I work in electric. There are actually several names for breaker boxes. One of the very confusing things about construction is regional tech jargon. Tools, parts and even tasks are called different things regionally.
In a way, this is like the digital photography wave that started to rise in the 2000s. I’ve been photographing for over 20 years now and back then we’d be in awe of a 4mpx camera, or it’s successor 8mpx camera, even if they’d cost $4k or $5k. Nowadays, any decent camera will come w 24mpx or more and run you less than $1k. Same with computers and flat screen TVs. The change will come, but it’ll take a minute.
True! Most people won't buy EVs until the prices really come down on new EVs. Most gas cars have touch screens, autonomous driving and modern technologies and these gas cars cost as little as $15k new and you don't have to wait 20 to 30 minutes charging the car at a public charger.
@@hazonku 5 years? The Revolution evolution is right now!! There are 20 different EVs on the USA market.. We need to save our air now, not 5 years from now.
I'll have to wait for the public electric charging stations because: 1. I'm retired and live alone, so not having 2 cars. 2. My house is old (1947). I've owned it 21 years. Previous owners replaced original fuse box with a 100 amp FUSE box, so I'd have to put in new 200 amp main circuit breaker box and a sub box for the charger 3. My driveway is sloped like an Olympic ski jump. It goes from walkout lower level (basement) to street level in about 1.5 car lengths! In winter I don't even attempt to park at the bottom of the drive. So I took a "baby step" and bought a used 2014 Ford C-Max Hybrid crossover !?) about 3 or 4 years ago. I get around 34 mpg in my city where most the Interstate drivers think it's a Nascar circuit which requires punching it when merging. I also did quite a few genealogy road trips pre Covid which made current EVs not applicable both range wise and infrastructure wise. To steal a line from an old movie, "If you build it, they will come."
@@richstanton8545 What year do you think we are in? Its 2021.. There are thousands of public chargers.. You will receive 50% off the cost of installing a 240v outlet system.. There are plenty of EVs that have a range of over 200 miles per charge and if you need to travel beyond that your EV will take you along routes that have fast/super chargers. You don't need to stay 45 to 60 minutes at a charger, you just charge enough to get to the next charger or charge enough to get to your destination. People who are ignorant to charging believe that they have to charge 1 hour at a fast charger or wait 5 to 18 hours when charging at home.. You can charge as long or as short as you want...
It was incredibly thoughtful of you to speak to the common man's pocketbook. Too many tech shows make me cringe with the gross failure to realize cheap EVs are tantamount to all our survival
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects Wright’s law is real. The prices will come down, thanks to all those affluent people who buy EVs while they are expensive. Battery costs are expected to fall so much within a decade or so that EVs will become cheaper than ICE cars.
@@peterfireflylund This isn't a wrights law issue. The EV is a surrender to public demand after decades of OPEC mafia rule and corrupt billionaires who pay for coups in Bolivia.
In the meantime, maybe car companies could make ICE engine cars that aren't outfitted with 78 million microcomputers, and less daily drivers with 500+ hp.
@@EarthCreature. we don't need Bolivian lithium salts. There is an absurd amount of easily accessible lithium in the world. It's just that there was very little demand for it until recently, so the processes for turning lithium compounds in clay (and sea water!) into useful lithium haven't been developed much yet. So *of course* it's about Wright's law.
@@peterfireflylund NOPE.. Elon has taken billions of our tax payer funds and he should have started with an 15k price point. He started with luxury vehicles. THAT is NOT how we get our return on investment that WE as tax payers subsidized him for. So again, get your screws tightened because Wright's law has nothing to do with his misuse of our yaxes nor does it license your sycophantic ramblings apologizing for him.
@@jasons7044 it’s really because the industry standard for paint chemistry has been getting more and more strict. But yes PPF then ceramic coat over that is a great way to protect the vehicle.
I've given up on ever having an EV. But I've also given up on ever having a house and a garage to park it in. I'll keep driving my 2001 Kia Rio until the wheels fall off.
I'm in an old condo that has zero chance of ever retrofitting a charging station. I'm still highly considering an EV for my next car because both my workplace and several shopping malls have EV charging stations... if I can get a few days' worth of commuting range from a single stop then it works for me just fine.
@@willyolio9590 Honestly if you can't charge at home right now might be a better time to get a used Chevy volt they are affordable and you can find them in great condition. That way you can charge when you have a chance but won't be left stranded if you don't have a chance.
I hope my 2008 Kia Rio is the last car I'll need to own. It's the perfect car for me, and I'm hoping it lasts until robot taxis take over and make personal car ownership obsolete.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 I bought my Rio new, and it was all that I could afford. I've been *amazed* at how well it's held up. Your 2008 might just make until the robot taxis get here!
@@lyledal Yeah, I think it has a good chance of lasting until the robots take over, especially considering how little I drive. Pre-COVID I was at maybe 1000-2000 miles per year, now I'm probably under 500 miles per year due to telecommuting. I'd feel bad about neglecting a fancier expensive car like this, but the Rio has held up well despite the neglect and has a low enough market value to justify keeping it (despite being great). It's the perfect car for me IMO, and it has a CD player, so that's pretty sweet.
If you can charge at home, having a full “tank” every morning is a game-changer! I use my electric dryer outlet which is fortunately located right next to my garage to charge at about 21 miles of range per hour (mph) - easily topping off my 300 mile-range Tesla. 120V charging is at about 3 mph and only practical in a pinch (but could be an answer when visiting family over the weekend). I’ve utilized the Tesla supercharging network on a number of long distance trips with great success - given just a bit of planning. That said, without either the ability to charge at home for daily driving or access to the Tesla (only) Supercharger Network for trips, EVs are simply not there yet in terms of practicality for all the reasons noted in the video.
Bottom Line: If you have to start juggling things to drive an EV right now, just wait. The people buying an EV now should be people who don't have to think twice about it.
@@wyattnoise My brother got a 2013 Nissan Leaf in 2017 for $7,000 as a second car(80 mile range). He had the breaker pannel in his garage. He ran a NEMA 14-50 plug himself with a little over the phone coaching. He bought a 40amp Clipper Creek EVSE to plug into it. He drives the piss out of it. He can charge it in 2.5 hours. Great for short trips around town.
Bottom line, most people aren't that familiar with electric car ownership, and so they might not recognize the opportunity. My other brother just managed to buy a 2020 new Chevy Bolt for around 20k, cause the 2022 models are about to land. It has 260 mile range and 50kw charging. That is not crazy money, and anybody with a garage, and 2 cars can make that work.
Absolutely correct. People that investigate and can manage to charge at home and/or work it could possible. That's the first thing to look at. A car could have 500 miles of range and cost $2000 but it's useless if you can't charge reliably and easily in your daily life. Most people have to buy cars used anyway. So yes, in 3-5 years there will be a lot more vehicle type choices available both used, and some less expensive new models. Some people don't like to research but I spent six months looking at EV reviews and articles before getting a used Chevy Bolt. Some web surfing is free and the best way to work out what is doable for your family budget. Just understand your daily needs for range, not some crazy cross country trip you'll probably never take or could rent a gas car for.
I really appreciate this, Joe. I would love an electric vehicle, but my wife and I are just starting out and trying to buy a house. For a lot of people it's just a little too out of reach.
Oooff! Here I was feeling smug about these poor 'muricans with their *cough* third world infrastructure etc... then you go and hit me with your getting on the property ladder and that's something that makes me eat humble pie. I'm pretty sure that's something people the world over can empathise with and relate to these days.
Our EV story: Husband researches Tesla for months, finally pulls the trigger and sales his F150 truck. Model 3 arrives. Wife drives Model 3 for five minutes and thinks "Oh F#ck, well now I want one of these" Kid makes a face when he has to ride in mom's "slow car" because (and I quote!) ***"It doesn't even fart!*** Wife orders Model Y and Husband gets jealous because his wife's car is faster than his hehe... Couple realizes that the breaker box is on the complete opposite side of the house...both have mild heart attack lol The end
Its not the worst thing. If you husband has any DIY know how, running a 240v line is not difficult, as long as you have room on circuit breaker cabinet. Don't be intimatedated. A "professional " is gonna charge you 4x the price of the material
@@jasons7044 it was too complicated to DIY it...(for us anyway) and even so, the box is so far from our detached garage that it was going to be expensive anyway. That being said...we don't regret the investment a single bit. I never understood ppl who would say "I only buy Ford" (or Dodge or whatever other carmaker) ...After owning a Tesla for about a year, I think I'm one of those people lo now lol.
We got ourselves a Nissan Leaf for my 5 mile commute and my wife's 20 mile commute. It's not ideal all the time, and there are times we forget to charge when we need (We just do a 110v at home). I still love the car, but convenience-wise, it's not always there - especially since we have a single-lane no-garage situation. Other thing worth mentioning is we have a level 2 charger down the road a mile, so that helps a bunch in a pinch. During the warmer months, we can switch back and forth freely, but in the cold months (less than 40F average in a day), I usually solely take the car, as the 85 mile range during the summer becomes 60 in the winter. It's not perfect, but we do very much love it. 2016 leaf for around 10k seems like it should pan out as a good purchase in the long run, but I would be lying if I didn't mention that it is indeed limiting in many tiny annoying ways.
Most us outlets are 20A breaker, included charger is set for 15A. Cheapest solution I could find was $200 for a charger on amazon, its a $35 dongle for Tesla.. Huge upgrade when I was on 110.
@@jpmkiv Thank you for the advice! Here in a few weeks, my electrician of a dad is going to help with the intricacies, but we will be adding a 240v setup, one that preferably isn't on the same breaker as our air conditioner outlet!
I had a 2016 Leaf for a year and loved it. It got around 120 miles when fully charged though. I used it for a 40 mile round trip commute each day. Just plugged it into 110v each night, I could easily go one night during the week without charging. Ended up upgrading to a 2019 Leaf and love it. Finally installed a 240v outlet myself after three years of EV ownership. Parts were around $60 with the heavy gauge wire being the most expensive part. I would not recommend an EV unless you own a house or live in an apartment with EV chargers (or at least a convenient outlet you can use).
Problem is in roughly 80,000 miles it's pretty much junk. I wanted to get a used one with a bad battery and replace it with a refurbished one for $3000 like I had read about. Get the car for about $4000. (I'm 56 and this would be the most I've ever spent on a vehicle. I buy broken down vehicles and fix them for around $1000 total including the price of the vehicle) However that doesn't seem to exist. There's no refurbished ones. So I checked on a new battery that Nissan offered for around $5000. That doesn't exist either, they want $11,500 for a battery plus an adapter kit.. That's ridiculous. It's like battery powered tools. The tool can be an excellent shape but once the battery goes bad throw it in the trash. I can get an awesome nice used gas vehicle for $16,000. EVs will never make it unless they can get the battery to last 600,000 miles in every condition. democRATS are going to drive the price of gas up to try to force people to get EVs.
Thank you Joe! I am tired of people talking like 40k isn’t a big deal to spend on a vehicle. I have to pay ridiculous rent prices as it is, so I can only ever afford used vehicles at the moment. I managed to get my hands on a used plug in hybrid, but the full EVs with sufficient range just aren’t there yet. And while I appreciate what Tesla has done, I think it is time they introduce a “budget” model without all the bells and whistles.
If you tally up the hardware costs for all the bells and whistles Inna Model 3, it can probably only be 5k cheaper if they drop the computer and cameras, so they have a way to go.
Most people can't afford a new car and that's normal. Gas prices are high in California, but many places are still below $3/gallon. Keeping a used Prius out of the scrapyard and well-maintained on the road is better than spending resources on a new vehicle, especially when Tesla can't build cars or batteries fast enough. I have built 2 DIY ebikes since 2020. With some help from a local bike shop of course. I can pull my kids in a trailer to the park with clean electric and human bike power while keeping a car off the road and getting exercise. Saves me $ on vehicle fees at certain parks. Meanwhile I am saving up for Cybertruck to use as a business rental asset until it's paid off. That's the only way I can justify that kind of money ($57k after FSD) on a vehicle. Tesla doesn't and should not compromise on safety, quality, or longevity. The FSD suite costs money to install but has huge potential to save lives. Battery range under 200 miles might be feasible for a robo-taxi service but it's too limiting for Tesla to release as a consumer vehicle. Brands fail when they get cheap.
Hello Joe, good advice to those looking to have an EV. We were lucky to be only 5 kilometres from a Supercharger at our local Mall when we purchased our Model 3 DM in September 2018. We live in an apartment without any charging infrastructure, so to date I have never used the mobile charger and only L2’s in an emergency. This means that about 99% of the 95,000 kilometres driven (16,400 kWh; 174 Wh/km) have been using the Supercharger network with only 4.5% battery degradation. Keep up the good work!
Those are some pretty nice numbers for constant supercharging! Out of curiosity how many kW do you supercharge at and what % do you usually charge / discharge to? I ask as I had heard people who supercharge all the time often see substantially increased battery degradation due to the high charge rate buy yours seems fine!
Our discharge limit is usually 25% to 20% (orange) and charge limit is usually 80% if parking at home or 90% for road trips. Every two months we go to V3 and charge to 100% and then go for a nice drive. Our regular Supercharger is a V2 so maxes to 135 kW from 20% to 50% and gradually decreases to 35 kW at 90% with a charge time of 30 to 40 minutes. At the V3 it maxes at 245 kW at 20% with a tapering off to about 30 kW at 90% with a charge time of 25 to 30 minute and near 5 kW at 100% with charge time over 50 minutes.
In Norway the building code now requires all new apartment buildings to put in the infrastructure for EV charging. In Britain new lamp posts in densely populated areas will be equipped with charging ports. And some new cars that are on the way (like the Sono) have integrated solar panels in the bodywork. The MG ZS EV is pretty much a full blown SUV and in Norway comes in around USD 240 000.
You mean around 240 000 NOK for the MG! In USD that's around 30 000. As for solar panels on the car... yeah neat quirk, but there's only so much surface on a car, completely insufficient unless you're not driving much and living in a flat, sparsely populated southern region. (In which case it probably makes more sense to stay with a used diesel car for a while; electric makes sense precisely for driving _often_ in _densely_ populated regions, otherwise it'll take ages before you've offset the environmental impact of the battery production.)
@@leftaroundabout Sorry, my currency conversion got lost half way. You are right about solar panels on a car currently not having enough oomph for it to be something you can rely on for using as sole source of energy. I was more thinking along the lines of Joe saying going to his dad puts the car on the limit of his range, panels charging the car while visiting might give you enough reserve to lower your heart rate.
Perfectly good point about low-level charging infrastructure. My sister works at the Environment ministry, but because she lives downtown to be more "local", she only has access to street parking... It is especially frustrating that solutions for this already exist in the UK, where they have charging pilars embeddable in the sidewalks. But seriously, cities already have street lights! The electricity is already there!
I think people sometimes overlook statistics. Yes, $30k is a ton of money for most people... but on the flip side, the median new car price in the US last year was $37k, so even a base Model 3 is (currently) only $2k over the median new car price. So, that perspective is important. There are also plenty of people dropping $50-70k for a pickup truck they'll hardly ever use to haul anything, because 'Murica.
I'm 56 years old. I own an HVAC company. I drive 3,500 mile per month. I've never ever spent over $3500 on a vehicle. I usually spend less than $1000. I buy them broken down and fix them. That's $1000 for the vehicle including fixing it. If i had to buy a EV every 80,000 miles (that seems to be the mileage the battery declines overall according to the hundreds of used EVs I've looked at) I'd be out of business. I get 580,000 miles out of my Chevy vans.
Appreciate the clarity and honesty. The one thing you did not touch on, but kind of opened with, is service.. on a 2000s Jetta.. Nobody has seen these vehicles 10-15 years after warranty.. you should
Hey Joe. Now would be a great time to update this video. 2022 was a great year for EVs. I am fortunate in that I too am luck enough to be able to afford this. My wife and I purchased 2 EVs in 2022, a Ford F-150 and a Hyundai Ioniq 5. We were able to purchase each without ordering one from the dealership. It requires considerable research, lots of phone call and a willingness to travel a bit to find what you are looking for. I feel giving this one another look and perhaps even look at some new EVs like the Aptera that has a thousand mile per charge option and is covered in solar panels. Great work and I love your site.
I bought a 2012 Nissan Leaf two months ago for $4,300. It's got an average range around 48 miles on a charge. We live in the burbs outside Seattle and virtually all my driving is less than 20 miles. I bought the Leaf because it's stupid cheap to run not because I'm trying to save the planet. The car had 43k miles on it and because EV don't have reciprocating bits they don't vibrate, which means the Leaf looked and felt almost brand new. We live in an apartment and fortunately for us our parking bay is by the side of our home and because our range use is low I can fully charge the car overnight.The Leaf may look fugly but it rides creamy smooth, is almost silent and nothing seems to go wrong. For us it's a great car solution and if we need a long distance car we'll rent it.
@@macberry4048 I hate to say but I don't know because I haven't seen a change in our electricity bill over the past two months. The Leaf is being charged via a 110V outside outlet and on the odd occasion where I got the battery down to single digits it was always recharged by the next morning. I've used the high speed CHADEMO chargers when I took it down to Tacoma and it cost me a bit over $6 to fully recharge and it took about 35 minutes while I had lunch. This was the only time I had an out of pocket 'fuel' expense. The car is the exact opposite of an ICE car. Freeway driving puts a load on the battery whereas stop and go city driving doesn't. The Leaf can sit in traffic all day if the AC/heat is turned off. Since we live in Western Washington the environment is almost perfect for the Leaf, for example if we lived in somewhere like Arizona or New Mexico I would never had considered it because of the issue of battery temperature management. The Leaf is without doubt the cheapest car I have ever owned. No oil changes, no real 'fuel' costs and nothing seems to be breaking. As long as I look after the battery at it's current condition If I want to I'll be able to sell the car for what I paid for it ( I paid cash). Oh, BTW the state of Washington waives the sales tax on EV purchases up to I think $15,000.
Currently leasing Hyundai Kona EV in Australia - 62K on the road. Yes, expensive as cars go but so worth it! I travel between where I work & my farm (230 km one way) & top up with my Tesla Powerwall & solar panels. Not having to get fuel is fantastic. When I’m not on the farm I plug in to a standard wall outlet on a slow trickle during the night when the power price is low. I use to drive an Amarok diesel Ute for six years doing this same round trip - I’m glad to be part of the solution & be paying back for my CO2 footprint.
All true and good points Joe, we bought the Kia Niro and it has been awesome. Add a few solar panels to my garage roof and the electric car would be almost free fuel. I see a huge market coming and a shift in some businesses that is going to change our normal life styles. How about wireless charge stations that you just park over a pad that charges the car just to name a few future events. Tesla charge stations at all Mc Donalds and Starbucks LOLOL :)
I live in one of those small rural towns without supercharging anywhere near. The places I am more likely to make quick day trips to are more likely to have charging options for my return trip. If you charge at home, you don’t need to live where there is fast charging equipment nearby.
Joe's conclusion is good. In 2017, i bought a used 2014 Nissan Leaf. Now, in 2021, it is 7 years old and allows me 90+ miles in the summer and 85 miles in the winter. Not a lot, but more than I need we *rarely* ever need to drive more than 50 or 60 miles in a day. I had been saving money for the used car purchase, so there's no loan. I call it fantastic, for local driving.
@@mattcooper1159 Just this time... I’ve driven a Tesla for the last 3 years and my brother has for the last 2. He and I live close to the charging station in South St. Louis. Our parents live (and I work) 75 miles away. Our parents have a dryer outlet that we charge with. When we come south to visit friends or go to the park, we have to watch our charge so we don’t run low, because WE have to go all the way back north to charge unless we are visiting mom and dad. When we stay over, we WAKE UP with a full charge! We can head north, East, West to the St. Louis area, or South to Southeast Mo. State and we will be fine! ALL of those places will have a supercharger when we run low! I realize that it is counterintuitive, but you are better off if you have charging stations at about 100-200 miles in either direction from your home! Why would we need to charge down the street when we woke up with a full 250-400 mile charge? It defies logic, if you’re an experienced EV driver!
This is the most levelheaded EV perspective I’ve heard. I know most EV owners have views in line with you, but it’s just a relief to see this from a prominent UA-camr on the internet.
Only 2-3 min? When I drove a car in Vienna years ago I had search for over 30 min to find something. Since then you have to have some kind of ID for your car on your car to be legally able to park (or you pay an hourly fee). I don't drive now but even from this perspective it became so much better!
@@breadman32398 I forgot, charging is dirt cheap in the US! If you needed to pay 40C Per kWh like in Europe IT is like getting 20mpg on gasoline in your cybertruck. I dont presume IT Will be and export success?
@@MarcillaSmith Maybe IT is the brands THAT Don't care? Market the same cars, to the same segments, now just with batteries, so you Don't have to change your self perception or your lifestyle?
Great video Joe! Very balanced views. May I recommend The Fully Charged channel for keeping up with what is going on with EVs they have some great tips on starting out with Them too.
Thanks for this honest conversation. So many people will just say “ban has cars, require everyone to have solar, etc.” without any thought for the majority of the country that can’t afford a car payment that is the same as their rent, or the $10k+ for solar panels. I’m someone who doesn’t like having a car payment, so being able to afford a used car for Cash is a preferred option even tho I would love a Tesla. Also, as someone who drives a work van during the week, the biggest issue would be range. Some days I only drive 50 miles, but I’ve had days where I do 350 miles. The other issue with that is a lot of people who drive work vehicles drive them home and unless the company sets up a way to track how much charge you use, you would end up paying for “fuel” for your company.
@Zappa Wench. If you factor in the real cost of purchase, owning, maintenance fuel etc...a Tesla Model 3 is the best bargain on the market, bar none. It all comes down to whether you have a place to mount a charging receptacle.
@@johncahill3644 You are right, but the problem is, it doesnt affect the sticker price, and if you dont have the investment to buy now, you can't reap the rewards of long term savings in the future.
If you can't stretch it for full electric, there are some good plug in hybrid options. We have 1 car and I needed a 5 seater with range that works great in the winter and opted for a Honda Clarity plug in. It has been great and cut my gas consumption by almost 60 % (vs. a Sonata Hybrid). Not full electric, but really efficient.
Anyone lucky enough to be able to buy a brand new EV today is just paving the way for the Used Car market the rest of us are waiting for. We need you guys creating the inventory, and would love to hear more about the Company Fleet situation as these generate a good vehicle turnover for the used car buyer.
Yes electric cars are expensive for a lot of us, but don't ever feel bad or apologize for being successful. You worked hard to get to the position you're in and I'm happy for you. Keep up the good work electric cars will get cheaper as the years go on.
its not about apologizing that he is successful, its about acknowledging that the average person in this country makes about $28,000 A YEAR BEFORE TAXES.
Thanks for the reality check. I bought a 2015 Nissan Leaf 6 months ago and only paid $8k for it. It's in terrific shape, and it's been a great learning experience. I only use it for running around locally, but think a road trip would be sketchy at this point. For most people a hybrid makes more sense.
Great video, as usual!! I live in a rural area. My friend who has an EV has a soalr battery and charges her car with that. If the the electricity you get at your house is generated by coal, as many grids still are, then charging with a soalr charger makes sense for those of us trying to switch to more renewable energy anyway. Also, the "early adopters" are important for all new technologies. EVs will get cheaper and more efficient! Thanks Joe! Love ya Bro!
That won't happen anytime soon. Combination of LifeSpan and Availability. There is not enough BEVs to be dirt cheap. The ones that are bottom of the barrel cheap also most likely means battery is in poor condition. Soo it's just difficult right now. But cheap several grand one in decent condition is doable.
@@Neojhun Aye, I know it's a long way off, but a significant portion of the population will never get on board until they can afford one outright. I personally have never spent more than £1000 (~$1400) on a car, and probably never will. I'm certainly not going to put myself into debt for 5+ years for one.
Non self driving will be illegal or heavily regulated before that happens. Other than Leaf or other non-Tesla vehicles (Tesla will never let their used go that cheap). New vehicle sales will be over 80% electric before the used market is that cheap. Even when new vehicle sales are 100% electric there will be petrol vehicles on the road for years afterwards. Further CO2 reduction & absorption is going to best be dealt with in terms of agriculture at that point.
I live in this place that's markedly colder than Texas normally is. People in apartments often have condominiums. The condo boards tend to arrange outlets for ICE preheating in parking lots. That's a really good option for level 1 charging with the infrastructure already in place. And even in rental apartments that offer parking, putting up some poles
with outlets is no big deal for landlords. You can hook it up to that residents electricity meter. Makes you a more attractive landlord. Also, I wish we'd stop talking so much about charge boxes. They're totally uneccessary and I see from my own experience how they complicate the thinking of ICE vehicle owners on condo boards trying to decide about arranging charging for their members. All you need is an outlet. In the best of worlds, it's also wired to my electricity meter.
They're already here! I see Chevy Bolt's on Carmax. 250 summer range (150 in Chicago winter) which is plenty for 97% of people. Assuming they don't expect all the luxury and advanced tech that the 50 grand cars have. My 2017 Bolt is awesome and coming from a 2002 Camry it's like a spaceship, and the first scheduled service is at 150K miles to just change the coolant. Some people are picking up 2020 new Bolt's for $21K right now as they're moving those out ahead of the coming models.
Need more infrastructure for charging...and need that charging speed to be much faster. There are plenty of rich people who will continue choosing gasoline vehicles due to the fact we don't have the charging infrastructure in place to properly replace the very strong network of gasoline stations around the country. You even have those gasoline stations in tiny towns, where there is zero option to charge an electric vehicle.
Just wanted to say thank you Joe for addressing the reality of owning an e-auto. I have been wanting to get one for years now but, you said, the cost to get in to e-mobility is still too high for my budget. I have the perfect situation with a house and a carport (the carport has a 240 volt outlet!) but I will have to wait until the used car market has something to offer. I enjoy your channel and please keep up the good work!
Charged our used 2012 Leaf on our farm with an extension cord almost every night. Buying it was a financial decision, as the extra cost were covered after two years of much lower running and maintenance costs. We tow waste food for animals every day, so lots of kilometres. Still charged our 2019 Leaf from a lead for 6 months every 3rd night. Still only charge from our wall charger every 3 days. Add solar, and charging cost are almost zero if you are at home during the day.
Three or four years ago my brother and I did a 900 mile round trip in a 2014 Model 3. At that time I said they weren't ready for prime time. With today's extended range and increased charging infrastructure, I think most of my concerns would be gone. My 2002 RAV4-EV has seen three standard maintenance visits in the 11 years I've owned it, though, at an average MPGe of over 110. So life cost of ownership tends to even out the purchase price premiums. And, in the next year or two, actual affordable used electrics should start showing up.
In Quebec, there are 100,000 EVs on the roads for a population of 8 million inhabitants. As long as you have a charging station at home, there is no problem. I have a Model 3 all-wheel drive. My car performs well even at -25C. In winter when it's under -20C, I lose about 40% of autonomy. For my everyday life, this is not a problem.
@@LamarreAlexandre Right, I'm just afraid people always hear it's "no problem" when they should be aware that home or work charging is a must in cold places. It would suck if I couldn't charge at home
Joe also didn't mention if you drive a diesel in a cold climate you are always worried it won't start and you have to plug it in every day. Yea, lots of vehicles have compromises. EVs do too. lol
EV penetration is by far the biggest in Norway, a very northern country, Norway has the most northern Tesla Supercharger station, which is within the pole circle. Cold weather does affect range, but my impression is it is quite overblown, Norwegians do seem to have much issue with this. Watch Björn Neyland's YT channel he tests all kind of electric vehicles in Norway, also shows charging is no problem in Norway.
I had an EV for 3 years until a year ago in the UK (Renault Zoe ZE40). It actually had a reasonable purchase price and I only sold it out of boredom in the end and bought a sports car (the Zoe is worthy but dull if you are a car enthusiast). New EVs are still a lot of money here (a lot more than I paid 4 years ago - heavy discounts then because they weren't selling as well as now). I got on fine with mine but I am a bit nerdy and actually enjoyed planning where to charge on longer journeys, this really wouldn't be for everyone. I am also able to charge at home, essential in my view with the present infrastructure. Great overview and well reasoned thoughts as usual.
Would love an Electric car (am in Australia), but even the base model 3 is US$51200 (no options - white), and for way cheaper than that US$26700 for a new Camy in any colour. It is prohibitive over here, which makes me a bit sad... :(
But no mass production ars are made here at all! en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Australia#:~:text=Australian%20manufacture%20of%20cars%20rose,still%20exceeded%20400%2C000%20in%202004.&text=However%2C%20the%20Ford%20Australia%20engine,factories%20closed%20in%20late%202017.
Thanks for this video! I appreciate your balanced and honest perspective. No matter what choices we make in life there are always tradeoffs and cost and benefits.
This gets confused by many outside the U.S. The fact is, the U.S. has 240V service at the panel, but individual circuits are sliced to 120V for the majority of smaller appliances. 240V circuits are still used for EV charging, welding, electric dryers, electric ovens, electric water heaters, electric ranges... etc
Great points, totally agree. One point of clarification, if you live in a rural area and can charge at home, your circle of available range starts at that point. So if you typically drive toward charging infrastructure you should be fine. Like Joe says, getting to his dad’s and back is tough, but if he can leave his dad’s with a charge it’s not a problem.
We got a used 2016 Nissan Leaf in February. We are currently rolling with the 110v charger for now and it is going great. We have a Corolla for long drives. Absolutely loving the EV life. The Corolla will be replaced with a longer range EV in 3-5 years when some good used options are available.
Great talk! I wish you'd said more about the plug-in hybrid option. They are still expensive, but ours lets all our around town driving be electric and still lets us hit the road for long trips to visit family without having anxiety about how to make the vehicle go. No garage hasn't been an issue because 110V charging works fine to recharge most PHEVs overnight.
Thank you for talking about this. I have been going back forth on the f-150 so this is helpful. No new info for me really but it is always nice to hear people of opinions
Bought a 2016 Soul EV Plus model for $15k a couple years back. The range could use a boost, but it is the most comfortable, reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
That was very US-centric (understandably), but I'm surprised there was no mention of China and the forthcoming invasion of Chinese EVs that is going to totally disrupt the EV market to the point where there will almost certainly be casualties within the traditional car manufacturers' gang. It'll be very much like the impact that the Japanese had on manufacturing in the 60s - 80s.
As far as work trucks go, it's going to be extremely difficult to get adequate range out of an EV while towing. From what I've seen, once a trailer is hooked up, the range falls through the floor.
What year Scott? I had a 2006 jetta 2.5. Got it in 2010 with 50k miles. Got rid of it at 125k. Had electrical issues. The front windows stopped working. Fixed them. Drivers stopped again. Oil leaks, coolant. The sunroof would drain was blocked with debris so when it rained the back floor would flood. Fun times
@@ScrapKing73 Would be a wonderful vehicle. I had a 2018 and it was great. I was heart broken that the new version didn't make it to the States. But the older versions are dirt cheap if you only need an around town car.
Rates are off-peak here from 11pm to 9am. Just using the standard wall charger we get 5mi/hr which is enough for daily commuting. If we have a longer trip or drive extra during the week we can either charge all day Saturday and Sunday when rates are off peak or just charge on high rate when necessary. This is super rare after 9 months of having the model y
Another thing to note with charging at home is that it can spike your power bill really high. In my family alone, with 18 solar panels and living in SoCal, we still spend over $120 a month on electricity alone, which only got worse with covid because now all of my kids are schooling from home. An EV would, yeah, probably cost less per month than gasoline, but would still spike the power bill up, which would disqualify my family from Edison bonuses and cost us more per kwh because we're using more per month.
@@Jcewazhere ok so it has happened 2x in 2 months...but I didn't expect people to even recognize the leaf as an electric. Maybe it's the 'zero emissions' written down the side...
@@thomashiggins9320 Video sponsored by Formula E, who PAID for it to be made, so I have as much faith in that video as I do about the big sky daddy. (ie, less than 0)
Import to add: Compliance Cars - My research in looking for used EV's has shown that you pay based on range. Compliance cars like the Leaf and 500e can be purchased much cheaper, but are special purpose vehicles. Education on charging infrastructure is import too. Sites like PlugShare will help people make decisions of whether an EV will work for them too. And I am very bummed about OLF! You guys helped get us through a rough year!
Please consider doing OLF once per month or two instead of ending it entirely. Such an episode would be anyways more interesting because it summarizes 1 month.
I'm a mobile detailer and I just got my fully electric Ford E Transit 250 cargo van. Pretty sure it's the 1st commercial EV available in the US. Getting approx 2mi / kWh hwy and up to 3+ miles/kWh in the city. The range won't work for everyone but this is SO much better than my gas van that I retired
Well said Joe. 30k is a huge chunk of money for most people to come up with. I have a Leaf and the payments are significant. Prices are getting there, slowly. Great video.
240V is standard at the panel here in the States. We usually cut that in half (120V) for the majority of smaller household appliances. All larger electrical appliances are 240V. Amperage would be the barrier for some households with maxed out panels. A 15 amp (240V) EVSE wouldn't be much of a burden for the majority of households, but those with incredibly long commutes may need a higher amperage 240V circuit that could potentially require a significant panel upgrade.
I love that ya'll forced Tesla to standardize their plugs, but Bill is right about the 240 here. I could run an extension from my dryer outlet to my car and charge quicker, but so far the basic outlet has been enough for me.
Dont feel bad for the choices you have made that have put you in the position of being able to afford an EV. I am tired of people being ashamed for making good choices and working hard.
There's a difference between feeling bad about it and acknowledging that not everyone had those opportunities. I've been pretty lucky, my family has 2x 6 figure incomes. We will have a Cybertruck if it comes to Australia, because it will be literally the only off roadable EV available, and we only want one car. Right now, to do the adventuring our family wants, in Australia, there are zero options that aren't diesel. Competition is good, so the more EVs available to the general public the better. Most people will only drive used, so we need lots of new EVs being sold now so the used market can pick up in a few years.
Vancouver BC is getting a lot better with charging. I see charging stations in most parking lots now and also employers are starting to have charging stations available for employees. Here's an interesting tidbit about Canada, in very cold locations most vehicles have block heaters to keep the engine warm so we can start the car in 40 below. So I remember stores would have places in parking lots to plug in your block heater. I remember taking my husband (raised in Vancouver where it never gets 40 below) to my hometown and we stopped at the liquor store. He was amazed the small town was preparing for EV!! I told him those plugs were there in the 70's/80's so we knew about EV way back then (which technically there were EVs in the 70's - you should do a video on that!).
Yep, we need all the things!!! But we have built entire systems and infrastructures around cars in allot of places, and we can probably produce EVs faster than tearing up suburbia.
Electric vehicles aren't the answer, just a piece of the pie. We're seeing a mass exodus within large U.S. cities into less developed regions. Rather the decision to move is financially related, or simply desired during Covid, the primary mode of transportation will be personal automobiles for many millions into the foreseeable future.
We were lucky enough to be able to add a 40 amp 240 volt circuit to the outside wall of our house when building an addition. Later we found a used Chevy bolt with 20k miles for under $15k. So far I save about $90 a month in fuel compared to my old truck. So far it seems like it's definitely the way to go.
I can appreciate all your points for the USA, where distances can be greater. In the UK and Europe, living with an EV really doesn't need to be a compromise, even if you can't charge at home. I can charge at work on a Zappi Type 2 [and it's FREE], so I get the best of both worlds, I guess. In the UK and Europe there is little [in convenience, costs are another thing] to stop people making the jump from FFV to BEV. And a significant and quickly growing number of people have.
Nice to hear a view on this that doesn't expect us all to have 30k (minimum) excess to spend on a car. EVs are great for the upper classes at the moment, but the rest of us we're going to have to wait a while before cars with a decent range are down in the second hand market.
As someone living in the Great White North, I would be all for getting an EV, but we just don't have the infrastructure readily available to support a wide charging network yet. Once there are improvements to the infrastructure, and they become more competitively priced relative to their internal combustion counterparts, I will strongly reconsider purchasing one.
Electrified parking meters would be a great solution for city slickers like me. We already have an online parking system for my city with an app that you can use to pay, so all they need to do is run the cabling to each parking space. I imagine you would first pay for your time on the meter, then current would start flowing to your car and you would be later billed for what power you used. If you add a small “Convenience fee” for charging (which the parking meter app already has), then the city could make back the cost in no time.
Why? Soon the car will just drive to the charging station, to park, or to pick the next customer while you are not using it. Why pay the parking meter?
@@davidbeppler3032 good point, but I feel like that reality is still kinda far away. Before we can get there, we first need to increase the number of EVs on the road, and that won’t happen if we don’t have the infrastructure to support them. Also, a group charging system wouldn’t really work in my city since there aren’t many large public parking lots, so a car would probably still need to park somewhere on the side of the road to charge. In that case, the parking meter chargers could be transitioned to regular charging systems when the need arises
My second vehicle cost $6,000, is paid for and gets 75 mpg. Top speed is 90 mph and the range is 255 miles. The main tank is 3.4 gallons. If I added a 1 gallon fuel tank the range would be 330 miles. Annual insurance is $190. Yamaha XMAX 300. Perfect for around town, and 9 months a year it's fine for commuting to work. And it's another form of recreation that's very enjoyable. Nice storage under the seat, enough for two full face helmets or grocery runs. It's just nice to be able to go somewhere and not be sitting in a chair. It's therapeutic.
When buying a used EV, one factor to consider is battery life. Depending upon how many cycles the previous owner has put the battery through, the battery might be ready for replacement. A new battery typically costs thousands of dollars, so you might have to factor that into the total cost of a used EV.
Joe. Plug in when you visit your dad. Resistance is most at the very top of your range. To 80% the charge is relatively quick even on 110v. What ever you get from plugging in, even for a little while it will give you quite a few miles before it slows down.
Going to share my experience, I own a 2013 Nissan Leaf for almost 2 years now. It will do 120km (75mi) of city driving or 90km (55mi) highway. That isn't much but it does have 50kW fast charging. The car was around 10k, we have 3 kids and one income, and the car fits our needs. My work is close by, most family isn't far either and whenever we make a longer trip, the fast charging infrastructure in the Netherlands is adequate. I've been to Amsterdam (about 125km away) with one charging stop on the way there and one on the way back. It took us 20 minutes extra total but the kids enjoyed the small break. Oh, at home I've got a cheap charger that I installed myself. It's literally a power brick (like the mobile 'emergency' charger) screwed to the back of a pretty wooden pole in front of my house. The cable is long enough to cross the sidewalk and reach three of the open parking spots in front of our house. I just toss a cable bridge over it and everything is fine. Cost? 100 bucks for the charger through aliexpress and 20 for the outdoor rated electrical cable and stuff. What I'm saying is: it will work great for some, and not for others. But most people just don't want to let go of what they know until everything is easy. And I get that. But to be honest, being able to 'refuel' at home is the best thing ever.
Thanks. I was just looking and there was a clear spot where the range to price ratio of used cars hits a cliff, and it was almost at my price point. The lack of chargers put it out of my range for now. On a side note, I own a 98 Subaru. About 7 or 8 years ago I had to dump more then a couple $k into the engine and the choice paid for it self. Now it is time to put in another $1.5k or let her go. I think getting the most out of a vehicle is about stretching the environmental cost of building it in the first place.
Good video, Joe. I think this period where people are now more aware of EVs and want them but can't yet get one is good because it shows we are beginning the transition away from the ICE. Now it's a matter of scaling infrastructure and production much further, so EVs can be properly supported and affordable to most. It's gonna be a long process and it's hard for people to wait, but we have to do the work to lead to a better future. Those who can afford an EV now are voting with their money and incentivizing the industry to continue.
I couldn't find any EV in my price range and availability in my area so I ended up getting an PHEV the 2017 Chevy Volt. It gets about 60 miles on a single charge and since I got it three months ago I still haven't put any fuel in it. So for a $15K car it is a good deal for me. I also average about 3 miles per kWh.
I like the idea of NOT plugging in. That most carparks, homes etc will have inductive car charging!! No fussing with cables or plugs, you just park the car and it recharges automatically.
Way to many people with pacemakers, battery swapping is unpopular too. www.adaptive-city-mobility.de/technische-daten/ some people have trials of that still though
"Power panel...electric box...fuse box...breaker panel" - Joe Scott, master of technical jargon
Makes me wonder, when will EVs incorporate the encabulator. Comes in many varieties, but none for EVs yet. Look it up for a laugh.
“Not adapter... plug “
I work in electric. There are actually several names for breaker boxes. One of the very confusing things about construction is regional tech jargon. Tools, parts and even tasks are called different things regionally.
"the box" *stares off into space*
Insert 5 second commercial
"Anyways it was right next to my car"
My experience lolol
@@drewharrison6433 frustrating to say the least
In a way, this is like the digital photography wave that started to rise in the 2000s. I’ve been photographing for over 20 years now and back then we’d be in awe of a 4mpx camera, or it’s successor 8mpx camera, even if they’d cost $4k or $5k. Nowadays, any decent camera will come w 24mpx or more and run you less than $1k. Same with computers and flat screen TVs. The change will come, but it’ll take a minute.
True!
Most people won't buy EVs until the prices really come down on new EVs. Most gas cars have touch screens, autonomous driving and modern technologies and these gas cars cost as little as $15k new and you don't have to wait 20 to 30 minutes charging the car at a public charger.
Good analogy, and exactly the same take I have with EVs right now. I'll wait another 5 years & see what's what.
@@hazonku
5 years? The Revolution evolution is right now!! There are 20 different EVs on the USA market..
We need to save our air now, not 5 years from now.
I'll have to wait for the public electric charging stations because:
1. I'm retired and live alone, so not having 2 cars.
2. My house is old (1947). I've owned it 21 years. Previous owners replaced original fuse box with a 100 amp FUSE box, so I'd have to put in new 200 amp main circuit breaker box and a sub box for the charger
3. My driveway is sloped like an Olympic ski jump. It goes from walkout lower level (basement) to street level in about 1.5 car lengths! In winter I don't even attempt to park at the bottom of the drive.
So I took a "baby step" and bought a used 2014 Ford C-Max Hybrid crossover !?) about 3 or 4 years ago. I get around 34 mpg in my city where most the Interstate drivers think it's a Nascar circuit which requires punching it when merging.
I also did quite a few genealogy road trips pre Covid which made current EVs not applicable both range wise and infrastructure wise.
To steal a line from an old movie,
"If you build it, they will come."
@@richstanton8545
What year do you think we are in?
Its 2021.. There are thousands of public chargers.. You will receive 50% off the cost of installing a 240v outlet system.. There are plenty of EVs that have a range of over 200 miles per charge and if you need to travel beyond that your EV will take you along routes that have fast/super chargers. You don't need to stay 45 to 60 minutes at a charger, you just charge enough to get to the next charger or charge enough to get to your destination.
People who are ignorant to charging believe that they have to charge 1 hour at a fast charger or wait 5 to 18 hours when charging at home..
You can charge as long or as short as you want...
It was incredibly thoughtful of you to speak to the common man's pocketbook. Too many tech shows make me cringe with the gross failure to realize cheap EVs are tantamount to all our survival
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects
Wright’s law is real. The prices will come down, thanks to all those affluent people who buy EVs while they are expensive. Battery costs are expected to fall so much within a decade or so that EVs will become cheaper than ICE cars.
@@peterfireflylund This isn't a wrights law issue. The EV is a surrender to public demand after decades of OPEC mafia rule and corrupt billionaires who pay for coups in Bolivia.
In the meantime, maybe car companies could make ICE engine cars that aren't outfitted with 78 million microcomputers, and less daily drivers with 500+ hp.
@@EarthCreature. we don't need Bolivian lithium salts. There is an absurd amount of easily accessible lithium in the world. It's just that there was very little demand for it until recently, so the processes for turning lithium compounds in clay (and sea water!) into useful lithium haven't been developed much yet.
So *of course* it's about Wright's law.
@@peterfireflylund NOPE.. Elon has taken billions of our tax payer funds and he should have started with an 15k price point. He started with luxury vehicles. THAT is NOT how we get our return on investment that WE as tax payers subsidized him for. So again, get your screws tightened because Wright's law has nothing to do with his misuse of our yaxes nor does it license your sycophantic ramblings apologizing for him.
My parents just got a Model Y after driving a Honda Odyssey for 18+ years. I'm SUPER excited and I hope it comes without too many issues 🤞🤞
Tell them to get PPF (paint protection film). Worse thing about tesla is how easy the paint chips
@@jasons7044 it’s really because the industry standard for paint chemistry has been getting more and more strict.
But yes PPF then ceramic coat over that is a great way to protect the vehicle.
I would say the issues are included free of charge, but they actually upcharge for them.
@@paulleddy3185 civic SI lol
@@paulleddy3185 Probably in Toledo, I suppose.
I've given up on ever having an EV. But I've also given up on ever having a house and a garage to park it in.
I'll keep driving my 2001 Kia Rio until the wheels fall off.
I'm in an old condo that has zero chance of ever retrofitting a charging station.
I'm still highly considering an EV for my next car because both my workplace and several shopping malls have EV charging stations... if I can get a few days' worth of commuting range from a single stop then it works for me just fine.
@@willyolio9590 Honestly if you can't charge at home right now might be a better time to get a used Chevy volt they are affordable and you can find them in great condition. That way you can charge when you have a chance but won't be left stranded if you don't have a chance.
I hope my 2008 Kia Rio is the last car I'll need to own. It's the perfect car for me, and I'm hoping it lasts until robot taxis take over and make personal car ownership obsolete.
@@ordinaryhuman5645 I bought my Rio new, and it was all that I could afford. I've been *amazed* at how well it's held up. Your 2008 might just make until the robot taxis get here!
@@lyledal Yeah, I think it has a good chance of lasting until the robots take over, especially considering how little I drive. Pre-COVID I was at maybe 1000-2000 miles per year, now I'm probably under 500 miles per year due to telecommuting.
I'd feel bad about neglecting a fancier expensive car like this, but the Rio has held up well despite the neglect and has a low enough market value to justify keeping it (despite being great). It's the perfect car for me IMO, and it has a CD player, so that's pretty sweet.
If you can charge at home, having a full “tank” every morning is a game-changer! I use my electric dryer outlet which is fortunately located right next to my garage to charge at about 21 miles of range per hour (mph) - easily topping off my 300 mile-range Tesla. 120V charging is at about 3 mph and only practical in a pinch (but could be an answer when visiting family over the weekend). I’ve utilized the Tesla supercharging network on a number of long distance trips with great success - given just a bit of planning. That said, without either the ability to charge at home for daily driving or access to the Tesla (only) Supercharger Network for trips, EVs are simply not there yet in terms of practicality for all the reasons noted in the video.
Does it cost a lot to renew the registration/taxes each year?
Bottom Line: If you have to start juggling things to drive an EV right now, just wait. The people buying an EV now should be people who don't have to think twice about it.
So wealthy people. Got it.
@@wyattnoise Could also be other considerations like Charging Infrastructure Availability in your Area etc. but yeah, money is the big one.
@@wyattnoise My brother got a 2013 Nissan Leaf in 2017 for $7,000 as a second car(80 mile range). He had the breaker pannel in his garage. He ran a NEMA 14-50 plug himself with a little over the phone coaching. He bought a 40amp Clipper Creek EVSE to plug into it. He drives the piss out of it. He can charge it in 2.5 hours. Great for short trips around town.
Bottom line, most people aren't that familiar with electric car ownership, and so they might not recognize the opportunity. My other brother just managed to buy a 2020 new Chevy Bolt for around 20k, cause the 2022 models are about to land. It has 260 mile range and 50kw charging. That is not crazy money, and anybody with a garage, and 2 cars can make that work.
Absolutely correct. People that investigate and can manage to charge at home and/or work it could possible. That's the first thing to look at. A car could have 500 miles of range and cost $2000 but it's useless if you can't charge reliably and easily in your daily life. Most people have to buy cars used anyway. So yes, in 3-5 years there will be a lot more vehicle type choices available both used, and some less expensive new models. Some people don't like to research but I spent six months looking at EV reviews and articles before getting a used Chevy Bolt. Some web surfing is free and the best way to work out what is doable for your family budget. Just understand your daily needs for range, not some crazy cross country trip you'll probably never take or could rent a gas car for.
I really appreciate this, Joe. I would love an electric vehicle, but my wife and I are just starting out and trying to buy a house. For a lot of people it's just a little too out of reach.
Oooff! Here I was feeling smug about these poor 'muricans with their *cough* third world infrastructure etc... then you go and hit me with your getting on the property ladder and that's something that makes me eat humble pie. I'm pretty sure that's something people the world over can empathise with and relate to these days.
Too bad you can't buy a car and a house in the same loan at 2.4%.
@@davidbeppler3032 Too bad you can't buy a car, a house, some lumber, a tank of gas... I hear paper products may be in short supply again...
@@MarcillaSmith Plz explain?
Our EV story:
Husband researches Tesla for months, finally pulls the trigger and sales his F150 truck. Model 3 arrives.
Wife drives Model 3 for five minutes and thinks "Oh F#ck, well now I want one of these"
Kid makes a face when he has to ride in mom's "slow car" because (and I quote!) ***"It doesn't even fart!***
Wife orders Model Y and Husband gets jealous because his wife's car is faster than his hehe...
Couple realizes that the breaker box is on the complete opposite side of the house...both have mild heart attack lol
The end
Its not the worst thing. If you husband has any DIY know how, running a 240v line is not difficult, as long as you have room on circuit breaker cabinet. Don't be intimatedated. A "professional " is gonna charge you 4x the price of the material
😂😂😂😂
@@jasons7044 it was too complicated to DIY it...(for us anyway) and even so, the box is so far from our detached garage that it was going to be expensive anyway. That being said...we don't regret the investment a single bit. I never understood ppl who would say "I only buy Ford" (or Dodge or whatever other carmaker) ...After owning a Tesla for about a year, I think I'm one of those people lo now lol.
@@gabydorough7308 - Investigation really should include, the "Can I Charge at Home" question, with a answer of "Yes! No Problem!" 😁
IT DOESN’T EVEN FART!
We got ourselves a Nissan Leaf for my 5 mile commute and my wife's 20 mile commute. It's not ideal all the time, and there are times we forget to charge when we need (We just do a 110v at home). I still love the car, but convenience-wise, it's not always there - especially since we have a single-lane no-garage situation. Other thing worth mentioning is we have a level 2 charger down the road a mile, so that helps a bunch in a pinch.
During the warmer months, we can switch back and forth freely, but in the cold months (less than 40F average in a day), I usually solely take the car, as the 85 mile range during the summer becomes 60 in the winter.
It's not perfect, but we do very much love it. 2016 leaf for around 10k seems like it should pan out as a good purchase in the long run, but I would be lying if I didn't mention that it is indeed limiting in many tiny annoying ways.
An aftermarket charger can get 16A instead of 12A on most exterior outlets. 240v extension cord can utilize dryer, stove outlet etc.
Most us outlets are 20A breaker, included charger is set for 15A. Cheapest solution I could find was $200 for a charger on amazon, its a $35 dongle for Tesla.. Huge upgrade when I was on 110.
@@jpmkiv Thank you for the advice! Here in a few weeks, my electrician of a dad is going to help with the intricacies, but we will be adding a 240v setup, one that preferably isn't on the same breaker as our air conditioner outlet!
I had a 2016 Leaf for a year and loved it. It got around 120 miles when fully charged though. I used it for a 40 mile round trip commute each day. Just plugged it into 110v each night, I could easily go one night during the week without charging. Ended up upgrading to a 2019 Leaf and love it. Finally installed a 240v outlet myself after three years of EV ownership. Parts were around $60 with the heavy gauge wire being the most expensive part. I would not recommend an EV unless you own a house or live in an apartment with EV chargers (or at least a convenient outlet you can use).
Problem is in roughly 80,000 miles it's pretty much junk. I wanted to get a used one with a bad battery and replace it with a refurbished one for $3000 like I had read about. Get the car for about $4000. (I'm 56 and this would be the most I've ever spent on a vehicle. I buy broken down vehicles and fix them for around $1000 total including the price of the vehicle) However that doesn't seem to exist. There's no refurbished ones. So I checked on a new battery that Nissan offered for around $5000. That doesn't exist either, they want $11,500 for a battery plus an adapter kit.. That's ridiculous. It's like battery powered tools. The tool can be an excellent shape but once the battery goes bad throw it in the trash. I can get an awesome nice used gas vehicle for $16,000. EVs will never make it unless they can get the battery to last 600,000 miles in every condition. democRATS are going to drive the price of gas up to try to force people to get EVs.
I really appreciate your reality take. Cost is definitely a factor for us.
Thank you Joe! I am tired of people talking like 40k isn’t a big deal to spend on a vehicle. I have to pay ridiculous rent prices as it is, so I can only ever afford used vehicles at the moment. I managed to get my hands on a used plug in hybrid, but the full EVs with sufficient range just aren’t there yet. And while I appreciate what Tesla has done, I think it is time they introduce a “budget” model without all the bells and whistles.
If you tally up the hardware costs for all the bells and whistles Inna Model 3, it can probably only be 5k cheaper if they drop the computer and cameras, so they have a way to go.
Most people can't afford a new car and that's normal. Gas prices are high in California, but many places are still below $3/gallon. Keeping a used Prius out of the scrapyard and well-maintained on the road is better than spending resources on a new vehicle, especially when Tesla can't build cars or batteries fast enough.
I have built 2 DIY ebikes since 2020. With some help from a local bike shop of course. I can pull my kids in a trailer to the park with clean electric and human bike power while keeping a car off the road and getting exercise. Saves me $ on vehicle fees at certain parks. Meanwhile I am saving up for Cybertruck to use as a business rental asset until it's paid off. That's the only way I can justify that kind of money ($57k after FSD) on a vehicle. Tesla doesn't and should not compromise on safety, quality, or longevity. The FSD suite costs money to install but has huge potential to save lives. Battery range under 200 miles might be feasible for a robo-taxi service but it's too limiting for Tesla to release as a consumer vehicle. Brands fail when they get cheap.
they will but not for a few years as the cost of batteries is prohibitive.
OLF was something I looked forward to every week.
Me too
It would be cool if they came together once a year
@carmenski1 or just have Joe and Ben do it. Tim was always aloof anyways when he did make it lol
What's olf?
Same. Hurts to see it gone.
@@cgmehta8264 A podcast they did. BTW OLF stand for Out Lying Field - or a touch-and-go field.
Hello Joe, good advice to those looking to have an EV. We were lucky to be only 5 kilometres from a Supercharger at our local Mall when we purchased our Model 3 DM in September 2018. We live in an apartment without any charging infrastructure, so to date I have never used the mobile charger and only L2’s in an emergency. This means that about 99% of the 95,000 kilometres driven (16,400 kWh; 174 Wh/km) have been using the Supercharger network with only 4.5% battery degradation. Keep up the good work!
Those are some pretty nice numbers for constant supercharging! Out of curiosity how many kW do you supercharge at and what % do you usually charge / discharge to? I ask as I had heard people who supercharge all the time often see substantially increased battery degradation due to the high charge rate buy yours seems fine!
Our discharge limit is usually 25% to 20% (orange) and charge limit is usually 80% if parking at home or 90% for road trips. Every two months we go to V3 and charge to 100% and then go for a nice drive. Our regular Supercharger is a V2 so maxes to 135 kW from 20% to 50% and gradually decreases to 35 kW at 90% with a charge time of 30 to 40 minutes. At the V3 it maxes at 245 kW at 20% with a tapering off to about 30 kW at 90% with a charge time of 25 to 30 minute and near 5 kW at 100% with charge time over 50 minutes.
In Norway the building code now requires all new apartment buildings to put in the infrastructure for EV charging. In Britain new lamp posts in densely populated areas will be equipped with charging ports. And some new cars that are on the way (like the Sono) have integrated solar panels in the bodywork. The MG ZS EV is pretty much a full blown SUV and in Norway comes in around USD 240 000.
You mean around 240 000 NOK for the MG! In USD that's around 30 000.
As for solar panels on the car... yeah neat quirk, but there's only so much surface on a car, completely insufficient unless you're not driving much and living in a flat, sparsely populated southern region. (In which case it probably makes more sense to stay with a used diesel car for a while; electric makes sense precisely for driving _often_ in _densely_ populated regions, otherwise it'll take ages before you've offset the environmental impact of the battery production.)
@@leftaroundabout Sorry, my currency conversion got lost half way. You are right about solar panels on a car currently not having enough oomph for it to be something you can rely on for using as sole source of energy. I was more thinking along the lines of Joe saying going to his dad puts the car on the limit of his range, panels charging the car while visiting might give you enough reserve to lower your heart rate.
Hopefully the panels are only on the roof and/or hood, because it's basically throwing money down the tubes if they arrange them vertically.
Perfectly good point about low-level charging infrastructure.
My sister works at the Environment ministry, but because she lives downtown to be more "local", she only has access to street parking...
It is especially frustrating that solutions for this already exist in the UK, where they have charging pilars embeddable in the sidewalks.
But seriously, cities already have street lights! The electricity is already there!
I think people sometimes overlook statistics. Yes, $30k is a ton of money for most people... but on the flip side, the median new car price in the US last year was $37k, so even a base Model 3 is (currently) only $2k over the median new car price. So, that perspective is important. There are also plenty of people dropping $50-70k for a pickup truck they'll hardly ever use to haul anything, because 'Murica.
A lot of people actually don't buy new cars.
I'm 56 years old. I own an HVAC company. I drive 3,500 mile per month. I've never ever spent over $3500 on a vehicle. I usually spend less than $1000. I buy them broken down and fix them. That's $1000 for the vehicle including fixing it. If i had to buy a EV every 80,000 miles (that seems to be the mileage the battery declines overall according to the hundreds of used EVs I've looked at) I'd be out of business. I get 580,000 miles out of my Chevy vans.
Appreciate the clarity and honesty. The one thing you did not touch on, but kind of opened with, is service.. on a 2000s Jetta.. Nobody has seen these vehicles 10-15 years after warranty.. you should
Sad that OLF has ended. Was my favorite YTV each week. It will be missed
Hey Joe. Now would be a great time to update this video. 2022 was a great year for EVs. I am fortunate in that I too am luck enough to be able to afford this. My wife and I purchased 2 EVs in 2022, a Ford F-150 and a Hyundai Ioniq 5. We were able to purchase each without ordering one from the dealership. It requires considerable research, lots of phone call and a willingness to travel a bit to find what you are looking for. I feel giving this one another look and perhaps even look at some new EVs like the Aptera that has a thousand mile per charge option and is covered in solar panels. Great work and I love your site.
I bought a 2012 Nissan Leaf two months ago for $4,300. It's got an average range around 48 miles on a charge. We live in the burbs outside Seattle and virtually all my driving is less than 20 miles. I bought the Leaf because it's stupid cheap to run not because I'm trying to save the planet. The car had 43k miles on it and because EV don't have reciprocating bits they don't vibrate, which means the Leaf looked and felt almost brand new. We live in an apartment and fortunately for us our parking bay is by the side of our home and because our range use is low I can fully charge the car overnight.The Leaf may look fugly but it rides creamy smooth, is almost silent and nothing seems to go wrong. For us it's a great car solution and if we need a long distance car we'll rent it.
How much does it cost to charge it?
@@macberry4048 I hate to say but I don't know because I haven't seen a change in our electricity bill over the past two months. The Leaf is being charged via a 110V outside outlet and on the odd occasion where I got the battery down to single digits it was always recharged by the next morning. I've used the high speed CHADEMO chargers when I took it down to Tacoma and it cost me a bit over $6 to fully recharge and it took about 35 minutes while I had lunch. This was the only time I had an out of pocket 'fuel' expense. The car is the exact opposite of an ICE car. Freeway driving puts a load on the battery whereas stop and go city driving doesn't. The Leaf can sit in traffic all day if the AC/heat is turned off. Since we live in Western Washington the environment is almost perfect for the Leaf, for example if we lived in somewhere like Arizona or New Mexico I would never had considered it because of the issue of battery temperature management. The Leaf is without doubt the cheapest car I have ever owned. No oil changes, no real 'fuel' costs and nothing seems to be breaking. As long as I look after the battery at it's current condition If I want to I'll be able to sell the car for what I paid for it ( I paid cash). Oh, BTW the state of Washington waives the sales tax on EV purchases up to I think $15,000.
@@PaulLemars01 sounds like you're living the dream
@@macberry4048 Probably low expectations...
Currently leasing Hyundai Kona EV in Australia - 62K on the road. Yes, expensive as cars go but so worth it! I travel between where I work & my farm (230 km one way) & top up with my Tesla Powerwall & solar panels. Not having to get fuel is fantastic. When I’m not on the farm I plug in to a standard wall outlet on a slow trickle during the night when the power price is low. I use to drive an Amarok diesel Ute for six years doing this same round trip - I’m glad to be part of the solution & be paying back for my CO2 footprint.
All true and good points Joe, we bought the Kia Niro and it has been awesome. Add a few solar panels to my garage roof and the electric car would be almost free fuel. I see a huge market coming and a shift in some businesses that is going to change our normal life styles. How about wireless charge stations that you just park over a pad that charges the car just to name a few future events. Tesla charge stations at all Mc Donalds and Starbucks LOLOL :)
I live in one of those small rural towns without supercharging anywhere near. The places I am more likely to make quick day trips to are more likely to have charging options for my return trip. If you charge at home, you don’t need to live where there is fast charging equipment nearby.
OLF ending…I liked the interaction between you 3...
Joe's conclusion is good. In 2017, i bought a used 2014 Nissan Leaf. Now, in 2021, it is 7 years old and allows me 90+ miles in the summer and 85 miles in the winter. Not a lot, but more than I need we *rarely* ever need to drive more than 50 or 60 miles in a day. I had been saving money for the used car purchase, so there's no loan. I call it fantastic, for local driving.
Always honest, thank you Joe.
Accuracy would be better!
@@XOXSUSIEQXOX has he been inaccurate much? Just curious from what you’ve seen.
@@mattcooper1159 Just this time...
I’ve driven a Tesla for the last 3 years and my brother has for the last 2. He and I live close to the charging station in South St. Louis. Our parents live (and I work) 75 miles away. Our parents have a dryer outlet that we charge with. When we come south to visit friends or go to the park, we have to watch our charge so we don’t run low, because WE have to go all the way back north to charge unless we are visiting mom and dad. When we stay over, we WAKE UP with a full charge! We can head north, East, West to the St. Louis area, or South to Southeast Mo. State and we will be fine! ALL of those places will have a supercharger when we run low! I realize that it is counterintuitive, but you are better off if you have charging stations at about 100-200 miles in either direction from your home! Why would we need to charge down the street when we woke up with a full 250-400 mile charge? It defies logic, if you’re an experienced EV driver!
This is the most levelheaded EV perspective I’ve heard. I know most EV owners have views in line with you, but it’s just a relief to see this from a prominent UA-camr on the internet.
Here in London just trying to find parking is impossible, u always end up parking about 2-3 min away from your house
Soon your car can park 10 min away and it will come to you when you summon it with a full charge.
Only 2-3 min? When I drove a car in Vienna years ago I had search for over 30 min to find something. Since then you have to have some kind of ID for your car on your car to be legally able to park (or you pay an hourly fee). I don't drive now but even from this perspective it became so much better!
That's a long power cord.
@@davidbeppler3032 I hope you realize your "soon" is 15 years away.
@@davidmccarthy6061 "In 2020 we'll have flying cars!"
~ people in 1985
The honesty and realization of even your position in comparison to others makes me trust you even more! An objective look is more of what we need!
If you're gonna buy an EV, buy from someone who knows how to manufacture cars. That's not Tesla.
I'm impatiently waiting for the cyber truck to come out. I'll be getting one then.
Buy an EV as your primary vehicle, The cybertruck is not a daily driver. 500Wh/mi gets old really fast!
@@Tore_Lund My current daily driver gets 8-12 Mpg. I think I can manage.
@@breadman32398 I forgot, charging is dirt cheap in the US! If you needed to pay 40C Per kWh like in Europe IT is like getting 20mpg on gasoline in your cybertruck. I dont presume IT Will be and export success?
@@Tore_Lund Well, at the risk of seeming as if I endorse this 'tude: when has 'Mur'ka ever cared about the rest of the world?
@@MarcillaSmith Maybe IT is the brands THAT Don't care? Market the same cars, to the same segments, now just with batteries, so you Don't have to change your self perception or your lifestyle?
Leaf owner here -- love it! Great for commuting.
... but but. You are forced to drive a Nissan and go to a Nissan dealership
@@theairstig9164 Well, I've been doing that for 30 years, so we're friends :)
Great video Joe! Very balanced views. May I recommend The Fully Charged channel for keeping up with what is going on with EVs they have some great tips on starting out with Them too.
I used to follow the FC channel and got tired of rants and perceived bias.
Thanks for this honest conversation. So many people will just say “ban has cars, require everyone to have solar, etc.” without any thought for the majority of the country that can’t afford a car payment that is the same as their rent, or the $10k+ for solar panels. I’m someone who doesn’t like having a car payment, so being able to afford a used car for Cash is a preferred option even tho I would love a Tesla. Also, as someone who drives a work van during the week, the biggest issue would be range. Some days I only drive 50 miles, but I’ve had days where I do 350 miles. The other issue with that is a lot of people who drive work vehicles drive them home and unless the company sets up a way to track how much charge you use, you would end up paying for “fuel” for your company.
I'm happy for you that you can afford to have the car you want
@Zappa Wench. If you factor in the real cost of purchase, owning, maintenance fuel etc...a Tesla Model 3 is the best bargain on the market, bar none. It all comes down to whether you have a place to mount a charging receptacle.
@@johncahill3644 You are right, but the problem is, it doesnt affect the sticker price, and if you dont have the investment to buy now, you can't reap the rewards of long term savings in the future.
If you can't stretch it for full electric, there are some good plug in hybrid options. We have 1 car and I needed a 5 seater with range that works great in the winter and opted for a Honda Clarity plug in. It has been great and cut my gas consumption by almost 60 % (vs. a Sonata Hybrid). Not full electric, but really efficient.
I'm devastated about olf. I woke up before my family every Saturday and would just put it on and spend my alone time with these guys.
Anyone lucky enough to be able to buy a brand new EV today is just paving the way for the Used Car market the rest of us are waiting for. We need you guys creating the inventory, and would love to hear more about the Company Fleet situation as these generate a good vehicle turnover for the used car buyer.
Yes electric cars are expensive for a lot of us, but don't ever feel bad or apologize for being successful. You worked hard to get to the position you're in and I'm happy for you. Keep up the good work electric cars will get cheaper as the years go on.
they are already cheaper in China
its not about apologizing that he is successful, its about acknowledging that the average person in this country makes about $28,000 A YEAR BEFORE TAXES.
On the backs of African slave children
Thanks for the reality check. I bought a 2015 Nissan Leaf 6 months ago and only paid $8k for it. It's in terrific shape, and it's been a great learning experience. I only use it for running around locally, but think a road trip would be sketchy at this point. For most people a hybrid makes more sense.
I bought my Hyundai Ioniq 2019 for $24k.
Great video, as usual!! I live in a rural area. My friend who has an EV has a soalr battery and charges her car with that. If the the electricity you get at your house is generated by coal, as many grids still are, then charging with a soalr charger makes sense for those of us trying to switch to more renewable energy anyway.
Also, the "early adopters" are important for all new technologies. EVs will get cheaper and more efficient!
Thanks Joe! Love ya Bro!
I've said it before and I still think it's true: EV's won't truly become the norm until you can buy them used for under $2k.
I bought mine for 2300. Not quite there yet, but almost.
That won't happen anytime soon. Combination of LifeSpan and Availability. There is not enough BEVs to be dirt cheap. The ones that are bottom of the barrel cheap also most likely means battery is in poor condition. Soo it's just difficult right now. But cheap several grand one in decent condition is doable.
That will probably be something small like a Fiat 500 or a Smartcar and most people don't like those cars
@@Neojhun Aye, I know it's a long way off, but a significant portion of the population will never get on board until they can afford one outright. I personally have never spent more than £1000 (~$1400) on a car, and probably never will. I'm certainly not going to put myself into debt for 5+ years for one.
Non self driving will be illegal or heavily regulated before that happens. Other than Leaf or other non-Tesla vehicles (Tesla will never let their used go that cheap). New vehicle sales will be over 80% electric before the used market is that cheap. Even when new vehicle sales are 100% electric there will be petrol vehicles on the road for years afterwards. Further CO2 reduction & absorption is going to best be dealt with in terms of agriculture at that point.
I live in this place that's markedly colder than Texas normally is. People in apartments often have condominiums. The condo boards tend to arrange outlets for ICE preheating in parking lots. That's a really good option for level 1 charging with the infrastructure already in place.
And even in rental apartments that offer parking, putting up some poles
with outlets is no big deal for landlords. You can hook it up to that residents electricity meter. Makes you a more attractive landlord.
Also, I wish we'd stop talking so much about charge boxes. They're totally uneccessary and I see from my own experience how they complicate the thinking of ICE vehicle owners on condo boards trying to decide about arranging charging for their members.
All you need is an outlet. In the best of worlds, it's also wired to my electricity meter.
Good points Joe. We need a $20k decent range EV soon.
... if ever
They're already here! I see Chevy Bolt's on Carmax. 250 summer range (150 in Chicago winter) which is plenty for 97% of people. Assuming they don't expect all the luxury and advanced tech that the 50 grand cars have. My 2017 Bolt is awesome and coming from a 2002 Camry it's like a spaceship, and the first scheduled service is at 150K miles to just change the coolant. Some people are picking up 2020 new Bolt's for $21K right now as they're moving those out ahead of the coming models.
Need more infrastructure for charging...and need that charging speed to be much faster. There are plenty of rich people who will continue choosing gasoline vehicles due to the fact we don't have the charging infrastructure in place to properly replace the very strong network of gasoline stations around the country. You even have those gasoline stations in tiny towns, where there is zero option to charge an electric vehicle.
Just wanted to say thank you Joe for addressing the reality of owning an e-auto. I have been wanting to get one for years now but, you said, the cost to get in to e-mobility is still too high for my budget. I have the perfect situation with a house and a carport (the carport has a 240 volt outlet!) but I will have to wait until the used car market has something to offer. I enjoy your channel and please keep up the good work!
09:20 Joe ....Poppin in poppin out .... 120 miles
Me livin in Ireland 120 miles will get you from one side of my country to the other !
I was thinking the same thing. Texas drive distances do not compute even for most United Statesians, much less for Europeans.
Charged our used 2012 Leaf on our farm with an extension cord almost every night.
Buying it was a financial decision, as the extra cost were covered after two years of much lower running and maintenance costs. We tow waste food for animals every day, so lots of kilometres.
Still charged our 2019 Leaf from a lead for 6 months every 3rd night. Still only charge from our wall charger every 3 days.
Add solar, and charging cost are almost zero if you are at home during the day.
'Panel' works lmao. Asking a new customer where her box is might be awkward.
Three or four years ago my brother and I did a 900 mile round trip in a 2014 Model 3. At that time I said they weren't ready for prime time. With today's extended range and increased charging infrastructure, I think most of my concerns would be gone. My 2002 RAV4-EV has seen three standard maintenance visits in the 11 years I've owned it, though, at an average MPGe of over 110. So life cost of ownership tends to even out the purchase price premiums. And, in the next year or two, actual affordable used electrics should start showing up.
You forgot to mention if you live in a cold climate it can really really hurt range and would be tough without home charging
In Quebec, there are 100,000 EVs on the roads for a population of 8 million inhabitants. As long as you have a charging station at home, there is no problem. I have a Model 3 all-wheel drive. My car performs well even at -25C. In winter when it's under -20C, I lose about 40% of autonomy. For my everyday life, this is not a problem.
@@LamarreAlexandre Right, I'm just afraid people always hear it's "no problem" when they should be aware that home or work charging is a must in cold places. It would suck if I couldn't charge at home
Joe also didn't mention if you drive a diesel in a cold climate you are always worried it won't start and you have to plug it in every day. Yea, lots of vehicles have compromises. EVs do too. lol
@@davidbeppler3032 if I park outside in -20C would I be able to charge on L1? Someone considering an EV should know this.
EV penetration is by far the biggest in Norway, a very northern country, Norway has the most northern Tesla Supercharger station, which is within the pole circle.
Cold weather does affect range, but my impression is it is quite overblown, Norwegians do seem to have much issue with this. Watch Björn Neyland's YT channel he tests all kind of electric vehicles in Norway, also shows charging is no problem in Norway.
I had an EV for 3 years until a year ago in the UK (Renault Zoe ZE40). It actually had a reasonable purchase price and I only sold it out of boredom in the end and bought a sports car (the Zoe is worthy but dull if you are a car enthusiast). New EVs are still a lot of money here (a lot more than I paid 4 years ago - heavy discounts then because they weren't selling as well as now). I got on fine with mine but I am a bit nerdy and actually enjoyed planning where to charge on longer journeys, this really wouldn't be for everyone. I am also able to charge at home, essential in my view with the present infrastructure. Great overview and well reasoned thoughts as usual.
Would love an Electric car (am in Australia), but even the base model 3 is US$51200 (no options - white), and for way cheaper than that US$26700 for a new Camy in any colour. It is prohibitive over here, which makes me a bit sad... :(
It does seem like the Aussie govt is actively discouraging the uptake of EVs in Australia.
All thanks to coal loving ScoMo
What Australian produced cars? (Electric or not)
@@AzathothsAlarmClock Ford and Chevy are traded on the US stock exchange..
But no mass production ars are made here at all! en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Australia#:~:text=Australian%20manufacture%20of%20cars%20rose,still%20exceeded%20400%2C000%20in%202004.&text=However%2C%20the%20Ford%20Australia%20engine,factories%20closed%20in%20late%202017.
Thanks for this video! I appreciate your balanced and honest perspective. No matter what choices we make in life there are always tradeoffs and cost and benefits.
As far as I know, the 120V thing is particular to the US, most other countries can deliver a lot more power through ~220-240V
US citizens: USA=the world.
every where els: USA=meh
We have 240 to every house, just not always a convient outlet (just behind dryers and such), but easy to change!
@@brantwedel glad someone said it first
This gets confused by many outside the U.S. The fact is, the U.S. has 240V service at the panel, but individual circuits are sliced to 120V for the majority of smaller appliances. 240V circuits are still used for EV charging, welding, electric dryers, electric ovens, electric water heaters, electric ranges... etc
Yes, some outlets are 15A, so all chargers are set for that, even 20a @ 120v is better than that. from 5-7mi per hour
Great points, totally agree. One point of clarification, if you live in a rural area and can charge at home, your circle of available range starts at that point. So if you typically drive toward charging infrastructure you should be fine. Like Joe says, getting to his dad’s and back is tough, but if he can leave his dad’s with a charge it’s not a problem.
Exactly!!! Thank you for clarifying! I tried to make this point, but you said it better!!! :-)
I bought my used Nissan Leaf for 2300. It’s been degraded down to a 35 mile range, but it does what I want.
that is brutal but i guess if it works for ya
Ouch... i guess that's better than a high end ebike...
james and kate have a channel where he replaced bad cells..
@@firstname1lastname127 no, my parents e-bikes go like 40 miles. 😭
Some folks in England are doing battery swaps on older Nissan LEAFs. Apparently it's not that difficult. But you'll still only have a LEAF :)
We got a used 2016 Nissan Leaf in February. We are currently rolling with the 110v charger for now and it is going great. We have a Corolla for long drives.
Absolutely loving the EV life. The Corolla will be replaced with a longer range EV in 3-5 years when some good used options are available.
I had to buy a new work van recently and I was hoping something electric would have been available. I hear the Ford transit electric is coming soon
In 5 years you will have a plethora of choices because Tesla is dragging Big Auto into the electric field... but they ain't there yet.
A bit slow arriving in the US but soon, and it will be a big cost savings for fleet buyers.
Great talk! I wish you'd said more about the plug-in hybrid option. They are still expensive, but ours lets all our around town driving be electric and still lets us hit the road for long trips to visit family without having anxiety about how to make the vehicle go. No garage hasn't been an issue because 110V charging works fine to recharge most PHEVs overnight.
Ben accidentally sent his script to Joe's inbox- lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you for talking about this. I have been going back forth on the f-150 so this is helpful. No new info for me really but it is always nice to hear people of opinions
For people like me in rural areas, it's wiser to wait 5 years and reassess the possibility of purchasing an electric vehicle.
Bought a 2016 Soul EV Plus model for $15k a couple years back. The range could use a boost, but it is the most comfortable, reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
That was very US-centric (understandably), but I'm surprised there was no mention of China and the forthcoming invasion of Chinese EVs that is going to totally disrupt the EV market to the point where there will almost certainly be casualties within the traditional car manufacturers' gang. It'll be very much like the impact that the Japanese had on manufacturing in the 60s - 80s.
As far as work trucks go, it's going to be extremely difficult to get adequate range out of an EV while towing. From what I've seen, once a trailer is hooked up, the range falls through the floor.
I already have my Cybertruck pre-order in. I'm getting the mid range 2 motor AWD.
What year Scott? I had a 2006 jetta 2.5. Got it in 2010 with 50k miles. Got rid of it at 125k. Had electrical issues. The front windows stopped working. Fixed them. Drivers stopped again. Oil leaks, coolant. The sunroof would drain was blocked with debris so when it rained the back floor would flood. Fun times
Kia Soul EV 93 and 111mile range depending on the year you get. Can be had very inexpensively.
They still make the Kia Soul EV for Canada, Europe, and Asia. Current models get either about 150 or 240 miles on a charge, depending on trim level.
@@ScrapKing73 Would be a wonderful vehicle. I had a 2018 and it was great. I was heart broken that the new version didn't make it to the States. But the older versions are dirt cheap if you only need an around town car.
Rates are off-peak here from 11pm to 9am. Just using the standard wall charger we get 5mi/hr which is enough for daily commuting. If we have a longer trip or drive extra during the week we can either charge all day Saturday and Sunday when rates are off peak or just charge on high rate when necessary. This is super rare after 9 months of having the model y
Last episode of olf was sad. I hope you guys get together again some day
Another thing to note with charging at home is that it can spike your power bill really high. In my family alone, with 18 solar panels and living in SoCal, we still spend over $120 a month on electricity alone, which only got worse with covid because now all of my kids are schooling from home. An EV would, yeah, probably cost less per month than gasoline, but would still spike the power bill up, which would disqualify my family from Edison bonuses and cost us more per kwh because we're using more per month.
Also I have had strangers talk junk to me when they see me driving my ev, which is crazy...
Tesla?
I haven't noticed any of that in my Bolt, but I also haven't been driving much since I got it.
Well, you are putting more pollutants into the air than they are...
@@Chris-hx3om Okay, that's a lie.
ua-cam.com/video/6RhtiPefVzM/v-deo.html
@@Jcewazhere ok so it has happened 2x in 2 months...but I didn't expect people to even recognize the leaf as an electric. Maybe it's the 'zero emissions' written down the side...
@@thomashiggins9320 Video sponsored by Formula E, who PAID for it to be made, so I have as much faith in that video as I do about the big sky daddy. (ie, less than 0)
Import to add: Compliance Cars - My research in looking for used EV's has shown that you pay based on range. Compliance cars like the Leaf and 500e can be purchased much cheaper, but are special purpose vehicles. Education on charging infrastructure is import too. Sites like PlugShare will help people make decisions of whether an EV will work for them too. And I am very bummed about OLF! You guys helped get us through a rough year!
Please consider doing OLF once per month or two instead of ending it entirely. Such an episode would be anyways more interesting because it summarizes 1 month.
I'm a mobile detailer and I just got my fully electric Ford E Transit 250 cargo van. Pretty sure it's the 1st commercial EV available in the US. Getting approx 2mi / kWh hwy and up to 3+ miles/kWh in the city. The range won't work for everyone but this is SO much better than my gas van that I retired
I love the concept of EVs, I'm just happy for someone else to have one.
Well said Joe. 30k is a huge chunk of money for most people to come up with. I have a Leaf and the payments are significant. Prices are getting there, slowly. Great video.
One advantage of living in Europe, everyone has 220v by default! Ah "socialism" doing things backwards as usual 🙄
240V is standard at the panel here in the States. We usually cut that in half (120V) for the majority of smaller household appliances. All larger electrical appliances are 240V. Amperage would be the barrier for some households with maxed out panels. A 15 amp (240V) EVSE wouldn't be much of a burden for the majority of households, but those with incredibly long commutes may need a higher amperage 240V circuit that could potentially require a significant panel upgrade.
I love that ya'll forced Tesla to standardize their plugs, but Bill is right about the 240 here. I could run an extension from my dryer outlet to my car and charge quicker, but so far the basic outlet has been enough for me.
Two years ago I bought my 2015 Nissan Leaf for $12,000.00. It is a good around-the-town car. If I plan ahead, I can drive further.
Dont feel bad for the choices you have made that have put you in the position of being able to afford an EV. I am tired of people being ashamed for making good choices and working hard.
You don't have to feel bad, but you absolutely need to check your privilege and atone accordingly.
There's a difference between feeling bad about it and acknowledging that not everyone had those opportunities.
I've been pretty lucky, my family has 2x 6 figure incomes. We will have a Cybertruck if it comes to Australia, because it will be literally the only off roadable EV available, and we only want one car. Right now, to do the adventuring our family wants, in Australia, there are zero options that aren't diesel.
Competition is good, so the more EVs available to the general public the better. Most people will only drive used, so we need lots of new EVs being sold now so the used market can pick up in a few years.
Vancouver BC is getting a lot better with charging. I see charging stations in most parking lots now and also employers are starting to have charging stations available for employees. Here's an interesting tidbit about Canada, in very cold locations most vehicles have block heaters to keep the engine warm so we can start the car in 40 below. So I remember stores would have places in parking lots to plug in your block heater. I remember taking my husband (raised in Vancouver where it never gets 40 below) to my hometown and we stopped at the liquor store. He was amazed the small town was preparing for EV!! I told him those plugs were there in the 70's/80's so we knew about EV way back then (which technically there were EVs in the 70's - you should do a video on that!).
I hate that the answer to reducing transportation emissions is by electric vehicles, rather than better public transport like trains and stuff.
When you live where there is no public transportation(rural areas), there isn't much choice.
Yep, we need all the things!!! But we have built entire systems and infrastructures around cars in allot of places, and we can probably produce EVs faster than tearing up suburbia.
Electric vehicles aren't the answer, just a piece of the pie. We're seeing a mass exodus within large U.S. cities into less developed regions. Rather the decision to move is financially related, or simply desired during Covid, the primary mode of transportation will be personal automobiles for many millions into the foreseeable future.
@@Hidyman which is why I say we need to increase public transport so that rural areas aren't forced into buying cars. It's possible.
We were lucky enough to be able to add a 40 amp 240 volt circuit to the outside wall of our house when building an addition. Later we found a used Chevy bolt with 20k miles for under $15k. So far I save about $90 a month in fuel compared to my old truck. So far it seems like it's definitely the way to go.
Would be a more useful comparison if your old vehicle was a similarly sized car, rather than a truck. (though obviously still favoring the EV)
Joe, I really appreciate this video. For work I need a long range with lots of towing power, would love an EV and am awaiting a viable option.
I can appreciate all your points for the USA, where distances can be greater. In the UK and Europe, living with an EV really doesn't need to be a compromise, even if you can't charge at home. I can charge at work on a Zappi Type 2 [and it's FREE], so I get the best of both worlds, I guess. In the UK and Europe there is little [in convenience, costs are another thing] to stop people making the jump from FFV to BEV. And a significant and quickly growing number of people have.
Nice to hear a view on this that doesn't expect us all to have 30k (minimum) excess to spend on a car. EVs are great for the upper classes at the moment, but the rest of us we're going to have to wait a while before cars with a decent range are down in the second hand market.
As someone living in the Great White North, I would be all for getting an EV, but we just don't have the infrastructure readily available to support a wide charging network yet. Once there are improvements to the infrastructure, and they become more competitively priced relative to their internal combustion counterparts, I will strongly reconsider purchasing one.
Electrified parking meters would be a great solution for city slickers like me. We already have an online parking system for my city with an app that you can use to pay, so all they need to do is run the cabling to each parking space. I imagine you would first pay for your time on the meter, then current would start flowing to your car and you would be later billed for what power you used. If you add a small “Convenience fee” for charging (which the parking meter app already has), then the city could make back the cost in no time.
Why? Soon the car will just drive to the charging station, to park, or to pick the next customer while you are not using it. Why pay the parking meter?
@@davidbeppler3032 good point, but I feel like that reality is still kinda far away. Before we can get there, we first need to increase the number of EVs on the road, and that won’t happen if we don’t have the infrastructure to support them. Also, a group charging system wouldn’t really work in my city since there aren’t many large public parking lots, so a car would probably still need to park somewhere on the side of the road to charge. In that case, the parking meter chargers could be transitioned to regular charging systems when the need arises
@@guyguy463 You know there are places doing something like what you suggest but the power is a trickle charge and it is free.
My second vehicle cost $6,000, is paid for and gets 75 mpg. Top speed is 90 mph and the range is 255 miles. The main tank is 3.4 gallons. If I added a 1 gallon fuel tank the range would be 330 miles. Annual insurance is $190. Yamaha XMAX 300. Perfect for around town, and 9 months a year it's fine for commuting to work. And it's another form of recreation that's very enjoyable. Nice storage under the seat, enough for two full face helmets or grocery runs. It's just nice to be able to go somewhere and not be sitting in a chair. It's therapeutic.
Wish there were minivan options, might need to do 1 and 1 for a while
Same here. I'd love an electric minivan.
When buying a used EV, one factor to consider is battery life. Depending upon how many cycles the previous owner has put the battery through, the battery might be ready for replacement. A new battery typically costs thousands of dollars, so you might have to factor that into the total cost of a used EV.
Joe. Plug in when you visit your dad. Resistance is most at the very top of your range. To 80% the charge is relatively quick even on 110v. What ever you get from plugging in, even for a little while it will give you quite a few miles before it slows down.
Going to share my experience, I own a 2013 Nissan Leaf for almost 2 years now. It will do 120km (75mi) of city driving or 90km (55mi) highway. That isn't much but it does have 50kW fast charging. The car was around 10k, we have 3 kids and one income, and the car fits our needs. My work is close by, most family isn't far either and whenever we make a longer trip, the fast charging infrastructure in the Netherlands is adequate. I've been to Amsterdam (about 125km away) with one charging stop on the way there and one on the way back. It took us 20 minutes extra total but the kids enjoyed the small break.
Oh, at home I've got a cheap charger that I installed myself. It's literally a power brick (like the mobile 'emergency' charger) screwed to the back of a pretty wooden pole in front of my house. The cable is long enough to cross the sidewalk and reach three of the open parking spots in front of our house. I just toss a cable bridge over it and everything is fine. Cost? 100 bucks for the charger through aliexpress and 20 for the outdoor rated electrical cable and stuff.
What I'm saying is: it will work great for some, and not for others. But most people just don't want to let go of what they know until everything is easy. And I get that. But to be honest, being able to 'refuel' at home is the best thing ever.
Thanks. I was just looking and there was a clear spot where the range to price ratio of used cars hits a cliff, and it was almost at my price point. The lack of chargers put it out of my range for now. On a side note, I own a 98 Subaru. About 7 or 8 years ago I had to dump more then a couple $k into the engine and the choice paid for it self. Now it is time to put in another $1.5k or let her go. I think getting the most out of a vehicle is about stretching the environmental cost of building it in the first place.
Hi Joe, good to see his TMI following my question in last months coffee stream!
Good video, Joe. I think this period where people are now more aware of EVs and want them but can't yet get one is good because it shows we are beginning the transition away from the ICE. Now it's a matter of scaling infrastructure and production much further, so EVs can be properly supported and affordable to most. It's gonna be a long process and it's hard for people to wait, but we have to do the work to lead to a better future. Those who can afford an EV now are voting with their money and incentivizing the industry to continue.
I couldn't find any EV in my price range and availability in my area so I ended up getting an PHEV the 2017 Chevy Volt. It gets about 60 miles on a single charge and since I got it three months ago I still haven't put any fuel in it. So for a $15K car it is a good deal for me. I also average about 3 miles per kWh.
I like the idea of NOT plugging in. That most carparks, homes etc will have inductive car charging!! No fussing with cables or plugs, you just park the car and it recharges automatically.
Way to many people with pacemakers, battery swapping is unpopular too.
www.adaptive-city-mobility.de/technische-daten/ some people have trials of that still though
I wish all EV-related videos were this honest and based in reality. Thank you!