Why bodybuilders look different today than in the 70's | Peter Attia & Derek MPMD
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2023
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This clip is from episode 274 - Performance-enhancing drugs and hormones-risks, rewards, & broader implications for the public
In this episode, Peter is joined by Derek, the entrepreneur behind @MorePlatesMoreDates and an expert in molecules commonly used and misused by bodybuilders and athletes.
In this clip, we discuss:
- Why bodybuilders look different
- The evolution of training, nutrition, or drugs and their effect on modern-day bodybuilder
- Growth Hormone and its relation to early death
- How bodybuilders tend to lie about their drug usage
- And more
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
Learn more: peterattiamd.com
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From a random guy in a tank top in his basement to holding conversations with doctors on podcasts, I must give all due respect to Derrick! The nerdiest stud I’ve ever come across
*Sauna
Derek has prolly saved thousands of lives. Salute to him
@@chickentoucher55lmao dam autocorrect
@@coltonkosto98*Under rated!!
Legit stud for sure. When geniuses like Dr Attia and Andrew Huberman refer to him for his subject matter expertise.
I love Derek’s skepticism of the low dosage myth of bodybuilders. Dude smart not buy into that bs
Or is Derek jealous that he's done truckloads of gear and looks like the average guy at your local gym,
and Lee Haney did a small amount of steroids, with intelligent training and diet and won 8 consecutive Olympia titles?
@@glennhankins6927 or your favourite bodybuilder lied?
@@youokaybuddyfitness If Haney or ANY lifter from that era lied about their usage it would have been exposed right away because in that era most of the pros trained together, ate together and shared their methods, and cycle info honestly with each other. The man won 8 Olympias in a row, do you not think that would cause the other pros to come forward sometime in the last 30 years and expose him for lying about his cycle?
@@glennhankins6927 liars get away with lies a lot of times bro. Not even sure what Haney claimed but if it's as ridiculous as arnold and others who don't even meet the criteria of a TRT and change stories every year then odds are low. He could be the one hyper-responder but when dozens claim the same then something is off, they can't all be. Given how bodybuilders especially back then underplay their drug use for obvious reasons (muh HrD work muh genetics) then you can't tell who's honest. Once you are on roids you will be tempted to add more at this level, hard to believe he will play it safe and for what? You are ALREADY on steroids bro can't be health conscious AND and an enhanced bodybuilder at the top lmao
@@glennhankins6927Derek looks average????
He does now because he does not workout at all and just does TRT which doesn't make you jacked, just feel normal.
Dude had one of the wildest bodies I've ever seen.
If that's average then I feel bad for how you judge yourself in the mirror bro. Idk if you're trolling, but that's a problem with the body building community they have severe body dysmorphia
Derek's knowledge is just legendary at this point.
I talked to top 70's pro Casey Viator in person in Florida a few years before he died. He told me this..."don't believe the lies of some from my era. We were just as reckless then as they are today except we didn't have GH or tren and we didn't use insulin. Here is a typical stack from the days I trained with Mike Mentzer; 1500 mg of nandralone a week, 50 of dbol(8 weeks of dbol) a day plus 500 or more of primo per week. Arnold loved primo as did we all and a gram a week was commonly used. I think guys are so much bigger today primarily because of trenbolone use, which is by far the strongest anabolic on the planet and super harsh too I might add, but also because of insulin and HGH"
Nice because I have always been attributing the difference in the use of GH and insulin. The older generations still looked aesthetically human in the face, skin and gut
Yeah, insulin + GH
Also don’t for get how there doing INSULIN now
I've always been of the opinion that the biggest driving factor is the drugs. The types, formulation, dosage, and frequency. I believe this because, if you look at natural physiques, they haven't changed much at all in the last five decades other than becoming more consistent. It's the physiques of the those that compete in the untested federations that have changed massively.
You're looking at the wrong natural physiques then.
The top naturals of today are so much better than 50 years ago
@@belasstrongestwarrior They probably still use that something something that's not as powerful
@@belasstrongestwarrior brother you are buying in to the "natural" hype.
Naturals today are using drugs, just not bioidentical ones 😂 and they look WAY different
@@belasstrongestwarrior The amount of natural fitness influencers is TINY.
Almost all of them use gear.
Even your normal every day gym is filled with people using PEDs.
Problem is that bodybuilding is a beauty pageant and size is one of the few criteria where you can objectively rank people, so it becomes an arms race even if the competition judges aesthetics, symmetry, posing, etc... When the competition at the top is tight, size ultimately always become the difference maker, and that's why competitors just keeps getting bigger. It happened to men physique as well, the very division that is trying to get away from size.
lol 'arms race', pun intended
It just takes one bodybuilder champion who has amazing aesthetics to change its coursr.
@@tc98826 Aesthetics is harder to quantify than size, what is pleasing to the eye to one person may not be the case for other, that's why size has always been the difference maker at the end. The competition at the top is very tight, it's really hard for one person to have vastly superior aesthetics than the competition, or else we'd already see that.
@@plutoburn Arnie wasnt the biggest. Or Frank Zane
@@tc98826we had Shaun rodhen, he did it, and then he passed right after 😢 but that guy won with aesthetics over size in recent times
One fact you can always rely on:
I’m not trusting any social media body builders on their drug use now, and I’ll be damned if I trust bodybuilders from the 70s either 😂
I like how sport and looks associated with lack of health and drugs. It really shows the root that is unhealthy and and out of itself by being body dysmorphia.
Yeah, there has always been O'Hearns around.
I think when it comes to the 70s, it was a long time ago for them and they may not have even known their exact dosages back then much less now after many years have passed. You'll notice when old school bodybuilders talk about their does they don't even say how much they are taking just one or two of this some of that.
@@DrHDoofenshmirtzphd these men counted macros for decades, micromanaged every single little thing they put in their body to scrape out every last inch of growth possible…. They know the cycles they did 😂
@@seanohare3509 First of all, guys in the 70s weren't that strict with their diets. You are confusing modern day bodybuilders with them. Old school bodybuilders didn't get nearly as lean and didn't obsessively count their macros. Secondly, most modern bodybuilders have other people make their drug use plans for them. Derek who also said you'd be surprised how little bodybuilders know what they take in this video has consulted and created plans for bodybuilders, but I guess you know more than him.
Bigorexia is a big problem in the US. I'm not inspired by any drug use and that includes PED's. It voids you of the opportunity to really grow and to learn to master yourself. Drug use is gluttony, it's disease management.
Ask a smoker how much they smoke, it's always much less than their actual use. Same goes for bodybuilders of the past, if they admitted to how much gear they really used, it would discredit their past achievements.
To be fair when you are surrounded by 500 pound plus fatties being 220 cut won't make you seem big.......
One thing they didn’t talk about was the direction the judges took when they started rewarding mass monsters like Dorian. Everybody was chasing size.
I’m with Derek on the old timers saying they didn’t take as much drugs. I don’t doubt it was less than today but I think they like saying they were ‘better’ than the guys competing now by lowering the amount of drugs they took.
I compare it to pro wrestlers and kayfabe. The old-timers never drop the gimmick.
They were better
You can multiply by 3 or 4 of what they're saying ... That's the real dose.
The guys today look like mutants with their turtle shell distended bellies and resting blood pressure at 200/120.
@@oldmedstudent1750Lol that's such an accurate description. I might add they look like that double-muscled cattle.
Refreshing to see Derek crushing Attias naivety about the self reported dosages of some 70 bbs and debunking the myth of the low dose steroid “golden era” . 😂
Pretty sure you need actual FACTS to debunk something lol he just said he "heard" lol
@@ninjajunior4422 Hitchen's razor applies to the original claim he was debunking. These people randomly "claimed" to be taking 100-200mg, whereas Derek is presenting an understanding of anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology to refute those claims.
You're quite literally comparing hearsay to actual concrete logic and science. It's far more likely the people who had something to hide were...hiding something. Imagine that.
@@ninjajunior4422 The only difference between talk of drug use in weightlifting (see Bill Starr) and in bodybuilding of the same period is that bodybuilding played it down or said nothing. There's no way on earth that weightlifters and bodybuilders in York Barbell club (many one and same) weren't doing equal amounts. Everyone knows the place was a Dianabol dispensary.
@@baronmeduse what year did Dorian bring in HGH? Around 1996 wasn't it?
@@ninjajunior4422 Don't know. I lost interest in competitive bodybuilding by then.
All the goodwill and curiosity Arnie, Frank Zane, Franco Columbu created in the 1970s has now completely gone even Arnold says its regressed into a boardline freak show with huge heavy guys who can't do a simple stomach vacuum on stage not to mention the crazy mortality rate amongst the modern guys.
Frank Zane has always been my model of what bodybuilding should be. Lean and proportioned. He looked like a bodybuilder who is also an athlete.
Steve Reeves for me but Zane is a close 2nd
defenitly not an atlhete, it depends which sport you practice of course but as a general rule i dont see anyone that weights significantly more than their height. Like if you are 1.80 mts you cannot weight more than 90kg and be atlhetic at the same time. For performance i would go much lower than that
Me too. He found the golden middle way between strength, aesthetics and functionality.
Wouldnt place top 6 in mens physique these days tho
@@JACKPOTTT777 Unfortunately, I think you are right.
More Plates is correct.I trained with Jim Quinn, he told me he was doing 60 thousand dollars of roids a year.That was 1976.
tf? thats a lot of money
I believe it.
cocaine aint a steroid Dawggy
Where was the $$$ coming from? That is likely 3-4x what he was making a year!
@@mikekarena There are 3 revenue streams in bodybuilding. Contracts, guest posing and g4p.
I’m growing to like Derek more and more. He’s a down-to-earth, very smart dude!
slurp away
He wouldn't have used steroids if he was smart. I'm going to teach my nephews to never use steroids except for trt therapy once they are in their 50s. And I'll teach them they're not allowed to touch the weight pile/iron until after they can do 500 pushups, 500, situps, and 500 body weight squats in an hour and 45 minutes or less and that's just the warm up to have the privilege to use the weights. I'm 360lbs and I can do it no reason a the average 170lb man can't do more push ups than me.
@@free_icecream76Wtf
If by smart you mean googling stuff then sure. Dude has never achieved anything in bodybuilding and has no education. Hes the definition of an armchair expert.
@@TravisH-nm9fy He's having an intelligent conversation about human physiology with a medical doctor. I don't know why we should be somehow more impressed if he got his bachelor's in nutrition.
Lee Haney was the best of both eras, only hinting at the future. Dorian was the beginning of today's physiques.
Mike Mentzer needs to be in the conversation along side Arnold and Haney, oliva and Zane. I believe that that was the best era in bodybuilding.
Oliva is dead
The dude was just improvising and naming people who actually won Olympias, not people who 'should have won'
Why...he lost one Olympia to a 6 time Mr Olympia and quit bodybuilding for good. So what if it was rigged...he was not a "great" bodybuilder if that's all it took to quit
@@davidkymdell452 PENCIL NECK DO U LIVE IN MOMMYS BASEMENT U HAVE ZERO IDEA WHAT MIKE WENT THRU SO OBVIOUSLY RIGGED MIKE WAS NOT GOING TO LOWER HIMSELF IN THAT WORLD ANY LONGER GET YOUR G.E.D. AND A JOB AND OUTTA MOMMY'S BASEMENT LMAO
Heavy duty club 💪
Around 1967, I was in grade school and walked to a corner market, hole on the wall, and one of my friends picked up a bodybuilding magazine. The cover had someone like Dave Draper on it. We had never seen anything like that before and we concluded that their muscles were plastic.
Yes!! I remember those Dave Draper arm photos !!!
Have u ever met any of the legends during the golden era? You must be over 60 years old right
@@bychen5011nah, I used to work out at Dave Draper’s gym. Oh, wait I’m 50.
Damn Derek , more than holding your own with a doctor !!! You’re such a beast bro . Congrats on your success
great clip, the production style for these is sooo nice
Derrick is amazing. Clearly a very bright individual, who I think, and hope, has helped a lot of people who want to engage in the body building lifestyle. Its so odd that watched this tonight. My nephew was over tonight and watching Jeresey Shore with my wife (yep its still going). I was grilling some steaks and making dinner and we started talking about Vinny from the show. Vinny is a just a regular built guy. The rest of the male cast is all steroid gym rats. He thought Vinny probably had self esteem issues being around all those guys his whole life, because he wasnt as big.
Now, Im a much bigger person than Vinny. Im 6'2 and 230 right as a 54 yr old man. The thing is, I'm from NJ, I'm Italian, I had beach houses every year for a decade in Pt Pleasant Beach, and all my boys were huge gym rats on roids. I never did it, I never wanted to be big. In my 20s and early 30s when i was at the gym 6 days a week,for 2 hrs, I was 190ish going to the beach and 195 comming home. I had a nice physique. I didnt have a 6 pack or veins. Im not genetically gifted with much more than being a big person. I have wide shoulders and a wide waiste and a belly that sticks out a bit, even without fat. I knew if I did roids I would look great and be a really big musclar guy but it was never my thing. I didnt want that mass to carry around with me for the rest of my life. In the end I explained to my nephew that not everyone wants the ramifications of gear, and Vinny and myself were happy enough with our bodies to avoid it.
NOw the world has changed drastically since I was in my 20s and 30s. THere was always a type of girl that like the real streroid monsters, the really big dudes, that there was no question about. Now that type of girl is a whole a new thing...Shes tated up, has big fake breats that dont match her body at all, and legs the size of Earl Campbell. I'm in the gym seeing the same girls work out every day, and do very little but squat, dead lift and pelvic thrust, and likely doing as much roids as the monster dudes in the gym.
Amazing? He promotes young men to use finasteride a detrimental neurological medication in which castrates people. Just because he uses the word efficacious and reads studies does NOT mean he is a bright individual! He's helped push many men in the direction of suicide and he should be held responsible for his dangerous teachings. Dudes far from HIGHLY intelligent
That’s crazy man, you ever tried ayahuasca ?
Oh dont start with women man..
im not a gym guy i exercise but i cant get my consistency on point. anyway, on YT or any platform all i see is females exercise their a$$. like do they actually think that's the most important muscle for longevity.. so clueless they annoy me
what the hell does that even have to do with anything, lmao. @@JMG0305
I was just talking to someone about my frustration of chics only doing pelvic thrusts, squats, and hip flexor exercises when going to the gym. Some do it literally every day and take up machine time lol
Production of human growth hormone by recombinant DNA tech was approved by FDA in 1985. Prior to that, hgh was only available from cadavers and prohibitively expensive for your average bodybuilder. That's one of the main reasons.
Not only it was expensive, there was no market to speak of. Cadaver GH and early recombinant one was directly distributed to research centers to be used in clinical studies.
So much of this info was just known 20 years ago on the forums. I am 47 and very little i have heard Derek say is news. He definately has brought it to everyone, but that was not what we were trying to do. We were trying to not kill ourselves and there were lots of very intelligent guys who knew the science. Just an FYI, bodybuilders knew about Propecia (Prosar from Mexico) at least a decade before it was released in the US.
The collab I never knew I needed
dude, so much knowledge from these 2 guys
It's kind of interesting to see the difference between their knowledge, too. Like, when asked questions about the exact physiological function of one drug or another, Derek sometimes has to really think about it (although he can generally come up with an answer that at least sounds reasonable). Meanwhile, Peter does that kind of thing pretty much instantly.
OTOH, you get into actual practical questions about how people use performance enhancing drugs and its practical ramifications? Peter kinda speculates, Derek has his instant answer.
I don't think the 70s guys were trying to get as big as possible. They were expected to have a vacuum pose, talked about symmetry, etc. Franco Colombo was nearly as strong as Ronnie Coleman, but under 200 lbs. They may have felt unhealthy at competition size and wanted to live long healthy lives. They viewed bodybuilding as a fundamentally healthy activity, so they lost a significant amount of weight off season and they turned out to be right and mostly lived past 70.
This is true of bronze era strongmen imo (the focus on health, gymnastics, different types of strength etc). I’m not sure about the 70’s. By then imo they were all trying to get as big as they could. The difference in look was more because that’s what bodybuilding at the time could do.
@@HkFinn83 They certainly took test/dbol, but I don't think they were pushing the doses to the extremes we have seen since the 90s and I don't think they were on cycle year round. I think they still thought they were engaging in a "healthy" activity whereas by the 90s, even amateur bodybuilders at your local gym would openly admit that they didn't care about health and knew they were taking health risks.
@@therationalpiper7428 yeh thats what I think, the PEDs were not as extreme. But they were trying.
This is wrong imo. Arnold was trying to get big and was winning bcz he was bigger than the others.
You are correct they were not dying in their 40’s
Great content Dr Attia
Derek is dead on with how much people lie. It’s so bad for the industry and kids thinking they should take this stuff.
Absolutely GOATED Derek!
Derek should be extremely proud of all his hard work. He’s seriously a go to guy in the fitness world now. And why??? Experience, knowledge. Because he doesn’t BS! He’s a honest stand up dude and we all crave that.
I started my recreational bodybuilding lifestyle because of Arnold Schwartzenegger in 1976 at the age of fifteen. Frank Zane, Bob Paris and Chris Dickerson had the ideal physiques. Very statuesque. If I see a photo of a bodybuilder today my first reaction is gross WTF! Creatine is about the extent I would go, the rest of what they do is for the "instant" glory and not even thinking about the long term damage they are doing to themselves.
Dorian Yates talks about how he didn't want people to look at him and think, "wow, what a great physique he has", he wanted people to think, "holy sh*t, WTF is that?".
I'd agree with most of your points. In my view, some of today's bodybuilders look majestic (Von Moger, Bustead), although there are plenty of your Rich Pianas out there with minced meat looking muscles who are difficult to look at. I'd also disagree on the instant component of PED use. It still takes a fuckload of dieting and working out to achieve results even when you're on gear, especially if you want to compete.
You're implying that Zane Paris and Dickerson weren't using AAS lmfao
I agree.
I started around 1972 and Arnold was a huge influence.
Had to buy magazines back then to learn anything!!!!!
I have a signed copy of Arnold's book after he came to CT promoting it.
Things were very different back then.
Bob Paris literal greek god physique, aesthetically probably top 3 all time. Amazing, underrated bodybuilder
Fascinating. I've always wondered about this.
This is like someone flying a Boeing 747 from reading the manual. Derek’s story is unbelievadle
Derek has a lot of knowledge and a great, easy to listen to speaking voice. It was nice to hear him discuss the topic without the needless profanity.
Fuck
Amazing perspective
Very smart conversation.😮
I had to tune out when the “70’s era bodybuilders were basically on TRT”. Of course they are going to downplay it. I saw somewhere that that Arnold claimed 15mg dianabol per day. He and Sergio were the biggest juicers of their day. I’m not discrediting anyone here either but come on....
Plenty of people said that Arnold was literally taking dbol by a handfull without even counting the tablets and I'm pretty sure that Oliva took as much stuff as he could stomach just like all competitive weightlifters around the world did before testing became a thing.
Today’s bodybuilders just do not look right today. I just prefer the look of the bodybuilder of the golden era.
Because they were sculpting a look. They wanted to look good. Today they just want as.much mass as possible and don't care what it looks like.
Steve reeves still blows them all away proportion wise
Then watch Classic Physique, or the super heavies in open, they’re huge but have a good shape to them
I’m 58. In the past I’ve done the training, I’ve done the supplements, I’ve done nutrition. I’ve never taken drugs. I’ve never been good enough to be competitive in BB.
One of the biggest changes was popularising testosterone as a base, instead of dianabol,or nandrolone. Testosterone on its own hilds a lot more water than the other two compounds on their own.
Second is diet. In the golden era high fat low carb diets were a lot more popular. Like "stakes and eggs" for example. Again carbs hold a lot more water, than fats,or protein.
Lastly is the training style. Well... People back then did train heavier and a lot of them were doing powerlifting and oly lifting. However there are plenty of people who train heavy today, the only big difference is today people use a lot more machines instead of free weights. Today besides squat,bench,deadlift and rows most other stuff is done on machines.
The silver era diet was the most sensible, high carb, low protein and low fat.
Big needs protein though and lots of it
i'd say it's definitely more the addition of GH+insulin
70s and 80s we’re definitely the years when guys “in the know” used more anabolics than androgens. These physiques typically represented better v-taper with high level muscularity and fewer “boxy” features
Columbo and Zane were my favorites in the golden era but my favorite physiques overall were early to middle silver era guys because you knew they were natty. Marvin Eder Leroy Colbert Steve Reeves. Billy Ralph in the Bronze era had an insane physique too.
But its your mistake too believeing they were natural. Steve Reeves were not natural. He was not on high dosagens but that body was not natty and everyone with little steroid experiênce can see It.
@@SkeletalMisunderstandinglol that's bullshit and you know it. Stop.
I was on Dbol, Sustanon and Deca in the 90s. I didn't start growing a second head until I got on the Growth hormone
did you need a test base?
what do you think sustanon is?@@wansworld27
Congratulations on your transition, I guess. Though I find it strange that it's GH, and not androgens, that made you develop a penis.
@@wansworld27sustanon…
Sustanon is test@@wansworld27
@PeterAttiaMD The "Watch the full episode" link is wrong.
I admire plenty of professionals from early 90's till today just for their dedication and discipline(cause being professioanl BB is hands down the most difficult sport of all time)...... but the "golden era" of bodybuilding(60's, 70's, 80's) can never be beaten...... massive, YET beautiful physiques...... those people who were fortunate enough to meet offseason Arnold or Sergio Oliva back in early 70's, must've been completely BLOWN AWAY..... you're not gonna recreate such majestic physiques with today's drugs
Good clip. My type of content .
PETER AND DEREK TALKING ❤
If the question is why the dramatic change occurred we can't ignore the factor of judging. When the sport's definition changes for what is scored favorably then the physiques will change even without the external effects. Like right now if the standards suddenly revert it wouldn't matter what the competitors can do, because the mass monsters would not fit the new requirements and would not get scored to the top.
Sad thing about steroid use is destroying the heart, the most important muscle in the body, for the sake of developing the others.
The guys from late 60s to mid 80s are mostly passing away at age 75+, Bill Pearl was 91 years old. Lower doses of PEDs are obviously “healthier”
Yeah. Well, it depends on the dose, how long they're on it, etc. If someone does 500mg of test for 12 weeks twice in their life, their heart may be better off than it otherwise would have been. But these guys pinning a gram a week and then cruising on 300...yikes.
In bodybuilding, perfect genetics is number one in importance. The other three they mention is secondary. You will not look like Ronnie Coleman without perfect genetics, no matter how much drug you took, or how hard you worked out, or how good your diet is.
Really? The are a lot of bodybuilders that won contests and also Mr O with bad genetics. Look at Paul Dillet without gear,he looks less the your average Joe. Chris Dickerson won Mr O.
The effect of nutrition and training are negligible compared to the drugs. I'm saying that as someone who trained athletes and bodybuilders for over 25 years. Modern bodybuilders could train and eat (adjusting for calories) identically to 70s and 80s bodybuilders with today's gear, and the size would be pretty much the same.
He’s right. There’s no way those bodybuilders were taking anything less than 500mg of test and probably 50-100mg of dbol a day.
I could see 300mg of test. It would only take a high end natty 3-4 cycles at 500mg to get to roughly where Arnold was.
But these claims of taking 100-200 are a joke.
Genetics are changing, and the quality of food is changing. The genetics of different populations is becoming more mixed and diffuse, and the quality of food is going down with additives, pesticides, and genetic modification.
Lee and Dorian changed the game
Derek needs that sunshine regiment pretty soon
i think derek hit it on the head when he said some ppl just don't know, i remember watching those platz interviews, where the bb faces are blurred out, when asked, some of those where like, well i four pills of this and two vials of that.., as if that was a measure of anything, they had no concept of milligrams or concentrations
Which just goes to show that it ain't knowledge that wins the day, it's being willing and able to jam your body full of drugs for as long as possible.
The old school style is much more aesthetic IMO.
Silver era goals for me 💯
I took Andro by optimum nutrition (had dhea, tribulus), fall, 2001 and results were amazing; hour before lifting, took with creatine, dhea, and could do several sets of dips starting with 2 dozen, successive until only about 7-8 reps, 4th set; without, could barely do 3-4 dips, Andro was amazing; in fact, felt euphoria after lifting, never before or since, would love to know of pre-work which would do that today
I’d say the culture of the time as well. The ideal physic the body builders were seeking were different at that time. You also see it in female models. A woman in a bikini shoot in the 20’s 30’s 40’s and 50’s looked different from women in the 80’s 90’s and today.
I think the cutting drugs and diuretics abuse should also be mentioned more. Bodybuilders got way leaner in the 90s. Arnold would be considered out of shape and not conditioned at a modern pro bodybuilding show.
How Dare you Sir to tarnish Arnolds legacy like so !!
Stronger connective tissue reduces dissection events....it is the opposite that increases the risks e.g marfan, ehlder-danlos, Loeys-Dietz. It is simply CHF and hypetrophic myocardiopathy ( with extremely low EF )
Wrong link to main episode.
look at the bikini competitors. it has been only 10 years and the first miss bikini olympia is very different from recent ones :(
The drugs have “improved “. That’s the only explanation
I took CJC 1295 / Ipamorelin and found it made me crave sugar as well as simply making me hungry. I get the hungry part, but does the sugar craving have a medical reason.
I met Grimkowski in Orlando in the late 70s. He was very open about his use of large quantities.
Lol.....The HUGE change happened with Yates. The terrible huge gut....The onset of the crazy use of drugs , specifically HGH, and insulin coupled with the steroids. I started training 55 years ago and saw the 69 and 70 Mr Olympias.. They've turned what was once a great sport into a CHEMICAL FREAK SHOW !!!
It was never a sport, always an art exhibition...
Hgh and insulin ruined bodybuilding
I have been bodybuilding for 35 years I can answer this. Surprised Derek was not more direct. In rough terms not without using drug names but the idea in dosage from 70's to 2023 it kind of goes like this add an analogy; 70's 500mg a week 2 to 3 month cycles then off on nothing. 80's 500mg to 700mg week time on off same as above. 90's changed a lot after 93ish 1200 to 1700mg + GH and insulin. The big change started early 2000's 3000mg combined but from 2015 to present just Test went to 3000-5000 and combined cycles 5K to 8K combines. The answer to the question 70's to 2023 DRUGS 500mg to 5000 to 8000K.
Your spot on! I was in the late 80's competing and never went over 500mg of test in a week, never went beyond 1 anadrol 50 a day, 20 mg d-bol a day, 200 mg deca a week...I got big as a house and we would stay on no more than 3 months take a month off of everything..I also think the quality of the drugs were better back then. I used name brand drugs except for D-bol.
@@nonconformist58. It seems like nowadays many of the drugs are either fake or just not what they're labeled as. Was that an issue when you competed?
@@andytwentyman9573 In the 80's we had the originals to test the counterfeits so it was very hard to buy fake gear...for example Deca was made by Organon, Winstrol V was made by Winthorp, Equipoise by Squibb...I never trusted the generic stuff unless it was from a major pharmaceutical company
Yeah those monochromatic photographs used specialized high contrast film to bring their physiques out. That's gonna give it a unique look that won't be seen otherwise
Slightly different issue but always been curious as to the difference between bodybuilders and your world's strongest man type guys. Might make a podcast if not done already
I think training is different
He’s done the podcast you’re describing with layne Norton
@@luxurybuzz3681 Training, diet, drugs...almost everything.
Doctors that know what Acromegaly is? 😮👏
Besides less drugs, the bodybuilders back in the day did more full body training, and varied training. Guys like Bill Pearl did whole body programs, and strongman. Arnold started out with whole body programs. Arnold jogged. They just seemed more totally fit, allthough they had less muscle. Now its all body part splits and doing every drug available. They are bigger, but muscle seems more bloated.
Today's top bodybuilders can't run normaly at all. They can walk, that's it.
Reminds me of the video Jusup Wilkosz and Albert Beckles Jogging and lifting
@@b.hornetiii.6771 They can't even wipe their own asses too
It’s almost like dog breeding, and a lot of the body builders now are like those XXL bully’s that can hardly walk, whereas the bodybuilders of the 70’s still appeared somewhat athletic, like regular pitbulls
fascinating!!!!!!!! WOWWWWWWWWW!!!
Haney, Yates, and Nasser El Sonbaty for new were the dudes that really changed the landscape. Nasser was a monster.
"Hey why do guys who are 70 pounds heavier look different"
JFC
From one of those dummies that didn't know what he was doing, I was injecting 400mg a week of test and 200mg of Masteron then one of my buddies told me to include some Winny, I had no idea what I was putting in my body but the guys that introduced me to it were taking 500-1500mg of test a week some Tren (I don't know how much) and GH plus god knows what else< I started in my late 40's only did it for 3 years off and on then it shut my Liver down spent a couple weeks in the hospital, months trying to get my liver to function like it should and now I'm on TRT (jell no injections) and I'm going to tell you it wasn't worth it BUT ( the puzzy that came my way was crazy) late 40's early 50's sleeping with 25-35 year old's, now I'm 60 and there are times I wish I still knew a guy lol
This is crazy Derrick is an encyclopedia
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🏋️♂️ *Overview of Bodybuilder Evolution*
- Discussion on the transition in physique from 1970s bodybuilders to modern ones.
- Factors affecting physique evolution: genetics, nutrition, training, drug use, and injections.
- Questioning the balance of importance between evolution in training, nutrition, and drug use.
01:34 💊 *Ranking Factors: Drugs, Nutrition, Training*
- Drugs identified as the top factor influencing physique evolution.
- Nutrition considered second in importance, followed by training.
- Emphasis on the interconnectedness of these factors in achieving optimal results.
02:29 💉 *Impact of Perfect Diet and Training*
- Perfect diet and training with modern knowledge can potentially result in 50 to 100 pounds more muscle growth.
- Discussion on the role of growth hormone (GH) in acromegalic patients and its impact on cardiovascular health.
- Consideration of fluid retention and stress on the heart in GH usage.
03:40 💊 *Drug Use in the 70s*
- Surprising revelation about low drug use among 1970s top bodybuilders.
- Mention of dosages like 1 to 2 milligrams of testosterone a week, resembling TRT.
- Skepticism regarding the accuracy of reported dosages and the influence of social and competitive pressures.
05:04 💉 *Dosage Discrepancies and Outliers*
- Discrepancies in reported dosages among bodybuilders.
- Mention of outspoken individuals like Pete Grimkowski using extremely high dosages.
- Emphasis on the lack of reproducibility in achieving notable outcomes with reported dosages.
06:53 💉 *Dosing Precision and Lack of Awareness*
- Discussion on the imprecision and lack of awareness in reported dosages.
- Example of a bodybuilder claiming 50 grams of testosterone per week, raising doubts about feasibility.
- Highlighting the importance of precise dosing in hormone replacement therapy (HRT).
08:29 🔄 *Dramatic Change in Physique in Late 80s/Early 90s*
- Recognition of a significant change in physique in the late 80s and early 90s.
- Attribution of the change to the emergence of growth hormone and insulin abuse.
- Mention of dose escalation, availability of drugs, and underground lab preparations as contributing factors.
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My question is this: If the greats--Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, Sergio Oliva, etc.--competed w/o PEDS, would their muscularity have enough Wow Factor to make bodybuilding a compelling competition?
it is relative to the man you pose next to.
I would say yes. Those guys had the top less than 1% genetics for building muscle and were super responders when it came to PEDs. Sergio Oliva was on the Cuban weight lifting team before he escaped and came to the USA and they were literally feeding them beans and rice. Then he moved to Chicago and worked 10 hours a day before going to a grueling workout. He had to have been huge even before he could afford steroids. The one guy I wonder about is Serge Nubret. He was in an isolated area in France and would not have had access to anything to build his physique in the beginning and ate 4 pounds of horse meat a day and only lifted lighter weight for the pump and high volume but his physique was insane. Even Vince Gironda who was hard on everybody he trained and even called Arnold fat when he first met him was in awe of Serge when he came into the gym. I think Serge died at 72 from an aneurysm or stroke but he still looked amazing. They should have studied that guy in a lab.
Hell no
No...
Yes
I think its weird that new bodybuilders seem to think that you should have every single muscle as big as possible. I think that just makes you look like a mutated freak. I think the goal should be to sculpt the ideal look. Having lega so big you can barely walk around is not ideal in any way. And some muscles exist to support other muscles and shouldnt themselves be giant bulging masses. It just looks gross.
Don't forget all the people dropping dead in this sport. For people who are examples of physical fitness they sure aren't very healthy
I am amazed that a doctor is not calling out bodybuilding as the fringe, freak pastime it is nowadays. It is not anymore about looking strong, it is not about looking good, it is just about testing the limits of how big muscles can grow (mind you we are talking about just size and not what their are actually meant for by nature, i.e. strength, mobility, explosivity, etc) without dying from overdose. It should be regarded in the same light as people who strive to see how many tattoes they can fit in their body, including their eyeballs, etc. I'm talking mostly about the open category.
Yep, Peter you & Derek nailed it, the drugs or technology as some of them like to call it. HGH, multiple steroids, insulin, diuretics, etc.. Training has not changed that much. Dan Duchaine & Underground Steroid Handbook
GH change everything
It's called different drugs
Peter knows his bodybuilders wow
Drugs ,nutrition ,but mostly training every era of bodybuilding used different ways to lift in addition to that every single human even a clone is wholly unique.
The late Ric Drasin had Boyer Coe on his podcast. They discussed what they took and said the same thing. One or two dbol per day. I guess I can understand some of these old guys being worried about damaging their competitive legacies, but Ric didn’t even compete professionally and he seemed a pretty straight shooter. I don’t know why he would lie about whatever he took 50 years ago. And these guys are so consistent in their stories. Maybe they had to keep their doses low because they lacked the drugs to help offset the side effects. Sure, you can chug dbol by the bottle, but then you end up looking like Franco in 1981. Also, whenever these golden era guys talk about what they took, they don’t usually specify if it was during the offseason or precontest. If you look at Arnold between shows, a dbol per day doesn’t sound that crazy. Personally, I think the golden era guys are telling half the story. During the offseason, they probably did get by on a dbol per day and a shot per week, or maybe even nothing. Prepping for a contest, they probably took as much of whatever they had available as they could get away with, just like today.
Drugs, drugs, and drugs.
i liked this one
Back when I was powerlifting competitively it was normal for guys to take 300-600 mg Test enanthate weekly. 75 mg Trenbolone EOD (some maniacs made their own from mail order suppliers) 150 mg Deca EOD, and the two weeks before a meet no one counted how much Dianabol they ate. They just finished what they had. I’d say those were the moderate doses. Lots of bodybuilders in the gym were double that.
75mg tren EOD...jesus. I've only ever done test, but is 75mg tren as crazy as it sounds?
@@AUniqueHandleName444 yeah it is. Guys would look different in a week.
Drugs by far and all year round drugs which started in the 90s and nowadays alot of these guys even just social media body builders feel they have to stay big and jacked all year to keep their sponsors when actually maintaining an aesthetic body late in life is best done naturally which people have no knowledge or even willpower to do..people choose the easy route in life which is understandable because that's what is rewarded monetarily, etc..
Arnold's stated 18mg daily DBOL plus 200 weekly primo is not an implausible starting dose. I grew 10 lbs in a month on 20mg daily DBOL. But I also believe testimonies that say he started taking DBOL by the fist-full eventually.
I don't see any reason that retired body builders would admit to PED use but downplay the amount the used
Lou Ferrigno looked like a Greek God into his 40's. Then made a comeback at that age and went on whatever was around in the 90's to compete in the mass above aesthetics physique the judges rewarded. Ferrigno completely lost his Golden era physique and never looked as good again.
I think HGH changed everything. It seemed to happen in the early 1990’s around the time Lee Haney passed the torch to Dorian Yates and it’s only gotten worse each year since.
Absolutely 💯. Hgh and insulin.
This is it right here. No further debate is required.
I think that Steve Reeves had the most aesthetic physique of all-time.
I think that one reason why is that the guys who looked good and filled out their frames at lower weights can't get massive like the guys who look good at 280lbs. Look at Yates early in his career, despite being pretty heavy he never looks huge until he is 260lbs
Actually people in general look different back in the seventies not just bodybuilders. Just look at old pictures and people tended to be more slender. Also I noticed the NBA players compared to today's NBA players were a lot skinnier too
Everyone was thinner especially men. More processed and junk foods now. The "norm" has changed for sure.
Nba players used to think lifting weights would affect their shooting so they stayed away
@@onmywayup94 There are some modern players who still take that approach I don't think training is the explanation.
Roids are used a ton in the NBA now
@@michaelanthony4750 By some players but it's not like it's a prerequisite like other sports. NFL players are a lot bigger now too and they definitely used to use steroids back-in-the-day some basketball players probably used to use steroids too.
For Peter to idolize a sport that takes 30 years off your life expectancy and write a book called Outlive is just hilarious
Idolize is definitely an out of place term here. He clearly finds in interesting and is curious about the ideology and methodology behind bodybuilding.
I think any expert in a field would be highly intrigued by the extremes and athletic practices related to that field
Bodybuilders of earlier eras seem to have had normal lifespans.
Natural bodybuilding is completely
Healthy!
The change was with Yates who was first to go really crazy with insulin and GH. I think he is open about it.