UPDATE!!! White Sands Footprints 2: The Quickening - New Dates and Methods on a 22,000 Year-Old Site
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2023
- We got what I asked for quicker than expected! The team working on the White Sands site in New Mexico have provided dates based on terrestrial pollen as well as Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) methods to refute the claim that the original dates were distorted by the reservoir effect.
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My first White Sands video: • 23,000 year old Footpr...
On how carbon dating works: • Radiocarbon Dating: Ar...
Abstract:
Human footprints at White Sands National Park, New Mexico, USA, reportedly date to between ~23,000 and 21,000 years ago according to radiocarbon dating of seeds from the aquatic plant Ruppia cirrhosa. These ages remain controversial because of potential old carbon reservoir effects that could compromise their accuracy. We present new calibrated 14C ages of terrestrial pollen collected from the same stratigraphic horizons as those of the Ruppia seeds, along with optically stimulated luminescence ages of sediments from within the human footprint-bearing sequence, to evaluate the veracity of the seed ages. The results show that the chronologic framework originally established for the White Sands footprints is robust and reaffirm that humans were present in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum.
When I was attending University of Colorado Denver in 2009, one professor who is an expert in Neandertals, had a map showing Neandertal sites. One was in eastern Siberia far away from any other site and was dated about 35 kya. I saw that it was in a direct line to the Bering Land Bridge, and since I knew the bridge had opened nearly 36 kya, I asked what the chances are that Neandertals may have crossed into North America following herd migrations. I got an instant "Absolutely not! No evidence!" response. I didn't buy it then and still don't. I am waiting for the day when Mousterian or transitional lithic technology and other evidence comes to light. I have the train of thought that humans are humans. If they crossed 15 kya, then why not 35 kya. Humans would not have checked their chronometers and said, "Nope. We gotta wait. It's not our time yet." If I had the time to volunteer in the search for older sites, I would. Keep the great videos coming, Nathanael!!
Well, this report shows evidence that people were already walking in North America, as far south as New Mexico, between 20 and 22 thousand years ago. It would be cool if they found some South American tribe who had a bunch of Neanderthal DNA. I know people have looked for Polynesian DNA, and white people DNA, among native populations, but IDK about Neanderthal. You'd think 23&me, or whoever designed the software actually, would make a little caveman icon pop up in the results, if the sample had Neanderthal. I'd consider it to be a badge of honor
@@GizzyDillespee saw Dizzy in 1990? I have been a jazz lover ever since. Killer screen name. Got a Japanese lp of "Bird &Dizz"
❤❤❤
I hear ya. The question goes even deeper. Why didn't _Homo erectus_ cross the land bridge? Given how the species existed, they were in Asia when those bridges were periodically open. They had the technology for cold weather. They had water craft (if not actual boats). They had the technology to do it. Yet - aside from that one site in California, well two sites? - no one has yet found in incontrovertible presence of Neatherthal or earlier. The same arguments also work for _H. heidelbergensis._
Look up Russian wildwoman zana.she had kids who had kids= subsaharan dna.
Cross verification with two different methods is pretty solid evidence to me.
The amazing new methods of dating are astounding to me. Both geology and archeology have developed so many new, more accurate techniques.
can anyone else imagine a world where you could go barefoot and not have to worry about stepping on shards of glass and metal and other manmade trash
Or invasive modern human introduced Puncture vine aka Goatheads.
Fascinating, thank you for the explanation. I wonder what population sizes were this early and what ultimately happened to them.
My suspicion is that they were merged with the potentially larger populations that came in 5000 years later, but that's a question for the geneticists.
There are papers out there that estimate the bottleneck got as small as a few hundred individuals.
We're still here! 😉
It is quite possible that these very early people didn't contribute very much to the gene pool of indigenous folks living today -- but were perhaps swamped by much larger later migrations, who are the ancestors of modern indigenous people. This is suggested by the genetic evidence, as I understand it -- although that could definitely change.
Even if living indigenous people do not descend from these super early folks, they have still been in the Americas for something like 16,000 years, which is a very long time.
Imagine how great it would be to teach history through archaeology. A much better idea imo lol.
I’m loving the dates! More to discover is a gift.
*Right there with you sister!*
@@nun_bel_eever Nun🥰✌️💗🤘
I think it is very doable since textbooks are going the way of the dodo 🦤 in favor of digital learning for classrooms.
@@qui-gonjay2944 I know for me objects of reference to a specific time in history, helps me to conceptualize the lives they may have lived. Digital learning tools can definitely support such educational additions. Great suggestion.
Excellent work indeed. I find the paleobotanical analysis most interesting, as it is a great way to paint a bigger picture of the environment so long ago.
Thank you for acknowledging Indigenous people and the dating explanation for those who lack scientific understanding.
According to our oral, historical stories, we have always been here. I am hopeful other, much older sites will be discovered. ☮
I'm waiting with baited breath for your report and take on this one!
My place in Oregon was a big Native American village just over one century ago. The place is covered with lithic flakes, stone tools and preforms. I just built a fence and unintentionally pulled up a bunch more. It’s amazing how they could form basalt into such useful forms. Lots of jasper, chert and agate too.
Excellent work indeed. Has anyone done any paleobotanical analysis of the 'soils' found in the same strata as the footprints? If so, it would be fascinating to find what the climate was, as well as the flora and fauna at the time of the footprints Greetings from the beautiful Hudson Valley.
Yes I mentioned the pollen species found in the sediments.
Amazing to think about people walking around over 20,000 years ago. Could never have imagined the world we live in today.
I am convinced that the truth of human history has too long been hidden and love todays independent minded archeologists finally shining more light on the subject.
Paywalls are a dildo.
Thanks for a cogent and concise explanation of the technical publication. I try to keep abreast of current developments in science and tech. Explanations like this one are very helpful to untrained folks like me.
It seems likely that now a basis for more potential funding to assess lake stand height in that timeframe could determine shoreline configuration topographically suggesting potential habitation sites to be investigated. The apparent new, older, timeframe could inform core work to find stratigraphy at potential sites for habitation, and tools or dateable material. Likely, such sites would not be too distant, given the behaviors suggested by the trackways. And, there are probably more detailed footprint stories yet to be uncovered across these ancient mudflats. Exciting times!
I am an archaeology student in the area. I will see what I can do to get more archaeologists and other specialists out there.
Yes, further dating of cultural sites with tools present could do a great deal to help doubters be just a little more open to possibilities of funding more intensive pointedly investigative clarification of these people.@@pandakicker1
Thank you for this update on White Sands! I find it really valuable to get your take and perspective on topics like these.
Hope you have good room service. Spent four years on the road in the early 90's. It's a different way of life.
Thanks for having a really straight forward, objective explanation. I find this whole topic with the footprints absolutely fascinating. I mean so many ideas we’ve had will have to change
Thanks Nathanael - always lucid and informative - never speculative for the sake of speculation.
Thanks for putting this out so fast when I saw the articles about the paper the other day I was hoping you would give an explanatory update haha
Good update and expiration of this topic. Keep the information coming.
Thanks, nice seeing you again -- i really appreciate your insights.
Excellent video as usual. Hoping for more about the southeast, especially northern Alabama.
The moment I saw this in headlines I couldn’t wait for a Nate Fosaaen double check
Thank you so much for an interesting and informative talk about the White Sands footprints. Personally I have gone for the later date theorys of the peopling of the Americas, as most early humans were smarter than history books tell people. I very much enjoy your talks!
Excellent job of explaining stuff that interests any inquiring mind!
The story the prints tell is a great piece to the land of the lost. Fascinating
Great update. Thanks for the break down.
Louis Leakey at his dig at Barstow, California thought that we would eventually find that there had been humans on this continent, North and South, for 40,000 years. Looks like we are well on our way to that.
fascinating subject. thanks for sharing your insight and expertise.
In my mind, over hunting can take place but it will be localized. As always, good information.
I think over hunting may have occurred on a large scale but it was with later migrations.
I was born in White Sands, New Mexico and this is so amazing to me. It truly is a special, magical place.
@Timothycar • You are living on stolen land and a descend of colonizers...and probably transphobic
@@Chris-us6pk lol what a star
This was a nice update on the footprints in New Mexico. With the date within about 1000 years of 22,000 years old, I wonder if people are still questioning the Meadowcroft dates.
Thanks for the update!
Love your videos man. Thanks
Good for you, to educate us the less educated on issues affecting dating of these foot prints.
Now, the topic of first into North America can be further opened to further constructive dialogue.
20,000 or so years ago is a very long time compared to the European “foot print” upon arrival about 450+ years ago. The influences of migration, settlement, climatic change really makes it hard to know where to look for early inhabitants.
I look forward to listening to your videos. THX
This is why I laugh when a whitie comments that their family has been here for X hundred years or X decades. My reply, "Wow! That's almost 20 thousand years!"
Thanks, that was the best explanation of carbon dating!
Glad it was helpful!
Interesting man . I have never bought the land bridge as a way of population of north and south America . I really believe that people were here already through sea faring peoples and some proof is being offered through recent finds and discoveries. Nice coverage on the prints . Thanks for the share. :O)
Well done!
Very good video I learned a lot!
Always a fascinating topic. 220.
This is so exciting! Humanity is amazing. Somehow we conquered the biggest body of water and it's way older news than we thought.
Very thorough...very good!
Great update thanks!
I am glad we can finally put the clovis first theory to rest.
Very interesting. I saw the light energy dating tech on the latest NOVA about Stonehenge from about a year or two ago. I think it’s how they dated the original stone circle that the blue stones are assumed to have come from =]
Very informative , I’ve been just opening studying ancient America mostly through Graham Hancock and Randal Carlson . I have found a channel from a Navajo Traditional Teachings a guy named Wally very informative of their views . Enjoy your stuff you correlate with all them .
I am glad that you are interested in this subject, but Carlson and Hancock will steer you nowhere but away from reality. I suggest looking elsewhere.
Aside from Carlson and Graham , who are the catastrophism ideology are backed by Antonio Zamora expert in the Carolina Bays not to mention Agassi, Bretz and a few more . Also I have to mention the longevity guys History with Kayleigh a Swedish gal that’s sharper than a razor to many more to mention . My point is I’ve read both sides and and believe your all right just have the time a bit wrong .
Every little bit counts! As per usually, bra, thanx for the update!
Awesome. Thank you.
I wish my old anthropology/archeology professor George F. Carter (Pleistocene Man at San Diego - 40,000 years ago) were alive; he'd smile and say, "I told you so.". I distinctly remember 1966, or '67 taking the "choppers" over to the radiology lab behind the Johns Hopkins Power plant, and when we got the results back, they showed human-made spalling, and the radiocarbon around them said about 40kya years.
As far as I'm concerned this puts the final nail in the coffin of Clovis first. RIP!! It seems reasonable that people may have been here for thousands of years before these footprints were created. Of course until proof is discovered this is just theory. Either way, it's exciting stuff!!
I know it sounds weird but I love that area. I even hold acreage at Red River gorge ❤ I live in Miami traveled and all I'm ready to come back and shut it down myself! my family home is near serpent mound & my daughter's half Fl seminole. Interesting huh😜🤙
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Help me understand here, are you saying there was sufficient organic matter left from these grass seeds and pollen spores after >20k years to test for carbon dating? That seems hard to believe.
Happy indigenous Peoples Day (as is every other day)!
Yaaay people day! Oh wait… you only mean the indigenous peoples of the Americas? How non-inclusive of you. Just because my family is indigenous to the Mediterranean region doesn’t mean we aren’t indigenous. ;p
same as Lake Lewisville Texas 22000 pre Clovis site but they turned that pre paleo site into a dump and housing addition
Great job explaining this!
Thanks! And I appreciate the plug!
@@NathanaelFosaaen Anytime!
Bruh it's you🫵🤪
Happy National Fossil Day!
Woo Hoo!
You slipped it in without fanfare, but you clarified an important point, a misconception that I've held. It's not the archaeologists who are reluctant to recognize the evidence and advance the science; it's the historians. That makes sense. Those guys have a history of mis-story.
They're historians. It's not their field. The pre-litterate human past is outside their scope.
I heard there is a site in Chile that has been dated at about 21,000 years old. I think it is mainly post holes. It is part of why some theorize some traveled mostly by water.
I have a question:I noticed the striking similarities in woodland culture pottery and architecture, is there any theory about working trade routes to central Mexico? Any books on the subject?
Glad your channel popped up in my suggested viewing! Thanks too for relating this info so even a caveman (me btw) could understand it. ;-) (a nod to an old Geico commercial)
👍 Thx NF!
Fantastic explanation thank you. Seems like the population grew remarkably slowly between whatever time Humans came ashore (22,000+ya) and when we start seeing large amounts of evidence. We have almost ten thousand years of sparse evidence, and then suddenly quite a lot, unless I'm mistaken. Interesting question. This hemisphere may have been an especially dangerous place. As the ice started to retreat it stands to reason that North America would experience the greatest degree of disruption. Lake Missoula flooding and such. I wonder how the Mississippi behaved as the ice melted? Massive widespread flooding would certainly cause a lot of preservation bias.
Has there been any effort to locate the campsite these early humans were based out of? How far off could it have been?
Do the prints have dermal ridges?
Awesome video. I really appreciated the technical explanation of the dating methodologies. I find archaeology fascinating but have no training. My views are going to be sophomoric, but there are still a ton of unanswered questions: how many migrations were there? Did the earliest people die out or survive? Did Clovis represent another migration? Why was Clovis technology so widely adopted? Big questions that might not ever be answered but humanity is amazing, and I have no doubt that the truth is more complex than we can imagine.
These are actually very good research questions! Figuring out the waves of migration is still a huge issue for paleoarchaeologists. At this point I'd expect no fewer than 4 major migrations. Clovis technology was an innovation that happened within the US. It spread north from down here. It was successful because the large cutting surface and narrow profile made the spears more effective for taking down big game. It may have also been something of a status symbol to be able to make them.
@@NathanaelFosaaen I have tried to think of Clovis tools as the shiny red sports car of that culture. It is much more sought after and status based that more flint resource friendly styles. Every young hunter wants a Corvette not a Civic. Paleolithic bling!
The mystery is not why Clovis industry became popular, continent-wide, but why it vanished so suddenly, continent-wide, right after the comet strike. Could Clovis have been primarily a valuable, high-status trade good? Coping with environmental catastrophe would have left less attention to spare for esthetic indulgence. Maybe they were too valuable to use for hunting until after the comet strike, and then were used when found by desperate survivors because the trade network had collapsed. Are Folsom points less labor-intensive, or less wasteful of raw material, or more repairable?
@@user-om2os5yr6iI already have a video about this, but it didn't "disappear." It turned into the nearly identical Folsom culture, Cumberland culture, Suwanee-Sinpson culture, and Redstone Culture. All of which are nearly identical in the forms of their manufacture and only slightly different in terms of their settlement patterning.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Thank you, will look.
I wonder where the suitable sites with tools etc to 20000-23000 BC data are.
I think this is a solid development. I thank you for reporting it.
Theories are just theories and are often proven wrong. So, some guy or gal comes up with an idea, gets credit for it, that idea becomes a "norm", and at some point, the glory of the theory disappears entirely. I see this over and over in the mainstream sciences.
Anyone who thinks that science is the final answer that academia is the house of gods, should read Forbidden Archaeology to see that within that world, politics and narratives play a significant role and obfuscate our true history. It's disgusting how egos work their way into it.
Do we really have two histories? - One of creation, and another of evolution? That is funny right off the bat.
In all of this, now that tens of thousands of sightings and encounters have been documented, does Sasquatch fit in? At eight to fourteen feet in height with completely different proportions measured it seems completely anomalous. Which history does that fit into? What are the genetic studies telling us? Do you see either religion or academia getting involved in this matter? Why not?
Our history has been split into two opposing narratives and they reside side by side for the masses to "believe" and point fingers at each other. That in itself should wake up a few. Division is the way to get people to get involved with infighting for long periods of time. Divide and conquer. The truth is that this particular anomaly in itself completely destroys both sets of narratives entirely. If either religion or academia went after this, it would destroy the division of ideas known as creation only and evolution only. Genetics don't lie. As this works its way out into the open, both sides will definitely have a lot of explaining to do.
This idea that North America has only been occupied by humans since the end of the last ice age is only as good as the person who took credit for that "idea". When we have a historical record that talks about anomalies such as Sasquatch, and talks about where and when these things happened, and we completely ignore those records calling them myth, what does that say about the gods in academia? When the genetic studies are done, academia will STILL ignore it. Religion will STILL ignore it. There is too much at stake, too many lies and narratives. Too many careers lost over honest work that didn't fit nicely into the narrative to apologize for. The lies are self-perpetuating. And the MYTH we are supposed to ignore unfortunately continues to pop up in very real ways with a myriad of people who have these encounters by the thousands. We can't have myth if it is absolutely real, now - can we?
There are footprints that are extremely difficult to explain all over the world. Some of them are EXTREMELY large. The evidence under the carpet is now thousands of feet high, and the carpet is but a little tiny cover for a few items at the very top of this mound, this mountain. It is time to call the evidence what it really is - evidence. It has become embarrassing for both academia and religion to continue these charades. The narratives are frayed and worn. The battle for the last word is over. Let history and evidence speak; it has a lot to say.
Would you please do a video about the new anthropogenic fires killing off megafauna paper?
Citation?
Thanks for the update.
Speaking of overhunting, do we have other verified examples other than New Zealand?
Overhunting extinction is common on islands, very rare on continents, for what should be obvious reasons. But extinction rarely has a single cause. They add.
7:23 so there were ancient humans walking in the same area or using the same migration/nomadic route or path (idk if nomadic route is even a thing lol) over millennia?? That’s so freaking cool. Maaaan this is awesome! I wonder if some day we’ll find evidence of a different human species having reached the Americas at one point. I mean, if it was only a small group and really far back, over this massive an area, evidence may never be found.
Alsooo… does any of this give credibility to the Denisovans theory that they’d made it from Europe?
This is really cool
The ice free corridor would have beem a freezing swamp that would have been very difficult to traverse, now look at how far people would have had to walk to get through it.
Nathanael, I was thinking that perhaps the Clovis technology may have been developed by paleoindians in situ in North America when megafauna arrived through the ice-free corridor. This would explain why Clovis tools date newer towards the north and older towards the inland sites. What do you think if this hypothesis?
The megafauna were already here for the most part, but yes, clovis technology was developed somewhere in the southern part of the continent.
I saw one suggestion that this lends credence to the theory that the Bering Strait/Clovis population migration post-dates the initial peopling of the New World, and that the latter replaced the former (a la Yamnaya). Thoughts?
replacement is unlikely. An integration is much more probable.
In California alone there are many examples of human history predating Clovis. The table mountain find during the gold rush or the type of canoe construction by the native Channel Island culture. If you understand the abilities of the navigational skills of the ancient Polynesian cultures it is apparent that the oceans have been traveled by humans for a very long time. Who needs a vanishing land bridge?
The problem I have regarding this theory, during my time at Oxford it was HIGHLY discounted with too many items being arranged to meet a certain narrative. Most agreed this should be 4300-4000bc
If that's what people at Oxford think, then the people at Oxford don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
It can be pretty appalling how far behind the current state "science on the street" can be. Appreciate your explanations of the process, particularly of the elements of questioning results as being a valid, even necessary, part of science.
Im not convinced the early migrations were over land, its much more likely they were using small boats and going along the coasts and between islands, as is proven by the aboriginals arriving in australia over 60000 years ago. There isnt any reason why they couldnt get around the coastlines into america the same way and if anything im surprised they havnt found evidence for people arriving in the usa that far back too yet.
After that I think they used rivers for transportation, the Rio Grande is not far from White Sands. Wood and animal skin boats would completely vanish, leaving no evidence!
@@franklopez2969 thats possible, following the water is a good plan to find new lands to live in, but theres no reason they coupdnt have taken a few thousand years to walk that far inland. Its just 1 known date of when they wwre in that area, its not proof they only just arrived in that continant, infact it strongly suggests they arrived far earlier.
@Frank I talked with Chris Moore about that a little in the interview we did this spring.
This is what I always thought: bounce along the coast-line, no need for an interior land route. They could shelter in many little nooks and crannies along the way. It would become a way of life and, after many generations, the coastline would lead them to America.
If the Polynesians could travel THOUSANDS of miles in the Pacific Ocean and occupy all those Islands, including Easter Island, then others could use a small boat to skirt the ice sheets and arrive in the America's. That's my opinion anyway, and doesn't seem that far fetched. Oh, and possibly from Europe as well !!
They have the added geological data Of being between dated Ash falls
OSL dating sounds brilliant. What a great check.
It's a solid backup.
The dating seems pretty secure even though I’ve still seen people trying to claim they’re illegitimate. My biggest problem is the lack of lithics in association with the trackways. Some of what I’ve read says the trackway showed clear association of people with megafauna i.e. hunting. One would assume that some sort of tool or flake would be alongside in the stratigraphic record.
No, the majority of the footprints are of children. The megafaunal tracks only support the suggestion that the two were contemporary. Nobody is arguing the tracks were made by hunters.
@@NathanaelFosaaen the national parks service website has a paragraph in their article about one of the sets of prints that they surmised was stalking a giant ground sloth.
What is the composition of the layers !
Gypsum and quartz sand.
❤❤❤ from overseas..there are more than 1 sign,that people crosses the oceans for more than 20ka.. 😮😊
Food for thought. We developed independent of Africa. This is the old world. The oldest earth crust is Mt Roraima in Guayana. Now "denisovan" remains close to the area 25,000 years old. The soil may not sustain fossils that long as in dryer climates.
Wow wow wow wow wow wow. Wow!
So megafaunal extinction hypothesis by over hunting still holds some water if you attribute this to an extremely efficient Clovis hunting cultures who were newly arrived at the time of the extinctions. If climate is ALSO changing and Clovis peoples are using fire to further increase their hunting efficiency as game becomes increasingly scarce, then we have an accelerating decline and collapse of megafaunal populations from multiple causes.
Not arguing that the dates are wrong -- it's exciting to hear of this age. But as far as dating the "sand" or quartz particles -- white sands is made of gypsum, not quartz. Or was this b4 the gypsum was laid down?
You still get aeolean quartz in the mix.
Thx a lot
Dude, you look a lot like Greg Allman in the movie Rush.
Maybe e-book textbooks will allow schools to keep up with current science. I'm in college and wow are textbooks out of date.
The idea that humans killed off the megafauna like every single animal is preposterous
So was the idea that people with dark skin were a less evolved sub-species of hominin. History is filled with the negative effects of ideas that seem obviously perpostorous to 21rst century minds.
It happen in New Zealand
Would be like in Africa the humans killing off every single megafauna specie in a relatively short period of time and that was suppose to be 11-12 thousand years ago! Silly!
11-12 thousand in North America!
Absolutely not absurd. Likely. Mammoth kill sites are over represented in the archeoloical record.
Also, this new evidence says nothing about migration routes, population densities, reproduction rates etc etc. Many isolated pockets could of come and gone in many different ways. Maybe it wasn't before Clovis came that population densities were big enough to wipe out the megafauna. It happened in Australia, Asia and Europe. Humans came, megafauna died. We do unprecedented damage everywhere we go.
Boating along the Aleutians and/or Beringia, eating pinnipeds and kelp, or something? Doing some fishing. Wow.
It seems highly likely to me that populations were really low prior to a larger push in to N. America associated with the Clovis folk. So maybe that larger, later influx did actually have a significant impact on megafauna -- in other words, I dont think it _necessarily_ follows that hunting wasn't a major factor just because _some_ humans had been here since the LGM.
So where do we look for potentially even _older_ evidence? Lets say 25k to maybe even 30kya? Coastal migration evidence is mostly going ro be under water, sadly. But river systems south of the ice sheet would have been attractive, one would think. Maybe up the Columbia -- heck, maybe right in the Portland Basin; I doubt anyone has seriously looked at LGM strata in the Portland Basin. ... I guess a possible problem with that could be those megafloods that came crashing in there multiple times ~18kya. Could have destroyed cultural stuff.
The sand at White Sands isn’t quartz. It is mostly gypsum. zit has different properties than quartz. The sand if our desert is mixed and can contain ancient marine fossils.
That's correct, but a minority of the sand was quartz which allowed for the OSL dates.
There is something odd about the toes on those footprints. It is not just that the big toes seem proportionally too large. The smaller toes are spread out too far.
People who don't wear shoes that confine their feet have wider feet and stronger toes than those that do. Also, some groups simply have wider feet (I.e. Pacific Islanders) or longer 2nd toes. There's a lot of variability.
@@bendy6626 Thanks fot pointing that out. I did a little bit of research and confirmed what you said is true.
Just makes my mind wander. Could these have been the absolute first people ever to set foot and eyes on this land? What was there motivation on going there? Were their feet cold? Lol. But yeah man, so awesome.
They are predated at Cerutti by 110,000 years. Different species, maybe.
@@user-om2os5yr6i no.
No offense, but why does someone walk anywhere? Especially with kids? Start there.
@@bendy6626 That's a simplistic view. Kids don't migrate thousands of miles across counties and continents.These people either did it for food or threat. Maybe even beliefs. Who knows. But saying it was merely curiosity is silly since not all people do it. Perhaps you should study nomadic tribes and start there. Food security is an issue if you don't know where you're going.
@@_MikeJon_ People walk for lots of reasons. Do you only walk for food security or out of fear?
Carbon absorbs radiation from ground water. Sandstones are porous unless fused or compacted. Radiation contamination lowers the age of radiocarbon dates.
Thank you so much for doing this. This is without a doubt (for me anyways) the first piece of absolutely credible, irrefutable evidence that people were in the Americas before Clovis. I would be skeptical of drawing too many conclusions though. This evidence says nothing about population densities, migration routes, reproduction rates etc etc. It's still entirely possible we killed off the megafauna.
Perhaps it was many different migration events throughout time. Maybe many isolated populations came and went and were unable to establish themselves enough to make a dent on the megafauna populations. Until Clovis.
How do we know that they are pre-Clovis? Have tools or something been found to put them in a separate material culture?
Clovis only lasted for a couple of centuries. this is about 8000 years before Clovis points were invented. They're obviously pre-clovis.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Centuries? How many?
Great video, btw
@highmolecularweightRDX not more than 600 years. It was super short.
@@NathanaelFosaaen Geez, there really were more round spouted cast iron pans. It must have been a big population boom to leave behind so many points. Weakening megafauna must have fed them, even if humans weren't primarily responsible for their extinction.
I had a discussion with someone who asked me to name some Clovis Firsters. Hrdlika was the first to come to mind, He said that since Hrdlika died in 1943 it was ridiculous to believe that he had slowed the acceptance and research on Meadocroft and Gault.
That would be me and you did not do well in that conversation. Folsom and Clovis work, supported by the development and refinement of C14 dating in the 50s and 60s, put to rest the claims, often associated with Hrdlicka, that humans had only been in the Americas for a few thousand years. So, I remain confused how Hrdlicka would be the first person to come to mind as a Clovis Firster.
@@jackrifleman562 I am glad to see you again! I am certain over a cup of coffee we would find a lot to agree on.
On Hrdlicka and his progeny I will quote from James Adovasio speaking about Pre-Clovis sites, "There was at least one Ales Hrdlicka on the faculty of every major university anthropology department and several on...major..journals"
@@charlessmarr7107 Except that he wasn't identifying Hrdlicka as a Clovis Firster. He was speaking in terms of a generic stubborn mindset among some that was similar in intensity to Hrdlicka's early 20th century belief that humans had only settled the Americas over the last few thousand years. That was the dominant state of knowledge going into the 1930s. The development and refinement of folsom and clovis research over the next few decades resulted in the development and acceptance of the Clovis First model with C14 dating providing absolute dating. C14 dating wasn't available in Hrdlicka's day and it rendered Hrdlicka's perspective moot and gave his "progeny" no leg to stand on when it came to criticizing research much later that moved the timeline back even further. It's odd to portray him as a Clovis Firster in the 70s when in fact he was probably a major influence on slowing the acceptance of early research on Clovis First almost a century ago. If there were any of his progeny that were clovis firsters then it was because they abandoned his timeline and accepted the new one developed by the very people who opposed Hrdlicka's perspective.
On a related note, I studied anthropology at three major universities during the height of the Clovis First debate and saw research on Monte Verde presented at one of them. Don't recall anyone who was Hrdlicka-esque in their intensity of opposition to pre-Clovis research. So, while I sympathize with the people like Adovasio who had to put up with a lot of crap I think that some of their comments, or selective quoting of them, require a bit of scrutiny.
If you want to read and quote from a legit Clovis Firster from back in the day I would suggest devoting your interest and energy to C. Vance Haynes. You're welcome.
Jennifer Raff of KSU is a Clovis Firster. She backtracked on Twitter the other day, admitting these footprints do change everything.
@@humansubspecies No. She is quite clear on her position on the matter in her most recent book
"Origins."
"We know today that this scenario [clovis first]--which dominated American archaeology for decades is wrong."
The primary issues are now the exact timeline and routes of pre-Clovis migration that are being debated.
Here’s another clue on authenticity/accuracy of the dating.
Centuries of sedimentary deposits are populated with an 800 year span of chronologically dated seeds implies the dating quality & methodology was precise & accurate enough to show age differences between seeds that match the sedimentary sequence. This does not prove all ages weren’t displaced by non-atmospheric carbon but it does show consistent quality carbon dating work from the lab including seed sample collection and handling process.
No doubt this lucky find is not from the very first person to set foot in North America. There were probably people around for thousands of years before this. Footprints for 800 years makes me wonder if there were permanent settlement/villages in the region