Want to see more video game production budgets? Check out our video where we compare indie and AAA game production budgets: ua-cam.com/video/2t3DNmvXAIc/v-deo.html
"So far I have made $0 from the game. That may look like a high number, but consider that it took four years to make - that works out to approximately $0/year." lmao i'm dead
He got lucky with a publisher who liked his game and gave their full support to him. He catered to a wide and supportive game genre audience. And for all of his time working he was mostly alone, struggling with impostor syndrome and relying on his girlfriend to fund his game development efforts. It's definitely a grim fantasy with a happy ending, still a cautionary tale if I've ever heard of one.
...and it's still talking about nothing but outliers. The video is in no way very accurate in its presentation. Hugely inflated numbers and a way too optimistic view on things. Not to mention how $300.000+ budgets aren't exactly 'indie game' grade budgets. And yes, I'm well aware making games isn't cheap. Thing is, most indies invest their own time and value in them, at a fraction of triple A budgets. Indie devs are not 'small triple A devs'. Heck most truly successful indie devs have been releasing small games for years, at fairly moderate profits. The 'idiots' wasting their money on fast cars generally go bankrupt and fail longterm, despite any hit games.
The audacity to say "Let's dive right in" after burning 75 seconds on an 'intro' comprised of reiterating that you were ABOUT to tell us something lmao
we are lucky he puts the annoying "subscribe, youtube deleted 100 subscribers" at the beginning where you can just preemptively skip it. other youtubers put the nagging somewhere in the middle, different locations. and its cancer. 10 minute video and half of it is people nagging you to subscribe even when you are subscribed, i just gave and i dont subscribe to anyone anymore.
you can make games with 0 budget, but you need to be very skilled, it will take many years and you can use only "open sorce" software and ressorces, but make sure there are no hidden license costs :D Many low budget developer choose to distribute their software/games for free on a non comercial basis, like this they can avoid any taxes and license costs. they live of their youtube channel and content creator support websites like patreon :3
This is a really insightful video, with excellent production value! And thank you for featuring Must Dash Amigos as Community Member of the Week - really awesome of you :)
It's important to remember that a multi million dollar game can fail financially (see "Duke Nukem Forever" and "Superman" for the N64 for example), while 50,000$ indi games can make millions (see "Undertale" and "Minecraft"). So to all indies out there (like me) that don't have this 6 - 7 digit budget - don't be discouraged, people were able to do alot with 5 digit budegts as well.
Small Indie games dont really cost anything except time and effort you are willing to put into, and the game would look greater the more time and effort you put into, no need for any sort of budget unless you are too lazy to make your own art or search for your own sounds/musics and actually have to pay someone else to make them for you
Great video! Not only the financial costs but the costs of all the hidden sacrifices a dev has to make. It's even more for a solo indiedev such as me. It's also examples of why a successful crowd funding campaign can be critical. Sadly I haven't heard of any of these games other then Destiny.
Brigador's argument on Steam about why their game costs 20 dollars is is wrong, and the gamers critizing them are right, let me explain. Imagine that I decide out of my own volition to cook a great donut, it takes me a month to create it and then I decide to charge 2,000 dollars for it. People interested are willing to pay me 2 dollars, maybe 4, but I argue them that they should pay 2,000 dollars since it took me 1 month to make it. See how it doesn't make much sense? Brigador assumes their resulting product value is directly proportional to the time they spent producing it, but unfortunately this is not true. It's just the nature of creative endeavors that things are not that straightforward. An important thing on this matter is that they decided to create their engine, which is a questionable decision given how good commercial engines are. That decision obviously cost them a lot of time and money, and if we assume it was indeed the wrong decision then why do the buyers have to carry the burden of it? The bottom line is your product costs what is costs based on market value and what people are willing to pay for it, nothing more. I'm not hating on Brigador though, as an entrepreneur myself I'm just trying to bring some light to the matter.
@ask gamedev I'm actually pretty young and just about to start my 7th grade year and I already have my eyes set on becoming a game designer though I have no experience or idea on how it works I would love to start learning how to take steps as a game designer
This is why I paused making games alone. The balance of Cost / Quality will always be the hard equation, and more like gambling for Indie to bet on their games.
Tip from an artist to those planning on making games. STOP saying this "oh that is too expensive I can find someone else who can do it for less" That is something that irritates me from indie game devs, of course not all but I've had many conversations with that phrase included. If you can find someone that will do your art for less don't waste other people's time
If you're game dev studio and having issues with people complaining about your price DON'T logically explain to people why the game is worth that much but instead you should improve your marketing and sales. Think of it like going upto someone you're attracted to and saying you should go out with me because I'll put a lot of effort into the relationship without there being any "spark"
Marketing is only good up to a certain point and even then it’s not guaranteed to work (while costing a pretty penny). There’s free ways to advertise your game, it only goes so far if your luck is bad. The main problem with video games is that you can’t really adjust your game price since the competition sales their games at low prices already. ‘’Unique’’ or ‘’Prenium’’ products can be sold way higher and be justified because nothing like it exists, but it doesn’t work that way with games. Games are one of the most unique products out there but they don’t have that luxury. If your sales are low, you can’t make up for it by raising the price, your sales and reviews will tank. Also, it’s kinda established in the community of gamers as a standart that indie games don’t go often beyond 20$ and triple A titles can go from 80$ or 110$ sometimes.
I don't think I want to know how much it has cost me to make Metal Heads, the game isn't for sale yet, but I imagine that it would be a hell of a lot. I would have a stab in the dark and say about $130k over 2 years, probably around $40k in the last 4 months. Just the lead up to PAX Australia this year, I have been working around 26 hours a week in my day job, some weeks 39 hours, and any days off, I spend about 8-12 hours on the game in preparation. My life right now, consists of my day job and game dev, I'm also in a relationship, and working this much puts a lot of strain on that relationship, it's also very difficult to maintain my health in this period of time, and my body and mind are suffering as a result, and i'm typically a fit and healthy person with a positive outlook, so the cost is far more than just monetary. In the long run though, I do this, because I love it, it is my passion, I love creating, and I love sharing, and ultimately, it is my way out of the endless rut that I've seen so many people get stuck in. Not many people have that opportunity, I do (you do too!), and I'm not going to waste it, even if it is one giant gamble. Don't let anything put you off chasing after that dream, go for it, and give it everything you've got.
Wow.. being in the *exact* same spot for a few years now, it was so comforting to read this.. Specially resonating with the piece about how even at the expense of your own health (both physical and mental sometimes) you just don't quit.. that's raw passion right there.. and when you combine that with the fact that it's a gamble that could possibly get you financial freedom, it's just so worth pursuing! Just take care, and make sure you don't mentally burn yourself!
I have no money, don't know how to code, and can't draw for shit.... But damnit if I'm not going to learn how to make my first game. If it's a passion you have, even if you're broke AF, you can still do it. For those in the same boat; Welcome, and keep it up! You'll do awesome!
@@RafaFiedoMusic I would work for minimum wage of germany (8 euro) if I would be living in Thailand or anywhere, where I could live for 100 euros a months. Thing is in the US living is so freaking expensive.
Rafal Basker rent in Denver, CO is $1500/month. Game Dev alone isn’t a sustainable income, so I own a construction company too. I work 12-16 hrs/day 6-7 days a week between game dev and construction, but it’s worth it to be an entrepreneur.
@@fresch4395 "Thing is in the US living is so freaking expensive. " You just told it to the European lol (Well, Poland is cheap but Europe has more expensive consumer goods than US / higher taxes, housing is biggest variable). Then move to Thailand and make your indie game from Thailand lol, noone is saying no to that. @ Skjöld Game Studio >Move to the super-expensive megacity that has billion dollars in housing markets where politics&property market make love to each other to do project you can do from your mother basement.
Imagine being one of the people working on Shovel Knight and refusing the offer to work for free and walking only to find it was a bad mistake later on. I like the breakdown of the numbers for the card based game. Helps you work things out
That argument from the Brigador dev in the steam forum is good for an employee to boss dialogue, not a company to consumer dialogue. Like it or not the consumer ultimately decides the subjective value of the game for what the game itself is, not the time that went into it. If the game's price is higher than that, they won't buy it. Look at Duke Nukem, the amount of time spent on it does not reflect its value. What the dev is actually arguing without realizing it is his wages. Thats what it means to get paid by an employer, you work a certain amount of hours doing whatever it is and that creates value. So the amount you get paid is what you're valued at by your employer. That most certainly is not intrinsically tied to the product value.
First things first, great video! No offense to Stellar Jockeys but but players don't care how hard we work as devs or what we sacrifice in our personal lives to ship a game. What matters to them is the enjoyment value, as it should be.
True, it doesnt matter if the chef missed his son's birthday to make the food you are eating, it doesnt matter if he wasnt in the mood to cook ,you paid for that food and its the chef's responsibility to respect the value of your money
WarWulf778 “As it should be” As a game dev: fuck no. What the hell are you on about? The human cost for a video game is not worth it. That’s just running a shit company.
It's annoying that the Devs of Brigador stated their game is $20 dollars because of the time they put into it. That's not how any of this works. A game is only worth what people will pay for it. that's the end.
This was more discouraging to me than encouraging. It costs too much to make a game and I simply don’t have the money, even though I do have the drive to continue learning unity.
@Leocesar3D In reality the net worth can be lower than "Gross revenue / 2". Example, my country have no tax treaty will US. Therefore If I sell my game on Steam. I only get 40% of the gross as Steam take 30% and the US government tax another 30%. On top of that I may have to pay tax to my own country.
That arguing about how much a game would cost coming from gamers are completely disgusting, based on actual data from developers. On consumers perspectives, they might have a point, but generally speaking, game consumers know nothing about how much a game actually costs at all. Knowledge is indeed power tho.
The thing is, consumers have no need to know how mush it costs, they will judge based on the entertainment they can get of a game, then the playtime they can keep themselves invested and then the graphical finishes, So, instead of expecting them to know is more realistic to make a budget and expected earnings based on those factors
"That arguing about how much a game would cost coming from gamers are completely disgusting" You can't really blame them. Production costs (for anything) are generally kept hidden or grossly exaggerated. Even throughout this entire video, there were no hard, exact numbers on anything. It was all rough estimates. Then you have to add in all the costs that regular employees, let alone customers, never know about. Biggest one being all the government fees and taxes for all sorts of things. Most people have only ever received a paycheck or welfare. They will never know the costs of operating a business. However, how much it costs to produce something doesn't matter to the consumer. They only thing that matters to a consumer is: what is the cost vs value of the product.
Some of these numbers surprise me, It's wild how much Platform Fees and Taxes take out of a Game's Revenue... a little demotivating, but I guess it just inspires me to want to make a great game to sell more copies to offset it.
I've been working on a game every Saturday for the past 3 years. Progress is slow, obviously. But at least it hasn't cost anything. Even if I end up making £1, I've still landed me some profit. Kerching.
You’re forgetting the opportunity cost. If each mount has 3 weeks minimum than there are 36 Saturdays in a year. So while you have been spending 108 days developing that game, couldn’t you have done something a bit more profitable (that’s why i stick to web development. Sure if you prefer freelancing there isn’t going to be much cash at first, but if you get a good reputation, it can get reasonably better. Best part is that most people/companies want more or less the same thing, so you’ll just copy past the same line of code, change the visuals, colors and little bit of functionality and you’re done).
@@kalakaritasansar9636 C++, it's my own engine. I did try and use Unity engine but I didn't like the GC. I needed better memory control. Looking at how much Unity has progressed over the past three years, I wish I had stuck with it. I would have had five times as much work done on the actual game.
as a student who makes games alone all my games have costed me less than $300 to produce and each one has paid for itself and then some - granted, my games might be shit though.. 👀
@@Minya40 i remember working for like 1 year and getting a payday 2 key, i thought it was worth cause i never got paid before and didnt think time was valuable
Seriously, what small time indie developer makes $120K a year during development?! WTF Thats almost a quarter million for a two year job...what kind of ridiculous estimate is that
Thats the cost for hiring the developer (a company also pays taxes on what they give you. And you pay taxes on what you receive) and not what the developer receives. Dont know where you live, but in Belgium a company pays roughly half that to the state. That means a developer would earn like 5k before taxes. Still a lot, though
@@randomuser37383 source ? from what i know people in those earning brackets pay less taxes i could be wrong but in general No one pays 50 % in taxes , the most absurd thing ive ever heard is Americans who make over 10 mil a year pay 33 % ( i think comedian bill burr was talking about it he is of course self employed and pays all his taxes himself )
leo wheeler In Canada at $220,000 you are paying 53% of your income to taxes. In America it is highly dependent on where you live but Federal income taxes alone are about 30%. To pay lower you need some funny accounting business to write off expenses to lower the taxable income.
@@duscodick well how much is it at 90 k in Canada, its assumed to be a 90 / 30 split for 10 k a month ( 25% of which goes to taxes) in any event guys look up where the guys who made the game are from and check it out if you want specific details, please show me that Canadian 53% source, on one hand free health care, in the other sounds fishy honestly, even the goddam mafia doesn't take half, unless it's super forgiving on the lower bracket, esp people who make 30 ish k
It all depends if your game is for profit then the minimum cost is $100 + (how much trade marking costs) if you worked for free and did everything yourself and worked full time.
Currently you need 0$ to make a hit indie game..just passion,commitment ,ambition and hard work ..with gaming engines going open source no real budget is needed
Before you watch the video I’m just gonna say to make a game it pretty cheap as far as money goes, it cost no more than what the hardware your making it on costs. What it does cost though is a lot of time, if you wanna make something good it will take at the bare minimum months
They cost nothing if you are willing to learn the different skills needed. Everything you might need to build a game can be found for free in todays market. Some limitations will apply obviously, but you can make a working game title in 1hr with a bit of research and study.
@@MrWoopii many indies I know have a normal day job and work on their games in evenings/weekends. That way they don't risk their financial wellbeing while still being able to follow their passion project to completion. It takes much longer to complete but at least you're still sane and with a roof over your head at the end of it.
Anybody criticising opportunity cost ought to actually try working for a poorly paid job. Seriously. You'll realise it's incredibly relevant. I literally have to use it to establish every aspect of my life. For example, do I get the bus? How long would it take walking there? Would the time I save from getting to work by bus instead of walking be enough to pay for the cost of the bus? If not, then I don't catch the bus. I have to think about things like that all the time - and it's because I do that despite earning less than some of the people I work with, I'm often in a better financial situation than they are (despite in many cases actually having alot more financial responsibilities than they do). Because I'm more careful and consider the opportunity cost in everything I do. It really does make a difference. It's also why when I used to work in the healthcare industry, I'd often refuse to work certain special holidays (I had no choice if I was rota'd in on contract then anyway, but if it was optional overtime? Nah), because the place was too far away to walk, the bus didn't run on those days (at least not at the hours required for the job), and the inflated taxi prices for that day to get to and from work would basically cost me the entire day's wage anyway. Meaning I'd basically be working for nothing. Wasn't as simple as "you're working an extra day so you'll get more money" as some of my privileged bosses would see it. This was an opportunity cost issue too.
Free is a possibility as blender and Unreal Engine 4 are a thing, for those of you who dont know UE4 was created by epic games who makes fortnite and its a free game engine software. Dont know how to code, UE4 has blueprints which is visual scripting, just connect the blocks. Blender is a free open source 3D Modeling/Sculpting/2D Animation/Video FX and Video Editing software all in one...Ur welcome :)
As a developer myself... I was thinking the opposite. The value of a game is what the market makes it. Devs can't get too entitled or they become out of tune with the UX.
@@devilmayclarify666 Commies thinking work = money kek (I know that there is also a living thing in here but 13$/h is slightly above substantial level too) Money = Auctionhouse. If someone has better (or similiar) product for cheaper - it will sell and you wont. Your game may not sell only because you overpriced the game because your calculations about number of copies sold were off - or simply because corporations that both guarantee steady paycheck but also eat all the profits operate based off Expected Value (average) and not at-worst-I-need-to-live principle which means they can be more deciseful with their pricing.
I'm working on games on a zero dollar budget but you'll be able to donate on itch but you won't need to. The game after that is going to cost about 1$. If I make money from that I'll get a small budget. On a bigger budget I'll be able to sell games for more and maybe I'll get a bigger budget.
You've got the right idea. The smaller the budget the higher likelyhood of financial success as the break even point is lower. Unfortunately not every game has the luxury of having such low budgets.
Dont sell it at 1, make it a 1.99 , nowadays ppl might think its a faulty game or incomplete and would rather skip it, espicially if the dev himself doesnt appreciate it
Basically this is telling me that as a Bulgarian i'll never have enough money. Before covid i worked at a large company as a full-time programmer, i made 1000 lev a month (after tax), which comes out to 600$ a month (after tax), and after you consider rent, bills, utility, food, I basically break even.
These numbers are always blown up. You can just start out as a hobbyist (which shouldn't be hard since you are a programmer) and start creating a game. If you only use open source or free software, the only real cost you have to look out for is marketing.
Literally none of these questions make sense in context of indie video games. Because really, most game developers who are indie have secondary incomes, part time jobs, live on money made from their previous games and so on. It makes _literally_ no sense to go full time indie developer for your first game. Unless you have a financial situation that already allows as much. Also, 90% of all indie games make basically no money. And it's mostly because 80% or so is just not good enough or has severe issues getting some attention for sales. As for 112.000 pounds in costs for Cultist Simulator, I think that's a very generous budget for that game. Even when the game is good and looks polished, which is why it sold fair numbers. As for Shovel Knight, no, you do not have to pay tax over the kickstarter donations vaporising most of your budget at all. That's a grave exaggeration of what happens! *A creator can offset the income from Kickstarter with deductible expenses that are related to making the project and accounted for in the same tax year.* For example, you received $1000 and spend $1000 on making the game in the same year, your expenses _should_ fully offset their Kickstarter funding for federal income tax purposes! You also get the option to include nontaxable gift as an option for certain funds raised on kickstarter, which is smart when it comes to sending out T-shirts along with a product or other things you do not make a profit on and aren't the 'product' you sell. This includes the whole $5 support donations that only get you added into a game's credit, without receiving the game itself for example. Those are tax free. Having said that, most people fail to look into local tax law _before_ starting a kickstarter. You should try to take tax into account for pledges that involve the end product you offer (or 'sell' as pre-order really). I recommend you check local state law for whatever applies. For example, in my country I really only pay sales tax for whomever is from my country. I don't have to charge tax for whoever is outside of my country. And on top of that, you only pay tax when it involves a product. Some loopholes exist in how you would have a true donation, instead of what boils down to a pre-order. I *do* have to pay income tax, but everybody does who sells a product. And again, investigate what is allowed for deductible expenses! The 5% cut by Kickstarter itself is also one to take into account by the way. And for some games a Kickstarter campaign just doesn't make sense. Also $300.000 budget for Shovel Knight is _a lot of fucking money_ for making that game. $5000 income for one person per month is somewhat ridiculous. It's like developers treat that money as profit from day one or something. The truth is also that again Shovel Knight is a game people are willing to pay money for. It's like CupHead or Undertale (even though I greatly dislike Undertale's hype for what the game is). The stuff about triple A game companies is best skipped entirely. Nowadays high budget numbers are part of marketing. It's why we got the fake crap about Destiny having a $500 million budget, which clearly is not remotely true. In reality, these companies do not reveal real budget numbers. And they generally do not even reveal sales numbers. They only really reveals this to investors (as that's required by law). And even then it's pretty difficult to really determine if they are being honest. As long as investors make money, you really won't hear them 'complain'. Not to mention the gazillion tax loopholes that exist for the larger developers and publishers anyway. Anyway, my point being... this video is a total waste of time. It's mostly inaccurate. Especially because games like Shovel Knight is a total outlier. It has sold exceptionally well... eventually.
You can makes games with no cost, using Unity free engine and Blender (3D character software).. After saw what Nintendo Switch capable of, I really wanna makes nintendo switch game (fighting game- like Bloody Roar game with console-graphics quality), need a small good solid team.
@@PomboKad That still doesnt make sense. I work as an AI developer at a healthcare company and I make ~$8K per month before taxes, in Florida. These guys are definitely not doing the kind of work Im doing, 10K??? For Shovel Knight??? thats ridiculous. Company even sent me a 24-core PC with a AI-optimized NVidia GPU, thats not a rolling cost, its one time and it still wouldnt be close to 10K even for 1 month, even if you add the business software I use AND the costs to maintain some of our services and systems. Those guys were practically begging to burn money spending 10K per person on a game
I work on two games (FPS + browser game) with my teams - all freelancers I have to pay (7 people). I don't have anything except my rent. All money go to freelancers and projects. One game is 9 years in development, other 6 months. When you are smart, you can do it for fraction of costs with very high quality. I saw only two games in video and the costs are insane. You have to outsource..
I remember trying "Where the water tastes like wine" at AMAZE Berlin 2 years ago. Although the art is fantastic, it felt kinda boring just like the game "Everything" which was also showcased then
In the case of brigador or whatever it's called, I don't think that the dev's response to cost issues on steam makes much sense. yeah they sacrificed a lot to make the game, but why should consumers overpay for a game that's not worth the cost just because the devs had a hard time? if the game isn't worth $20 bucks then I say the devs messed up somewhere
I dunno about brigador aproax, thinking that potential buyers will give a shit about how much it cost to make the game is naive. They talk about the oportunity cost of making a game to users, but users also have the oportunity cost of buying your game insted of for example geting hammered whit friends, buying another game, seeing 2 movies, etc...
What I like to know is why do video games cost the same or more as a digital download than actual disk? It just don't seem like a fair price considering there just virtual copies!
My development cost currently around $1000. At first i only invest on assets. Now, i will only invest on toolkits that will fasten the pipeline and also the knowledge. I believed development cost is nothing compared to marketing cost that far greater than this figure.
You could actually make a video game for free as long as you have skills and a computer, but selling it costs money do to marketing and mass production that is if you want to make it a physical copy. 😂
Honestly these days, you can make a decent game, make a youtube trailer and just market that shit. Helped my friends make the videogame Aguntuk, we basically managed free marketing off of social media. You can check it out but I wouldn't recommend it as the game is made with the target audience being our home city/country
I know, a lot of people believe that game developers earn as much as normal programmers, which isn't true. I also wanted to know where the minimum wage is 72k yearly even before tax.
@@Wylie288 Yup. Just like I don't expect them to give me back 10$ if they sell 100.000 copies (or 15$ if they sell 200.000 copies) they shoudn't expect me to pay 20$ for it because they (project to) sell only 50.000 copies. I fully appriciate his logic but sometimes you can make more money by selling your game cheaper too (by selling more copies) so in fact they may have been right. Additionally you can sell expansion packs that have lower costs and still decent profits (5$ DLC to 10$ game instead of 15$ game etc.). And at the end of the day its still somewhat random (or rather - somewhat speculative - that is in truest way of the of the sense of this word) so market often works based on Expected Value (average income) rather than some kind of low-estaminate calculations.
@@MajkaSrajka Value is value. You make the most money by selling games at their actual value. And they deserve every penny. As would you with any product you sold. And for AAA titles that is well above $60. Lowering will not increase profits. And $60 means lower profits than they deserve. Hence why DLC is cut content. They aren't stupid. You can either be in denial about be a greedy hypocrite. Or you can admit it. But that won't change what you are.
@@Wylie288 "Value is value. You make the most money by selling games at their actual value." Just because Triple A titles like to overproduce and overpay doesn't mean the cost of production is their value. You clearly understand nothing about how selling products work. To properly price something, you need far more than what it cost to produce. If I produce a widget at $1 and sell it at $5, but all the other similar widgets are sold at $20, no one will buy my widget because it will be viewed as cheap garbage, regardless of actual quality. The customer decides the value of products not the seller.
Conservative 10 k per month? Are you serious? I get a little more than that per year as a 3d modeller in Russia. That's insane dude. You can live on 3k easy around where Yacht club games are situated
Why did the first developers shown have to pay for their own labor? Where would that money even go? Last time I checked you can create in engines for free. Unless I just don't know enough about the industry? Feedback please.
A developer that makes 10k (or even 5k) a month ? That is stretching it big time. You could hire atleast 2x pro devs working remotely. I understand on-site is more effective, and expensive, but it definitely isn't a requisite, especially for an indie game.
I think that one of the main issues went is talked about game dev around the price is some simple concepts that everybody seems to miss: Among the first; "production cost shouldnt be translated to the product directly", let me explain a bit better. People doesnt care how much something cost making, they care about how much they will have to pay for the final product, meaning that the value of the final product itself is what determines its price. If you went heavily overboard (and this is streching it way far for examples sake) and spent nearly half a million creating a runner 2D game that is pretty much like the dino game for chrome when you dont have internet, people wont buy it for $60 or so, at best $1 as a mobile phone maybe. So, the price shouldnt be made based on the cost of production, it has to be focused around the value it provides and then manage the budget around it, or get the best budget possible and price it "fairly" (in between quotes as we all know fair is pretty subjective). If we were to take the brigador game just as it was day one and was priced at $60, NOONE would have buy it, BUT is important to remember that the cheaper it is, the easier it is for people to see they are getting more value out of the cost of buy it and that translates to more sales, and with more sales that is more people that can potentially like the game and then tell them about their peers, and that can mean sales were there wouldnt be any. I get is a lot to juggle and is a pretty damm hard process, but i think it should be spoken about it. As also a bit of an extra benefit of pricing it a bit lower (or whatever seems to be fair for the customers) is that more people that would otherwise be on the fence with the "original" price would say; "alright fuck it, lets at least give it a shot", as games are really some weird thing to value, you never know if you will get the value you expect out of it until you are nearing the end or seen most of it, so yeah, for the buyer side is also a bit of a gamble into trusting that what you see will be worth it
So this is an odd topic most indies seem to come with these way out numbers saying thinking it cost me this much to make this game. But realistically you can't charge youre self for the million dollars. and can't set a price on your time before a project is released. What if no one cares for it it can be wishlists 5000 times but if only 50 people show to buy then to them youre time is not worth much if you set a price for project then release it then realistically the take home amount after taxes and other deduction divie by time spent give you a more accurate view of your times value You just can't say I commented on a video and I make $10,000.00 per comment
@ask gamedev I'm actually pretty young and just about to start my 7th grade year and I already have my eyes set on becoming a game designer though I have no experience or idea on how it works I would love to start learning how to take steps as a game designer
Go Dot is free. There are a few tutorials on youtube for learning about it. I believe coding for kids uploaded one called "your first game" or something like that. Difficult to look for while on mobile app but I believe you'll be able to find it.
This two channels are great for gamedesign: ua-cam.com/channels/qJ-Xo29CKyLTjn6z2XwYAw.html ua-cam.com/channels/Y3A_5R_m3PXCn5XDhvBBsg.html What engine to use - it really doesn't matter to be honest. Try Godot 3. Or you may try Unity 2019. Gamemaker Studio 2 is good too.
![6 Real Examples of Indie Game Sales Numbers [2021]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O0UDK0WLPck/mqdefault.jpg)
![6 Real Examples of Indie Game Sales Numbers [2021]](/img/tr.png)
Want to see more video game production budgets? Check out our video where we compare indie and AAA game production budgets: ua-cam.com/video/2t3DNmvXAIc/v-deo.html
R u a developer?
U can build game for me?
I want to see how to promote game
F--k your Ai voice video
"So far I have made $0 from the game. That may look like a high number, but consider that it took four years to make - that works out to approximately $0/year."
lmao i'm dead
Timestamp? :D
@@watchermagic5325 8:39
@@wavemode69 Still 0$ ?
It's awesome that he has a sense of humor about it
i think now sold more then 20k copies wich is 400k
Stardew valley was made by a college kid who had a hard time finding work. Millions of copies sold
Dust was made by one guy too until voice acting came along, I wish we had numbers for that.
Luck
You have to do it with passion, and keep standing up and trying again if you fall. Falling down are the experiences you need in order to improve.
This isn't wholesome, this is a capitalism dystopian happening
He got lucky with a publisher who liked his game and gave their full support to him. He catered to a wide and supportive game genre audience. And for all of his time working he was mostly alone, struggling with impostor syndrome and relying on his girlfriend to fund his game development efforts. It's definitely a grim fantasy with a happy ending, still a cautionary tale if I've ever heard of one.
Wow. Indie game design sounds like a challenge. I'll take it
you might regret it though
@@mansoor6678
I'm open to any challenge that comes my way
EJ Nyakoon Noob
David Lad Learn what noob is.. Saying something is hard and he might regret it or saying he is a beginner at this isn’t rude
I believe you can do this. Good luck
This is probably one of the most important videos you have done, as it can easily be shock to find out how much making a game can cost you.
...and it's still talking about nothing but outliers. The video is in no way very accurate in its presentation. Hugely inflated numbers and a way too optimistic view on things. Not to mention how $300.000+ budgets aren't exactly 'indie game' grade budgets. And yes, I'm well aware making games isn't cheap. Thing is, most indies invest their own time and value in them, at a fraction of triple A budgets. Indie devs are not 'small triple A devs'. Heck most truly successful indie devs have been releasing small games for years, at fairly moderate profits. The 'idiots' wasting their money on fast cars generally go bankrupt and fail longterm, despite any hit games.
11:09 The devs' reply is hilarious!
Fight world war 1
The audacity to say "Let's dive right in" after burning 75 seconds on an 'intro' comprised of reiterating that you were ABOUT to tell us something lmao
They even took the time to animate text for it.
On top of the fact that we already knew that channel name, and title of the video.
we are lucky he puts the annoying "subscribe, youtube deleted 100 subscribers" at the beginning where you can just preemptively skip it.
other youtubers put the nagging somewhere in the middle, different locations. and its cancer. 10 minute video and half of it is people nagging you to subscribe even when you are subscribed, i just gave and i dont subscribe to anyone anymore.
@@SpenserRoger don't cut yourself with that edge
This vid: you need money to make a game
Some random 0 budget dev: hold my beer
darn it ,my plan for making a game with 2 $ is a little inaccurate.
wait i was planning on making a game with 0$
@@youneskasdi you can have my 2$ now .can buy some paper and write your proposal.
you can make games with 0 budget, but you need to be very skilled, it will take many years and you can use only "open sorce" software and ressorces, but make sure there are no hidden license costs :D Many low budget developer choose to distribute their software/games for free on a non comercial basis, like this they can avoid any taxes and license costs. they live of their youtube channel and content creator support websites like patreon :3
@@eduuklee9453 how reliable is that?
@@kristijanoros7208 in this times probably more save than most other jobs :0
This is a really insightful video, with excellent production value! And thank you for featuring Must Dash Amigos as Community Member of the Week - really awesome of you :)
It's our pleasure! We love local multiplayer games.
It's important to remember that a multi million dollar game can fail financially (see "Duke Nukem Forever" and "Superman" for the N64 for example), while 50,000$ indi games can make millions (see "Undertale" and "Minecraft"). So to all indies out there (like me) that don't have this 6 - 7 digit budget - don't be discouraged, people were able to do alot with 5 digit budegts as well.
Small Indie games dont really cost anything except time and effort you are willing to put into, and the game would look greater the more time and effort you put into, no need for any sort of budget unless you are too lazy to make your own art or search for your own sounds/musics and actually have to pay someone else to make them for you
Great video! Not only the financial costs but the costs of all the hidden sacrifices a dev has to make. It's even more for a solo indiedev such as me. It's also examples of why a successful crowd funding campaign can be critical. Sadly I haven't heard of any of these games other then Destiny.
Brigador's argument on Steam about why their game costs 20 dollars is is wrong, and the gamers critizing them are right, let me explain. Imagine that I decide out of my own volition to cook a great donut, it takes me a month to create it and then I decide to charge 2,000 dollars for it. People interested are willing to pay me 2 dollars, maybe 4, but I argue them that they should pay 2,000 dollars since it took me 1 month to make it. See how it doesn't make much sense? Brigador assumes their resulting product value is directly proportional to the time they spent producing it, but unfortunately this is not true. It's just the nature of creative endeavors that things are not that straightforward.
An important thing on this matter is that they decided to create their engine, which is a questionable decision given how good commercial engines are. That decision obviously cost them a lot of time and money, and if we assume it was indeed the wrong decision then why do the buyers have to carry the burden of it? The bottom line is your product costs what is costs based on market value and what people are willing to pay for it, nothing more.
I'm not hating on Brigador though, as an entrepreneur myself I'm just trying to bring some light to the matter.
Thanks for watching! For More Ask Gamedev, watch: *How to Plan Your Game Development Project* ua-cam.com/video/a7vZFiFLw-w/v-deo.html
@ask gamedev I'm actually pretty young and just about to start my 7th grade year and I already have my eyes set on becoming a game designer though I have no experience or idea on how it works I would love to start learning how to take steps as a game designer
Otaku Gurl I would recommend taking some classes in your spare time. Do you want to do the art and visuals of game design, or the code and mechanics?
Where are the discord link?
@@pedrobrasil892 Here's the invite link: discord.gg/RuhjHzZ
@@pedrobrasil892 discord.gg/UWvA6cE
This is why I paused making games alone.
The balance of Cost / Quality will always be the hard equation,
and more like gambling for Indie to bet on their games.
Another great video as always. Now I know how much it cost to make a game. Will keep working on it as paycheck doesn't mean everything. :)
Tip from an artist to those planning on making games. STOP saying this "oh that is too expensive I can find someone else who can do it for less" That is something that irritates me from indie game devs, of course not all but I've had many conversations with that phrase included. If you can find someone that will do your art for less don't waste other people's time
If you're game dev studio and having issues with people complaining about your price DON'T logically explain to people why the game is worth that much but instead you should improve your marketing and sales.
Think of it like going upto someone you're attracted to and saying you should go out with me because I'll put a lot of effort into the relationship without there being any "spark"
Marketing is only good up to a certain point and even then it’s not guaranteed to work (while costing a pretty penny). There’s free ways to advertise your game, it only goes so far if your luck is bad. The main problem with video games is that you can’t really adjust your game price since the competition sales their games at low prices already. ‘’Unique’’ or ‘’Prenium’’ products can be sold way higher and be justified because nothing like it exists, but it doesn’t work that way with games. Games are one of the most unique products out there but they don’t have that luxury. If your sales are low, you can’t make up for it by raising the price, your sales and reviews will tank. Also, it’s kinda established in the community of gamers as a standart that indie games don’t go often beyond 20$ and triple A titles can go from 80$ or 110$ sometimes.
I don't think I want to know how much it has cost me to make Metal Heads, the game isn't for sale yet, but I imagine that it would be a hell of a lot. I would have a stab in the dark and say about $130k over 2 years, probably around $40k in the last 4 months.
Just the lead up to PAX Australia this year, I have been working around 26 hours a week in my day job, some weeks 39 hours, and any days off, I spend about 8-12 hours on the game in preparation.
My life right now, consists of my day job and game dev, I'm also in a relationship, and working this much puts a lot of strain on that relationship, it's also very difficult to maintain my health in this period of time, and my body and mind are suffering as a result, and i'm typically a fit and healthy person with a positive outlook, so the cost is far more than just monetary.
In the long run though, I do this, because I love it, it is my passion, I love creating, and I love sharing, and ultimately, it is my way out of the endless rut that I've seen so many people get stuck in. Not many people have that opportunity, I do (you do too!), and I'm not going to waste it, even if it is one giant gamble.
Don't let anything put you off chasing after that dream, go for it, and give it everything you've got.
Congrats on your progress to date! Inspiring story for sure
Yup. Inspired me
@Mitch Unreal Engine 4 :) almost zero programming done, Ive just been using their visual scripting system called Blueprint.
Wow.. being in the *exact* same spot for a few years now, it was so comforting to read this.. Specially resonating with the piece about how even at the expense of your own health (both physical and mental sometimes) you just don't quit.. that's raw passion right there.. and when you combine that with the fact that it's a gamble that could possibly get you financial freedom, it's just so worth pursuing! Just take care, and make sure you don't mentally burn yourself!
I fucking love party games and I wish there were more releases on ps4 (afaik there aren't). Let me know if you manage to release it there please
The angle you show the articles at looks like VR. I like it
I have no money, don't know how to code, and can't draw for shit.... But damnit if I'm not going to learn how to make my first game. If it's a passion you have, even if you're broke AF, you can still do it. For those in the same boat; Welcome, and keep it up! You'll do awesome!
Marienexify same lmao, i’m watching so many tutorials..
This was fascinating, one of the best videos you've done!
Thats great feedback. We're hoping to make this a series so stay tuned for more.
Very true story. Its easy to overlook the value of time. $12.50/hr is less than minimum wage in Seattle.
hm... I would work for this amount of money ;) (Poland)
@@RafaFiedoMusic I would work for minimum wage of germany (8 euro) if I would be living in Thailand or anywhere, where I could live for 100 euros a months.
Thing is in the US living is so freaking expensive.
Rafal Basker rent in Denver, CO is $1500/month. Game Dev alone isn’t a sustainable income, so I own a construction company too. I work 12-16 hrs/day 6-7 days a week between game dev and construction, but it’s worth it to be an entrepreneur.
Can I have qa testing projects , I will be doing from India
@@fresch4395 "Thing is in the US living is so freaking expensive.
"
You just told it to the European lol
(Well, Poland is cheap but Europe has more expensive consumer goods than US / higher taxes, housing is biggest variable).
Then move to Thailand and make your indie game from Thailand lol, noone is saying no to that.
@
Skjöld Game Studio
>Move to the super-expensive megacity that has billion dollars in housing markets where politics&property market make love to each other to do project you can do from your mother basement.
Imagine being one of the people working on Shovel Knight and refusing the offer to work for free and walking only to find it was a bad mistake later on. I like the breakdown of the numbers for the card based game. Helps you work things out
That argument from the Brigador dev in the steam forum is good for an employee to boss dialogue, not a company to consumer dialogue. Like it or not the consumer ultimately decides the subjective value of the game for what the game itself is, not the time that went into it. If the game's price is higher than that, they won't buy it. Look at Duke Nukem, the amount of time spent on it does not reflect its value.
What the dev is actually arguing without realizing it is his wages. Thats what it means to get paid by an employer, you work a certain amount of hours doing whatever it is and that creates value. So the amount you get paid is what you're valued at by your employer. That most certainly is not intrinsically tied to the product value.
Super interesting. Thanks so much for this insight!
First things first, great video!
No offense to Stellar Jockeys but but players don't care how hard we work as devs or what we sacrifice in our personal lives to ship a game. What matters to them is the enjoyment value, as it should be.
True, it doesnt matter if the chef missed his son's birthday to make the food you are eating, it doesnt matter if he wasnt in the mood to cook ,you paid for that food and its the chef's responsibility to respect the value of your money
WarWulf778 “As it should be” As a game dev: fuck no. What the hell are you on about? The human cost for a video game is not worth it. That’s just running a shit company.
Each member of that shovel knight team taking 10k a month when you're on a tight budget is lunacy
I would kill for 10k a month for room for more.
10 k is all expenses required for 1 employee/month. But yes, seems a lot.
It's annoying that the Devs of Brigador stated their game is $20 dollars because of the time they put into it.
That's not how any of this works. A game is only worth what people will pay for it. that's the end.
This was more discouraging to me than encouraging. It costs too much to make a game and I simply don’t have the money, even though I do have the drive to continue learning unity.
There a lot of job with unity, so it's always good
"start that passion project you've been pining to pick up"
Always alliterate, for added appeal!
You know a next video you guys should make is about Game Fees and Taxes thanks.
@Leocesar3D In reality the net worth can be lower than "Gross revenue / 2". Example, my country have no tax treaty will US. Therefore If I sell my game on Steam. I only get 40% of the gross as Steam take 30% and the US government tax another 30%. On top of that I may have to pay tax to my own country.
My dream is to make best mmorpg with so much action and no pay to win
That arguing about how much a game would cost coming from gamers are completely disgusting, based on actual data from developers. On consumers perspectives, they might have a point, but generally speaking, game consumers know nothing about how much a game actually costs at all. Knowledge is indeed power tho.
The thing is, consumers have no need to know how mush it costs, they will judge based on the entertainment they can get of a game, then the playtime they can keep themselves invested and then the graphical finishes, So, instead of expecting them to know is more realistic to make a budget and expected earnings based on those factors
"That arguing about how much a game would cost coming from gamers are completely disgusting"
You can't really blame them. Production costs (for anything) are generally kept hidden or grossly exaggerated. Even throughout this entire video, there were no hard, exact numbers on anything. It was all rough estimates.
Then you have to add in all the costs that regular employees, let alone customers, never know about. Biggest one being all the government fees and taxes for all sorts of things.
Most people have only ever received a paycheck or welfare. They will never know the costs of operating a business.
However, how much it costs to produce something doesn't matter to the consumer. They only thing that matters to a consumer is: what is the cost vs value of the product.
One of your best videos, thank you!
Appreciate your feedback! There is more to come on this topic!
7:00 even the narrator had to pause for a second
Some of these numbers surprise me, It's wild how much Platform Fees and Taxes take out of a Game's Revenue... a little demotivating, but I guess it just inspires me to want to make a great game to sell more copies to offset it.
I've been working on a game every Saturday for the past 3 years. Progress is slow, obviously. But at least it hasn't cost anything. Even if I end up making £1, I've still landed me some profit. Kerching.
You’re forgetting the opportunity cost. If each mount has 3 weeks minimum than there are 36 Saturdays in a year. So while you have been spending 108 days developing that game, couldn’t you have done something a bit more profitable (that’s why i stick to web development. Sure if you prefer freelancing there isn’t going to be much cash at first, but if you get a good reputation, it can get reasonably better. Best part is that most people/companies want more or less the same thing, so you’ll just copy past the same line of code, change the visuals, colors and little bit of functionality and you’re done).
stonks
Are you doing it alone and in which engine and which language?
@@kalakaritasansar9636
C++, it's my own engine.
I did try and use Unity engine but I didn't like the GC. I needed better memory control. Looking at how much Unity has progressed over the past three years, I wish I had stuck with it. I would have had five times as much work done on the actual game.
@@Shenanigans07 umm great! Can I learn C# and make games only with it in unity?
If you make every asset of your future game yourself, it can only cost time.
as a student who makes games alone all my games have costed me less than $300 to produce and each one has paid for itself and then some - granted, my games might be shit though.. 👀
You need to factor in your work hours. If you do, the actual cost will be much higher. Your time is limited and valuable.
@@Minya40 you must have me confused for someone who's actually worth something
*cries*
yeah and your dad and mom fed you all the time - very cheap :D
@@Minya40 i remember working for like 1 year and getting a payday 2 key, i thought it was worth cause i never got paid before and didnt think time was valuable
thanks for pointing out bigador. seems like a lot of fun tbh.
It's a great game! We also had a chance to interview the Brigador devs at PAX. That video will be coming soon to the channel.
Am I out of touch or is 10 grand a month not exactly a "Conservative number" regardless of where you live.
Seriously, what small time indie developer makes $120K a year during development?! WTF Thats almost a quarter million for a two year job...what kind of ridiculous estimate is that
Thats the cost for hiring the developer (a company also pays taxes on what they give you. And you pay taxes on what you receive) and not what the developer receives. Dont know where you live, but in Belgium a company pays roughly half that to the state. That means a developer would earn like 5k before taxes. Still a lot, though
@@randomuser37383 source ? from what i know people in those earning brackets pay less taxes i could be wrong but in general No one pays 50 % in taxes , the most absurd thing ive ever heard is Americans who make over 10 mil a year pay 33 % ( i think comedian bill burr was talking about it he is of course self employed and pays all his taxes himself )
leo wheeler In Canada at $220,000 you are paying 53% of your income to taxes. In America it is highly dependent on where you live but Federal income taxes alone are about 30%. To pay lower you need some funny accounting business to write off expenses to lower the taxable income.
@@duscodick well how much is it at 90 k in Canada, its assumed to be a 90 / 30 split for 10 k a month ( 25% of which goes to taxes) in any event guys look up where the guys who made the game are from and check it out if you want specific details, please show me that Canadian 53% source, on one hand free health care, in the other sounds fishy honestly, even the goddam mafia doesn't take half, unless it's super forgiving on the lower bracket, esp people who make 30 ish k
It all depends if your game is for profit then the minimum cost is $100 + (how much trade marking costs) if you worked for free and did everything yourself and worked full time.
So what is the money actually used for?
Currently you need 0$ to make a hit indie game..just passion,commitment ,ambition and hard work ..with gaming engines going open source no real budget is needed
Lots of respect for ”Shovel night “ . Even NES cart copy’s out there made. Too cool
you are doing so well guys!
aa türk
nasıl gidiyor oyun işin
yapıyon mu bişi
aşada yorumum var bepensene ya
video isteği yazdım,biraz bak bulursun
Depends for some it will be cost of daily supply of ramen for few weeks and for some quite a huge amount of money
guess i'll have a small job to keep me up during the dev of my 1st game
I am making a game for free on Unity , I am doing everything.
The music, animation, idea and mechanisms, everything is done by me on Unity free
doing everything by yourself can is challenge, set still, you'll need to spend money on publishing (and marketing?), gl
Before you watch the video I’m just gonna say to make a game it pretty cheap as far as money goes, it cost no more than what the hardware your making it on costs. What it does cost though is a lot of time, if you wanna make something good it will take at the bare minimum months
They cost nothing if you are willing to learn the different skills needed. Everything you might need to build a game can be found for free in todays market. Some limitations will apply obviously, but you can make a working game title in 1hr with a bit of research and study.
Very interesting video. I wonder how much it costs to make a hyper-casual mobile game.
Near to nothing if you know what youre doing
Started making indie game, went broke. Need to find a job now.
how are you now?
How’s it going now
@@dylanr4854 doing odd jobs here and there, but nothing in game development.
@@MrWoopii many indies I know have a normal day job and work on their games in evenings/weekends. That way they don't risk their financial wellbeing while still being able to follow their passion project to completion. It takes much longer to complete but at least you're still sane and with a roof over your head at the end of it.
Anybody criticising opportunity cost ought to actually try working for a poorly paid job. Seriously. You'll realise it's incredibly relevant.
I literally have to use it to establish every aspect of my life. For example, do I get the bus? How long would it take walking there? Would the time I save from getting to work by bus instead of walking be enough to pay for the cost of the bus? If not, then I don't catch the bus. I have to think about things like that all the time - and it's because I do that despite earning less than some of the people I work with, I'm often in a better financial situation than they are (despite in many cases actually having alot more financial responsibilities than they do). Because I'm more careful and consider the opportunity cost in everything I do. It really does make a difference.
It's also why when I used to work in the healthcare industry, I'd often refuse to work certain special holidays (I had no choice if I was rota'd in on contract then anyway, but if it was optional overtime? Nah), because the place was too far away to walk, the bus didn't run on those days (at least not at the hours required for the job), and the inflated taxi prices for that day to get to and from work would basically cost me the entire day's wage anyway. Meaning I'd basically be working for nothing. Wasn't as simple as "you're working an extra day so you'll get more money" as some of my privileged bosses would see it. This was an opportunity cost issue too.
Free is a possibility as blender and Unreal Engine 4 are a thing, for those of you who dont know UE4 was created by epic games who makes fortnite and its a free game engine software. Dont know how to code, UE4 has blueprints which is visual scripting, just connect the blocks. Blender is a free open source 3D Modeling/Sculpting/2D Animation/Video FX and Video Editing software all in one...Ur welcome :)
5 years working on a single game. I can barely imagine it.
Go insane, maybe broke and a slight chance of success. Sounds great!
i doubt that
Ain't nothing more sure than a gamer who doesn't gamedev undervaluing an indie game.
As a developer myself... I was thinking the opposite. The value of a game is what the market makes it. Devs can't get too entitled or they become out of tune with the UX.
@@devilmayclarify666 Commies thinking work = money kek
(I know that there is also a living thing in here but 13$/h is slightly above substantial level too)
Money = Auctionhouse. If someone has better (or similiar) product for cheaper - it will sell and you wont. Your game may not sell only because you overpriced the game because your calculations about number of copies sold were off - or simply because corporations that both guarantee steady paycheck but also eat all the profits operate based off Expected Value (average) and not at-worst-I-need-to-live principle which means they can be more deciseful with their pricing.
Answer from an actual indie dev: As low as $0 and ¢0
AngelinaJamie [GD] Thank you.
that's a lucky one. It can be worse, you could find yourself in debt.
There is a finnish racing game that is complex af.
It is developed by 1 dev and so far as i know, the budget wasn't too big.
I'm working on games on a zero dollar budget but you'll be able to donate on itch but you won't need to. The game after that is going to cost about 1$. If I make money from that I'll get a small budget. On a bigger budget I'll be able to sell games for more and maybe I'll get a bigger budget.
You've got the right idea. The smaller the budget the higher likelyhood of financial success as the break even point is lower. Unfortunately not every game has the luxury of having such low budgets.
Dont sell it at 1, make it a 1.99 , nowadays ppl might think its a faulty game or incomplete and would rather skip it, espicially if the dev himself doesnt appreciate it
@@bongobliss5795 ok
Shovel knight guys, asking for $10,000 a month is absolutely egregious. You’re on Kickstarter, not working for a AAA studio.
ten grand a month isn't just salary. it includes all the overhead of each employee too.
@@perfectionbox Overhead like what?
Danneels Cedric I’ll take your word on it
Basically this is telling me that as a Bulgarian i'll never have enough money. Before covid i worked at a large company as a full-time programmer, i made 1000 lev a month (after tax), which comes out to 600$ a month (after tax), and after you consider rent, bills, utility, food, I basically break even.
These numbers are always blown up. You can just start out as a hobbyist (which shouldn't be hard since you are a programmer) and start creating a game. If you only use open source or free software, the only real cost you have to look out for is marketing.
how to make a game design document?
I liked the video. I have subscribed. I reserve the right to heckle.
One hundred one.
One hundred two.
And so on.
There is no and.
Yikes! Maybe I should start off making text-based adventures.
@David Lad Thank you. Though I'm working on other things I soon might begin on a small game or two.
ChoiceOfGames
Look it up. It lets the reader become part of the story.
@@ZAGGNUT1 Hmmm. Looks interesting.
they require a high quality 2D art, which costs a lot
me who’s making small games with no budget but stolen code
10k $ per staff ? how ?
Literally none of these questions make sense in context of indie video games. Because really, most game developers who are indie have secondary incomes, part time jobs, live on money made from their previous games and so on. It makes _literally_ no sense to go full time indie developer for your first game. Unless you have a financial situation that already allows as much. Also, 90% of all indie games make basically no money. And it's mostly because 80% or so is just not good enough or has severe issues getting some attention for sales. As for 112.000 pounds in costs for Cultist Simulator, I think that's a very generous budget for that game. Even when the game is good and looks polished, which is why it sold fair numbers. As for Shovel Knight, no, you do not have to pay tax over the kickstarter donations vaporising most of your budget at all. That's a grave exaggeration of what happens! *A creator can offset the income from Kickstarter with deductible expenses that are related to making the project and accounted for in the same tax year.* For example, you received $1000 and spend $1000 on making the game in the same year, your expenses _should_ fully offset their Kickstarter funding for federal income tax purposes! You also get the option to include nontaxable gift as an option for certain funds raised on kickstarter, which is smart when it comes to sending out T-shirts along with a product or other things you do not make a profit on and aren't the 'product' you sell. This includes the whole $5 support donations that only get you added into a game's credit, without receiving the game itself for example. Those are tax free. Having said that, most people fail to look into local tax law _before_ starting a kickstarter.
You should try to take tax into account for pledges that involve the end product you offer (or 'sell' as pre-order really). I recommend you check local state law for whatever applies. For example, in my country I really only pay sales tax for whomever is from my country. I don't have to charge tax for whoever is outside of my country. And on top of that, you only pay tax when it involves a product. Some loopholes exist in how you would have a true donation, instead of what boils down to a pre-order. I *do* have to pay income tax, but everybody does who sells a product. And again, investigate what is allowed for deductible expenses! The 5% cut by Kickstarter itself is also one to take into account by the way. And for some games a Kickstarter campaign just doesn't make sense. Also $300.000 budget for Shovel Knight is _a lot of fucking money_ for making that game. $5000 income for one person per month is somewhat ridiculous. It's like developers treat that money as profit from day one or something. The truth is also that again Shovel Knight is a game people are willing to pay money for. It's like CupHead or Undertale (even though I greatly dislike Undertale's hype for what the game is). The stuff about triple A game companies is best skipped entirely. Nowadays high budget numbers are part of marketing. It's why we got the fake crap about Destiny having a $500 million budget, which clearly is not remotely true. In reality, these companies do not reveal real budget numbers. And they generally do not even reveal sales numbers. They only really reveals this to investors (as that's required by law). And even then it's pretty difficult to really determine if they are being honest. As long as investors make money, you really won't hear them 'complain'. Not to mention the gazillion tax loopholes that exist for the larger developers and publishers anyway. Anyway, my point being... this video is a total waste of time. It's mostly inaccurate. Especially because games like Shovel Knight is a total outlier. It has sold exceptionally well... eventually.
Once again I stand corrected, I lready talked to my nephew's and nieces about game cost, way before you even made this video.
Fist time hearing of where the water tastes like wine. Looks cool.
You can makes games with no cost, using Unity free engine and Blender (3D character software).. After saw what Nintendo Switch capable of, I really wanna makes nintendo switch game (fighting game- like Bloody Roar game with console-graphics quality), need a small good solid team.
Conservatice 10k person/month? What? Average Game Programmer pay is 90k a year, well below 120k...
You need to add taxes, software costs, computer, etc.
10k per month is not only for wages, is the cost per person to produce a game.
@@PomboKad That still doesnt make sense. I work as an AI developer at a healthcare company and I make ~$8K per month before taxes, in Florida. These guys are definitely not doing the kind of work Im doing, 10K??? For Shovel Knight??? thats ridiculous. Company even sent me a 24-core PC with a AI-optimized NVidia GPU, thats not a rolling cost, its one time and it still wouldnt be close to 10K even for 1 month, even if you add the business software I use AND the costs to maintain some of our services and systems.
Those guys were practically begging to burn money spending 10K per person on a game
I work on two games (FPS + browser game) with my teams - all freelancers I have to pay (7 people). I don't have anything except my rent. All money go to freelancers and projects. One game is 9 years in development, other 6 months. When you are smart, you can do it for fraction of costs with very high quality. I saw only two games in video and the costs are insane. You have to outsource..
What's ur situation now? I mean, how is your game doing?
Let's make a indie game, oh yeah first thing, I demand 5000€ / month.
Making indie game is like a bet. If you miss, all the investment and time are gone.
Cut gross revenue by about 60% and you got the net after cuts and taxes (if you use steam as a main selling platform).
I remember trying "Where the water tastes like wine" at AMAZE Berlin 2 years ago. Although the art is fantastic, it felt kinda boring just like the game "Everything" which was also showcased then
In the case of brigador or whatever it's called, I don't think that the dev's response to cost issues on steam makes much sense. yeah they sacrificed a lot to make the game, but why should consumers overpay for a game that's not worth the cost just because the devs had a hard time? if the game isn't worth $20 bucks then I say the devs messed up somewhere
I dunno about brigador aproax, thinking that potential buyers will give a shit about how much it cost to make the game is naive. They talk about the oportunity cost of making a game to users, but users also have the oportunity cost of buying your game insted of for example geting hammered whit friends, buying another game, seeing 2 movies, etc...
What I like to know is why do video games cost the same or more as a digital download than actual disk? It just don't seem like a fair price considering there just virtual copies!
Ask the reseller that pressure the platform holder saying, we wont sell your hardware.
great video keep up the fantastic work
My development cost currently around $1000. At first i only invest on assets. Now, i will only invest on toolkits that will fasten the pipeline and also the knowledge. I believed development cost is nothing compared to marketing cost that far greater than this figure.
You could actually make a video game for free as long as you have skills and a computer, but selling it costs money do to marketing and mass production that is if you want to make it a physical copy. 😂
Honestly these days, you can make a decent game, make a youtube trailer and just market that shit.
Helped my friends make the videogame Aguntuk, we basically managed free marketing off of social media.
You can check it out but I wouldn't recommend it as the game is made with the target audience being our home city/country
Even if you don’t pay yourself a wage, the value of your skills per hour spent developing the game is an added expense.
Where the Water Tastes Like Wine ‘suffered from a host of issues’ including being called *fucking Where the Water Tastes Like Wine*
now try and guess the budget for flappy bird
1 Dollar 50, for that Starbucks cup he drank during the entire making of that game.
10grand a month per person? What's? That's insane money. Even with costs of covering their benefits that's mental. Most people are on far far less.
I know, a lot of people believe that game developers earn as much as normal programmers, which isn't true. I also wanted to know where the minimum wage is 72k yearly even before tax.
That's not just salary. The cost of an employee is around twice their salary. The employer needs to pay for medical insurance, etc etc.
That's why 20 buck for an indie game is not high
Cost does not play into price. Value is supply and demand. Cost simply determines profit margin.
@@Wylie288
Yup. Just like I don't expect them to give me back 10$ if they sell 100.000 copies (or 15$ if they sell 200.000 copies) they shoudn't expect me to pay 20$ for it because they (project to) sell only 50.000 copies.
I fully appriciate his logic but sometimes you can make more money by selling your game cheaper too (by selling more copies) so in fact they may have been right. Additionally you can sell expansion packs that have lower costs and still decent profits (5$ DLC to 10$ game instead of 15$ game etc.). And at the end of the day its still somewhat random (or rather - somewhat speculative - that is in truest way of the of the sense of this word) so market often works based on Expected Value (average income) rather than some kind of low-estaminate calculations.
@@MajkaSrajka Value is value. You make the most money by selling games at their actual value. And they deserve every penny. As would you with any product you sold.
And for AAA titles that is well above $60. Lowering will not increase profits. And $60 means lower profits than they deserve. Hence why DLC is cut content. They aren't stupid.
You can either be in denial about be a greedy hypocrite. Or you can admit it. But that won't change what you are.
@@Wylie288 "Value is value. You make the most money by selling games at their actual value."
Just because Triple A titles like to overproduce and overpay doesn't mean the cost of production is their value.
You clearly understand nothing about how selling products work. To properly price something, you need far more than what it cost to produce.
If I produce a widget at $1 and sell it at $5, but all the other similar widgets are sold at $20, no one will buy my widget because it will be viewed as cheap garbage, regardless of actual quality.
The customer decides the value of products not the seller.
@@masterlinktm Learn to read. Im the one that taught you production cost isn't value jackass.
Conservative 10 k per month? Are you serious? I get a little more than that per year as a 3d modeller in Russia. That's insane dude. You can live on 3k easy around where Yacht club games are situated
NA - they gotta live in hollywood and spend 2+k$/month on their appartment when they work on indie game that could be done from their mom basement.
Zun: Yare Yare Daze.
Why did the first developers shown have to pay for their own labor? Where would that money even go? Last time I checked you can create in engines for free. Unless I just don't know enough about the industry? Feedback please.
A developer that makes 10k (or even 5k) a month ? That is stretching it big time. You could hire atleast 2x pro devs working remotely. I understand on-site is more effective, and expensive, but it definitely isn't a requisite, especially for an indie game.
I think that one of the main issues went is talked about game dev around the price is some simple concepts that everybody seems to miss:
Among the first; "production cost shouldnt be translated to the product directly", let me explain a bit better. People doesnt care how much something cost making, they care about how much they will have to pay for the final product, meaning that the value of the final product itself is what determines its price. If you went heavily overboard (and this is streching it way far for examples sake) and spent nearly half a million creating a runner 2D game that is pretty much like the dino game for chrome when you dont have internet, people wont buy it for $60 or so, at best $1 as a mobile phone maybe. So, the price shouldnt be made based on the cost of production, it has to be focused around the value it provides and then manage the budget around it, or get the best budget possible and price it "fairly" (in between quotes as we all know fair is pretty subjective). If we were to take the brigador game just as it was day one and was priced at $60, NOONE would have buy it, BUT is important to remember that the cheaper it is, the easier it is for people to see they are getting more value out of the cost of buy it and that translates to more sales, and with more sales that is more people that can potentially like the game and then tell them about their peers, and that can mean sales were there wouldnt be any. I get is a lot to juggle and is a pretty damm hard process, but i think it should be spoken about it. As also a bit of an extra benefit of pricing it a bit lower (or whatever seems to be fair for the customers) is that more people that would otherwise be on the fence with the "original" price would say; "alright fuck it, lets at least give it a shot", as games are really some weird thing to value, you never know if you will get the value you expect out of it until you are nearing the end or seen most of it, so yeah, for the buyer side is also a bit of a gamble into trusting that what you see will be worth it
So this is an odd topic most indies seem to come with these way out numbers saying thinking it cost me this much to make this game. But realistically you can't charge youre self for the million dollars. and can't set a price on your time before a project is released. What if no one cares for it it can be wishlists 5000 times but if only 50 people show to buy then to them youre time is not worth much
if you set a price for project then release it then realistically the take home amount after taxes and other deduction divie by time spent give you a more accurate view of your times value
You just can't say I commented on a video and I make $10,000.00 per comment
And heres me working on a First person shooter... well.. I guess I better start keeping score.
That's another thing to figure in. Price of tools (like game engines, editors, etc) and purchased assets.
What is the cost for staffing themselves??Can anyone explain it to me?Or any examples maybe?
Starts at 0:53
Could you do a straight up programming series?
@ask gamedev I'm actually pretty young and just about to start my 7th grade year and I already have my eyes set on becoming a game designer though I have no experience or idea on how it works I would love to start learning how to take steps as a game designer
Go Dot is free. There are a few tutorials on youtube for learning about it. I believe coding for kids uploaded one called "your first game" or something like that.
Difficult to look for while on mobile app but I believe you'll be able to find it.
This two channels are great for gamedesign:
ua-cam.com/channels/qJ-Xo29CKyLTjn6z2XwYAw.html
ua-cam.com/channels/Y3A_5R_m3PXCn5XDhvBBsg.html
What engine to use - it really doesn't matter to be honest.
Try Godot 3. Or you may try Unity 2019. Gamemaker Studio 2 is good too.