Oldest oral history story according to my internet cheat.... Palawa Aboriginal stories from Tasmania recall geological and astronomical events that occurred 12,000 years ago, placing them among the oldest recorded stories in the world
I felt a magnitude 5.8 earthquake 12 years ago and have yet to stop talking about it. If i saw Mount Mazama pop off my children's children's children would hear about it.
Any mention of Hurricane Michael still sends me into a tirade about my experience and the experiences of others I knew, catastrophic events are passed down for generations and we remember the trauma of our ancestors through those stories
As an American teen, I lived in Taiwan for a year due to my dad's job, when they had their 7.7 magnitude earthquake in 1999 & still vividly remember how it felt! It was my first & only real quake (not counting aftershocks of the original.)
I was living in Cusco a few years back and felt a 7.1 earthquake that happened in Arica, Chile, I believe. I woke up to my bed scooting across the floor. Thought it was a dream at first.
Klamath Tribal member and long time subscriber here. Thank you so much for talking about my tribe and our legends. We owe you a thanks! Great content as always and I can’t to see more!
Stefan has a beautiful way to talk about a topic and show respect and appreciation and amazement for the protagonists oh his stories. I think this makes him stand out among many others archeologists. And I say this being one...
@@StefanMiloWe should than you for your wonderful work. You never see other stuff of the same high quality aniwere on TV (thinking of certain Netflix poppy shows...)
The fact that some legends of modern tribal communities of beasts and monsters roaming the wilderness are based off of real life mega fauna that existed and that their distant ancestors interacted with is pretty cool.
In brazilian folklore we have "Mapinguari" its an enourmous tall, smelly, hairy beast with long nails, its believed to be folklore about the Giant sloths the indigenous were witnessing thousands of years ago
As an indigenous person and social studies teacher I want to say thank you for making points of reference to oral historical reference points for Aboriginal peoples which in many instances do not allow deviations from the exact way a story is told and handed down like a library book one knowledge keeper after another.
I had an english teacher in the 1980's who stressed this to us about oral stories. She said that the community would protest and correct the speaker is anything was said wrong or left out.
If I remember right, they sing the stories as songs in unison so that everyone learns them the same way and can correct eachother whereas other cultures tend to pass oral histories between singular specialized individuals.
Hey Stefan, there are very old stories here in Australia. But some just can’t be dated. They don’t necessarily relate to a specific event that can be dated. But here in Victoria, bass strait flooded somewhere between 7-8k years ago. This put pressure on the tectonic plate and throughout the western district of Victoria, many volcanoes erupted which changed the landscape forever. Some indigenous people were recorded telling stories about these eruptions. In regards to the eel traps you mentioned, there are older ones in the Australian alps that go back to the last ice age, at least. Huge channels and water management systems. Also, eel traps have been found in central Australia that used to be employed in the large inland lakes - which are now completely arid. And I think the oldest art on earth has been found here, with the stone engravings in Tasmania probably the oldest man made art on the planet. A great book on this is by an amazing ethnographic and cultural researcher, Josephine Flood, called ‘archaeology of the Dreamtime’. It’s a shame that most people who are interested in this area of research don’t take more interest in what has been discovered in Australia. It’s just seen as a bit of an aside to the grand picture of humanity, which I believe reflects the European primitivist discourse that permeates academic thinking. So it’s great to see you referencing Australia’s indigenous people on your channel.
I've heard of stories on the east coast of Australia talking about islands off the coast that used to be coastal hilltops before the ocean level rose to the current level. Which would have to date them to the end of the last ice age!
@@ThalassTKynnI love that example, and that it's "confirmed" by I think it was charting the land there? Mental thing is I've told ppl about it and it's literally science but ppl still never like "oral histories can't be accurate" 🙄
Didn't they find indigenous rock art of giant marsupials that went extinct 50,000 years ago? Aboriginal Australian's culture is truly amazing, and its one of the planet's oldest in continual use culture.
Yes, they have also found a stone axe embedded in the spinal column of a diprotodon, an extinct giant wombat, about the size of a rhino. Theres a great book on this by a very respected Australian scientist, Tim Flannery, called Anyone who thinks that there haven't been any warnings about climate change should read this book. He predicted everything going on at the present moment in that book in the early nineties. @@robertreynolds442
In the world of UA-cam where extremely unqualified people are peddling false history, fake facts, guesses, conspiracy clickbaits, your channel is a breath of fresh air. Thank you Stefan.
Interesting you mentioned Neolithic tombs in Ireland, Stefan. In medieval times , the mounds in county Meath such as Knowth, Dowth and Newgrange (it was not then known that they were megalithic tombs) were known as the “Hills of Incest”. Recent DNA studies of the bodies found in these discovered megalithic tombs showed that they were the product of incestual relationships, probably to conserve a royal or aristocratic bloodline like in Ancient Egypt. It’s been hypothesised that this naming is due to some folk memory or oral history that dates back to the times of these burials, around 5500 years ago!
That is so cool! It's amazing what we've learned about these peoples in just the last couple decades: they went up and down the Atlantic coast spreading a megalithic tradition inherited from earlier post-Mesolithic groups; they liked their boats and did a lot of sailing; and BOY HOWDY did they keep it in the family. I bet there were some goofy-looking MFs at the top of the aristocratic pile back then.
In one story the seasons had stopped, which might be a way of saying that some climate change catastrophe had occurred and crops failed. In order to restart the seasons the king slept with his sister, which was understood to be a great sin, but they did so in order to get the daily solar cycle going again. They were successful and presumably their son was the man buried in Newgrange. The site where they committed incest is said to be Dowth passage tomb and was earlier known as 'the hill of sin' in Irish.
The DNA in those tombs also shows they aren’t related to modern Celtic peoples, but instead the ancient Anatolians (modern day Turkey) who also were ancestors of the Egyptians. Celtic folklore is also loaded with stories of the fey who lived in Ireland before the celts arrived, who lived “under hills and mountains”. A lot of that is probably stories of a long-forgotten people who built the barrows.
There is even argument about celts. The celtic culture comes from europe but the gaelic languages survive along the western seaboard. Brittany, Cornwall, Wales aka Cymru, Cumbria. Scotland and Ireland. Though the Scots moved from Ireland. Aka Dalreida.
It's worth looking into the oral histories from Haida Gwaii! This detail didn't make my video on the Haida PNW people, but some of their oral histories appear to make reference to glaciers and other climate-related events that some archeologists have linked to occurrences over 10,000 BP. Pacific Rim Archeology's 2005 book "Haida Gwaii: Human History and Environment from the Time of Loon to the Time of the Iron People" is a great resource for this.
I live inside the caldera of Mount Aso in Japan. Here, we have a legend about how there used to be a huge lake surrounded by the outer rim of the caldera. Then the god Takeiwatatsu-no-Mikoto kicked a gap into the outer rim so all the water could flow out, which is why people can now live inside the caldera and grow crops 😊
Volcanic ash produces extremely fertile land. And volcanic ash itself can be super useful in other ways. The main reason why Roman concrete is so much better than modern concrete, for instance, is because the Romans mixed ash into their concrete mixture, greatly improving its structural integrity. Volcanically energetic areas are terrific places to live…until the moment they aren’t. 😁
Hi Stefan, great video! The oldest story I know of is about the Plejades, which in many different cultures all over the world (from indigineous peoples in Africa, Australia and the Americas as well as in ancient European mythologies) are called the "seven sisters". In many, but not all of this stories, these seven sisters are pursuit by either one or three hunter(s), which are linked with Orion or the three stars which form Orions belt. To save the sisters, they are put on the night sky. Of course, up to this point it could be a simple case of convergent story-evolution. However, another thing that links all of this stories is the fact that only 6 stars are visible in the "seven sisters". Therefore, there is an explanation to the question what happened to the seventh sister in all the stories. But these explanations are different in every culture. Modern observations of the Plejades-Starcluster have shown that one of the six bright mayor stars are infact two, slowly passing each other from ouer point of view. Simulations have shown that between 80.000 an 70.000 years ago, the two stars would have started to get to close to be distinguished by even the best human eyes. So the story of the seven sisters and their cosmic safeguard seems to be at least older than 70.000 years old and therefore could be even older than the Diaspora of Homo sapiens out of Africa... Of course, all of this could just be a huge coincident, but I think that just the possibility of one story old enough to be just "human" in origin is realy awesome ^^
Ray Norris and Barnaby Norris, 'Why are there Seven Sisters?', in Boutsikas E., McCluskey S.C., Steele J. (eds) Advancing Cultural Astronomy: Historical & Cultural Astronomy. (Springer: 2021), pp. 223-235. @@RexoryByzaboo
This is what I was looking for. It's Amazing to think there is a story almost as old as humanity itself. A story that was told around campfires in our ancestral homeland and then travelled with us, in all directions, out across the world.
Oh man, I love you for this, Stefan! I'm a PhD researcher in archaeology specialising in prehistoric artificial memory systems (i.e. technologies developed to record, store, & transmit information in oral traditions). I'm so glad you covered this, as people tend to view the written word as having sumpremacy over oral traditions, but that's because people don't understand how they work or how reliable they can be at retaining accurate information over long periods of time. I think it's really important to highlight the intellectual lives of indigenous people, as well as prehistoric people, as it can help change perceptions of how those groups think & innovate - and that can help combat bigotry. So, thank you for this. These stories are a remarkable & fascinating part of human history. It's these kind of things that made me want to be a prehistorian. This was a really well researched & presented video. Only thing I'll add is that the Gundjitmara story won't necessarily have been passed down through 1000+ generations. One strategy employed in oral traditions to reduce the 'telephone game effect', where repeated information gets distorted, is to pass stories from grandparent to grandchild, rather than parent to child. Therefore, halving the number of people who have to retain & pass on the information. Also: I am Do the Damn Research! on Twitter. I haven't posted in a long while, so you might not remember me, but we follow(ed) each other & have interacted a few times. There's a real dearth of quality SciComm in our field, which is what contributes to the popularity of people like Hancock & Ancient Aliens. Those beliefs can have dire political consequences. People like you & Miniminuteman are doing valuable work! Keep it up!
What do you mean about dire political consequences from people like Graham Hancock? I don't consider his theories to be absolute truths but it's interesting to hear others ideas about the ancient past and I think it's healthy for people to consider alternate possibilities to the standard school of thought. After all there's been so much change in these fields just over the last few decades, like when I was young the accepted view was that humans had only occupied the Americas for about 5k-6k years at most and now it's known to be at least 3 times that long that humans have been here. Anybody that suggested that kind of occupation 30 years ago were considered wacko fringe pseudoscientists.
@@JackParsons2You're correct that it's important to have diversity of thought and ideas in fields like this, especially when specialists are known to sometimes develop a certain tunnel vision in how they approach the evidence. The problem with Hancock is that he brooks no contradiction. Anytime contradictory evidence is brought up on social media to show his hypotheses (they don't rise to the level of theories) less probable than he makes them out to be (which tends to be close to 100% on nowhere near enough real evidence) he targets them with his horde of fans to shout them down. On some level, he must know that his evidence isn't good enough to support the level of certainty he presents. That's why his approach has been not to present better evidence, but to attack archeology as a whole with what amounts to conspiracy theories. What archaeologists are supposed to gain from "suppressing the truth" isn't clear. Books and media deals are a hell of a lot more lucrative then research funding applications. So he sows mistrust against an entire profession for no real reason other than to promote himself, and gets people to believe a lot of - oh, let's be real and call it nonsense - instead of the genuine, and absolutely fascinating, history of our kind.
They don't need to retain and remember anything at all at least not everything at all; god provided them a story book, a science book perhaps even; the stars. You only have to teach the method of how to read the stars; and the stars will always provide you the same story. Just look up, and read the stars. >contributes to the popularity of people like Hancock & Ancient Aliens. Those beliefs can have dire political consequences. Dire political consequences? Eh? What, some funding goes away to some other folk who have a different interpretation of things than you? The folks with the ancient aliens who the hell takes them seriously anymore; they ran their nonsense into ground when they were done claiming every pre-historic sight as aliens, and to think of a way to keep the cashcow going, they went after historic buildings and constructions, recent historic buildings and constructions; as in the Roman Empire that have actual written texts on exactly who, why and how they build the damn things as "ancient aliens did it". They're crackpots, even if some group of people believing them enough grew large enough to give them funding, they're bullshit would still fall apart against scientific rigor, and I wouldn't even consider it such a bad idea; peer review and only peer review / a science field isolating itself so easily produces an echo chamber; they need a good kick in the butt from time to time from complete outsider that by people with control over money are taken seriously enough, you take them seriously enough to genuinely engage with them to both increase to robustness of your own position, as well as highlight the cracks, and if the cracks are aren't in the position, then they are in your argumentation techniques, and the only way to improve them, is to go up against people who fundamentally don't agree with you, for real. But what about Graham Hancock!? The man has changed his positions and ideas over time as new evidence came to light. His first idea of the catastrophe was Earth Crust Shift, which was an legitimate scientific theory at one point, mind you; he has rejected this idea as evidence of a more than potential impact event during or before the Younger Drias; rose. In the past, he was much more about a truly advanced civilization; today, not so much; he still wants quite an advanced civilization, still much more advanced that I would be willing to go, but his positions and ideas adapt to new information... like a scientist, unlike some people I can name. Like you, and Stefan and The-Chillian down below; because, YOU ARE PROVING GRAHAM HANCOCK RIGHT, RIGHT HERE!!! Graham Hancock and Archeo-astronomers looked at the symbols on Gobleki Tepi's pillars, and said, this animal symbols represent the constellations; the same constellations we find much later. And every single last one of you, went, "That's stupid, that can't happen. Just think of the telephone game! There was no writing! There's absolutely no way they could have that same idea and knowledge and that get passed down to later civilizations! No, 7 to 8 thousand years that's way to much time! How stupid!" 37,000 YEARS! Four to five times as long, completely intact. And that's a volcanic eruption, evidence of which will have been gone as nature took back the destroyed land inside of 1,000 years. The stars, the very same constellations, still shine above us to this day. You are of a literal field of archaeology that studies the various methods with which people could pass knowledge down the line all-but-intact for tens of thousands of years, and Graham Hancok and several Archeo-astronomers posited something only fraction of that time, you kept your mouth shut, and the archeologist, professional and amateur, erased your entire field from archeology to blacken a man and other scientists saying anything that could support his supposition. The guy below is saying, "What would be gained from 'suppressing truth', isn't clear?" I wouldn't know either, but maybe you folks can answer the question, since you're not just suppressing the truth, your suppressing and denying not just the truth but an entire field of archaeological research, your OWN in your case, in order to blacken the man, and anyone who has any position that even remotely supports his position. You are proving him right, you're doing it! You're doing it right here! Not surprising really. If you're blind to your own faults, going around with the ridiculous notion, "That Oh, no, how dare this one human suggest, that this other group of humans I'm a part of, aren't perfect, infallible, incorruptible saints who can do no wrong, and can never be wrong! How evil, he thinks us but humans!" You're not going to see when you are being corrupt, false, close-minded, lead around by your nose by money donors. You are doing it right now. Someone who wasn't closed-minded, someone who wasn't corrupted by whether it is emotions, or money, or whatever, would go, "Corrupt, fallible, closed-minded, possible, we are human, if you have evidence of that, please give it to us, so we have a shot at doing something about it." Not, go, "Oh, my god, he's making people distrust us, make them think we are but human, how dare he! All the plebs might not just except our decrees of what is true right away, and demand us to show evidence! The dire political consequences! No!" "I am wrong. I am always wrong. I can never be right. I can only ever be less wrong," that should be the mantra that goes through every scientist's head when they get up out of bed every morning, and be repeated regularly throughout every day, every criticism no matter where it comes from, should be responded to - not with derision, or with screams of "lack of trust" (if there's anything that engenders lack of trust it is that very thing) - but with care, respect, evidence and reason, not insults, not fear-mongering, not quick thoughtless put downs. If I were Stefan and I'm making a video about a story that stayed intact for 37,000 years, when I put down a man just a few months earlier for story that according to me can't last a fraction of the time, I'd scratch my head, and go, "Ooh, I may have been a little to quick to pull the trigger on that one; Hancock and those archeologists that agreed with him, they may have had a point, I should probably look closer into it, and make a much in depth video on the subject." By the way, as for memory systems, don't condemn the natural ones before looking into it; god's picture story book is right above everyone's eyes.
Would it be possible that people native to the area figured out the geology? Ultimately that's how we know there was a volcanic eruption because we figured out the geology. Some tools were unavailable to people of the past, but maybe people skilled at reading a landscape could have figured out what there was an explosive eruption, by recognizing a caldera and knowing that explosive volcanic eruptions can form a caldera. It just feels like that native Americans with geological curiosity and insight should be considered possible. And I hope it isn't prejudiced to bring up the possibility.
@@fallingphoenix2341 Nah they were pretty ignorant about things like that. You can't discount how much superstition and mystical beliefs can cloud peoples judgement about things. There's groups of people that believed that we were all living on the shell of a giant turtle and others that believed they all flew up from a hole in the ground fully formed, they aren't even trying to be logical about the forms on the landscape around them. And to be clear I'm not saying this only in reference to the native peoples, this applies to everyone around the world back more than about a century ago, everyone was just exceedingly astonishingly ignorant about the most basic things.
Just returned from Morrisons with a bag of Crisps and Haribo. As I sat down, I noticed that Milo had uploaded a new video. It felt like everything fell into place perfectly.
@@haggismcbaggis9485 Of course! I go for Haribos Tangfastics, Pop Chips Sour Cream, and, of course, Highland Spring Still water to help keep those calories in check.
I LOVE that Stefan got excited seeing a chipmunk. That's a lot like a being thrilled to spot a seagull while walking along the coast. It's great. People should never lose their sense of wonder or excitement for such things. But it is particularly endearing when it is someone so knowledgeable and when he's walking around Crater flipping Lake.
*My theory: The reasons why oral tradition persisted in some cultures: - Perhaps the absence of writing persisted due to physical isolation so storytelling remained relevant. - Physical isolation facilitated cultural integrity. - Perhaps storytelling became as important to personal development as say, getting a high school diploma today - no classrooms, no textbooks, so rather than being a luxury, people had to keep it going to educate the young in all things, which included certain "truths."
I think some sort of complex culture has to develop around oral tradition for it to remain accurate over large periods of time and that is probably why we only see a few examples of it, like Aboriginals and this specific example in the video.
@@hedgehog3180 Look at some of the oldest stories in Western tradition. Things like the Illiad. And likely the earlier parts of Genesis. And these traditions date no where near as old as some of these. Micheal Wood's In Search of the Trojan War had one episode that featured a Turkish and an Irish story teller. Both singing or telling stories that go back what we would consider a long time.
I think rather than physical isolation, it's more about cultural and geographical stability. The Gunditjmara have been part of larger trade networks in Australia for thousands of years and were by no means isolated from other cultures with different stories, languages and products. But the story of Budj Bim clearly shows a strong cultural continuity planted in more or less the same location. Although migration and population disruptions - should the culture survive - make great stories too.
Every time I see a Stefan video I watch it right away. Your ending perfectly demonstrated why. Your ability to humanize people we so rarely think about but whose hands reach out to us is otherworldly. Thank you so much from the bottom of my history nerd heart. You breathe life back into the past
I have to say, it’s truly astonishing at how few views and subscribers you have. Your videos have such a high production quality and I’m delighted every time to see a new video of yours to pop up in my feed. I can’t wait for you to have the reception you deserve!
I had never before thought about how old the world's oldest stories could be, but this was a really cool way to bring oral history into factual life! To me, the most shocking part you didn't mention is that humans were there to witness such destructive volcanic events and LIVED to pass the story down.
My people, the Birpai people of NSW Australia, tell a story of three brothers who were turned in islands in the ocean. The three brothers mountains are now all inland. Could this story recount a time when the ocean level rebounded after the last glacial maximum? We were here during that time.
@@mattswadling4572 thanks. I was trying to work out the implications of your comment and the sequence of events . It's an interesting idea. My understanding is that the sea was at is lowest during the ice age and has been getting higher since. Mind you, the ice age was 10,000ish years back and the Aborigines have been there for a lot longer than that, so it could have been one of the interglacials, I'm not familiar with the timing of the ice ages, how long they lasted, etc. I suppose it's possible that they were before the ideal D's/mountains were flooded, watched it tun into ocean, and then watched it turn into dry land again
From looking at charts I think the last time sea levels around Australia would have been significantly higher (due to and interglacial warm period) was 130,000 years ago but, I think we are talking a few metres. The current ice age has been running for about 3 million years. If we look at the 12 apostles in Victoria we see that there are now only about 9 left (I think). Erosion is eliminating them pretty quickly. So, maybe the three brothers eroded but, the story still got told and somewhere along the way somebody thought that it made sense they were now inland?
My people would tell the tale of a god (the sun god) who would walk across the sky daily to bring warmth, light and life to our people. The sun is more than 4.5 billion years old, so we have the oldest story ever told.
Ha, funnily enough i just subscribed to Crecganford and, after having watched some of his proto Indo European creation myth videos, did some reading of my own and read up on Budj Bim and the Gunditjmara creation story, and lo and behold, Stefan comes along to make a video about it.
I'm going to take just a moment to thank you for your dedication to the subject of human history and for the videos that you make. In 2011, I saw Werner Herzog's film "Cave of Forgotten Dreams," about the discovery of Chauvet Cave (Grotte Chauvet), and I was hooked; I began reading everything that I could find on the subject, and as an academic (English Professor), I tend to be pretty thorough. Eight months later, after much research and planning, I spent a week in the Dordogne and Vézère river valleys in South Western France, visiting Paleolithic caves to see parietal art in situ. It was a life-changing trip, the first of many spent driving all over France to see Paleolithic sites. I've begun to lose count of the number of books and academic papers on deep human history that I've read at this point, which brings me to you. I appreciate so much the time that you put into your work here to get it right, based on science and the facts, not to mention the cultural sensitivity with which you conduct yourself, as in this particular piece, because it is the essential context for the archeology. This matters a great deal. I'll close by saying that your obvious joy--your awe and wonder--for the subject is reaffirming for me, which also matters. --Best Regards, Todd Lovett
On the subject of stories about Volcanos, the Rök Runestone, constructed in or around the year 800, may reference a volcanic eruption as well. Recent studies have found that in the year 530, a series of volcanic eruptions in Iceland spread a cloud of smoke over pretty much all of Europe and most of North America for 11 eleven years. about half of all people in Scandinavia died, and there are some parts in Ireland that are completely devoid of graves from that time, too. And heres where the Rökstenten comes in. In the early 2000s, a man named Bo Ralph noticed parallels between a Riddle on the stone, and an old English Riddle in the Exeter Book revolving around the sun and moon and how they "steal each other's light" A portion of the inscription reads as follows: _"Þat sagum ąnnart, hwaʀ for nīu aldum ą̄n urði fiaru meðr Hræiðgutum, auk dō meðr/dœmiʀ hann/enn umb sakaʀ. Rēð Þiaurikʀ hinn þurmōði, stilliʀ flutna, strąndu Hræiðmaraʀ. Sitiʀ nū garwʀ ą̄ guta sīnum, skialdi umb fatlaðʀ, skati Mǣringa. Þat sagum twalfta, hwar hæstʀ sē Gunnaʀ etu wēttwąngi ą̄, kunungaʀ twæiʀ tigiʀ swāð ą̄ liggia."_ Which translates to English as: _"I say the to the young men, which the two war-booties were, which twelve times were taken as war-booty, both together from various men. I say this second, who nine generations ago lost his life with the Hreidgoths; and died with them for his guilt. Þjóðríkr the bold, chief of sea-warriors, ruled over the shores of the Hreiðsea. Now he sits armed on §B his Goth(ic horse), his shield strapped, the prince of the Mærings."_ A generation is about 30 years, 9 generations would be 270 years. 800-270 = 530 The "battle" is probably referring to Ragnarök, pretty much the end of the world, but the talea go that before the battle will come a "mighty winter" which will cause mass famine and block out the sun. So here's the answer to the Riddle. "Who lost his life nine generations ago?" The sun.
This video made me feel 'hiraeth' even before the images of monuments in neolithic Britain (of which there are plenty in Wales). The strongest connection between a people and the land is their oral history. Every time you make a new video I CAN'T WAIT until your next one. Thank you!
The indigenous people like Diné, Hopi, of the southwest have stories about the volcano fields near Grants NM. the solidified rock from the outflow of the volcano is called the Giants Blood after the twin monster slayers destroyed one of the original enemies of men in that area.
it's a good story, but impuning a lot of this and we don't even know who King Arthur was and his Knights. I would NOT give First Nations any more credence that any other people's to say their stories just happened to dovetail into the trendy trend of the times. !!
@@HeronPoint2021 The story of King Arthur was made up wholesale and has no ancient origins though, before Geoffrey of Monmouth's history there are no mentions of anything resembling King Arthur. The best is a few mentions of a general named Arthur in the Annales Cambriae but earlier sources attribute those battles to different generals and historians suspect that the Annales were edited. Not to mention that Arthur as a name doesn't seem to be Welsh in origin but is instead Irish. We don't really know why Geoffrey made up Arthur but for some reason he did and he's the origin point of all Arthurian legend.
@@HeronPoint2021if an oral tradition has physical evidence of it actually happening, then people saw it happening. There is very little evidence for the story of king Arthur actually happening. As Milo said, there are no truly ancient stories from Britain due to it being relatively small with a high amount of population movement.
@@HeronPoint2021 The tribes mentioned actually have a methodology for oral transmission that supports the idea these are actual stories from the time. People have lived there a long time and they actually teach their children their stories in a way that they are able to repeat them correctly and accurately. If they were doing that back then, the stories would be correct. Since there is physical evidence of all of it, in addition to all the other anthropological evidence, it's pretty much proven fact.
@@Lutefisk445 In the West Country one burial mound was reputed to be the grave of a young prince. On digging it up that's pretty much what they found. Less than handful of of milenia though. There was a further case of a farmer's son being related to another such local burial mound grave skeleton; so perhaps not such a fluid population. Most folks in Britain are actually genetically Celts. Who ever came along the peasants endured.
*My theory:* Perhaps, storytelling remained important in the absence of writing and became an important skill in not only for the preservation of history, but also teaching in general - no classrooms, no textbooks, so hands on and _ears alert._ Also, due to remoteness, the influence of outside cultures didn't change their cosmology nor their way of life, which included storytelling. And if the act of being an orator became part of a man's identity, then the incentive to do so persisted to learn those narratives.
@@macdougdoug I imagine ancient people enjoyed stories in the same way we enjoy movies and TV. I don't really know how to describe the emotion I feel (nostalgia?) when I think about people 30,000 years ago sitting around the fire with rapt attention while they're told the story of the eruption at Budj Bim- which was already a 7 thousand year old story by that point.
@@macdougdougexcept groups are susceptible to the influence of a few or even one person. And even minor changes, seemingly insignificant, over time can result in major changes to the story.
I'm from rural Vic, Australia. Our aboriginal people are ancient. Many traditional people's even have large brow ridges & oxipital buns. There stories are sung. They are beautiful!! They are ancient people walking amongst us & we need to protect & preserve this privilege
I haven't been all over the state, but travelling the Grampians is some of the best preservation I've seen of pre-settlement indigenous history in Victoria. It's awesome how small you feel looking at those paintings. Wish we had more of their history and destroyed less.
They are fully modern humans. All peoples are ancient, ie all of us have approx 300,000 years of homo sapien ancestry. Australian Aboriginal appearance is very varied as is the appearance within most groups around the world.
This is why I love your channel. Continuing the ancient stories told around campfires to our modern times. I'm in awe of any culture that would keep it's history alive that long. It really makes me wish we had a time machine to go back in time to see what it was really like to be a human in those times.
For oral history to be passed down for over 7700 years like that describing in detail a volcanic eruption like this is honestly the most incredible part Over 250 generations have preserved this event with no written records of it.
My guesses for this are The Epic of Gilgamesh (just as an Honorary mention), Australian Aboriginal stories describing land formations now underwater, and the story of Callisto as carried into the Americas.
I definitely wonder if the old Sumerian flood story has its origin in one of the relatively rapid pulses of the flooding of the Persian/Arabian Gulf basin. If the Sumer folk migrated up the river, followed by the advancing water, then stopped around the location of Eridu, when the water quit following them, that would sure fit nicely with some of their myths, and a very old flood story. Would also account for Sumerian being a language isolate, genetically unrelated to the local Semitic and Indo-European languages.
@@cacogenicist I would not be surprised if some oral histories/legends about floods can be traced to either sea level rise or floods related to melt water release as the ice sheets retreated.
@@cacogenicistSorry, I'm not following your comment, could you explain it a bit? How do they travel up water with advancing flood water following them? You don't mean uphill?
I love Crater lake! I grew up in Walla Walla, WA, but we had a lot of extended family in Oregon. We spent several summer family gatherings camping around Crater Lake. I have never heard the tales or facts about it's formation.
Nothing tickles me more than being reminded there's a real place named walla walla. In exchange for this delight, know there's a town over here in nc called boogertown
I am always grateful to you for connecting me to our amazing history, thank you for your endeavors, Stefan you ground me in a most wonderful way, love to you and those dear to you.
I have been following you for a long time and I like your style. Today you really made me laugh because of a t-shirt text I recently saw saying ... “ADHD Highway to... Hey Look A Squirrel!” You nearly pinpointed it with your chippmunk.
I've been home sick all day and watching your videos to pass the time and lo and behold, I checked your channel and there's another video out, wonderful!
so excited to see you talking about this topic!! my mom worked as a linguist with klamath elders when i was a baby, and she told me about this ancient story. so neat, i love oral history
Wow to have someone as yourself interested in sharing your knowledge and able to explain it in manner that makes it more easily understood for the interested but under educated and how much more interesting you make it with your excitement and details, I so appreciate the opportunity to learn..... 😊
In a sea of stodgy, stiff, dry and lifeless anthropological documentaries, your work sparkles with wit and charm. Thank you, Stephan, for communicating your enthusiasm for your topic so brilliantly.
It seems like every friend or acquaintance that ever went west took photographs of Crater Lake and proudly shared them with us upon their return home. Oh look, another picture of Crater Lake, very pretty, yawn. You just brought it to life in this video. I am amazed at this story. Stefan, you have a gift for sharing your research while still remembering the initial spark of excitement that inspired you and passing that on to us. We are addicted to listening to your stories and always look forward to a new one. Thank You.
According to the Encyclopedia of Oregon, the big event was, as you say, 7700 years ago. But volcanic activity continued for about 3000 years, to 4800 years ago. So prior to the volcano going dormant, there would have been activity, for thousands of years, some of it similar to modern Hawaii or Iceland. That active could, in my opinion, easily reinforce an oral tradition. Even today, the hot springs and fumaroles in and around the park together with the continued activity of the Cascade range help keep the memory alive.
Thanks for that info. I wondered about that since it has a smaller volcanic cone in the middle of the lake. Alternatively the locals could have conjectured that the mountain used to be shaped like other mountains but somehow the top collapsed. The volcanism still coming from the lake could have inspired the fire aspect or perhaps witnessing of other more recent volcanic activity since it’s relatively common in the region.
Hi Stefan, I have seen a few of your videos and like them very much. I hope you can continue and hopefuly more research will be made on our human evolution. By the way, I love that slogan: no atlantis nos aliens no nonsense😅. Keep it up . Greetings from Germany
One year, think it was 2005 or 6, we went to see Crater Lake but were turned back by the Rangers before we were halfway up the winding road. Snow was still blocking the route. In June.
The oldest possible story I have heard of is the Seven Sisters star cluster, both Greek history and Aboriginal Australians have very similar stories of the Seven Sisters, furthermore in todays night sky only 6 of the stars are visible, however 100,000 years ago all 7 of the stars were visible, making the story likely to be at least 100,000 years old.
There is evidence of human presence in eastern Oregon from more than 15K years before present, so there very likely were hunan observers of this volcanic event.
I mean, we know that the surrounding area was inhabited 7,700 years ago, so we know that there were people there to witness it. The "lightning and fireballs" line to me implies at least a witness at some point, because if you thought it had just collapsed why mention the phenomenon of volcanic lightning? Seems like too specific a detail to have been made up, to me. That being said, we'll never know the actual origin of the story or how old it is. All we can do is apply occam's razor in conjunction with what we know for certain.
thank you for again another beautiful observation! I love watching your videos; eloquent, fun, thorough and enticing content, accessible without it being dumbed down. Love it Love it Love it!
It has been theorised that the Cornish story of 'Lyonesse' originates from when the Isles of Scilly were joined to the mainland around 12000 years ago. But for sure the story of 'Ennor' which means 'Great Island' in old Cornish is from when the Scillies were one island around 5000 years ago. And the Cornish name for St Michaels Mount is 'Karrek Loos yn Koos' or 'Grey Rock in the Woods'. It hasn't been in the woods for around 5000 years and is current 500m from the shore.
That’s a very Scilly story indeed. Awfully bad. Btw my stepdad is from Cornwall and I find that area’s history and the Cornish language to be extremely interesting. Thanks for the comment, I’m going to put on my deerstalker hat and look those tales up now.
Love how Welsh and Cornish are so similar. The Welsh word for 'in' is 'yn' (exactly like the Cornish language) and the Welsh word for 'rock' is 'carreg', said very similarly to 'Karrek'!
It's possible that it's an older myth than the Arthurian fable we have been brought up on, it's not something I for one have studied closely. @@andyjay729
Hi Stefan. I always enjoy your videos. You asked about other volcanic crater lakes. The largest one in the world is Lake Toba on the island of Sumatra in Indonesia. It has a length of 100 km and 505 meters depth while Crater Lake is only 10 Km long and 594 meters deep. To a has about 10 times the volume of water. Both are very beautiful lakes. The big explosion for Toba was about 70,000 years ago and almost wiped out humankind. It is estimated that humans were reduced to only a few thousand who survived. This is one of the explanations given by scientists to explain why our DNA variance is less that other animal species. The Ring of Fire volcanic belt throughout Indonesia has many spectacular volcanoes including other more recent large eruptions such as Tambora, Krakatoa, and Rinjani. Tambora was perhaps the largest volcanic explosion in recent human history about 200 years ago. There are many legends, ceremonies, and beliefs about volcanoes in Indonesia as you would expect. I live in Indonesia but am originally from the Northwest in the USA.
The chill air, the smell of the trees and plants and earth all rushed back for me during your video. And I could just sense how those people are living in Australia. Smell it😯
Oldest story that can be tracked, nearly every culture has a story regarding the Pleiades also known as the Seven Sisters. Thing is only 6 can be seen with the naked eye. The last time 7 individual stars would be able to be seen without optics was in 100,000 BCE. Yet every single myth and story references Seven. That is some deep time there.
you need to see eye doctor and go to a really rural area, out of USA and out of Europe. many people can see the seven stars. no joke. obviously where there is light pollution, like in all european countires and US states, the seven stars can not be seen. but in very rural places without light pollution at night, with normal healthy eyesight, they can be seen. you must fallen for the romanticizing fake mythology stories to claim scientific abilities of humans in ancient times. (which usually are then connected to aliens visiting earth stories to differ apes and homo sapiens origins. they claim that homo sapiens do not come from australobipedicus but from highly intelligent beings from outer space. it serves to purpose to feed the human ego and make it to god like figure and far away from the reality that homo sapiens is an animal. we biologists have evidence of our last ancestor australobipedicus in africa)
Shout out from Oregon! You're awesome. Im going to college for anthropology. Thank you for feeding my interest, and thank you for doing what you do. Cheers bro
Isn't there an alternative explanation? The local people looked at the landscape, at the slopes of the ridges etc. and realised: This must have been an mountain that collapsed? With other words: Using their common sense, they guessed the geological processes correctly?
Hello Stefan. In regards to old stories and myth, Ancient Origins reported today about the earliest flood myth can be found in the Sumerian Tablets, Circa 2000 BC. So it seems stories can last a very long time, in regards to your video here. Maybe we do not give enough credence to the passage of oral traditions among people. The Indigenous peoples of many places around the world carry with them the many origin/creation stories. We know that scientists and researchers of old/and new do not put much credence in the abilities and stories of indigenous populations across time.
Once they hear spirits, gods, beasts and monsters, their minds shuts down. They forget the wise elders were trying to explain the unexplainable of those times. Supernatural entities fit the bill to describe events and theories, as it was easier accepted by tribe members.
Man I love your channel I live in central Oregon and we have such a rich history such as Paisley caves, Rim rock draw, Fort Rock etc. Excited you're/were here and to watch this!
It's thanks to Fort Rock that I know what a volcanic tuff cone is, and also why, when watching the 2015 James Bond film "Spectre" I was totally taken out of the moment when Blofeld explains how his crater layer was made by a meteor impact. Nuh-uh, that formation had all the hallmarks of a tuff cone. And so I looked it up later, and I was right! Why yes, I do organize my spice rack alphabetically.
Ancient history has these two ways to be passed down. Where written language is absent then word of mouth is the only alternative. Africa has tribal history that has survived by having designated people memorising complete family histories. Under these conditions all it takes is for one culture to exterminate another for that information to be lost for ever. Something human beings have " achieved" in their ignorance no doubt many times.
I think in both cases, you have populations of humans on isolated islands/continents, without constant overturning of societies from external sources, so having these stories existing for such a long time over human history makes some sense.
It's wonderful, and sad, that 'amateurs' , sorry to say that, can produce more clear and interesting documentaries than billion dollar corporations. Please don't change your format and don't insert 'atmospheric' music. Keep going Stefan, we love you.
Someone told me a story the other day about how when you die your soul continues its adventures in an afterlife dimension. I wonder how many 100s of thousands of years that story has been passed down? I hear Neanderthals have been known to bury their dead on a bed of flowers - but maybe that was for some other reason. Stories are important, they form beliefs, which affect actions - not surprising some people are worrying about ChatGPT.
Very cool, thank you for letting us know! I find it so fascinating how ancient some of these stories are, and how well they're passed down to us through so many generations!
nearly all indigenous tribes aroung the globe living close to river deltas have their own flood/apocalypse story especially after last iceage. its documented, google for sources. noah flood is just plain stolen from gilgamesh epos, and that flood story is not the only one existing in human history but refers to real water spilling of the river euphyrate in Turkiye and Iraq region. they exaggerated a lot back in mesopotamian, later akkadian, semitic, hittite, cultures when describing simple things. river spilling became end of the world, even an apocalyptic event to have a dramatic story to tell so peoples attention would be caught. if you speak with old arabic, old persian old indian native, they tell stories , fairy tales with lots of superlatives. its part of their culture.
You are one of my favorite people in the world. Thank you for taking time out of your life to produce these videos and also for not turning into a douchey YT creator :D
Amazing stuff as ever, Stefan! I definitely think that uninterrupted oral histories of indigenous communities around the world are great sources when looking at events in prehistory, there's a great Ted talk given in Adelaide this reminds me of from Jacinta Koolmatrie where she talks about memories of prehistoric megafauna in Australia co-existing with humans. Stressful out of the ordinary events, people are going to retell and remember
Anyone know any other super ancient tales that we can kind of date?
The cosmic hunt does not have an exact date, but we know when the stars started appearing above the horizon due to earth's precession.
Not that old but Polynesian oral history about exploration of the antarctic is super fascinating.
stories of Olmecs or Nahua in general
Oldest oral history story according to my internet cheat....
Palawa Aboriginal stories from Tasmania recall geological and astronomical events that occurred 12,000 years ago, placing them among the oldest recorded stories in the world
you wouldn't of named this video this, if you ever have eaten taco bell.
I felt a magnitude 5.8 earthquake 12 years ago and have yet to stop talking about it. If i saw Mount Mazama pop off my children's children's children would hear about it.
Any mention of Hurricane Michael still sends me into a tirade about my experience and the experiences of others I knew, catastrophic events are passed down for generations and we remember the trauma of our ancestors through those stories
And clearly you haven’t stopped doing so 😂
If you live in New Zealand's South island. That's just above noticeable as we get them all the time
As an American teen, I lived in Taiwan for a year due to my dad's job, when they had their 7.7 magnitude earthquake in 1999 & still vividly remember how it felt! It was my first & only real quake (not counting aftershocks of the original.)
I was living in Cusco a few years back and felt a 7.1 earthquake that happened in Arica, Chile, I believe. I woke up to my bed scooting across the floor. Thought it was a dream at first.
Klamath Tribal member and long time subscriber here. Thank you so much for talking about my tribe and our legends. We owe you a thanks! Great content as always and I can’t to see more!
This means a lot to me, you owe me no thanks though. I thank you all for preserving your history down to today. It's so special.
You have a beautiful tribe, history, and landscape. Much love
Stefan has a beautiful way to talk about a topic and show respect and appreciation and amazement for the protagonists oh his stories. I think this makes him stand out among many others archeologists. And I say this being one...
@@StefanMiloWe should than you for your wonderful work. You never see other stuff of the same high quality aniwere on TV (thinking of certain Netflix poppy shows...)
This video shows the importance of having down stories within each family.
The fact that some legends of modern tribal communities of beasts and monsters roaming the wilderness are based off of real life mega fauna that existed and that their distant ancestors interacted with is pretty cool.
In brazilian folklore we have "Mapinguari" its an enourmous tall, smelly, hairy beast with long nails, its believed to be folklore about the Giant sloths the indigenous were witnessing thousands of years ago
I still believe the stiff-legged bear is a mammoth, and I absolutely refuse to listen to reason on the subject.
@@Gorboduc your kind also believed if you paid the church a fee you could sin all you want and go to heaven. Give it time
@@pinchevulpes Shut up.
@@pinchevulpes I congratulate you on finding the perfect time and place to discuss atheism!
As an indigenous person and social studies teacher I want to say thank you for making points of reference to oral historical reference points for Aboriginal peoples which in many instances do not allow deviations from the exact way a story is told and handed down like a library book one knowledge keeper after another.
i just farted
so stinky
I had an english teacher in the 1980's who stressed this to us about oral stories. She said that the community would protest and correct the speaker is anything was said wrong or left out.
Hail caesar!
If I remember right, they sing the stories as songs in unison so that everyone learns them the same way and can correct eachother whereas other cultures tend to pass oral histories between singular specialized individuals.
Hey Stefan, there are very old stories here in Australia. But some just can’t be dated. They don’t necessarily relate to a specific event that can be dated. But here in Victoria, bass strait flooded somewhere between 7-8k years ago. This put pressure on the tectonic plate and throughout the western district of Victoria, many volcanoes erupted which changed the landscape forever. Some indigenous people were recorded telling stories about these eruptions. In regards to the eel traps you mentioned, there are older ones in the Australian alps that go back to the last ice age, at least. Huge channels and water management systems. Also, eel traps have been found in central Australia that used to be employed in the large inland lakes - which are now completely arid. And I think the oldest art on earth has been found here, with the stone engravings in Tasmania probably the oldest man made art on the planet. A great book on this is by an amazing ethnographic and cultural researcher, Josephine Flood, called ‘archaeology of the Dreamtime’. It’s a shame that most people who are interested in this area of research don’t take more interest in what has been discovered in Australia. It’s just seen as a bit of an aside to the grand picture of humanity, which I believe reflects the European primitivist discourse that permeates academic thinking. So it’s great to see you referencing Australia’s indigenous people on your channel.
I've heard of stories on the east coast of Australia talking about islands off the coast that used to be coastal hilltops before the ocean level rose to the current level. Which would have to date them to the end of the last ice age!
@@ThalassTKynnI love that example, and that it's "confirmed" by I think it was charting the land there? Mental thing is I've told ppl about it and it's literally science but ppl still never like "oral histories can't be accurate" 🙄
@@StonedtotheBones13
Some are. And some likely aren't.
Didn't they find indigenous rock art of giant marsupials that went extinct 50,000 years ago? Aboriginal Australian's culture is truly amazing, and its one of the planet's oldest in continual use culture.
Yes, they have also found a stone axe embedded in the spinal column of a diprotodon, an extinct giant wombat, about the size of a rhino. Theres a great book on this by a very respected Australian scientist, Tim Flannery, called Anyone who thinks that there haven't been any warnings about climate change should read this book. He predicted everything going on at the present moment in that book in the early nineties. @@robertreynolds442
In the world of UA-cam where extremely unqualified people are peddling false history, fake facts, guesses, conspiracy clickbaits, your channel is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you Stefan.
Interesting you mentioned Neolithic tombs in Ireland, Stefan. In medieval times , the mounds in county Meath such as Knowth, Dowth and Newgrange (it was not then known that they were megalithic tombs) were known as the “Hills of Incest”. Recent DNA studies of the bodies found in these discovered megalithic tombs showed that they were the product of incestual relationships, probably to conserve a royal or aristocratic bloodline like in Ancient Egypt. It’s been hypothesised that this naming is due to some folk memory or oral history that dates back to the times of these burials, around 5500 years ago!
Also, I'd swear that in some article they mentioned a medieval Irish legend about a princess, incest and solar phenomena.
That is so cool! It's amazing what we've learned about these peoples in just the last couple decades: they went up and down the Atlantic coast spreading a megalithic tradition inherited from earlier post-Mesolithic groups; they liked their boats and did a lot of sailing; and BOY HOWDY did they keep it in the family. I bet there were some goofy-looking MFs at the top of the aristocratic pile back then.
In one story the seasons had stopped, which might be a way of saying that some climate change catastrophe had occurred and crops failed. In order to restart the seasons the king slept with his sister, which was understood to be a great sin, but they did so in order to get the daily solar cycle going again. They were successful and presumably their son was the man buried in Newgrange. The site where they committed incest is said to be Dowth passage tomb and was earlier known as 'the hill of sin' in Irish.
The DNA in those tombs also shows they aren’t related to modern Celtic peoples, but instead the ancient Anatolians (modern day Turkey) who also were ancestors of the Egyptians.
Celtic folklore is also loaded with stories of the fey who lived in Ireland before the celts arrived, who lived “under hills and mountains”. A lot of that is probably stories of a long-forgotten people who built the barrows.
There is even argument about celts. The celtic culture comes from europe but the gaelic languages survive along the western seaboard. Brittany, Cornwall, Wales aka Cymru, Cumbria. Scotland and Ireland. Though the Scots moved from Ireland. Aka Dalreida.
It's worth looking into the oral histories from Haida Gwaii! This detail didn't make my video on the Haida PNW people, but some of their oral histories appear to make reference to glaciers and other climate-related events that some archeologists have linked to occurrences over 10,000 BP. Pacific Rim Archeology's 2005 book "Haida Gwaii: Human History and
Environment from the Time of Loon to the Time of the Iron People" is a great resource for this.
I live inside the caldera of Mount Aso in Japan. Here, we have a legend about how there used to be a huge lake surrounded by the outer rim of the caldera. Then the god Takeiwatatsu-no-Mikoto kicked a gap into the outer rim so all the water could flow out, which is why people can now live inside the caldera and grow crops 😊
Volcanic ash produces extremely fertile land. And volcanic ash itself can be super useful in other ways. The main reason why Roman concrete is so much better than modern concrete, for instance, is because the Romans mixed ash into their concrete mixture, greatly improving its structural integrity. Volcanically energetic areas are terrific places to live…until the moment they aren’t. 😁
Nope not me! Stay safe out there. God Bless
Been there twice for a short vacation stay. Very nice region for hiking. I found Beppu most fascinatig featuring it's steaming "hell pits"
That’s so cool!! Do you know how old the story is? I’m guessing that happened a long time ago!
Hi Stefan, great video!
The oldest story I know of is about the Plejades, which in many different cultures all over the world (from indigineous peoples in Africa, Australia and the Americas as well as in ancient European mythologies) are called the "seven sisters". In many, but not all of this stories, these seven sisters are pursuit by either one or three hunter(s), which are linked with Orion or the three stars which form Orions belt. To save the sisters, they are put on the night sky. Of course, up to this point it could be a simple case of convergent story-evolution. However, another thing that links all of this stories is the fact that only 6 stars are visible in the "seven sisters". Therefore, there is an explanation to the question what happened to the seventh sister in all the stories. But these explanations are different in every culture. Modern observations of the Plejades-Starcluster have shown that one of the six bright mayor stars are infact two, slowly passing each other from ouer point of view. Simulations have shown that between 80.000 an 70.000 years ago, the two stars would have started to get to close to be distinguished by even the best human eyes. So the story of the seven sisters and their cosmic safeguard seems to be at least older than 70.000 years old and therefore could be even older than the Diaspora of Homo sapiens out of Africa...
Of course, all of this could just be a huge coincident, but I think that just the possibility of one story old enough to be just "human" in origin is realy awesome ^^
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this.
Where did you find this? Very interesting.
Ray Norris and Barnaby Norris, 'Why are there Seven Sisters?', in Boutsikas E., McCluskey S.C., Steele J. (eds) Advancing Cultural Astronomy: Historical & Cultural Astronomy. (Springer: 2021), pp. 223-235.
@@RexoryByzaboo
This is what I was looking for. It's Amazing to think there is a story almost as old as humanity itself. A story that was told around campfires in our ancestral homeland and then travelled with us, in all directions, out across the world.
This is video on just that story ua-cam.com/video/_qyjKND3dAE/v-deo.html
Oh man, I love you for this, Stefan! I'm a PhD researcher in archaeology specialising in prehistoric artificial memory systems (i.e. technologies developed to record, store, & transmit information in oral traditions). I'm so glad you covered this, as people tend to view the written word as having sumpremacy over oral traditions, but that's because people don't understand how they work or how reliable they can be at retaining accurate information over long periods of time. I think it's really important to highlight the intellectual lives of indigenous people, as well as prehistoric people, as it can help change perceptions of how those groups think & innovate - and that can help combat bigotry. So, thank you for this. These stories are a remarkable & fascinating part of human history. It's these kind of things that made me want to be a prehistorian.
This was a really well researched & presented video. Only thing I'll add is that the Gundjitmara story won't necessarily have been passed down through 1000+ generations. One strategy employed in oral traditions to reduce the 'telephone game effect', where repeated information gets distorted, is to pass stories from grandparent to grandchild, rather than parent to child. Therefore, halving the number of people who have to retain & pass on the information.
Also: I am Do the Damn Research! on Twitter. I haven't posted in a long while, so you might not remember me, but we follow(ed) each other & have interacted a few times. There's a real dearth of quality SciComm in our field, which is what contributes to the popularity of people like Hancock & Ancient Aliens. Those beliefs can have dire political consequences. People like you & Miniminuteman are doing valuable work! Keep it up!
What do you mean about dire political consequences from people like Graham Hancock? I don't consider his theories to be absolute truths but it's interesting to hear others ideas about the ancient past and I think it's healthy for people to consider alternate possibilities to the standard school of thought. After all there's been so much change in these fields just over the last few decades, like when I was young the accepted view was that humans had only occupied the Americas for about 5k-6k years at most and now it's known to be at least 3 times that long that humans have been here. Anybody that suggested that kind of occupation 30 years ago were considered wacko fringe pseudoscientists.
@@JackParsons2You're correct that it's important to have diversity of thought and ideas in fields like this, especially when specialists are known to sometimes develop a certain tunnel vision in how they approach the evidence. The problem with Hancock is that he brooks no contradiction. Anytime contradictory evidence is brought up on social media to show his hypotheses (they don't rise to the level of theories) less probable than he makes them out to be (which tends to be close to 100% on nowhere near enough real evidence) he targets them with his horde of fans to shout them down.
On some level, he must know that his evidence isn't good enough to support the level of certainty he presents. That's why his approach has been not to present better evidence, but to attack archeology as a whole with what amounts to conspiracy theories. What archaeologists are supposed to gain from "suppressing the truth" isn't clear. Books and media deals are a hell of a lot more lucrative then research funding applications.
So he sows mistrust against an entire profession for no real reason other than to promote himself, and gets people to believe a lot of - oh, let's be real and call it nonsense - instead of the genuine, and absolutely fascinating, history of our kind.
They don't need to retain and remember anything at all at least not everything at all; god provided them a story book, a science book perhaps even; the stars. You only have to teach the method of how to read the stars; and the stars will always provide you the same story. Just look up, and read the stars.
>contributes to the popularity of people like Hancock & Ancient Aliens. Those beliefs can have dire political consequences.
Dire political consequences? Eh? What, some funding goes away to some other folk who have a different interpretation of things than you? The folks with the ancient aliens who the hell takes them seriously anymore; they ran their nonsense into ground when they were done claiming every pre-historic sight as aliens, and to think of a way to keep the cashcow going, they went after historic buildings and constructions, recent historic buildings and constructions; as in the Roman Empire that have actual written texts on exactly who, why and how they build the damn things as "ancient aliens did it". They're crackpots, even if some group of people believing them enough grew large enough to give them funding, they're bullshit would still fall apart against scientific rigor, and I wouldn't even consider it such a bad idea; peer review and only peer review / a science field isolating itself so easily produces an echo chamber; they need a good kick in the butt from time to time from complete outsider that by people with control over money are taken seriously enough, you take them seriously enough to genuinely engage with them to both increase to robustness of your own position, as well as highlight the cracks, and if the cracks are aren't in the position, then they are in your argumentation techniques, and the only way to improve them, is to go up against people who fundamentally don't agree with you, for real.
But what about Graham Hancock!? The man has changed his positions and ideas over time as new evidence came to light. His first idea of the catastrophe was Earth Crust Shift, which was an legitimate scientific theory at one point, mind you; he has rejected this idea as evidence of a more than potential impact event during or before the Younger Drias; rose. In the past, he was much more about a truly advanced civilization; today, not so much; he still wants quite an advanced civilization, still much more advanced that I would be willing to go, but his positions and ideas adapt to new information... like a scientist, unlike some people I can name.
Like you, and Stefan and The-Chillian down below; because, YOU ARE PROVING GRAHAM HANCOCK RIGHT, RIGHT HERE!!!
Graham Hancock and Archeo-astronomers looked at the symbols on Gobleki Tepi's pillars, and said, this animal symbols represent the constellations; the same constellations we find much later. And every single last one of you, went, "That's stupid, that can't happen. Just think of the telephone game! There was no writing! There's absolutely no way they could have that same idea and knowledge and that get passed down to later civilizations! No, 7 to 8 thousand years that's way to much time! How stupid!"
37,000 YEARS! Four to five times as long, completely intact. And that's a volcanic eruption, evidence of which will have been gone as nature took back the destroyed land inside of 1,000 years. The stars, the very same constellations, still shine above us to this day.
You are of a literal field of archaeology that studies the various methods with which people could pass knowledge down the line all-but-intact for tens of thousands of years, and Graham Hancok and several Archeo-astronomers posited something only fraction of that time, you kept your mouth shut, and the archeologist, professional and amateur, erased your entire field from archeology to blacken a man and other scientists saying anything that could support his supposition. The guy below is saying, "What would be gained from 'suppressing truth', isn't clear?" I wouldn't know either, but maybe you folks can answer the question, since you're not just suppressing the truth, your suppressing and denying not just the truth but an entire field of archaeological research, your OWN in your case, in order to blacken the man, and anyone who has any position that even remotely supports his position.
You are proving him right, you're doing it! You're doing it right here!
Not surprising really. If you're blind to your own faults, going around with the ridiculous notion, "That Oh, no, how dare this one human suggest, that this other group of humans I'm a part of, aren't perfect, infallible, incorruptible saints who can do no wrong, and can never be wrong! How evil, he thinks us but humans!" You're not going to see when you are being corrupt, false, close-minded, lead around by your nose by money donors. You are doing it right now. Someone who wasn't closed-minded, someone who wasn't corrupted by whether it is emotions, or money, or whatever, would go, "Corrupt, fallible, closed-minded, possible, we are human, if you have evidence of that, please give it to us, so we have a shot at doing something about it." Not, go, "Oh, my god, he's making people distrust us, make them think we are but human, how dare he! All the plebs might not just except our decrees of what is true right away, and demand us to show evidence! The dire political consequences! No!"
"I am wrong. I am always wrong. I can never be right. I can only ever be less wrong," that should be the mantra that goes through every scientist's head when they get up out of bed every morning, and be repeated regularly throughout every day, every criticism no matter where it comes from, should be responded to - not with derision, or with screams of "lack of trust" (if there's anything that engenders lack of trust it is that very thing) - but with care, respect, evidence and reason, not insults, not fear-mongering, not quick thoughtless put downs.
If I were Stefan and I'm making a video about a story that stayed intact for 37,000 years, when I put down a man just a few months earlier for story that according to me can't last a fraction of the time, I'd scratch my head, and go, "Ooh, I may have been a little to quick to pull the trigger on that one; Hancock and those archeologists that agreed with him, they may have had a point, I should probably look closer into it, and make a much in depth video on the subject."
By the way, as for memory systems, don't condemn the natural ones before looking into it; god's picture story book is right above everyone's eyes.
Would it be possible that people native to the area figured out the geology?
Ultimately that's how we know there was a volcanic eruption because we figured out the geology. Some tools were unavailable to people of the past, but maybe people skilled at reading a landscape could have figured out what there was an explosive eruption, by recognizing a caldera and knowing that explosive volcanic eruptions can form a caldera.
It just feels like that native Americans with geological curiosity and insight should be considered possible. And I hope it isn't prejudiced to bring up the possibility.
@@fallingphoenix2341 Nah they were pretty ignorant about things like that. You can't discount how much superstition and mystical beliefs can cloud peoples judgement about things. There's groups of people that believed that we were all living on the shell of a giant turtle and others that believed they all flew up from a hole in the ground fully formed, they aren't even trying to be logical about the forms on the landscape around them. And to be clear I'm not saying this only in reference to the native peoples, this applies to everyone around the world back more than about a century ago, everyone was just exceedingly astonishingly ignorant about the most basic things.
Just returned from Morrisons with a bag of Crisps and Haribo. As I sat down, I noticed that Milo had uploaded a new video. It felt like everything fell into place perfectly.
That's fate
That's not a well rounded, square meal
@@nikobellic570Not unless @Armantas19 paired it with a Coke or IronBru.
Did you get Haribo Starmix? You have to tell us what kind it was and what flavour crisps and the beverage matching and all that.
@@haggismcbaggis9485 Of course! I go for Haribos Tangfastics, Pop Chips Sour Cream, and, of course, Highland Spring Still water to help keep those calories in check.
I LOVE that Stefan got excited seeing a chipmunk. That's a lot like a being thrilled to spot a seagull while walking along the coast. It's great. People should never lose their sense of wonder or excitement for such things. But it is particularly endearing when it is someone so knowledgeable and when he's walking around Crater flipping Lake.
Could be ADHD, could be dog genes 😀 ua-cam.com/video/xrAIGLkSMls/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
SQUIRREL!
*My theory: The reasons why oral tradition persisted in some cultures:
- Perhaps the absence of writing persisted due to physical isolation so storytelling remained relevant.
- Physical isolation facilitated cultural integrity.
- Perhaps storytelling became as important to personal development as say, getting a high school diploma today - no classrooms, no textbooks, so rather than being a luxury, people had to keep it going to educate the young in all things, which included certain "truths."
I think some sort of complex culture has to develop around oral tradition for it to remain accurate over large periods of time and that is probably why we only see a few examples of it, like Aboriginals and this specific example in the video.
Kind of like memorizing complex texts as a requirement for moving forward as a member in secret societies like the Masons.
@@hedgehog3180
Look at some of the oldest stories in Western tradition. Things like the Illiad. And likely the earlier parts of Genesis. And these traditions date no where near as old as some of these. Micheal Wood's In Search of the Trojan War had one episode that featured a Turkish and an Irish story teller. Both singing or telling stories that go back what we would consider a long time.
I think rather than physical isolation, it's more about cultural and geographical stability. The Gunditjmara have been part of larger trade networks in Australia for thousands of years and were by no means isolated from other cultures with different stories, languages and products. But the story of Budj Bim clearly shows a strong cultural continuity planted in more or less the same location.
Although migration and population disruptions - should the culture survive - make great stories too.
People living in the same region for thousands of years instead of migrating as happened in Europe.
250+ generations have preserved the memory of this event with no written words, just incredible
Your enthusiasm for what you research and educate us on, alongside when you visit these sites is contagious. Thank you for your efforts and work.
Also enthusiasm for chipmunks
I was JUST going to say something like that....: he brought a smile to my face....
Every time I see a Stefan video I watch it right away. Your ending perfectly demonstrated why. Your ability to humanize people we so rarely think about but whose hands reach out to us is otherworldly. Thank you so much from the bottom of my history nerd heart.
You breathe life back into the past
Great video Stefan.
nice
nice
I have to say, it’s truly astonishing at how few views and subscribers you have. Your videos have such a high production quality and I’m delighted every time to see a new video of yours to pop up in my feed.
I can’t wait for you to have the reception you deserve!
I had never before thought about how old the world's oldest stories could be, but this was a really cool way to bring oral history into factual life! To me, the most shocking part you didn't mention is that humans were there to witness such destructive volcanic events and LIVED to pass the story down.
My people, the Birpai people of NSW Australia, tell a story of three brothers who were turned in islands in the ocean. The three brothers mountains are now all inland. Could this story recount a time when the ocean level rebounded after the last glacial maximum? We were here during that time.
That would mean that the sea level would have been higher than it is now?
@thecurrentmoment
yep that's what I understand but am happy to be corrected
@@mattswadling4572 thanks. I was trying to work out the implications of your comment and the sequence of events .
It's an interesting idea. My understanding is that the sea was at is lowest during the ice age and has been getting higher since. Mind you, the ice age was 10,000ish years back and the Aborigines have been there for a lot longer than that, so it could have been one of the interglacials, I'm not familiar with the timing of the ice ages, how long they lasted, etc. I suppose it's possible that they were before the ideal D's/mountains were flooded, watched it tun into ocean, and then watched it turn into dry land again
From looking at charts I think the last time sea levels around Australia would have been significantly higher (due to and interglacial warm period) was 130,000 years ago but, I think we are talking a few metres. The current ice age has been running for about 3 million years. If we look at the 12 apostles in Victoria we see that there are now only about 9 left (I think). Erosion is eliminating them pretty quickly. So, maybe the three brothers eroded but, the story still got told and somewhere along the way somebody thought that it made sense they were now inland?
My people would tell the tale of a god (the sun god) who would walk across the sky daily to bring warmth, light and life to our people. The sun is more than 4.5 billion years old, so we have the oldest story ever told.
Crecganford has some really fascinating videos on what the oldest stories might be. They are reconstructed much like Proto Indo European.
I see you are familiar with his work. I, too, am subscribed to his channel.
He does great work!
Thanks for the information. I've never heard of him and this topic fascinates me. I went, I saw and I subscribed.
Came here to say this. I just rewatched his vids on the Cosmic Hunt. Mind blowing detective work by people who study myths.
Ha, funnily enough i just subscribed to Crecganford and, after having watched some of his proto Indo European creation myth videos, did some reading of my own and read up on Budj Bim and the Gunditjmara creation story, and lo and behold, Stefan comes along to make a video about it.
I'm going to take just a moment to thank you for your dedication to the subject of human history and for the videos that you make. In 2011, I saw Werner Herzog's film "Cave of Forgotten Dreams," about the discovery of Chauvet Cave (Grotte Chauvet), and I was hooked; I began reading everything that I could find on the subject, and as an academic (English Professor), I tend to be pretty thorough. Eight months later, after much research and planning, I spent a week in the Dordogne and Vézère river valleys in South Western France, visiting Paleolithic caves to see parietal art in situ. It was a life-changing trip, the first of many spent driving all over France to see Paleolithic sites. I've begun to lose count of the number of books and academic papers on deep human history that I've read at this point, which brings me to you. I appreciate so much the time that you put into your work here to get it right, based on science and the facts, not to mention the cultural sensitivity with which you conduct yourself, as in this particular piece, because it is the essential context for the archeology. This matters a great deal. I'll close by saying that your obvious joy--your awe and wonder--for the subject is reaffirming for me, which also matters. --Best Regards, Todd Lovett
❤What this guy said!!! (I’m not an english teacher 😅)
On the subject of stories about Volcanos, the Rök Runestone, constructed in or around the year 800, may reference a volcanic eruption as well. Recent studies have found that in the year 530, a series of volcanic eruptions in Iceland spread a cloud of smoke over pretty much all of Europe and most of North America for 11 eleven years. about half of all people in Scandinavia died, and there are some parts in Ireland that are completely devoid of graves from that time, too. And heres where the Rökstenten comes in. In the early 2000s, a man named Bo Ralph noticed parallels between a Riddle on the stone, and an old English Riddle in the Exeter Book revolving around the sun and moon and how they "steal each other's light"
A portion of the inscription reads as follows:
_"Þat sagum ąnnart, hwaʀ for nīu aldum ą̄n urði fiaru meðr Hræiðgutum, auk dō meðr/dœmiʀ hann/enn umb sakaʀ. Rēð Þiaurikʀ hinn þurmōði, stilliʀ flutna, strąndu Hræiðmaraʀ. Sitiʀ nū garwʀ ą̄ guta sīnum, skialdi umb fatlaðʀ, skati Mǣringa. Þat sagum twalfta, hwar hæstʀ sē Gunnaʀ etu wēttwąngi ą̄, kunungaʀ twæiʀ tigiʀ swāð ą̄ liggia."_
Which translates to English as:
_"I say the to the young men, which the two war-booties were, which twelve times were taken as war-booty, both together from various men.
I say this second, who nine generations ago lost his life with the Hreidgoths; and died with them for his guilt.
Þjóðríkr the bold,
chief of sea-warriors,
ruled over the shores
of the Hreiðsea.
Now he sits armed on
§B his Goth(ic horse),
his shield strapped,
the prince of the Mærings."_
A generation is about 30 years, 9 generations would be 270 years.
800-270 = 530
The "battle" is probably referring to Ragnarök, pretty much the end of the world, but the talea go that before the battle will come a "mighty winter" which will cause mass famine and block out the sun. So here's the answer to the Riddle.
"Who lost his life nine generations ago?"
The sun.
Maybe thats what caused the worst year in history, 536.
@@robfrancis8830interesting
@@robfrancis8830 It's exactly what caused the worst year 536
One of the best channels on the tube... I have learned a lot watching Milo's videos, if I had kids they would watch too. Thanks for quality content.
He's a great guy and he works hard on his content. We are really lucky to have him.
You should have kids, they are good insurance for the future.
This video made me feel 'hiraeth' even before the images of monuments in neolithic Britain (of which there are plenty in Wales). The strongest connection between a people and the land is their oral history.
Every time you make a new video I CAN'T WAIT until your next one. Thank you!
The indigenous people like Diné, Hopi, of the southwest have stories about the volcano fields near Grants NM. the solidified rock from the outflow of the volcano is called the Giants Blood after the twin monster slayers destroyed one of the original enemies of men in that area.
it's a good story, but impuning a lot of this and we don't even know who King Arthur was and his Knights. I would NOT give First Nations any more credence that any other people's to say their stories just happened to dovetail into the trendy trend of the times. !!
@@HeronPoint2021 The story of King Arthur was made up wholesale and has no ancient origins though, before Geoffrey of Monmouth's history there are no mentions of anything resembling King Arthur. The best is a few mentions of a general named Arthur in the Annales Cambriae but earlier sources attribute those battles to different generals and historians suspect that the Annales were edited. Not to mention that Arthur as a name doesn't seem to be Welsh in origin but is instead Irish. We don't really know why Geoffrey made up Arthur but for some reason he did and he's the origin point of all Arthurian legend.
@@HeronPoint2021if an oral tradition has physical evidence of it actually happening, then people saw it happening. There is very little evidence for the story of king Arthur actually happening. As Milo said, there are no truly ancient stories from Britain due to it being relatively small with a high amount of population movement.
@@HeronPoint2021 The tribes mentioned actually have a methodology for oral transmission that supports the idea these are actual stories from the time. People have lived there a long time and they actually teach their children their stories in a way that they are able to repeat them correctly and accurately. If they were doing that back then, the stories would be correct. Since there is physical evidence of all of it, in addition to all the other anthropological evidence, it's pretty much proven fact.
@@Lutefisk445 In the West Country one burial mound was reputed to be the grave of a young prince. On digging it up that's pretty much what they found. Less than handful of of milenia though. There was a further case of a farmer's son being related to another such local burial mound grave skeleton; so perhaps not such a fluid population. Most folks in Britain are actually genetically Celts. Who ever came along the peasants endured.
*My theory:* Perhaps, storytelling remained important in the absence of writing and became an important skill in not only for the preservation of history, but also teaching in general - no classrooms, no textbooks, so hands on and _ears alert._ Also, due to remoteness, the influence of outside cultures didn't change their cosmology nor their way of life, which included storytelling. And if the act of being an orator became part of a man's identity, then the incentive to do so persisted to learn those narratives.
Also storytelling was a repeated group activity, which means if the storyteller made a mistake the group would correct it.
@@macdougdoug I imagine ancient people enjoyed stories in the same way we enjoy movies and TV. I don't really know how to describe the emotion I feel (nostalgia?) when I think about people 30,000 years ago sitting around the fire with rapt attention while they're told the story of the eruption at Budj Bim- which was already a 7 thousand year old story by that point.
@@macdougdougexcept groups are susceptible to the influence of a few or even one person. And even minor changes, seemingly insignificant, over time can result in major changes to the story.
This is well documented it’s not your theory
I'm from rural Vic, Australia. Our aboriginal people are ancient. Many traditional people's even have large brow ridges & oxipital buns. There stories are sung. They are beautiful!! They are ancient people walking amongst us & we need to protect & preserve this privilege
I haven't been all over the state, but travelling the Grampians is some of the best preservation I've seen of pre-settlement indigenous history in Victoria. It's awesome how small you feel looking at those paintings. Wish we had more of their history and destroyed less.
Maybe cool it with the phrenology
@@FeatureHistoryHistory only begins with written records.
Archaeology and anthropology deal with anything outside of that.
I still think they are a different species/pre homo sapien group
They are fully modern humans. All peoples are ancient, ie all of us have approx 300,000 years of homo sapien ancestry. Australian Aboriginal appearance is very varied as is the appearance within most groups around the world.
I am awestruck! Thanks Stefan, feelings I have never felt.
This is why I love your channel. Continuing the ancient stories told around campfires to our modern times. I'm in awe of any culture that would keep it's history alive that long. It really makes me wish we had a time machine to go back in time to see what it was really like to be a human in those times.
Always a pleasure. I am always fascinated by every thing you share.
For oral history to be passed down for over 7700 years like that describing in detail a volcanic eruption like this is honestly the most incredible part Over 250 generations have preserved this event with no written records of it.
Stefan, your joy and enthusiasm is infectious. Thank you for this presentation. Lazoma Chavez
My guesses for this are The Epic of Gilgamesh (just as an Honorary mention), Australian Aboriginal stories describing land formations now underwater, and the story of Callisto as carried into the Americas.
I definitely wonder if the old Sumerian flood story has its origin in one of the relatively rapid pulses of the flooding of the Persian/Arabian Gulf basin. If the Sumer folk migrated up the river, followed by the advancing water, then stopped around the location of Eridu, when the water quit following them, that would sure fit nicely with some of their myths, and a very old flood story.
Would also account for Sumerian being a language isolate, genetically unrelated to the local Semitic and Indo-European languages.
@@cacogenicist
I would not be surprised if some oral histories/legends about floods can be traced to either sea level rise or floods related to melt water release as the ice sheets retreated.
I would venture that a story from India, probably the IVC, precedes Gilgamesh. Particularly if we can translate their text
@@cacogenicistSorry, I'm not following your comment, could you explain it a bit? How do they travel up water with advancing flood water following them? You don't mean uphill?
@@pulse3554could you elaborate further, please?
Thank you for highlighting some awesome indigenous history in my home state. Guess I've got a 5 hour drive to plan now.
I love Crater lake! I grew up in Walla Walla, WA, but we had a lot of extended family in Oregon. We spent several summer family gatherings camping around Crater Lake. I have never heard the tales or facts about it's formation.
Nothing tickles me more than being reminded there's a real place named walla walla. In exchange for this delight, know there's a town over here in nc called boogertown
I've been there too. It is absolutely beautiful, more so now that I know its past and the stories about it.
I am always grateful to you for connecting me to our amazing history, thank you for your endeavors, Stefan you ground me in a most wonderful way, love to you and those dear to you.
Your videos are a service to mankind Stefan. Thank you❤
Mate your videos are ridiculously good these days. Love these ones where you travel
I have been following you for a long time and I like your style. Today you really made me laugh because of a t-shirt text I recently saw saying ... “ADHD Highway to... Hey Look A Squirrel!” You nearly pinpointed it with your chippmunk.
Love Crater Lake. I grew up in southwestern Oregon so we heard about Mt. Mazama quite a bit in elementary school. First National Park I ever visited.
It's always a good day when a new Stefan vid drops!
I've been home sick all day and watching your videos to pass the time and lo and behold, I checked your channel and there's another video out, wonderful!
There is so much to learn from traditional custodians! This is a really interesting topic.
Stefan has a very likable way about him in relating the subjects he brings to the viewing audience. Very nice.
These videos keep getting better, thanks for the upload!
so excited to see you talking about this topic!! my mom worked as a linguist with klamath elders when i was a baby, and she told me about this ancient story. so neat, i love oral history
Great vid as always, so cool how accurate oral histories can be
Your mileage may vary…😉
Wow to have someone as yourself interested in sharing your knowledge and able to explain it in manner that makes it more easily understood for the interested but under educated and how much more interesting you make it with your excitement and details, I so appreciate the opportunity to learn..... 😊
1,000 generations passing down the same story is absolutely awe inspiring.
May our descendents be so fortunate.
'Same story" That is unprovable, and highly doubtful.
In a sea of stodgy, stiff, dry and lifeless anthropological documentaries, your work sparkles with wit and charm. Thank you, Stephan, for communicating your enthusiasm for your topic so brilliantly.
Incredible passing on of seismic events for generations through storytelling. ❤
It seems like every friend or acquaintance that ever went west took photographs of Crater Lake and proudly shared them with us upon their return home. Oh look, another picture of Crater Lake, very pretty, yawn. You just brought it to life in this video. I am amazed at this story. Stefan, you have a gift for sharing your research while still remembering the initial spark of excitement that inspired you and passing that on to us. We are addicted to listening to your stories and always look forward to a new one. Thank You.
Love your videos Stefan, keep them coming, please :)
I appreciate all you do. Thanks for another amazing video to watch and ponder.
According to the Encyclopedia of Oregon, the big event was, as you say, 7700 years ago. But volcanic activity continued for about 3000 years, to 4800 years ago. So prior to the volcano going dormant, there would have been activity, for thousands of years, some of it similar to modern Hawaii or Iceland. That active could, in my opinion, easily reinforce an oral tradition. Even today, the hot springs and fumaroles in and around the park together with the continued activity of the Cascade range help keep the memory alive.
Thanks for that info. I wondered about that since it has a smaller volcanic cone in the middle of the lake. Alternatively the locals could have conjectured that the mountain used to be shaped like other mountains but somehow the top collapsed. The volcanism still coming from the lake could have inspired the fire aspect or perhaps witnessing of other more recent volcanic activity since it’s relatively common in the region.
Love learning history about my home state Oregon, especially from one of my favorite channels! Wonderful work on the video 👏🏻
Hi Stefan,
I have seen a few of your videos and like them very much. I hope you can continue and hopefuly more research will be made on our human evolution.
By the way, I love that slogan: no atlantis nos aliens no nonsense😅.
Keep it up .
Greetings from Germany
We love you. Hope you’re doing well. Great video
The second I saw this I knew it'd be Crater Lake! It's already covered in snow now
One year, think it was 2005 or 6, we went to see Crater Lake but were turned back by the Rangers before we were halfway up the winding road. Snow was still blocking the route. In June.
This is easily one of the coolest things I’ve ever learned. Amazing video man! Love the channel.
The oldest possible story I have heard of is the Seven Sisters star cluster, both Greek history and Aboriginal Australians have very similar stories of the Seven Sisters, furthermore in todays night sky only 6 of the stars are visible, however 100,000 years ago all 7 of the stars were visible, making the story likely to be at least 100,000 years old.
Damn even before pie times
Apparently the myths about the Pleiades refer to them as Seven Sisters, but the 7th star was last visible a full 100,000 years ago
Thank you, that was brilliant way of demonstrating the connection to country thru oral history.
This is just a layman's theory, but maybe people in the last 7700 years noticed it looks like it collapsed and didn't see the actual event?
There is evidence of human presence in eastern Oregon from more than 15K years before present, so there very likely were hunan observers of this volcanic event.
The story goes deeper. Look at the Toba catastrophe. That is the origin story.
I mean, we know that the surrounding area was inhabited 7,700 years ago, so we know that there were people there to witness it. The "lightning and fireballs" line to me implies at least a witness at some point, because if you thought it had just collapsed why mention the phenomenon of volcanic lightning? Seems like too specific a detail to have been made up, to me. That being said, we'll never know the actual origin of the story or how old it is. All we can do is apply occam's razor in conjunction with what we know for certain.
thank you for again another beautiful observation! I love watching your videos; eloquent, fun, thorough and enticing content, accessible without it being dumbed down. Love it Love it Love it!
It has been theorised that the Cornish story of 'Lyonesse' originates from when the Isles of Scilly were joined to the mainland around 12000 years ago. But for sure the story of 'Ennor' which means 'Great Island' in old Cornish is from when the Scillies were one island around 5000 years ago. And the Cornish name for St Michaels Mount is 'Karrek Loos yn Koos' or 'Grey Rock in the Woods'. It hasn't been in the woods for around 5000 years and is current 500m from the shore.
That’s a very Scilly story indeed. Awfully bad. Btw my stepdad is from Cornwall and I find that area’s history and the Cornish language to be extremely interesting. Thanks for the comment, I’m going to put on my deerstalker hat and look those tales up now.
Love how Welsh and Cornish are so similar. The Welsh word for 'in' is 'yn' (exactly like the Cornish language) and the Welsh word for 'rock' is 'carreg', said very similarly to 'Karrek'!
Could that also be the origin of the myth of Avalon?
It's possible that it's an older myth than the Arthurian fable we have been brought up on, it's not something I for one have studied closely. @@andyjay729
Such an awesome vid, visually and in the script writing. So cool to think about stories being passed down so many generations.
Hi Stefan. I always enjoy your videos. You asked about other volcanic crater lakes. The largest one in the world is Lake Toba on the island of Sumatra in Indonesia. It has a length of 100 km and 505 meters depth while Crater Lake is only 10 Km long and 594 meters deep. To a has about 10 times the volume of water. Both are very beautiful lakes. The big explosion for Toba was about 70,000 years ago and almost wiped out humankind. It is estimated that humans were reduced to only a few thousand who survived. This is one of the explanations given by scientists to explain why our DNA variance is less that other animal species. The Ring of Fire volcanic belt throughout Indonesia has many spectacular volcanoes including other more recent large eruptions such as Tambora, Krakatoa, and Rinjani. Tambora was perhaps the largest volcanic explosion in recent human history about 200 years ago. There are many legends, ceremonies, and beliefs about volcanoes in Indonesia as you would expect. I live in Indonesia but am originally from the Northwest in the USA.
I’d guess that the crater at Tambora is at least as large as the one at Crater lake, it just doesn’t have a lake in it
The chill air, the smell of the trees and plants and earth all rushed back for me during your video. And I could just sense how those people are living in Australia. Smell it😯
Oldest story that can be tracked, nearly every culture has a story regarding the Pleiades also known as the Seven Sisters. Thing is only 6 can be seen with the naked eye. The last time 7 individual stars would be able to be seen without optics was in 100,000 BCE. Yet every single myth and story references Seven. That is some deep time there.
you need to see eye doctor and go to a really rural area, out of USA and out of Europe. many people can see the seven stars. no joke. obviously where there is light pollution, like in all european countires and US states, the seven stars can not be seen. but in very rural places without light pollution at night, with normal healthy eyesight, they can be seen.
you must fallen for the romanticizing fake mythology stories to claim scientific abilities of humans in ancient times. (which usually are then connected to aliens visiting earth stories to differ apes and homo sapiens origins. they claim that homo sapiens do not come from australobipedicus but from highly intelligent beings from outer space. it serves to purpose to feed the human ego and make it to god like figure and far away from the reality that homo sapiens is an animal. we biologists have evidence of our last ancestor australobipedicus in africa)
Been following your thoughts and stories! Going to keep watching! Fascinating history…thank you 😊
Britains definitely got stories as old as that. England losing in every tournament despite having a “golden generation” is a tale as old as time!
I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm sure it sounds really clever to you.
@@slappy8941It’s a pretty funny football joke but I don’t get how it relates to the video
Shout out from Oregon! You're awesome. Im going to college for anthropology. Thank you for feeding my interest, and thank you for doing what you do. Cheers bro
Isn't there an alternative explanation? The local people looked at the landscape, at the slopes of the ridges etc. and realised: This must have been an mountain that collapsed? With other words: Using their common sense, they guessed the geological processes correctly?
fascinating, as usual. Thanks, Stefan, presented in your wonderfully jolly manner. Marvellous.
I was just at Crater Lake a month ago, visiting the area where I was born. Lovely to see your video of the place.
Hello Stefan. In regards to old stories and myth, Ancient Origins reported today about the earliest flood myth can be found in the Sumerian Tablets, Circa 2000 BC. So it seems stories can last a very long time, in regards to your video here. Maybe we do not give enough credence to the passage of oral traditions among people. The Indigenous peoples of many places around the world carry with them the many origin/creation stories. We know that scientists and researchers of old/and new do not put much credence in the abilities and stories of indigenous populations across time.
Once they hear spirits, gods, beasts and monsters, their minds shuts down. They forget the wise elders were trying to explain the unexplainable of those times. Supernatural entities fit the bill to describe events and theories, as it was easier accepted by tribe members.
Ancient Origins has come over a lot of scrutiny over the years, take things from them with a big grain of salt
Gosh I love this channel!❤
Yay! A new video from Milo!
Man I love your channel I live in central Oregon and we have such a rich history such as Paisley caves, Rim rock draw, Fort Rock etc. Excited you're/were here and to watch this!
It's thanks to Fort Rock that I know what a volcanic tuff cone is, and also why, when watching the 2015 James Bond film "Spectre" I was totally taken out of the moment when Blofeld explains how his crater layer was made by a meteor impact. Nuh-uh, that formation had all the hallmarks of a tuff cone. And so I looked it up later, and I was right!
Why yes, I do organize my spice rack alphabetically.
Wow This is a diversion for you. Are you taking interest in linguistic etymology too? It's heady. I don't read it, but I follow it here on YT.
I'm personally interested in it, but I'd never do a video on that without some expert help. I'm just having fun following my curiosity at the moment.
Love the video! Stefan is the embodiment of a golden retriever with his “ Chipmunk!” comment
chipmunnnnnnnnk!
Ancient history has these two ways to be passed down. Where written language is absent then word of mouth is the only alternative. Africa has tribal history that has survived by having designated people memorising complete family histories. Under these conditions all it takes is for one culture to exterminate another for that information to be lost for ever. Something human beings have " achieved" in their ignorance no doubt many times.
Thankyou for acknowledging the Gunditjmara people and their stories, Stefan.
♥️💛🖤
Always was, always will be.
I think in both cases, you have populations of humans on isolated islands/continents, without constant overturning of societies from external sources, so having these stories existing for such a long time over human history makes some sense.
Especially something as Cataclysmic as this!
Great video Stefan! I'm really happy you've been posting a lot more content recently!
It's wonderful, and sad, that 'amateurs' , sorry to say that, can produce more clear and interesting documentaries than billion dollar corporations. Please don't change your format and don't insert 'atmospheric' music. Keep going Stefan, we love you.
Thank you for your research, intelligence and passion.
Someone told me a story the other day about how when you die your soul continues its adventures in an afterlife dimension. I wonder how many 100s of thousands of years that story has been passed down? I hear Neanderthals have been known to bury their dead on a bed of flowers - but maybe that was for some other reason. Stories are important, they form beliefs, which affect actions - not surprising some people are worrying about ChatGPT.
Very cool, thank you for letting us know! I find it so fascinating how ancient some of these stories are, and how well they're passed down to us through so many generations!
How about the Gilgamesh/Noah flood? Maybe a prehistoric observation of sea level rise?
Maybe, could well be, just hard to date as accurately as a volcanic eruption in my opinion.
The Flood Myth definitely has origins in the Proto-Indo-European culture group, as it traveled along where many PIE descendent languages went.
nearly all indigenous tribes aroung the globe living close to river deltas have their own flood/apocalypse story especially after last iceage. its documented, google for sources. noah flood is just plain stolen from gilgamesh epos, and that flood story is not the only one existing in human history but refers to real water spilling of the river euphyrate in Turkiye and Iraq region.
they exaggerated a lot back in mesopotamian, later akkadian, semitic, hittite, cultures when describing simple things. river spilling became end of the world, even an apocalyptic event to have a dramatic story to tell so peoples attention would be caught. if you speak with old arabic, old persian old indian native, they tell stories , fairy tales with lots of superlatives. its part of their culture.
So exciting to see a video about the area where I live. Greetings from Central Oregon!
This was beautiful! Thank you for sharing ur passion w us! Much appreciated!!
Appreciate your channel, since reading Dan Flores book cannot get enough of this content. Ancient America
The production quality of this video is phenomenal!
You are one of my favorite people in the world. Thank you for taking time out of your life to produce these videos and also for not turning into a douchey YT creator :D
Amazing stuff as ever, Stefan! I definitely think that uninterrupted oral histories of indigenous communities around the world are great sources when looking at events in prehistory, there's a great Ted talk given in Adelaide this reminds me of from Jacinta Koolmatrie where she talks about memories of prehistoric megafauna in Australia co-existing with humans. Stressful out of the ordinary events, people are going to retell and remember