@@marciamackie554 so glad that made sense to you. I’ve been amazed to see the different reactions I’ve gotten from that point of view. Thanks for your comment. It really means a lot.❤️
I can't get behind anything relating to modern polygamy. Joseph, Hyrum, and Emma all condemned it openly in public, many times. What Brigham taught was an abomination. We could parse though the nhances of Levitical law, but that has almost no relation to what Brigham did or taught. Midegah, on the other hand, is a pretty interesting dude. Same with Phillip Cloudpiler. The record from Cloudpiler states that monogamy is the way of heaven.
@@thereluctantwatchman so I am not endorsing polygamy… you seem eager to disagree… my point has two elements. First, everyone at least recognize it is a unique challenge in our history. Second, if the law is symbolic (I think it is) then what are the symbolism lessons from the law for us. After all it is clearly in the law. Are you disagreeing with those points or are you trying to broaden the discussion? I am open to learning about the other guy… post a video in the comments and I will be curious. Thanks for watching
@@iamjustathinker The rise and fall of the LDS church hinges on polygamy due to how it was manifest in the LDS church. If Joseph condemned it (which he did), then what happened to the church? I don't see polygamy as a spiritual law. I see Abraham and Jacob recommitting to God, repenting, and being given new names.
@@thereluctantwatchman OK I am curious of how you treat Exodus 32:10? Also Abraham had concubines that gave him children so this would have been after Ishmael and Isaac… that had to be after his name was changed. A concubine is worse than polygamy… (Genesis 25:6) Please remember I see it as a metaphor I am not endorsing the practice
Not sure if you are condoning polygamy or against it or using it as the metaphor for Christ's bride only. I agree with Chief Midegah having authority, but even if he didn't he can be given it directly from God as a calling. Alma the Younger left the wicked King Noah and priests and received power from on high. I don't see how we shouldn't have more than one source of truth either ...where did we come up with one prophet shall be for the planet at a time, while at the same time we say that the lost tribes will come back with their prophet. Many times in scriptures it says the prophets plural.
Your question is one that I would have a hard time answering simply. Understanding what sin is and when it becomes, sin is a large concept. For instance, at the covenant status of Abraham at the time he was asked to offer Isaac that was not sin according to the covenant he was under. The Noah law or the covenant is for principles at its most basic. None of those four were violated with the request by God. Like I say, it takes a lot more explaining, and I have been trying to wrap my head around a way to do a video explaining these connections. There’s a nuance to what you’re saying on priest Authority. Once again something I want to try to put together my thoughts around, but will take some time. Thanks for chiming in
That was Brigham who came up with that whole on prophet at a time but like everything else he did or said it was just BS. PS Alma the younger was actually the son of Alma who escaped King Noah. I imagine you already realize the oopsi. LOL.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 I see you’re very critical of Brigham. (FYI it’s “one” not “on” it took me a minute to see what you were saying 🤪) What the church has experienced is the same pattern from the past. I’m curious your thoughts on this other video I have about this pattern. Check it out if you have a minute ua-cam.com/video/p-pRfK3keI8/v-deo.htmlsi=VqLHa03T1RKrUE8Z
@@iamjustathinker A while back I decided to get to know the real Brigham Young and not the one the church has taught us about. I learned that he was not a humble servant of God but rather an imposter and a very wicked man. The information is there but you have to do your research. He hijacked the church and used it for his own will and pleasure. He used Joseph any time he could to help to convince and control the members that he was doing the right thing because Joseph was indeed a humble servant of God and the people loved him. Brigham taught many false doctrines and took true doctrines that Joseph had taught and twisted them to his own liking. So yes, I am very critical of Brigham.
Found this by accident. Well... I have had experiences similar to yours in some ways. I've always liked other cultures and been friendly to them. I've tried to be friends with native americans at every chance and to help them. But I've always had them get mad at me, basically stuff for things Americans and American culture had done to them, not because of what I'd done to them or what LDS people had done to them. I find that frustrating. I've also run into the story that in the 1800s when missionaries first went to the Hopi, the Hopi were told by dreams or spirit vision etc that the men from the west (mormons) would be friends to them and give them blessings or whatever... but the men from the east would try to hurt them and be bad (the Americans). Well.. why do we have to be classified as bad people to them? Technically the people from this country tried to hurt and squash our culture also. So why don't they see us as different? IF you look at the pattern of what happened here in America over the last 150 years... if WW1 & 2 hadn't happened, the people of this country would have gone after us again. You see this when you read the Utah War and other things from Utah history not Missouri history itself. Yet we still love this country and land. It also seems that when you cross culture and language lines that... it seems like there's always this enmity that gets triggered so easily. Even without even trying. You can say something and not even be rude, not trying to be harmful, and even being nice. And sometimes people will somehow get upset. ... In native culture also the leaders both chiefs and shamans use eagle feathers. I'd learned that eagles are symbols of angels. So that's quite interesting that there's a connection there. (Else they'd not want angel symbols among them...) I've been backstabbed by people from other cultures AND from LDS people a lot. So it seems like we're at that point where we're facing the trial of our faith again, because our people and culture aren't living the gospel. So I think they'll have to go through a trial again to re-awaken the flames. I don't have any opinion yet On Midegah... but I did notice there's some things in the Book of Mormon that only natives will find and recognize. And its very interesting. Like the natives have this prophecy about a white buffalo coming when trouble is coming and a time of change... well that actually matches up with the Book of Enoch. Only in other scriptures its sometimes called a white beast or a white cattle (Buffaloes are sort of cattle). And European culture uses a white horse instead. (Well JS used a white horse for some things.) There are many things that are hard to explain with some things that other cultures have. And it seems some of this is from them having remnant bits among them. But I try to not decide on if its real or not with them but just go on, support what's good, don't support what's bad, and cause NO HARM to anyone. ... Well... I hope this will help you somehow. I imagine you want a reply and hope people will notice your video.
@@noahriding5780 yes we are moving into a very interesting time and I hope that things will become more clear. I’m not sure how truth will rise up, but my goal is to have my eyes open and be looking. That’s the only way that we have any hope of seeing.
The first time I saw David I was so excited and thinking this is the time for the Lamanites to blossom as a rose. Some of the people were saying maybe he is that Davidic servant but I don't think so. After I watched a few more videos I realized that he is too full of hatred toward white people. He kept saying "you" when talking about the horrible things that his people had been put through. Some time later he even said that there were people who had said "we were even there" and he still held it against us so I don't know what to think about him just yet. He needs help to overcome the trauma he has been through in his life. But he and many others of his people need help to overcome these things and maybe then he will find the peace and understanding that they need. I am hoping that this move to Canada that he talked about may help start the healing as he spoke very positive about his experiences so far. That was two or three weeks ago. I do hope he will find that peace and love he is searching for.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 That's kind of what I ran into when I'd run into other natives I ran into. Although I've only run into a couple so far that weren't Latinos/as. I think I understand why people are confused. First, we do know there will be more scriptures someday. And some may come from natives AND other places in the world. So we would expect a scenario like this someday. But we had to earn our scriptures from being good and faithful. And accepting the gospel. We didn't get them by following hate. So I don't think we can gain scriptures from that person, especially if there's hate. (This is probably why we had the lesson of the lost manuscript; else someone would say, hey I've got it right here!) Scriptures come from the Lord. And they would be beacons of hope, peace, and Zion. So I don't think this is the source; meaning that person. But I do hope for the day that it could be so. And if someone had scriptures, records from their peoples journey of faith, they should have more light and spirit, and some ability to discern between Americans and the people of God. And accept them. That's why there's that scripture that ... when we are at Zion we'll see eye to eye. This means seeing each other with acceptance, love, and true brotherhood. (This is a discernment key I think. I don't see it there.) Another point is that we are living in a time where it could also be the case where some Lamanite groups are more righteous than the country is. Because that happened in the Book of Mormon. So I would think there's some of that. And... an example of this, there's a hymn video of an LDS Mongolian choir singing a church hymn that sounds like a match for that. When you listen you think wow, how could they be so humble to sing like that. And some non-English wards would be very precious. Additional note; There is some Rigby guy going around passing out new scripture manuscripts. But when you actually look him up, he was excommunicated at some point. So... that can't be a match.
The nemenhah records should be read by all lds members. The endowment is in the book, in full, with heavenly mother too. Women have the greater priesthood from birth. Polygamy is fully explained (not as ideal). The future of our church is in there too. I have read it. Lds in regional South Australia 🇦🇺
I love that polygamy is finally being exposed for what it is. Nothing but filth! God is the most powerful creation in every universe put together thus having no need to sacrifice women for the use of man. That's man's doctrine. Great comment😇😇
@@joyfulsurety well, this videos purpose was not to get into details of the authority of the church that I am curious what specifically are you trying to point out? I am most curious about your words on what you’re trying to find out. Thanks for commenting
A beautiful metaphor? Do you have any idea the hell those poor people went through? If you want to know how it hurt the women and children to practice polygamy go read Jacob2:31. Not trying to attack you but I am not always good with words.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 there are times it went horribly wrong. You are correct! I am talking very specifically about the times it went/goes well. I have a story from my great grandma that was testifying about how beautiful it was for her and her family. I know that’s offensive to some, but it is the experience of others. Jacob 2 is an interesting and very controversial scripture. I see it different, it is something to be discussed in the future. Thanks for chiming in.
Why did brigham young murder native americans then..read your history sir.its shameful and disturbing.. im fed up of the sanirized version of its history. . The saviour never mentioned polygamy.marrying young girls who were trafficked from europe is a shameful act...having 54 wives martied to a racist like brigham young is nothimg to be proud of...he died a mllionaire who had whiskey distillaries...when does the scales fall from your eyes..respect
@@patriciafinn5717 I can see why you say what you’re saying… I believe there are ways to address the concerns you bring up if you’re open to a new understanding. I Don’t believe it’s about sanitizing history. The Utah war is in the history books. That’s why we even know about it. It’s only human nature to want to focus on the good so that is the history that gets discussed. yes, there’s examples on both sides of natives killing Mormons and also Mormons killing natives. It was a war and it was very complicated. I’m learning now that it was expected through the seven fires prophecy given by the three brothers to the people that level of persecution was expected. we can look with clarity at how unfortunate and bad it was… Perhaps it’s more important to look at our present day and seek reconciliation and understanding. You obviously sound passionate. I would hope you’re engaged in some sort of cause to help people that have been affected. It’s interesting to hear you classify the girls coming from Europe as being trafficked. I imagine they’re probably was ones that would fit that description but that’s not everyone. The idea that mistakes were not made is not what I’m trying to defend. In fact, my criticism is, largely ignored the provision and requirement from the Bible regarding polygamy. I have an example in my family history or a woman was married to a man and didn’t see him for years and he left her in complete poverty. That is the history. Not perfect. So was it done wrong at times? Absolutely, I would never argue it was not. I would imagine you hold the same animosity towards other stories in the Bible as well. If not, you should. Judge both examples by the same standards (Mormons and Bible stories). What I learned from this is simply the fact that it’s messy and we are imperfect there was only one perfect individual and that is Jesus Christ in whom all of these wrongs will one day be made right.
Watching. Thanks for letting the mosquito eat:)
Thinking outside the box. Interesting.
Mic 🎤 dropped! I love that. Polygamy is a metaphor for the kingdom of God. I've never seen this before.
@@marciamackie554 so glad that made sense to you. I’ve been amazed to see the different reactions I’ve gotten from that point of view. Thanks for your comment. It really means a lot.❤️
I enjoyed the video. Great scripture reference.
@@elderinisrael thanks glad it made sense to you.
I can't get behind anything relating to modern polygamy. Joseph, Hyrum, and Emma all condemned it openly in public, many times. What Brigham taught was an abomination. We could parse though the nhances of Levitical law, but that has almost no relation to what Brigham did or taught.
Midegah, on the other hand, is a pretty interesting dude. Same with Phillip Cloudpiler. The record from Cloudpiler states that monogamy is the way of heaven.
@@thereluctantwatchman so I am not endorsing polygamy… you seem eager to disagree… my point has two elements. First, everyone at least recognize it is a unique challenge in our history. Second, if the law is symbolic (I think it is) then what are the symbolism lessons from the law for us. After all it is clearly in the law. Are you disagreeing with those points or are you trying to broaden the discussion?
I am open to learning about the other guy… post a video in the comments and I will be curious. Thanks for watching
@@iamjustathinker The rise and fall of the LDS church hinges on polygamy due to how it was manifest in the LDS church. If Joseph condemned it (which he did), then what happened to the church? I don't see polygamy as a spiritual law. I see Abraham and Jacob recommitting to God, repenting, and being given new names.
FYI, links cannot be posted in the comments. You'll have to search for Zion Media and Phillip Cloudpiler. He's done a few videos with Midegah.
@@thereluctantwatchman OK I am curious of how you treat Exodus 32:10?
Also Abraham had concubines that gave him children so this would have been after Ishmael and Isaac… that had to be after his name was changed. A concubine is worse than polygamy… (Genesis 25:6)
Please remember I see it as a metaphor I am not endorsing the practice
Well said💯💯💯
Not sure if you are condoning polygamy or against it or using it as the metaphor for Christ's bride only.
I agree with Chief Midegah having authority, but even if he didn't he can be given it directly from God as a calling. Alma the Younger left the wicked King Noah and priests and received power from on high. I don't see how we shouldn't have more than one source of truth either ...where did we come up with one prophet shall be for the planet at a time, while at the same time we say that the lost tribes will come back with their prophet. Many times in scriptures it says the prophets plural.
Your question is one that I would have a hard time answering simply. Understanding what sin is and when it becomes, sin is a large concept. For instance, at the covenant status of Abraham at the time he was asked to offer Isaac that was not sin according to the covenant he was under. The Noah law or the covenant is for principles at its most basic. None of those four were violated with the request by God. Like I say, it takes a lot more explaining, and I have been trying to wrap my head around a way to do a video explaining these connections.
There’s a nuance to what you’re saying on priest Authority. Once again something I want to try to put together my thoughts around, but will take some time.
Thanks for chiming in
Yes… Authority can be given directly by God/ Spirit …. and this by visitation/baptism .
That was Brigham who came up with that whole on prophet at a time but like everything else he did or said it was just BS. PS Alma the younger was actually the son of Alma who escaped King Noah. I imagine you already realize the oopsi. LOL.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 I see you’re very critical of Brigham. (FYI it’s “one” not “on” it took me a minute to see what you were saying 🤪) What the church has experienced is the same pattern from the past. I’m curious your thoughts on this other video I have about this pattern.
Check it out if you have a minute
ua-cam.com/video/p-pRfK3keI8/v-deo.htmlsi=VqLHa03T1RKrUE8Z
@@iamjustathinker A while back I decided to get to know the real Brigham Young and not the one the church has taught us about. I learned that he was not a humble servant of God but rather an imposter and a very wicked man. The information is there but you have to do your research. He hijacked the church and used it for his own will and pleasure. He used Joseph any time he could to help to convince and control the members that he was doing the right thing because Joseph was indeed a humble servant of God and the people loved him. Brigham taught many false doctrines and took true doctrines that Joseph had taught and twisted them to his own liking. So yes, I am very critical of Brigham.
Found this by accident.
Well... I have had experiences similar to yours in some ways. I've always liked other cultures and been friendly to them. I've tried to be friends with native americans at every chance and to help them. But I've always had them get mad at me, basically stuff for things Americans and American culture had done to them, not because of what I'd done to them or what LDS people had done to them. I find that frustrating.
I've also run into the story that in the 1800s when missionaries first went to the Hopi, the Hopi were told by dreams or spirit vision etc that the men from the west (mormons) would be friends to them and give them blessings or whatever... but the men from the east would try to hurt them and be bad (the Americans).
Well.. why do we have to be classified as bad people to them? Technically the people from this country tried to hurt and squash our culture also. So why don't they see us as different? IF you look at the pattern of what happened here in America over the last 150 years... if WW1 & 2 hadn't happened, the people of this country would have gone after us again. You see this when you read the Utah War and other things from Utah history not Missouri history itself. Yet we still love this country and land.
It also seems that when you cross culture and language lines that... it seems like there's always this enmity that gets triggered so easily. Even without even trying. You can say something and not even be rude, not trying to be harmful, and even being nice. And sometimes people will somehow get upset.
...
In native culture also the leaders both chiefs and shamans use eagle feathers. I'd learned that eagles are symbols of angels. So that's quite interesting that there's a connection there. (Else they'd not want angel symbols among them...)
I've been backstabbed by people from other cultures AND from LDS people a lot. So it seems like we're at that point where we're facing the trial of our faith again, because our people and culture aren't living the gospel. So I think they'll have to go through a trial again to re-awaken the flames.
I don't have any opinion yet On Midegah... but I did notice there's some things in the Book of Mormon that only natives will find and recognize. And its very interesting. Like the natives have this prophecy about a white buffalo coming when trouble is coming and a time of change... well that actually matches up with the Book of Enoch. Only in other scriptures its sometimes called a white beast or a white cattle (Buffaloes are sort of cattle). And European culture uses a white horse instead. (Well JS used a white horse for some things.)
There are many things that are hard to explain with some things that other cultures have. And it seems some of this is from them having remnant bits among them. But I try to not decide on if its real or not with them but just go on, support what's good, don't support what's bad, and cause NO HARM to anyone.
...
Well... I hope this will help you somehow. I imagine you want a reply and hope people will notice your video.
@@noahriding5780 yes we are moving into a very interesting time and I hope that things will become more clear. I’m not sure how truth will rise up, but my goal is to have my eyes open and be looking. That’s the only way that we have any hope of seeing.
@@iamjustathinker That's a good approach. Thanks for the reply.
The first time I saw David I was so excited and thinking this is the time for the Lamanites to blossom as a rose. Some of the people were saying maybe he is that Davidic servant but I don't think so. After I watched a few more videos I realized that he is too full of hatred toward white people. He kept saying "you" when talking about the horrible things that his people had been put through. Some time later he even said that there were people who had said "we were even there" and he still held it against us so I don't know what to think about him just yet. He needs help to overcome the trauma he has been through in his life. But he and many others of his people need help to overcome these things and maybe then he will find the peace and understanding that they need. I am hoping that this move to Canada that he talked about may help start the healing as he spoke very positive about his experiences so far. That was two or three weeks ago. I do hope he will find that peace and love he is searching for.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 That's kind of what I ran into when I'd run into other natives I ran into. Although I've only run into a couple so far that weren't Latinos/as.
I think I understand why people are confused. First, we do know there will be more scriptures someday. And some may come from natives AND other places in the world. So we would expect a scenario like this someday. But we had to earn our scriptures from being good and faithful. And accepting the gospel. We didn't get them by following hate. So I don't think we can gain scriptures from that person, especially if there's hate. (This is probably why we had the lesson of the lost manuscript; else someone would say, hey I've got it right here!)
Scriptures come from the Lord. And they would be beacons of hope, peace, and Zion. So I don't think this is the source; meaning that person. But I do hope for the day that it could be so.
And if someone had scriptures, records from their peoples journey of faith, they should have more light and spirit, and some ability to discern between Americans and the people of God. And accept them. That's why there's that scripture that ... when we are at Zion we'll see eye to eye. This means seeing each other with acceptance, love, and true brotherhood. (This is a discernment key I think. I don't see it there.)
Another point is that we are living in a time where it could also be the case where some Lamanite groups are more righteous than the country is. Because that happened in the Book of Mormon. So I would think there's some of that. And... an example of this, there's a hymn video of an LDS Mongolian choir singing a church hymn that sounds like a match for that. When you listen you think wow, how could they be so humble to sing like that. And some non-English wards would be very precious.
Additional note; There is some Rigby guy going around passing out new scripture manuscripts. But when you actually look him up, he was excommunicated at some point. So... that can't be a match.
@@noahriding5780 Thanks for the information.
The nemenhah records should be read by all lds members. The endowment is in the book, in full, with heavenly mother too. Women have the greater priesthood from birth. Polygamy is fully explained (not as ideal). The future of our church is in there too. I have read it. Lds in regional South Australia 🇦🇺
I love that polygamy is finally being exposed for what it is. Nothing but filth! God is the most powerful creation in every universe put together thus having no need to sacrifice women for the use of man. That's man's doctrine. Great comment😇😇
Where did you access the Namenha record to read it?? I can only find it on Amazon but for thousands of dollars...?!
Zion Media has a google.doc of it on their channel. @@alesha5178
I'm in the process of reading it & am loving it. It's beautiful!
Mike are you a Mitchell from Idaho?
Grew up in Kaysville UT parents from SLC area
Fascinating point of view! But there iis so much you do not u derstand about the authority of the Church! Read D&C 124 again and then 101:43-66.
@@joyfulsurety well, this videos purpose was not to get into details of the authority of the church that I am curious what specifically are you trying to point out? I am most curious about your words on what you’re trying to find out. Thanks for commenting
@iamjustathinker Ifyouarejustathinker, then what did you read in those verses? It seems pretty clear to me.
@@joyfulsurety well that wasn’t the point of my video I was inviting you to elaborate on your point…
Not sure what your point is.
Not sure how to help you…
D&C 121
A beautiful metaphor? Do you have any idea the hell those poor people went through? If you want to know how it hurt the women and children to practice polygamy go read Jacob2:31. Not trying to attack you but I am not always good with words.
@@icecreamladydriver1606 there are times it went horribly wrong. You are correct! I am talking very specifically about the times it went/goes well. I have a story from my great grandma that was testifying about how beautiful it was for her and her family. I know that’s offensive to some, but it is the experience of others. Jacob 2 is an interesting and very controversial scripture. I see it different, it is something to be discussed in the future. Thanks for chiming in.
@@iamjustathinker God be with you.
You disgust me! Twisted as F, sir!
Why did brigham young murder native americans then..read your history sir.its shameful and disturbing.. im fed up of the sanirized version of its history. . The saviour never mentioned polygamy.marrying young girls who were trafficked from europe is a shameful act...having 54 wives martied to a racist like brigham young is nothimg to be proud of...he died a mllionaire who had whiskey distillaries...when does the scales fall from your eyes..respect
@@patriciafinn5717 I can see why you say what you’re saying…
I believe there are ways to address the concerns you bring up if you’re open to a new understanding.
I Don’t believe it’s about sanitizing history. The Utah war is in the history books. That’s why we even know about it. It’s only human nature to want to focus on the good so that is the history that gets discussed. yes, there’s examples on both sides of natives killing Mormons and also Mormons killing natives. It was a war and it was very complicated. I’m learning now that it was expected through the seven fires prophecy given by the three brothers to the people that level of persecution was expected. we can look with clarity at how unfortunate and bad it was… Perhaps it’s more important to look at our present day and seek reconciliation and understanding. You obviously sound passionate. I would hope you’re engaged in some sort of cause to help people that have been affected.
It’s interesting to hear you classify the girls coming from Europe as being trafficked. I imagine they’re probably was ones that would fit that description but that’s not everyone. The idea that mistakes were not made is not what I’m trying to defend. In fact, my criticism is, largely ignored the provision and requirement from the Bible regarding polygamy. I have an example in my family history or a woman was married to a man and didn’t see him for years and he left her in complete poverty. That is the history. Not perfect. So was it done wrong at times? Absolutely, I would never argue it was not.
I would imagine you hold the same animosity towards other stories in the Bible as well. If not, you should. Judge both examples by the same standards (Mormons and Bible stories). What I learned from this is simply the fact that it’s messy and we are imperfect there was only one perfect individual and that is Jesus Christ in whom all of these wrongs will one day be made right.