Johnathan Pageau PRESSES Ruslan on Orthodox vs Protestant Faith
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Johnathan Pageau PRESSES Ruslan on Orthodox vs Protestant Christianity @JonathanPageau
🤝: Check Out The Bless God Prayer Journal Here: blessgodprayer.shop
🤝: Access Exclusive Podcasts Here / kingsdream
📲 Presave My New Song! ruslantothemoon.com
💪: The Empty Your Bucket Plan That Caused 30 pound transformation: ruslankd.krtra.com/t/2VyOcAJQ...
📚: My Favorite Study Bibles: amzn.to/3Xy1ynk
💪: The Empty Your Bucket Plan That Caused 30 pound transformation: ruslankd.krtra.com/t/2VyOcAJQ...
📰: Bless God Newsletter: www.mastermyhabits.com/newsle...
🔓: FREE Freedom Habits (Course w/My Therapist): www.mastermyhabits.com
📚: FREE How to Study the Bible Course: www.mastermydevo.com
📹: My Equipments (Amazon Affliate): www.amazon.com/shop/ruslankd
▶️: Apparel I'm wearing: www.Ruslankd.com
►: FREE Find Your Niche UA-cam Training: www.mastermyniche.com/
🥇: Make a One Time Donation Via Paypal: bit.ly/3m1ivWg
🥳: Cashapp: cash.app/$ruslankd
🏅: Venmo bit.ly/3nuoMJB @ Ruslankd
🎥: How I Live Stream (Course) www.masteryoutubelive.com/
🙏: My Testimony: bit.ly/2Qmq6Bw
💦: Intro/Outro Song: go.ruslankd.com/new
💰: Get debt free with Dave: • Follow The 7 Steps To ...
📲: www.superphone.io/?aff=ruslankd
💵: Start investing with Acorns now: bit.ly/3vzVG0m
💸: Invest with robinhood: join.robinhood.com/ruslank30
► Subscribe: goo.gl/A3eVy8
► Text Ruslan (Don't Send Links Please) 714-710-1017
Tip the Stream Here: bit.ly/3ILNPBH
My Equipment: kit.co/RuslanKD/livestream-st... - Розваги
I recently left Protestantism, Im Currently a Catechumen ☦️
Edit - Christ Is King!
Glory to God.
Same my friend, glory to God! Peace be with you ☦️
Can you explain why you left protestantism and what is catechumen ?
Same. Love my old church family but I can’t go back after experiencing the Orthodox Church. I’m about finished with catechumenism and about to be a full member of the church
Welcome home brother! May God, your guardian angel and the most Holy Theotokos protect you in your process as a catechumen.
I heard an orthodox describe church as “gathering on earth to participate in what’s happening in heaven.” And I thought, “That is the awesomest reason to go to church I’ve ever heard!”
Amen, Catholics agree that the liturgy is where heaven and earth kiss!
It really is an awesome reason, and a short, perfectly direct answer. Glory to God!
And that's what the Roman Catholic Latin Mass used to be before they ruined it by changing the liturgy, the language, and the ritual itself. When they turned the altar around so that the priest now faced the congregation instead of the heavens, I was done with it. They broke off the connection to heaven, locked the doors, and proclaimed "in here, it's just us chickens." And we've witnessed the confusion, corruption and deterioration that has ensued since. The priest's preparation of the Eucharist before the eyes of God became more like a chef creating chicken soup or lasagna. Eventually, the Eucharist was treated exactly like chicken soup or lasagna, and nothing more.
@@Mooseman327 I pray that God has mercy on you for calling His Sacrifice chicken soup. Absolutely shameful. Don’t project your perverse interpretations on us, it is you who have difficulty recognizing the heavenly realities that are present there.
It is an awesome concept that declares the wonders of God and His Church. That view like the Orthodox view of Salvation which is wholistic and ever-expanding until we pass from life to life.
As a catholic i really appreciate Johnathan’s fair portrayal of the schism. “This is how the catholics viewed it”, “this is how the orthodox viewed it”. Its seems just factual and unbiased, but in comparison to whats out there it feels very compassionate and charitable.
This one of the reasons I kept listening to Jonathan and still do to this day.
They gave a very mild and polite version of the schism as we orthodox saw it happening. Here is the harsh version :
It all started in 753 when Pepin "the short", the mayor of the palace (prime minister) of the Franks sends an offer to pope Zachary in Ravenna, Italy (part of the Byzantine empire). Pepin offers the territory of Ravenna (including the ruins of Rome) to the pope and his protection. In exchange the pope ends the Merovegian dynasty and crowns Pepin king of the Franks. It's the first brick leading to the creation of a Pontifical State and the schism with the "Greek" Church.
Pepin's son, Charles the Great (Charlemagne) is even more ambitious. In 800AD he asks pope Leo III to crown him emperor of the West, using a forgery : the so-called donation of Constantin.
A few years later he tries to separate Rome from the Byzantine Church by creating a schism. Since the union is based on the Nicene creed, Charlemagne request Leo III to add the filioque in the Creed. Leo refuses and nails two silver shields on the doors of his basilica with the Nicene creed engraved in Greek and Latin (without the filioque) and adds this sentence :
I Leo did this for the sake and love of the orthodox faith.
There are two sides now the filioquists versus the orthodox. The popes continue to resist to the Carolingian dynasty. The dispute within the Western Church reaches Constantinople and creates a first schism with Rome. The unity is restored at the 8th ecumenical council held at Constantinople in 879-880. The council anathematizes anyone who dares add or subtract anything to or from the Nicene Creed. Saint pope John VIII validates the council. The filoque dispute is over.
But everybody is not happy and in 882 saint pope John VIII is murdered with a war hammer.
His successor Marin removes his name from the list of the popes because he allegedly was a woman in drag, pope Joan. All his actions are nullified. Including the 8th ecumenical council.
The filioque dispute is back for another round.
I continue the story here. After the murder of saint pope John VIII, Rome falls in total chaos while Italian and German nobles fight over saint Peter's throne. (Synodus Horrenda, Pornocratia...) until the carolingian imperial dynasty ran extinct. But all is not lost for the Carolingians : the count Bruno von Egisheim-Dagsburg is elected pope Leo IX by an assembly at Worms (Germany) .
Leo IX claim the imperial crown for himself and creates a Pontifical state on the lands given to the popes by Pepin the short. He also established a senat : the assembly of cardinals wearing the purple dress of the roman senators. And also a chancellor : Humbert of Moyenmoutier.
Leo IX does not enjoy his new imperial power for long as he's captured by the Normans wile leading his army at the Battle of Civitate on 15 June 1053. Wile Leo is hold hostage, Humbert governs the Pontifical state alone. Experts say he writes and signs letters in the name of the pope. Humbert is in his way to Constantinople when he learns that Leo IX died on 19 April 1054.
Nevertheless he arrives in Constantinople and delivers an insulting letter from (allegedly) the dead pope to the Patriarch Michel where Leo IX accuses Michel to be... a woman in drag. Just like pope Joan!
We all know what happened next : excommunications and schism. Charlemagne's plan was completed.
After the schism with the orthodox Church the papacy completed the "gregorian" reform started by Leo IX.
1075 - Encyclical Dictatus Papae states :
That the Roman church alone is founded by the Lord.
That the Roman pontiff alone is called universal by right.
That he alone can use the imperial insignia.
That all princes are to kiss the feet of the pope alone.
That this is the only name in the world.
That he himself must be judged by no one.
1302 - Encyclical Unam Sanctam states that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
1479 An official history of the popes is written by the prefext of the Vatican library :
Pope John VIII: John, of English extraction, was born at Mentz (Mainz) and is said to have arrived at popedom by evil art; for disguising herself like a man, whereas she was a woman, she went when young with her paramour, a learned man, to Athens, and made such progress in learning under the professors there that, coming to Rome, she met with few that could equal, much less go beyond her, even in the knowledge of the scriptures; and by her learned and ingenious readings and disputations, she acquired so great respect and authority that upon the death of Pope Leo IV (as Martin says) by common consent she was chosen pope in his room. As she was going to the Lateran Church between the Colossean Theatre (so called from Nero's Colossus) and St. Clement's her travail came upon her, and she died upon the place, having sat two years, one month, and four days, and was buried there without any pomp.
1601, Pope Clement VIII declared the legend of the female pope to be untrue. John VIII is rehabilitated but the 8th ecumenical council he validated is not acknowledged by Rome. And he's not canonized either (he's a saint martyr only in the orthodox Church)
1995 Pope John-Paul II orders the publication of this clarification about the filioque :
The Catholic Church acknowledges the conciliar, ecumenical, normative, and irrevocable value, as expression of the one common faith of the Church and of all Christians, of the Symbol professed in Greek at Constantinople in 381 by the Second Ecumenical Council. No profession of faith peculiar to a particular liturgical tradition can contradict this expression of the faith taught and professed by the undivided Church.
The recitation of the filioque is progressively banished from the Catholic liturgy.
What does that mean?
1) In 1054 the schismatic Church was Rome. Not Constantinople
2) Popes are not infallible.
3) The orthodox Church is the true catholic (universal) Church.
@@Hope_Boat would you please write down some books or other resources I could use to learn more about the Orthodox understanding of the schism?
Raised with divorced parents, went to Synagogue with my Orthodox Jewish Stepfather and Roman Catholic Church with my father, and now planning on going to an Orthodox Christian Church.
can you describe your experience of orthodox Judaism?
welcome to the family!
Welcome home to the orthodox Church
@@conantheseptuagenarian3824 basically phariseeism
The Orthodox Church allows too many divorces. The Catholic Church restricts this heavily.
Jonathan pageau is one of my favorite creators. His depth and knowledge of scripture is incredible
A minor ‘correction’ to Pageau. Revelation’s culminating vision is itself grounded in the architectural symbolism of OT worship.
… and then NT churches worship is based on Revelations vision. 😉 (which is what he was referencing) but yes you can’t have NT worship without the OT context looking forward but also looking behind.
*coming from one exploring orthodoxy
He’s raised up in Baptist church in Quebec at one point his father was a pastor. And later he studied and now he’s very knowledgeable !
I left Protestantism for Orthodoxy and got baptized. Best decision I’ve ever made in my life and will never go back ☦️
Well said, you just changed a religion for another. It just proves you never was a born again Christian, but only an adept from Protestantism who decided to adhere to a new trend.
@@josueinhan8436 well now, lets not bash him with judgements shall we?
@noahramirez2185 its great that you found peace and solace in Orthodoxy..... it's also the weakness of the protestant churches to not stand up to what it should believe in.
Amen and hallelujah!
The re-baptizing thing is a red flag. The Orthodox stance that only they have the sacraments is not tenable, specially towards Catholicism. While Catholicism says the sacraments are vice-versa valid, and Protestants also have valid baptism if they say they words correctly.
@@josueinhan8436it’s the original faith not founded in 1700s by heretics
Became an Orthodox Christian 2 years ago after 30 years as a Protestant.
So grateful for all I learned in my youth!!!
Christ is King!
Amen
Amen!
Amen Christ is King until he gives the Kingdom back to his God, our Father, Thee King of Glory. Shalom.
God bless!
IC XC NIKA ☦
Holy Orthodoxy has changed my life! I encourage many to investigate the beautiful truth of the Orthodox faith! ☦️🔥🔥
We out here!
@@dannoel2351 haha yes fam! 💯💯
☦️
Go for it. If it does something for you good. I find that the Spirit of God in me is sufficient. I try not to add or take away from what God has provided. I have a hard time believing that ritual could add anything to my relationship with him. I don't see it in his Word..
Dude you need to know the beauty of Holy Baptistry. So solemn. No statues or icons. Just us and the Lord. Come one dude this is Protestant country.
Please consider inviting Fr. Josiah Trenham on to discuss the Orthodox faith.
It’s De Young for me
De Young would be a far better representative for the faith than Trenham
@@ItsThatGuy1989 😂
Or... both
Great idea! Being a former protestant and having written Rock and Sand, he is a great strong bridge for protestants to cross and see orthodoxy.
I’m a home grown Atheist and learning about Christianity in a reformed Baptist Church! It’s good for me because they don’t play around and I am going to be baptized soon ! ❤️🙏🏻
Amen!!!!!!
So happy for you!
Becoming Orthodox (raised Evangelical and was an active missionary living overseas) was the single greatest decision of my life.
Wow, how did you find out about EO?
@@triplea6174 I was serving in Romania, which is like 90% Orthodox. It was completely absent from my radar, even having taken courses on church history. I stumbled across the book "The Orthodox Way" by Kallistos Ware and it kicked off a journey of discovery.
Same. Glory to God
@@adamlbrown I agree, whoever can't simply answer to getting saved, are they even saved? I hate to say the bi Le tells us they are not.
@@Zegoggy So what do you think was happening for 1500 years prior to Martin Luther and the Reformation? Were ALL the people of Christ's Church living in some false reality of what it means to be saved? What it means to be a Christian? I don't have the answer, but I find it REALLY difficult to believe that the Church from the beginning, the Church of the Apostles, was just outright wrong for 1500 years until Martin Luther came and showed everyone the error of their ways.
The Orthodox Liturgy orients us towards the heavens…and anchors us to the whole of reality.
What lies...
@@canyouhandleit6718 You sound like you’ve been hurt…
@@tomy2988 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 Do you see ghosts as well?🤣😂🤣😂
@@canyouhandleit6718I pray for your conversion to Christianity
This sounds kinda cultish 😅 Jesus established his kingdom with him enthroned as king. Orthodox has created its own kingdom that clearly reading the comments proves many are more interested in then Gods own established kingdom culture. The deception is very interesting
I’m a Catholic, and I just want to say I love Jonathan and Orthodoxy. I pray each day for unity in the Church! God bless you all!
Agree. Conditions:
1) Catholics convert to Orthodoxy
Simple 😉
Serbian Orthodox are praying for unity too! Despite the massacre that we experienced from the Catholic Pope in WW2 in Croatia and Jasenovac.
I've personally been searching for what kind of Christian I should be. I believe I have found my home in the Orthodox Church.
What values attract you to orthodoxy? ( I’m not being condescending, I’m just genuinely curious 😊)
God bless
@@scottsmith8162 Thanks. I was attracted to the traditions of Orthodoxy, including the liturgy and hymns, and the fact that it (and Catholicism until the Schism) was the original church founded by the apostles. I like that Orthodoxy holds more tightly to traditional Biblical values more than any other church (including Catholicism) especially on things like LGBT issues. I like that it still holds to patriarchy over feminism, despite the tide of popular opinion against it. I like that it is not as easy to join as other churches, (particularly Protestant churches), and demands more of its congregants than other forms of Christianity. I also like the emphasis on the Jesus Prayer and even the concept of theosis. IMHO, Orthodoxy is truly the most profound, elegant, and authentic form of Christianity. God bless!
@@stevenjames1138the Catholic Church has the same views regarding lgbt as the Catholic Church go read the church documents
Thats all cool and all BUT just to address the last point you said. About how it's difficult to attend the church and at the same time saying how THAT is most christ like. But what about the christ that ate with the lowest of society? That gave water of life to a non jew? Wouldn't it be most christ like to invite all to your house and let everyone hear and feel God's word?
@@brotherxela5085that’s the same criticism. I really dislike the idea of the one true church. Jesus prayed with sinners and outcasts of society on streets. The Pharisees got criticized because they were so obsessed with tradition and looked down and judged others who didn’t follow their tradition exactly. My faith is in Jesus not a church because a church can easily be corrupted
I'm a protestant who has seriously benefitted from Jonathan's teachings. Love this convo!
You may enjoy Dr Gavin Ashenden ❤️🔥
As a Catholic I appreciate Pageau explaining the origin of the filioque and reasoning for it
I’m very thankful to find an Eastern Orthodox Church near my home. It’s been fascinating learning the orthodox way for the past month and a half..👍🏽🙏🏽❤️🩹
Orthodoxy is "FULLNESS" IN DECEPTION. I was greek orthodox. It is not Christianity, like mormonism isn't. Very misleading chat. Most of orthodoxy is not in the Bible but contradicts it, and you are disorienting people to think that the issue is filio que??
You are welcome to attend to a liturgy and stay for a meal aftee that (bring a casserole or something vegan if on fasting season) or you can schedule an appointment during the week with a priest and ask him the questions you have.
@@eldruidacosmico he/you keep erasing my comment to you because you fear the truth. God will have His time with you one Day.
Learn the Biblical way not from tradition..... tradition is man made.
@@taealvon1710 Do you realize that the tradition you hate so much literally made the bible you love so much? You should be grateful that Jesus left us with a church that got the fruit of the bible you are holding in your hand.
I'm so glad you got Pageau on. He helped me on my path back to Christ!
As a Roman Catholic I have been enormously blessed by Jonathan’s work. I reverted to Catholicism back in 2019 while experiencing the Liturgy at a funeral-and I’m talking Novus Ordo here. I payed attention to the Liturgy for the first time in my life and understood what was happening-even if it wasn’t the most solemn celebration. From then on I’ve been on a very interesting journey. I know all the problems in the Catholic Church, and I understand why Jonathan tends to avoid talking about Catholicism, but it is my home. I’m Mexican and our country used to be very Catholic. That’s who we are. We were evangelized by Franciscan missionaries and I think we need to go back to our roots and save our Church in the midst of all the madness and confusion that has taken place in our Tradition.
In August I got baptized in the orthodox church in my country after being a protestant for 13 years ...because there is security that the church wont change, it's not tolerant against evil, it has the wisdom and connection with the early christians and they are more immune to manipulation and heresies
Congrats for your baptism. Don't rely too much on anything earthly. Nothing on earth is secure except God's will. I maintain my faith by putting God and his Word (Jesus and the book) above anything else including traditions, leadership and doctrines. I strayed away and came back. The reasons for straying was because God wasn't central in my life. Now He and His Word is. Again congrats and best wishes
Concerned about the question of divorce in the Orthodox church. Jesus was pretty clear on that.
Sadly, be fearful of that change - ecumenism. That is why some Orthodox, such as Romanians and Greeks, who follow the Gregorian calendar when it comes to Christmas. Orthodox Christians are meant to follow the Julian Calendar.
Dude, I love Jonathan. So happy you had him on here
Catholic here, I haven't had too much exposure to Orhotodxy outside of Pageau, but if he represents the fullness of the faith, then man, Orthodoxy is at the trenches of Christian theology. It has helped me alot on connecting the material reality to the spiritual reality. I heard someone said that Orthodox is like spaghetti, jumbled up, tangled, connects to everything, but hard to separate. While western tradition is more like meatballs, easily distinguished, orderly, but too compartmentalized. Wait, was it Ruslan who said it..
He is very inspired by the Church Fathers and the lives of the saints. Once I became Orthodox myself, I began to realise just how influenced by Orthodoxy his work really is.
I'm Catholic as well. But don't be impressed those were talking points that's it. In reality we were both in the business of making a science of theology with all the Christological councils that provoked schisms as with Arians and Nestorians. We didn't just leave it a mystery did we. So what actually happened is that the Orthodox Stopped doing it after the Great Schism, in fact they haven't had even one ecumenical council since. And why? Because they can't get along, they have no unity of jurisdiction like in the 1st millennium, unlike the Catholic Church who has kept the Pope. So be on alert don't just let him talk.
Yeah i think its a very eastern church mindset. I enjoy it as well. You will find this alot in the eastern catholic church’s as well. Of course, they adhere to the “western” or catholic understanding of authority, but the approach to mystery, the “culture”, feel or aroma, and academic/thought. Idk i started to ramble there, but hopefully you get the idea.
@@emilio6425 Yes, I respect eastern catholic a lot.. I think, they are the key to softening the hearts of Rome & Constantinople, if communion is ever possible.
@@workinpromo lol, yes the Orthodox Church has had eucumenical councils after the Great Schism. Your pope dont impress anyone, nor does he unite catholics. The amount of different brunches in catholicism that believe in things that contradict each other is appalling, it's like protestantism but under a pope. (e.g: Sedevacantists, Novus ordo people, eastern catholics and so on), which of them is correct? Which of them has the right interpretation of what the popes have said, and about what is biding and not biding? You have people in your church who venerate St Photius, who is the saint which your church had previously anathematised in one of its councils. They even venerate St Gregory of Palamas, lol. Orthodox unity, is not dependent on a single person, but on the Orthodox faith, which has been preserved throughout the centuries, while your church has been dropping novelties after novelties. Plus autocephalous churches are part of the apostolic tradition.
☦️❤️🔥 Grew up Assemblies of God in my 20’s was Calvinist now my family and I, by the grace of God, couple months ago, finally came Home and were chrismated in the fullness of The Orthodox Church. We have found the fullness of what Christ left us here on earth by The Holy Spirit ☦️❤️🔥
Christ bless Jonathan. IC XC NIKA ☦️
Jonathan’s idea of hierarchy was enormously helpful. I am a Protestant who is drawn to Orthodoxy and appreciates Catholicism and yet still ministers in the Anglican Church and sees God at work. Maybe one day I will become Orthodox but until then I feel affirmed that I am still able to serve Christ. So thanks.
Read the Church Fathers, they will lead you to Rome, not the schimastic EO.
@@JeanRausisYT your pope said it was a sin to convert orthodox, why ?
Jonathan is one of the creators that made me understand God and eventually Christ revealed himself to me in my search for him and I could not deny the truth anymore. God bless Jonathan and praise to the lord!
I’m a protestant and i really enjoyed hearing from these eastern orthodox brothers in Christ. Brings a little more perspective and insight to eastern orthodoxy. 99% of online comments from EOs that i’ve seen are just spamming “ONE TRUE HOLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH”😂😂
Sadly, there is a large difference between Online Eastern Orthodox and actual Eastern Orthodoxy. It's a faith thats lived out in the Parish and services, and some people get stuck online. But for online content, I think Pageau and Bible Illustrated are very much on the good end. Actually, Bible Illustrated covered this topic "I Don't Like Orthodox People☦ Online" (Pencils & Prayer Ropes).
@@mamaliamalak7825 Stay away from two faced orthodoxy. I am warning you.
But it is though
You shouldn't go to online comments for a nuanced break down on anything lol.
I once went to a charismatic church and the pastor tried to convince me to join them as they were the true Apostolic church. Since then I stay away from the claim "apostolic" lol
I'm converting to Orthodox
maybe take some more time to study and consider the implications otherwise you'll easily be swayed from Orthodoxy as well. Of course, I understand you're probably not serious.
@@of_the_Word why would you assume something without even knowing who I am. I've been researching orthodoxy for a year so yeah
@@truegravee because that’s what an assumption is. I saw your comment under this video and my brain only made one of multiple possible conclusions. You could just tell me that there’s really no need to be upset.
Same
@@of_the_Word I said four words. How could you assume anything other than I'm converting to Orthodox. As for me being mad nope
Great job Ruslan! Really held your own!!!!!! I could see Jonathan’s smile at your knowledge of church history. Proud of you man, keep working hard how you do.
I appreciate you allowing for Orthodox perspective on your podcast Ruslan. I hope to see you host more Orthodox Christians in the future.
-a recently made Orthodox Catechumen
Orthodox Christianity is the fullness of the revelation of Christ, spiritually and physically. Everything else is something less.
Nope 👎
Christ's body is composed of all believers throughout the world. It is not limited to a single organization.
@@brianmccauley339 yes it is
@@nerychristianironically that's also what the Orthodox teaches too. We are all the body of Christ. Each denomination illustrates that truth at different levels. The Orthodox expresses it in a way that's not just technical or spiritual...but symbolic. Orthodox is the older brother of the Catholic and Protestant church.
@@uchechukwuibeji5532 I have nothing against the Orthodox church. If someone believes in Christ and has a church where they can be surrounded by other believers, then Amen. I guess for me the symbols would be a distraction. Since in my heart I know any man made symbol is merely a shadow of the real thing
Met both of this guys. They came to my church and are just solid. ☦☦☦
Catholic here just enjoying his popcorn 😂🍿
Same but it’s my lemon cookies and milk 🥛 cookie
Same 😎
Same but fart juice amd crackers and old cheese🫠
😂😂 that was pretty good bro
😅😅😅
Catholic here! Cool video, would love the orthodox and Catholics to reunite - and invite Protestants home!
Amen! We are ONE HOLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH! We have let schism separate us! Praise be to God in the Highest!
LOL. No thank you. I will not follow the Pope, who is a false prophet.
Don't let the schism seperate you . That is man made. you have fake Crhistinas in every denomination and you have real oly Spirit Filled Born Again Christians in different denominations. The Reformation did not throw everything away. It went back to the early church and when the church disagrees with the Bible the Bible takes precedence. That is all. Yes the early church gave us the bible through the holy spirit. So The reformers had issues with doctrines like indulgences that crept into the church which were not biblical. The apostles creed , Nicean Creed are honored by the reformation.
Agree. Conditions:
1) Catholics convert back to Orthodoxy
Perfect unity indeed. 😉
@@blahblah4129 And Orthodox and Catholics convert to Protestantism. And there will be peace
My fiance is Romanian, and their religion is orthodox Christianity. I’m living in Romania right now with my child and unborn child, and I don’t really know much about it, all I know is that they have ALOT of traditions. And days where they share food with their neighbours, and days where they get a day off work, and days where they don’t wash/do any work, because it’s the days when god rested. What I do know about it is that it is beautiful. It is very communal and it’s brings people together.
I moved to Romania to be with my wife and daughter too. Though, we attend a baptist church. But, I do not call myself baptist, I'm simply a Christian.
It's written in the bible by James what true religion is. Though, traditions can be beneficial.
Same, I myself am just a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ. But I do love the traditions. It is definitely beneficial.
Did you read Father Seraphim Rose books? Orthodoxy and The religion of the future is The best books about understanding all religios.
☦🙏🏼Agree! @@Ortodoxy
I was a Baptist before discovering Holy Orthodoxy. I am a Catechumen now and coming home to Christ True One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has been the best decision I've ever made. Come back home to Orthodoxy, Protestants, and be healed and truly participate in the life of Christ. God bless you all ☦️❤️
Holy orthodoxy? Only God is holy.
@nerychristian 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Way to go! You completely missed the entire point. But since you want to play semantics. Orthodoxy is Christ's body, and Christ is the head of His own body(The Orthodox Church). Christ is Holy because He is God. Therefore, His body(The Church) is also Holy, and so is everything that comes with it.
@@austinditullio6682 Orthodoxy isn't Christ's body. WE, the believers, are his body. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend an orthodox church isn't a Christian?
@@nerychristian Theologically the Body of Christ is His Church(that's Biblical) and there is Only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy. I would never deny your love and faith towards Christ, BUT yes the only true Christians are Orthodox because that is the only Church and Faith Christ established with his Apostles on Pentecost(Acts2).
What I want to also clarify is even though we claim to be the True Church, we don't make any salvation claims towards people outside the Church, or even inside for that matter. Salvation isn't a OSAS like the Protestants preach(I used to be a Baptist before discovering Orthodoxy). To be saved is a lifelong bloody fight to the last breath and we won't know we're saved until Judgment day. That doesn't mean all Orthodoxy Christians will be saved and everyone else damn. God's judgment is His and His alone and we won't know till we're standing face to face with him. One more thing to is Christ judges the heart so keep loving Him the best you can but don't settle for 2nd best, Christ has one faith and one body of which He is head of. One Church one Head not One head and many Churches(bodies). There are plenty of good Orthodox channels I can recommend if you want to know more. God bless ☦️
@@austinditullio6682 Oh, please. No where in the book of acts do I see any mention of the orthodox church. If we were trying to see which church looks like the church described in the New Testament, then we would have to say that only house churches are true churches. The early Christians met in homes, and The Lord's Supper was an actual meal that they ate together.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal.
Santo Dios, Santo Poderoso, Santo Inmortal.
Свјати Боже ,Свјати Крепки ,Свјати Бесмертни, Помилуј Нас!
Time to read the Epistle.
@@wauliepalnuts6134 🤣I am not Russian but it’s crazy that I can read that just bc my church uses Slavonic. I just started going a few years ago.
Have mercy on us
Hello protestants, St. Athanasius was literally a bishop that offered the sacrifice of the Eucharist and baptized infants
Cool 👏
hello, thanks.
In the 4th century during the time of Constantine… so I'm not sure what that proves?
Constantine wanted Christianity to unify, he didn’t care if it was Arian or not. Constantine’s successors were sympathetic to Arianism. While Athenatius famously rejected Arianism.
I'm a Lutheran,a Protestant. We administer the administer the Eucharist and we baptize infants. Please, do some research lol
Finally! Been waiting for Jonathan Pageau to be on the show! Love his insight and teachings💛
I love Jonathan, he brought me back to my lord Jesus Christ. I was in deep materialist atheism for some years but his wisdom and perception of the world through symbolism, helped me understand how God is real.
My issue with the Orthodox church is praying through saints. One mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ 1 Tim 2:5.
As a Christian and a protestant, I really love listening to Jonathan's lectures. Thank you! Love you all brothers and sisters!
Bring fr. Josiah Trenham, fr. Peter Heers and Jay Dyer
Or Father Peter Heers
Check Out The Bless God Prayer Journal Here: blessgodprayer.shop
Follow Johnathan Pageau on instagram here 👉 instagram.com/jonathan.pageau/
Former Oneness Pentecostal. My family and I were received into the Orthodox Church a few weeks ago. Come home. ☦️
Yes!
The other Canadian “JP”!!
Cheers to the Dynamic Duo!
Bringing truth to those who will listen.
Pageau is 100% right about hierarchy. When you look into the history and really step back. Protestantism is falling apart and I see a revival back to the Orthodox and Catholic faith. Or the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church 🙏
Please support your statement that Protestantism is falling apart.
Protestantism is shedding it's tagalongs. Your group should too.
@@TyXTheJedi man there are entire missions dedicated to helping Protestant ministers after they convert. If you seek the truth you end up in the Catholic church.
@@cjr4497 Still no support of the statement.
But no biblical Christian can sit under an institution that has such a low view of scripture and a high view of tradition.
@@VikingMakery Catholics cant shed their tagalongs, their pope is a heretic and he replaced all their cardinals with heretics. Their entire church is the tagalong now.
Thank you, gentlemen, for such a great conversation to listen in on! God bless you
Ruslan said "mhmm" constantly in such a rythmic pulse that i am still hearing it. "mhmm"
Sike im not a rapper!
😅
That’s called active listening
@@Metascetic mhmm
😂
Great to see you invite Jonathan Pageau on, loved the conversation... As a Protestant I dont think we pay enough attention to the history of the church. I've done my own research over the past 10+ years, but its so rare to hear it mentioned in church. I've grown in my faith by understanding the roots more.
Yes, unfortunately, church history and the context of it are underrated. Which makes one think if the orthodox, catholics/classical protestant denominations are more valid
If you haven't come across Dr Gavin Ashenden, he is worth listening to❤️🔥
Probably the best most concise and simple to understand breakdowns of the hierarchy of denominations and a quick history. Thank you for this.
Halleluja 🙌 so well said, John Pageau!
Orthodoxy has the fullness. Live it and you know.
The Church is Holy, not all those at a Liturgy will be Holy at any given time, so don't go judging by the people. But most people are amazing and some are true saints.
I never seek out JP but everytime I hear him man… wealth of knowledge
It's so good, so light, to hear Jonathan explaining his view and making an exposition of the problem. Made me long for some classes from him on this subject - or at least a list of texts made by him to read about it.
I have been waiting for these guys to talk! finallyyyyy! lets goooo
This is mad love Jonathan and ruslan
Any Christian who goes deep into importance of having fullness of truth, will end up with an Apostolic Church. No escape. Inevitable.
I was recently baptized into the Holy Greek Orthodox Church and I have zero regrets. It has been a beautiful story filled with enchantment. The people have been wonderful. I haven’t witnessed a single drop of the toxicity I experienced in Protestant churches I came from. It’s been amazing and I stand as a witness of the Truth of Orthodoxy. ☦️
I too have just became a catechumen!!! Praise be to God!!!☦️☦️
I’ve been waiting for Ruslan to interview Jonathan Pageau FOR… EVERRR
Unexpected collab and im glad as well!
I want to see a Jay Dyer interview
That would be ... something else.
Would be super provocative that’s for sure.
Ruslan would first have to presuppose what an interview even is…
Lmao
@boombockz900 no jay is a chill guy but it can be heated only when that energy is given.
I mean, that’s not my experience with Dyer… but I’m sure he’s cordial sometimes.
Great discussion, could watch this talk for a long time!
Wonderful!
Bro, can you bring Sam Shamoun here for the podcast? It would be great!!
Orthodoxy is the fullness. It’s beautiful. ☦️☦️☦️☦️
really enjoyed this one
Really good explanations. I really learned from this discussion and enjoyed this podcast!
I’m apart of the Apostolic Assyrian Church of the East and seeing Protestant churches really shock me. Playing music in church and saying outrageous things at sermons are so different than our traditional reading of the Bible and singing hymns in Aramaic. I really think not all Protestants are bad but the churches that are breaking into different beliefs are starting to move away from the real truth of the Bible and making their own ideas. Churches need some tradition so that it doesn’t fall or break apart through generations. What’s cool about our Churches is that if you go to any Assyrian Church of the East you will have the same sermon as people in Iraq or Chicago.
Tradition is not somehow safe from moving away from the truth of the Bible and teachings of the Apostles. There are tons of ‘traditions’ that look totally different from yours and yet all claim some level of apostolic roots.
The biblical tradition is the only essential tradition needed, however most Protestants do affirm the early creeds and what not, Christmas is apart if church tradition and most Protestants practice and observe Christmas, the word Trinity comes from tradition, or early church writers and fathers, and guess what? Well you get the point. Tradition is a spectrum and not all are correct anyway. For example I have yet to hear a good argument or see any evidence for Mary being a perpetual virgin.
@@justchilling704 She had sons and daughters! She knew her husband after bearing birth to Jesus. (Matthew 1:25)
While I do agree with you, we have to be careful about the assumption that traditions are rooted in Scripture. Much like the Jewish elders who created traditions wholly separate from the Laws, us christians are susceptible to doing the same. Everything needs to be under a spotlight to ensure it's accuracy and coherency
@@justchilling704 Have you checked Catholic Answers?
I'm a recent convert from Protestantism to Holy Orthodoxy. I agree with Jonathan. There are the Apostolic churches and there is Protestantism which is an offshoot of the Catholic Church but not Apostolic. I do consider Protestants my brothers and sisters although with the caveat that those Protestant churches embrace Nicea in some form. But modern Protestantism is very much an American enterprise and is why I left it for the ancient church.
Yo Ruslan I used to watch you all the time when I converted, I became a catechumen in the EO church last Lazarus Saturday!
Loved it
I’m not sure if I’m following Pageau’s understanding properly. It seems to me that he is saying “Because of the way Rome tried to apply its rule jurisdictionally, it is too hierarchical and therefore bound to become tyrannical.” Again, forgive me if I’m misinterpreting his understanding.
Honestly I’m not convinced the schisms are a sign that Rome’s rulings are false, it just shows that man is sinful and has a tendency to become hypocritical and divide unnecessarily.
A bad Christian doesn’t disprove Christ, and in the same way, abuse in Church governing doesn’t disprove their authority (whether it’s jurisdictional or not).
Either way, much love to my Orthodox siblings. If I weren’t becoming Catholic, I’d be Orthodox easily.
True saying scism=tyranny is a easy way to have everyone make up their own church the moment we don't agree on something. Wait that's just Protestants
Welcome home. Ave Maria!
It's about the principle of subsidiarity.
That authority precedes on the proper levels. If you are to far remove from the thing you judge it becomes hard to make the proper decision. Your way of decision making becomes to abstrakt.
I think that summary is pretty close to what he was saying. He also added that the tyrannical leadership will fail ("break") eventually, so his argument is that the epistemology is flawed. This is why he compares it to the Orthodox Church, which has always operated in a conciliar manner.
I agree that the Reformation as a schism from the Roman Catholic Church does not necessarily disprove their system, but I do think it gives good insight into their epistemology claims and whether or not they hold up (like mentioned above). I think it is easier to observe which groups are actually in schism by observing history, and I think that the Roman Catholics do fall into this. This observation would be the clincher that shows that Rome's rulings are false.
I think the idea is that when you have one primary authority other then Christ (the pope) it is bound to become tyrannical, like the many bad popes throughout history. As opposed to everyone submitting to the councils like orthodoxy, where no one is more authoritative.
Funny watching this as a Byzantine catholic😂
I am currently a member of the Assemblies of God but I am strongly moving towards joining the Orthodox Church. I’m tired of American Protestantism
For so many of us Orthodox converts, when you discover the faith it’s like being hit by a truck. You then realize there are no other options. This is the true faith.
St Thomas Aquinas, arguably the most important theologian in the history of the Church and who formed a significant amount of Catholic doctrine, was brilliant in both explaining Christianity using logic AND mysticism. The Catholic Church has the "both/and" approach with logic and mystery.
Exactly, they lost me when they spoke about over-rationality like the Catholic Church ignoring the mystery.
@@vtaylor21 Same. Also felt a few comments were pejorative on the Catholic Church. There's a way to have these ecumenical conversations without delegitimizing each other. Unfortunately, it's human nature to criticize what feels threatening. That's why we have to enter these talks making plenty of room for the Holy Spirit to speak and not lean too heavily on our own understanding
No. Thomist teachings undermine the Trinity. He isn’t the most important theologian in Church history. That would be St. Basil the Great or St. John Chyrsostom, or St. Gregory the Theologian, or St. John the Theologian. It is definitely not Thomas .
@@czuw2967 that’s your opinion. A lot of people disagree with you, Aquinas what quite brilliant and his work outstanding. I don’t think there is a lot of other works from theologians that can rival with the summa theologia of Aquinas.
Jonathan Pageau?!?!? ON THE PODCAST?!?!
All the love from a non-denominational Christian to my Orthodox Christian brothers and sisters!
Excellent discussion and discussion.
I don't think my pea brain can comprehend all this! I just accept it and believe it! My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will explain it all to my dumb ass when I get there (sorry for the language)! I just know that the gospel story is so beautiful, no man could have conceived it! Has to be the truth! Thank God for his love for a scumbag like me! 😭
I pray daily for the unity of all Christians. Wonderful discussion! 🙏🏼
I have been an orthodox Christian my whole life, and I am blessed beyond words, to describe my thankfullness
I started out in prot groups but it wasen't long until I discovered Orthodoxy and I'm now a Catechumen. Glory to God!
Nestorianism was dealt with before Chalcedon at the Council of Ephesus. See the 12 Anathema of the Great St. Cyril of Alexandria.
Jesus is the only way 🙏 🙌 repent and follow his commandments, pray and read his word. Get together with other believers and worship him. Love God with all your heart.
Ok. This doesn’t alleviate the falsehood of Protestantism.
@CJP.-pq3kr never said it did ?There's only one road to Heaven, the Narrow Path.
@@markkrilljr9033
The narrow path is the one who believes in Christ alone for his/her eternal salvation.
@Nighhhts By repentance, by faith, by dying to the flesh, Pray before you read the word ask for guidance and the ability to understand 🙏
@@markkrilljr9033
Salvation is by faith alone.
“Repenting,” which I can already tell you think is “ROYS,” has nothing to do with repenting of your sins. “Repent” means “change of mind.” What are you “changing your mind” about? Sin? No. Unbelief! You change your mind from unbelief in Christ to belief in Christ; this is the ONLY requirement to be saved.
46 year old catechumen in Orthodox Church, grateful
Im a Copt and I love listening to Pageau. Hes very gentle and full of knowledge. God bless 🙏
Dr. Jeannie Konstantinou, would be one of the best people to host. She knows so much about the Catholic and Protestant views, that she will steelman their positions, while also conveying why she believes, clearly, and in and thoroughly. She uses simple language for the most part, and does her best to explain any Greek words she might use to convey ideas that are not widely known in the west. She is the wife of a priest and has multiple diplomas in theology, as well as a phd. She’s a gem 💎. Do not sleep on her!!!
Have a video of her on my watch later playlist on the topic of jesus ressurection. Will watch it this weekend!
Her book "Thinking Orthodox" was really edifying and helpful to me a few years back when I was starting to inquire into Orthodoxy. She's great.
I thought women were not allowed to teach in the church
@KatAdVictoriam thank you for that will add that as an inquirer
@nerychristian in church, there are roles for everyone in their proper traditions/ protocols. Context in that verse would help you see that woman can speak and do scholastic work, apart from the general congregation.
A great way of thinking about it.. I see it in practice here in India. People are reached but it also has its downsides...people become disheartened by the corruption and business model of most churches and go to more of a personal relationship with Christ.
I’m one of these people.
Cause you lack obedience,personal relationship is pure narcissism
Yes! The western church suffers from an overemphasis on empiricism, whereas the Orthodox Church maintained Mystery as part of a holistic view of Christianity.
Recently found the truth in the Orthodox Church and currently a catechumen. ☦️
I respect all true Christian’s , but I left Pentecostalism and joined the Orthodox Church and I’m so thankful that there can be a conversation between the 2 denominations may all Christian’s be United in love and faith 🙏
I’m currently in a Pentecostal church.
Their music is repetitive like chants, they don’t have incense but they do have smoke machines sometimes. 🙂
Joining the Orthodox church later this year I think. Stary catechism soon.
I was an Evangelical who started the road in Orthodoxy back in October of 2022. I was baptized and chrismated in November last year in 2023.
It feels like home ☦️
Nice to hear im in the same journey as well and will be starting catchism soon. Godspeed 🙏
May the Lord God bless your journey ☦️
Good and fun conversation
Bro got that last word in cut straight to the promo 😂😂 well played. Great convo
Ruslan, come back to Orthodoxy!!!
Basically, orthodoxy is the truth, and if you research the history honestly, there's no way to avoid that truth
Greetings from a cathar!
Much love to all lovers of Yeshua!
I am so happy to have found Jesus and felt the holy spirit wash over me !! It is truly profound and humbling !!! I must say I don't understand the differences in regard to denomination and think if you have excepted Jesus as your savvier and and poses the fear of God that is good enough for me !!.