Love it Mike over the years I seeked out original pressings and I still do from time to to time I agree with you on the AP Prestiges they sound glorious as far as blue note I dig the Kevin Gray mastering but there is something amazing about when you drop the needle on a clean mono OG Blue note IMO that’s magical awesome topic Mike have a great week.
Great video Mike! I have all 50 titles of AP Prestige, a must have collection, however, I would love to own OGs, if I come across them in good shape and reasonable price, less than $100. You’re right about OG’s being hard to listen to when the music is quiet w/ surface noise. It’s a gamble sometimes, when you find a good catch at local stores, it went both ways for me. The key thing is to own and play this amazing jazz music, as we’re all Jazz Bums!
I love John Coltrane with The Red Garland Trio. Such a great session with Coltrane pushing the band a bit more and Red Garland is such a master at staying in the pocket but making it interesting.
Nice video Mike. To my ears, 95% of the time, the AP’s are superior to the Prestige OGs, especially in low end and imaging. Another pressing to keep an eye out for are the Fantasy reissues (Especially Booker Ervin, Don Patterson, etc) up until the late 70s when the OJCs got going. Some of those Fantasy releases are DIRT-DOG cheap!!, like < $10! Some folks poo-poo the Early Fantasy’s, but those folks are wrong:)
I enjoyed listening to your observations. I prefer to listen to the Original releases when I can find them as I find the OGs have greater detail than the reissues. Let me qualify that I prefer a near field listening experience as it provides a greater soundstage and instrument detail. I do purchase and listen to the reissues when I cannot find the Original release.
Hi Mike, excellent video, balanced as ever - I think you get to the nub - it's all subjective - we all seek out recordings for different reasons and when it comes to listening we all have different experience, tastes, set-ups and 'ears'. I only have one (sort of) example for comparison which is a UK Esquire 1st press of Cookin' (Esquire used the same metal-work as the US Prestige First issues - matrix is the same - but were pressed in Decca plants in the UK). I prefer the AP but this could be because my experience is with these pressings so the UK original sound is not what I'm used to. I'm no critic so would struggle to articulate why this is in sonic terms but for me the AP just swings harder - might be to do with less prominence given to the solo instruments pushing the rhythm into the soundstage more - feels like a band interacting rather than soloists being driven /supported. As you say though any difference is small - I don't see a need to own both IMO. I'm selling the first issue - don't think I'd ever play it over the AP. Interesting video and interesting to read all the views in the comments.
JB Mike - another solid video. It would be interesting to hear a true 1st press along with early represses - compared to the modern audiophile pressing. I mostly have early represses (2nd or 3rd). I would be willing to lend my copies to you if you are interested in a multi-press comparison
So the analog productions prestige series is really one of my favorite series and I think it has to do with how they are produced, meaning the decisions that were made about the remastering. They definitely stay truer to the originals and I feel like there is a really big effort to balance everything in a way the best serves the recording. When I am critical of the tone poets and the classics is when they are following a different goal of just trying to lay down exactly what's on the master tape. And I think this leads to some of those having too much energy on the top among other things. On some recordings it sounds incredible and on other recordings I feel like a mastering philosophy that serves the best presentation of the music over the raw master tape sound would be much better. I think that Sterling Sound does an amazing job of having remasters that maximize detail, dynamic range, and extension while really presenting the music in the best and most natural way possible, and I think that philosophy really comes from George Marino.
I done the same with Prestige/Blue Note/Contemporary/Verve/Riverside and 95% I prefer the OG. Verve and Riverside are the ones where I could live easy with a reissue and sometimes the hiss on Prestige can be a problem. Sound wise I am an OG guy, but very often I can not find an OG for a decent price so I have to live with a reissue, first world problems....
With the blue notes 1500/early 4000 series, I find that the OGs have that mid bass punch which is missing from the reissues, although the reissues sometimes present more details….could this be partly due to RVG cutting off the low bass info as claimed by Hoffman & Fremer?
@@gfy4476 that’s exactly what he did. Which done right, really has a great effect. It is dynamically limiting, but the way he managed to remove some of the low end and compress the mid really created his sound signature. That’s from Joe Harley. Thanks for watching! F
Hey Mike, great inights. Unrelated to the subject matter, of which I mostly agree, this video would be much more enjoyable if you recorded through an Apple desktop app like QT or via your iPhone, to avoid the frequent stuck frame moments. Cheers, and hope to see you around the city. -J
@@JazzBums Apple screen recording via QT Player is free and super reliable / high resolution. Hope that helps-I think your audience (picky, never satisfied audio lovers) might greatly appreciate it! :)
I thought you might have mentioned that it was necessary for RVG to somewhat narrow the sonic frequency spectrum of the tapes during mastering to accommodate the fact that most consumers were using what we would now consider today as vastly inferior turntables and tone arms. If the fuller spectrum was used on the final disc, then the danger was that the old tonearms would jump right out of the groove. So, sacrifices had to be made. That must have sucked to deal with.
@@stevecasey6126 that’s right, Joe Harley and Kevin Gray have shed some light onto this topic in their interviews. It’s a great point. Thanks for bringing this up! - Mike
Nice idea, but the comparison only works if the original is played with the right mono cartridge and the reissue with a modern stereo cartridge plus mono button.
@@Musikrama thanks, and yes, there are many limitations in this analysis. I framed this as just a fun topic to talk about, not as definitive. I hope that came across. - Mike
yes, you call it a fun comparison and do it in your usual friendly way. But the title still suggests a serious comparison and you come to a conclusion. But it is based on an incorrect playback of the original. That's not really serious for me. Nevertheless, thank you for the good entertainment!
I appreciate your level of seriousness. I get what you are saying, but it also isn't really relevant to probably 95% of the people that will watch this video. Most of our viewers don't have two turntables with different cartridges, or a single table with multiple tonearms. Even fewer will have a dedicated mono cartridge for only the records cut with a non-stereo cutting head, or the interest in determining which of the three they should choose from for a specific record. The vast majority of people listening to these records are likely doing so with a modern stereo cartridge, with or without a mono switch. In that context this comparison works just fine. - Chris
Very thorough! Collecting factor vs clean, detailed audiophile reissues is always a Catch 22
Thanks Tim!
Love it Mike over the years I seeked out original pressings and I still do from time to to time I agree with you on the AP Prestiges they sound glorious as far as blue note I dig the Kevin Gray mastering but there is something amazing about when you drop the needle on a clean mono OG Blue note IMO that’s magical awesome topic Mike have a great week.
I like Mike The Jazz Bums take on these titles. Enjoyed watching and learning. 🙌✌️😎🎵🎼😊
Great video Mike! I have all 50 titles of AP Prestige, a must have collection, however, I would love to own OGs, if I come across them in good shape and reasonable price, less than $100. You’re right about OG’s being hard to listen to when the music is quiet w/ surface noise. It’s a gamble sometimes, when you find a good catch at local stores, it went both ways for me. The key thing is to own and play this amazing jazz music, as we’re all Jazz Bums!
I love John Coltrane with The Red Garland Trio. Such a great session with Coltrane pushing the band a bit more and Red Garland is such a master at staying in the pocket but making it interesting.
Yeah, it's an excellent Prestige session with long songs so that everyone can solo, love it -- Mike
Great summary! I’ll have to compare some myself, very much enjoyed the video!
Thank you. Great vid!!!
Nice video Mike. To my ears, 95% of the time, the AP’s are superior to the Prestige OGs, especially in low end and imaging. Another pressing to keep an eye out for are the Fantasy reissues (Especially Booker Ervin, Don Patterson, etc) up until the late 70s when the OJCs got going. Some of those Fantasy releases are DIRT-DOG cheap!!, like < $10! Some folks poo-poo the Early Fantasy’s, but those folks are wrong:)
Thanks! Agreed on imaging and low end, and agreed on those 70s Fantasy reissues - Mike
I enjoyed listening to your observations. I prefer to listen to the Original releases when I can find them as I find the OGs have greater detail than the reissues. Let me qualify that I prefer a near field listening experience as it provides a greater soundstage and instrument detail. I do purchase and listen to the reissues when I cannot find the Original release.
I totally only voted in the poll four times. - Chris
😂😂😂
Hi Mike, excellent video, balanced as ever - I think you get to the nub - it's all subjective - we all seek out recordings for different reasons and when it comes to listening we all have different experience, tastes, set-ups and 'ears'.
I only have one (sort of) example for comparison which is a UK Esquire 1st press of Cookin' (Esquire used the same metal-work as the US Prestige First issues - matrix is the same - but were pressed in Decca plants in the UK).
I prefer the AP but this could be because my experience is with these pressings so the UK original sound is not what I'm used to. I'm no critic so would struggle to articulate why this is in sonic terms but for me the AP just swings harder - might be to do with less prominence given to the solo instruments pushing the rhythm into the soundstage more - feels like a band interacting rather than soloists being driven /supported.
As you say though any difference is small - I don't see a need to own both IMO. I'm selling the first issue - don't think I'd ever play it over the AP.
Interesting video and interesting to read all the views in the comments.
JB Mike - another solid video. It would be interesting to hear a true 1st press along with early represses - compared to the modern audiophile pressing.
I mostly have early represses (2nd or 3rd). I would be willing to lend my copies to you if you are interested in a multi-press comparison
Thanks! That might be helpful for future shootouts. I'll reach out on the Discord if I do any more -- Mike
So the analog productions prestige series is really one of my favorite series and I think it has to do with how they are produced, meaning the decisions that were made about the remastering. They definitely stay truer to the originals and I feel like there is a really big effort to balance everything in a way the best serves the recording. When I am critical of the tone poets and the classics is when they are following a different goal of just trying to lay down exactly what's on the master tape. And I think this leads to some of those having too much energy on the top among other things. On some recordings it sounds incredible and on other recordings I feel like a mastering philosophy that serves the best presentation of the music over the raw master tape sound would be much better.
I think that Sterling Sound does an amazing job of having remasters that maximize detail, dynamic range, and extension while really presenting the music in the best and most natural way possible, and I think that philosophy really comes from George Marino.
Thanks for your thoughts here, I didn't think of it in that light, "stay truer to the originals," that makes sense. -- Mike
Blue Note re-issues (optimal?)are not pressed as-well as the Prestige re-issues (QRP)
Tone poets are pressed at RTI, and classic series are optimal
Thank you for the further detail, in the end, everything makes a difference.
I done the same with Prestige/Blue Note/Contemporary/Verve/Riverside and 95% I prefer the OG. Verve and Riverside are the ones where I could live easy with a reissue and sometimes the hiss on Prestige can be a problem. Sound wise I am an OG guy, but very often I can not find an OG for a decent price so I have to live with a reissue, first world problems....
Ha, yeah, I hear you. -- Mike
With the blue notes 1500/early 4000 series, I find that the OGs have that mid bass punch which is missing from the reissues, although the reissues sometimes present more details….could this be partly due to RVG cutting off the low bass info as claimed by Hoffman & Fremer?
@@gfy4476 that’s exactly what he did. Which done right, really has a great effect. It is dynamically limiting, but the way he managed to remove some of the low end and compress the mid really created his sound signature. That’s from Joe Harley. Thanks for watching! F
Hey Mike, great inights. Unrelated to the subject matter, of which I mostly agree, this video would be much more enjoyable if you recorded through an Apple desktop app like QT or via your iPhone, to avoid the frequent stuck frame moments. Cheers, and hope to see you around the city. -J
Thanks, I've thought about doing that, but I need to share my screen/web browser, so I've been sticking with Streamyard. -- Mike
@@JazzBums Apple screen recording via QT Player is free and super reliable / high resolution. Hope that helps-I think your audience (picky, never satisfied audio lovers) might greatly appreciate it! :)
I thought you might have mentioned that it was necessary for RVG to somewhat narrow the sonic frequency spectrum of the tapes during mastering to accommodate the fact that most consumers were using what we would now consider today as vastly inferior turntables and tone arms. If the fuller spectrum was used on the final disc, then the danger was that the old tonearms would jump right out of the groove. So, sacrifices had to be made. That must have sucked to deal with.
@@stevecasey6126 that’s right, Joe Harley and Kevin Gray have shed some light onto this topic in their interviews. It’s a great point. Thanks for bringing this up! - Mike
Nice idea, but the comparison only works if the original is played with the right mono cartridge and the reissue with a modern stereo cartridge plus mono button.
@@Musikrama thanks, and yes, there are many limitations in this analysis. I framed this as just a fun topic to talk about, not as definitive. I hope that came across. - Mike
yes, you call it a fun comparison and do it in your usual friendly way. But the title still suggests a serious comparison and you come to a conclusion. But it is based on an incorrect playback of the original. That's not really serious for me. Nevertheless, thank you for the good entertainment!
I appreciate your level of seriousness. I get what you are saying, but it also isn't really relevant to probably 95% of the people that will watch this video. Most of our viewers don't have two turntables with different cartridges, or a single table with multiple tonearms. Even fewer will have a dedicated mono cartridge for only the records cut with a non-stereo cutting head, or the interest in determining which of the three they should choose from for a specific record.
The vast majority of people listening to these records are likely doing so with a modern stereo cartridge, with or without a mono switch. In that context this comparison works just fine. - Chris