I know a bunch of pilots who do fly with raked tips and every one of them honestly confessed to me that they do not feel any difference when installed or not... :D
They make such claims to make money off of people. To be honest with you, I doubt that this raked tip adds any aerodynamic effects to glider performance. It's a scam.
Unless I have personally flown a specific glider with and without a particular set of raked tips and I cannot confirm one way or another. In my experience some tips make a glider worse and others do nothing and some make a major difference in handling. Every glider is different and adding tips may improve handling or not.
It’s easy to test the effectiveness of raked tiplets. Install only one side and see how the glider flies. Then swap to the other side. If there is no tangible difference, such as a turn one way or the other, you have your answer.
I also owe one Sport 3 and have trouble with remowing tip wands when breakdown.. You have so much knowlage about this glider, so maybe you can make one video about that. All the best!
Detension the crossbar first. WW has a terrible tip wand. On top race models from Moyes its done with finger tips compared to wills wing. But, technique will help you. Search ww tip wand on UA-cam.
Je m'en excuse. J'ai été expulsé des cours de français pendant mes études au collège parce que j'étais un clown de classe. Je crains que vous n'ayez à recruter quelqu'un qui comprend ce dont je parle et parle couramment les deux langues. Alternativement, je pourrais écrire un script en anglais et peut-être qu'il sera possible de le traduire? Bonne année! Jonathan "I appologize for this. I was expelled from French lessons while I was attending middle school because I was a class clown. I am afraid you will have to recruit someone who understands what I am discussing and is fluent in both languages. Alternately I could write a script in English and maybe it will be possible to translate this? Happy New Year! Jonathan "
Wouldn't tightening the lead edge that much reduce the longevity of the material? Life if a compromise. I'm a beginner, but have years of RC experience. Those tips are more to bleed off the vacuum of lateral air flow compared to the wing tip turbulence created by the sudden stop of wing tip vortexes created otherwise. Not for lift or trimming purposes. Please correct me if I am wrong in my theory. My instructor has these on his as well and have asked him about that and his reply was that they don't do enough to make much of a difference anyways. He flys everything and trains students on everything also. Trikes, Hang gliders, airplanes... He's really good too. I am a proud student of his training and vast knowledge. But I can't help but wonder what your thoughts on this are? Way to ride that bucking bronco!!!!!!! Good flight. Not sure about using skids here in AZ desert though. LOL
Hi Garry, The leading edge tension you see here is insignificant compared to fatigue and elongation proprieties of this laminate fabric. The purpose of the tips is to reattach the airflow by tightening the vortex along the outboard leading edge. The tips have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with handling at the Reynolds numbers we operate at. If the tips aren't tuned correctly they do very little to enhance the handling and may make it worse. The tuning must be coordinated with the construction of the particular tip design as well as the tuning of the glider they are attached to. Don't believe the fairy tales to read about raked tips. Nearly all of the stories and ad copy I have read are better off disregarded as such. Since I have not consulted with your instructor I cannot comment on anything you have reported here or what he has told you. In AZ you need to land firmly on your feet. I have flown there enough to know this. Skids can be an asset however and even more so for the pneumatic wheels. I wish you well in your training. Cheers, Jonathan
@@SoarSoCal Thanks Jonathan. The last flight had a lot of bumpity bumps and I found myself downwind of some power lines that I wasn't sure I would clear during the base to final turn. In the video, it shows plenty of room, but I just kept feeling for the slightest sink that would put me in danger. I had already picked out a alternate landing spot, but I, being a newbie, didn't KNOW that I would make it. Learned a lesson the easy way that time. I let the landing zone out of sight on the base leg for too long and drifted. That should never escape my attention again. Whew! Made me forget all about getting upright until it was time to land. I'm such a newbie. LOL I'll be good about that from now on. I ended up flaring too high in more wind than I've ever landed in. HAHAHa,, All part of the journey.
@@SoarSoCal What drives me is the thought of launching off a hill and getting smoothish lift to cloud base (eventually because getting in lift the first time is going to be weird for me and uncomfortable) and soaring. Ridge lift or thermal don't matter, but just experiencing lift for the first time. My last tow to 2000 and the constant small bumps was new to me and shifted my focus from just flying along and practicing my coordinated turns and stalls etc. to focusing on loose hands on the bar to get a feel for what the wing does on it's own in that bumpy air close to sunset. I consider myself a quick learner, but when so much is at stake, I find myself easily distracted by the new experiences causing me to forget the basics to a small, yet not insignificant, degree. Not really a big deal, but definitely noticeable. Sometimes hearing a new pilots perspective can reignite an experienced pilots passion. I know I've been being tested and trained to get more experience on the wing, and I appreciate that. At the same time, I would like some more easy stuff to build confidence. It's totally up to me to share this with my very trusted instructor, and I will. But it wasn't just the last flight, it was the one before that as well. my instructor actually towed me up and he told me that he gave that Dragonfly with a 915????/ Big motor, all it had and climbed as steep as he could. I've never had to push out on the bar the whole tow before. So this early, to have 2 flights in a row, that hard, although well within my capabilities, hit my confidence just a bit. At the same time I am telling myself 2 things. One,,,,, I am going to have to learn this sooner or later, and two,,,,,,,I may be letting him push me harder than what is comfortable. Now,,, I know that staying in my comfort zone will keep me from advancing, but,,,,,, Well ,,,,, I just answered my own question. I'll ask for a few more flights of easy air and at least one easy one just before taking on more bumpy stuff. I'm looking forward to more bumpy, just not too much just yet. LOL I never once have felt in any kind of danger. Only discomfort. I need to suck it up and just do it. I know that I can release at any time. I think though that foot launching into early morning thermic conditions would afford me a better experience than having to get towed up through all that crap also.
hey Jonathan, my new Alto is showing up next week and I understand you built a custom set of tips for yours? I wanted to get some insight in how you built them.. thanks, Glenn
![[Narrated] A tale of 8 fourteeners - my longest and highest flight](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7wpIbHjYuFc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Narrated] A tale of 8 fourteeners - my longest and highest flight](/img/tr.png)
Great to see you are still killing it !!!! Well done sir
Thank you esquire!
I know a bunch of pilots who do fly with raked tips and every one of them honestly confessed to me that they do not feel any difference when installed or not... :D
They make such claims to make money off of people. To be honest with you, I doubt that this raked tip adds any aerodynamic effects to glider performance. It's a scam.
Unless I have personally flown a specific glider with and without a particular set of raked tips and I cannot confirm one way or another. In my experience some tips make a glider worse and others do nothing and some make a major difference in handling. Every glider is different and adding tips may improve handling or not.
@@Liger._King and you are putting your ignorance on display for all to see.
It’s easy to test the effectiveness of raked tiplets. Install only one side and see how the glider flies. Then swap to the other side. If there is no tangible difference, such as a turn one way or the other, you have your answer.
@@tontar will try to convince pilots with raked tips to try
Interesting about raked tips
test pilot Jon
Always.
I also owe one Sport 3 and have trouble with remowing tip wands when breakdown.. You have so much knowlage about this glider, so maybe you can make one video about that. All the best!
Detension the crossbar first. WW has a terrible tip wand. On top race models from Moyes its done with finger tips compared to wills wing. But, technique will help you. Search ww tip wand on UA-cam.
Love it, you digg'n the S3?
Thanks. I sure enjoy this glider!
Great, possible you need to use some bearing ones )))
LOLz!
How did you tighten your leading edge?
There is a clevis pin inside the sail that connects the inboard and outboard leading edge tubes. Instructions are in the manual.
salut , dommage qu'il y est pas une traduction en français !!
Je m'en excuse. J'ai été expulsé des cours de français pendant mes études au collège parce que j'étais un clown de classe. Je crains que vous n'ayez à recruter quelqu'un qui comprend ce dont je parle et parle couramment les deux langues. Alternativement, je pourrais écrire un script en anglais et peut-être qu'il sera possible de le traduire?
Bonne année!
Jonathan
"I appologize for this. I was expelled from French lessons while I was attending middle school because I was a class clown. I am afraid you will have to recruit someone who understands what I am discussing and is fluent in both languages. Alternately I could write a script in English and maybe it will be possible to translate this?
Happy New Year!
Jonathan "
Wouldn't tightening the lead edge that much reduce the longevity of the material? Life if a compromise. I'm a beginner, but have years of RC experience. Those tips are more to bleed off the vacuum of lateral air flow compared to the wing tip turbulence created by the sudden stop of wing tip vortexes created otherwise. Not for lift or trimming purposes. Please correct me if I am wrong in my theory. My instructor has these on his as well and have asked him about that and his reply was that they don't do enough to make much of a difference anyways. He flys everything and trains students on everything also. Trikes, Hang gliders, airplanes... He's really good too. I am a proud student of his training and vast knowledge. But I can't help but wonder what your thoughts on this are?
Way to ride that bucking bronco!!!!!!! Good flight. Not sure about using skids here in AZ desert though. LOL
Hi Garry,
The leading edge tension you see here is insignificant compared to fatigue and elongation proprieties of this laminate fabric.
The purpose of the tips is to reattach the airflow by tightening the vortex along the outboard leading edge.
The tips have almost nothing to do with performance and everything to do with handling at the Reynolds numbers we operate at.
If the tips aren't tuned correctly they do very little to enhance the handling and may make it worse.
The tuning must be coordinated with the construction of the particular tip design as well as the tuning of the glider they are attached to.
Don't believe the fairy tales to read about raked tips. Nearly all of the stories and ad copy I have read are better off disregarded as such.
Since I have not consulted with your instructor I cannot comment on anything you have reported here or what he has told you.
In AZ you need to land firmly on your feet. I have flown there enough to know this. Skids can be an asset however and even more so for the pneumatic wheels.
I wish you well in your training.
Cheers,
Jonathan
@@SoarSoCal Thanks Jonathan. The last flight had a lot of bumpity bumps and I found myself downwind of some power lines that I wasn't sure I would clear during the base to final turn. In the video, it shows plenty of room, but I just kept feeling for the slightest sink that would put me in danger. I had already picked out a alternate landing spot, but I, being a newbie, didn't KNOW that I would make it. Learned a lesson the easy way that time. I let the landing zone out of sight on the base leg for too long and drifted. That should never escape my attention again. Whew! Made me forget all about getting upright until it was time to land. I'm such a newbie. LOL I'll be good about that from now on. I ended up flaring too high in more wind than I've ever landed in. HAHAHa,, All part of the journey.
I never stop learning and re-learning. Things don't stick like they sued to. for me. Glad you have your enthusiasm. Mine seldom wanes.
@@SoarSoCal What drives me is the thought of launching off a hill and getting smoothish lift to cloud base (eventually because getting in lift the first time is going to be weird for me and uncomfortable) and soaring. Ridge lift or thermal don't matter, but just experiencing lift for the first time. My last tow to 2000 and the constant small bumps was new to me and shifted my focus from just flying along and practicing my coordinated turns and stalls etc. to focusing on loose hands on the bar to get a feel for what the wing does on it's own in that bumpy air close to sunset. I consider myself a quick learner, but when so much is at stake, I find myself easily distracted by the new experiences causing me to forget the basics to a small, yet not insignificant, degree. Not really a big deal, but definitely noticeable. Sometimes hearing a new pilots perspective can reignite an experienced pilots passion. I know I've been being tested and trained to get more experience on the wing, and I appreciate that. At the same time, I would like some more easy stuff to build confidence. It's totally up to me to share this with my very trusted instructor, and I will. But it wasn't just the last flight, it was the one before that as well. my instructor actually towed me up and he told me that he gave that Dragonfly with a 915????/ Big motor, all it had and climbed as steep as he could. I've never had to push out on the bar the whole tow before. So this early, to have 2 flights in a row, that hard, although well within my capabilities, hit my confidence just a bit. At the same time I am telling myself 2 things. One,,,,, I am going to have to learn this sooner or later, and two,,,,,,,I may be letting him push me harder than what is comfortable. Now,,, I know that staying in my comfort zone will keep me from advancing, but,,,,,, Well ,,,,, I just answered my own question. I'll ask for a few more flights of easy air and at least one easy one just before taking on more bumpy stuff. I'm looking forward to more bumpy, just not too much just yet. LOL I never once have felt in any kind of danger. Only discomfort. I need to suck it up and just do it. I know that I can release at any time. I think though that foot launching into early morning thermic conditions would afford me a better experience than having to get towed up through all that crap also.
Good video, but seems hard to understand the point.
Thanks. I'm sure I could have made it more clear.
hey Jonathan, my new Alto is showing up next week and I understand you built a custom set of tips for yours? I wanted to get some insight in how you built them.. thanks, Glenn