I'm 68, as a carnivore I maintained therapeutic ketosis in conjunction with chemotherapy for stage 3 cancer. I fasted 3 days before and 2 days after each infusion. I have RESOLVED all my metastasized tumors and am now cancer free. I highly recommend Prof Thomas Seyfried's protocol to starve cancer. I am still carnivore, and am working to diminish body fat and rebuild muscle. 😊
i’m plant based with some fish .. good to hear that fasting before and after works .. did it reduce chemo side effects? if i get cancer .. i’d probably do exactly what you did (but keto with plants)… Seyfried and Longo make sense. i did wonder about Seyfrieds “illegal” glucose suppression drug .. but i guess his associated center in turkey isn’t under the same standard of care as the USA. glad to hear your doing well.
@@markj850 I switched because the link (bad) between animal fat and cancer / vascular dementia / PAD / stroke / MI / cancer is overwhelming … plants have significantly less methionine (amino acid) and methionine is highly associated with cancer in older populations. All in all, most of the longest lived and healthy populations (blue zones) reduce or eliminate animal protein in favor of plants. The switch was hard for me … especially daily and cheese, but, the scientific literature is overwhelming in favor of plant protein rather than. animal protein (as one gets older). At 66 I run 10k/day and do 5 days/week CrossFit ( I burn > 800kcal/day exercise) .. I morning load with 60g plant protein for b/fast and the other 60/70g during the day .. sometimes fish mostly more plants (beans / soy). If you wan to live longer and healthier switch to mostly plants, apart from ridiculous studies funded by the dairy industry (butter is back) any review would leave you with no doubt.
I had major gut issues a few years ago and traditional medicine wasn’t helping, even after 9 months. I was losing weight and becoming severely malnourished. I was desperate and willing to try anything. My good friend, a retired nurse, suggested a Hail Mary pass by fasting for 72 hours, with water the only thing I could have. I was 63. Well it worked. My gut was normal and healthy again. I followed that with 30 days on carnivore. I haven’t had a problem since. My muscles definitely declined in the 9 months of acute problem, but I’ve been building it back now that I can keep nutrition in my system. Fasting, even extended fasting, can work in older adults.
The focus on protein for muscle protein is the focus but in all of your conversations on protein studies there is no mention of how hormones play a part in fat loss and muscle protection. Dr Benjamin Bikman’s videos are a good follow up to Lyon’s and Layman’s protein videos. Great info over all
I'll be 60 in June, and I've been doing keto and periodic fasting for over a decade. I'm lean and very muscular. I use a 19/5 split, with a 2pm shake of around 60g of protein, and a full Keto meal of close to 90g if protein around 6pm. I finish that meal with Greek yogurt with blueberries and strawberries. This has given me an excellent blood panel, and helped me to maintain muscle mass, while keeping fat off of my body. I am very energetic every day, and can't even remember the last time I had so much as a cold, let alone any other illnesses. I also take Pro/Prebiotics and a time released vitamin C capsule. You can maintain muscle growth with resistance training, while you apply some fasting in your routine. That does not seem to be a big part of your considerations in this discussion. After spending my entire adult life in research, working in 42 countries around the world, I find your research dubious. For example, why in several you mentioned, were you using ONLY women? That is so restrictive and not indicative of everyone. Also, the exercise you introduced was mostly walking? Why not use more resistance training, if you want to offset sarcopenia? Two days a week is NOT going to do it. And anyone who has trained for any relevant time frame knows this as a simple rule. Yet you were surprised by the lack of results. Lol. Walking, as the most common type of exercise surely was not going to do it. These are very questionable decisions for those protocols, which clearly demonstrates to me why you got the results you did. As Head of Protocol or Head Researcher, I wouldn't have agreed to any of those guidelines. as they were ineffective at best. Lastly, any diet of over 200g of carbohydrates per day is ludicrous. Absolutely HORRIBLE. And I've proven this over the span of three decades, as I'm a biologist by profession, but have been a physical trainer, nutritionist and sleep coach as my side business for the last 37 years. So anyone wanting to continue their diseased based diet can surely do that, but for those who want to cut disease out of their lives, the FIRST thing you need to do is rid yourself of carbohydrates, at least less than thirty grams per day. Anything more than that, and you are setting yourself up for failure.
My God, the interviewer kept interrupting this wonderful scientist and rephrasing what he already said, making it even more confusing. The most frustrating interview with Dr Layman I have ever listened to.
This woman is so annoying. She so wants to show that she knows more than her expert guest, but she clearly does not. He was incredibly patient, but was low-key annoyed with her, as well. This is the first time that I have seen either of them, but I will have to go directly to his channel, if he has one.
I am 67 and have been eating just one big meal every day for nearly three years now. My typical daily meal contains healthy portions of high quality animal protein, a couple bowls of a variety of fresh steamed veggies and a generous amounts of healthy fats - cheese, nuts and lots of butter. I also consume a table spoon or two of cod liver oil every day. After the first two months of eating this way, i lost about 60 pounds of excess fluids and body fat. And soon after that i began reversing every chronic health condition that had plagued me for decades. The fatty liver condition was gone. The edema - excess fluids in the lower legs and feet went away. The occasional hypertension never returned. Even the symptoms of COPD went away - no more cough, wheezing and reduced shortness of breath, and i am still a modest smoker. Imagine that. No more getting up several times a night to pee. And eventually even the most stubborn condition of peripheral neuropathy in my feet subsided. My bones and teeth are stronger. My testosterone has improved. And if i get a scratch from a kitty, it seems to heal up faster than it would have a few years ago. I use no pharmaceutical products - prescribed or over the counter for any reason whatsoever, and feel stronger and healthier now than i did ten years ago. I never even get headaches and can't even remember the last time i even had a common cold. If anything, i will try to increase my protein intakes and exercise levels as time goes on. And may even quit smoking again one of these days. If i do that it would be easier to accomplish more HIIT type exercise without getting as winded.
Very enlightening. Been training for more than 50 years and I need this kind of super-nuanced info. Gabrielle might you perhaps consider providing a written extract of such valuable podcast? Containing the key points? Thx for the unique info taking protein synthesis to the next level for the elderly.
You should eat more protein earlier in the day; protein at the end of the day is the second best time. When you eat protein is more important for older people and catabolic people (sick people, weight loss, bed rest, post surgery, etc). Fasting is not good for older adults (I personally disagree). BCAA's are not worth the money. People aren't doing enough weight training and exercise. Weight loss is a calorie in calorie out problem (I also SUPER disagree with this and it's a shame such a smart person is still promoting such nonsense). Older adults need more protein through the day and larger amounts of protein at each meal. Young people can trigger synthesis with a few as 10 grams. Older folks need 45 or even 50 grams at a sitting (30 is minimum with a whey type protein). Fat is not bad but synthetic fats are terrible (I SUPER agree with this; IMHO this is the key to weight loss).
@@azteacher26 It is ultimately a calorie in - calorie out problem. It sounds like a simple solution, but it's not. If you disagree: Where do the calories stored in bodyfat appear from if they weren't eaten, and how do they disappear without being used in a metabolic process? Counting the calories 'in' can be easy, but the 'out' is far more complex with so many factors each dependant on, and influencing others. A common example is if I go for a run but my body adjusts and I'll be less active and use fewer calories when resting later. Another example if I remember correctly; in one of their other discussions Dr Layman suggested that the growth/repair cycle triggered by a protein breakfast could be using an extra 200-300 calories per day. That's an extra 10% of someone's daily calories 'Out' which is very significant if trying to lose weight. I consider high carb diets (Insulin - promoting fat storage/preventing fat use,) to be a very significant issue, but that doesn't escape the calories in/out view. Unfortunately the government advised food pyramid promotes high carb diets, and was observed in Dr Layman's studies to make unhealthy people more unhealthy! (Based on blood glucose response, at 59-60 minutes of the podcast.)
@@azteacher26 Hearty thx for this. I also disagree with the fasting..... and calories in and out. Have been fasting for many years but only time restricted feeding and lately very careful to get enough nutrients, especially protein during my eating window.
I hear the concerns about the loss of lean body mass from fasting, but two things, 1) fasting should always be accompanied with resistance training - anything else does not make sense, 2) weight loss exposes excess tissue that needs to be recycled and fasting is the best way to do this.
@@Jayla-dj2gj Exactly! He's concerned about older people doing very intensive fasting and accelerating their muscle loss. And those that have to be in bed rest have to be particularly careful because they are not getting resistance training, leading to faster muscle loss
@@Jayla-dj2gj Exactly! He's concerned about older people doing very intensive fasting and accelerating their muscle loss. And those that have to be in bed rest have to be particularly careful because they are not getting resistance training, leading to faster muscle loss
I listened to this podcast few times so I can remember all the things that's been discussed. Very educational and informative regarding protein intake and knowing the mistakes I have been doing. Thanks to both Doctors.
Clear and helpful messaging. Thanks. Especially in older adults, digestive aid (enzymes + acid) critical for efficient extraction of nutrients from all that protein and other food stuffs.
Keto since 55... 62 now. I've done heavy lifting since 16. I fasted a total of 40+ days in 2019... 10 day, 7 day, a few 5 day, & a bunch of 3 day fasts. I enjoyed them! (They weren't pure water fasts... I always had 2 light beers / day ... I know... I'm a bit weird). Anyway... none of that seemed to harm me at all. I got very lean, kept with my lifting throughout each fast. So... sure, now, in my 60s, maybe I wouldn't recover muscle lost in a fast very well, but it didn't seem to be a problem in my late 50s.
Dr Donald Layman swayed me ( sometime ago ) from eating OMAD to eating at least twice daily, as it came across from what he said, that it would be more beneficial especially when one is weight training in the fasted state. No regrets changing from OMAD to 2MAD.
I love Dr.Layman’s sharpness! Amazing information. Thank you!! Dr. Lion you are one of my best doctors 🙏❤️🔥 love the knowledge you share and your amazing guest 💝
Every morning my breakfast is a bowl of: 30-40 grams of bone protein powder, goji berries, 2 tsp creatine, 3 tsp EAAs, 1oz coconut yogurt unsweetened, stevia for sweetness, cocoa nibs, sometimes unsweetened coconut flakes, a sprinkle of cashews, 1tbsp of psyllium flakes. 2-4 dates on the side I hope that is ok. 48 years old, 150 lbs, 5'3. Working at muscle 🎉 Every 6 months ( for 8 years ) I get blood work done. Super low triglycerides. Everything looks great. I include healthy carbs, fats, protein throughout my week. I daily aim for 120-150 grams of protein daily. I love rebounding, walking and lifting weights. 2 weeks ago i started implementing making bone broth. I try and drink 2 cups a day, usually for part of my supper
🎉 thank you!! Trying ❤. Dumbbell curls I use 25 or 30s. 35 or 40 in each hand for bench press. 50 lbs for lunges. 🤞 Hopefully that's good. I do see muscle development. pushups ( male version) I can do 30-35. Working on chinups. So far I can do 4-5 in a row?@@johnnafarrell3336
Is bone protein a nutritional complete protein? I've heard Dr Layman mentioning that bone broth is not nutritionally complete. You may need to add actual flesh to get a complete protein profile. Even whey is a nutritionally complete protein
@@monnoo8221 great points! And very true. don't have numbers off the top of my head but excellent ratios of all that. I get a full panel done and more. Getting my labs looked at again next week. Every 6 months I go.
I always love your discussions with Don Layman, the OG of protein synthesis. As an older cohort, his research has been very beneficial to my quest for building muscle in later life.
OMG, how many different supplements all these doctors have been recommending? Do we really need all of them if we are on keto or carnivore diet? Does it mean we will need to take all these supplements for life? What if my body does not needed all them?? What are the side affects of extra supplements if body overdosed with? Kidney stones, joint pain?
I used to take a shitload of supplements. Now I eat a shitload of protein, sleep well , train hard , take no supplements and I feel great . Ted Naiman does the same .
@@traylaitken-cade6112 thank you! I just found Maria's and Naiman's interview. I was surprised how different approach to keto high protein but not high fat is. Makes sense
I’m a 67 year old man battling multiple forms of a Parkinson’s related disease called Dystonia that has taken away most of my ability to speak, chew and swallow, I also have high blood pressure, atrial fibrillation and spinal stenosis and I have fell into a state of depression, I was already a small man at 5’4” and 142 lbs, now about 5’3” and 117 lbs and so much of what little muscle I had has atrophied a great deal and I am wondering if all hope is lost in respect to possibly turning my physical state around, is it possible at all to rebuild my in my circumstances ??? Thank you so very much for any responses !!!
Dr. Lyon should also consider that most (I'm guessing) of her viewers/listeners are not doctors. She and her guests talk at the PhD vocabulary level, while most of us communicate at the 8th-12th grade vocabulary level.
@@bobcarrera3858they really don’t. They use basic vocabulary. So your comment is more reflective on the lack of education received by “most” people, if you are correct. Watch am actual medical lecture, and you’ll see how basic these podcasts are.
@@waffle_chair9269 Are you saying that these podcasts are for the benefit of medical professionals? If that's the case, I stand corrected. But if Dr. Lyon and others, like Attia and Peterson, are trying to reach and educate a broader audience, they need to adjust their communication accordingly.
I feel like whey protein isn’t a very good metric to be measuring these things. If you ate a steak, it digests much slower, so your peak leucine level wouldn’t occur as fast, and obviously it would take much longer to digest it overall.
I think just eating according to times in nature is the best it’s just not healthy to keep your machine constantly fed all day the way we are in America snacking all the time. You have to step away from the food at some point. 12-18 hrs daily fasting is good esp if you eating balanced meals in the eating window and also have a metabolic issue like insulin resistance that is improved by timed eating.
Protein is important. What's still an open question is does Whey Protein powder is fully absorbed in the body? That's assume one takes 35 grams of whey powder at once, while protein absorption is 15 gr/hour and it takes an hour to digest whey protein. So, it means that 20 grams go to waste.
My fasting is always accompanied by resistance training and what I lost at age 71 was not lean body mass but rather that big punch stomach. So my strength is enhanced but my stomach is nice and flat as a pancake. Gone from 175 to a solid 155lbs at 5 ft 9ins.
71 years old, well into my 7th year of intermittent fasting, mostly OMAD, ketovore. Never felt better in my life. This guy is FOS, gotta be selling something
You should probably listen to the information before making childish statements. You may learn something from an actual scientist. Why are Keto/carnivores unable to listen to differing information?
This is gold. Thank you. Dr Lyons is a life changer. I am doing more weights now. And to understand necessary protein! I have added more protein and weight training 💪. Thank you
Great podcasts, Gabrielle. And this is actually the first advertisement for the mud stuff that I have not thought that it was just someone suggesting that we drink mud (to help the microbiome in your gut, presumably, like animals that eat dirt). Just mentioning that for the humor of it.
49 years old man dexa last year, this year 50 8kg more of muscle, 20% fat went to 15%... Whole plant based food... Lucky to be enough rich to do blood test every 3 months. Nothing qrong Plant based protein around 1.6gr/kg, and hard strength training and continuous. Also more rest between set 2 minutes...
Dr layman … why do we need more protein as we get > 65yo ? Is it due to loss,of testosterone and muscle synthesis ? Will testosterone (TRT) kick up muscle synthesis back to 18yo level ? (I. 65 and just got my T up from 325 to 1000 … I’m feeling pretty jacked and energetic)
So, if I'm not trying to build muscle overnight, but rather to support the needs of my brain and liver, is it correct to say that I don't need 2500 mg of leucine with my evening protein?
I'm over 50 yrs old type2 diabetic and struggling so much with what to eat to gain muscle and lose body fat. I did lose about 65lbs last year and was able to get off all meds but really looking to add good quality muscle. Please help Dr.
Thank you, once again, for this great information! I am a 67 y/o female who has worked at getting higher protein 1st meal of the day, and shoot for 1 GM protein per ideal body weight. (over a year now) And it seems to be working! 💪🏻💪🏻I have 2 questions: I have heard varying resources say 20 gms. of protein for someone my size is enough. I do supplement with BCAA’s if I fall short of 30 gms., but don’t know if that is advisable. I weigh 110 lbs. Do I need to get a minimum of 30 gms. in my first meal and should I do resistance training fasted or after I have eaten?
I've found that individual protein caps can be effective for their individual benefits. The kidneys have to process protein regardless of what the body needs. Taking in proteins for what the body needs, more than the kidneys can handle, can cause kidney damage. More research has to be done to give the body what it needs so as not to upset the digestive system, and keep our bodies in balance.
Dr. Lyon ..did I hear that correctly, Dr. Layman stated that to maintain muscle mass, the daily maintenance would require 250-300 grams of protein daily⁉️
I was wondering the same at 7:05. I think he means 250-300 grams is the total amount of breakdown and repair that occurs daily, not the required amount that must be consumed. Maybe there is reabsorption going on?
No, he mentions 1.6 g/kg of ideal body weight (double the RDA of 0.8 g/kg) as ideal for older adults. If your ideal body weight is 150 lbs then you would have to eat 110 grams of protein per day. And the conversion of protein into muscle is far more effective if resistance training is done at least for 30 mins 3 times a week. It doesn't have to be intensive, even yoga can work q
Why is it that the majority of health influencers are concerned with chronically elevated mtor when they are discussing longevity (and therefore recommend some fasting to reduce it for periods of each day) but in discussions like this it isn’t even mentioned. This has always been the problem with medicine. Every ‘specialist’ only deals within their own circle. Not discussing the potential downside of chronically high mtor and just focussing on muscle building as if it’s the only thing that matters is just a newer version of the same old problem. In my opinion of course.
I used to be wonder why that is, too I've learned that Science is discovery. A discovery is an anomaly of some sort, which either hasn't been explained with current models, or is inadequately explained. In plain English, a discovery is a question, or a limited set of interrelated questions. Layman, as a scientist, has a professional obligation to only this.
10:08:19 I am 66 and I am fasting for 7 days ofen. Just water and coffee. After two months I can do my usual strength training ;-) Regular training is healthy and fun anyway ;-)
Would love to hear Dr. Lyon's or Dr. Layman's opinion on how gorillas can have so much more muscle mass than people as their diet is mostly fruit and greens. Do they reach the leucine threshold by the sheer amount of their food although it's spread throughout the day? Is their leucine threshold lower because of higher testosterone levels compared to humans? Is the leucine threshold higher in older people compared to young adults because of the different hormone levels?
While fasting my toenails turned yellow and when I showered, it smelled like cigarettes I hadn’t smoked since I was 20 years old. I was 45 when that fasting pushed that poison out of my body. A lot of my scar tissue went away, and I had a bad cuticle on my thumband my thumb nail entirely healed itself and it didn’t grow for over 10 years had digestive issues, bleeding, ulcers, irritable bowel all healed from fasting. I have medical records to prove everything.
Perhaps someone could read this recent study: "Leucine -- seems to have a disproportionate role in driving the pathological pathways linked to atherosclerosis, or stiff, hardened arteries. Consuming over 22% of dietary calories from protein can lead to increased activation of immune cells that play a role in atherosclerotic plaque formation,"University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Feb 2024. Cheers
Thank you. So much great information. I have a question regarding IF, he consider fasting 48 hours, so I guess 16:8 is no problem for the muscle growth or maintenance if you plenty of your protein intake?
Dude. Im 64 lm gaining muscle every month on high protein,fat no carb, please provide chat with a clinical trial , I use a $30 rubber resistance band, with 18 bycepts, was 17 18 months ago , so?
I don't give a damn about increasing muscle mass. I'm 64. I'm not training for the Olympics. I do regular 36 hour fasts and occasional 72 hour fasts because (a) I'm willing to try anything that might lessen the risk of dementia, (b) lessen the risk of cancer, and (c) lessen the risk of diabetes.
@@erickminorI’m well read on fasting and have years of experience with it. You may want to take a deep dive into it for yourself. Extensive research has been done and the benefits are typically phenomenal. If you’re trying to give your body an edge to fight disease there is nothing more effective.
If you are worried about dementia, then you should be worried about replacing the muscle mass lost, every decade, and maintaining it 😂 muscle mass is equally important. Fasting properly does not reduce muscle mass in any significant way.
I gained 40 pounds when my body was in full-blown acromegaly and hypothyroid. Now on medicine that maintains my hormones. Now I am trying to get the 40 pounds off easily and so easy to gain. I have 12 pounds to go. Then, I am still overweight. I will make new goals. I do have diabetes/ carb sensitivity. This problem was made by my acromegaly daily 3 injections. Which I see my physician on Friday. I can eat 10 grams of carbs and my BS zooms up to 275. Once my BS went to 275 and then it dropped quickly to 90. I was thinking maybe my diet was off. I do add protein. Acromegaly when active I lose my muscles to recover from balance. I fell a lot and broke my bones. I never want to be there again. Anyway, I am 70 and my hormones have been regulated now for 2 years. It takes your body a while to adjust.
His first few sentences lost me. It’s all bullshit about it being hard to gain muscle after whatever year! I have great arms for a 73-year old woman; I can do 95 and 100 pounds on the triceps press; 180 on inclined leg press (15 reps on any of those). You just have to eat right for muscle growth-whole raw milk and kefir are my secret weapon! And enough BBBE, of course! And I only started with weights about 3 years ago! If I could do it, anyone can do it (a person with a runner’s build (like my husband) may never bulk up a lot, but his muscles are stronger than my bulky ones! He can do farmer’s walk with 40 and 45 lb kettlebells; I can do 200 steps with 25 lb kettlebells and 100 steps with the thirty pounders. And he’s 76! If you want to create new lean muscle in senior years, you absolutely can, and don’t let anyone tell you different!
Calm down. He said that it is harder and takes more protein and more strength training, than for under forty folks. And you started from being a couch potato it seems. I've been lifting actual weights (not "machines") since I was 14, and I'm a 61 yo female. It is most definitely not possible to maintain or even gain over the long term (when you start out buff), no matter how much animal protein and strength training I do. (w/o HRT). I started my 80 mother on (no-impact) CrossFit...and since she had only been "walking", she saw huge gains in every aspect of her strength, health and appearance, too. And that was with only twice per week workouts for a couple of months and only slight improvements to her diet (she is extremely stubborn and carby).
Hello what do you recommend for protein distribution for a 135 lb (11% bf DEXA) 42 year-old guy who wants to build muscle? I aim for 1g/lb and still if I want to have 4 meals with high quality protein (but I count all protein sources except collagene) I will barely hit 2,5g leucine (or not hit 3g) especially if we need more for mixed meal. I resistance train 4-5 times / week so the stimulus from it is there. Should I bother to reach the trashold at all cost? I can eat more protein or eat prot only 2-3 meals (4th only fruits for example) but I want it to be sustainable and not that weird. I cant imagine with that low bodyweight how I could eat less than 1g/lb (which is considered high!) and reach the trashold every time. If i get bigger I should eat more anyway so I can count me as 150-160lb target but it will be probably years. And my macro balance would be weird as I do not need that much chalories and protein would be in higher % (no problem just limiting factor). I am sure not I am the only one with low weight. :)
Im a 63 year old woman. Ive always exercised but in the last 10 years have dropped over 10 pds & am losing muscle. I started carnivore a few months ago so am eating lots of proteins but can't gain weight or muscle still. I do fast 12 to 14 hrs between dinner & breakfast. Should I not be fasting at all?
@user-mo6qf6sh3s I feel like I'm getting enough. I eat 4 scrambled eggs & 4 or 5 pieces of bacon around 10 a.m. then 2 good sized hamburger patties with cottage cheese in the evening. Usually a piece of cheese or 15 to 20 gram yogurts in between. I'm not really sure how to count protein in hamburger or steak.
*** HELP *** Hi Dr Lyon, I’ve been reasonably close to your “muscle centric” approach for about 1 year or so. This week, we found out my wife (42 years old) had Grade 2 Breast Cancer. There are two or three in the left breast and some Cells in the armpit Lymph Node they say. It is specifically, HER2 Positive and she is due to start chemotherapy in the next 2 weeks we think. I was hoping to get some advise regarding what a general approach to diet should be during the process and maybe beyond. Immediately, we have got a few people saying cut out meat. She only eats chicken and fish and otherwise decent amount of vegetables and carbs. Doesn’t drink now - rarely 1-2 wines maybe and was ex-smoker around 10 yrs back (few per day or socially). Would really appreciate your thoughts on protein amounts, source, etc. Can I discount the notion that since mTor is activated - that this also encourages these cancer growths? Or perhaps limit glucose? Thank you - any help is appreciated 🙏🏽
If a person can't eat dairy (whey protein included) can they get the same amount of leucine from a high quality vegan protein? For instance Vega Sport? Or should one supplement in the morning with extra leucine in order to hit the required amounts in the morning?
This is so great......the last part confirmed for me that I'm doing the right thing! I find it impossible to eat one gram per pound of my ideal body weight, which is 120. So I've been using an Amino Acid Complex and also some BCAAs to fill in the gap.Also lunch is often a smoothie using egg white protein, since whey doesn't work for me. I've hoped using all these, plus as much animal protein as I can manage to eat, is adequate, and now, if I understood Dr Layman correctly, it's fine. Maybe not perfect, but a good thing to do, in order to get enough leucine. Yay! Thank you Dr Layman and Dr Lyon!
At 65 (80% plants, 20% fish) I never worried about protein until watching your channel. Now, I load up in the morning (after the fasted 6k run but before CrossFit) with 56g of plant protein and (thank you chronograph) magically - get 2.2g leucine. I keep fat < 51g/day (
I sopped eating animal protein due to saturated fat and a high ldl cholesterol … (which reduced by 50%) a recent ct angiogram showed ZERO calcified plaque and “no vessel disease” and “Valves and structures” normal …. So … no great desire to swap “maybe” protein bioavailability for heart disease. As for bioavailability … all protein is broken down into amino acids and the. Reconstituted back into,protein .. I’ve seen no studies or data showing plant protein any less bio available than animal protein. I’m also really happy keeping methionine low cos I also don’t want cancer ..
@@jp7357 That may be lovely for a cow or a pig, except it isn't working for you, a human. You are living in the fallacies of the 80's. You know what does work...going carnivore and eating high fat.
@@vanillaghetto well, the would work well if I wanted to die of coronary disease, stroke, or one of a number of atherosclerosis related disease states. As a “90% carnivore” my ldlc was 200 and it’s now 65 since going mostly plant based my arterial inflammation markers have reduced from 220 to 65 … you carnivores are all about “inflammation” but oddly never get your actually arterial inflammation tested .. lp-pla2 and MPO. Easier to bury your head in the sand or just focus on hsCRP which is a useless marker of arterial inflammation.
@@douglaslegvold9215 i just completed a 72hr dry fast, I’m 12 hours into refeeding/just drinking water now for the next 12 hrs, then onto diluted broth and kefir. This was my second DF ever, my first was last week of 48hrs. Both dry fasts were exploratory and planned on being shorter but they were so much easier and better for me and my life-long digestive issue that I continued. I’ve been water fasting and intermittent fasting for over 11 hours. I spent a lot of time outside in the cold and snow and hot post-equinox sun. The quantum biology principles of gathering electrons from the ground and the sun are key to keeping energy up. Whenever I was indoors I would lag and get tired. Outside I’d hike for hours, shovel snow, sit in a hot tub. Both my dry fasts were soft dry fasts (water on skin). I think the scientists sitting in fluorescent lit labs and clinics are missing out on a giant piece of the optimal health puzzle and that’s junk light being toxic to a circadian living being. Our mitochondria is involved in an electron transport system. It’s electrons they need, gathered from the earth and the sun, cold/hot therapy. The toxic light and artificial light post-sunset and non native emf dehydrate the mitochondria. Another giant piece is deuterium. The dry fast, by avoiding water intake, promotes the body to draw metabolic water from fat cells, that’s why it’s gangbusters for permanent weight loss. The metabolic water is deuterium depleted, aka structured water or 4th stage water or EZ water (see Gerald Pollack scientist who discovered this and Carrie Bennett who describes it well). So for 3 days I excluded any potential deuterium from coming in while my body spent time depleting deuterium. Animal products are very low in deuterium while fruit and plants are very high. So many preparatory and refeed schedules include fruits and juices that are super high in deuterium (like coconut water) and oxalates (orange juice) that the dry fast benefits are stunted. I see some major blindspots in the high protein space as well as the fasting spaces- oxalate dumping phenomena, deuterium, quantum biology. Everyone is in their bubbles confirming their biases. I’ve heard Gabrielle Lyon state that circadian rhythm protocols are on her list but she hasn’t done them yet, even the simple stuff. Thanks for asking!
He said leucine is a waste of money on its own, but who actually does that outside of a lab? The amino mix I take has 4g of leucine plus all the other BCAA's, so in that situation is the answer Yes? His answer seems a bit too academic and not very practical.
I'm 68, as a carnivore I maintained therapeutic ketosis in conjunction with chemotherapy for stage 3 cancer. I fasted 3 days before and 2 days after each infusion. I have RESOLVED all my metastasized tumors and am now cancer free. I highly recommend Prof Thomas Seyfried's protocol to starve cancer. I am still carnivore, and am working to diminish body fat and rebuild muscle. 😊
Great news for a bad situation. Wish you well.
i’m plant based with some fish .. good to hear that fasting before and after works .. did it reduce chemo side effects?
if i get cancer .. i’d probably do exactly what you did (but keto with plants)… Seyfried and Longo make sense.
i did wonder about Seyfrieds “illegal” glucose suppression drug .. but i guess his associated center in turkey isn’t under the same standard of care as the USA.
glad to hear your doing well.
Good man he's fck wrong in our opinion
@@jp7357I can't believe there is so much information about importance of animal protein and there is still somebody a vegetarian
@@markj850 I switched because the link (bad) between animal fat and cancer / vascular dementia / PAD / stroke / MI / cancer is overwhelming … plants have significantly less methionine (amino acid) and methionine is highly associated with cancer in older populations. All in all, most of the longest lived and healthy populations (blue zones) reduce or eliminate animal protein in favor of plants. The switch was hard for me … especially daily and cheese, but, the scientific literature is overwhelming in favor of plant protein rather than. animal protein (as one gets older). At 66 I run 10k/day and do 5 days/week CrossFit ( I burn > 800kcal/day exercise) .. I morning load with 60g plant protein for b/fast and the other 60/70g during the day .. sometimes fish mostly more plants (beans / soy). If you wan to live longer and healthier switch to mostly plants, apart from ridiculous studies funded by the dairy industry (butter is back) any review would leave you with no doubt.
I had major gut issues a few years ago and traditional medicine wasn’t helping, even after 9 months. I was losing weight and becoming severely malnourished. I was desperate and willing to try anything. My good friend, a retired nurse, suggested a Hail Mary pass by fasting for 72 hours, with water the only thing I could have. I was 63. Well it worked. My gut was normal and healthy again. I followed that with 30 days on carnivore. I haven’t had a problem since. My muscles definitely declined in the 9 months of acute problem, but I’ve been building it back now that I can keep nutrition in my system. Fasting, even extended fasting, can work in older adults.
Interesting how just one fasting session of 72 hours fixed all your gut issues, which I’ve never heard of. But glad it fixed your issues.
The focus on protein for muscle protein is the focus but in all of your conversations on protein studies there is no mention of how hormones play a part in fat loss and muscle protection. Dr Benjamin Bikman’s videos are a good follow up to Lyon’s and Layman’s protein videos. Great info over all
Thanks for this.
excess protein intake (specifically foods high in methionine and leucine) has a lot of research highlighting it's bad for longevity
@@suren123abut this video says nothing about “excessive protein intake.” They only talked about what’s optimal.
@@RoyalPurpleStar the optimal amount is higher than fda regulations which is already higher than avg
I'll be 60 in June, and I've been doing keto and periodic fasting for over a decade. I'm lean and very muscular. I use a 19/5 split, with a 2pm shake of around 60g of protein, and a full Keto meal of close to 90g if protein around 6pm. I finish that meal with Greek yogurt with blueberries and strawberries. This has given me an excellent blood panel, and helped me to maintain muscle mass, while keeping fat off of my body. I am very energetic every day, and can't even remember the last time I had so much as a cold, let alone any other illnesses. I also take Pro/Prebiotics and a time released vitamin C capsule. You can maintain muscle growth with resistance training, while you apply some fasting in your routine. That does not seem to be a big part of your considerations in this discussion. After spending my entire adult life in research, working in 42 countries around the world, I find your research dubious. For example, why in several you mentioned, were you using ONLY women? That is so restrictive and not indicative of everyone. Also, the exercise you introduced was mostly walking? Why not use more resistance training, if you want to offset sarcopenia? Two days a week is NOT going to do it. And anyone who has trained for any relevant time frame knows this as a simple rule. Yet you were surprised by the lack of results. Lol. Walking, as the most common type of exercise surely was not going to do it. These are very questionable decisions for those protocols, which clearly demonstrates to me why you got the results you did. As Head of Protocol or Head Researcher, I wouldn't have agreed to any of those guidelines. as they were ineffective at best.
Lastly, any diet of over 200g of carbohydrates per day is ludicrous. Absolutely HORRIBLE. And I've proven this over the span of three decades, as I'm a biologist by profession, but have been a physical trainer, nutritionist and sleep coach as my side business for the last 37 years. So anyone wanting to continue their diseased based diet can surely do that, but for those who want to cut disease out of their lives, the FIRST thing you need to do is rid yourself of carbohydrates, at least less than thirty grams per day. Anything more than that, and you are setting yourself up for failure.
Thank you
So, what's 30 gr. of carbs include, few apples? And, do you need any carbs in this case? Thx
I totally agree with you. These people need to let us know whose funding them....
What is a 19/5 split? How is it used? Thank you.
I think he means 19 hours fasting, and a 5 hour window for eatiing.
My God, the interviewer kept interrupting this wonderful scientist and rephrasing what he already said, making it even more confusing. The most frustrating interview with Dr Layman I have ever listened to.
This woman is so annoying. She so wants to show that she knows more than her expert guest, but she clearly does not. He was incredibly patient, but was low-key annoyed with her, as well. This is the first time that I have seen either of them, but I will have to go directly to his channel, if he has one.
I am 67 and have been eating just one big meal every day for nearly three years now. My typical daily meal contains healthy portions of high quality animal protein, a couple bowls of a variety of fresh steamed veggies and a generous amounts of healthy fats - cheese, nuts and lots of butter. I also consume a table spoon or two of cod liver oil every day.
After the first two months of eating this way, i lost about 60 pounds of excess fluids and body fat. And soon after that i began reversing every chronic health condition that had plagued me for decades. The fatty liver condition was gone. The edema - excess fluids in the lower legs and feet went away. The occasional hypertension never returned. Even the symptoms of COPD went away - no more cough, wheezing and reduced shortness of breath, and i am still a modest smoker. Imagine that. No more getting up several times a night to pee. And eventually even the most stubborn condition of peripheral neuropathy in my feet subsided. My bones and teeth are stronger. My testosterone has improved. And if i get a scratch from a kitty, it seems to heal up faster than it would have a few years ago.
I use no pharmaceutical products - prescribed or over the counter for any reason whatsoever, and feel stronger and healthier now than i did ten years ago. I never even get headaches and can't even remember the last time i even had a common cold. If anything, i will try to increase my protein intakes and exercise levels as time goes on. And may even quit smoking again one of these days. If i do that it would be easier to accomplish more HIIT type exercise without getting as winded.
@Tonyprice2256, What is s your Ldl-c ?
@Tonyprice2256, And what is your blood pressure, height & weight?
A tablespoon or two of cod liver oil everyday?! 😮 Wow, that’s a lot. I do one teaspoon a day because I don’t want to overdose on vitamin A.
Very enlightening. Been training for more than 50 years and I need this kind of super-nuanced info. Gabrielle might you perhaps consider providing a written extract of such valuable podcast? Containing the key points?
Thx for the unique info taking protein synthesis to the next level for the elderly.
You should eat more protein earlier in the day; protein at the end of the day is the second best time. When you eat protein is more important for older people and catabolic people (sick people, weight loss, bed rest, post surgery, etc). Fasting is not good for older adults (I personally disagree). BCAA's are not worth the money. People aren't doing enough weight training and exercise. Weight loss is a calorie in calorie out problem (I also SUPER disagree with this and it's a shame such a smart person is still promoting such nonsense). Older adults need more protein through the day and larger amounts of protein at each meal. Young people can trigger synthesis with a few as 10 grams. Older folks need 45 or even 50 grams at a sitting (30 is minimum with a whey type protein). Fat is not bad but synthetic fats are terrible (I SUPER agree with this; IMHO this is the key to weight loss).
@@azteacher26 It is ultimately a calorie in - calorie out problem. It sounds like a simple solution, but it's not.
If you disagree: Where do the calories stored in bodyfat appear from if they weren't eaten, and how do they disappear without being used in a metabolic process?
Counting the calories 'in' can be easy, but the 'out' is far more complex with so many factors each dependant on, and influencing others. A common example is if I go for a run but my body adjusts and I'll be less active and use fewer calories when resting later. Another example if I remember correctly; in one of their other discussions Dr Layman suggested that the growth/repair cycle triggered by a protein breakfast could be using an extra 200-300 calories per day. That's an extra 10% of someone's daily calories 'Out' which is very significant if trying to lose weight.
I consider high carb diets (Insulin - promoting fat storage/preventing fat use,) to be a very significant issue, but that doesn't escape the calories in/out view. Unfortunately the government advised food pyramid promotes high carb diets, and was observed in Dr Layman's studies to make unhealthy people more unhealthy! (Based on blood glucose response, at 59-60 minutes of the podcast.)
@@azteacher26 Hearty thx for this. I also disagree with the fasting..... and calories in and out. Have been fasting for many years but only time restricted feeding and lately very careful to get enough nutrients, especially protein during my eating window.
I hear the concerns about the loss of lean body mass from fasting, but two things, 1) fasting should always be accompanied with resistance training - anything else does not make sense, 2) weight loss exposes excess tissue that needs to be recycled and fasting is the best way to do this.
He's talking about older people who won't be able to put that muscle back on.
@@Jayla-dj2gj Exactly! He's concerned about older people doing very intensive fasting and accelerating their muscle loss. And those that have to be in bed rest have to be particularly careful because they are not getting resistance training, leading to faster muscle loss
@@Jayla-dj2gj Exactly! He's concerned about older people doing very intensive fasting and accelerating their muscle loss. And those that have to be in bed rest have to be particularly careful because they are not getting resistance training, leading to faster muscle loss
@@Jayla-dj2gj I am one of those older peopleand have been resistance training and fasting for many years. NO PROBLEM.
@@nataliajimenez1870 best rest is a killer! It should always be accompanied by pt! Ask me how I know!
My favorite two speakers on the subject of protein☺️
I listened to this podcast few times so I can remember all the things that's been discussed. Very educational and informative regarding protein intake and knowing the mistakes I have been doing. Thanks to both Doctors.
Clear and helpful messaging. Thanks. Especially in older adults, digestive aid (enzymes + acid) critical for efficient extraction of nutrients from all that protein and other food stuffs.
Keto since 55... 62 now. I've done heavy lifting since 16. I fasted a total of 40+ days in 2019... 10 day, 7 day, a few 5 day, & a bunch of 3 day fasts. I enjoyed them! (They weren't pure water fasts... I always had 2 light beers / day ... I know... I'm a bit weird). Anyway... none of that seemed to harm me at all. I got very lean, kept with my lifting throughout each fast. So... sure, now, in my 60s, maybe I wouldn't recover muscle lost in a fast very well, but it didn't seem to be a problem in my late 50s.
Dr Donald Layman swayed me ( sometime ago ) from eating OMAD to eating at least twice daily, as it came across from what he said, that it would be more beneficial especially when one is weight training in the fasted state.
No regrets changing from OMAD to 2MAD.
Layne was just on rich roll. Would you consider going on his show?
Layne is a 🤡. Listen to Don Layman. I know that Layne studied under Layman, but why would you ever listen to Layne? Dude is abnoxious and arrogant.
omg the ads.. interesting content, though I had to quit halfway through. I got tired of those ads
I love Dr.Layman’s sharpness! Amazing information.
Thank you!!
Dr. Lion you are one of my best doctors 🙏❤️🔥 love the knowledge you share and your amazing guest 💝
This conversation of you two is always a delight
Every morning my breakfast is a bowl of: 30-40 grams of bone protein powder, goji berries, 2 tsp creatine, 3 tsp EAAs, 1oz coconut yogurt unsweetened, stevia for sweetness, cocoa nibs, sometimes unsweetened coconut flakes, a sprinkle of cashews, 1tbsp of psyllium flakes. 2-4 dates on the side
I hope that is ok. 48 years old, 150 lbs, 5'3. Working at muscle 🎉
Every 6 months ( for 8 years ) I get blood work done. Super low triglycerides. Everything looks great. I include healthy carbs, fats, protein throughout my week. I daily aim for 120-150 grams of protein daily.
I love rebounding, walking and lifting weights.
2 weeks ago i started implementing making bone broth. I try and drink 2 cups a day, usually for part of my supper
Lift heavy
🎉 thank you!! Trying ❤. Dumbbell curls I use 25 or 30s. 35 or 40 in each hand for bench press. 50 lbs for lunges. 🤞 Hopefully that's good. I do see muscle development. pushups ( male version) I can do 30-35. Working on chinups. So far I can do 4-5 in a row?@@johnnafarrell3336
thats sth like est. 20% body fat? what is your body fat%, your LDL and HDL? ...trigs are only part of the equation.
Is bone protein a nutritional complete protein? I've heard Dr Layman mentioning that bone broth is not nutritionally complete. You may need to add actual flesh to get a complete protein profile. Even whey is a nutritionally complete protein
@@monnoo8221 great points! And very true.
don't have numbers off the top of my head but excellent ratios of all that. I get a full panel done and more. Getting my labs looked at again next week. Every 6 months I go.
Mr. Layman adds the related studies that add to, verify, a common sense way if eating and living your exercising life.
I always love your discussions with Don Layman, the OG of protein synthesis. As an older cohort, his research has been very beneficial to my quest for building muscle in later life.
OMG, how many different supplements all these doctors have been recommending? Do we really need all of them if we are on keto or carnivore diet? Does it mean we will need to take all these supplements for life? What if my body does not needed all them?? What are the side affects of extra supplements if body overdosed with? Kidney stones, joint pain?
I used to take a shitload of supplements. Now I eat a shitload of protein, sleep well , train hard , take no supplements and I feel great . Ted Naiman does the same .
Yeah, all of them recommending supplements that they sale.
Whey needed only if you struggle getting enough protein. Creatine does help you put on muscle.
@@traylaitken-cade6112 thank you! I just found Maria's and Naiman's interview. I was surprised how different approach to keto high protein but not high fat is. Makes sense
@@iss8504 Creatine MAY increase muscle, but only the pharma grade. All creatine studies use only pharma grade.
I’m a 67 year old man battling multiple forms of a Parkinson’s related disease called Dystonia that has taken away most of my ability to speak, chew and swallow, I also have high blood pressure, atrial fibrillation and spinal stenosis and I have fell into a state of depression, I was already a small man at 5’4” and 142 lbs, now about 5’3” and 117 lbs and so much of what little muscle I had has atrophied a great deal and I am wondering if all hope is lost in respect to possibly turning my physical state around, is it possible at all to rebuild my in my circumstances ???
Thank you so very much for any responses !!!
Very interesting conversation , but the advertisement is so annoying I have to remote all the time😑
My two most fav persons! Thank you! 🙏💞
Please summarize the conversation with quick takeaways. Thanks.
Dr. Lyon should also consider that most (I'm guessing) of her viewers/listeners are not doctors. She and her guests talk at the PhD vocabulary level, while most of us communicate at the 8th-12th grade vocabulary level.
@@bobcarrera3858they really don’t. They use basic vocabulary. So your comment is more reflective on the lack of education received by “most” people, if you are correct. Watch am actual medical lecture, and you’ll see how basic these podcasts are.
@@waffle_chair9269 Are you saying that these podcasts are for the benefit of medical professionals? If that's the case, I stand corrected. But if Dr. Lyon and others, like Attia and Peterson, are trying to reach and educate a broader audience, they need to adjust their communication accordingly.
Way too many commercial interruptions.
They are easily skippable on a computer or tablet (less easy on phones) by simply clicking at the end of each ad segment.
Or get premium. Better than Netflix 💯💯
I've got premium. Doesn't help with these embedded interruptions
That will help the show keep going.if you are a faithful listener you can buy their commercial products
Yes, but there are way too many for the amount of content.
I feel like whey protein isn’t a very good metric to be measuring these things. If you ate a steak, it digests much slower, so your peak leucine level wouldn’t occur as fast, and obviously it would take much longer to digest it overall.
I think just eating according to times in nature is the best it’s just not healthy to keep your machine constantly fed all day the way we are in America snacking all the time. You have to step away from the food at some point.
12-18 hrs daily fasting is good esp if you eating balanced meals in the eating window and also have a metabolic issue like insulin resistance that is improved by timed eating.
Protein is important. What's still an open question is does Whey Protein powder is fully absorbed in the body? That's assume one takes 35 grams of whey powder at once, while protein absorption is 15 gr/hour and it takes an hour to digest whey protein. So, it means that 20 grams go to waste.
My fasting is always accompanied by resistance training and what I lost at age 71 was not lean body mass but rather that big punch stomach. So my strength is enhanced but my stomach is nice and flat as a pancake. Gone from 175 to a solid 155lbs at 5 ft 9ins.
So was ground beef better than steak for protein synthesis with muscle Hypertrophy in mind????
71 years old, well into my 7th year of intermittent fasting, mostly OMAD, ketovore. Never felt better in my life. This guy is FOS, gotta be selling something
Agree I'm out
You should probably listen to the information before making childish statements. You may learn something from an actual scientist. Why are Keto/carnivores unable to listen to differing information?
Cut him some slack. Cognitive decline gets to all of us at some stage in life!@@erickminor
lol bro he is a scientist.. and he doesn’t sell anything..
Nonsense on fasting. I’m 63. I do regular extended fasts. Fasting has effects on the body this guy doesn’t understand.
This is gold. Thank you. Dr Lyons is a life changer. I am doing more weights now. And to understand necessary protein! I have added more protein and weight training 💪. Thank you
Great podcasts, Gabrielle. And this is actually the first advertisement for the mud stuff that I have not thought that it was just someone suggesting that we drink mud (to help the microbiome in your gut, presumably, like animals that eat dirt). Just mentioning that for the humor of it.
Too many paid endorsements I listen to him on other podcasts to avoid the overwhelming commercials
Do UA-cam premium.. game changer
49 years old man dexa last year, this year 50 8kg more of muscle, 20% fat went to 15%... Whole plant based food... Lucky to be enough rich to do blood test every 3 months. Nothing qrong
Plant based protein around 1.6gr/kg, and hard strength training and continuous. Also more rest between set 2 minutes...
The dynamic duo!! ❤
Yes, they are.
73 yr old Carnavore one year TODAY. I eat one grm a lbs weight protein per day. Thats qbout 150 grams per day .I was 120 lb last yr. Im up 36 lbs.
What would be the main takeaways?
Dr layman … why do we need more protein as we get > 65yo ? Is it due to loss,of testosterone and muscle synthesis ? Will testosterone (TRT) kick up muscle synthesis back to 18yo level ? (I. 65 and just got my T up from 325 to 1000 … I’m feeling pretty jacked and energetic)
So, if I'm not trying to build muscle overnight, but rather to support the needs of my brain and liver, is it correct to say that I don't need 2500 mg of leucine with my evening protein?
Is there a benefit to drinking BCAA + EAA during a weight training session?
I take collagen peptides every e hours as they all get used up quickly
Why not steak and broccoli? What is the difference between steak and broccoli and steak and green beans ? Serious question.
Excellent, thank you so much!
I'm over 50 yrs old type2 diabetic and struggling so much with what to eat to gain muscle and lose body fat. I did lose about 65lbs last year and was able to get off all meds but really looking to add good quality muscle. Please help Dr.
Low fat cheese (
Eat salads,legumes..
When Don speaks, I listen!
So listen to outdated info, your choice.
@@TheCatseyepub oh, so I guess you’ve got more up-to-date info then, yeah? 😂😂🤡🤡
But some people get shivering cold and sick from fasting so everyone are not supposed to fast
Thank you, once again, for this great information! I am a 67 y/o female who has worked at getting higher protein 1st meal of the day, and shoot for 1 GM protein per ideal body weight. (over a year now) And it seems to be working! 💪🏻💪🏻I have 2 questions: I have heard varying resources say 20 gms. of protein for someone my size is enough. I do supplement with BCAA’s if I fall short of 30 gms., but don’t know if that is advisable. I weigh 110 lbs. Do I need to get a minimum of 30 gms. in my first meal and should I do resistance training fasted or after I have eaten?
Dr Lyon , do you agree with Dr Layman, that it is not possible to build muscle after the age of 60 , especially in woman ?
the study that uses 200g carb 60g protein vs 130g carb 120g protein. hmm that's not isocaloric, can i have the link to the study to see the numbers?
If I'm 65 year old woman who is 4'10" tall and 78 lbs, do I still need at least 2.5 g of leucine??
Just hit more than 30f protein per meal will give enough leucine...I also take collagen peptides
@natalie8518 yes, but I'm a tiny 78 lb woman... so that would mean I'd be getting more than 1 gram per pound
Awesome interview !!
Thank you
I've found that individual protein caps can be effective for their individual benefits. The kidneys have to process protein regardless of what the body needs. Taking in proteins for what the body needs, more than the kidneys can handle, can cause kidney damage. More research has to be done to give the body what it needs so as not to upset the digestive system, and keep our bodies in balance.
This is not true. Gabrielle has covered this
my two favs. looking forward to this one.
Dr. Lyon ..did I hear that correctly, Dr. Layman stated that to maintain muscle mass, the daily maintenance would require 250-300 grams of protein daily⁉️
I was wondering the same at 7:05. I think he means 250-300 grams is the total amount of breakdown and repair that occurs daily, not the required amount that must be consumed. Maybe there is reabsorption going on?
Yes, that was including proteins being broken down and reused.
No, he mentions 1.6 g/kg of ideal body weight (double the RDA of 0.8 g/kg) as ideal for older adults. If your ideal body weight is 150 lbs then you would have to eat 110 grams of protein per day. And the conversion of protein into muscle is far more effective if resistance training is done at least for 30 mins 3 times a week. It doesn't have to be intensive, even yoga can work q
@@nataliajimenez1870 Yoga can "work" if you want to entirely neglect 1/3 of your body! (your pulling muscles...back, biceps, etc.)
I find this hard to believe. A 50 year old thar only eats smaller meals (2g of Leucine) will see protein synthesis stop. Does this make any sense?
The best podcast duo 💯💯
Please include More Adverts. The world needs more!
Why is it that the majority of health influencers are concerned with chronically elevated mtor when they are discussing longevity (and therefore recommend some fasting to reduce it for periods of each day) but in discussions like this it isn’t even mentioned. This has always been the problem with medicine. Every ‘specialist’ only deals within their own circle. Not discussing the potential downside of chronically high mtor and just focussing on muscle building as if it’s the only thing that matters is just a newer version of the same old problem. In my opinion of course.
I used to be wonder why that is, too I've learned that Science is discovery. A discovery is an anomaly of some sort, which either hasn't been explained with current models, or is inadequately explained. In plain English, a discovery is a question, or a limited set of interrelated questions. Layman, as a scientist, has a professional obligation to only this.
10:08:19 I am 66 and I am fasting for 7 days ofen. Just water and coffee. After two months I can do my usual strength training ;-)
Regular training is healthy and fun anyway ;-)
Fasting when one normally eats lots carbs is what layman is focusing on
Would love to hear Dr. Lyon's or Dr. Layman's opinion on how gorillas can have so much more muscle mass than people as their diet is mostly fruit and greens. Do they reach the leucine threshold by the sheer amount of their food although it's spread throughout the day? Is their leucine threshold lower because of higher testosterone levels compared to humans? Is the leucine threshold higher in older people compared to young adults because of the different hormone levels?
Just lettind him speak without interrupting would have been wonderful
She is all kinds of annoying. I won't be back.
While fasting my toenails turned yellow and when I showered, it smelled like cigarettes I hadn’t smoked since I was 20 years old. I was 45 when that fasting pushed that poison out of my body. A lot of my scar tissue went away, and I had a bad cuticle on my thumband my thumb nail entirely healed itself and it didn’t grow for over 10 years had digestive issues, bleeding, ulcers, irritable bowel all healed from fasting. I have medical records to prove everything.
Ooh, would have liked to hear more about how to get those essential amino acids from a plant based diet.
😂
I wish guests were allowed to finish their thoughts without interuption.
Perhaps someone could read this recent study: "Leucine -- seems to have a disproportionate role in driving the pathological pathways linked to atherosclerosis, or stiff, hardened arteries. Consuming over 22% of dietary calories from protein can lead to increased activation of immune cells that play a role in atherosclerotic plaque formation,"University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Feb 2024. Cheers
Could Don comment on this?
I believe there was a mouse study with isoleucine implicating protein. Whether people like to hear it or not, elevated LDL is what will cause ASCVD.
Thank you. So much great information. I have a question regarding IF, he consider fasting 48 hours, so I guess 16:8 is no problem for the muscle growth or maintenance if you plenty of your protein intake?
Yes, you are correct.
Dude. Im 64 lm gaining muscle every month on high protein,fat no carb, please provide chat with a clinical trial , I use a $30 rubber resistance band, with 18 bycepts, was 17 18 months ago , so?
More sakads,and legumes..
So Dr., If you were going to do OMAD, breakfast should be your only meal? That meal being steak and eggs.
I don't give a damn about increasing muscle mass. I'm 64. I'm not training for the Olympics. I do regular 36 hour fasts and occasional 72 hour fasts because (a) I'm willing to try anything that might lessen the risk of dementia, (b) lessen the risk of cancer, and (c) lessen the risk of diabetes.
Losing muscle mass is NOT an ideal way to enhance longevity. Muscle loss is a process of aging, not a benefit.
@@erickminorI’m well read on fasting and have years of experience with it. You may want to take a deep dive into it for yourself. Extensive research has been done and the benefits are typically phenomenal. If you’re trying to give your body an edge to fight disease there is nothing more effective.
There are physiological changes that are remarkable in an extended fasting state that compensate.
If you are worried about dementia, then you should be worried about replacing the muscle mass lost, every decade, and maintaining it 😂 muscle mass is equally important. Fasting properly does not reduce muscle mass in any significant way.
Losing muscle mass is crazy. Why not maybe just go for a long walk or bicycling every morning on almost empty stomach.
I tried to find the study referenced in the talks by Dr. Donald Layman, but I doesn't seem to have luck source it. Does anybody have a link to that?
I gained 40 pounds when my body was in full-blown acromegaly and hypothyroid. Now on medicine that maintains my hormones. Now I am trying to get the 40 pounds off easily and so easy to gain. I have 12 pounds to go. Then, I am still overweight. I will make new goals. I do have diabetes/ carb sensitivity. This problem was made by my acromegaly daily 3 injections. Which I see my physician on Friday. I can eat 10 grams of carbs and my BS zooms up to 275. Once my BS went to 275 and then it dropped quickly to 90. I was thinking maybe my diet was off. I do add protein. Acromegaly when active I lose my muscles to recover from balance. I fell a lot and broke my bones. I never want to be there again. Anyway, I am 70 and my hormones have been regulated now for 2 years. It takes your body a while to adjust.
His first few sentences lost me. It’s all bullshit about it being hard to gain muscle after whatever year! I have great arms for a 73-year old woman; I can do 95 and 100 pounds on the triceps press; 180 on inclined leg press (15 reps on any of those). You just have to eat right for muscle growth-whole raw milk and kefir are my secret weapon! And enough BBBE, of course! And I only started with weights about 3 years ago! If I could do it, anyone can do it (a person with a runner’s build (like my husband) may never bulk up a lot, but his muscles are stronger than my bulky ones! He can do farmer’s walk with 40 and 45 lb kettlebells; I can do 200 steps with 25 lb kettlebells and 100 steps with the thirty pounders. And he’s 76!
If you want to create new lean muscle in senior years, you absolutely can, and don’t let anyone tell you different!
Having a personal trainer helps!
Plus 3 years, it takes a lot of time, it isn't hard it just means being consistant over a long time
Calm down. He said that it is harder and takes more protein and more strength training, than for under forty folks. And you started from being a couch potato it seems. I've been lifting actual weights (not "machines") since I was 14, and I'm a 61 yo female. It is most definitely not possible to maintain or even gain over the long term (when you start out buff), no matter how much animal protein and strength training I do. (w/o HRT). I started my 80 mother on (no-impact) CrossFit...and since she had only been "walking", she saw huge gains in every aspect of her strength, health and appearance, too. And that was with only twice per week workouts for a couple of months and only slight improvements to her diet (she is extremely stubborn and carby).
Hate to bust your bubble, but you aren't the science, ma'am.
74 years old. Bin there done that my tee shirt says 13 days twice.. muscle and fat came back fast. Cancer regressed. This guy doesn't know.
🙋🏼♀️ If we have the lugol’s how many drops should we take? I’ve been doing 2 but seems that’s not enough? ⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
What is a “balanced” diet?
Hello what do you recommend for protein distribution for a 135 lb (11% bf DEXA) 42 year-old guy who wants to build muscle?
I aim for 1g/lb and still if I want to have 4 meals with high quality protein (but I count all protein sources except collagene) I will barely hit 2,5g leucine (or not hit 3g) especially if we need more for mixed meal.
I resistance train 4-5 times / week so the stimulus from it is there. Should I bother to reach the trashold at all cost? I can eat more protein or eat prot only 2-3 meals (4th only fruits for example) but I want it to be sustainable and not that weird. I cant imagine with that low bodyweight how I could eat less than 1g/lb (which is considered high!) and reach the trashold every time.
If i get bigger I should eat more anyway so I can count me as 150-160lb target but it will be probably years. And my macro balance would be weird as I do not need that much chalories and protein would be in higher % (no problem just limiting factor).
I am sure not I am the only one with low weight. :)
Im a 63 year old woman. Ive always exercised but in the last 10 years have dropped over 10 pds & am losing muscle. I started carnivore a few months ago so am eating lots of proteins but can't gain weight or muscle still. I do fast 12 to 14 hrs between dinner & breakfast. Should I not be fasting at all?
Start with 5mg of DHEA everyday
I will go down fasting max 10 hours. And more important how much protein a day you get?
@user-mo6qf6sh3s I feel like I'm getting enough. I eat 4 scrambled eggs & 4 or 5 pieces of bacon around 10 a.m. then 2 good sized hamburger patties with cottage cheese in the evening. Usually a piece of cheese or 15 to 20 gram yogurts in between. I'm not really sure how to count protein in hamburger or steak.
@@lisawhite2431/ Just do search with the type of meat and the weight. Ex: Protein in 1lb of 80/20 ground beef.
*** HELP ***
Hi Dr Lyon, I’ve been reasonably close to your “muscle centric” approach for about 1 year or so.
This week, we found out my wife (42 years old) had Grade 2 Breast Cancer. There are two or three in the left breast and some
Cells in the armpit Lymph Node they say. It is specifically, HER2 Positive and she is due to start chemotherapy in the next 2 weeks we think.
I was hoping to get some advise regarding what a general approach to diet should be during the process and maybe beyond. Immediately, we have got a few people saying cut out meat. She only eats chicken and fish and otherwise decent amount of vegetables and carbs.
Doesn’t drink now - rarely 1-2 wines maybe and was ex-smoker around 10 yrs back (few per day or socially).
Would really appreciate your thoughts on protein amounts, source, etc. Can I discount the notion that since mTor is activated - that this also encourages these cancer growths? Or perhaps limit glucose?
Thank you - any help is appreciated 🙏🏽
Important: Find all you can the clips of Matthew Phillips and Sarona Rameka.
God bless and protect you all,
Mike
@@michaelayalaathotmai thank you, I’ll find.
Cut out carbs, especially all sugar and processed carbs. Ideally go carnivore. Watch Dr. Anthony Chaffee's channel.
If a person can't eat dairy (whey protein included) can they get the same amount of leucine from a high quality vegan protein? For instance Vega Sport? Or should one supplement in the morning with extra leucine in order to hit the required amounts in the morning?
You might find the Don Layman episodes with Peter Attia and Simon Hill interesting. They talk about protein consumption for a vegan diet.
130g carb threshold to reduce triglycerides - is that NET or GROSS carbs?
can i have links to the 12 month low protein vs high protein study?
Is lysine supplementation effective for recovery from major surgery?
This is so great......the last part confirmed for me that I'm doing the right thing! I find it impossible to eat one gram per pound of my ideal body weight, which is 120. So I've been using an Amino Acid Complex and also some BCAAs to fill in the gap.Also lunch is often a smoothie using egg white protein, since whey doesn't work for me. I've hoped using all these, plus as much animal protein as I can manage to eat, is adequate, and now, if I understood Dr Layman correctly, it's fine. Maybe not perfect, but a good thing to do, in order to get enough leucine. Yay! Thank you Dr Layman and Dr Lyon!
Strength training is what you need
Just at a pound of red meat every day.
What kind of data can you point to to support your "no" claim that the meat industry is not contributing to harmful climate conditions?
At 65 (80% plants, 20% fish) I never worried about protein until watching your channel. Now, I load up in the morning (after the fasted 6k run but before CrossFit) with 56g of plant protein and (thank you chronograph) magically - get 2.2g leucine. I keep fat < 51g/day (
Plant protein is not very bioavailable. Eat a steak, shrimp or eggs
I sopped eating animal protein due to saturated fat and a high ldl cholesterol … (which reduced by 50%) a recent ct angiogram showed ZERO calcified plaque and “no vessel disease” and “Valves and structures” normal …. So … no great desire to swap “maybe” protein bioavailability for heart disease. As for bioavailability … all protein is broken down into amino acids and the. Reconstituted back into,protein .. I’ve seen no studies or data showing plant protein any less bio available than animal protein. I’m also really happy keeping methionine low cos I also don’t want cancer ..
@@jp7357 That may be lovely for a cow or a pig, except it isn't working for you, a human. You are living in the fallacies of the 80's. You know what does work...going carnivore and eating high fat.
@@vanillaghetto I love it when Idiots like you respond. Keep it up
@@vanillaghetto well, the would work well if I wanted to die of coronary disease, stroke, or one of a number of atherosclerosis related disease states. As a “90% carnivore” my ldlc was 200 and it’s now 65 since going mostly plant based my arterial inflammation markers have reduced from 220 to 65 … you carnivores are all about “inflammation” but oddly never get your actually arterial inflammation tested .. lp-pla2 and MPO. Easier to bury your head in the sand or just focus on hsCRP which is a useless marker of arterial inflammation.
Great interview! What r ur thoughts on HMB supplementation as a potential mTOR trigger?
🎉😮
essentially the same as leucine, just mch more expensive. hmb is a direct metabolite of leucine
Can somebody let me know the three in one magnesium the name of it that Leon Gabriel is advertising, please
Loving this conversation!
When you speak about 100/120 gr of protein per day do you refer to animal protein only or plant protein counts as well?
You'd have to eat more plant protein due to less bioavailability
This guy was really great
No chance subscribing to this channel, due to in content adverts... I have premium for no adverts, and still the channel finds a way! 🤦
Dry fasting is muscle sparing and dang near awesome and way easier than water fasting, as a fairly well-muscled 55-year old female carnivore 1 year.
That has been my thought. How long do you dry fast?
@@douglaslegvold9215 i just completed a 72hr dry fast, I’m 12 hours into refeeding/just drinking water now for the next 12 hrs, then onto diluted broth and kefir. This was my second DF ever, my first was last week of 48hrs. Both dry fasts were exploratory and planned on being shorter but they were so much easier and better for me and my life-long digestive issue that I continued. I’ve been water fasting and intermittent fasting for over 11 hours. I spent a lot of time outside in the cold and snow and hot post-equinox sun. The quantum biology principles of gathering electrons from the ground and the sun are key to keeping energy up. Whenever I was indoors I would lag and get tired. Outside I’d hike for hours, shovel snow, sit in a hot tub. Both my dry fasts were soft dry fasts (water on skin).
I think the scientists sitting in fluorescent lit labs and clinics are missing out on a giant piece of the optimal health puzzle and that’s junk light being toxic to a circadian living being. Our mitochondria is involved in an electron transport system. It’s electrons they need, gathered from the earth and the sun, cold/hot therapy. The toxic light and artificial light post-sunset and non native emf dehydrate the mitochondria. Another giant piece is deuterium. The dry fast, by avoiding water intake, promotes the body to draw metabolic water from fat cells, that’s why it’s gangbusters for permanent weight loss. The metabolic water is deuterium depleted, aka structured water or 4th stage water or EZ water (see Gerald Pollack scientist who discovered this and Carrie Bennett who describes it well). So for 3 days I excluded any potential deuterium from coming in while my body spent time depleting deuterium. Animal products are very low in deuterium while fruit and plants are very high. So many preparatory and refeed schedules include fruits and juices that are super high in deuterium (like coconut water) and oxalates (orange juice) that the dry fast benefits are stunted.
I see some major blindspots in the high protein space as well as the fasting spaces- oxalate dumping phenomena, deuterium, quantum biology. Everyone is in their bubbles confirming their biases. I’ve heard Gabrielle Lyon state that circadian rhythm protocols are on her list but she hasn’t done them yet, even the simple stuff.
Thanks for asking!
Amazing talk, thanks a lot
He said leucine is a waste of money on its own, but who actually does that outside of a lab? The amino mix I take has 4g of leucine plus all the other BCAA's, so in that situation is the answer Yes?
His answer seems a bit too academic and not very practical.
Can somebody let me know the three in one magnesium the doctor Gabrielle is advertising, please 59:47
😂😂 questions yes or not ❤️, thanks for all info , very informative
If you’re older, I have found supplementing with HMB and DHEA has worked well for me
Hi Douglas, what benefits have you gained from HMB? And over what time frame?
Thanks for your help.
@@alankelly349 testosterone from 200’s back to 600’s. Increased strength and muscle 💪 definition. Fasting helps a lot too.
Why is stake and brocolli bad??