There's a New OFFICIAL Melee Tier List (First one since 2015!)
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- PGstats has released the first official Super Smash Bros. Melee tier list since 2015! With roughly 6 years of meta development, lets take a look at the new list so you can see my thoughts on it. Will Fox remain at #1? Have my recent results impacted Jigglypuff's SSBM placement? Watch to find out!
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#Hungrybox #SmashBros #SmashMelee #SuperSmashBros #SmashBrosMelee #TierList
It’s way too early in melees life span to make a tier list smh
yes
Fr
I mean this game is 20 years old. Do they think it's in dog years! I mean 140 years would make sense but only 20. It's insane, they are really rushing things.
Ok boomer
@@kidneystones3578 Ngl they had us in the first half
Ganondorf is the bouncer of Melee. He keeps the unwanted out of the club, and because of this position, can never go into the club himself.
Ganon can go into the club if the stage is yoshi's story
I lead others to a treasure I cannot possess...
Young Link should be tied with Ganondorf, above Mario. I think Axe has proven you can actually do some shit with him, and he's become more popular in online play.
He's not a good character in general, but it's disappointing to see he hasn't moved up at all.
The fact that no one even really plays Mario should be justification enough.
The bubble boy, the bridesmaid, and the-
(I ran out of names)
@@nahor88 Even though Mario may be a bit better overall, I think you have a good take.
2 things I learned today:
1.bowser is the worst character in melee
2.gannondorf is a plumer
he's the best plumber out there.
plumber.
Yeah the Mario bros
Mario and Ganondorf
plumer
@@ultra64dx77 lmoa
The way the tier list has changed over time between 2015 and 2021 is intriguing. I don't have any relation to the Melee scene, but I sometimes dabble in spectators. I appreciate how far you've all come
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Ultimate is the biggest crossover in history, most balanced smash game, a major switch exclusive, and keeps smash relevant. Sorry you cant see over your bias/nostalgia
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Frost is right dude. \
It's sad that there has to be this war between Ultimate and Melee. You think there would be some sympathy between the two after 2020, but nope. Though, that's probably just me speculating this began when EVO removed Melee in 2019 because of a hater. I don't even know if this happened before the release of the game. Regardless, It's gonna be a never-ending war for at least another 7-8 years no matter what happens.
@@FrostDK98 yes dont do war guys we all play to smash, the only enemy is... Nintendude
What are you doing here Ness-Wednesday?
This tier list now makes a lot more sense than the last one, I’m surprised DK didn’t really rise though Rishi has put in some work
Ringler
Know who bum is?
I definitely agree, especially with bowser
And alyj
@@Korebi Yeah it's based off of 2019 because they told the people filling out the survey to assume that ICs can still wobble
It makes sense Pichu would move up. Mew2king's troll pocket character has a chain grab on fastfallers and decent combos. Having a chain grab definitely moves you up on the tier list.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Ganon is a lot higher than pichu
I think people also realized the other characters are just worse, chain grab or no chain grab.
Pichu's chain grab isn't that good except for on FD. Pichu went higher on the tier list not because of his chain grab or combo game but because of his speed; his dash is really fast, he jumps really quickly (low jump squat) and has a fast nair that knocks down decently early. Movement options are just becoming more and more necessary in order to compete, and characters like Zelda and Ness are just really, really slow.
My favorite smash character tied with dr mario and luigi has respect
I love pichu my boy should've been 22 out of 26 in the first melee teir list
Love playing pichu. Hes my boy, even if not main. Still bad but he got sauce
NOT LAST KIRBY GANG ON THE RISE!!!! WATCH OUT, BY 2100 KIRBY WILL BE MID TIER!
lmfao
AND BY 2200 HE WILL BE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME!
The year is 21XX. Everyone plays Kirby at TAS levels of precision. Because of this, the winner of a match depends solely on port priority. The RPS metagame has evolved to ridiculous levels due to it being the only remaining factor to decide Kirbycide.
Some days I wonder if this guy memorized the 20XX meme
@@kimberreyes1849 :O
"Kirby with Falco's lasers go to THIS tier."
>>Forgets he put a clip on his screen, blocking his mouse cursor.
Wow 👏
I think about C or B tier was what he was pointing at, shame we didn't see.
So, the first Melee tier list I've seen while it's new, I gotta thank EMPLemon for introducing me to you and you for introducing me to more competitive Smash and giving me to inspiration to try to get better at the game
Same!! EMP was my introduction into competitive smash as well, both melee and ultimate by extension
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Ultimate's my preferred game though, I probably should've clarified this more but I'm more of a viewer for Melee, and I practice to play with Ultimate
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier lmao
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier i agree melee is better but insulting the game he plays isn't gonna do anything. that being said you should download slippi and at least try melee since it's pretty fun even if you're an ultimate player
@@dad4436 everybody is just wanting to know when the day will come where online ultimate isn't shitty
Bowser being last hurts man
So does kirby :(
Well hey at least he is good in Ultimate.
silly bowser tiers are for queers
@@brandonklopfenstein1633 that's why i respect tier lists
Edit:holy creampuff i did not expect that other people would like this shitty comment
Just watch dj beet milk man again and you’ll feel better lol
My girl Samus dropping like 3 tiers hurts my soul.
Yeah it sucks, but there aren’t many top Samus players at the moment so it makes sense.
Samus been going down ever since plup dropped her, now that hugs is gone too. Doesn’t look to good that’s all I’ll say
Duck isn’t playing much either very unfort for the character
Plup punchin air rn
A lot of the old Samus guard seemed to have unfortunately fallen off, but newer active players like MorseCode are putting in the work and showing that there’s more from the character that can be developed further, particularly with the way he uses bombs.
I just want to say that for Armada to be so dominant for so long with Peach is wild. I was hoping Axe would go on a tear after he won Summit and have a run like Armada, where he took an unpopular, lower-tier character (much like mang0 did with Puff) and really opened up the game again.
You're the reason people think puff is rated S instead of A.
wasn't it Mango that got everyone hype about Puff and Hbox just rode that train?
@@aclonymous Mang0 built the train Hbox put a rocket on it
I really respect your more in-depth take on what you think of Puff’s placing. Your explanation was good IMO.
Ganondorf's rise through the years does put a smile on my face.
imo gannon gets trashed on by the high tier charecters but trashes the low tier charecters
@@mnoypoiuyt65r4w8 Except for pichu
I don’t play melee but this tier list seems accurate from my minimal knowledge
hello kabbage
>:)
Same here. Ultimate is def the more definitive smash game to me because it’s much more balanced overall
@@glitchym1017 that would be P+ actually
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Ultimate isnt perfect but it certainly isn't the devil spawn you claim it is. Melee has some of the worst game design period with the ledge and dashback mechanics, but it's still tons of fun. Both are great, just Melee is more fun and Ultimate is more thought through.
the fact that tier lists for a 20 year old game are still being updated just goes to show how much untapped potential some of these characters still have
@@lol-ih1tl you don't need a tier lost to know who the best character is
@@lol-ih1tl not necessarily, if it's considerably easier to win with one character and also more fun to play that character for an individual, then it would make sense for them to play that character over others.
@@lol-ih1tl Not true, tier lists are just a reflection of the meta. You're looking at it in the opposite way.
@@isetmfriendsofire They do change but it's clear quickly who the good characters are. The top 5 in melee has been pretty stable for a long time
3:10 He points to a tier with his mouse but it's covered by the clip :(
we will never know...
Bring back PPMD
Get this man some dirt, he be lookin to clean
Too* (Lol)
@@spwindy7277 2*
Windy I noticed that but I’m TOO lazy to fix it lol
Too
"The fact Zain has been able to win regionals with Roy, I think could even push him up to C-tier" - guy who 4-stocked someone with Ness in a regional Grand final set
Doc is now the most balanced character on the tier list now
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
@@oppositecatchyghost8025, I couldn't agree more
Thanos:perfectly balanced :)
A dose of pain and bad recovery. Perfectely balanced.
@@antoinemayrand7348, He has very thing good except recovery, what you said was perfect
Ganon is the living proof that being strong doesn’t mean being good. He is, as Hbox said it, “The line” that separates the two groups of melee characters.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier nah there trash
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Roy is undeniably garbage. You're basically arguing Young Link should be top 10 because Axe plays Young Link well. Also I really don't think people are gonna be pushing the Ganon meta any farther than Kage and n0ne have at this point. Kage is the only Ganon main in top 100, and he's barely even there. Even with the ICs meta being severely underdeveloped without wobbling there's still several in top 100.
I'm so happy of the love that luigi is getting since I am a luigi main, and I can't wait to push this character even farther :)
I love how whenever a Luigi messes someone up they aren’t mad, they either laugh or are annoyed
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Nah Falco is
Same!!! I really think he has true potential and I think one day he will be B+
@@talkgomilk nah the character sucks and nobody’s pushing him
@@davidolinger3948 It's true :0
It's 20XX. You've hired a plumber to fix your toilet. Ganondorf shows up
From my smash ultimate knowledge this melee tier list looks great
>__
When the puff is sus 😳
@@user-ti6us2br4x Funk you
@@patriciadecant184 hey man.. Not my fault that their name ia "SussPuff"
its 2025 and Capt Falcon is top 5 melee due to S2J Showing us that one knee is all it takes to change the pace of a game
Pretty sure Wizzribe has won more.
Also, he's 6th, but I get you. 🙂
@@Delightfully_Bitchy it was a joke about 2025 not now you buffoon
@@pierreaoun9600 Heh, so it is. That's what I get for being so pedantic, huh?
@@Delightfully_Bitchy pretty sure s2js recent showings have placed him above wizzy, but what do i care im a none fan
I remember going from 64 kirby to melee... No wonder I hated melee
RIP Samus. She just needs the right few people to pick her up and really explore her options. She has a lot of frame tight tech, but most the people capable of it currently are playing higher tier characters.
Sadly, I think there's a reason for that.
Ik this comment is old af but there was a recent august 30th practice tournament with plup samus vs hbox puff in the finals that were some great sets, samus is a damn tank lol, lived to 200% several times and plup made her look way better than I expected. She's super heavy without being anywhere near as slow as bowser, dk or ganon, he was zooming in those games
@@LiveTwinReaction That TMT online tourney?
I watched some of Plup's sets from that. Always wonder how much more explosive he would be if he never switched mains.
There was also a set where Morsecode gave Hbox a hard time.
Samus has a really bad matchup against Sheik which holds her back a lot in a meta where there are 3 Sheiks in the top 10 (Jmook, Plup, and Leffen). She's also not as good against spacies as you'd think either, especially Fox, so she tends to struggle in the modern metagame.
I still think MewTwo has room to move up given the right player, he has a ton of really good shit and I think playing around his tail hurtbox as a bait tool with how good his movement is he could be a punish machine.
It's a good list. Honestly, the fall of Falco makes sense too. He lacks the representation he had back when the 12th tier list came out. Meanwhile, Marth and Puff just plain looked amazing during the last few years. If a bit more Falcos start putting in more work I'm sure he'll rise again.
PPMD's health condition definitely hurt the Falco representation along with many people choosing fox over flaco so it makes sense he fell. Kinda sad though I think Falco has so much untapped potential and he's definitely one of the most fun characters to watch.
I was expecting Kirby in s-tier
He’s bad I’m pretty sure but I don’t know 100%
You must thinking of Smash 64
@@kwaku7226 Lol
It was sarcasm I know Kirby sucks
@@homeschooledkevin3333 Oh... my b
"Falcon could go above sheik maybe in the future"
jmook: And I took that personally
Yo I just watched an hour and 15 minute video about you and your impact on the melee scene, and although I only started in brawl, and never got to play melee, I just wanna say, I’m a fan
emplemon?
2019: 20th anniversary of Super Smash Bros.
...and now...
2021: 20th anniversary of Super Smash Bros Melee!
I’d agree with Hbox. Falco edging out Puff makes more sense with his kit and pressure game. Captain Falcon having the potential to perhaps take 5 someday? That’s amazing.
It’s with wobbling, it says it right there at the start of the article
One day we'll be watching updated Melee tier lists on our Mars bases.
The years is 20xx. Spacetubers are making new melee tier lists with TAS levels of perfection. The only undecided point if the rank of Jigglypuff, as that is solely dependent on port priority. Puff matches are therefore decided by Rock Paper Scissors, with the loser immediately conceding the match. Everyone else is playing full Melee matches and ending their careers after 5 years to not increase risk of arthritis.
@@lagg1e The year is 20xx, space pirates scour the galaxy searching for CRT TVs, which have become almost non-existant, since no one remembers how to make them. Pro players publish biased tier lists in exchange for these rare TVs. Completely unrelated, bowser has risen to A tier and most high profile players agree he has an amazing matchup spread against spacies and marth.
Nice it's been a good minute
I’d drop Puff into an A+ tier with Sheik and Captain Falcon. I’d put Peach in her own tier at A-.
I’d move Yoshi up a bit, but otherwise a fine tier list.
Dude puff is s tier no doubt. Her floaty nature and nair combos are a hellish force. Plus rest makes her a literal time bomb if she gets in the right position. Very dangerous
Game and watch becomes B+ or A tier with L cancels and a better shield unironically
Surprised to see puff above falco. I think the majority of people would agree that falco is above puff now.
Can’t believe they left wolf off of the tier list 😪
He didnt exist in Meelee
@@Cobalt957 was joke
Congratulations Kirby! You are no longer the worst character in Melee!
(This tier list was made with IC's having wobbling.)
Puff 3rd is nice.
Pichu not bottom 3 is nice.
BOWSER BEING DOODOO IS GREAT!
I love super smash bros melee so many childhood memories.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier no unfortunately I don't I play pubg mobile now.
Aged like fine wine
The meta evolves when you as players evolve (which is always exciting, please never get comfortable in just one character)
I played this game when it very first came out when I was 13 and I have to say it's interesting how the tier list pretty much lines up with how I felt about the characters pretty much from the get go. Fox was obviously the best character, as well as Marth, Shiek, C Falcon, and Bowser and Kirby obviously sucked. I remember thinking that Puff had to be good with sing and rest but never actually got good with her or knew anybody who was so I never thought much of her.
Kirby not being last is so weird to me, I feel like I've actually lost more than I've gained, being a Kirby main
If it makes you feel better; SOMEBODY had to be putting good work out there for him to rise. Maybe it was you. 🙂
@@Delightfully_Bitchy It definitely wasn't lmao, but I appreciate the sentiment
@@Delightfully_Bitchy I think it had more to do with Bowser being worse than Kirby doing any better lol.
the only reason is that when kirby eats bowser, he can flamecancel and bowser cannot :D
@@picumtg5631 I think it's more to do with the fact that Bowser's entire moveset is considered worse than Kirby's entire moveset.
I think pichus size and movement could wake her do well with a very patient and movement focused player. Realistically, she's hard to hit and could very easily punish mistakes with a few percent at a time. Small chips at a time
“Anybody below ganon on this tier list is not a top 8 worthy character” - yup, completely agree. This was my problem with melee all these years, only half the cast is viable in high level play.
Sure, but that's also the case in literally every Smash game. Everyone's mains in both PGRU and MPGR contain a little over half the cast of their respective games.
@@MisterSwagify except the fact that the later games in the franchise have a higher cast, which allows for representation and a diverse cast. Plus, smash 4 and ultimate have balance patches
The background music is so soothing.
I think people drastically over estimate how well pika does versus marth because if you ask any marth player they will tell you that pika loses it's just axe has played it for over a decade and he's the only pikachu
I disagree, if only because you could also ask the other Pika mains and they’d generally say they win vs Marth, or at least feel comfortable in the matchup. It varies per person I think, which is indicative that Pikachu probably wins, but only by a small margin. Like 6-4 at most, probably 5.5-4.5 realistically
Would be kind of interesting seeing an SSBM 1.03 patch, where they slightly nerf the A's & S's, and buff the D's & F's
Wow the images used for the characters look sick, Bowser may be the worst but he sure does know how to look cool
I'm glad Yoshi is still the Dark horse he is, mained him in melee
Largely due to the efforts of one player! Amsa is amazing
The tier list is getting much closer to its final form I think
The day Marth is at the top is the day I die happy
@@joshiffy It's looking like it now that Zain is dominating most of the online tournaments nowadays.
@@echoingthroughthefloorz1869 trueee, watching Zain play marth and Roy is incredibly fun
That's just how the nature of time goes... Everything is getting closer to its final form.
1:58 for the tier list
Thank you for the time save
Hbox when talking about tierlists: Calm
Hbox when talking about peanut: "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Yeah I think it's kinda weird for pichu to be ahead of ness.
My guess as to why Marth struggles with Pikachu on a fundamental level is because Pikachu is not only fast, but small as well, meaning that it's harder for Marth to get a hit in on Pikachu. It's like trying to swat a fly, except the fly can combo for days.
I think saying Marth “struggles” is an overstatement, it’s definitely Marth favored. Axe is just a god
Nah, I think we’ll see Zain destroy pikachu. He himself says that he struggled so much purely because of matchup knowledge (not in a way that undermined Axe though cause he is sick). If Zain can crack the fox meta, pikachu is just a minor thing, I think more importantly he should focus on the Sheik right now since I reckon a new age of Sheik secondaries is coming.
(I say Zain specifically cause it’s agreed Marth pikachu is a bad matchup for pikachu, but Zain is the famous example of Marth struggling with pika.)
After all these years, luigi has finally started pushing up like he should be
Wow. I saw you in a bunch of compilations not too long ago. Didn't even know you had a channel, now that's p epic
Pichu is even less explored than Ness. Ness at least has a following. Pichu has less usage than Doc- which is pathetic. I ran the discord for Pichu till now- there are still only 6 mains. 2 active.
Still would love too play melee.💕
Considering your results in the recent years i think Puff placed third is acceptable, of course we'll need to see how the meta changes and the representatives each character has (i think if someone ever comes close to your results then Puff can be placed in S tier, if not then Jiggy'll be back at the 4th or 5th spot).
Glad CaptainPretzle got some honorable mentions. As a fellow Kirby main, I think he has way more potential than people give him credit for. Also, I’m still inclined to say Sheik is still S tier if Spark is anything to go by.
Also, nice video! Loving how you have examples for most characters, even more obscure mains like Link. Loving it.
Bowser:worst
Me:Ouch
Melee is that one game that some people can't get enough of, and that's why it's aged so perfectly well throughout the years. #JigglypuffSTier
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Agreed.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier dumb reason.
Zelda has hands down the best move in the game.
I personally think tier lists should be based on technical data since that better reflects their potential than high tier players choosing to main them. I understand that sometimes players find ways to use characters that were unexpected by the developers and by any data found by miners and that's a big driving force in rebalancing or bug fixing, but it feels more honest imo.
everytime i play on slippi, i cant play a full match until like every 45 minutes and i just can't get better because there are so many people that just quit out as soon as the game starts.
Probably your connection
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier Ultimate players don't even bother playing melee so your point is invalid lol.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier rent free
Slippi kids are wack. Try hitting up a few Discord servers or just play at your locals whenever they start back up again. People are a lot nicer outside of unranked.
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier ok now shut up, first you trash talk a game you probably didn't even play, then you say you literally play only melee, it took me 2 secs to find that you actually play lot worse games than Ultimate, finally before you say "hE Is jUSt SomE uLT.Rash pLayEr" but I actually play melee on slippy and people like you are the people that make us the actual chill players look like toxic garbage people
Does triple r still play? I thought you'd bring him up when talking about kirby, I think he showed how far you can take kirby in terms of the tournament scene.
Don't think he's played in years
Retired around 2017.
he's retired. Captain pretzel is a currently active kirby main
What was that background music though? Someone please tell me I love it
so glad to see you making quality content
This is a certified "Puff not top 3 anymore" moment
Armada and Leffen would disagree with this list.
Never played melee, just gotta say though
Bowser’s too high
seeing a green arrow next to kirby makes me happy
2:44 - "Yoshi!"
Can't decide whether hungrybox saying Jigglypuff is tied for fourth with a shiek while beind the number one player in the world with puff humble or a fkex
He is no longer the number one.
Zain is.
Melee is more balanced than one may initially think with all of the fox 20xx memes out there. Axe, a Pikachu main, won a supermajor back in 2019 before quarantined started for instance.
@@jsweeney7359 what? I thought he *only* won summit. Very impressive, but not a supermajor
@@kkmac7247 I would consider summit a supermajor personally but you could argue that it isn't one due to how they do pools or whatever
damn thats crazy
YOU GOT YOUR OWN CHANNEL OMG
Mario Bros. Plumbing Co., featuring Ganondorf Mario
It always pains me of the what if G&W had been complete. :(
Yep, G&W is one of my favourite characters in melee so it's always sad to think how good he could've been if he wasn't incomplete
for dudes who dont want to look at the video:
S: Fox, Marth, Jigglypuff, Falco
A: Sheik, Captain Falcon, Peach
B+: Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Yoshi, Samus
B-: Luigi, Dr. Mario
C+: Ganondorf, Mario
C-: Donkey Kong, Young Link, Link, Mr. Game & Watch
D: Mewtwo, Roy, Pikachu, Ness, Zelda
F: Kirby, Bowser
id actually put falco as #3 and #4 puff above shiek in A tier, with only fox and marth in S tier. for the same reasons you think puff doesnt belong in S tier, i believe people have been playing the matchup wrong but are starting to learn DI on falcos combos/lasers and theyre becoming less and less lethal over time.
"Top 100 melee players. (Plus Armada)"
😂😂😂
I like most of the character’s placing on the new Tier List, but I just can’t see Falco in 4th and Roy dropping even after Zain’s results with him
Look like you haven’t slept in a week, hope your doing all right brother.
Swap falco and puff and the list is basically perfect
Wow! Ryobeat is an old friend of mine! Hope hes doing well man. Love to see him doing big things as always
Ryobeat is doing well actually, he's @ryobeat on twitter now if you wish to see what he's doing
I'd like to think that captian pretzel alone is enough reason for kirby to be better than bowser.
Also, ８ ｆｒａｍｅ ｊｕｍｐｓｑｕａｔ
I find it ironic that Hbox was talking about Roy as if he rose in rank, when he actually dropped
Tbh Zain stopped Roy from falling further
This survey was before zain's success
this probably won't make sense to anyone but here goes ig. I've been having a rough time lately and smash has actually help me, with smash being my escape, and with me diving into the community it would make sense that I'd find you eventually. I love your content and for some reason I started getting tarry eyes when I heard you start this video, because it was evident that you were talking about something you love and are passionate about. that love and passion is something missing in my life at the moment, but I feel a bit better every time I watch your videos and streams, I feel part of a community for once. so I thank you hungrybox, for giving me an escape and making me feel good about myself again, even for the relatively short time your videos are. and thank you for making the wholesome content that really brings the smash community some good light for once, and above all, I thank you for pushing through everything, because it makes me feel like I can too.
One thing to note is this tier list assumes wobbling is legal
@Bandit Keith Duval Lisier that ics would be even lower had the wobbling ban been considered when they were making this as this ranking was made pre-ban
Why does every smash youtuber look like they have major depression? I love these guys. Alpharad, Captain Kidd, The Underdogs, and hungrybox here to a slightly lesser degree.
In the future, Ness will be A tier. I just don't think anyone has him figured out yet.
Lol no, ness in melee sucks
Hes slow and has terrible recovery. His frame data is meh. His kill moves are pretty jank. The glitches he can have are insanely hard to pull off in a real match. His range is terrible (both grab and attack). His projectiles are bad.
@@lambchu6459 thanks
Nah mate, one day there's gonna be someone who grinds dafuq out of the jacket glitch and destroys everybody, and tournaments will be over run by Ness players mate!!!
@@lambchu6459 His frame data is actually pretty good, and his aerials have decent range. Everything else you’ve said stands though.
How far Bowser has risen since then
I would be interested in seeing someone defy the odds and get in top 8 in a tournament as melee mario. I think he has some potential and has gotten very close to getting top 8 before, so i believe mario still has potential!
if yoshi can do it then mario probably too