I was a guy who declared Star Wars was dead and ruined forever after The Force Unleashed games, and it took me a long while to realize the process was basically poisoning me. Ranting wasn't getting it out of my system, but instead repeating it over and over to pump more toxins into me. The "righteous" anger and belief I knew what was best wasn't me actually attempting to look at objective quality, but it was a smoke screen for me not liking a thing and wanting to seem both right for not liking it, and smarter and better than those who did enjoy it. It was nothing more than an endless cycle of feeding myself the same bull and not wanting to get out of it. And before both The Force Awakens coming out and TFU becoming Expanded Universe, I finally realized just how badly the process was eating away at me and dropped it completely. Moments like Starkiller defeating Darth Vader, which was likely the sole reason I disliked TFU in the first place, I could just go "It happened" and enjoy the rest of Star Wars regardless. I felt all the better for it and it's expanded into a viewpoint of taking all the positives I can from a piece even if I didn't ultimately care for it, and in that case, letting it go so I wouldn't dwell on it, and instead enjoying what I enjoy. I sincerely hope the legions who fell into that same trap as me can get out of it as well. It's miserable, nothing good comes from it, and I sometimes legitimately wonder how many years from my life got shaved off from all that time alone.
And the other thing about Star Wars at this point is that it's basically impossible to make an entry with universal appeal, or that everyone will enjoy. The fanbase is just too diverse, and there's too much *stuff* in Star Wars. The rational response is to just watch\enjoy what you want to see, and let other people watch\enjoy the materials that they want to see.
To be fair, Star Wars has been RUINED FOREVER from the moment any new non-printed Star Wars media came out after the original movie. There was the Christmas Special of course, but people really didn't like Empire when it came out.
@@manjiimortal While I agree with most of what's in this subthread, I really have to point out that the "people hated Empire!" myth has been utterly debunked. FWIW, I was around back then, and I can categorically tell you, I didn't know a single person who disliked it!
Hell, the only reason he wrote down the Hobbit in the first place is because his son remembered details from his stories that he changed and kept asking why the color of Bilbo's door changed.
And when it comes to reports of the Tolkien estate 'hating' RoP, people are willfully forgetting that Christopher seemed to dislike anything that wasn't his, or his father's, work. Especially the movies by Sir PJ.
@@centurymemes1208 yep, it's easier to jump on the 'popular' bandwagon rather than form your own opinion about a topic. Especially if you want to make monetisable UA-cam content about said topic.
I love that you are always willing to state what you DON'T know. it seems more and more critics (not just on youtube) are ready to claim an opinion before they see the product.
I do prize Mr. Chipman for his honesty, even when I think he is extremely wrong. That's what separates the pros from the grifters and outrage junkies/dealers.
It amazes me how often reactionaries can find repeated rant sessions where they divine "everything wrong" with some media artifact based only upon as little as thirty-second teasers. Or one out-of-context sentence they spend hours hours of sifting through entertainment journalism about some property. I'm like: "Dude, if you can find 20 minutes of stuff to scream about from a three second shot in a thirty-second trailer - don't you think that's less actual critique of anything than it is your really predictable soapbox about your half-baked grievances?" Ironically, the half of trolls who frequent Bob's comments who aren't accusing him of human rights violations complain that Bob can't coherently articulate an opinion compared to these reactionaries, and that it all sounds like word salad to them. I see stuff like "Bob's on the take, so he's afraid to say what he really thinks" and am just amazed by the projection.
@@voltijuice8576 That last sentiment always struck me as having an undercurrent of envy. It's like they think "if I could just hook up with the people with REAL money, my life would be perfect." Any working creative (I'm a pro ghostwriter myself) will tell you that is anything but how it works. And that's before you get into the truly sheep-like mentality it takes to fall for that fantasy.
Canonically, I believe Channel 2 news had no quarrel with the Necromancer, but Ben Stiller did owe Galadriel a favor and agreed to send aid after the Eagles backed out. Moviebob has made another movie that I would totally love to see! One can dream...
@@matthewshaw5608 it's a secretion by those giant boring worms that the orcs used to travel undergroind in the War of the Five Armies. Even the orcs used it as a biological weapon and it's still a mystery as to how it was sold as a cologne...and made with imitation panther.
I love your work Bob. I stopped watching Cinema Sins for this reason. They kept trying to force themselves to find defects in everything, because it was their format and then they had to go to cartoons and I saw how locked in they were.
I stopped watching cinema sins after a couple videos when I realized they weren't funny or entertaining in the slightest and I never laughed once so why was I still watching it? To have my negative feelings about certain movies validated? That's crappy. But I do think they serve one important purpose, although inadvertently, and that's the fact that ANY movie can be nitpicked, even the ones you like. So when people are really mad about a movie and cherry pick a list of minor nitpicks as their evidence for why it's an objectively bad movie, it just means that they're really mad about something else. Usually something involving women or minorities.
Thanks for another great video, Bob. I also want to thank you for not going down the "angry reviewer" path. Your sincere, well thought out, and honest about the realities of the world content is what makes you my personal favorite reviewer/content creator on the web. Besides, your review of Godzilla, King of the Monsters was infinitely better and more entertaining than your Pixel review and is honestly one of those videos I go back and watch again when I need an emotional pick-me-up.
As a genre fan, I have taken a massive step back from the fandom space here on UA-cam because of the negativity and vitriol that has permeated movie/tv review UA-cam and I did notice that energy was coming from a certain pocket of fans, so THANK YOU for expending your capital as a person with certain intersecting identities to say what someone like me would be uncomfortable saying in such a fraught place.
It's such a terrible thing, isn't it? Folks like us go to these spaces to get the hell away from these kind of people. And now they decided to FOLLOW us here just because they want to earn a buck on verbally kicking the shit out of what we love? Eff that!
@@johnathonhaney8291 YES! Fandom is the place where I go to get away from the BS, but, as you said, it’s just followed me here and I’m so disappointed that it’s devolved into a cesspool of whining, micro aggressions, and outright hatred.
When the Pixels review broke, I had friends of mine all over Facebook who'd never even _heard_ of you before talking about it, Bob. That's when I knew that it had truly gone viral. That said, I'm glad you never went down the "Angry Reviewer" route. One of the reasons I engaged with your content (and still do) was your deep analyses of things as well as keeping true to yourself even if I don't fully agree with everything you've said over the years. I wish you nothing but the best going forward, and I hope that we'll be able to have another chat sometime. You're awesome.
calling an actor a diversity hire ,for a show you have not seen is just so mask of racist that it boggles the mind. Like why do people get mad when you point out the bad dog whistling when they keep using the same black dwarf woman for their clickbait,like their are a decent 700+hd screenshots of this show+press kit images+a decent 100 onsite film production images and they keep using this one image.
It always cracked me up how for years of TLJ rants the go-to thumbnail to encapsulate everything wrong in the world was Laura Dern as Scary Woman with Colorful Hair.
@@voltijuice8576 yesssssssssssssss,I already know a video is going to be bad when I see a lady with coloured hair or a screaming lady etc as that tells me all they will say is some variation of sjw/woke for 10+minutes.They keep using pics from 2015/2016 its like they have just actively avoided the fact that yes things are different know,because thats how time works.I am sure big red,the trump presidential confirmation lady/scream green have long since moved on with their lives and yet these gritters keep using thier pics from half /close to a decade know.Its pretty telling that the only thing they can offer is rage clicks ,s when you get down o brass taxes their is no way to measure what "woke" even is so they can never be wrong and they can always find a way to be right.
"if you're not hyped for Amazon's LotR show don't watch it" - that's where i'm at. if reviews are good, once there's actually something to review, i could be brought around... but right now? to me? it smacks of corporate committee production, like the origin for the show was an executive realizing they were sitting on some rights that weren't being exploited. that and the hobbit movies didn't exactly leave me craving more big budget live action middle earth. yeah the people actively railing against it are jack asses, but i gave up letting those guys dictate what i think or watch or care about - even just to spite them - a long time ago.
Bob thanks for staying true to yourself and your morals when you had a chance to go in another direction back then. Your videos are entertaining and informative
Thank you for not becoming that Angry Guy character. What I love is the analysis and the thoughtful critique. I know there aren't enough of us out there or else you'd probably have millions of views all the time. Otherwise, I'm mildly interested in the Rings of Power, and mostly just waiting to check it out and hoping it's good. I'm mostly just hoping that season 2 of Wheel of Time really knocks it out of the ballpark as season one has me sort of on the fence. Though I was generally happy with all the casting, just not with all the story changes.
The final trailer was the one that finally tickled my nose on Rings Of Power. As Mr. Chipman said, it has a real GOT feel and feels more well thought-out than the actual GOT spinoff (which Mr. Chipman has rightly called "Tits And Dragons").
Thank you for the insight into the industry of hate baiting and for sticking to your guns and being honest and authentic. It's why I've been a fan of yours for years and I know it sucks that you haven't seen the success that you deserve but know that there is at least one person (me) who appreciates your authenticity.
Imagine simping for a genocidal man child with the production abilities of a middle school AV club, and the writing skills of a community college student in remedial English.
I dig the new format! Feels like the right balance between a scripted visual essay and a loose conversation. You’re talking off the cuff but not so much that you wind up talking in circles like some others. You’ve got talking points to keep you moving in a direction.
For the record, Bob, I know I watch you because we come from similar backgrounds, have similar ages, and similar sensibilities, so I know I can usually trust your opinions on stuff. Glad you didn't sell out to faux outrage.
I'm pretty sure I don't share a similar background to Bob. Different gender, minority, etc. But I listen to Bob's opinions because he seems open minded to experiences outside his own and doesn't get swept up in outrage. Like when people were saying Eternals was a terrible movie, Bob's review was nuanced. I went and saw it and had a good time. And it's been a movie for me that gets better with rewatches.
fake outrages and using the old sjw and woke stuff excuse is ridiculous. honestly these channels become the sjw and woke they keep making videos from. annoying, pessimistic and one liners.
@@vanessac8193 I freaking LOVE Eternals! It was the first movie in a while that genuinely served up some surprises on its developments, something I hadn't seen in a superhero film in a while.
Thanks Bob. I appreciate you giving us some unvarnished truth. I’ve learned that pretty much anyone that uses the word “Woke” as a pejorative term isn’t worth listening to at all. They have no original ideas & they are completely unwilling to engage in actual discourse. Keep up the good work!
I've recently unsubscribed from a few channels because they've slipped into complaining about wokeness in media. I'm not sure why a video about the upcoming Godzilla series needs a 5 minute sidebar about 'woke casting', but here we are.
Some of them do make decent points. Inserting contemporary issues into an ageless Fairy Tale like Lord of the Rings does seem like a bad idea. Not because "woke bad" but because it just does not fit with the story.
@@ieuanhunt552 perhaps, but pretending that gender issues, for instance, were non-existant at any time before the mid 20th century only reinforces a 'good old days' narrative that many bad actors like to jump on.
@@AndrewMcColl And hammering the square peg of social commentary into the round hole that is LOTOR just muddles the story and pisses off Tolkien purists
Keep this up, so much happier watching a reviewer actually most concerned with doing their job and reviewing stuff, giving an honest opinion rather than angry, shouting click bait. Your authenticity is why I still watch your stuff after almost 15 years.
I saw the term "manufactroversy" on Pajiba and it sums up a lot of what you are rightly calling out. That and just plain ol' racism and misogyny. No one in their right mind would spend a second being upset about the skin color of a fantasy character. Unless they thought they could profit from it.
I was so depressed to see the level of weirdness, gatekeeping, and general toxicity that seemed reserved for Marvel DC, and Star Wars, had infected the Tolkien fandom. I guess it's the 2020's, and everything has to suck. . .
Yes it Gatekeeping when the people don’t want the left’s nonsense but it totally fine to alienate and keep out anyone who point out how the changes goes again what has been established before and are the real fans
I get the sense more and more that we may be closing in on their last hurrah. Mr. Chipman wisely pointed out their lack of talent, which also means lack of flexibility. Concordantly, that also means they only make the money for as long as they are tolerated. That tolerance is getting shorter by the day from what I've seen.
@@johnathonhaney8291 "I get the sense more and more that we may be closing in on their last hurrah" i'm not sure. right-wing parties are trending upwards in popularity all over europe and this kind of misogyny, homo- and xenophobia are just the bread and butter of that movement :(
@@pizdamatii5001 Depends on where you're at...but my corner of the mainstream is increasingly done with these people in their current configuration. They are not smart, useful or otherwise able to bring anything to the table that would justify their inclusion.
Anyone nitpicking on this series over the inclusion of black dwarves in a fantasy series.... really needs to ask why they're actually doing so. Nitpick on it if you've seen it and it's legitimately dire, not because you dislike the choice of actor based on skin colour (even though (maybe) the lore contradicts the idea of black dwarves.... neither here nor there, really). Bang up job here, Bob.
I think they know. They make a lot of excuses for why it has nothing to do with racism in an attempt to convince us, but they know how they really feel. It's always a performance. It's like when the Force Awakens trailed dropped, and there was outrage over a black stormtrooper, but they pretended that it was just because "stormtroopers can't be black cause they're clones". They thought that was such an ironclad excuse for their anger. But any real Star Wars nerd would know that they stopped using clone troopers after order 66, so either they knew that was a lie and pushed it anyway to hide their racism, or they aren't real Star Wars fans and would have no reason to care about such a minor inaccuracy unless they were racist.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way." - Jean-Luc Picard
Over on Twitter there is a discussion on the charges in Sandman ( yes of course people’s skin colour ) The person I was in correspondence with straight up said “ you haven’t lived until you feel angry “. That’s beyond used to, that’s addiction.
@@francesconicoletti2547 Yeah, spoken like a true addict, that quote. As to Sandman....I mean, shit, is the fact that the guy who came up with it, NEIL F>>>ING GAIMAN, spent 30 years making this was good count for anything?!
When I first heard that they were going to compress the major events of the Second Age from "The Silmarillion" into a time period of like 100 years or so, I was pretty skeptical. But the more I thought about, the more I realized that was the only way it could work as a tv show. Because the events of the Second Age cover almost 3,500 years of time, but only like 50 of those years have anything narratively exciting going on. The first 1600 years is just Numenor being founded then just kind of...existing for a while. Then Sauron tricks an elf smith into forging the rings and attacks, and starts a war that lasts for a decade or two before he's defeated. Then Numenor spends another 1500 years or so just kind of existing, though this time as a xenophobic, imperialist power. Then Sauron shows up again, the Numenoreans have some dealings with him, and like 10 years later Numenor is destroyed. That's almost 3100 years of jack-shit going on. I'm not watching that, that's fucking boring.
Time skips are a thing I wish they had considered. Very risky to do but as it is based on Tolkien's work I think most people would be on board for a risk. As it is, the viewers who don't know probably won't even realise that the story's timeline has been truncated.
Okay I love the Silmarillion and it's actually one of my favorite stories of all time. That being said, I don't give a flying fuck about the skin tone of the characters or who they cast. I know my LOTR mythos front to back and somehow I don't really care if they adapt/change things within it. I care about good writing, not the tiny details. All of this is to say, Moviebob is right, as usual.
@@nathnaeltsegaw7263 Granted, making Galadriel some sort of warrior princess makes about as much sense to me as Shadow of War having made Shelob into an attractive seductress. And from what little I've seen of the show, it is a really bizarre choise to try and spin Lady of Lothlorien, one of the most powerful and widely respected elven rulers of Middle Earth into an underdog heroine, who'd struggle to get through to others. I'm sure you could make that sort of character and story work within Tolkien's world, but Galadriel is absolutely the wrong character for it.
Fun fact: jacksons films got the same reaction back in the day. There’s a reddit thread that documents it all. And its just as homophobic and sexist as you think it is.
Do you happen to have a link to that Reddit thread? I would _love_ to have that in my back pocket. I searched for it, but all I'm finding are articles about Christopher Tolkien's impression of the trilogy.
"Back in the day"? Come on. It wasn't that long ago. What, maybe 8 ywars ago fellowship came iut? *googles * Fellowship of the Ring original release date Dec 19 2001 ............excuse me while i quietly turn to dust over here.
@@jasonblalock4429 And Faramir having an actual arc instead of being a boring goody two shoes. They complained about literally every little thing. Then as always, whens its good they get silenced. Recently this happened with sandman and prey.
The reactionary rage of the nerd-o-sphere is actually embarrassing, as in "you do not want to be associated with those people" embarrassing. People get paid to do that? Can't you just dance a chip-and-dales? spare your dignity?
In a lot of ways, it's going to be worse than that. What they're doing is a bubble. When it pops, every screed they posted will be preserved for posterity. The Internet forgets NOTHING.
Just wanted to say that I always enjoy and appreciate your commentary on things as well as the reviews you do. You're one of the few creators in this space that I still watch because it feels like sitting down with a buddy and having a discussion about stuff we're passionate about rather than feeling like I've stumbled into a hate rally. The other aspect to all of this is youtube itself, it only takes me one click on a video to fill my feed with similar crap but I have to actively click out of it/say I don't like a thing to get them to stop showing me more of it. It's gross and has made me stop looking for new voices because of the alt right think tank minefield. I just want to watch a person talk about nerdy shit I care about for 10-20 minutes at a time and then go about my day, not dodge being onboarded into the hait bait economy. So thank you for all you do Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
He actually kind of did in his lifetime during the first wave of fandom during the 1960s. People went overboard with marriage ceremonies, names and lifestyles based on the books and he was like "Wha?"
I mean LOTR is Norse/Anglish mythological fan fic with some victorian gentleman sprinkled concepts for Pete's sake, it is well-researched fanfic but still...
As someone else who was courted to be a clown and essentially mortgage my sincerity for an audience, you made the right call. Not only does it limit your mind and eat at your soul, it's fucking exhausting to have to do the routine. I won't hand the hateful clowns of the world much, but one thing I will say is that they've got stamina. It's a shame that's all they really have though.
They don't have stamina though. As someone who was once going down that path myself, stamina isn't what drives you. It's uncritical self-righteousness. And *that* is an infinitely-renewable resource. To say that I "grew out of it" would imply that I was not a grown-ass adult when I started it, and I was, so that wasn't really what happened. What happened was that I stepped back and found that it was actively hurting my ability to *enjoy things.* When you're watching some media for the purpose of finding some reason to dunk on it, you're not actually able to enjoy it. If you're analyzing every sentence for plot holes or incongruities or whatever, you're not actually enjoying the work. That, and watching good media criticism, helped cure me of this habit. But the same self-righteousness that led me into that domain also is what drives these people. Couple that with bad ideology (the one often leads to the other), and you get these guys.
@@GeneralBolas I still see that as stamina I suppose. Regardless of what fuel is burning the engine, it's still an engine that's capable of taking the burn. That's a really interesting framing though and not what I ever considered because after my first round of serious burnout I realized I didn't want to live my small, unimportant life that way. Thank you. Truly. You have provided me with insight I would not have otherwise arrived at. And I do think you're right. I think you're more right than I am.
2:00 I'm not angry about that. I'm annoyed that the girl dwarves aren't rocking facial hair. Not into Rings of Power. Sandman? I'm rewatching it because it's Sandman.
“If you’re mad about black dwarves, please get a fucking life” is the most succinct stance I’ve come across in all this bullshit “controversy” that I fully endorse.
I'm got to be honest, I'm not really enjoying the "off the cuff" format for Big Picture. I completely understand that it's temporary and it's not even that big a deal. I'm just saying that personally I feel Big Picture should have a script.
You'd need a good visual-oriented director to make that work, I think. I know Mr. Chipman would bring up Zack Snyder (eff him) but maybe someone like Guillermo Del Toro would work better?
If at any point I were to suffer a head injury severe enough to cause me to engage in good faith with someone who was angry about dwarves played by black people, I'd point out that dwarves were a race created by a secondary creator-being in Middle-Earth, and as such there's really no reason to think their genetics might be different somehow. Like, their creator-god could well have just made 'em in a few different shades just because he could. But people being performatively angry about casting choices on the internet are not usually worth the time.
Having not seen it, the show could be the most tedious, trite, contrived, corporatized thing ever, and I'd still be inclined to be nice to it just because it'll piss off weird rightoid incels on the internet who get their fee fees hurt every time there's a black woman in a Star Wars thing.
When corporations engage in tokenized race swapping of characters in shows or movies they aren’t the good guys. It’s just a cop out that lets them get away with not investing money into shows and movies written by and starring minorities. In other words they want to take established IPs full of white people, race swap, and then be praised like they are brave. Honestly, tokenized race swapping is just kind of slimy.
At this point though corporations know they can get right wing nutjobs to throw a fit AND that them throwing a fit is essentially free advertisement getting normal people to feel like buying a product is taking some sort of progressive stand. like, remember when m&ms got that fox news jerk to throw a fit over a cartoon mascot redesign that was so subtle that no one would have cared or noticed otherwise, to get people to feel like buying candy was a progressive statement even though the chocolate is farmed by slave labor on bulldozed rainforest land? How many times have we seen this cycle? coffe machines, razors, sneakers, candy, streamins services - like fuck alt right bastards, it's good that they're unhappy, but that doesn't make corporations your friend. There are a million meaningful stands you can take against fascism. buying a cynical cash grab corporate product is not one of them, no matter how loud they get the terminally online pissbabies to cry over it. If the show is good, sure, watch it, but so far to me all signs point to a soulless board room production motivated by some executive realizing they had ip rights they weren't exploiting, not something that exists because anybody actually had a story they wanted to tell. Even with a diverse and talented cast, it's hard to overcome such a shallow and cynical origin.
Thank you for this video, the hate this show is getting because of black elves and dwarves is ridiculous. How they keep making the same video over and over is beyond me.
It's getting hate because it's f-ing with the Lore. Sauron and Galadriel never met, and there's an established reason why. And there's more rubbish changes to the mythos mo one asked for.
@@V4Now Hey buddy, the silmarilion didn't go anywhere. if it's messing with you, go read that and leave the show alone. Nobody's got a gun to your head.
@@V4Now Yeah from what I've heard there's a lot more people take issue with than f*** wokeness. That being said those who do take issue with that are pieces of shit.
And they aren't even adapting the Silmarillion. They only have the TV rights to Hobbit and LOTR. They literally *cannot* directly adapt anything in the Sil or the Tolkien estate would come after them. So everything else has to be made up. That's just the reality here. It will NOT adhere to the Silmarillion or any of Tolkein's other writings.
Even for the hypothetical people who aren’t trying to Trojan horse a racist argument in under the smokescreen of fan outrage, and are genuinely concerned for the “realism of the depiction of elves”, I hate to break it to you guys, but elves aren’t real. They can be green with pink polka dots for all it matters and they wouldn’t be any less “real”.
Good review. My initial reaction was 'they're adapting the Silmarillion? That doesn't seem possible" and I've been skipping ads ever since. With your description of what the show appears to be about, I think I'll give it a shot - sound more up my alley (I also love me some dwarfs, so that would be fun). I'm also glad you included a retrospective on your Pixels review as part of your analysis of the discourse (such as it is), because I first came to you via a recommendation to check out your Pixel review, but I stayed for your other (more enjoyable to me) content, like Schlocktober and your lore dives to help make new comic-book movies more accessible to me. I enjoy your content, far more than if you had joined the hate-watch sub-species of reviewer, and I'm glad you're doing it, even if it would have been more profitable to scream inventive profanities instead. Glad to be watching.
I was introduced to your channel through your Pixels review years ago but upon exploring your channel it was your "Really That Good" series that I enjoyed the most. It got me interested in your content and seeing your perspective on things. There are times when I'll see a movie and afterwards think "I wonder what Bob thinks of this one". Our tastes vary a bit but agree or disagree I love hearing your honest opinions. Glad you stuck with doing things the way you do.
I read the back blurb of Silmarilion in the school library. When it said it was about the events before Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, I decided I should read it before reading those. That was... not a good idea. On the escapist site, there was a dude screaming about this show and if we were going to change the Bible next to have non-binary angels. I couldn't resist pointing out Christian tradition already has angels be neither male or female.
For one, glad you didn't chase that negativity. Being a neutral or even positive voice in a landscape of negativity is a welcome sight. I find it funny that you even went on to do an Adam Sandler Really That Good episode, and I hope, once things begin to lock in with the new formats, we can see a return of that series.
If you look at his most popular videos on here, his second most viewed video that has almost as many views as the Pixels review is the Really That Good Spiderman 1 & 2 video, and I think that's really cool cause it's the exact opposite of the Pixels video, an entirely positive one. It shows that you don't always have to go negative to get widespread attention.
When it comes to the black dwarfs or anything like that I'm reminded of a line from Epic Rap Battles Tolkien vs George rr Martin 🎶 news flash the genre's called fantasy, it's meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee 🎶
Screw the pedigree. This stuff is held up on way too high a pedestal, Tolkien was an okay writer that only ever got it right twice and half of what he wrote is ripped straight out of Beowulf, King Arthur and the Norse Sagas. Literally every Dwarf and Elf's name in this series is ripped straight from the Norse creation myth, if you honestly think, "Oh Black Dwarfs, more women? That's not LoTR"! LoTR isn't LoTR, get over it.
I mean... I think there is one, exactly one group of people who are allowed to get pissy about the lore being altered (other than the Tolkein estate I suppose) and that would be the *actual* Tolkein scholars who've built actual academic careers (or parts of careers) out of studying and analysing Tolkein's life and works (fiction *and* non-fiction) - some of those guys cried foul over Tom Bombadil being omitted from the LoTR films and so atleast they'd be being consistent. Of course, others didn't, and instead welcomed the additions, and still others once apparently spent six hours, at an academic conference on Tolkein, earnestly debating whether bees existed in Middle Earth, until someone pointed out that mead halls did in Rohan, therefore honey did, therefore bees did (just to flag up what sort of people we're talking about here). But yeah, otherwise, who cares?
18:26 thanks for not chasing the anger review routine i think i liked that for some stuff but not all of it the anger felt like a really good emotional catharsis for something that didn't look good to me but i saw your other stuff and what you had to say on that, I liked that even better and with each video i always feel like i'm learning something
But isn’t he doing the same kind of anger and discussed but in the reverse? It’s not like he talked His anticipation of the show. The kinds of things you would like to see your perhaps not like to see what direction he may have one in the show to go in. Perhaps he could’ve discussed more if any of his opinion on the trailers? Or better yet why not just wait till it’s out and review it at that point? He did this video because this is what his viewers like to hear. I’m sure you noticed many of his videos are very politically charged always ensuring that the wrong type of people get put in their place. You really haven’t noticed this is his routine?
thankyou for this video,the haters/bigots using nerd culture to attack people is truly sickening,i was bullied for being a nerd in the 70s/80s and the thought that those same people doing the bullying are now using the things i love to attack marginalised people turns my stomach,i try to confront everywhere i find it,the best recent response to it has occured in he Sandman forums/sites with the idiots trying to stir up the usual hate over castings,not only has the fandom shot them down in flames but Neil Gaiman himself has taken many of them to task over comments made
Same situation, though I'm a little younger than you. Those idiots attacking Sandman is only slightly less hilarious than their attacks on a favorite contemporary IP of the same period of mine, Vampire The Masquerade. In both cases, those worlds pioneered EVERYTHING those dummies hated on.
Coming from a black guy here, but this wouldn't be a thing if "whitewashing" weren't also a thing... you really can't have it both ways...that being said, diversity isn't bad, but diversity for the sake of such irrespective of the source material is shortsighted at best and pandering at worst...
You actually CAN have it both ways; casting traditionally underrepresented POC into 'normally white' roles shifts the cultural zeitgeist into having representation for said POC not be unusual, while casting YT in roles that would normally be characterized by POC only reinforces the already dominant white/minority dynamic that the majority of media is still encapsulated by. So long as people still view any non-white person being cast as a character that has been portrayed by a white actor in the past as being 'politically motivated' or 'diversity for diversity's sake,' then the dynamic still hasn't shifted and actors of color are still being viewed as the outlier rather than the norm.
@@gc6185 it... really doesn't do all that... all it does is pander and turn entertainment into a political statement... there are 8 billion people in the planet, we can't expect that every iteration of humanity be represented... this black elf thing and other things like it wouldn't even be an issue of it stopped being looked at as some brave turn of the zeitgeist... nick fury is black now and no one is protesting it because it was a creative decision, not a political one...
This is always the cop out used for completely disrespecting source material for political purposes, and it’s kind of obnoxious. Would the same logic hold up in your mind if the next Black Panther has white Wakandans? I’m sure some people are just racist and hate race-swapping in LotR just because they hate non-white people, but the reality is many of us have no problem with people of color, we have a problem with the properties we love being bastardized for the sake of a political agenda. Personally, I’m firmly in the position of supporting shows and movies being created that organically and naturally feature people of color (Black Panther and Shang-Chi were both pretty good for instance). Tokenized race swapping is not a viable replacement for that. It’s quite the opposite.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 First of all, I don't even care for Black Panther. Secondly, it's make believe like Bob said. I have a general understanding of the Rings lore, but that's because I've seen the movies. I have so much other stuff going on in life outside of obsessing over fantasy stuff. If Black Panther had white Wakandans, I wouldn't care. I didn't even bother to make sure I spelled Wakandans right, because it's not real.
Was it Elden Ring that people were getting equally upset about because it allowed for character creation that could create authentic PoC? Of course, people correctly pointed out that there were *blue-skinned* characters in the game, which those same critics were just fine with...
@@wespapes2054 If true, at least you’re consistent. I can assure you MANY people would lose their minds if that happened though, and all the people in the media who love to throw around accusations of racism and bigotry over discontent over the race-swapping of white characters would have very different takes on the matter. As far as your take of “it’s not real, so who cares?” goes, speculative fiction needs some kind of verisimilitude for people to buy into it. If you just create fantasy that has no internal logic and no verisimilitude most people will see it for what it is: incoherent nonsense rather than a coherent fantasy story. Now if someone wants to do that with their original fantasy material, literally no one will care. When people do that with the most storied and beloved fantasy setting of all time, naturally a lot of people will not like it. Not liking it does not equate to being a racist or a bigot, despite what Bob and other media morons claim.
I originally wanted nothing to do with this series, not because of the inclusion of POC or women, or anything; it was because of a then backpeddaled article stating that they wanted the show to be like Game of Thrones complete with graphic violence and nudity. Me not being a fan of Game Of Thrones, I wanted NOTHING to do with something trying to be a successor to it. Thankfully they clarified that this will (hopefully) not be the case and I’m excited again.
I want a ancient Norse fantasy series where dwarfs and elves are the same thing, and gods giants , humans and dwarfs are all the same size. Just to demonstrate how much Tolkien made up.
Dwarves and elves not really having THAT many meaningful distinctions between them as they're both kinda 'non-human magical beings' except ( dwarves live underground and elves are mostly associated with woods and fields and whatnot), that I've heard. But were dwarves really not supershort, like tiny little people, in the myths? I genuinely don't know if Tolkien made that up or if at least some old legends say they're tiny.
Sometimes you have to engage them because people were mad that Black soldiers are over represented in the Battlefield game set in ww1 but arnt mad Black American Soldiers are under represented in a lot of military games
One of the best Big Pictures yet! (On a feedback note, I paid attention to you way more than the stock faces on the left... almost forgot they were there till the end when you started talking format.)
Yeah, that dumb "It is based on mythology thing": Most of it is Norse mythology.Which had nine realms. One of those was literally Svartalvheim. Oh, sorry, let me translate that for those guys: "Home of the black elves!" Norse mythology includes a whole damn planet of black elves! I am fairly certain Norse mythology had black dwarves, too.
I don't like the changes to the lore regarding galadriel, couldn't care less about the dwarfs being black because, as Bob said, who cares. My solution to my dislike of the lore changes? Either do or don't watch it. That's it. It makes no difference to me either way. It's literally harming no one, it doesn't change Tolkien's original text. Who cares? If i do decide to watch it, it'll be despite my dislike of any lore changes and as such I'll just judge it on its own merits as a show. If I enjoy it, great. If I don't enjoy it, I just won't watch it again. I honestly don't understand why people are so mad, even as someone who doesn't like it when people mess around with established Tolkien lore lol
A quote from Churchill: "The empires of the future will be the empires of the mind." THAT'S the territory those idiots want to conquer. They never stood a chance.
Agreed. Race swapping? Whatever, I know it's supposed to be a white euro blah blah blah- if they're good actors, with good material, fine. There is more merit to the cavalier retakes on established characters? Like Galadriel? Or we want hobbits, but can't have hobbits? That's what's making this NOT LoTR. I don't get too mad, over that stuff, cuz Jackson already miffed the Hobbit movie(s) so bad, it's already been tarnished imo. Don't like it? Ms Marvell it.
The Pixels review is actually one of the reasons I put a lot of trust in moviebob reviews and regularly go out to see movies that were otherwise not on my radar based on said reviews. After the success of that video, seeing the channel NOT turn into a string of scathing reviews to farm clicks demonstrated a lot of integrity as both a critic and a content creator.
I honestly hadn't paid that much attention to the development, not even sure I watched the trailers for this. But I like the first three LOTR movies well enough to have named two dogs after characters in them, so I guess I'll give it a shot for Strider and Arwen's sakes.
I'm really happy you didn't chase that Pixels high. Maybe it hasn't gotten you as many views, but I treasure your Really That Good series far more than any 'outraged' review or CinemaSins style takedown.
I’m so glad Bob got the Flashpoint episode finished only for Zaslav to respond “oh you thought canceling Batgirl was creator unfriendly and stupid? Wait til you see what I’m doing next”
I've been a fan of your for years precisely because you are not one of those rage bait-y "critics" and because we usually have the same or similar taste in movies. Good luck with all the changes, can't wait to see what the future holds!
I blame copyright law for the excessive attachment to lore and canon that exists these days. I mean, we don't really see this sort of fervor regarding Sherlock Holmes stories now, do we? If things went into the public domain like they did before Disney got it changed, then we'd have bucketloads of people making LotR adaptations of all kinds, and the people who complain about this or that lore piece or canon change would be able to enjoy the version of the story that caters to them. Same is true for Star Wars, Star Trek, etc. On the other hand, if those things went into the public domain they'd probably be less profitable for their particular owner, so we'll likely never see such a change to the law, as long as those in power remain in power.
Thank you for staying authentic. And for knowing yourself well enough to know that you can't fake it (which, let's be real, is definitely a talent that some people possess and I am kind of jealous of them). Your analysis opens up new pathways in brain and I'm a richer media-liker for it.
THANK. YOU. (Or, as a certain channels' thumbnails would put it, "Bob FINALLY takes on youtube critic culture!") Also, a Steve Shives vid drops at almost the exact same time, criticizing "woke panic"...It's Christmas!
Personally, I would love to see a CG-animated adaptation of the stories of the Silmarillion, whether as an OVA or direct to streaming...Is there any solid reason such a thing could never happen?
The narrative prevents it. the could do certain parts like the lay of leithian (Beren and Luthien) or the story of Turin Turumbar perhaps but the rest of the stories are fragmented.
@@IamVerilance I would argue the fragmented nature of those stories would make it easier. I'm not talking about making an anime series, I'm talking about anime shorts where each one is made by a different studio (again like Star Wars and Halo Legends).
I discovered you because of the intensity of your Pixels review and I have to say repeating that would have gotten old and I really, really appreciate the genuine reviews you actually provide. You're at the top of my "go-to" reviewers and I wish you continued success while I stay along for the ride.
I am glad you're in my subscriptions, Bob. Personally, I think the ethnic and authorial issues at play around this show are more nuanced than just an accusation of racism, but I appreciated you reminding me that it's just a book, and this is just a TV show, and no one has to watch it. Thank you for being a centrist for us.
Either the show is a huge success which embarrass all these screaming idiots or it's a huge failure in which case Amazon looses a ton of money. It's a win-win.
Sadly I dont think so. It could pull in Games of Thrones numbers and reviews (the good ones anyway) and they'll just declare the reviews paid for and the viewing numbers fake. Just like when they said Disney were buying all the seats and showing captain marvel to empty theatres to boost numbers. "Hey I guess I was wrong about this" isnt in their vocabulary
@@shoutingstone But was that really a win for them on Captain Marvel, though? They're the only ones who still even talk about that film now (I found it chill and kind of fun personally) and Marvel Studios learned to use them as unwitting free publicity engines. So they remain cogs in the machine they're railing against. Stay Asleep, Stay A Sheep.
The time comes eventually where you learn that not everything is for you and that's okay, They might take the thing you love and change it a lot, but the one you love still exists. If you want the same thing over and over you might have to look inward because that might be you unable to let go of the past. New takes can be exciting!, and if you refuse to let something change than it will die. Like incasing your pet in Lucite, yeah they'll be there forever but they wont get to grow and change.
I take the nerd stuff and organized religion both very seriously. But just like religion, so too the nerd stuff should be allowed to change over time in response to our changing understandings. As famed Unitarian minister Theodore Parker (whom both Lincoln and MLK Jr have quoted) said in "The Transient and the Permanent in Christianity," we must always strike a balance between preserving the heart of the thing we love (whether religion or nerd stuff) and allowing the format in which it's presented to change. Does casting a Black actor to play a dwarf or an elf change the heart of LOTR? Um, no, not unless one thinks that the heart of LOTR is its whiteness, which... yikes.
Lord of the rings and The Lion the witch and the wardrobe are both very special books to me, but nothing anyone adapts in those stories affects the book
I don’t think they’re acting as much as they’re intentionally working themselves up and making themselves angry. And I think the response isn’t necessarily about views as much as about engagement, they thrive on other people agreeing with them and feeling validated, and they tapped into unharvested anger to get it,
I'm the kind of weirdo that loves Tolkien's unfinished works more than Hobbit and LotR. Might be because it reminds me of studying Sumer and Akkad, broken bits of info that are so interesting. I like to think that much of Tolkien's lore was influenced by what was being discovered up until that time. Remember, around the mid 1800s researchers manage to translate Sumerian/Akkadian cuneiform and there was a huge boom in anthropology/archeology/linguistic interest throughout the early 1900. The idea of Quenya elvish being cuneiform, the end of the war with Morgoth being the fall of Akkad or the bronze age collapse.
I remember when, one or two videos after the Pixels thing (from which I first heard of you), you said "I know a lot of y'all are here to hear me tear into this one with creative vulgarity and precision plot dissection" and that made me realize "yeh, that's why I'm here" but it also made me realize that that doesn't need to be the baseline for movie reviews. And don't get me wrong I know the Pixels review (and some of the other videos from that era) word for word, sort of a party trick of mine hahaha I really enjoy those, but that opened me to the whole theme of your work, for which I am now really thankful. Really That Good was a game changer for me, as was Shclocktober and a lot of episodes from this series. So whomever might not understand a work of passion as yours when they see it, that's just their loss. Thanks, Bob. p.s. my favourite line of yours is "why in the piss drenched bowels of lowest hell would Khaleesi and the Governator need to build a fucking time machine?" Gold.
Because now I've gone through the entire video and not just commenting so I don't forget to... I appreciate your artistic and journalistic integrity. I live pretty hand to mouth many years so I can't always be a patreon supporter. But, I will continue to consume your content and recommend it. You live on the top shelf of my content along with LRR and similar groups that when a new video comes out I immediately gravitate to it.
To be fair you should take Heaven and Hell seriously. It is Black Sabbath's best album.
I would have went with Vangelis, but the principle's the same!
It is indeed their best album but it's pretty goofy. I absolutely love it but it's not serious.
Dio era sabbath deserves more respect
This is a quality response. No notes.
I think Heaven And Hell, I think either the lying BS Southern Baptists pushed on me or Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here". But that's me!
I was a guy who declared Star Wars was dead and ruined forever after The Force Unleashed games, and it took me a long while to realize the process was basically poisoning me. Ranting wasn't getting it out of my system, but instead repeating it over and over to pump more toxins into me. The "righteous" anger and belief I knew what was best wasn't me actually attempting to look at objective quality, but it was a smoke screen for me not liking a thing and wanting to seem both right for not liking it, and smarter and better than those who did enjoy it. It was nothing more than an endless cycle of feeding myself the same bull and not wanting to get out of it.
And before both The Force Awakens coming out and TFU becoming Expanded Universe, I finally realized just how badly the process was eating away at me and dropped it completely. Moments like Starkiller defeating Darth Vader, which was likely the sole reason I disliked TFU in the first place, I could just go "It happened" and enjoy the rest of Star Wars regardless. I felt all the better for it and it's expanded into a viewpoint of taking all the positives I can from a piece even if I didn't ultimately care for it, and in that case, letting it go so I wouldn't dwell on it, and instead enjoying what I enjoy.
I sincerely hope the legions who fell into that same trap as me can get out of it as well. It's miserable, nothing good comes from it, and I sometimes legitimately wonder how many years from my life got shaved off from all that time alone.
Yes righteous indignation is addictive and a core source of many intractable issues nowadays.
And the other thing about Star Wars at this point is that it's basically impossible to make an entry with universal appeal, or that everyone will enjoy. The fanbase is just too diverse, and there's too much *stuff* in Star Wars. The rational response is to just watch\enjoy what you want to see, and let other people watch\enjoy the materials that they want to see.
thanks for your testimony.
needed to hear that to keep in mind.
To be fair, Star Wars has been RUINED FOREVER from the moment any new non-printed Star Wars media came out after the original movie.
There was the Christmas Special of course, but people really didn't like Empire when it came out.
@@manjiimortal While I agree with most of what's in this subthread, I really have to point out that the "people hated Empire!" myth has been utterly debunked. FWIW, I was around back then, and I can categorically tell you, I didn't know a single person who disliked it!
Also, Tolkien was constantly rewriting his own canon so much that his son gathered twelve whole books of his draft notes.
Hell, the only reason he wrote down the Hobbit in the first place is because his son remembered details from his stories that he changed and kept asking why the color of Bilbo's door changed.
Gollum started as a fun-loving eccentric who gives Bilbo the ring as a reward for winning their contest.
And when it comes to reports of the Tolkien estate 'hating' RoP, people are willfully forgetting that Christopher seemed to dislike anything that wasn't his, or his father's, work. Especially the movies by Sir PJ.
@@AndrewMcColl people nowadays follow others opinion rather theirs
@@centurymemes1208 yep, it's easier to jump on the 'popular' bandwagon rather than form your own opinion about a topic. Especially if you want to make monetisable UA-cam content about said topic.
I love that you are always willing to state what you DON'T know. it seems more and more critics (not just on youtube) are ready to claim an opinion before they see the product.
I do prize Mr. Chipman for his honesty, even when I think he is extremely wrong. That's what separates the pros from the grifters and outrage junkies/dealers.
Having an opinion on something before you see it is the whole antithesis of a Critic.
It amazes me how often reactionaries can find repeated rant sessions where they divine "everything wrong" with some media artifact based only upon as little as thirty-second teasers. Or one out-of-context sentence they spend hours hours of sifting through entertainment journalism about some property.
I'm like: "Dude, if you can find 20 minutes of stuff to scream about from a three second shot in a thirty-second trailer - don't you think that's less actual critique of anything than it is your really predictable soapbox about your half-baked grievances?"
Ironically, the half of trolls who frequent Bob's comments who aren't accusing him of human rights violations complain that Bob can't coherently articulate an opinion compared to these reactionaries, and that it all sounds like word salad to them. I see stuff like "Bob's on the take, so he's afraid to say what he really thinks" and am just amazed by the projection.
@@voltijuice8576 That last sentiment always struck me as having an undercurrent of envy. It's like they think "if I could just hook up with the people with REAL money, my life would be perfect." Any working creative (I'm a pro ghostwriter myself) will tell you that is anything but how it works. And that's before you get into the truly sheep-like mentality it takes to fall for that fantasy.
Canonically, I believe Channel 2 news had no quarrel with the Necromancer, but Ben Stiller did owe Galadriel a favor and agreed to send aid after the Eagles backed out. Moviebob has made another movie that I would totally love to see! One can dream...
I'm morbidly curious, how does Sex Panther fit into this version? 😆
@@matthewshaw5608 it's a secretion by those giant boring worms that the orcs used to travel undergroind in the War of the Five Armies. Even the orcs used it as a biological weapon and it's still a mystery as to how it was sold as a cologne...and made with imitation panther.
I love your work Bob. I stopped watching Cinema Sins for this reason. They kept trying to force themselves to find defects in everything, because it was their format and then they had to go to cartoons and I saw how locked in they were.
I stopped watching cinema sins after a couple videos when I realized they weren't funny or entertaining in the slightest and I never laughed once so why was I still watching it? To have my negative feelings about certain movies validated? That's crappy.
But I do think they serve one important purpose, although inadvertently, and that's the fact that ANY movie can be nitpicked, even the ones you like. So when people are really mad about a movie and cherry pick a list of minor nitpicks as their evidence for why it's an objectively bad movie, it just means that they're really mad about something else. Usually something involving women or minorities.
Go watch Cinema Wins instead. It's actually refreshing to hear someone say nice things about movies that are generally considered to be bad.
@@redinfernal_ I love Cinema Wins! I follow them for a long time, they have amazing insights into the movies
@@FranciscoAreasGuimaraes such a good channel, and the host presents it so well
@@redinfernal_ Yeah, he's really great. He even made me see that there are good parts in the SW prequels. I also love his episode on Home Alone
Thanks for another great video, Bob. I also want to thank you for not going down the "angry reviewer" path. Your sincere, well thought out, and honest about the realities of the world content is what makes you my personal favorite reviewer/content creator on the web. Besides, your review of Godzilla, King of the Monsters was infinitely better and more entertaining than your Pixel review and is honestly one of those videos I go back and watch again when I need an emotional pick-me-up.
As a genre fan, I have taken a massive step back from the fandom space here on UA-cam because of the negativity and vitriol that has permeated movie/tv review UA-cam and I did notice that energy was coming from a certain pocket of fans, so THANK YOU for expending your capital as a person with certain intersecting identities to say what someone like me would be uncomfortable saying in such a fraught place.
It's such a terrible thing, isn't it? Folks like us go to these spaces to get the hell away from these kind of people. And now they decided to FOLLOW us here just because they want to earn a buck on verbally kicking the shit out of what we love? Eff that!
@@johnathonhaney8291 YES! Fandom is the place where I go to get away from the BS, but, as you said, it’s just followed me here and I’m so disappointed that it’s devolved into a cesspool of whining, micro aggressions, and outright hatred.
Wise
When the Pixels review broke, I had friends of mine all over Facebook who'd never even _heard_ of you before talking about it, Bob. That's when I knew that it had truly gone viral. That said, I'm glad you never went down the "Angry Reviewer" route. One of the reasons I engaged with your content (and still do) was your deep analyses of things as well as keeping true to yourself even if I don't fully agree with everything you've said over the years. I wish you nothing but the best going forward, and I hope that we'll be able to have another chat sometime. You're awesome.
calling an actor a diversity hire ,for a show you have not seen is just so mask of racist that it boggles the mind. Like why do people get mad when you point out the bad dog whistling when they keep using the same black dwarf woman for their clickbait,like their are a decent 700+hd screenshots of this show+press kit images+a decent 100 onsite film production images and they keep using this one image.
It always cracked me up how for years of TLJ rants the go-to thumbnail to encapsulate everything wrong in the world was Laura Dern as Scary Woman with Colorful Hair.
@@voltijuice8576 yesssssssssssssss,I already know a video is going to be bad when I see a lady with coloured hair or a screaming lady etc as that tells me all they will say is some variation of sjw/woke for 10+minutes.They keep using pics from 2015/2016 its like they have just actively avoided the fact that yes things are different know,because thats how time works.I am sure big red,the trump presidential confirmation lady/scream green have long since moved on with their lives and yet these gritters keep using thier pics from half /close to a decade know.Its pretty telling that the only thing they can offer is rage clicks ,s when you get down o brass taxes their is no way to measure what "woke" even is so they can never be wrong and they can always find a way to be right.
"if you're not hyped for Amazon's LotR show don't watch it" - that's where i'm at. if reviews are good, once there's actually something to review, i could be brought around... but right now? to me? it smacks of corporate committee production, like the origin for the show was an executive realizing they were sitting on some rights that weren't being exploited.
that and the hobbit movies didn't exactly leave me craving more big budget live action middle earth.
yeah the people actively railing against it are jack asses, but i gave up letting those guys dictate what i think or watch or care about - even just to spite them - a long time ago.
Points for a mature attitude towards this, even as I'm trending the other way.
Dont worry, they're only crying about this to tide them over till 'Crying-about-there-being-a-black-guy-in-the-Hallmark-christmas-ads' season starts.
As usual, some very valid points.
For some reason "but Darth Vader is nine guys" line amuses me much more than it should.
You DO wonder if Lucas was thinking on the Nazghul when he made Vader, don't you?
Bob thanks for staying true to yourself and your morals when you had a chance to go in another direction back then. Your videos are entertaining and informative
Thank you for not becoming that Angry Guy character. What I love is the analysis and the thoughtful critique. I know there aren't enough of us out there or else you'd probably have millions of views all the time. Otherwise, I'm mildly interested in the Rings of Power, and mostly just waiting to check it out and hoping it's good. I'm mostly just hoping that season 2 of Wheel of Time really knocks it out of the ballpark as season one has me sort of on the fence. Though I was generally happy with all the casting, just not with all the story changes.
The final trailer was the one that finally tickled my nose on Rings Of Power. As Mr. Chipman said, it has a real GOT feel and feels more well thought-out than the actual GOT spinoff (which Mr. Chipman has rightly called "Tits And Dragons").
There's a lot of VERY big you tubers known for level-headed analysis.
@@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump I'd believe you more if you bothered to name them.
Thank you for the insight into the industry of hate baiting and for sticking to your guns and being honest and authentic. It's why I've been a fan of yours for years and I know it sucks that you haven't seen the success that you deserve but know that there is at least one person (me) who appreciates your authenticity.
And my axe!
Count me among the same, even when I haven't agreed with our Mr. Chipman. That he still remains after all this time gives me continued hope.
I'd say Movebob is about where he belongs and deserves.
Imagine simping for a genocidal man child with the production abilities of a middle school AV club, and the writing skills of a community college student in remedial English.
Seconded!
I dig the new format! Feels like the right balance between a scripted visual essay and a loose conversation. You’re talking off the cuff but not so much that you wind up talking in circles like some others. You’ve got talking points to keep you moving in a direction.
For the record, Bob, I know I watch you because we come from similar backgrounds, have similar ages, and similar sensibilities, so I know I can usually trust your opinions on stuff. Glad you didn't sell out to faux outrage.
+
I'm pretty sure I don't share a similar background to Bob. Different gender, minority, etc. But I listen to Bob's opinions because he seems open minded to experiences outside his own and doesn't get swept up in outrage.
Like when people were saying Eternals was a terrible movie, Bob's review was nuanced. I went and saw it and had a good time. And it's been a movie for me that gets better with rewatches.
fake outrages and using the old sjw and woke stuff excuse is ridiculous. honestly these channels become the sjw and woke they keep making videos from. annoying, pessimistic and one liners.
@@vanessac8193 I freaking LOVE Eternals! It was the first movie in a while that genuinely served up some surprises on its developments, something I hadn't seen in a superhero film in a while.
Thanks Bob. I appreciate you giving us some unvarnished truth.
I’ve learned that pretty much anyone that uses the word “Woke” as a pejorative term isn’t worth listening to at all. They have no original ideas & they are completely unwilling to engage in actual discourse.
Keep up the good work!
I've recently unsubscribed from a few channels because they've slipped into complaining about wokeness in media. I'm not sure why a video about the upcoming Godzilla series needs a 5 minute sidebar about 'woke casting', but here we are.
Some of them do make decent points.
Inserting contemporary issues into an ageless Fairy Tale like Lord of the Rings does seem like a bad idea.
Not because "woke bad" but because it just does not fit with the story.
Hence my counter slogan to their bullshit: Stay Asleep, Stay A Sheep.
@@ieuanhunt552 perhaps, but pretending that gender issues, for instance, were non-existant at any time before the mid 20th century only reinforces a 'good old days' narrative that many bad actors like to jump on.
@@AndrewMcColl And hammering the square peg of social commentary into the round hole that is LOTOR just muddles the story and pisses off Tolkien purists
"LotR with blonde Xena"
um, yeah 🤣 sign me up.
Keep this up, so much happier watching a reviewer actually most concerned with doing their job and reviewing stuff, giving an honest opinion rather than angry, shouting click bait. Your authenticity is why I still watch your stuff after almost 15 years.
I saw the term "manufactroversy" on Pajiba and it sums up a lot of what you are rightly calling out.
That and just plain ol' racism and misogyny.
No one in their right mind would spend a second being upset about the skin color of a fantasy character. Unless they thought they could profit from it.
Points to Pajiba for the apt neologism! I have my own counter slogan to these idiots: Stay Asleep, Stay A Sheep.
Nobody let Peter Jackson get away with THAT!! He just ran away too quickly...l
I was so depressed to see the level of weirdness, gatekeeping, and general toxicity that seemed reserved for Marvel DC, and Star Wars, had infected the Tolkien fandom. I guess it's the 2020's, and everything has to suck. . .
Yes it Gatekeeping when the people don’t want the left’s nonsense but it totally fine to alienate and keep out anyone who point out how the changes goes again what has been established before and are the real fans
I get the sense more and more that we may be closing in on their last hurrah. Mr. Chipman wisely pointed out their lack of talent, which also means lack of flexibility. Concordantly, that also means they only make the money for as long as they are tolerated. That tolerance is getting shorter by the day from what I've seen.
@@johnathonhaney8291 "I get the sense more and more that we may be closing in on their last hurrah"
i'm not sure. right-wing parties are trending upwards in popularity all over europe and this kind of misogyny, homo- and xenophobia are just the bread and butter of that movement :(
@@pizdamatii5001 Depends on where you're at...but my corner of the mainstream is increasingly done with these people in their current configuration. They are not smart, useful or otherwise able to bring anything to the table that would justify their inclusion.
Anyone nitpicking on this series over the inclusion of black dwarves in a fantasy series.... really needs to ask why they're actually doing so. Nitpick on it if you've seen it and it's legitimately dire, not because you dislike the choice of actor based on skin colour (even though (maybe) the lore contradicts the idea of black dwarves.... neither here nor there, really). Bang up job here, Bob.
I think they know. They make a lot of excuses for why it has nothing to do with racism in an attempt to convince us, but they know how they really feel. It's always a performance.
It's like when the Force Awakens trailed dropped, and there was outrage over a black stormtrooper, but they pretended that it was just because "stormtroopers can't be black cause they're clones". They thought that was such an ironclad excuse for their anger. But any real Star Wars nerd would know that they stopped using clone troopers after order 66, so either they knew that was a lie and pushed it anyway to hide their racism, or they aren't real Star Wars fans and would have no reason to care about such a minor inaccuracy unless they were racist.
"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like…like old leather. And finally… it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."
- Jean-Luc Picard
Over on Twitter there is a discussion on the charges in Sandman ( yes of course people’s skin colour ) The person I was in correspondence with straight up said “ you haven’t lived until you feel angry “. That’s beyond used to, that’s addiction.
@@francesconicoletti2547 Yeah, spoken like a true addict, that quote. As to Sandman....I mean, shit, is the fact that the guy who came up with it, NEIL F>>>ING GAIMAN, spent 30 years making this was good count for anything?!
When I first heard that they were going to compress the major events of the Second Age from "The Silmarillion" into a time period of like 100 years or so, I was pretty skeptical. But the more I thought about, the more I realized that was the only way it could work as a tv show. Because the events of the Second Age cover almost 3,500 years of time, but only like 50 of those years have anything narratively exciting going on. The first 1600 years is just Numenor being founded then just kind of...existing for a while. Then Sauron tricks an elf smith into forging the rings and attacks, and starts a war that lasts for a decade or two before he's defeated. Then Numenor spends another 1500 years or so just kind of existing, though this time as a xenophobic, imperialist power. Then Sauron shows up again, the Numenoreans have some dealings with him, and like 10 years later Numenor is destroyed. That's almost 3100 years of jack-shit going on. I'm not watching that, that's fucking boring.
That's actually an extended version of the first three seasons of Game Of Thrones when you think about it.
That might be the best description of the Second Age I've ever seen. I'm very much laughing my ass off.
Time skips are a thing I wish they had considered. Very risky to do but as it is based on Tolkien's work I think most people would be on board for a risk. As it is, the viewers who don't know probably won't even realise that the story's timeline has been truncated.
just not turning it into a show would also have been a valid option
@@gillesvankralingen66 A cowardly option.
Okay I love the Silmarillion and it's actually one of my favorite stories of all time. That being said, I don't give a flying fuck about the skin tone of the characters or who they cast. I know my LOTR mythos front to back and somehow I don't really care if they adapt/change things within it. I care about good writing, not the tiny details. All of this is to say, Moviebob is right, as usual.
If you think, galadriel saying "what am I to be without it" referring to her sword, is a tiny detail, Tolkiens point went over your head.
@Nathnael Tsegaw Actually Tolkien went over your head
@@nathnaeltsegaw7263 Granted, making Galadriel some sort of warrior princess makes about as much sense to me as Shadow of War having made Shelob into an attractive seductress.
And from what little I've seen of the show, it is a really bizarre choise to try and spin Lady of Lothlorien, one of the most powerful and widely respected elven rulers of Middle Earth into an underdog heroine, who'd struggle to get through to others.
I'm sure you could make that sort of character and story work within Tolkien's world, but Galadriel is absolutely the wrong character for it.
I seriously want Bollywood to adapt LOTR both to see heads explode and for some incredible dance numbers.
Do it, India! You know you want to.
Fun fact: jacksons films got the same reaction back in the day. There’s a reddit thread that documents it all.
And its just as homophobic and sexist as you think it is.
Do you happen to have a link to that Reddit thread? I would _love_ to have that in my back pocket. I searched for it, but all I'm finding are articles about Christopher Tolkien's impression of the trilogy.
@@xTheRedMagex YT wont’t let me link or explain how to find it.
Just get creative with the search words.
"Back in the day"? Come on. It wasn't that long ago. What, maybe 8 ywars ago fellowship came iut?
*googles *
Fellowship of the Ring original release date Dec 19 2001
............excuse me while i quietly turn to dust over here.
Yeah, I remember people being pretty upset about Glorfindel being written out in favor of Arwen.
@@jasonblalock4429 And Faramir having an actual arc instead of being a boring goody two shoes.
They complained about literally every little thing.
Then as always, whens its good they get silenced. Recently this happened with sandman and prey.
The reactionary rage of the nerd-o-sphere is actually embarrassing, as in "you do not want to be associated with those people" embarrassing. People get paid to do that? Can't you just dance a chip-and-dales? spare your dignity?
In a lot of ways, it's going to be worse than that. What they're doing is a bubble. When it pops, every screed they posted will be preserved for posterity. The Internet forgets NOTHING.
I'm just bummed we didn't get dwarven lasses with full luxuriant, beautiful beards. I'll give it a look eventually though.
At least not in the trailers so far!
Exactly the "problem" I have with the show, too 😄 /j
Just wanted to say that I always enjoy and appreciate your commentary on things as well as the reviews you do. You're one of the few creators in this space that I still watch because it feels like sitting down with a buddy and having a discussion about stuff we're passionate about rather than feeling like I've stumbled into a hate rally. The other aspect to all of this is youtube itself, it only takes me one click on a video to fill my feed with similar crap but I have to actively click out of it/say I don't like a thing to get them to stop showing me more of it. It's gross and has made me stop looking for new voices because of the alt right think tank minefield. I just want to watch a person talk about nerdy shit I care about for 10-20 minutes at a time and then go about my day, not dodge being onboarded into the hait bait economy. So thank you for all you do Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Proper Tolkien nerds complain abut the dwarf womans beardlessness. Dwarves were created by Aule anyway and can be any colour Aule wants.
Exactly. Dwarf women should have beards! It's the style and aize of the beard that lets you tell the genders apart.
Tolkien would've hated how defensive or "realistic" people get about his series.
He actually kind of did in his lifetime during the first wave of fandom during the 1960s. People went overboard with marriage ceremonies, names and lifestyles based on the books and he was like "Wha?"
I guess we will never know
I mean LOTR is Norse/Anglish mythological fan fic with some victorian gentleman sprinkled concepts for Pete's sake, it is well-researched fanfic but still...
"There can be leprechauns in it." That seems a reasonable description of Tom Bombadil.
Gil-galad *better* come rolling in on a Breath of the Wild motorcycle or what is this all even for?
As someone else who was courted to be a clown and essentially mortgage my sincerity for an audience, you made the right call. Not only does it limit your mind and eat at your soul, it's fucking exhausting to have to do the routine. I won't hand the hateful clowns of the world much, but one thing I will say is that they've got stamina. It's a shame that's all they really have though.
They don't have stamina though. As someone who was once going down that path myself, stamina isn't what drives you.
It's uncritical self-righteousness. And *that* is an infinitely-renewable resource.
To say that I "grew out of it" would imply that I was not a grown-ass adult when I started it, and I was, so that wasn't really what happened. What happened was that I stepped back and found that it was actively hurting my ability to *enjoy things.*
When you're watching some media for the purpose of finding some reason to dunk on it, you're not actually able to enjoy it. If you're analyzing every sentence for plot holes or incongruities or whatever, you're not actually enjoying the work. That, and watching good media criticism, helped cure me of this habit.
But the same self-righteousness that led me into that domain also is what drives these people. Couple that with bad ideology (the one often leads to the other), and you get these guys.
@@GeneralBolas I still see that as stamina I suppose. Regardless of what fuel is burning the engine, it's still an engine that's capable of taking the burn.
That's a really interesting framing though and not what I ever considered because after my first round of serious burnout I realized I didn't want to live my small, unimportant life that way.
Thank you. Truly. You have provided me with insight I would not have otherwise arrived at.
And I do think you're right. I think you're more right than I am.
2:00 I'm not angry about that. I'm annoyed that the girl dwarves aren't rocking facial hair.
Not into Rings of Power. Sandman? I'm rewatching it because it's Sandman.
“If you’re mad about black dwarves, please get a fucking life” is the most succinct stance I’ve come across in all this bullshit “controversy” that I fully endorse.
I'm got to be honest, I'm not really enjoying the "off the cuff" format for Big Picture. I completely understand that it's temporary and it's not even that big a deal. I'm just saying that personally I feel Big Picture should have a script.
That anchorman editing was amazing
Was actually just thinking of doing the Silmarillion as a Fantasia homage literally yesterday. That’d be AMAAAZING!!!
You'd need a good visual-oriented director to make that work, I think. I know Mr. Chipman would bring up Zack Snyder (eff him) but maybe someone like Guillermo Del Toro would work better?
I've been thinking the same for years! Then move slowly to having dialogue when the mythos gets to awakening of elves and the first words uttered.
@@johnathonhaney8291 That'd be doubly ironic since Guillermo was originally tasked with Hobbit directing duties.
If at any point I were to suffer a head injury severe enough to cause me to engage in good faith with someone who was angry about dwarves played by black people, I'd point out that dwarves were a race created by a secondary creator-being in Middle-Earth, and as such there's really no reason to think their genetics might be different somehow. Like, their creator-god could well have just made 'em in a few different shades just because he could.
But people being performatively angry about casting choices on the internet are not usually worth the time.
Having not seen it, the show could be the most tedious, trite, contrived, corporatized thing ever, and I'd still be inclined to be nice to it just because it'll piss off weird rightoid incels on the internet who get their fee fees hurt every time there's a black woman in a Star Wars thing.
As a weird, centroid incel, I would tend to agree with you as long as Amazon doesn't get my money.
When corporations engage in tokenized race swapping of characters in shows or movies they aren’t the good guys. It’s just a cop out that lets them get away with not investing money into shows and movies written by and starring minorities. In other words they want to take established IPs full of white people, race swap, and then be praised like they are brave. Honestly, tokenized race swapping is just kind of slimy.
At this point though corporations know they can get right wing nutjobs to throw a fit AND that them throwing a fit is essentially free advertisement getting normal people to feel like buying a product is taking some sort of progressive stand. like, remember when m&ms got that fox news jerk to throw a fit over a cartoon mascot redesign that was so subtle that no one would have cared or noticed otherwise, to get people to feel like buying candy was a progressive statement even though the chocolate is farmed by slave labor on bulldozed rainforest land? How many times have we seen this cycle? coffe machines, razors, sneakers, candy, streamins services - like fuck alt right bastards, it's good that they're unhappy, but that doesn't make corporations your friend.
There are a million meaningful stands you can take against fascism. buying a cynical cash grab corporate product is not one of them, no matter how loud they get the terminally online pissbabies to cry over it.
If the show is good, sure, watch it, but so far to me all signs point to a soulless board room production motivated by some executive realizing they had ip rights they weren't exploiting, not something that exists because anybody actually had a story they wanted to tell. Even with a diverse and talented cast, it's hard to overcome such a shallow and cynical origin.
@@seanwilkinson7431 get lost troll
@@jadedheartsz I thought we were talking about dwarves and elves.
Thank you for this video, the hate this show is getting because of black elves and dwarves is ridiculous. How they keep making the same video over and over is beyond me.
It's getting hate because it's f-ing with the Lore.
Sauron and Galadriel never met, and there's an established reason why.
And there's more rubbish changes to the mythos mo one asked for.
@@V4Now F the lore, it's fantasy. I hope they put a space ship in show🤣🤣
@@V4Now Hey buddy, the silmarilion didn't go anywhere. if it's messing with you, go read that and leave the show alone. Nobody's got a gun to your head.
@@V4Now Yeah from what I've heard there's a lot more people take issue with than f*** wokeness. That being said those who do take issue with that are pieces of shit.
And they aren't even adapting the Silmarillion. They only have the TV rights to Hobbit and LOTR. They literally *cannot* directly adapt anything in the Sil or the Tolkien estate would come after them. So everything else has to be made up. That's just the reality here. It will NOT adhere to the Silmarillion or any of Tolkein's other writings.
Even for the hypothetical people who aren’t trying to Trojan horse a racist argument in under the smokescreen of fan outrage, and are genuinely concerned for the “realism of the depiction of elves”, I hate to break it to you guys, but elves aren’t real. They can be green with pink polka dots for all it matters and they wouldn’t be any less “real”.
Good review. My initial reaction was 'they're adapting the Silmarillion? That doesn't seem possible" and I've been skipping ads ever since. With your description of what the show appears to be about, I think I'll give it a shot - sound more up my alley (I also love me some dwarfs, so that would be fun). I'm also glad you included a retrospective on your Pixels review as part of your analysis of the discourse (such as it is), because I first came to you via a recommendation to check out your Pixel review, but I stayed for your other (more enjoyable to me) content, like Schlocktober and your lore dives to help make new comic-book movies more accessible to me.
I enjoy your content, far more than if you had joined the hate-watch sub-species of reviewer, and I'm glad you're doing it, even if it would have been more profitable to scream inventive profanities instead. Glad to be watching.
I was introduced to your channel through your Pixels review years ago but upon exploring your channel it was your "Really That Good" series that I enjoyed the most. It got me interested in your content and seeing your perspective on things. There are times when I'll see a movie and afterwards think "I wonder what Bob thinks of this one". Our tastes vary a bit but agree or disagree I love hearing your honest opinions. Glad you stuck with doing things the way you do.
I read the back blurb of Silmarilion in the school library. When it said it was about the events before Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, I decided I should read it before reading those. That was... not a good idea.
On the escapist site, there was a dude screaming about this show and if we were going to change the Bible next to have non-binary angels. I couldn't resist pointing out Christian tradition already has angels be neither male or female.
But it's so good....
For one, glad you didn't chase that negativity. Being a neutral or even positive voice in a landscape of negativity is a welcome sight. I find it funny that you even went on to do an Adam Sandler Really That Good episode, and I hope, once things begin to lock in with the new formats, we can see a return of that series.
I want nothing to do with that particular episode and so refuse to watch it. But yeah, I want to see the return of Really That Good too.
If you look at his most popular videos on here, his second most viewed video that has almost as many views as the Pixels review is the Really That Good Spiderman 1 & 2 video, and I think that's really cool cause it's the exact opposite of the Pixels video, an entirely positive one. It shows that you don't always have to go negative to get widespread attention.
When it comes to the black dwarfs or anything like that I'm reminded of a line from Epic Rap Battles Tolkien vs George rr Martin
🎶 news flash the genre's called fantasy, it's meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee 🎶
Screw the pedigree.
This stuff is held up on way too high a pedestal, Tolkien was an okay writer that only ever got it right twice and half of what he wrote is ripped straight out of Beowulf, King Arthur and the Norse Sagas.
Literally every Dwarf and Elf's name in this series is ripped straight from the Norse creation myth, if you honestly think, "Oh Black Dwarfs, more women? That's not LoTR"!
LoTR isn't LoTR, get over it.
I mean... I think there is one, exactly one group of people who are allowed to get pissy about the lore being altered (other than the Tolkein estate I suppose) and that would be the *actual* Tolkein scholars who've built actual academic careers (or parts of careers) out of studying and analysing Tolkein's life and works (fiction *and* non-fiction) - some of those guys cried foul over Tom Bombadil being omitted from the LoTR films and so atleast they'd be being consistent.
Of course, others didn't, and instead welcomed the additions, and still others once apparently spent six hours, at an academic conference on Tolkein, earnestly debating whether bees existed in Middle Earth, until someone pointed out that mead halls did in Rohan, therefore honey did, therefore bees did (just to flag up what sort of people we're talking about here).
But yeah, otherwise, who cares?
18:26
thanks for not chasing the anger review routine
i think i liked that for some stuff but not all of it
the anger felt like a really good emotional catharsis for something that didn't look good to me
but i saw your other stuff and what you had to say on that, I liked that even better
and with each video i always feel like i'm learning something
He's a much better critic for avoiding all that, yes.
But isn’t he doing the same kind of anger and discussed but in the reverse? It’s not like he talked His anticipation of the show. The kinds of things you would like to see your perhaps not like to see what direction he may have one in the show to go in. Perhaps he could’ve discussed more if any of his opinion on the trailers? Or better yet why not just wait till it’s out and review it at that point?
He did this video because this is what his viewers like to hear. I’m sure you noticed many of his videos are very politically charged always ensuring that the wrong type of people get put in their place. You really haven’t noticed this is his routine?
Leave it to Moviebob to be the fucking grown-up in the room.
thankyou for this video,the haters/bigots using nerd culture to attack people is truly sickening,i was bullied for being a nerd in the 70s/80s and the thought that those same people doing the bullying are now using the things i love to attack marginalised people turns my stomach,i try to confront everywhere i find it,the best recent response to it has occured in he Sandman forums/sites with the idiots trying to stir up the usual hate over castings,not only has the fandom shot them down in flames but Neil Gaiman himself has taken many of them to task over comments made
Same situation, though I'm a little younger than you. Those idiots attacking Sandman is only slightly less hilarious than their attacks on a favorite contemporary IP of the same period of mine, Vampire The Masquerade. In both cases, those worlds pioneered EVERYTHING those dummies hated on.
Dang, I almost forgot that people were mad about Link on a motorcycle too
So when are we getting the Really That Good for LOTR?
Except it isn't.
Coming from a black guy here, but this wouldn't be a thing if "whitewashing" weren't also a thing... you really can't have it both ways...that being said, diversity isn't bad, but diversity for the sake of such irrespective of the source material is shortsighted at best and pandering at worst...
You actually CAN have it both ways; casting traditionally underrepresented POC into 'normally white' roles shifts the cultural zeitgeist into having representation for said POC not be unusual, while casting YT in roles that would normally be characterized by POC only reinforces the already dominant white/minority dynamic that the majority of media is still encapsulated by.
So long as people still view any non-white person being cast as a character that has been portrayed by a white actor in the past as being 'politically motivated' or 'diversity for diversity's sake,' then the dynamic still hasn't shifted and actors of color are still being viewed as the outlier rather than the norm.
@@gc6185 it... really doesn't do all that... all it does is pander and turn entertainment into a political statement... there are 8 billion people in the planet, we can't expect that every iteration of humanity be represented... this black elf thing and other things like it wouldn't even be an issue of it stopped being looked at as some brave turn of the zeitgeist... nick fury is black now and no one is protesting it because it was a creative decision, not a political one...
@@5pid3rman80 You're wrong.
It's not real, it's fantasy. Like, seriously. Thank you for saying that upfront.
No kidding. They could make the dwarve pink and purple with neon orange polka dots and it'd be fine
This is always the cop out used for completely disrespecting source material for political purposes, and it’s kind of obnoxious. Would the same logic hold up in your mind if the next Black Panther has white Wakandans? I’m sure some people are just racist and hate race-swapping in LotR just because they hate non-white people, but the reality is many of us have no problem with people of color, we have a problem with the properties we love being bastardized for the sake of a political agenda. Personally, I’m firmly in the position of supporting shows and movies being created that organically and naturally feature people of color (Black Panther and Shang-Chi were both pretty good for instance). Tokenized race swapping is not a viable replacement for that. It’s quite the opposite.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 First of all, I don't even care for Black Panther. Secondly, it's make believe like Bob said. I have a general understanding of the Rings lore, but that's because I've seen the movies. I have so much other stuff going on in life outside of obsessing over fantasy stuff. If Black Panther had white Wakandans, I wouldn't care. I didn't even bother to make sure I spelled Wakandans right, because it's not real.
Was it Elden Ring that people were getting equally upset about because it allowed for character creation that could create authentic PoC? Of course, people correctly pointed out that there were *blue-skinned* characters in the game, which those same critics were just fine with...
@@wespapes2054 If true, at least you’re consistent. I can assure you MANY people would lose their minds if that happened though, and all the people in the media who love to throw around accusations of racism and bigotry over discontent over the race-swapping of white characters would have very different takes on the matter.
As far as your take of “it’s not real, so who cares?” goes, speculative fiction needs some kind of verisimilitude for people to buy into it. If you just create fantasy that has no internal logic and no verisimilitude most people will see it for what it is: incoherent nonsense rather than a coherent fantasy story. Now if someone wants to do that with their original fantasy material, literally no one will care. When people do that with the most storied and beloved fantasy setting of all time, naturally a lot of people will not like it. Not liking it does not equate to being a racist or a bigot, despite what Bob and other media morons claim.
I originally wanted nothing to do with this series, not because of the inclusion of POC or women, or anything; it was because of a then backpeddaled article stating that they wanted the show to be like Game of Thrones complete with graphic violence and nudity. Me not being a fan of Game Of Thrones, I wanted NOTHING to do with something trying to be a successor to it. Thankfully they clarified that this will (hopefully) not be the case and I’m excited again.
I want a ancient Norse fantasy series where dwarfs and elves are the same thing, and gods giants , humans and dwarfs are all the same size. Just to demonstrate how much Tolkien made up.
Dwarves and elves not really having THAT many meaningful distinctions between them as they're both kinda 'non-human magical beings' except ( dwarves live underground and elves are mostly associated with woods and fields and whatnot), that I've heard. But were dwarves really not supershort, like tiny little people, in the myths? I genuinely don't know if Tolkien made that up or if at least some old legends say they're tiny.
@@goranisacson2502 in the norse stuff no, I suspect that little stuff comes from much later fairy stories.
"Lord of the Rings but with Blonde Xena"
Okay, but if that is the show then the people who made that need to make more television.
Thanks so much for putting this out. I'm so sick of how mean-spirited and hateful this tiny minority of the fandom has become.
I'm past sick with that crowd and am officially in pissed off territory.
@@johnathonhaney8291 Absolutely.
Speaking of, you said "maybe" on "Is it really that good" for LotR. It was long ago, but we remember.
Sometimes you have to engage them because people were mad that Black soldiers are over represented in the Battlefield game set in ww1 but arnt mad Black American Soldiers are under represented in a lot of military games
One of the best Big Pictures yet!
(On a feedback note, I paid attention to you way more than the stock faces on the left... almost forgot they were there till the end when you started talking format.)
Yeah, that dumb "It is based on mythology thing": Most of it is Norse mythology.Which had nine realms. One of those was literally Svartalvheim. Oh, sorry, let me translate that for those guys: "Home of the black elves!" Norse mythology includes a whole damn planet of black elves! I am fairly certain Norse mythology had black dwarves, too.
Makes you want to drop these dummies into what they'd think is Hell but is actually Muspelheim.
Love ya Bob. Long time fan here. I've even debated you in comments a few times, back in the O.G. Escapist days.
You are good people.
Come now, you know what we really want: the ten-part Really That Good for PJ's Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Bob I am glad you are you and not an angry character.
I don't like the changes to the lore regarding galadriel, couldn't care less about the dwarfs being black because, as Bob said, who cares. My solution to my dislike of the lore changes? Either do or don't watch it. That's it. It makes no difference to me either way. It's literally harming no one, it doesn't change Tolkien's original text. Who cares?
If i do decide to watch it, it'll be despite my dislike of any lore changes and as such I'll just judge it on its own merits as a show. If I enjoy it, great. If I don't enjoy it, I just won't watch it again.
I honestly don't understand why people are so mad, even as someone who doesn't like it when people mess around with established Tolkien lore lol
A quote from Churchill: "The empires of the future will be the empires of the mind." THAT'S the territory those idiots want to conquer. They never stood a chance.
Agreed. Race swapping? Whatever, I know it's supposed to be a white euro blah blah blah- if they're good actors, with good material, fine. There is more merit to the cavalier retakes on established characters? Like Galadriel? Or we want hobbits, but can't have hobbits? That's what's making this NOT LoTR. I don't get too mad, over that stuff, cuz Jackson already miffed the Hobbit movie(s) so bad, it's already been tarnished imo. Don't like it? Ms Marvell it.
The Pixels review is actually one of the reasons I put a lot of trust in moviebob reviews and regularly go out to see movies that were otherwise not on my radar based on said reviews. After the success of that video, seeing the channel NOT turn into a string of scathing reviews to farm clicks demonstrated a lot of integrity as both a critic and a content creator.
I honestly hadn't paid that much attention to the development, not even sure I watched the trailers for this. But I like the first three LOTR movies well enough to have named two dogs after characters in them, so I guess I'll give it a shot for Strider and Arwen's sakes.
I'm really happy you didn't chase that Pixels high. Maybe it hasn't gotten you as many views, but I treasure your Really That Good series far more than any 'outraged' review or CinemaSins style takedown.
I’m so glad Bob got the Flashpoint episode finished only for Zaslav to respond “oh you thought canceling Batgirl was creator unfriendly and stupid? Wait til you see what I’m doing next”
Aside from Twitter posts, Mr. Chipman is done with all that and more power to him.
I've been a fan of your for years precisely because you are not one of those rage bait-y "critics" and because we usually have the same or similar taste in movies. Good luck with all the changes, can't wait to see what the future holds!
I blame copyright law for the excessive attachment to lore and canon that exists these days. I mean, we don't really see this sort of fervor regarding Sherlock Holmes stories now, do we?
If things went into the public domain like they did before Disney got it changed, then we'd have bucketloads of people making LotR adaptations of all kinds, and the people who complain about this or that lore piece or canon change would be able to enjoy the version of the story that caters to them. Same is true for Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.
On the other hand, if those things went into the public domain they'd probably be less profitable for their particular owner, so we'll likely never see such a change to the law, as long as those in power remain in power.
I saw this sort of fervor regarding Enola Holmes.
Thank you for staying authentic. And for knowing yourself well enough to know that you can't fake it (which, let's be real, is definitely a talent that some people possess and I am kind of jealous of them).
Your analysis opens up new pathways in brain and I'm a richer media-liker for it.
Big respect for you Bob, imagine a world were everyone choose true love of film over cash from bashing films.
A world of integrity... that would be incredible
THANK. YOU.
(Or, as a certain channels' thumbnails would put it, "Bob FINALLY takes on youtube critic culture!") Also, a Steve Shives vid drops at almost the exact same time, criticizing "woke panic"...It's Christmas!
For the record Bob, I still believe you can give us that Really That Good episode covering Lord of the Rings.
Thank you for articulating all of this and still being so very, very entertaining Bob!
Personally, I would love to see a CG-animated adaptation of the stories of the Silmarillion, whether as an OVA or direct to streaming...Is there any solid reason such a thing could never happen?
They could do a series of anime shorts based on it, like what Star Wars and Halo did. That would make a lot of money.
The narrative prevents it. the could do certain parts like the lay of leithian (Beren and Luthien) or the story of Turin Turumbar perhaps but the rest of the stories are fragmented.
@@IamVerilance I would argue the fragmented nature of those stories would make it easier. I'm not talking about making an anime series, I'm talking about anime shorts where each one is made by a different studio (again like Star Wars and Halo Legends).
Frankly. Amazon should have done this. An adult animation of the Silmarillion, get an amazing voice cast.
Holly shit, a War of Wrath animated AMV sounds FANTASTIC.
I discovered you because of the intensity of your Pixels review and I have to say repeating that would have gotten old and I really, really appreciate the genuine reviews you actually provide. You're at the top of my "go-to" reviewers and I wish you continued success while I stay along for the ride.
I am glad you're in my subscriptions, Bob. Personally, I think the ethnic and authorial issues at play around this show are more nuanced than just an accusation of racism, but I appreciated you reminding me that it's just a book, and this is just a TV show, and no one has to watch it. Thank you for being a centrist for us.
Well put
Either the show is a huge success which embarrass all these screaming idiots or it's a huge failure in which case Amazon looses a ton of money. It's a win-win.
Sadly I dont think so. It could pull in Games of Thrones numbers and reviews (the good ones anyway) and they'll just declare the reviews paid for and the viewing numbers fake. Just like when they said Disney were buying all the seats and showing captain marvel to empty theatres to boost numbers. "Hey I guess I was wrong about this" isnt in their vocabulary
@@shoutingstone But was that really a win for them on Captain Marvel, though? They're the only ones who still even talk about that film now (I found it chill and kind of fun personally) and Marvel Studios learned to use them as unwitting free publicity engines. So they remain cogs in the machine they're railing against.
Stay Asleep, Stay A Sheep.
True but we can still laugh at them.
thanks again for your continued level headed takes on this
it's always refreshing to hear when there's a lot of reactionary stuff around
keep it up
The time comes eventually where you learn that not everything is for you and that's okay, They might take the thing you love and change it a lot, but the one you love still exists. If you want the same thing over and over you might have to look inward because that might be you unable to let go of the past. New takes can be exciting!, and if you refuse to let something change than it will die. Like incasing your pet in Lucite, yeah they'll be there forever but they wont get to grow and change.
My friend, I think you've just tapped into the subtextual message of Wandavision.
@@johnathonhaney8291 well would you look at that, neat!.
I take the nerd stuff and organized religion both very seriously. But just like religion, so too the nerd stuff should be allowed to change over time in response to our changing understandings. As famed Unitarian minister Theodore Parker (whom both Lincoln and MLK Jr have quoted) said in "The Transient and the Permanent in Christianity," we must always strike a balance between preserving the heart of the thing we love (whether religion or nerd stuff) and allowing the format in which it's presented to change. Does casting a Black actor to play a dwarf or an elf change the heart of LOTR? Um, no, not unless one thinks that the heart of LOTR is its whiteness, which... yikes.
Lord of the rings and The Lion the witch and the wardrobe are both very special books to me, but nothing anyone adapts in those stories affects the book
I don’t think they’re acting as much as they’re intentionally working themselves up and making themselves angry. And I think the response isn’t necessarily about views as much as about engagement, they thrive on other people agreeing with them and feeling validated, and they tapped into unharvested anger to get it,
I'm the kind of weirdo that loves Tolkien's unfinished works more than Hobbit and LotR. Might be because it reminds me of studying Sumer and Akkad, broken bits of info that are so interesting. I like to think that much of Tolkien's lore was influenced by what was being discovered up until that time. Remember, around the mid 1800s researchers manage to translate Sumerian/Akkadian cuneiform and there was a huge boom in anthropology/archeology/linguistic interest throughout the early 1900. The idea of Quenya elvish being cuneiform, the end of the war with Morgoth being the fall of Akkad or the bronze age collapse.
Even if Quenya was actually based on Finnish while the other elvish language Sindarrin was based on Welsh.
I remember when, one or two videos after the Pixels thing (from which I first heard of you), you said "I know a lot of y'all are here to hear me tear into this one with creative vulgarity and precision plot dissection" and that made me realize "yeh, that's why I'm here" but it also made me realize that that doesn't need to be the baseline for movie reviews. And don't get me wrong I know the Pixels review (and some of the other videos from that era) word for word, sort of a party trick of mine hahaha I really enjoy those, but that opened me to the whole theme of your work, for which I am now really thankful. Really That Good was a game changer for me, as was Shclocktober and a lot of episodes from this series. So whomever might not understand a work of passion as yours when they see it, that's just their loss. Thanks, Bob.
p.s. my favourite line of yours is "why in the piss drenched bowels of lowest hell would Khaleesi and the Governator need to build a fucking time machine?" Gold.
Your Comic Book Guy impression must be a hit at parties 😆
Fantasia meets Simarillion is now my new favorite non-existent concept 🤩
Because now I've gone through the entire video and not just commenting so I don't forget to... I appreciate your artistic and journalistic integrity. I live pretty hand to mouth many years so I can't always be a patreon supporter. But, I will continue to consume your content and recommend it. You live on the top shelf of my content along with LRR and similar groups that when a new video comes out I immediately gravitate to it.
Fantasia-style Silmarillion sounds pretty cool, actually.