I am a exhaust tech a muffler shop. Vehicles that are driven alot so the exhaust system heats up [ eg Taxi and Police cars ] and dry out will last a very long time compared to the little old lady that goes to church and shopping once a week.
I tried to explain to my mother why her '98 Explorer had so many mechanical issues. She couldn't understand why driving only 40-50 miles a week, if not less, wasn't "taking care" of her car but neglecting it. The words never got through. She ended up selling when it took a shit a couple years ago. Rolling stone gathers no moss
A little over a year ago I bought a 2017 CVO that only had 5K miles. The shop told my they would change all the fluids and make sure everything was topped off and give it a good cleaning. When they delivered the bike, none of that had been done, the oil looked just like a a chocolate and vanilla milkshake. So they had to travel 5 hours to come back and get the bike, no way was I accepting that. I am pretty sure what you are talking about happened to my bike. A 5 year old bike with only 5K miles was not ridden hardly at all. I was worried about the motor being all rusted up, but haven't had a single problem with it. Thanks Kevin and stay warm Brother!!
I used to work at a gas station as a kid. It was a full service station with service bays and a tow truck. The tow truck was nice, fairly new as I remember. The exhaust system was rotted out. I remember they said their opinion was the way it was used caused the problem with the exhaust. The truck would be stored inside the service bays each evening and then put outside each morning. It didn't even go out on service calls very often. It was just run enough to go inside in the evening and outside the next morning which left ample moisture inside the exhaust system to do the type of damage you are talking about.
I only start my bike once or twice during the winter, when I just can't stand it anymore. Luckily the living room is climate controlled so it being cold isn't much of an issue. I always run a fan blowing from the front and my wife loves to throw bugs into it while I set on the bike and imagine blowing down the road. It always puts a big smile on my face, and yes I wear eye protection. Whatever gets you through the long cold night, right?
Kevin, don’t concern yourself with the moronic comments of those who clearly don’t understand combustion. The knowledge you have on all of the internal workings of an engine far exceed mine and is well above my pay grade. You broke it down to where it makes sense and I get it. Thanks for all of the info you put out and the time it takes to do it. It is much appreciated by most, if not all of us.
Calling open discussions - regardless of delivery, "moronic" says a lot about you. Hence why Kevin has our respect and you have no respect or credibility
Love it “ I’ve been doing this for years and never had a problem “ makes me laugh. I’ve found Hear in the UK every biker seems to be a well knowledgeable motorcycle mechanic who’s vast knowledge and opinion is right and everybody else’s wrong. Well not everyone but I’ve found a lot of them don’t know if it’s the same in the US but I have this conversation with people all the time telling them there doing them self no favours by doing doing it. I stripped a seized sportster and the oil came out like milk because for 2 years strait all the guy did was start it up in a garage for 10min every weekend so he could listen and enjoy the sound of his bike then left it for a few months wile he was working away. He learnt his lesson that day
Nice review, usually don’t ride till 50 degrees, but ride a minimum of 40 miles to make sure I go through a good heat cycle. Also change oil at 2000 miles to help with gas contamination, cheap insurance. Always learn from your tips, keep up the good work and stay well. Iook forward to an early spring visit, all the best, Bob.
Brilliant tutorial/conversation. I guess if one is on the internet, one will have to suffer fools. At 68yo and a motorhead since I was 12yo, your tutorials align with everything I've learned or read from reputable resources. Please continue enlightening us with your hard earned wisdom.
Thanks for this! I bought my first used harley in late fall. And seeing as it's winter & I can't ride, I love to listen to it & show my friends... I completely overlooked this & have immediately stopped doing since your other video. Makes total sense. Thank you for the great content!
Great video as always Kevin. I've been a licensed auto,, marine and motorcycle for almost 50 yrs... If I received a dime every time I mentioned it to clients please go and DRIVE your car,, motorcycle for a minimum of an hour a week.. especially marine engines, worse environment for an ICE.. lawnmowers, snowblowers,,etc. Wait until people figure out transmissions are just as destroyed by condensation.. lol.
I’m 61, and I remember when I was a teen being told that when an engine sat for long periods of time, flat spots on some bearings could develop. It wasn’t defined what how long “long periods of time” was though. I know when storing a car, it’s best practice to put the car on stands to take the weight off the wheel bearings and tires. I’ve experienced the flat spots on tires so I know “some” of that has a bit of truth to it. Now, I’m on board 100% on not starting an engine and just let it idle. I’ve heard it needs to be driven at least 10 miles to bring it up to full op temp. But absent the potentially bone chilling ride in some climates, wouldn’t occasional rotation of the engine without firing be beneficial? What in talking about is akin to pulling the spark plugs, putting it in high gear and just bumping the rear tire a bit, just enough to put things in a different spot then putting the plugs back in. Or am I just overthinking the whole thing?
I can understand the negative comments from some who have never had a problem. It’s my opinion that you’re an expert because of your experience. The comments remind me why I severely limit my communications on social media having walked away from Fb and others over 6 yrs ago. What I learned in my brief experience with social media is there are always detractors. If I claimed a turd probably tasted bad? Somebody would want to argue the point. . In taking the advice I’ve always heard about not arguing with those that talk a lot but don’t listen. I just remove myself from the idiocy. Great Vlog Sir. I will follow your advice.
A bit off topic, but bc of you, your expertise, your channel.., i continue to be inspired to continue to learn and work on my own bikes... Thank you kevin
Kevin, As of today, I am 100% caught up in all of your UA-cam content. I started this endeavor back in October to watch all of your video content from a search I had done to get my bike tuned which led me to Rob Swartz of Rob's Dyno ("plug" who does outstanding work) which in turn put me on to your video of your trip north to Rob's shop... And Bam! I was hooked on Baxter’s Garage. You are truly a credit to your profession with an authentic approach. I believe your leading the way with content such as yours. Wishing you all the best with the new shop. Thank you for all your efforts you’re putting forward for all to see. Much appreciated and always learning.
I was told as a kid by my mate who was an apprentice mechanic. I was the panel beater , an engine has its most wear in the first 5 minutes of startup. As said. Taxies and police cars do 3,400000 miles when a std car wont before an engine build. Now for petrol in oil. Just have a shovel engine and leave the petrol tap on over night and kick it. And the breather spits petrol on the floor lol. Yeh and some oil.
I have 3 HD bikes. I try to ride each bike a week out. Here in Florida we had 40 degrees this morning. 50 in my garage! Sometimes I will bring all 3 out and let them idol for up to 30 minutes. My pan america is watercooled and that rad temp gets over 200° the point is I can see moisture exit the exhaust from the cobra pipes on my 2016 road king. So I know there's moisture in there. One of my riding members asked me about the rust in her exhaust and I informed her if she's going to own a bike she needs to get out and ride more. The worst thing you can do is just let the bike just sit. Running it for just a few minutes is not a solution. At least go around the block a few times to get that engine up to operating Temps. Another neighbor has 23 bikes! He's actually got plugs for all the exhaust systems! But I warned him it's not enough. So folks, get out there and ride, and be safe!😊🏍✌️👍
Thanks Kevin, You have described exactly what has happened to me with a new bike (500 miles) that I bought used. It had been started many many times never reaching temp over time, finally I started it to sell it and it blew tons off white smoke. I didn't know what was going on but now I do. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge I have learned a ton. Kevin
Hey Kevin, I just ran across your vids for the 1st time and have listened to your expertise with an open mind. I've only been riding Harley's for 7-years now (before I had Suzuki Intruders, both 600 and 1400 cc), and owned 2-Harley's (with a '01 Deuce on the way!) and love 'em! I was guilty of doing just as you said in the 1st install of "Never Do This" to your Harley. I had a '07 Dyna FXDB (and a '12 Triglide) that would sometimes sit for weeks (sometimes months) at a time without riding. They were on a tender's and I thought, well, what better way to keep the innards lubricated, gaskets and all, than to just crank 'em up and do a few revs then just let them sit idling for 10-15 mins! I don't know how much damage I did to the heads, pistons, etc. in either bike by doing this over a period of a few years as both are no longer in my possession (donated both to the VA after my wife passed-away having lost the will to ride). I've since realized I've missed riding (my wife also rode) and found a Deuce that I've just purchased. I will NOT be starting her up and just letting her idle after watching your vids...thank you for contributing to my ongoing Harley education! Sincerely, Don F. - Las Cruces, NM
Kevin, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying on this subject. When my bikes are not expected to be ridden for some period i have them on Battery Tenders. When I do decide to take one out it's very seldom less than 50-75 miles, and usually more. Just the way I ride. Thank you for all you do - we all have things to learn and I appreciate your efforts!!
I loved your first video, it finally explained what I was taught over 40 years ago by my old school neighbor biker. If you start your bike in the winter you have to let it run until it reaches operating temp (till it's hot) then let it run some more. So I have always done that not really knowing why, it was obviously now that I know to get the water out of the system. IE Dry the engine out fully before shutting it down.
Kevin, I have been in involved in fabrication for a long time and heating steel with oxy set you will see water build up on the surface again and again. Moisture is in all items.
I have an '02 Road Star (carbureted) the last time I started it, the weather was minimally crappy so I took it out and got it thoughly warmed up and ran the fuel system dry because I saw how much too rich it was at idle, and I didn't want to leave the carb full of gas!!
This situation is much more exaggerated in outboard boat engines that are used during the winter months as ours are . In that cold water/humid atmosphere , if the outboards thermostats stick in the open position, which is common, the engine doesn’t reach operating temperature and the crankcase will fill with so much condensate so quickly that the engine will be foaming out every breather and fill hole it has. This will happen with just a few hours of operation . The cold water and the humid atmosphere is what exaggerates this situation. You’ll swear you’ve got a blown head gasket or cracked head or block. I never short run anything of mine during the winter.
I watched both videos, and it's nice to hear that I'm not an idiot. I have a couple guys at work that just got their first bikes and commented that they were going to start their bikes once a month through the winter. I said "don't do that...let it sleep. Don't start it, unless you plan to ride it!" Maybe it's common sense to me, or maybe my understanding of physics, I don't know. I've seen people need a jump start, then immediately shut it off and then restart it to make sure it restarts, and then shut it off again *facepalm*. (my sister just did that the other day, lol) SUBSCRIBING!
My friend, Brian, national sports car champion, told me the same thing I ride my motorcycle long distances. He said that does. Not hurt The engine, short trips to the grocery store, gas station back home that kills the engine due to the rush buildup from the water in the oil
I've seen rusted internal transmission and engine parts from this practice. I've also seen, after very short work commutes over extended periods of time where piston rings were literally locked into the ring lands by varnish.
I've seen engine oil turn to a molasses / pudding like consistency over a winter season of cold short run starts, after seeing it effects, I stopped that lunacy many years ago, this was on my '98 FXSTS {Cold southern New England winters}
Kevin, thanks for all your great videos and information. Another factor to consider is road salt if you live in snow country. It gets into everything on a motorcycle even if the roads are dry, salt is still there.
I remember leaving Buffalo New York when it was 15° and my bikes wouldn't start I loaded them on the trailer when I got to Florida they started right up
Kevin great videos as always and very on point on knowledge, I have been viewing you videos for some time and applied you advice to my Harley’s, keep it up, because it helps a lot of us out here trying to learn ! Thank you for taking the time to help us,
Damn boy...bet you didn't think that was going to be such a big can of worms that it was ..!! Crazy how some have no idea what you are talking about...it's the same for electrians...if you can't see it ...some just can grasp it at all ..!!! But most here do I believe...keep up the good work , you doing great!!!
Hi from the UK , I never start my 2017 fat bob unless I can get it to running temperature and keep riding for at least thirty minutes , this is the only way to vent off the moisture saturation in the oil 🏍🤙🧐
Glad I live in Southern Alabama. We can ride our bikes all winter. We do have some cold days but many days over 50 deg F that are very nice to ride in. Thanks for your Vids
sound advice ! never thought about it much being a problem but when you look at it with the proper knowledge like you do it becomes clear to the value of you r sharing !
I've seen cream colored milky oil come out of a training bike at school when all the bike was used for is startups, let it run for 1-2mins then shut it off a few times a day every day. After a few weeks the oil gets so much water in it that you just throw it out and start over. That is an extreme example, but it proves that what Kevin is saying to be fact. Something else that I never ever try to do is start a cold bike in gear with the clutch in. The reason is that after the bikes has sat for a while and cooled down, the clutch plates become hydro-locked. This is why when you start a cold bike in gear you get a big surge, even with the clutch lever pulled in all the way. This will put a lot of strain on the starter and battery, and drive components. Always start a cold bike in neutral. If you stall your bike out on the road yes you have to pull in the clutch lever and start the bike in gear. This is not so bad because everything is hot, and the plate haven't created as much of a bond. I've had people say this is a load, but I just smile and move on. Do what you want, it's your bike.
It takes an engine 25 miles of continuous operation (driving/riding) at normal highway speeds just to burn off the condensation that engine built up just on that particular cold start and to charge the battery back up the level of charge during that cold start. In short, if you start a engine, drive or ride that transportation device a minimum of 25 miles before stopping the engine. Period. End of discussion.
I agree whole heartedly I experienced over heating letting my bike run in the winter and condensation at an early age. Needless to say I prep the bike and just look at the bike through the winter. When I'm ready till riding season.
Good sound advice and explanation as to why you should not do this. This world has many people that think they know more than an expert who has devoted themselves to a trade or skill set. You can give sound advice but you can’t make people heed it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Kevin, I appreciate it and find it interesting.
I'm not a Tech but i do some maintenance on my bike and truck. You can talk over my head real easily but most topics like this you make real easy to understand. Why in this day and age if someone disagrees someone they feel compelled to respond? If you don't have something nice to say dont say anything is how I was raised. Thank you for the information.
Kevin, here in Texas Hill Country, we ride year round. So I’ve rarely had the bike sitting for long periods of time. Along with that, I use a trickle charger whenever it’s in the garage. That said, after neck surgery two years ago, I went a while without being able to ride. Wish I’d heard your advice before that time. Still, I’ve not noted any ill on the bike effects, so far. It runs great. (2007 FLHTCUI2) Thanks for sharing your valuable expertise.
Thanks for the information. I have been riding for over 50 years and never really thought about it. I do let my engine run at least 15 minutes to let it get good and warm.
Yes Kevin, I believe all you said and have seen some of this cold start problems, I 9 time out of 10 ride/drive a vehicle on te street a bit because if this👍thank you…
I was told to let an auto engine run 15 minutes to get the moisture out. Other wise you can make a sludge engine. I do see the heated engine blocks do make difference in winter.
There will always be Internet cowboys who want to argue just to argue. I'm one for taking what you like and leave the rest. I think your video did us all a solid on the topic. Keep 'em coming please. Maybe do a video on the benefits and myths of K&N air filters v. stock HD filters. I'm not talking about a complete stage one, just swapping out the filter-is there a benefit?
hey Kevin, I recently found your channel and have since learned a lot about my own Harley in particular but also motorcycles in general. Have you ever done a video comparing belt drive to chain drive? I'm currently in the process of converting my '22 Street Bob 114 to a chain drive.
Wish I had a garage, What I do to help the bike throughout the year / temperature change’s / condensation. I have a little tarp building I made 12x6 and I cut a square out the side the sun doesn’t hit in the morning and added a box fan on low speed beside it and that keeps it from condensating all over the motor for the spring / fall cold nights into the warm mornings. I definitely notice if I don’t have that fan on my motor sweats like a waterfall, then the fan on it’s perfectly dry. Also winter time I run 15-40 so it’s easier on starts. Been doing this for 6+ years and no problems
I never start my Harly up if I am not riding @ lease over 25 miles are more I was told when I bought my first Harley in 1992 so I didn’t because I didn’t want a lot of compensation in the pipes
I have noticed some motorcycle engines the oil reserve empties into cranckcase. So when starting all that oil is making a harder start and very thick in winter or cold.
We run mower in and out of the show room in the morning and it builds conditions in the oil and we have to change the oil on new mower after we run them in short time
Water doesn’t have to boil to be pulled out of oil. It will evaporate at a rather rapid pace at any temp above ambient. Of course this assumes the humidity is low enough for the atmosphere to accept the vapor (i. e., not 100%).
No it doesn't. Your sidewalk gets nowhere near boiling temperature when it dries out. Ice cubes shrink when they're kept in your freezer for a long time, due to sublimation. There are hundreds of other examples. Water certainly evaporates more quickly at higher temperatures. But 212 degree temperatures aren't required.
I never started it in the winter living in New England before and I put it away pull the plugs pour some marvelous mystery oils in put plugs back spring comes pull plugs spin it over blows out MMO out 🇺🇸🤙
First... I'm not a Harley guy... Still I very much enjoy your expertise shown in these videos. I agree with your perspectives on cold winter start... This week it's -20c or -4 F scale. I agree I never start my bike ( a Goldwing) from October to April. In regards to lubrication and washing the cylinder head with excess fuel before the oil has a chance to lubricate... The Goldwing has a "feature" where if you turn the throttle full on and hold it in the 100% position at startup... The fuel injection does NOT send fuel into the cylinders. This allows oil to be pumped the engine cavities. They say do that for 10 seconds, then start normally. My question is : do Harley M8 bikes do this or is a metric bike thing. Smart for that first spring start up or after long periods of non use. Thoughts? Thanks again for these informative videos
Nice advice, Don't know if this is true or where I heard it, I own a 19 King, when you crank it the PCM does not allow spark or fuel for a couple revolutions to pump some oil. Sounds like a good idea. Your explanation of Honda's feature is smart, I'm a retired auto mechanic and most fuel injection vehicles had the "clear flood" feature by holding throttle wide open no fuel... remember the old days of carb. where you hold throttle and choke wide open when flooded... more air. Thanks for the comment, would like to hear from other harley owners if they know anything about it.
Thats a nice feature my bikes dont have. Instead for the first start up of the riding season I pull the plugs and crank several times until oil pressure is present.
Hey Kevin, good follow up. Simple yes are not question not related to this. Can a timken bearing conversion be done on the M8 engine? I have never heard of anyone doing this.
Hi from Uk thanks for confirming im kinda doing right for my harley not starting and running on the spot air cooled i have alway thought are overheating or near too by the time the oil gets anywhere near hot enought liquid cool i thinks ok if you run long enough for the fans to come on thanks again
Interesting and highly informative, I will surmise most motorcycles at dealers take a beating in oil department because of start-ups for moving out for display and showing bikes to customers very minimal actual run time. I ride year-round weather permitting 45F and up usually, bikes stored in a ride out basement garage that's about 50-55F it would be interesting your thoughts hydroscopic related to mineral oil vs synthetic oil my belief was synthetic attracts and holds more moisture and takes a bit longer to boil it out than mineral oils. As always Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Kevin, I used to do that in the winter start my bike every so often and the Harley dealership told me the same thing you just said. Now I just put the battery tender on it in the winter, then in the spring before I start the engine, I pulled up fuel pump fuse and turn the engine over until I get oil pressure and then I put the fuse back in and start the engine. I was just wondering does that help the engine priming at first after sittingall winter
Is it possible one contributing factor is the manufacturing of metals and metal components? US metals (steel, aluminum, etc) were once proudly made with quality here in the states. I am unsure where the raw materials or even finished components that HD uses are sourced. ** A footnote: Many Harley Dealers move bikes daily. They put them out in the morning and bring them in at night. Possibly another contributing factor for anyone with that much rust and only 300 or so miles.
Spot on with the mechanism of injury to the engine. I used my bike daily for rides to work some 15 miles each way, parked in AC equipped garage both home and at work. When I pulled the jugs off due to top end noise I found that besides some carbon buildup there was cement like substance in left corners of both exhaust pockets,the side a parked bike leans to. I assume that is the result of condensation from rapid cooling flowing to the lowest point on top of piston and kind of sedimenting there, being baked by combustion process thereafter. The buildup was thick enough to cause valve contact, so now I have new valves, freshly honed cylinders with new rings, new lifters, and bike parks outside. What do you think of my assumption?
Good stuff.. How do you feel about adding some aircraft 20-50 storage oil to the crank case prior to long term storage. Then changing it out for the riding season? I do this to diesel engines that are stored for more than 6 months. Storage oil is a slightly sticky oil that coats surfaces and does not slowly flow down into the crank case over time.
Good morning, just a quick question, I have a 06 Ultra Classic screaming eagle CVO, I'm concerned about the cam chain tensioners, did this bike come with the hydraulic or spring tensioners, love your videos
Kevin, thank you for your advice, here’s a question for you: do you recommend changing the oil right before storing the bike before winter? I have mixed thoughts on this, yes definitely if you don’t ride your bike very much through out the summer, but don’t feel the necessity if you ride a lot as long as its not due for an oil change. I have done both , but as the past few years just wait till spring and give it a fresh change. I feel the oil is oil and as long as its been ridden and have had many long rides to evaporate any condensation there really very little if any moisture left in the oil>
Is it also a good practice to change oil first thing in the spring? I've been doing this for years, mostly due to the limited riding we can do here in the winter.
Not only does it harm the engine, but exterior surfaces that heat up and cool will more easily corrode. Also keep gas tank full to the brim with ethanol stabilizer. I run mine through with stabilizer before I store. Then I leave it until Spring.
How do you feel about fogging oil for winter storage? I typically fog mine, and a few buddies always say you're wasting your time. But really, it doesn't take long.
I keep mine on a tender but i still start mine and let it run as if im going on a ride. I also like to do it to run some fuel threw it even though i put star tron fuel treatment in it.
I am a exhaust tech a muffler shop. Vehicles that are driven alot so the exhaust system heats up [ eg Taxi and Police cars ] and dry out will last a very long time compared to the little old lady that goes to church and shopping once a week.
I tried to explain to my mother why her '98 Explorer had so many mechanical issues. She couldn't understand why driving only 40-50 miles a week, if not less, wasn't "taking care" of her car but neglecting it. The words never got through. She ended up selling when it took a shit a couple years ago. Rolling stone gathers no moss
Kevin there will always be negative contrary people. The other 99% of us love your information and help. Thank you!
I would surely trust Kevins advice,look at the background.The guy is a machinst,mechanic and Harley-Davidson expert,what more do you want.
A little over a year ago I bought a 2017 CVO that only had 5K miles. The shop told my they would change all the fluids and make sure everything was topped off and give it a good cleaning. When they delivered the bike, none of that had been done, the oil looked just like a a chocolate and vanilla milkshake. So they had to travel 5 hours to come back and get the bike, no way was I accepting that. I am pretty sure what you are talking about happened to my bike. A 5 year old bike with only 5K miles was not ridden hardly at all. I was worried about the motor being all rusted up, but haven't had a single problem with it. Thanks Kevin and stay warm Brother!!
I used to work at a gas station as a kid. It was a full service station with service bays and a tow truck. The tow truck was nice, fairly new as I remember. The exhaust system was rotted out. I remember they said their opinion was the way it was used caused the problem with the exhaust. The truck would be stored inside the service bays each evening and then put outside each morning. It didn't even go out on service calls very often. It was just run enough to go inside in the evening and outside the next morning which left ample moisture inside the exhaust system to do the type of damage you are talking about.
I only start my bike once or twice during the winter, when I just can't stand it anymore.
Luckily the living room is climate controlled so it being cold isn't much of an issue.
I always run a fan blowing from the front and my wife loves to throw bugs into it while I set on the bike and imagine blowing down the road. It always puts a big smile on my face, and yes I wear eye protection.
Whatever gets you through the long cold night, right?
That's funny. An if'n its true i need to come over n watch that. Or maybe take my bike over n do a living room ride wit cha. Ha ha ha ha.
Kevin, don’t concern yourself with the moronic comments of those who clearly don’t understand combustion. The knowledge you have on all of the internal workings of an engine far exceed mine and is well above my pay grade. You broke it down to where it makes sense and I get it. Thanks for all of the info you put out and the time it takes to do it. It is much appreciated by most, if not all of us.
My understanding is that water-cooled engines are even more suspect if not properly warmed up
Calling open discussions - regardless of delivery, "moronic" says a lot about you. Hence why Kevin has our respect and you have no respect or credibility
Love it “ I’ve been doing this for years and never had a problem “ makes me laugh. I’ve found Hear in the UK every biker seems to be a well knowledgeable motorcycle mechanic who’s vast knowledge and opinion is right and everybody else’s wrong. Well not everyone but I’ve found a lot of them don’t know if it’s the same in the US but I have this conversation with people all the time telling them there doing them self no favours by doing doing it. I stripped a seized sportster and the oil came out like milk because for 2 years strait all the guy did was start it up in a garage for 10min every weekend so he could listen and enjoy the sound of his bike then left it for a few months wile he was working away. He learnt his lesson that day
Absolutely , well said sir 🤙🏍🧐
Once it's in winter storage I don't start it unless it runs for minimum of 30min and generally only after I did engine work to it
I don't have a heated garage but on the battery tender under one roof,all three of them 😊
Nice review, usually don’t ride till 50 degrees, but ride a minimum of 40 miles to make sure I go through a good heat cycle. Also change oil at 2000 miles to help with gas contamination, cheap insurance. Always learn from your tips, keep up the good work and stay well. Iook forward to an early spring visit, all the best, Bob.
Brilliant tutorial/conversation. I guess if one is on the internet, one will have to suffer fools. At 68yo and a motorhead since I was 12yo, your tutorials align with everything I've learned or read from reputable resources. Please continue enlightening us with your hard earned wisdom.
Thanks for this! I bought my first used harley in late fall. And seeing as it's winter & I can't ride, I love to listen to it & show my friends... I completely overlooked this & have immediately stopped doing since your other video. Makes total sense. Thank you for the great content!
Great video as always Kevin. I've been a licensed auto,, marine and motorcycle for almost 50 yrs... If I received a dime every time I mentioned it to clients please go and DRIVE your car,, motorcycle for a minimum of an hour a week.. especially marine engines, worse environment for an ICE.. lawnmowers, snowblowers,,etc. Wait until people figure out transmissions are just as destroyed by condensation.. lol.
I’m 61, and I remember when I was a teen being told that when an engine sat for long periods of time, flat spots on some bearings could develop.
It wasn’t defined what how long “long periods of time” was though.
I know when storing a car, it’s best practice to put the car on stands to take the weight off the wheel bearings and tires. I’ve experienced the flat spots on tires so I know “some” of that has a bit of truth to it.
Now, I’m on board 100% on not starting an engine and just let it idle. I’ve heard it needs to be driven at least 10 miles to bring it up to full op temp. But absent the potentially bone chilling ride in some climates, wouldn’t occasional rotation of the engine without firing be beneficial? What in talking about is akin to pulling the spark plugs, putting it in high gear and just bumping the rear tire a bit, just enough to put things in a different spot then putting the plugs back in.
Or am I just overthinking the whole thing?
I can understand the negative comments from some who have never had a problem. It’s my opinion that you’re an expert because of your experience. The comments remind me why I severely limit my communications on social media having walked away from Fb and others over 6 yrs ago. What I learned in my brief experience with social media is there are always detractors. If I claimed a turd probably tasted bad? Somebody would want to argue the point. . In taking the advice I’ve always heard about not arguing with those that talk a lot but don’t listen. I just remove myself from the idiocy. Great Vlog Sir. I will follow your advice.
A bit off topic, but bc of you, your expertise, your channel.., i continue to be inspired to continue to learn and work on my own bikes...
Thank you kevin
Kevin, As of today, I am 100% caught up in all of your UA-cam content. I started this endeavor back in October to watch all of your video content from a search I had done to get my bike tuned which led me to Rob Swartz of Rob's Dyno ("plug" who does outstanding work) which in turn put me on to your video of your trip north to Rob's shop... And Bam! I was hooked on Baxter’s Garage. You are truly a credit to your profession with an authentic approach. I believe your leading the way with content such as yours. Wishing you all the best with the new shop. Thank you for all your efforts you’re putting forward for all to see. Much appreciated and always learning.
I was told as a kid by my mate who was an apprentice mechanic. I was the panel beater , an engine has its most wear in the first 5 minutes of startup. As said. Taxies and police cars do 3,400000 miles when a std car wont before an engine build.
Now for petrol in oil. Just have a shovel engine and leave the petrol tap on over night and kick it. And the breather spits petrol on the floor lol. Yeh and some oil.
I have 3 HD bikes. I try to ride each bike a week out. Here in Florida we had 40 degrees this morning. 50 in my garage! Sometimes I will bring all 3 out and let them idol for up to 30 minutes. My pan america is watercooled and that rad temp gets over 200° the point is I can see moisture exit the exhaust from the cobra pipes on my 2016 road king. So I know there's moisture in there. One of my riding members asked me about the rust in her exhaust and I informed her if she's going to own a bike she needs to get out and ride more. The worst thing you can do is just let the bike just sit. Running it for just a few minutes is not a solution. At least go around the block a few times to get that engine up to operating Temps. Another neighbor has 23 bikes! He's actually got plugs for all the exhaust systems! But I warned him it's not enough. So folks, get out there and ride, and be safe!😊🏍✌️👍
Thanks Kevin,
You have described exactly what has happened to me with a new bike (500 miles) that I bought used. It had been started many many times never reaching temp over time, finally I started it to sell it and it blew tons off white smoke. I didn't know what was going on but now I do. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge I have learned a ton. Kevin
Hey Kevin, I just ran across your vids for the 1st time and have listened to your expertise with an open mind. I've only been riding Harley's for 7-years now (before I had Suzuki Intruders, both 600 and 1400 cc), and owned 2-Harley's (with a '01 Deuce on the way!) and love 'em! I was guilty of doing just as you said in the 1st install of "Never Do This" to your Harley. I had a '07 Dyna FXDB (and a '12 Triglide) that would sometimes sit for weeks (sometimes months) at a time without riding. They were on a tender's and I thought, well, what better way to keep the innards lubricated, gaskets and all, than to just crank 'em up and do a few revs then just let them sit idling for 10-15 mins! I don't know how much damage I did to the heads, pistons, etc. in either bike by doing this over a period of a few years as both are no longer in my possession (donated both to the VA after my wife passed-away having lost the will to ride). I've since realized I've missed riding (my wife also rode) and found a Deuce that I've just purchased. I will NOT be starting her up and just letting her idle after watching your vids...thank you for contributing to my ongoing Harley education!
Sincerely, Don F. - Las Cruces, NM
Kevin, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying on this subject. When my bikes are not expected to be ridden for some period i have them on Battery Tenders. When I do decide to take one out it's very seldom less than 50-75 miles, and usually more. Just the way I ride. Thank you for all you do - we all have things to learn and I appreciate your efforts!!
I loved your first video, it finally explained what I was taught over 40 years ago by my old school neighbor biker. If you start your bike in the winter you have to let it run until it reaches operating temp (till it's hot) then let it run some more. So I have always done that not really knowing why, it was obviously now that I know to get the water out of the system. IE Dry the engine out fully before shutting it down.
Kevin, I have been in involved in fabrication for a long time and heating steel with oxy set you will see water build up on the surface again and again. Moisture is in all items.
I have an '02 Road Star (carbureted) the last time I started it, the weather was minimally crappy so I took it out and got it thoughly warmed up and ran the fuel system dry because I saw how much too rich it was at idle, and I didn't want to leave the carb full of gas!!
Anyone, IMO, who questions you will come to you in the end.
I don't start mine anymore 😊
If you have to park it for the winter do a full service and fill the fuel tank with non alcohol fuel. Put it in a battery tender and leavi it alone.
This situation is much more exaggerated in outboard boat engines that are used during the winter months as ours are . In that cold water/humid atmosphere , if the outboards thermostats stick in the open position, which is common, the engine doesn’t reach operating temperature and the crankcase will fill with so much condensate so quickly that the engine will be foaming out every breather and fill hole it has. This will happen with just a few hours of operation . The cold water and the humid atmosphere is what exaggerates this situation. You’ll swear you’ve got a blown head gasket or cracked head or block. I never short run anything of mine during the winter.
I watched both videos, and it's nice to hear that I'm not an idiot. I have a couple guys at work that just got their first bikes and commented that they were going to start their bikes once a month through the winter. I said "don't do that...let it sleep. Don't start it, unless you plan to ride it!"
Maybe it's common sense to me, or maybe my understanding of physics, I don't know. I've seen people need a jump start, then immediately shut it off and then restart it to make sure it restarts, and then shut it off again *facepalm*. (my sister just did that the other day, lol) SUBSCRIBING!
My friend, Brian, national sports car champion, told me the same thing I ride my motorcycle long distances. He said that does. Not hurt The engine, short trips to the grocery store, gas station back home that kills the engine due to the rush buildup from the water in the oil
I've seen rusted internal transmission and engine parts from this practice.
I've also seen, after very short work commutes over extended periods of time where piston rings were literally locked into the ring lands by varnish.
I've seen engine oil turn to a molasses / pudding like consistency over a winter season of cold short run starts, after seeing it effects, I stopped that lunacy many years ago, this was on my '98 FXSTS {Cold southern New England winters}
Great info kev.
Love your channel mate 👍
Absolutely sound advice right there. I never start my bike in the winter months for the exact reason you talked about.
Great video.Thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge much appreciated.
The worst is when. salesperson at the dealership starts a bike in the showroom and immediately revs it up and then shuts it right off. I grinch
And its always the 1 bike that your really interested in lol
Kevin, thanks for all your great videos and information. Another factor to consider is road salt if you live in snow country. It gets into everything on a motorcycle even if the roads are dry, salt is still there.
I remember leaving Buffalo New York when it was 15° and my bikes wouldn't start I loaded them on the trailer when I got to Florida they started right up
Yes always great videos! Extremely informative and almost always backed up with the evidence. Great job Kevin!
Awsome video for a crazy cold day here in TN
Thank you for the video very helpful and please keep up the great work
Makes sense to me. Thank you for the information Kevin.
Kevin great videos as always and very on point on knowledge, I have been viewing you videos for some time and applied you advice to my Harley’s, keep it up, because it helps a lot of us out here trying to learn ! Thank you for taking the time to help us,
I like the way you explain things, so easy to understand.
Damn boy...bet you didn't think that was going to be such a big can of worms that it was ..!! Crazy how some have no idea what you are talking about...it's the same for electrians...if you can't see it ...some just can grasp it at all ..!!! But most here do I believe...keep up the good work , you doing great!!!
Great video I had no idea thank you 😊
Hi from the UK , I never start my 2017 fat bob unless I can get it to running temperature and keep riding for at least thirty minutes , this is the only way to vent off the moisture saturation in the oil 🏍🤙🧐
Hopefully I’ll be able to get my bike out in late march. Thanks!
Glad I live in Southern Alabama. We can ride our bikes all winter. We do have some cold days but many days over 50 deg F that are very nice to ride in. Thanks for your Vids
sound advice ! never thought about it much being a problem but when you look at it with the proper knowledge like you do it becomes clear to the value of you r sharing !
Great video as always
Came across this video by acciden and im glad I did , great advice....🤘🤘
Kevin, appreciate your efforts to teach others, there loss if they are unable to listen to your wise words
I've seen cream colored milky oil come out of a training bike at school when all the bike was used for is startups, let it run for 1-2mins then shut it off a few times a day every day. After a few weeks the oil gets so much water in it that you just throw it out and start over. That is an extreme example, but it proves that what Kevin is saying to be fact. Something else that I never ever try to do is start a cold bike in gear with the clutch in. The reason is that after the bikes has sat for a while and cooled down, the clutch plates become hydro-locked. This is why when you start a cold bike in gear you get a big surge, even with the clutch lever pulled in all the way. This will put a lot of strain on the starter and battery, and drive components. Always start a cold bike in neutral. If you stall your bike out on the road yes you have to pull in the clutch lever and start the bike in gear. This is not so bad because everything is hot, and the plate haven't created as much of a bond. I've had people say this is a load, but I just smile and move on. Do what you want, it's your bike.
Great information as usual Kevin
It takes an engine 25 miles of continuous operation (driving/riding) at normal highway speeds just to burn off the condensation that engine built up just on that particular cold start and to charge the battery back up the level of charge during that cold start. In short, if you start a engine, drive or ride that transportation device a minimum of 25 miles before stopping the engine. Period. End of discussion.
Like my wife says- don't touch me unless you mean business.
Thanks for the lesson.
I agree whole heartedly I experienced over heating letting my bike run in the winter and condensation at an early age. Needless to say I prep the bike and just look at the bike through the winter. When I'm ready till riding season.
Good sound advice and explanation as to why you should not do this. This world has many people that think they know more than an expert who has devoted themselves to a trade or skill set. You can give sound advice but you can’t make people heed it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Kevin, I appreciate it and find it interesting.
Thank you Kevin , for that information,so now I know not to do that practice.
Always informative 👍
Brother I was so glad 2 come across this video. I myself have been guilty of this. I no longer do it anymore. Totally makes sense ty
I'm not a Tech but i do some maintenance on my bike and truck. You can talk over my head real easily but most topics like this you make real easy to understand. Why in this day and age if someone disagrees someone they feel compelled to respond? If you don't have something nice to say dont say anything is how I was raised. Thank you for the information.
Thanks Kevin...🏍️👍🏆
Kevin, here in Texas Hill Country, we ride year round. So I’ve rarely had the bike sitting for long periods of time. Along with that, I use a trickle charger whenever it’s in the garage.
That said, after neck surgery two years ago, I went a while without being able to ride. Wish I’d heard your advice before that time. Still, I’ve not noted any ill on the bike effects, so far. It runs great.
(2007 FLHTCUI2)
Thanks for sharing your valuable expertise.
Thanks for the information. I have been riding for over 50 years and never really thought about it. I do let my engine run at least 15 minutes to let it get good and warm.
Good video man i agree.
Good stuff,appreciate you brother 👍☕️☕️✌️
Yes Kevin, I believe all you said and have seen some of this cold start problems, I 9 time out of 10 ride/drive a vehicle on te street a bit because if this👍thank you…
I was told to let an auto engine run 15 minutes to get the moisture out. Other wise you can make a sludge engine. I do see the heated engine blocks do make difference in winter.
There will always be Internet cowboys who want to argue just to argue. I'm one for taking what you like and leave the rest. I think your video did us all a solid on the topic. Keep 'em coming please. Maybe do a video on the benefits and myths of K&N air filters v. stock HD filters. I'm not talking about a complete stage one, just swapping out the filter-is there a benefit?
hey Kevin, I recently found your channel and have since learned a lot about my own Harley in particular but also motorcycles in general. Have you ever done a video comparing belt drive to chain drive? I'm currently in the process of converting my '22 Street Bob 114 to a chain drive.
Kevin, you always make sense. I always heard that every gallon of gas you burn about the same amount of water is produced
Wish I had a garage,
What I do to help the bike throughout the year / temperature change’s / condensation.
I have a little tarp building I made 12x6 and I cut a square out the side the sun doesn’t hit in the morning and added a box fan on low speed beside it and that keeps it from condensating all over the motor for the spring / fall cold nights into the warm mornings. I definitely notice if I don’t have that fan on my motor sweats like a waterfall, then the fan on it’s perfectly dry. Also winter time I run 15-40 so it’s easier on starts.
Been doing this for 6+ years and no problems
I never start my Harly up if I am not riding @ lease over 25 miles are more I was told when I bought my first Harley in 1992 so I didn’t because I didn’t want a lot of compensation in the pipes
I have noticed some motorcycle engines the oil reserve empties into cranckcase. So when starting all that oil is making a harder start and very thick in winter or cold.
We run mower in and out of the show room in the morning and it builds conditions in the oil and we have to change the oil on new mower after we run them in short time
Oil has to get above 212degrees to boil the water out of it.
Water doesn’t have to boil to be pulled out of oil. It will evaporate at a rather rapid pace at any temp above ambient. Of course this assumes the humidity is low enough for the atmosphere to accept the vapor (i. e., not 100%).
No it doesn't.
Your sidewalk gets nowhere near boiling temperature when it dries out. Ice cubes shrink when they're kept in your freezer for a long time, due to sublimation. There are hundreds of other examples. Water certainly evaporates more quickly at higher temperatures. But 212 degree temperatures aren't required.
Water can also evaporate at temperatures below 212 degrees f.
I never started it in the winter living in New England before and I put it away pull the plugs pour some marvelous mystery oils in put plugs back spring comes pull plugs spin it over blows out MMO out 🇺🇸🤙
What a great machine shop.
Can’t wait to ride.
First... I'm not a Harley guy... Still I very much enjoy your expertise shown in these videos.
I agree with your perspectives on cold winter start... This week it's -20c or -4 F scale. I agree I never start my bike ( a Goldwing) from October to April.
In regards to lubrication and washing the cylinder head with excess fuel before the oil has a chance to lubricate... The
Goldwing has a "feature" where if you turn the throttle full on and hold it in the 100% position at startup... The fuel injection does NOT send fuel into the cylinders. This allows oil to be pumped the engine cavities. They say do that for 10 seconds, then start normally.
My question is : do Harley M8 bikes do this or is a metric bike thing.
Smart for that first spring start up or after long periods of non use.
Thoughts?
Thanks again for these informative videos
Nice advice, Don't know if this is true or where I heard it, I own a 19 King, when you crank it the PCM does not allow spark or fuel for a couple revolutions to pump some oil. Sounds like a good idea. Your explanation of Honda's feature is smart, I'm a retired auto mechanic and most fuel injection vehicles had the "clear flood" feature by holding throttle wide open no fuel... remember the old days of carb. where you hold throttle and choke wide open when flooded... more air. Thanks for the comment, would like to hear from other harley owners if they know anything about it.
Thats a nice feature my bikes dont have. Instead for the first start up of the riding season I pull the plugs and crank several times until oil pressure is present.
Hey Kevin, good follow up. Simple yes are not question not related to this. Can a timken bearing conversion be done on the M8 engine? I have never heard of anyone doing this.
Hi from Uk thanks for confirming im kinda doing right for my harley not starting and running on the spot air cooled i have alway thought are overheating or near too by the time the oil gets anywhere near hot enought liquid cool i thinks ok if you run long enough for the fans to come on thanks again
Interesting and highly informative, I will surmise most motorcycles at dealers take a beating in oil department because of start-ups for moving out for display and showing bikes to customers very minimal actual run time. I ride year-round weather permitting 45F and up usually, bikes stored in a ride out basement garage that's about 50-55F it would be interesting your thoughts hydroscopic related to mineral oil vs synthetic oil my belief was synthetic attracts and holds more moisture and takes a bit longer to boil it out than mineral oils. As always Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Some very good information. Subscribing
Kevin, I used to do that in the winter start my bike every so often and the Harley dealership told me the same thing you just said. Now I just put the battery tender on it in the winter, then in the spring before I start the engine, I pulled up fuel pump fuse and turn the engine over until I get oil pressure and then I put the fuse back in and start the engine. I was just wondering does that help the engine priming at first after sittingall winter
Is it possible one contributing factor is the manufacturing of metals and metal components? US metals (steel, aluminum, etc) were once proudly made with quality here in the states. I am unsure where the raw materials or even finished components that HD uses are sourced.
** A footnote: Many Harley Dealers move bikes daily. They put them out in the morning and bring them in at night. Possibly another contributing factor for anyone with that much rust and only 300 or so miles.
Spot on with the mechanism of injury to the engine. I used my bike daily for rides to work some 15 miles each way, parked in AC equipped garage both home and at work. When I pulled the jugs off due to top end noise I found that besides some carbon buildup there was cement like substance in left corners of both exhaust pockets,the side a parked bike leans to. I assume that is the result of condensation from rapid cooling flowing to the lowest point on top of piston and kind of sedimenting there, being baked by combustion process thereafter. The buildup was thick enough to cause valve contact, so now I have new valves, freshly honed cylinders with new rings, new lifters, and bike parks outside. What do you think of my assumption?
Got an old biker buddy ; damn he worry’s about those crank and rod roller bearings rusting and pitting .
Good stuff.. How do you feel about adding some aircraft 20-50 storage oil to the crank case prior to long term storage. Then changing it out for the riding season? I do this to diesel engines that are stored for more than 6 months. Storage oil is a slightly sticky oil that coats surfaces and does not slowly flow down into the crank case over time.
Good morning, just a quick question, I have a 06 Ultra Classic screaming eagle CVO, I'm concerned about the cam chain tensioners, did this bike come with the hydraulic or spring tensioners, love your videos
Kevin, thank you for your advice, here’s a question for you: do you recommend changing the oil right before storing the bike before winter? I have mixed thoughts on this, yes definitely if you don’t ride your bike very much through out the summer, but don’t feel the necessity if you ride a lot as long as its not due for an oil change. I have done both , but as the past few years just wait till spring and give it a fresh change. I feel the oil is oil and as long as its been ridden and have had many long rides to evaporate any condensation there really very little if any moisture left in the oil>
I will just wait till riding season comes again.
Is it also a good practice to change oil first thing in the spring? I've been doing this for years, mostly due to the limited riding we can do here in the winter.
Not only does it harm the engine, but exterior surfaces that heat up and cool will more easily corrode. Also keep gas tank full to the brim with ethanol stabilizer. I run mine through with stabilizer before I store. Then I leave it until Spring.
How do you feel about fogging oil for winter storage? I typically fog mine, and a few buddies always say you're wasting your time. But really, it doesn't take long.
I keep mine on a tender but i still start mine and let it run as if im going on a ride. I also like to do it to run some fuel threw it even though i put star tron fuel treatment in it.