“Remember that time we stuffed a Gaul village with so many proletariat and Cathargenian slaves that it’s population increased by 1100% in 9 years? Good times” -Cicero
Legatus: “Right lads, welcome to the legion. Today is your fir...” Aide-de-camp: “Sir, here are the land grants for the new arrivals.” Legatus: “Men, you have us proud today! Consider yourself a citizen of Rome. Here’s your farm.”
@@publiusthehandsome2314 "x is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits" is a video series by The Spiffing Brit where he basically does this to every game he can think of.
There are some battle exploits dealing with seiges and there is a naval movement exploit but it's nothing like M2TW or Empire TW where you can roll over the map in a handful of turns.
I hate this holiday. Why dedicate an entire day to subjecting peasants to lame jokes and overall misery when you should be able to do that 365 days a year? This is ridiculous.
It seems your brother Oppius is quite the manager of Carthage Tiberius. Contrary to the attempts to plow the earth with salt, it seems he has made a city to rival Rome.
Oppius Brutus: "I rule the world" Senator: "You rule Carthage" Oppius Brutus: *Gestures toward slave market containing half the world's population* "I don't like to repeat myself"
I think Carthage provided a large amount of grain to Rome too, since the Vandals, a nomadic people who were kicked out of everywhere where they tried to settle, ending up holding Rome to ransom when they took Carthage!
*raises a legion of Hastati in Lilybaeum* *soldiers eagerly ask where they're going* *upon arrival in Carthage* Right, that's you lads. Well done, thank you for your service, now sod off.
Its british for "Your service in the army is done" Basically, Jon took an army, had them march from one city to another and the soldiers with great eagerness asked "What are your orders, sir?" And the captain told them that their service is no longer needed.
Oh yes, before RTW was patched, it'd been so broken: a phalanx could poke their pikes through closed city gates preventing ramming; a unit of elephants could smash a dozen Roman cohorts; you could do as many sally battles as you wanted in one turn; you could give away your rebelling cities to the enemy and take them back since there were no garrisons there; you could place a unit in the retraining queue, merge it with another one and get more people in it than it was supposed to have... Those are a few things I can think of right now from the top of my head. And I've always enjoyed the game immensely.
The mutual growth-bonuses, even between grain-producing regions, you cover at 19:00 actually makes perfect sense. Some regions in the ancient Mediterranean were extremely fertile. But farming was also very fickle with the technology of the day. Crop failures could easily lead to starvation, and food stored in granaries could easily be ruined by rats and other vermin. Having grain-producing regions trade with each other could help to stabilize the food supply. If Egypt experienced crop failures due to a poor set of Nile floods that year, or Carthage reaped a poor harvest due to a dry winter in the upriver mountains that year (farming in Carthage- back then called Libya- was heavily dependent on irrigation from rivers fed from the mountains nearby. A dry year in the mountains could lead to a lack of adequate water for Libyan farmers to irrigate their crops without risking salinizaton of the soil- which is what ultimately occurred over time, with a large portion of Tunisian farmland now being degraded from its Carthaginian era heights...) then one grain-prodycing region could sell its surplus to another. This might later be balanced by trade the other way when the second region experienced crop failures. This prevented starvation in years with bad harvests, and reduced grain spoilage due to long storage times (which would have been necessary with less trade). The net result was larger populations could be supported by an interconnected network of freely-trading cities along the Mediterranean in Roman times than could ever be supported later in Medieval times, despite agricultural technology actually advancing in some ways since Roman times... (of course, lack of Sanitation, Feudalism, and disease also all played into the smaller urban populations of Medieval Europe...)
Great point! I find that a lot of people (anachronistically) assume that farming back then was just the same as it is now, but actually farming in the ancient world was a tricky business, making famines and large sudden migrations rampant
Just came here to appreciate this comment, one year later. It's kind of mind boggling that we've already created ecological disaster on a planetary scale with soil salinization, and we're going full steam ahead.
Rome reached a million during Nero, but still the number you see is the male population that fits for an army career, so your 100k is ×8 the normal population of a city at that time, meaning that the mechanics are good made!
Advisor: We have so much grain sir, I took the liberty of shipping it off to the distant colonies to maximise profits which will give us a nic-- Aulus Brutus: No! Advisor: ?... No sir? Aulus Brutus: BABIES! We must make more! Send it all to Italy... While your at it stamp the exports with an import stamp as well, that way we also import the grain we export so we have more grain to export later which we can the import to eat Advisor: bu... Aulus Brutus: And I destroyed every other port in the empire except this one here so you can't send it anywhere else but here hahahahahahah. Advisor: This isn't a go- Aulus Brutus: AND! tax everyone so much that they rebel, then enslave the Romans and ship them here over and over
Oh this is odd... it's probably just because I'm tired, but I think this comment is an optical illusion. Focus your eyes on the first sentence and then notice the middle of the comment, there's a diagonal line right in the center. Edit: Line spacing may be different for different devices so this might not work for other people. : (
@@backstagerm5733 Never had that problem if memory serves. But counter to this vid, I actively pull out of cities, let them rebel, then retake it and exterminate the population. Low population in big cities eliminates squalor and makes for high profit. Govern fairly, but when they act against your interests(and therefore, Rome's interests) put them to the sword.
@@backstagerm5733 Because payment of your army and generals is calculated among population. Which means big cities like Arminium are paying your army, but are unable to generate so much profit a thus are officially having negative balance.
Jon! In Rome 1 there was a mechanic that allows you to visit a city under your control as if you were in a battle, just to have a little bit of exploring and see how the city looks without being threatened. You could actually see citizens wandering around the city! And, if I recall correctly, the amount of people walking around is dependent on the amount of population the city holds in the charts. I sure would love to see how Carthage looks with the population boom, putting it in at least thrice the amount of citizens it should be holding!
This being April Fools' and how the title cut off on mobile, I'd half expected a sarcastic hour long rant about how rome total war was broken. I'm very pleased it wasn't.
Well id be interested, as many hours he put into it, he should be able to see the two sides of the coin, and making a totally believable and referencable critic. Someone who critics the thing he knows inside out kinda has bonus believability.
Rome total war is the best total war game of all. its my favorite. best music, best map, best units. I love the wonders. with awesome videos for capturing wonders and a special feature. I love it. its not broken at all. its perfect.
Ha kids nowadays are like "it is 4k which means it's not a game and cannot be played" they missed out on good games like this As well as ruining the genre of strategy games..... Well developers did to make them click and point instead of strategy
@@jamessteven711 European war Napoleon available in Google play and appstore with single and multi player is a real and good strategy game. Not all new games have been click and point in the strategy gender at all. Actually the games have been improved in manu things like graphics
WHAT?! What do you mean Roman towns keep continuously rebelling in an endless cycle?! This cannot stand! We demand that you keep taking them back and enslaving them over and over again! Oh, and have some good quality troops for your trouble.
Oh no... soon you'll be obsessing over tea and the motherland! Speaking of, if you don't have a hot cuppa in front of you, what are you waiting for? You can't break a game without tea, it's ungentlemanly!
I love this game... I remember playing this game on my gaint computer in 2004 (it used to take 5 minutes for 1 battle to load) . Now in 2020 I play this game on my iPad and fast loading.....the future is great
Two Rome episodes in two days? Is it Christmas already? Keep it up John.I absulutely love it. This game is one of my all time favourites and i've been playing it for the last 15+ years along with GTA Vice City, CS 1.6 , NFSUG 2 and Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I sometimes play a new game, but I always come back to the games I grew up to. There sure are newer games that are superior to these, but I hold them near and dear to my heart.
Jon the loss off slaves isnt because they go to Rome( the senate). Its because youve captured the city with a general so some of the pop goes straight back into the city you captured because its technically governed at that time. If you were to enslave a city without a general then you would not have the loss
Brian Fowler I play on iPhone. Don’t judge me lol. But in the video he keeps the population under control by maxing the taxes and moving all the troops out and retaking the city. I’ve tried this before but every time I try to make a city revolt, my governor dies and the only way to make a city riot is to have a governor (I only have a governor for every 2 or 3 cities) in it so I can max the taxes. Without my governor in the city, I can’t adjust the taxes, I can only change what type of economy there is. But in the video it show him able to change the tax rates without a governor. Do You Know Why?
@@french_bread4961 That and Jon's voice and manner of articulation is, at least to me, infinitely more fun and enjoyable to listen to than the narrator in my head when i read an actual essay. I actually have his video about _Microsoft Excel_ so that i could literally listen to it in my sleep.
People who don't play games think games like GTA make people immoral. Imagine if they saw what you can do in grand strategy games like Rome: Total War.
If the people running the media actually had a grasp of what you are doing in grand strategy games such as this they would be running all over the place screaming "This is literally Hitler!" and accusing companies such as CA and Paradox of turning people into megalomaniac narcissistic bloody dictators!
HOI IS literally Hitler. These games are not shiny enough to get the attention of people who don't even crasp the basics of gaming. Like the traditional media.
RTW was the first TW I ever played. Before I watched this video I didn't know 2 things: 1.) Why population mechanics didn't appear in subsequent titles 2.) How to exploit RTW without console commands Now I know both, thanks! PS. Your delivery style is hilarious.
Some scaling maths, a standard legionary cohort had about 500 fighting men. The standard unit scale in rome total war is 40. 500/40 is a ratio of 12.5. 12.5x 80000 is 1 million. So the game is close to modeling everything to scale.
I love games with this level of depth, can play for hundreds of hours, be able to consistantly beat the campaign, but turns out there a entire new level of mastery you can learn and it's so fufilling weaving all together together even if you was able to beat the game before anyway. I had absolutely no idea just how crazy this game can get.
12:25 I've played this game for years and had never noticed the civil unrest penalty for public order in Croton. Impressive attention to detail by the developers, because in real history, the Romans had only recently pacified that Greek area of southern Italy. They even assisted Pyrrhus of Epirus in his invasion of Italy just years before the campaign begins.
"Operation: Steve Migration" Damn it Steve, We're moving house! "But i like the dorms" NO! WE MOVE TO PATAVIUM! Get your look-a-likes. We're going Roman.
I would say that the Brutii don't have the best religion in the game simply because they don't have a temple that provides law, which makes public order and corruption far more difficult to deal with in the late game, which became very apparent once I did a modded run as the Brutii starting in Numidia and trying to create the Western Roman Empire. I actually would say the Seleucids and Scipii has the best religion in the game, because they each have a forge temple (which when maxed out is in my opinion better than a maxed out Mars temple) and a temple that provides a 10*n level of public order (Asklepios and Saturn respectively.) But I do admit, the Brutii do have a strong religion, which is only made stronger by being readily able to adopt temples from conquered cultures (in your Brutii run you showed us just how powerful seizing control of just one large temple of Artemis can be.)
I haven't played RTW in almost 10 years, but as far as I remember you don't have to get cities to revolt to enslave them again, you can just give them as a gift to someone else and enslave them in the same turn because there will be no troops inside.
So for S&G's, I did a quick calculation in Excel on how many turns it would take to get Carthage to a population to 1 million. Assuming growth stays at 2.5%, it would only take 94 turns.
Jon, you should have shown off what happens in some of the weird custom battles. When I was a kid, I used to set up custom battles a lot on this game. If you set up a fort settlement for the enemy to defend. Fill their entire slots full of peasants. For your side, go full onagers, nothing else. When you attack them, set the onagers to flaming ammunition, and the peasants get so demoralized that they will never come out of the fort to attack your artillery. They just run around the fort dying. Occasionally the peasants will open the doors of the fort to challenge you, but they immediately run back inside. Sit back and enjoy the fireworks ;)
Another great way to screw over the Julii is to just conquer Gaul yourself. That’s what I did in my Brutii campaign and they have 5 cities on the verge of the civil war and I have 30.
35:50 I played this game for years when it came out. Went back and started playing it recently. I NEVER KNEW you could transfer retinue between characters like that!
I found this video to be utterly charming. I’ve loved all of Jon’s R:TW content, and it is enjoyable to watch him flex his classicist muscle. Well done, Jon! Thanks for making this video.
I only recently found him. Jon should invite him to join MATN and grow the company. (yes, let the empire grow until all are nerds. Then the prophecy of Many a True Nerd will be complete. Muhahahaha)
I find it hilarious how the game started freaking out at the end. Oh, this city has near 100k and is exploding still? Aha: make several characters appear with bad pop traits nearby. Me: Laughing, lol - I didn't realize the game would ever do that, and I must have put some 10k hours on it over a very long time. But I never did something like this, even with manually adding population via console.
Juno isn't the best god(des) in tbe Roman world either. Health improves both population growth and Happiness for a time, but as cities grow, Squalor increases until population growth is flat. So Juno just leads to a higher population cap, and reaching it faster (with the possible, never confirmed ancillary benefit of reducing the frequency and severity of un-scripted Plagues). By contrast, Saturn/Jupiter both lead not only to better Public Order, but greatly reduced Corruption through Law, and Saturn provides troop upgrades and unique units at the higher levels... Further, Juno only leads to your characters alternatively developing EITHER the Healthy (increases General HP), OR "Hypochondriac" (greatly reduces General HP) line of traits. By contrast, Saturn leads to a set of mostly-positive traits: Harsh Judge, Austere (prevents/slows the development of the "Extravagant" traits), and Sober (prevents/slows the development of the "Drunkard" traits). Saturn's traits are much more useful. I say ptevent/slow because of the Rome Total War trait system of anti-traits and "point of no return". Basically, all traits exist along a sliding scale (between Great Commander and Inept Commander, or Sober and Drunkard, for instance) with different triggers pushing the needle one way or another (for instance, the presence of aTavern pushes leaders stationed in the city towards becoming Drunkards, whereas a Temple of Saturn pushes them towards becoming Abstemious from alcohol altogether). But once the needle passes a certain point with some trait, it reaches the "Point of No Return" past which traits can no longer swing the other way. So, a Temple of Saturn can sober up a Social Drinker and eventually even push him far towards sobriety, but an actual "Drunken Sot" has already passes the Point of No Return and can never sober up...
Argh! I used to be so bad at this game! I failed to take Apollonia! Young me failed to recognize that the phalanx or pointy stick wall was not a thing to charge my general!
Luke Kuang Especially when you play as the Seleucids and saw Alexandria with barely any garrisoned troops, who could not commence a full scale elephant invasion on those death worshipping bastards?
I love this video !! This is my guy ! I once broke RTW so much that around 250BC Carthage marching with millitia around europe and declared war to Scythia! best game ever :D
So when the game started to take pop off of Carthage DESPITE a positive growth rate... ...Did.. ...Did you break RTW1 SO MUCH you actually made the game develop SENTIENCE?
Mercenaries don't count towards a city's population when you disband them. Food imports (by capturing provinces with Wheat, like Syracuse) and farm/sanitation upgrades all help, though- and you weren't very aggressive about these...
This is, I assume, why the population system never returned. Too easy to cheese. Also, I assume that they disband where they are to save file space. That way you don't have to track the origin of every unit in the game. EDIT: Yeah, this is why. I think I figured out a plausible reason why the game is freaking out when you get high enough. It's not related to your actual population size. It's when you are at 25% squalor and still have a high enough growth to keep going, you'll noticed it started happening as soon as you were over max squalor. Here's my guess: Someone in playtesting figured out the population growth thing, but it was too late to change the max squalor amount in time for release. So they implemented a quick and dirty solution. If you are at max squalor and still growing, the game takes a certain percentage away after calculating your new population. They failed to consider the sheer numbers you can get off of slavery though, which can offset it (albeit slowly).
Mod S.P.Q.R. improves this game. Example - to break Carthage it really takes time and effort even at 4 turns per year. And breaking Carthage is mandatory for Marian reforms to happen.
If you want to get a general the farmer trait you can shift them from city to city as you build or upgrade farms. Being in charge of a city finishing a farm construction gives them a chance to get it on the spot that is much higher than their day to day chance. I wonder how high this could get in Rome 2? The skill and retinue manipulation is much more rediculous there, and chivalry has a crazy effect on growth. The only downside would be you can't transfer most (not all, but most) of the retinue.
"You could keep the city growing even under the effect of plague." Reminds me of That Mitchell and Webb Look: "Thinking of breeding at all? " "We tried." "There was too much sick."
Everyone's favorite Total war, Empire, did bring back the population system, and your armies do draw from the population count. Since most regions have millions though, it isn't really a problem... except for in North America, where some regions start with only a couple thousand people, and you can depopulate them with army recruitment.
I think regarding the grain double counting thing it makes more sense if you remember that more than one kind of grain would be traded commercially so it reflects a range of options. It's definitely just a bug irl but more fun to think of as a feature.
Woow it's really nice to see this game again! It brings me lots of memories, started playing it in 2007-2008 but it was in 2009 that I spent almost all that year playing RTW! It's 10 years since that time, sadly the Rome 2 wasn't that fun anymore, buildings was changed by numbers and the focus was more on graphics and the battles.. (I always liked the empire building more than the battles) Man Shogun Total War was another classic that was really addictive.. Thank you for bringing all these nostalgia feelings! :D
It’s mighty impressive that Marius was able to reform the army a century before he was born.
KonKonVulpix Nice
He was born when every he wants
Fuck you, mom. I'll be born now if I wanna be!
I mean they never mentioned *which* Marius now did they
@@pumpkin6429 More like; "#### you, Great Gran. I'll be born now if I wanna be!"
“Remember that time we stuffed a Gaul village with so many proletariat and Cathargenian slaves that it’s population increased by 1100% in 9 years? Good times” -Cicero
Shrub A Dub 😂😂
@@jahbama6202 Because he pulled it off back then.
You mean Plebs
Weirdly relevant today.
Legatus: “Right lads, welcome to the legion. Today is your fir...”
Aide-de-camp: “Sir, here are the land grants for the new arrivals.”
Legatus: “Men, you have us proud today! Consider yourself a citizen of Rome. Here’s your farm.”
Rome: Total war is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits
and other lies you can tell yourself:
@@publiusthehandsome2314 "x is a perfectly balanced game with no exploits" is a video series by The Spiffing Brit where he basically does this to every game he can think of.
Yessss "the spiffing Brit"!
Needs more tea.
There are some battle exploits dealing with seiges and there is a naval movement exploit but it's nothing like M2TW or Empire TW where you can roll over the map in a handful of turns.
I hate this holiday. Why dedicate an entire day to subjecting peasants to lame jokes and overall misery when you should be able to do that 365 days a year? This is ridiculous.
tiberius brutus for dictator!
Wait, what do you mean we aren't supposed to do that all year?
God I missed these
It seems your brother Oppius is quite the manager of Carthage Tiberius.
Contrary to the attempts to plow the earth with salt, it seems he has made a city to rival Rome.
But what about leap years?
Are you suggesting we should give them breaks!?
Oppius Brutus: "I rule the world"
Senator: "You rule Carthage"
Oppius Brutus: *Gestures toward slave market containing half the world's population* "I don't like to repeat myself"
Also
Oppius Brutus: Did I stutter?
🤣🤣🤣😭
"Sorry, I'm getting distracted."
Nooo! More Ancient History Hour with Jon please!
This is why I'm subscribed
Yeeeees
mars mission supervisor lol yeah he really pulled me in there
I wouldn't mind a 5-hour lecture about ancient rome from Jon
I think Carthage provided a large amount of grain to Rome too, since the Vandals, a nomadic people who were kicked out of everywhere where they tried to settle, ending up holding Rome to ransom when they took Carthage!
Can anyone else imagine Jon mimicking Mr. Narrator Man while making this video?
"THE GRAIN IS OURS!"
Absolutely.
"All Rome will be amazed at all this slavery! THE GRAIN IS OURS!"
This is a heroic harvest, worthy of roman farmers!
@@thehesedingking338 Worthy of roman farms
If he's going to talk about grain it has to be done in a ' husky' voice.
"What the fuck!"
- Gaius Marius, when he entered the senate and was informed that his reforms had been introduced decades before his birth.
Census taker "Why is everyone in this city named Steve?"
So they can be controlled by the millennium rod in a bid to raise the population growth rate even higher by ordering them to reproduce.
"Lol just use romeshell idiot"
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
I am shocked that this comment has 146 likes but no replies
lol
@@justderp5713 there is not much to add. Nothing actualy
Lol
I miss romeshell in the new games
*raises a legion of Hastati in Lilybaeum*
*soldiers eagerly ask where they're going*
*upon arrival in Carthage* Right, that's you lads. Well done, thank you for your service, now sod off.
"Have a house, while you're at it"
Ryan Brewis don’t get it
Its british for "Your service in the army is done"
Basically, Jon took an army, had them march from one city to another and the soldiers with great eagerness asked "What are your orders, sir?"
And the captain told them that their service is no longer needed.
In other words, they got a free house.
DZ oh ok thx
37:00 After annihilating nations across the world in multiple games, Jon turns to destroy one final empire; his own. The circle is complete
Oh yes, before RTW was patched, it'd been so broken:
a phalanx could poke their pikes through closed city gates preventing ramming;
a unit of elephants could smash a dozen Roman cohorts;
you could do as many sally battles as you wanted in one turn;
you could give away your rebelling cities to the enemy and take them back since there were no garrisons there;
you could place a unit in the retraining queue, merge it with another one and get more people in it than it was supposed to have...
Those are a few things I can think of right now from the top of my head. And I've always enjoyed the game immensely.
The 1st one and 4th one still work for me lol
The mutual growth-bonuses, even between grain-producing regions, you cover at 19:00 actually makes perfect sense.
Some regions in the ancient Mediterranean were extremely fertile. But farming was also very fickle with the technology of the day. Crop failures could easily lead to starvation, and food stored in granaries could easily be ruined by rats and other vermin.
Having grain-producing regions trade with each other could help to stabilize the food supply. If Egypt experienced crop failures due to a poor set of Nile floods that year, or Carthage reaped a poor harvest due to a dry winter in the upriver mountains that year (farming in Carthage- back then called Libya- was heavily dependent on irrigation from rivers fed from the mountains nearby. A dry year in the mountains could lead to a lack of adequate water for Libyan farmers to irrigate their crops without risking salinizaton of the soil- which is what ultimately occurred over time, with a large portion of Tunisian farmland now being degraded from its Carthaginian era heights...) then one grain-prodycing region could sell its surplus to another. This might later be balanced by trade the other way when the second region experienced crop failures. This prevented starvation in years with bad harvests, and reduced grain spoilage due to long storage times (which would have been necessary with less trade).
The net result was larger populations could be supported by an interconnected network of freely-trading cities along the Mediterranean in Roman times than could ever be supported later in Medieval times, despite agricultural technology actually advancing in some ways since Roman times... (of course, lack of Sanitation, Feudalism, and disease also all played into the smaller urban populations of Medieval Europe...)
Great point! I find that a lot of people (anachronistically) assume that farming back then was just the same as it is now, but actually farming in the ancient world was a tricky business, making famines and large sudden migrations rampant
Just came here to appreciate this comment, one year later. It's kind of mind boggling that we've already created ecological disaster on a planetary scale with soil salinization, and we're going full steam ahead.
Rome: Total War Is An Absolute Nightmare - This Is Why
Ayyy!
Im sorry but what, i think we all know that this game is flawless and without any problems
Rome total war is a gift to this world
plz make fallout 2 more frequent!!!
@@verdantsquire950 wooosh
Rome reached a million during Nero, but still the number you see is the male population that fits for an army career, so your 100k is ×8 the normal population of a city at that time, meaning that the mechanics are good made!
Advisor: We have so much grain sir, I took the liberty of shipping it off to the distant colonies to maximise profits which will give us a nic--
Aulus Brutus: No!
Advisor: ?... No sir?
Aulus Brutus: BABIES! We must make more! Send it all to Italy... While your at it stamp the exports with an import stamp as well, that way we also import the grain we export so we have more grain to export later which we can the import to eat
Advisor: bu...
Aulus Brutus: And I destroyed every other port in the empire except this one here so you can't send it anywhere else but here hahahahahahah.
Advisor: This isn't a go-
Aulus Brutus: AND! tax everyone so much that they rebel, then enslave the Romans and ship them here over and over
Alright fair enough. In hindsight, appointing him as a leader might not have been our best idea.
Oh this is odd... it's probably just because I'm tired, but I think this comment is an optical illusion. Focus your eyes on the first sentence and then notice the middle of the comment, there's a diagonal line right in the center.
Edit: Line spacing may be different for different devices so this might not work for other people. : (
You, Lady Kate are just simply Tired.
@@DZ-1987Awh darn. Here I was thinking I made some huge discovery that would baffle the scientific community for years, lol.
Nah, M'lady. If you found it, likelihood is, someone at some point has found it as well.
This video is glorious
Alex ur here
I think its a Hoi4 mod.
Yo man
Two things I hate in this game:
1- The fact you can't cross short distances of water without a ship.
2- Ariminum.
What's wrong with Arminium?
@@sappypngn Its negative income always pisses me off.
@@backstagerm5733 Never had that problem if memory serves. But counter to this vid, I actively pull out of cities, let them rebel, then retake it and exterminate the population. Low population in big cities eliminates squalor and makes for high profit.
Govern fairly, but when they act against your interests(and therefore, Rome's interests) put them to the sword.
@@sappypngn Good idea 😂
@@backstagerm5733 Because payment of your army and generals is calculated among population. Which means big cities like Arminium are paying your army, but are unable to generate so much profit a thus are officially having negative balance.
Jon! In Rome 1 there was a mechanic that allows you to visit a city under your control as if you were in a battle, just to have a little bit of exploring and see how the city looks without being threatened. You could actually see citizens wandering around the city! And, if I recall correctly, the amount of people walking around is dependent on the amount of population the city holds in the charts. I sure would love to see how Carthage looks with the population boom, putting it in at least thrice the amount of citizens it should be holding!
I’m gonna try that now, I’ll upload if the city looks more populous, I’ll also do the same city, after I wipe the population after a revolt
@@sethgaston8347can't leave us hanging like this
“*Operation Steve Migration*”
10/10 Video would Jon again
This being April Fools' and how the title cut off on mobile, I'd half expected a sarcastic hour long rant about how rome total war was broken. I'm very pleased it wasn't.
Same! I was also pleasantly surprised by the video.
I was expecting spiffing brit to pop up and pretend to be jon, if I'm honest.
Well id be interested, as many hours he put into it, he should be able to see the two sides of the coin, and making a totally believable and referencable critic. Someone who critics the thing he knows inside out kinda has bonus believability.
Rome total war is the best total war game of all. its my favorite. best music, best map, best units. I love the wonders. with awesome videos for capturing wonders and a special feature. I love it. its not broken at all. its perfect.
Ha kids nowadays are like "it is 4k which means it's not a game and cannot be played" they missed out on good games like this
As well as ruining the genre of strategy games..... Well developers did to make them click and point instead of strategy
@@jamessteven711 European war Napoleon available in Google play and appstore with single and multi player is a real and good strategy game. Not all new games have been click and point in the strategy gender at all. Actually the games have been improved in manu things like graphics
jon you should have used the RTW street view mechanic to see what 100k people looks like
That is spot on!! If trade is pop related, the roads might be funny too!
The same as 100 , it doesn't change at all.
yeah sadly the game doesn’t model population amount for the size of cities, ones with 30k people seem to have the size of one with 10k
Won't show
I was so pissed they took that away from Rome 2..
WHAT?! What do you mean Roman towns keep continuously rebelling in an endless cycle?! This cannot stand! We demand that you keep taking them back and enslaving them over and over again! Oh, and have some good quality troops for your trouble.
Another tip. By offering to attack enemy factions at the start of the game, you can make about 1.5k denarii from your allies. Easy money.
Oh no... soon you'll be obsessing over tea and the motherland!
Speaking of, if you don't have a hot cuppa in front of you, what are you waiting for? You can't break a game without tea, it's ungentlemanly!
Dave made me say Coffee
Hes already converted claire!
You seem very Spiffin' right now... The Communi-tea begins :P
That's a very angolcentric thing to say.
@@thespiffingbrit Glad to make you proud, chum!
Dr. Jonlove and how I learned to stop worrying and love Rome: Total War
I award you the prestigious comment title in the category of "most under appreciated joke"
I almost died laughing when he said "don't forget to get my frequent slaver card stamped"
I love this game... I remember playing this game on my gaint computer in 2004 (it used to take 5 minutes for 1 battle to load) . Now in 2020 I play this game on my iPad and fast loading.....the future is great
Two Rome episodes in two days?
Is it Christmas already?
Keep it up John.I absulutely love it. This game is one of my all time favourites and i've been playing it for the last 15+ years along with GTA Vice City, CS 1.6 , NFSUG 2 and Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I sometimes play a new game, but I always come back to the games I grew up to. There sure are newer games that are superior to these, but I hold them near and dear to my heart.
I remember back in the day getting upset when the Marian reforms hit my campaign.
It made my 20 stack hastati armies obsolete.
Yeah
Jon the loss off slaves isnt because they go to Rome( the senate). Its because youve captured the city with a general so some of the pop goes straight back into the city you captured because its technically governed at that time. If you were to enslave a city without a general then you would not have the loss
Jon's excitement in his voice. You can tell he's proud of this one.
Wait wait wait wait... have I been playing this for years. WIthout knowing i can move retinue from leader to leader....
I just learned tonight that ports could be blockaded by land.
Yeah. I am learning new things this year.
Brian Fowler wait what? How
@@kojak5500 Just select a land unit and left click on an enemy port, like you would with a ship.
Brian Fowler I play on iPhone. Don’t judge me lol. But in the video he keeps the population under control by maxing the taxes and moving all the troops out and retaking the city. I’ve tried this before but every time I try to make a city revolt, my governor dies and the only way to make a city riot is to have a governor (I only have a governor for every 2 or 3 cities) in it so I can max the taxes. Without my governor in the city, I can’t adjust the taxes, I can only change what type of economy there is. But in the video it show him able to change the tax rates without a governor. Do You Know Why?
"It was just an excuse to play some more Rome Total War!" By all means, we would gladly watch that!
He hasn't played a Barbarian faction for the Internet.
@@Bloodlyshiva he really should eventually.
Jon just sounds so happy when he plays Rome, and to be honest I completely relate
More MATN video essays? Love you Jon.
This essay seems suspiciously like a regular gameplay video. Hmm....
@@RepublicOfUs Details details.
I'm honestly surprised by how thoroughly I enjoy his video essays. I guess so long as I don't have to write them, they can be quite the past time.
@@french_bread4961 That and Jon's voice and manner of articulation is, at least to me, infinitely more fun and enjoyable to listen to than the narrator in my head when i read an actual essay.
I actually have his video about _Microsoft Excel_ so that i could literally listen to it in my sleep.
People who don't play games think games like GTA make people immoral.
Imagine if they saw what you can do in grand strategy games like Rome: Total War.
Now I can't stop imagining a crazy old dude on Fox News blaming the sex slave trade on video games, with Jons video playing in the background.
*cough* ck2 *cough*
If the people running the media actually had a grasp of what you are doing in grand strategy games such as this they would be running all over the place screaming "This is literally Hitler!" and accusing companies such as CA and Paradox of turning people into megalomaniac narcissistic bloody dictators!
HOI IS literally Hitler. These games are not shiny enough to get the attention of people who don't even crasp the basics of gaming. Like the traditional media.
Or evs n worse any paradox grand strategy (ck2,stellaris,etc.)
RTW was the first TW I ever played. Before I watched this video I didn't know 2 things:
1.) Why population mechanics didn't appear in subsequent titles
2.) How to exploit RTW without console commands
Now I know both, thanks!
PS. Your delivery style is hilarious.
This is unironically a testimony of how awesome the systems in Rome Total War (and medieval 1 and 2) were.
Some scaling maths, a standard legionary cohort had about 500 fighting men. The standard unit scale in rome total war is 40. 500/40 is a ratio of 12.5. 12.5x 80000 is 1 million. So the game is close to modeling everything to scale.
I love games with this level of depth, can play for hundreds of hours, be able to consistantly beat the campaign, but turns out there a entire new level of mastery you can learn and it's so fufilling weaving all together together even if you was able to beat the game before anyway. I had absolutely no idea just how crazy this game can get.
12:25 I've played this game for years and had never noticed the civil unrest penalty for public order in Croton.
Impressive attention to detail by the developers, because in real history, the Romans had only recently pacified that Greek area of southern Italy. They even assisted Pyrrhus of Epirus in his invasion of Italy just years before the campaign begins.
They did a good job with some history in this game. Jerusalem unrest is high, too. Go back through the game files.
For anyone who's curious, he played Rome Total War for about 16 hours to make this video.
According to Claire on Twitter.
If only real governors spent as much time on the job
Worth it
Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up
"Operation: Steve Migration"
Damn it Steve, We're moving house!
"But i like the dorms"
NO! WE MOVE TO PATAVIUM! Get your look-a-likes. We're going Roman.
Quick question for everyone watching, how many of you are going to go and watch the original vatinian playthrough after this (Praise Vatinius)
I have been playing Rome since it came out and never did I ever know that you could move retinues. Jesus
Same for me.
@@ZacklFair i figured that out by accident, then I got to M2tw and realized they broke that mechanic.
yeah i found that out about 12 years later.
hengineer
you can still move relics and objects though
I had no idea when the armies changed in this one. I can't wait to hop on and grow a city to 5 asap to get those good units, thanks Jon!
I would say that the Brutii don't have the best religion in the game simply because they don't have a temple that provides law, which makes public order and corruption far more difficult to deal with in the late game, which became very apparent once I did a modded run as the Brutii starting in Numidia and trying to create the Western Roman Empire. I actually would say the Seleucids and Scipii has the best religion in the game, because they each have a forge temple (which when maxed out is in my opinion better than a maxed out Mars temple) and a temple that provides a 10*n level of public order (Asklepios and Saturn respectively.) But I do admit, the Brutii do have a strong religion, which is only made stronger by being readily able to adopt temples from conquered cultures (in your Brutii run you showed us just how powerful seizing control of just one large temple of Artemis can be.)
I haven't played RTW in almost 10 years, but as far as I remember you don't have to get cities to revolt to enslave them again, you can just give them as a gift to someone else and enslave them in the same turn because there will be no troops inside.
So for S&G's, I did a quick calculation in Excel on how many turns it would take to get Carthage to a population to 1 million. Assuming growth stays at 2.5%, it would only take 94 turns.
Jon, you should have shown off what happens in some of the weird custom battles.
When I was a kid, I used to set up custom battles a lot on this game.
If you set up a fort settlement for the enemy to defend.
Fill their entire slots full of peasants.
For your side, go full onagers, nothing else.
When you attack them, set the onagers to flaming ammunition, and the peasants get so demoralized that they will never come out of the fort to attack your artillery. They just run around the fort dying.
Occasionally the peasants will open the doors of the fort to challenge you, but they immediately run back inside.
Sit back and enjoy the fireworks ;)
Try elephants vs dogs, enjoy
I wouldn`t mind a series where Jon talks about how game mechanics relate to the real life ancient world.
Played this game for such a long time and never realised you could transfer retinue
Jon TrueNerd, the only man to combine a Degree in Classical History with A UA-cam Letsplay career
Which apparently also makes him completely blind.
Another great way to screw over the Julii is to just conquer Gaul yourself. That’s what I did in my Brutii campaign and they have 5 cities on the verge of the civil war and I have 30.
Spiffing Brit? Is that you??
Right????
craz\y how they make near identical content
I was like, is he just copying his video. What is going on?
There must be a reason this guy popped up in my feed. Oh wait, I've watched most of TSB's videos
Racist
35:50 I played this game for years when it came out. Went back and started playing it recently. I NEVER KNEW you could transfer retinue between characters like that!
You forgot to take the wonder, statue of Zeus which gives +4 population growth to all settlements👍
I'm not saying a Horrible Histories-esque series should come about and Jon headline it, but...
Well I am. That would be boss.
I found this video to be utterly charming. I’ve loved all of Jon’s R:TW content, and it is enjoyable to watch him flex his classicist muscle.
Well done, Jon! Thanks for making this video.
"You can stack as many slaves as you want on top of each other" Many A True Nerd, 2019
I absolutely adore this game. Who else wants an "Ancient Mediterranean" video with Jon?
I really wish we could have seen a city view of this at the end.
@16:00
Brutii: Gods i LOVE Gauls. My father loved them too, even before we signed that alliance treaty.
Julii: Et tu, Brutii?
I feel like this is basically exactly what Rome really did. Rush a late-game army early and take the whole thing over
simmons865 Holy crap you’re right.
I think you got some Spiffing Brit into my Many A True Nerd... and I love it.
I only recently found him.
Jon should invite him to join MATN and grow the company.
(yes, let the empire grow until all are nerds. Then the prophecy of Many a True Nerd will be complete. Muhahahaha)
... So Carthage became The Beast from Stellaris? I LOVE IT
I find it hilarious how the game started freaking out at the end. Oh, this city has near 100k and is exploding still? Aha: make several characters appear with bad pop traits nearby.
Me: Laughing, lol - I didn't realize the game would ever do that, and I must have put some 10k hours on it over a very long time. But I never did something like this, even with manually adding population via console.
"I guess we'll just help ourselves to Carthage then"
Put that on a t-shirt and a mug
hello jon, ive been a fan of yours for years (since before the first cake) keep up the good work.
Juno isn't the best god(des) in tbe Roman world either.
Health improves both population growth and Happiness for a time, but as cities grow, Squalor increases until population growth is flat. So Juno just leads to a higher population cap, and reaching it faster (with the possible, never confirmed ancillary benefit of reducing the frequency and severity of un-scripted Plagues). By contrast, Saturn/Jupiter both lead not only to better Public Order, but greatly reduced Corruption through Law, and Saturn provides troop upgrades and unique units at the higher levels...
Further, Juno only leads to your characters alternatively developing EITHER the Healthy (increases General HP), OR "Hypochondriac" (greatly reduces General HP) line of traits. By contrast, Saturn leads to a set of mostly-positive traits: Harsh Judge, Austere (prevents/slows the development of the "Extravagant" traits), and Sober (prevents/slows the development of the "Drunkard" traits). Saturn's traits are much more useful.
I say ptevent/slow because of the Rome Total War trait system of anti-traits and "point of no return".
Basically, all traits exist along a sliding scale (between Great Commander and Inept Commander, or Sober and Drunkard, for instance) with different triggers pushing the needle one way or another (for instance, the presence of aTavern pushes leaders stationed in the city towards becoming Drunkards, whereas a Temple of Saturn pushes them towards becoming Abstemious from alcohol altogether). But once the needle passes a certain point with some trait, it reaches the "Point of No Return" past which traits can no longer swing the other way. So, a Temple of Saturn can sober up a Social Drinker and eventually even push him far towards sobriety, but an actual "Drunken Sot" has already passes the Point of No Return and can never sober up...
Great way to take advantage of fully knowing the game mechanics! :)
Argh! I used to be so bad at this game! I failed to take Apollonia! Young me failed to recognize that the phalanx or pointy stick wall was not a thing to charge my general!
Luke Kuang
Ouch, just thinking about charging your general towards a phalanx head on hurts me. XD
@@jazzyboy3742 Recently replayed the game. As the Julii I couldn't resist taking over literally all of Greece, oops. Maybe i'm too good now.
@@NotFinnish
Ey, I did that too!
@@jazzyboy3742 Plays as Julii: Is that Alexandria lightly defended? *smacks lips*
Luke Kuang
Especially when you play as the Seleucids and saw Alexandria with barely any garrisoned troops, who could not commence a full scale elephant invasion on those death worshipping bastards?
Rome Total War: it's actually a math game!
Wait, why is nobody playing Rome Total War anymore?
Because nobody wants to play cool math games.
Oh yes, we are!! I have newer TW's but Rome"s most fun!
i saved and quit out of my current RTW1 campaign for this vid :P
There are people still playing it and there is still an active mod community.
RTW1 is the best TW, change my mind
Wow, just woke-up and was literally thinking of either playing RTW or watching Jon 0.o
Welcome in Roman Republic 80% of our population lives in Carthage and most of them are there against their will.
Growing cities faster than plagues? Well that's just the Industrial Age there, Jon.
Great video! I'd love to see if it's possible to get up to 1 million. I doubt anyone has ever achieved that before. The race is now on!
I love this video !! This is my guy ! I once broke RTW so much that around 250BC Carthage marching with millitia around europe and declared war to Scythia! best game ever :D
So when the game started to take pop off of Carthage DESPITE a positive growth rate...
...Did..
...Did you break RTW1 SO MUCH you actually made the game develop SENTIENCE?
Mercenaries don't count towards a city's population when you disband them.
Food imports (by capturing provinces with Wheat, like Syracuse) and farm/sanitation upgrades all help, though- and you weren't very aggressive about these...
The highest population I have reached is ~45,000. Then the AI revolts with 1 to 2 stacks of endgame, fully experienced units from that region.
This is, I assume, why the population system never returned. Too easy to cheese.
Also, I assume that they disband where they are to save file space. That way you don't have to track the origin of every unit in the game.
EDIT: Yeah, this is why. I think I figured out a plausible reason why the game is freaking out when you get high enough. It's not related to your actual population size. It's when you are at 25% squalor and still have a high enough growth to keep going, you'll noticed it started happening as soon as you were over max squalor.
Here's my guess: Someone in playtesting figured out the population growth thing, but it was too late to change the max squalor amount in time for release. So they implemented a quick and dirty solution. If you are at max squalor and still growing, the game takes a certain percentage away after calculating your new population. They failed to consider the sheer numbers you can get off of slavery though, which can offset it (albeit slowly).
Mod S.P.Q.R. improves this game. Example - to break Carthage it really takes time and effort even at 4 turns per year. And breaking Carthage is mandatory for Marian reforms to happen.
Put in some console commands to make the governor a brilliant engineer, builder, good ruler, mathematician,... and watch absurd results come in
oh yes, I've been waiting for something unconventional today
If you want to get a general the farmer trait you can shift them from city to city as you build or upgrade farms. Being in charge of a city finishing a farm construction gives them a chance to get it on the spot that is much higher than their day to day chance.
I wonder how high this could get in Rome 2? The skill and retinue manipulation is much more rediculous there, and chivalry has a crazy effect on growth. The only downside would be you can't transfer most (not all, but most) of the retinue.
Many Jon can suffice in barbarian evasion battles now with hours of trolling the game.. your time to shine buddy
"You could keep the city growing even under the effect of plague."
Reminds me of That Mitchell and Webb Look:
"Thinking of breeding at all?
"
"We tried."
"There was too much sick."
Seems like conquering a plague city cleanses it, I even dared enslavement instead of extermination to see if it causes an epidemic
Honestly, give me more Rome Total War, friend. I would like and favorite every episode of a Seleucid playthrough, or something similarly challenging!
don't forget to get your frequent slaver card stamped while your passing through... that has me in stitches
Everyone's favorite Total war, Empire, did bring back the population system, and your armies do draw from the population count.
Since most regions have millions though, it isn't really a problem... except for in North America, where some regions start with only a couple thousand people, and you can depopulate them with army recruitment.
"Time to take advantage of *SLAVERY*" I'm sure during the history of humanity someone said the same thing unironically.
I think regarding the grain double counting thing it makes more sense if you remember that more than one kind of grain would be traded commercially so it reflects a range of options. It's definitely just a bug irl but more fun to think of as a feature.
Woow it's really nice to see this game again! It brings me lots of memories, started playing it in 2007-2008 but it was in 2009 that I spent almost all that year playing RTW!
It's 10 years since that time, sadly the Rome 2 wasn't that fun anymore, buildings was changed by numbers and the focus was more on graphics and the battles.. (I always liked the empire building more than the battles)
Man Shogun Total War was another classic that was really addictive..
Thank you for bringing all these nostalgia feelings! :D
"Plague out on the streets"
-Honey, this is a perfect time to have a baby
Wait a god damn minute. You can drag and drop retinue members?
This game has been out for 20 bloody years and I've just learned this.
can this be done in other total wars?
hmm
I'm surprised you didn't use the console commands to add population to a point to see if your 2.5% eventually counteracted the population loss.
Funny thing is, this mechanic was explained in the printed game manual, but never mentioned in the game advices.
Me: sees *is completely broken* on the title
Also me: ok, so Jon is The Spiffing Brit.