподобалася пісня, допоки не вдумалася і не зрозуміла сенсу. Слава Україні!
Honestly, I see Syrians, Georgians and Finns as my sisters and brothers much more than I see someone based on race or language. I feel pan-Slavism is generally a poor taste, like pan-Germanism was Nazi ideology, pan-Slavism is Ruscist one. But since I didn't see the video but only the updated neutral girl power costumes at semi-finals, I didn't think about it... I used to see Czechoslovakia as the "assaulted in 1968", kinda like I see Finland 1940 or Baltic states 1945. To me it was country INVADED by russia first and foremost, and "happening to have a similar language to ours" second. I didn't imagine to think about a song with feminist optics as some weird race purity thing called Slavophilia or whatever...
Hi, czech person here. I will react to the propaganda - we actually have serious issues with groups sponsored by russian propaganda spreading this narrative, organizing demonstration and protests etc. Slovakia has even bigger problem with this. They play the narrative "we don´t have enough for ourselves, we shouldn´t help Ukraine" and combined with economic decline this can be explosive. Fortunately our government is strong in support and next election are relatively far away, plus the percentage of people believing russian narrative is low, but they are so loud
Absolutely love it! 🇧🇬 🇨🇿 🇺🇦
The last reason is pretty legit :D
Yeah did he really have to break all her limbs in addition to eating her soul? Just seems like a real jerk move.
These are indeed weird reasons for people to get mad about Vesna if the song and the band are clear enough to understand. Except if those reasons happen exactly due to people failing to see the truth due to the many lies.
You were close to getting Pan-Slavism problem right, but missed a small nuance -- bad vibes Ukrainians got from this song aren't putin's "clingy ex" flavour of Pan-Slavism. But rather from russian opposition (for the last 100 years): we're all family and we need to stand up against that bully over there, who isn't really part of the family. Iffiest part of the song is actually music video with preface stating that some external force (you can read it as a putin being dropped from Mars or as western interference) had broken slavic sisterhood.
Poland doing well in Ireland and Uk is because there’s polish people nothing more
good job❤, hello from Ukraine
I see how he boldly misses the things that make Ukrainians furious about the music video - aside the Slavic brotherhood things, there are a lot of references about actually Russia and not Ukraine (feeding people with propaganda etc) exploiting Ukrainian culture (borshch at the very least) which is considered like cultural expropriation here in Ukraine. People just don't get that the only thing Ukraine could be under Russian rule is a colony. So that really detracts people off here in Ukraine. The biggest thing with most Russian liberals is that they still exploit Ukrainian culture and make cultural expropriation awarely or not, but that happens so you can guess that... Ukrainian don't like Russian liberals pretty as much as Putin or a common Russian person. And whenever someone tells you that people in Russia struggle for their political beliefs etc you should always remember people in Ukraine struggle way worse.