Hmmm. 3/4 is always counted in 3. 6/8 may be counted in 6 but is often counted in 2. Now, 9/8 is almost always counted in 3 and I've played 3/8 counted in 1.
I think it's more than just the feel, more specifically it's about the stress pattern. Which of the six beats are being stressed: is it 1, 3 and 5 (3/4) or is it 1 and 4 (6/8)
even in math they are not identical all the time. they are only identical in regards to equations. you cannot say that 3 pies out of 4 are the same as 6 pies out of 8 though. in music 3/4 means that you divide the time in 3 quarter notes while 6/8 means that you divide the time in 6 eighth notes. thats why we use 4/2 in music which means that we divide the time in 4 half notes. saying just "2" is meaningless, even though its equal to "4/2"
If you’re friends with a drummer, at some point during your friendship, you’ve been unwillingly invited to partake in time signature discussions. Although the examples are usually played on countertops and dashboards and completely impromptu 😂 Great breakdown my man!
I always thought 3/4 would typically have a waltz feel. That’s different from the three sets of two and more like the feel of the 6/8 demonstrated. I guess I’m still puzzled.
I agree with you. 3/4 is never counted in anything other than 3. It's true that 6/8 may be counted in 2 or 6 but I think that 9/8 is closer to a 3/4 feel.
It’s how you phrase it that makes it a waltz. You can practice 3/4,6/8 and 9/8 as roll as well. The very basic for waltz is to play Kick and double on the snare so if you sound it out it’s like boom bop bop so to it count Accent on the 1, 2,3
@@992ras Downbeat is always on the one. While 6/8 is possible it's also quite fast. There's a REASON why it's usually in 3/4. Quarter notes are LONGER than eighth notes. I don't recall ever playing a Waltz in 9/8. It is possible but again that's technically three eighth notes to the beat and nine to the measure. Just easier to write it in 3/4 with three quarter notes to the measure.
Keep in mind the time signatures have nothing to do with tempo. A waltz twice as fast might feel more like a common 6/8 to you. That why I think it’s a better practice to feel how the beats are being subdivided, but at the end of the day… they are are both mathematically the same, so they are also technically interchangeable
@@SopranoPizzaJMFNJ like he said it’s how you phrase things both 6/8 and 9/8 can also be Afro-Cuban depending on how you phrase it. Yes a waltz is triplet but not all triplets are a waltz. So like in Reggae you plays 9/8 but you phrase it like it’s 4/4 like the One drop beat which you take out the down beat on one and accent the up beat. Accent just means that part has more dramatic effect to your playing. But everything is about feel
you could feel two bars in 3/4 as a single bar in 6/8, but you probably won't feel a single bar in 3/4 as a single bar in 6/8 because the former is 2+2+2 while the latter is 3+3
The literal difference is the note that gets the beat and the beats per measure. It's 3 beats per measure with the quarter note getting the beat vs 6 beats per measure with the 8th note getting the beat.
I always ditch the denominator and only focus on the beats per measure. Jamming with friends, we just tell eachother, "this song is in 6s", or "the next part's in 7s". Eliminates all debate from our jam sessions.
THANK YOU for distinguishing the “practical mathematic” difference from the “common practice” difference. I get so riled up when people imply they are only and always two different feels. A time signature tells you how much of what kind of note. Therefore if I need to show on the sheet music that I’m going to change time sigs from 5/8 to a pulse of 6 eighth notes, well I’d functionally prefer to write it as 6/8 even if the feel according to “common practice” is 3/4.
This is why listening to other instruments is important while playing, because you can figure out the phrasing of each section and it makes deciphering time signatures much easier.
Would be embarrassed to admit for how long I thought 3/4 and 6/8 were the same despite having played both time signatures within the context of his explanation (well done 👏🏼). Then, one day I was like, “wait a minute, I’m dumb” having come to this realization. 😆🤷🏻♂️
Also: 2/2 = X/Y Where X is the amount of beats and Y is the type of "note" in a bar. 2/2 means 2 minims in a bar. Similarly: 3/4 = 3 crotchets 6/8 is 6 quavers, which is technically still 3 crotchets, but this is important when writing a piece of music and sometimes in transposition (I think, I forget), it affects how you write a note.
Personally, as someone who is teaching themself to do music composition (sheet music) I personally like 6/8 times. I think you have more potential with 6/8 times creatively speaking. To explain, you can write longer riffs and rhythms and come up with cool syncopations.
In my understanding (and I think I'm just rephrasing the same thing you said), people feel them differently. That is, if you stick a 6/8 on the front, a musician will interpret the music differently from if you put a 3/4 on the front, even though nothing actually changed. My parents (musicians) are adamant that there is a difference, although they cannot explain it, whereas I'm certain there's no actual difference, except in implication, and tradition.
That is exactly right. What musicians usually use to gauge is what I would call "common practice" or how something commonly feels and the time signature that got associated with that feel over time.
I feel as a person who thinks in terms of objectivity this is something I will never get, care about, or understand. I'll probably just make my own system
it's more than that, though. triplet subdivisions could easily be mistaken for 3/4 as well, but notice how he treated the downbeats differently. of course we're all taught that weak beats are upbeats and strong beats are downbeats, but in practical applications, we often control beat strength on a much more granular level and just never talk about it. when playing 6/8 as subdivided triplets, you have two downbeats - 1 and 4. however, to lock into 6/8 and ensure it in no way feels like fast 3/4, we tend to play 1 as a weak downbeat, and 4 as a strong downbeat. there is a clear strong pulse on 1, but 4 is always stronger. it gives the swaying push-pull of 6/8.
The easiest way for me to think of it is just “when does the beat repeat itself?” If you’re hearing a pattern that repeats itself every 6 beats (ie. kick, hat,hat,snare,hat,hat)it’s usually in 6/8 and if you’re hearing a pattern that repeats itself every 3 beats (ie. Kick,hat,snare.kick,hat,snare) it’s usually in 3/4. Obviously this isn’t ALWAYS the case, but more often than not it’s enough to judge what time signature the song is in.
They are very different meters. They happen to contain the same number of 8th notes, but the similarities end there. 6/8 is a Compound Duple meter: two beats per measure and each beat is divided into three parts. 3/4 is a Simple Triple meter: three beats per measure and each beat is divided into two parts.
The helped. There’s a drum beat I can’t get by ear because it’s very awkward and I’m just gunna listen to it and transcribe the audio to sheet music one cymbal / drum at a time lol. For those interested the song is called “Nuff Respect” from the game gitaroo man. The best game ever lol. Edit: And I’ve come to conclusion it’s in 6/8
Sure. Just keep in mind that Mathematically they are identical. You can certainly write 6/8 using 3 quarter notes or 3/4 as 6 eighth notes. Tempo has no bearing on the time signature so at the end of the day it’s subjective.
At first I thought this was supposed to be about polyrhythms and I was getting so mad about the lack of polyrhythms before I finally realized it wasn’t
I figured it'd be kinda the same. Not because I'm a musician- far from it- but 3/4 is literally the smaller version of 6/8 in fractions. Math really did help me in that regard XD
3/4 would be a reduced version of 6/8 in fractions... But Time signatures in music are not the same as fractions... but they are still mathematically equivalent... so there are some parallels.
you gotta be careful with that. It's a triple meter. But you can play triplet rhythms inside that 6/8, but the 8ths notes in 6/8 are just straight 8th notes. It's the time that feels like a triple... not the rhythm.
@@Thedrummersalmanac I figured it was something like that. It’s more about me than you. In fact, I really loved one of your videos I just watched where your set was in a total white room. Excellent! My brain had no excuses to wander around and get distracted.
@@musicdaddee6578 I miss that room.. moved about 6months ago. In this video you are seeing the new room I had just moved into with those God awful, yellow walls lol… so I was still renovating. I have it in shape now, but infinite white will have to wait until my next build. Lol
9/8 and 3/4 are similar. 6/8 and 2/4 are related. The difference is in triplet feel vs straight quarter note. Likewise 4/4 and 12/8 are related. 6/8 is accomplished in two metronome beats 9/8 is three metronome beats just like 3/4
Love that it’s literally an identical fraction and the only way to “tell” is by FEEL.
correct... and even then, we are just talking about common practice.
Hmmm. 3/4 is always counted in 3. 6/8 may be counted in 6 but is often counted in 2. Now, 9/8 is almost always counted in 3 and I've played 3/8 counted in 1.
I think it's more than just the feel, more specifically it's about the stress pattern. Which of the six beats are being stressed: is it 1, 3 and 5 (3/4) or is it 1 and 4 (6/8)
@@SopranoPizzaJMFNJ These are all true... and when you count 6/8 in 2..How are you subdividing... 😉
even in math they are not identical all the time. they are only identical in regards to equations. you cannot say that 3 pies out of 4 are the same as 6 pies out of 8 though.
in music 3/4 means that you divide the time in 3 quarter notes while 6/8 means that you divide the time in 6 eighth notes.
thats why we use 4/2 in music which means that we divide the time in 4 half notes. saying just "2" is meaningless, even though its equal to "4/2"
3/4: Dooby dooby dooby
6/8: Doobidy doobidy
3/4 triplets: doobity doobity doobity
@@dylanhoward718thats 9/8
Note to Self: Use calculator next time you’re playing the drums
math rock be like
If you’re friends with a drummer, at some point during your friendship, you’ve been unwillingly invited to partake in time signature discussions. Although the examples are usually played on countertops and dashboards and completely impromptu 😂
Great breakdown my man!
I wish I had a drummer friend 😭
Dude, that’s literally my brother!! 😂😂
every time i watch this man i’m just imagining the time he spends behind the drums. he knows like EVERYTHING
I’m not gonna like this cause you have 69 likes. And that’s pretty kewl
Being honest and fair: as a musician, these things normally take 5-10 minutes of searching and reading to find out.
I'm sure he does know a lot, but the thing he's talking about in this video is pretty common knowledge amongst musicians.
Thank you, Jonah Hill!
💀
Hahahaha
Michael Keaton
exactly what i was gonna comment 😡
Lmfao!!!!!
I always thought 3/4 would typically have a waltz feel. That’s different from the three sets of two and more like the feel of the 6/8 demonstrated. I guess I’m still puzzled.
I agree with you. 3/4 is never counted in anything other than 3. It's true that 6/8 may be counted in 2 or 6 but I think that 9/8 is closer to a 3/4 feel.
It’s how you phrase it that makes it a waltz. You can practice 3/4,6/8 and 9/8 as roll as well. The very basic for waltz is to play Kick and double on the snare so if you sound it out it’s like boom bop bop so to it count Accent on the 1, 2,3
@@992ras Downbeat is always on the one. While 6/8 is possible it's also quite fast. There's a REASON why it's usually in 3/4. Quarter notes are LONGER than eighth notes. I don't recall ever playing a Waltz in 9/8. It is possible but again that's technically three eighth notes to the beat and nine to the measure. Just easier to write it in 3/4 with three quarter notes to the measure.
Keep in mind the time signatures have nothing to do with tempo. A waltz twice as fast might feel more like a common 6/8 to you. That why I think it’s a better practice to feel how the beats are being subdivided, but at the end of the day… they are are both mathematically the same, so they are also technically interchangeable
@@SopranoPizzaJMFNJ like he said it’s how you phrase things both 6/8 and 9/8 can also be Afro-Cuban depending on how you phrase it. Yes a waltz is triplet but not all triplets are a waltz. So like in Reggae you plays 9/8 but you phrase it like it’s 4/4 like the One drop beat which you take out the down beat on one and accent the up beat. Accent just means that part has more dramatic effect to your playing. But everything is about feel
I still can’t really tell the difference, but this was the best explanation I’ve found so far so thank you. 😊
you could feel two bars in 3/4 as a single bar in 6/8, but you probably won't feel a single bar in 3/4 as a single bar in 6/8 because the former is 2+2+2 while the latter is 3+3
The literal difference is the note that gets the beat and the beats per measure. It's 3 beats per measure with the quarter note getting the beat vs 6 beats per measure with the 8th note getting the beat.
6/8 has more of a pendulum swing feel to it
i like to think to 3/4 as waltz and 6/8 as a 4/4 with waltz rythm
Agreed, I call 6/8 long 4 because you can subdivide by 4. So the kick and snare are on the long 4 count.
It seems so simple, but I had so much trouble with it until just now!
Been in music/drumming for approaching 20 years… this is one of the best & well thought out ways of looking @ 3/4 vs 6/8 I’ve seen. Great video!
Been trying to learn time signatures for awhile and this was very helpful. Subscribed cheers
Welcome to the family !
I love the way he explained everything as well as demonstrated. Most tutorials are one or the other
That’s the first time I’ve ever gotten a straight answer for that question. Thank you so much!!!!
I always ditch the denominator and only focus on the beats per measure. Jamming with friends, we just tell eachother, "this song is in 6s", or "the next part's in 7s". Eliminates all debate from our jam sessions.
I already knew this but I appreciate you educating others, in a fun and quick way.
great explanation cause i'm not to savy when it comes to timing... only now i'm trying to learn drums. 🥁🤪👏
THANK YOU for distinguishing the “practical mathematic” difference from the “common practice” difference. I get so riled up when people imply they are only and always two different feels.
A time signature tells you how much of what kind of note. Therefore if I need to show on the sheet music that I’m going to change time sigs from 5/8 to a pulse of 6 eighth notes, well I’d functionally prefer to write it as 6/8 even if the feel according to “common practice” is 3/4.
Great lesson! Inspired me to create a tricky new groove!
Dude, great advice! Simple but opens up the mind to a different approach. Thanks, Broski!
No worries 😉
This is why listening to other instruments is important while playing, because you can figure out the phrasing of each section and it makes deciphering time signatures much easier.
It does help ! Thank you man, New Orleans AEJ
Right on!!
Articulate and pleasant. Good teacher
best explanation yet thank you i finally understand this
Glad it helped!
Best! Explanation I’ve ever heard on the topic
Great job of explaning as always Jay!
Thanks my friend!!
Excellent explanation 🥁
Wow that is an awesome explanation, thank you!!!!!!
I hated music 🎵🎵 but I now like music 🎶🎶... thanks 👍 I appreciate your help....😜
You can also fit a 4/4 polyrhythm in 6/8 when I want to change it up mid song. Really cool feel
Then you're just playing in 12/8.
Here in latinamerica we deal with 6/8 all the time when playing folklore 😊
Thanks for the leak!!
Jonah hill is not only a good actor but also a awesome drum teacher
Best explanation I've heard on it!
Thank you!!!
It's so awesome to see phrasing. Just changes something up entirely.
Those are used very much in Flamenco music. Changing in one song now and then.
It is different feel.
3/4 feels asymmetrical and 6/8 feels symmetrical.
Would be embarrassed to admit for how long I thought 3/4 and 6/8 were the same despite having played both time signatures within the context of his explanation (well done 👏🏼). Then, one day I was like, “wait a minute, I’m dumb” having come to this realization. 😆🤷🏻♂️
Also:
2/2 = X/Y
Where X is the amount of beats and Y is the type of "note" in a bar. 2/2 means 2 minims in a bar.
Similarly: 3/4 = 3 crotchets 6/8 is 6 quavers, which is technically still 3 crotchets, but this is important when writing a piece of music and sometimes in transposition (I think, I forget), it affects how you write a note.
Best explanation hands down. 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Good stuff. Very interesting. Understanding time signatures is a weakness of mine.
Personally, as someone who is teaching themself to do music composition (sheet music) I personally like 6/8 times. I think you have more potential with 6/8 times creatively speaking. To explain, you can write longer riffs and rhythms and come up with cool syncopations.
In my understanding (and I think I'm just rephrasing the same thing you said), people feel them differently. That is, if you stick a 6/8 on the front, a musician will interpret the music differently from if you put a 3/4 on the front, even though nothing actually changed. My parents (musicians) are adamant that there is a difference, although they cannot explain it, whereas I'm certain there's no actual difference, except in implication, and tradition.
That is exactly right. What musicians usually use to gauge is what I would call "common practice" or how something commonly feels and the time signature that got associated with that feel over time.
Or Based On 12: 3/8, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. Each "3" is basically a quarter note feel.
Great explanation!
That was very helpful actually.
68 Linds itself to triplets with subdivisions for 3-4 can still be done with quadruplets and not sound out of place
Best explanation to separate blues and waltz from each other.
I feel as a person who thinks in terms of objectivity this is something I will never get, care about, or understand. I'll probably just make my own system
it's more than that, though. triplet subdivisions could easily be mistaken for 3/4 as well, but notice how he treated the downbeats differently. of course we're all taught that weak beats are upbeats and strong beats are downbeats, but in practical applications, we often control beat strength on a much more granular level and just never talk about it. when playing 6/8 as subdivided triplets, you have two downbeats - 1 and 4. however, to lock into 6/8 and ensure it in no way feels like fast 3/4, we tend to play 1 as a weak downbeat, and 4 as a strong downbeat. there is a clear strong pulse on 1, but 4 is always stronger. it gives the swaying push-pull of 6/8.
Thank you! So useful ☺️
I always think of 6/8, 9/8 and 12/8 as an alternate way to write triplets.
Or... 2/4, 3/4 & 4/4??
The easiest way for me to think of it is just “when does the beat repeat itself?” If you’re hearing a pattern that repeats itself every 6 beats (ie. kick, hat,hat,snare,hat,hat)it’s usually in 6/8 and if you’re hearing a pattern that repeats itself every 3 beats (ie. Kick,hat,snare.kick,hat,snare) it’s usually in 3/4. Obviously this isn’t ALWAYS the case, but more often than not it’s enough to judge what time signature the song is in.
Great explanation, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
You taking all the damn fun out of it man🤣
Perfect explanation
Way to break it down thanks all drummers need to do that for our students.nice Job dude 😎🥁☠️
Its pretty simple.
6/8= 6 x 1/8. - means just put 6 eighth notes in a row.
Similarly, 3/4= 3 x 1/4. - put 3 quarter notes in a row
I thought WHAT A NICE DOOR MAT until he hit the HiHat 🙈
They are very different meters. They happen to contain the same number of 8th notes, but the similarities end there.
6/8 is a Compound Duple meter: two beats per measure and each beat is divided into three parts.
3/4 is a Simple Triple meter: three beats per measure and each beat is divided into two parts.
Fantastic Explanation! Thanks :)
As a guitarists, thanks for this. I know time signatures aren't rocket science but they aren't intuitive and these breakdowns make it real easy.
It helped tremendously!!! Tnx alot
The helped. There’s a drum beat I can’t get by ear because it’s very awkward and I’m just gunna listen to it and transcribe the audio to sheet music one cymbal / drum at a time lol. For those interested the song is called “Nuff Respect” from the game gitaroo man. The best game ever lol.
Edit: And I’ve come to conclusion it’s in 6/8
one word: SUBDIVISION
Puff your chest and say...SUBDIVISION
A fantastic explanation. Great job.
super helpful!
Inconceivable
here’s a simple guide: 3/4 is a headache and 6/8 is cool
Well done.
Piano Man is an EXCELLENT example of 3/4 vs 6/8
The drummer switches a lot and it's an example I give my students.
Brilliant explanation man
Thank you 🙏
@@Thedrummersalmanac np haha
Another valid one is think of 6/8 as eigth notes(or quaviers) and 3/4 as a quarter note (or semi crochet)
Sure. Just keep in mind that Mathematically they are identical. You can certainly write 6/8 using 3 quarter notes or 3/4 as 6 eighth notes. Tempo has no bearing on the time signature so at the end of the day it’s subjective.
Finally after scrolling so many..this taught me the best❤❤❤
That’s a brilliant explanation!!
My ass tried getting that hair off my screen by his left shoulder, instead of paying attention to the difference
At first I thought this was supposed to be about polyrhythms and I was getting so mad about the lack of polyrhythms before I finally realized it wasn’t
i always go by whether the music feels like it's rocking back and forth (6/8) or just kinda flowing (3/4)
In case anyone is still confused and needs it worded differently, 6/8 is two groups of three while 3/4 is three groups of two
Correct… subjectively
Just got off an 8 hour session on audience segmentation in excel.
It's better I rewatch this tomorrow morning.
I would argue that 6/8 is focusing on 8ths but 3/4 is generally a waltz time. 6/8 is usually the triplet swing, 3/4 is just a simple 1-2-3-1-2-3
I also do the same way of counting to tell 3/4 or 6/8. I also love doing the 6/8 blast beats.
I figured it'd be kinda the same. Not because I'm a musician- far from it- but 3/4 is literally the smaller version of 6/8 in fractions. Math really did help me in that regard XD
3/4 would be a reduced version of 6/8 in fractions... But Time signatures in music are not the same as fractions... but they are still mathematically equivalent... so there are some parallels.
@@Thedrummersalmanac I mean, you did explain it as such. There's a reason why you're the musician and I'm not :D
Usually, people mistake 6/8 for a very slow 4/4.
Man that little circle on the wall kept making me think that there was hair on my screen
You sound exactly like Dallas Jenkins lol (not an insult at all lol just noted and I'd like to know if you agree)
that's actually pretty interesting
That's really cool, keep up the good work 👍
Yes it does indeed help. Thank you.
Other way around i'd say, 3/4 is a waltz, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3
A waltz is a style typically written in 3/4… but not the only style that uses 3/4. And technically a waltz could also be written in 6/8.
Brilliant
6/8 can also be, based on the piece conducted in two to give more of a waltz feel
I always think about 6/8 as triplet patterns
you gotta be careful with that. It's a triple meter. But you can play triplet rhythms inside that 6/8, but the 8ths notes in 6/8 are just straight 8th notes. It's the time that feels like a triple... not the rhythm.
Anybody here listen to Brandy 👀 O have an internal debate with “Saving All My Love”…6/8 or 3/4? I’m leaning towards 6/8.
I love music obviously but all I can do is look at that draped curtain on the pole. Aghagh
Studio was still under construction… I had just moved from ATL to Baltimore 😉
@@Thedrummersalmanac I figured it was something like that. It’s more about me than you. In fact, I really loved one of your videos I just watched where your set was in a total white room. Excellent! My brain had no excuses to wander around and get distracted.
@@musicdaddee6578 I miss that room.. moved about 6months ago. In this video you are seeing the new room I had just moved into with those God awful, yellow walls lol… so I was still renovating. I have it in shape now, but infinite white will have to wait until my next build. Lol
My man’s got the curtain with no window in the back😂😂😂
Curtain wall… music studio 😉
9/8 and 3/4 are similar. 6/8 and 2/4 are related. The difference is in triplet feel vs straight quarter note. Likewise 4/4 and 12/8 are related.
6/8 is accomplished in two metronome beats
9/8 is three metronome beats just like 3/4
My yardstick had always been 3/4 is waltz like (take it to the limit) and 6/8 swings (this boy) but I'm a theory deficient simple bugger! 😀
So, I _can_ play an African bell pattern in a waltz! 😁
Bembe’ or Nanigo are good examples.
So the way we label time signatures just isn't expressive enough to tell you what it practically means. I hope they update this in my lifetime...
_just a cloud away_ vs _happy birthday_