Hi Woody, As an owner of Yamaha Genos 1 and also a Korg PA5X - I totally agree with your review and find it very fair. I don't have the Genos 2 since there didn't appear much change from Genos 1 and decided to have a change and buy the Korg. Both instruments are superb. My Genos 1 is super useful and easy to use live when I'm performing and I have become accustomed to it's way of working. I'm waiting for Genos 3 before coughing up anymore dough....only another 5 or 6 years to wait.....maybe that one will include AI and introduce a touch of randomisation to reduce that sense of repetitiveness and looping (that they all have🤣)
I also use Band In A Box, which is great for working out songs and so forth, but isn't really designed as a gigging platform. I'm sure you could use it as such, but that really wasn't what it was designed for. Now, if you're not familiar with Band In A Box, it's software for accompaniment generation. It will produce up to five instruments, drums, bass, guitar, piano, and strings are ostensibly the instruments, although they are changed. You input the chord progression for the song, so it's not live or real time) and then select a style you want. It generates the backing tracks. Band in a Box DOES produce randomness. Because it knows the length of the chord ahead of time, depending on how the style is written, you may find that you'll have a slightly different style for a one bar, two bar, four bar or even more. So, if you have a chord that only plays for one bar, you may have a different style pattern than a chord that plays for two bars. Furthermore, again, depending on how the style is written, you may have several one bar, several two bar, and several four bar patterns available, and depending on the weighting of each pattern, you may find yourself getting a slightly different, randomized, pattern each time you generate the backing.
That would put an extra 15-20 lbs on it that I don't think most people would like. It's nice for it to be more portable. The plastic is plenty solid IMO. But I agree it is way overpriced; they did not improve it enough over the original Genos...
Good comparison. Neither is perfect. I went with the Korg Pa5x and am very happy with my choice. The build quality and the seamless sound transition feature is what pushed me into the Korg. I could not believe that the Genos2 did not have smooth sound transitions. I am blown away by what I can do with the Korg in terms of creating custom keyboard sets, sounds, samples and styles. No shortage of new things to learn on it. You mention some having issues with Pa5x OS. I have never had a problem.
One other thing I'll add for someone considering the Pa5x is the SongBook in the Korg is the "registrations" similar to Genos. You can save a style, keyboard sets, tempo, pads, etc here for specific songs, then create set lists of tunes you intent to perform so it's ready to go. In addition, Korg gives you 11 "favorite" buttons across the right to save your favorite keyboard sets which can be called up at any time during any tune.
I bought the Yamaha DGX-670 for the acoustic piano sound and weighted 88 and the easy 16/44.1 internal recording to a USB drive. The DGX-670 piano is the best sounding I have heard in 40 years of Dpianos. The arranger is a bonus, and it has a style creator too, so you can create your own style and never get bored. There is only a headphone out, but it is not bad driving it with amp//speaker. For an arranger I use the Roland E-A7, mainly because I always create my own styles specifically for the songs I compose. MIDI out is very important so I can MIDI out the 8 track styles to other synths and instruments.
congrats on the DGX, yeah, pianos are really great, especially when you jump into the piano room mode. interesting to read you are creating own styles on the roland, well done!
For me, I discovered Registration Memory back in my young age when I learned to play music with Yamaha Electone organ series. So I’m a fan and for me, a 1-button touch to set the entire keyboard is a must have! So, Long life to Yamaha Genos2, 3, 4 and 5 😜
Hello from Denmark, I have been a keyboard player for 28 years and I have tryed the Genos 2 and the Korg together for 2.month, The Genos was easy to use. (I have an old Tyros 4) the Korg was complicated and with only a few good sounds from rhe factory, you had to make your Owen sounds, to difficult. Today my setup is: keeping my old Tyros 4 and the cheapest keyboard I ever had in my carrier : the Yamaha DGX 670, it is a fantastic instrument especially for dinner music, 88 fully weighted keys and built in keyboard. The Genos are my winner but a high price for a plastic keyboard.
We make many decisions with our wallets. As a Korg owner for all of my keyboards over the years, starting with the iX300, I would choose the PA5X (if I had the money, I don't). I really like the DGX-670, but I've got a couple of changes I'd like to make to it, although the changes I would like would probably double the price of it. For the DGX-680, I'd like to see: 1. The Stand and Pedal unit included in the price 2. Speaker system from the HS-4 3. The rear panel from the PSR EW425 and then add a standard 5-pin DIN MIDI In/Out ports. 4. A 7" display 800x480 resolution. 5. At least two Intros, two endings, and two fills and a break. I really would like to see three of each. 6. More generic styles and not song-specific. 7.Double the number of styles, this only has 263 styles, it should have over 500. If they did that with the -680, that would be a keyboard I would buy.
The DGX-670 has 3 intros and 3 endings. It also has 4 fills as each variation has its own bridge, and it does have a break. The 3 intros and 3 endings are not accessible by physical buttons (like in the PSR SX series), but via menus. You can download additional styles, and the DGX-670 supports the more advanced format SFF2 (GE), which is found in the PSR-SX series (the PSR-E series supports only SFF1 format). Even though Yamaha's MusicSoft website does not include the DGX-670 in their list of arranger keyboards, the styles you can purchase from them will work, although not as good as in the supported series, such as PSR-SX, due to the relatively limited number of voices.
@@Instrumental-Covers Thank you for the reply. As to the Intro and Endings, if you can not get to them at the start or ending of a song from the panel, to me, they're useless. As to the styles, I can't find anything that says how many styles I can download and install. With a memory of only 20MB, I could see where that would get used up really quickly. As such, my initial comment stands, but thank you for the information.
@@GaryMCurran You are welcome. I think what you want for the intros and endings is the physical buttons like in the PSR-SX, because the instrument does have 3 of each. I can provide you with an idea of the number of styles you can install in the built-in memory: a pretty complex style such as the one found in Genos is about 60 KB. Assuming an average style size of 50 KB, you can install 20MB/50KB = 20,000 KB/50 KB = 400 additional styles. Remember that styles are not audio files, just the instructions, so with a modest memory you can install a very large number of styles. But the DGX-680 you describe would be a welcome addition.
@@Instrumental-Covers Yes, What I am looking for are the buttons on the panel. Since I mostly play live, I want to be able to do things 'on the fly', and having three buttons for each is the best way to go. I took a quick glance through the User's Manual and the Reference Manual and I couldn't find anything about additional files I agree that 20MB would provide for a substantial number of additional styles, but are they on a User Page for styles? How much of that 20 meg is going to be available if you're using it for song sequencing? If we're going to upgrade the upcoming -680, I just think it's easier to have all of these styles and such already loaded. My two cents.
@@GaryMCurran My understanding is that the 20 MB are for the styles, and for song sequencing you have 1MB of internal memory, with 500 records available. So, you have memory for at least 400 additional styles and 500 songs. I think the DGX-670 is the most advanced digital piano ensemble on the market at its price point. The Korg XE20, Roland FP-E50 and Casio PX-S3100 are significantly below in terms of arranger capabilities. For example, the Korg XE20 has the styles found in the arranger Korg PA60, which I owned when it came out around 2000... so the Korg XE20 has the old tone generator and arranger engine from a machine that is almost 25 years old. When I played the XE20 in stores, I could see the names of the styles were the same my old Korg PA60 had. Not to mention that the XE20 Italian sample doesn't have the same quality of the CFX Concert Grand sample in the DGX-670. If Korg put in the XE21 (successor of current XE20) the arranger engine of their current PA series (let's say, the PA1000), a good speaker system (which the XE20 doesn't have), a nice large touch screen instead of the tiny old-school LCD screen, then Yamaha would probably be forced to upgrade their DGX-670. Otherwise, I think the upgrades will be more modest, as they have no incentive to produce a super machine for under $1,000 when the competition is so far behind.
Hi Woody! It was very exciting to watch this video! If one is choosing between these two top-drawer instruments from the two top manufacturers in the business, then one is in for a real treat! The thing that surprised me though is what you said about the synths/pads being equally good on either. I would have expected the Korg to have the upper hand here. Yamaha having superior acoustic instruments isn’t a surprise though as it has been this way for years. However, the thing that REALLY took me by surprise - and I kind of anticipated something like these, given that the ‘snow white’ has been in the picture frame for most of the video - is when you introduced the DGX-670! You put things in real perspective with that one and it isn’t every reviewer would do. In fact, you’re just about the only person whom I can imagine actually doing it!! Obviously, the DGX won’t be as advanced as any of those but in the right hands, it will be ‘almost there’, at a fraction of the price and with, IMHO, the looks to light up the room! One might even look at it as a slap in the face to both the Genos 2 and PA5X by the ‘little’ DGX-670!! The problem with the DGX-670 for me is the size. I simply do not have the space for a keyboard of this size and from what I’ve gathered, it isn’t exactly feather-light either which, I guess, is a consequence of it being made so well and having a really good set of speakers. I wish Yamaha would make a smaller, 73/76 key version with the same GHS action like they did with the P-125/121 digital pianos that you had prior to the DGX. I think the manufacturers are underestimating the importance of models with fewer keys and integrated speakers. As prices of everything are going up for us here in Europe, the demand for smaller and cheaper accommodation will become greater and so, a smaller instrument becomes more desirable than a full-size 88-key one. You can still have everything - hammer action and built-in speakers, just in a slightly more manageable package. Not all of us want to play Chopin (even if that might be the ultimate achievement)! I am rambling, sorry about that! Anyway, a great video - informative and entertaining as always - and with a point! Thank you, Woody! Cheers!
Another great video Woody, and fantastic playing, really enjoying your playing. I have both these great keyboards and I like them both equally, and as you say both have their strengths in different areas over the other. I just wanted to mention one thing, about the extra styles, Korg also has these in the form of Bonusware on their site and its well over 1000 styles, all made by Korg engineers and they are absolutely fabulous, even from the early ones they made, they all play very well on the Pa5x. That DGX you have sounds beautiful too and looks very stylish :)
well, that is the ultimate solution to a tricky decision, buy both! congrats and I know you are having a lot of fun. Thank you so much for bringing the extra Korg styles to our attention.
Couple of things to add. I own both keyboards. I agree that sound editing capabilities are limited at Genos2 BUT the Korg Pa5X has the full capabilities of a high end Synth workstation plus a fully implemented sampler. Not at all pretty basic sound editing as you said. And there is also a huge difference of the style capabilities! Here also Korg has the much more elaborate concept, with the opportunity to have completely different style variations for different chord types like major, minor, diminished etc. Yamaha derives ALL variations from one basic style played with a major 9 chord. Also Yamaha is much more limited in style editing than the Korg. I don't kknow if you took a look at the documentation? Yamaha 300 pages vs more than 2300 pages for Korg. Lots of the pages dedicated to sound and style programming at Korg side. So I totally disagree to your opinion that sound and styles are comparable. For the Yamaha registrations there is NO way for replacing them with the Korg songbook as you assumed because of the very few aspects that can be saved in the Pa5X songbook compared to the Genos2 registrations. The missing seamless sound transistion on the Genos is a shame, because Yamaha knows how to do seamless sound switching in the Montage/Modx with the same AWM2/FM sound engines. The overall concept and architecture of the Korg is outdated. It is extremely hard to use and has just a renovated architecture compared to the predecessors instead of real innovation. The more modern instrument and ways easier to learn and use is the Yamaha. Overall in my opinion the Yamaha is the keyboards for players whereas the Korg is the one for Creators. PS: I think the main focus group for both keyboards are entertainers and believe me there is absolutely nothing which the audience hates more than "a creative new interpretation" of a known title. So title specific styles are a core feature for the target audience of the keyboards.
brilliant points, thanks for adding your insights to the conversation. strangely, i did explore the sound editing capabilities of the Pa and they were nowhere near that of a synth workstation... but it was a while ago, and perhaps i didn't even reach the right page.
Most of the PA5X are specific styles and many of them are more oriented to contemporary music while Genos is more focused on that kind of music that elder people like. Although in fact the woodwinds and other acoustic in Genos 2 sounds better, PA5X is like a limitless customizable keyboard for a more professional or enthusiastic use. Caming from TYROS4 during 10 years, I'm very happy with my PA5X. But having the 2 wouldn't be a bad idea...
Did the PA5X get updated? Because I remember reading the manual when it came out to see if any interesting synthesis capabilities were in there.. and didn’t see anything close to a synth workstation
@@WagooYou probably missed something. PA5X_Muser_Manual_v12_E.pdf pages 911 through 1048 + 1469 through 1576. Even more capable than Yamaha's AWM2 and fully editable. I am not interested in discussing whether aditional sound engines would makes sense or not as long as it is possible to program almost every sound based what Korg built in.
I agree with your conclusion. I also think that it is crazy that the Genos can't be had with an 88-key weighted keyboard, even as an option. That said, if I was buying a flagshjip arranger, then I'd have to go with the Genos, just because it sounds bette and more realistic to me then the Korg.
I've used Yamaha arranger keyboards for many years and what I liked most was the directness of the system. The downside is that I could not create custom sounds , styles etc. to my liking. Since last years I am using Korg arrangers which are way more flexible in that respect. It was quite a steep learning curve but it opened a world of new possibilities for me. Furthermore, Korg keyboards have far better sounding drawbars than Yamaha arranger keyboards. And btw I never had any problems with the OS of the Korg yet. The Genos actually froze once during a performance. In my opinion the Korg is overall more suitable for live performances than the Yamaha.
I tried the Pa5X. 3 themes There is nothing wrong with it but it is always a matter of taste. I replaced my Genos with Genos 2 and WOW every day I enjoy the great sounds in the more orchestral and Bigband genre. The Genos was already the top in that genre for me! The Genos 2 is pure class and sounds masterfully better than the Genos 1. I also think the Pa5x is very good in terms of quality but I am not blown away by it as I am by the Genos 2.
Great comparison, thanks a lot, Woody! Formerly, I owened the Yamaha PSR-3000, now have the PSR-S970. I am very much used to the Yamaha operating philosophy. Thus, I would go for Yamaha again when buying a new keboard sometime.
Hi Woody. I am following your work quite some long and really appreciate how you do it. Eventually, this is a really good comparison. I personally prefer a Genous sound, especially in sound quality. But, did you have a chance to take a look at one serious keyboard arranger, KETRON EVENT? Your point of view will be outstanding! Is it possible to have a battle between these three?
Genos2 would be a no-brainer for anyone accustomed to Yamaha arrangers (which is, just about everyone playing arrangers the last 30+ years), but not at 4K+ euros. I could never convince myself to buy a plastic keyboard for 4K.
Seen a lot of positivity about the DGX, although is it similar in sound quality to the sx600 ? The genos and pa5x certainly "sound" like a few grands worth! Loving those EP's.
If you are a past Korg owner you stick with Korg or vice versus with Yamaha due to the sets that you already have, as a Korg user it's hard to switch to a Yamaha although I have the PSR-a5000 also and the KORG pa5x, the complaints on the 5x is that previous sets that are a mix mash of different sets will sometimes get you in trouble because they are not paid and not 100 percent optimized, so the complaints are from users that have the free sets and not the paid sets that are more refined and better working, I love the 5X and sold the 4 because there is a big difference as opposed to Genos 1 and 2 which most user would not upgrade. Either instruments are great and players should not get swayed into opinions of others if you are a new user of these keyboards my 2 cents. :)
Is Yamaha doing a similar thing as the Tyros? We've seen five of them before the Genos came out, and is fortunately compatible with Tyros media. For some reason the Korg reminds me of a Motif or a DX7...how heavy is it? The winner is there all along...sitting silently on the couch! But for real, it seems like the Genos, the Clavinova series, PSRs and the DGX shares a similar core engine, just packaged differently...
the pa is heavy, like 15kg, which I appreciate that solidity and sturdiness in a studio keyboard! and even if your gigging, you probably take it in the car so weight no matter...? i agree with your last comment, they all share very similar DNA
@@WoodyPianoShack The weight isn't actually that bad. Can't just put it in the usual gig bag. For the commuting gigger that can be a bit more hassle, but hey, it should survive a few knocks here and there...
Your comparison is exeptional good, it covers all aspects, and it is just to the point! I have seen many comparisons, but this is the best! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Very competent and well-balanced !, Just one example is your comparison about styles (this is very good expressed) 11:03 Styles is another really tricky one to compare, but here's what I think the overall quality of the Styles is pretty much the same on both, it's the same structure the same number of Parts the same variations intros and endings so nothing to choose between the sound quality and the overall composition quality of the Styles both do sound completely different, though the GENOS has a quite high-end clean Studio sound while the PA has a fat warm Punchy and slightly more lowfi sound and I really like them both actually and that means that for contemporary genres like EDM and dance I thought the corg was a clear winner, but for more acoustic genres like folk and the orchestral stuff the GENOS 2 was much better cinematic stuff as well was very much better on the GENOS. I fully agree, ony add this: PA has a fat warm Punchy sound, that is not lofi, but its equilizer and mixer setting makes it sound as if it was slightli lofi. For Popmusic I would prefer the Punchy sound of the PA5X, but as I like classic and cinematic as well, I personally tend to buy the GENOS, but I agree they are both very good and almost equal. The metal housing of th PA5X looks better but the more spaced arrangement of the buttons is a plus for the GENOS. Both have pros an cons. Just as you say.
Great review, the DGX just needs more styles and it is awesome. Yamaha is made for players, other brands are for geeks and knob turners. Yamaha is designed to be played while other brads are for spending time to figure things out in the back room. It’s either be a player or become an engineer to get things going.
Pa5x you can’t edit the arranger in midi which is very important then convert to audio. On the Genos,.You can edit your volumes for different parts and other editing complete your arrangement after it’s all balanced convert it to audio then upload to wherever . Pa5x is a great gigging keyboard, good sounds and beats. You can only record the arranger in mp3audio which is only one trackYes it’s modern and great, great to solo on ,and very musical but not true arranger . Previous Korg were truearrangers.Genos for me is a true arranger. I have both love them both . It’s great to Be able to arrange the arranger parts in midi , upper and lower all 16 tracks then save when your happy ,and then x convert to mp3 or4. Am getting rid of pa5x .
@@charthers8903 You could argue that some tones are better "stock" tones that others but the PA5X has the ability for better sounds than the PA4X its plain and simple. The PA5X has a better DSP. Read for yourself . --- The Korg PA5X delivers superior tones compared to the PA4X due to its upgraded EDS-XP sound engine, which provides richer and more detailed instrument sounds. It has increased PCM memory, allowing for higher-quality samples and a wider variety of tones. The enhanced effects section, improved polyphony, and advanced Defined Nuance Control (DNC) technology contribute to more realistic articulations and smoother transitions. Additionally, the PA5X features a more intuitive interface for sound shaping and new high-quality presets.
@@ArrangerKeyboardGuy not my case, and i have the Audya as well, Support is amazing, at least here in the USA. AJ Rocks.... all other keyboards sound "canned", try it live (Event), and then report back!!! :-)
@@krysbryan4749 for me the best quality of arrangements and reality of the accompanying instruments!! maybe even more modern and innovative styles... then everyone has their own tastes ..
1:35 Build quality
2:12 Keybed
3:00 Display
5:44 Front panel
6:43 Operating system
9:27 Sounds
10:59 Styles
15:15 Features
18:44 Connectivity
21:01 Which is best?
Hi Woody, As an owner of Yamaha Genos 1 and also a Korg PA5X - I totally agree with your review and find it very fair. I don't have the Genos 2 since there didn't appear much change from Genos 1 and decided to have a change and buy the Korg. Both instruments are superb. My Genos 1 is super useful and easy to use live when I'm performing and I have become accustomed to it's way of working. I'm waiting for Genos 3 before coughing up anymore dough....only another 5 or 6 years to wait.....maybe that one will include AI and introduce a touch of randomisation to reduce that sense of repetitiveness and looping (that they all have🤣)
OMG! Ai is going to completely revolutionize Super Articulation 2! 🤯
I also use Band In A Box, which is great for working out songs and so forth, but isn't really designed as a gigging platform. I'm sure you could use it as such, but that really wasn't what it was designed for. Now, if you're not familiar with Band In A Box, it's software for accompaniment generation. It will produce up to five instruments, drums, bass, guitar, piano, and strings are ostensibly the instruments, although they are changed. You input the chord progression for the song, so it's not live or real time) and then select a style you want. It generates the backing tracks.
Band in a Box DOES produce randomness. Because it knows the length of the chord ahead of time, depending on how the style is written, you may find that you'll have a slightly different style for a one bar, two bar, four bar or even more. So, if you have a chord that only plays for one bar, you may have a different style pattern than a chord that plays for two bars. Furthermore, again, depending on how the style is written, you may have several one bar, several two bar, and several four bar patterns available, and depending on the weighting of each pattern, you may find yourself getting a slightly different, randomized, pattern each time you generate the backing.
For the price of the Genos I would expect a metal and wood keyboard enclosure
yeah, that would be a reasonable expectation
That would put an extra 15-20 lbs on it that I don't think most people would like. It's nice for it to be more portable. The plastic is plenty solid IMO. But I agree it is way overpriced; they did not improve it enough over the original Genos...
Good comparison. Neither is perfect. I went with the Korg Pa5x and am very happy with my choice. The build quality and the seamless sound transition feature is what pushed me into the Korg. I could not believe that the Genos2 did not have smooth sound transitions. I am blown away by what I can do with the Korg in terms of creating custom keyboard sets, sounds, samples and styles. No shortage of new things to learn on it. You mention some having issues with Pa5x OS. I have never had a problem.
One other thing I'll add for someone considering the Pa5x is the SongBook in the Korg is the "registrations" similar to Genos. You can save a style, keyboard sets, tempo, pads, etc here for specific songs, then create set lists of tunes you intent to perform so it's ready to go. In addition, Korg gives you 11 "favorite" buttons across the right to save your favorite keyboard sets which can be called up at any time during any tune.
I bought the Yamaha DGX-670 for the acoustic piano sound and weighted 88 and the easy 16/44.1 internal recording to a USB drive. The DGX-670 piano is the best sounding I have heard in 40 years of Dpianos. The arranger is a bonus, and it has a style creator too, so you can create your own style and never get bored. There is only a headphone out, but it is not bad driving it with amp//speaker. For an arranger I use the Roland E-A7, mainly because I always create my own styles specifically for the songs I compose. MIDI out is very important so I can MIDI out the 8 track styles to other synths and instruments.
congrats on the DGX, yeah, pianos are really great, especially when you jump into the piano room mode. interesting to read you are creating own styles on the roland, well done!
For me, I discovered Registration Memory back in my young age when I learned to play music with Yamaha Electone organ series. So I’m a fan and for me, a 1-button touch to set the entire keyboard is a must have! So, Long life to Yamaha Genos2, 3, 4 and 5 😜
Hello from Denmark, I have been a keyboard player for 28 years and I have tryed the Genos 2 and the Korg together for 2.month, The Genos was easy to use. (I have an old Tyros 4) the Korg was complicated and with only a few good sounds from rhe factory, you had to make your Owen sounds, to difficult. Today my setup is: keeping my old Tyros 4 and the cheapest keyboard I ever had in my carrier : the Yamaha DGX 670, it is a fantastic instrument especially for dinner music, 88 fully weighted keys and built in keyboard. The Genos are my winner but a high price for a plastic keyboard.
fabulous insights, much appreciated, thanks for sharing your opinions
We make many decisions with our wallets. As a Korg owner for all of my keyboards over the years, starting with the iX300, I would choose the PA5X (if I had the money, I don't). I really like the DGX-670, but I've got a couple of changes I'd like to make to it, although the changes I would like would probably double the price of it.
For the DGX-680, I'd like to see:
1. The Stand and Pedal unit included in the price
2. Speaker system from the HS-4
3. The rear panel from the PSR EW425 and then add a standard 5-pin DIN MIDI In/Out ports.
4. A 7" display 800x480 resolution.
5. At least two Intros, two endings, and two fills and a break. I really would like to see three of each.
6. More generic styles and not song-specific.
7.Double the number of styles, this only has 263 styles, it should have over 500.
If they did that with the -680, that would be a keyboard I would buy.
The DGX-670 has 3 intros and 3 endings. It also has 4 fills as each variation has its own bridge, and it does have a break. The 3 intros and 3 endings are not accessible by physical buttons (like in the PSR SX series), but via menus. You can download additional styles, and the DGX-670 supports the more advanced format SFF2 (GE), which is found in the PSR-SX series (the PSR-E series supports only SFF1 format). Even though Yamaha's MusicSoft website does not include the DGX-670 in their list of arranger keyboards, the styles you can purchase from them will work, although not as good as in the supported series, such as PSR-SX, due to the relatively limited number of voices.
@@Instrumental-Covers Thank you for the reply.
As to the Intro and Endings, if you can not get to them at the start or ending of a song from the panel, to me, they're useless.
As to the styles, I can't find anything that says how many styles I can download and install. With a memory of only 20MB, I could see where that would get used up really quickly.
As such, my initial comment stands, but thank you for the information.
@@GaryMCurran You are welcome. I think what you want for the intros and endings is the physical buttons like in the PSR-SX, because the instrument does have 3 of each. I can provide you with an idea of the number of styles you can install in the built-in memory: a pretty complex style such as the one found in Genos is about 60 KB. Assuming an average style size of 50 KB, you can install 20MB/50KB = 20,000 KB/50 KB = 400 additional styles. Remember that styles are not audio files, just the instructions, so with a modest memory you can install a very large number of styles. But the DGX-680 you describe would be a welcome addition.
@@Instrumental-Covers Yes, What I am looking for are the buttons on the panel. Since I mostly play live, I want to be able to do things 'on the fly', and having three buttons for each is the best way to go.
I took a quick glance through the User's Manual and the Reference Manual and I couldn't find anything about additional files I agree that 20MB would provide for a substantial number of additional styles, but are they on a User Page for styles? How much of that 20 meg is going to be available if you're using it for song sequencing?
If we're going to upgrade the upcoming -680, I just think it's easier to have all of these styles and such already loaded. My two cents.
@@GaryMCurran My understanding is that the 20 MB are for the styles, and for song sequencing you have 1MB of internal memory, with 500 records available. So, you have memory for at least 400 additional styles and 500 songs.
I think the DGX-670 is the most advanced digital piano ensemble on the market at its price point. The Korg XE20, Roland FP-E50 and Casio PX-S3100 are significantly below in terms of arranger capabilities.
For example, the Korg XE20 has the styles found in the arranger Korg PA60, which I owned when it came out around 2000... so the Korg XE20 has the old tone generator and arranger engine from a machine that is almost 25 years old. When I played the XE20 in stores, I could see the names of the styles were the same my old Korg PA60 had. Not to mention that the XE20 Italian sample doesn't have the same quality of the CFX Concert Grand sample in the DGX-670.
If Korg put in the XE21 (successor of current XE20) the arranger engine of their current PA series (let's say, the PA1000), a good speaker system (which the XE20 doesn't have), a nice large touch screen instead of the tiny old-school LCD screen, then Yamaha would probably be forced to upgrade their DGX-670. Otherwise, I think the upgrades will be more modest, as they have no incentive to produce a super machine for under $1,000 when the competition is so far behind.
Hi Woody!
It was very exciting to watch this video! If one is choosing between these two top-drawer instruments from the two top manufacturers in the business, then one is in for a real treat!
The thing that surprised me though is what you said about the synths/pads being equally good on either. I would have expected the Korg to have the upper hand here. Yamaha having superior acoustic instruments isn’t a surprise though as it has been this way for years.
However, the thing that REALLY took me by surprise - and I kind of anticipated something like these, given that the ‘snow white’ has been in the picture frame for most of the video - is when you introduced the DGX-670! You put things in real perspective with that one and it isn’t every reviewer would do. In fact, you’re just about the only person whom I can imagine actually doing it!! Obviously, the DGX won’t be as advanced as any of those but in the right hands, it will be ‘almost there’, at a fraction of the price and with, IMHO, the looks to light up the room! One might even look at it as a slap in the face to both the Genos 2 and PA5X by the ‘little’ DGX-670!!
The problem with the DGX-670 for me is the size. I simply do not have the space for a keyboard of this size and from what I’ve gathered, it isn’t exactly feather-light either which, I guess, is a consequence of it being made so well and having a really good set of speakers. I wish Yamaha would make a smaller, 73/76 key version with the same GHS action like they did with the P-125/121 digital pianos that you had prior to the DGX.
I think the manufacturers are underestimating the importance of models with fewer keys and integrated speakers. As prices of everything are going up for us here in Europe, the demand for smaller and cheaper accommodation will become greater and so, a smaller instrument becomes more desirable than a full-size 88-key one. You can still have everything - hammer action and built-in speakers, just in a slightly more manageable package. Not all of us want to play Chopin (even if that might be the ultimate achievement)!
I am rambling, sorry about that! Anyway, a great video - informative and entertaining as always - and with a point! Thank you, Woody!
Cheers!
Another great video Woody, and fantastic playing, really enjoying your playing. I have both these great keyboards and I like them both equally, and as you say both have their strengths in different areas over the other. I just wanted to mention one thing, about the extra styles, Korg also has these in the form of Bonusware on their site and its well over 1000 styles, all made by Korg engineers and they are absolutely fabulous, even from the early ones they made, they all play very well on the Pa5x. That DGX you have sounds beautiful too and looks very stylish :)
well, that is the ultimate solution to a tricky decision, buy both! congrats and I know you are having a lot of fun. Thank you so much for bringing the extra Korg styles to our attention.
@@WoodyPianoShack You're most welcome Woody, brilliant stuff as always!
Thank you for your honest review and amazing content.most honest review have ever been seen in all UA-cam channels.thank you again for you honesty. ❤
means a lot to me, thanks for the feedback!
Great review Woody. Very objective. As it should be. So thank you for that.
Couple of things to add. I own both keyboards. I agree that sound editing capabilities are limited at Genos2 BUT the Korg Pa5X has the full capabilities of a high end Synth workstation plus a fully implemented sampler. Not at all pretty basic sound editing as you said. And there is also a huge difference of the style capabilities! Here also Korg has the much more elaborate concept, with the opportunity to have completely different style variations for different chord types like major, minor, diminished etc. Yamaha derives ALL variations from one basic style played with a major 9 chord. Also Yamaha is much more limited in style editing than the Korg. I don't kknow if you took a look at the documentation? Yamaha 300 pages vs more than 2300 pages for Korg. Lots of the pages dedicated to sound and style programming at Korg side. So I totally disagree to your opinion that sound and styles are comparable.
For the Yamaha registrations there is NO way for replacing them with the Korg songbook as you assumed because of the very few aspects that can be saved in the Pa5X songbook compared to the Genos2 registrations. The missing seamless sound transistion on the Genos is a shame, because Yamaha knows how to do seamless sound switching in the Montage/Modx with the same AWM2/FM sound engines. The overall concept and architecture of the Korg is outdated. It is extremely hard to use and has just a renovated architecture compared to the predecessors instead of real innovation. The more modern instrument and ways easier to learn and use is the Yamaha. Overall in my opinion the Yamaha is the keyboards for players whereas the Korg is the one for Creators.
PS: I think the main focus group for both keyboards are entertainers and believe me there is absolutely nothing which the audience hates more than "a creative new interpretation" of a known title. So title specific styles are a core feature for the target audience of the keyboards.
brilliant points, thanks for adding your insights to the conversation. strangely, i did explore the sound editing capabilities of the Pa and they were nowhere near that of a synth workstation... but it was a while ago, and perhaps i didn't even reach the right page.
Most of the PA5X are specific styles and many of them are more oriented to contemporary music while Genos is more focused on that kind of music that elder people like. Although in fact the woodwinds and other acoustic in Genos 2 sounds better, PA5X is like a limitless customizable keyboard for a more professional or enthusiastic use. Caming from TYROS4 during 10 years, I'm very happy with my PA5X. But having the 2 wouldn't be a bad idea...
Did the PA5X get updated? Because I remember reading the manual when it came out to see if any interesting synthesis capabilities were in there.. and didn’t see anything close to a synth workstation
@@WagooYou probably missed something. PA5X_Muser_Manual_v12_E.pdf pages 911 through 1048 + 1469 through 1576. Even more capable than Yamaha's AWM2 and fully editable. I am not interested in discussing whether aditional sound engines would makes sense or not as long as it is possible to program almost every sound based what Korg built in.
Awesome video sir! Thanks for sharing.
I agree with your conclusion. I also think that it is crazy that the Genos can't be had with an 88-key weighted keyboard, even as an option. That said, if I was buying a flagshjip arranger, then I'd have to go with the Genos, just because it sounds bette and more realistic to me then the Korg.
I agree 1) The DGX670 and then 2) SX920/sx720 ... Both are very good values. I wish they had an 88-key version of the SX920.
Sort of defeats the object but you can connect an 88 key controller to Genos and sx920 for full octave control.
@@stuartingram423thought about it … but it is unpleasant to play with two keyboards on top of each other
An additional topic - PA 5x comes with a much better additional speaker attachment. Yamaha one is good too, but the woofer one is a pain to carry..
I've used Yamaha arranger keyboards for many years and what I liked most was the directness of the system. The downside is that I could not create custom sounds
, styles etc. to my liking. Since last years I am using Korg arrangers which are way more flexible in that respect. It was quite a steep learning curve but it opened a world of new possibilities for me. Furthermore, Korg keyboards have far better sounding drawbars than Yamaha arranger keyboards. And btw I never had any problems with the OS of the Korg yet.
The Genos actually froze once during a performance. In my opinion the Korg is overall more suitable for live performances than the Yamaha.
Well presented 🎉
I tried the Pa5X. 3 themes There is nothing wrong with it but it is always a matter of taste.
I replaced my Genos with Genos 2 and WOW every day I enjoy the great sounds in the more orchestral and Bigband genre. The Genos was already the top in that genre for me!
The Genos 2 is pure class and sounds masterfully better than the Genos 1.
I also think the Pa5x is very good in terms of quality but I am not blown away by it as I am by the Genos 2.
very fair and reasonable, congrats btw on your g2!
The piano version of the Genos 2is the Yamaha CVP 900.
Ultimately the winner is the Arranger that suites you the end user.
Whch is the song at 4min
Yes PA5X has better hardware, but if you are satisfied and can play and how to use it, why not 🎉 I am still happy with the PSR-SX920
Great comparison, thanks a lot, Woody!
Formerly, I owened the Yamaha PSR-3000, now have the PSR-S970. I am very much used to the Yamaha operating philosophy.
Thus, I would go for Yamaha again when buying a new keboard sometime.
Hello Woody. One area you may have missed: Technical Support, Korg UK have been brilliant over the years with their support.
fair enough, thanks for adding that to the debate
In my opinion both keyboards are made for different purposes. The Genos for home users and Korg for on the road and live performances.
well thanks for that! i am not sure tho, both seem equally suited for home and live.
The comparison I waited for!
can you read my mind ;-)
I really dug your "Return to Innocence. " 💕💫💖💜
Hi Woody. I am following your work quite some long and really appreciate how you do it. Eventually, this is a really good comparison. I personally prefer a Genous sound, especially in sound quality. But, did you have a chance to take a look at one serious keyboard arranger, KETRON EVENT? Your point of view will be outstanding! Is it possible to have a battle between these three?
i have never even seen one in the flesh, late alone played. great though it may be, i think only a really tiny market share.
For what about sound design the Korg is by far the king. A full synthesizer is build in with 24 oscillators.
My vote goes to the blanket!
Genos2 would be a no-brainer for anyone accustomed to Yamaha arrangers (which is, just about everyone playing arrangers the last 30+ years), but not at 4K+ euros. I could never convince myself to buy a plastic keyboard for 4K.
Seen a lot of positivity about the DGX, although is it similar in sound quality to the sx600 ?
The genos and pa5x certainly "sound" like a few grands worth! Loving those EP's.
dgx internals are based on the sx600 to the best of my knowledge
Thanks for the review and comparisons. Just checking, does the PA5X have a built in audio interface like the Genos 2 have ?
don't remember you will have to refer to manual or spec sheet
Nice demo! - but what about the effects? - greetings, Levi
amazing on both, nothing to pick between them
If you are a past Korg owner you stick with Korg or vice versus with Yamaha due to the sets that you already have, as a Korg user it's hard to switch to a Yamaha although I have the PSR-a5000 also and the KORG pa5x, the complaints on the 5x is that previous sets that are a mix mash of different sets will sometimes get you in trouble because they are not paid and not 100 percent optimized, so the complaints are from users that have the free sets and not the paid sets that are more refined and better working, I love the 5X and sold the 4 because there is a big difference as opposed to Genos 1 and 2 which most user would not upgrade. Either instruments are great and players should not get swayed into opinions of others if you are a new user of these keyboards my 2 cents. :)
Is Yamaha doing a similar thing as the Tyros? We've seen five of them before the Genos came out, and is fortunately compatible with Tyros media. For some reason the Korg reminds me of a Motif or a DX7...how heavy is it?
The winner is there all along...sitting silently on the couch! But for real, it seems like the Genos, the Clavinova series, PSRs and the DGX shares a similar core engine, just packaged differently...
the pa is heavy, like 15kg, which I appreciate that solidity and sturdiness in a studio keyboard! and even if your gigging, you probably take it in the car so weight no matter...? i agree with your last comment, they all share very similar DNA
@@WoodyPianoShack The weight isn't actually that bad. Can't just put it in the usual gig bag. For the commuting gigger that can be a bit more hassle, but hey, it should survive a few knocks here and there...
I found Korg to be a lot more complicated and difficult to work with compared to the yamaha.
Your comparison is exeptional good, it covers all aspects, and it is just to the point!
I have seen many comparisons, but this is the best! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Very competent and well-balanced !,
Just one example is your comparison about styles (this is very good expressed)
11:03
Styles is another really tricky one to compare,
but here's what I think the overall quality of the Styles is pretty much the same on both,
it's the same structure the same number of Parts the
same variations intros and endings so nothing to choose between
the sound quality and the overall composition
quality of the Styles both do sound completely different,
though the GENOS has a quite high-end clean Studio sound
while the PA has a fat warm Punchy and slightly more lowfi sound and I really
like them both actually and that means that for contemporary genres like EDM
and dance I thought the corg was a clear winner,
but for more acoustic genres like folk and the orchestral stuff the GENOS 2
was much better cinematic stuff as well was very much better on the GENOS.
I fully agree, ony add this: PA has a fat warm Punchy sound, that is not lofi, but its equilizer and mixer setting makes it sound as if it was slightli lofi.
For Popmusic I would prefer the Punchy sound of the PA5X,
but as I like classic and cinematic as well, I personally tend to buy the GENOS, but I agree they are both very good and almost equal. The metal housing of th PA5X looks better but the more spaced arrangement of the buttons is a plus for the GENOS.
Both have pros an cons. Just as you say.
The Genos 1/2 kills everything on the market atm.
I have a Genos one and have from coming from Korg products. I agree with your view.
Great review, the DGX just needs more styles and it is awesome. Yamaha is made for players, other brands are for geeks and knob turners. Yamaha is designed to be played while other brads are for spending time to figure things out in the back room. It’s either be a player or become an engineer to get things going.
that reminds me, should try and download some style packs from psrtutorial to see if they will work. thx for the comm.
Best arranger is of course KETRON EVENT, for Sounds it's KRONOS 2 .
Great video
The worst thing at the Genos is the bad performance regarding reading USB Sticks.
Pa5x is more masculine. Genos is sweet.
Do you use only factory styles/voices/acc or import your own?"
these are factory styles that I adjust by removing parts or changing sounds.
Summary:
Korg -> Balkan, Oriental
Yamaha -> Western
yeah, the korg arrangers always most popular with the world music players, it seems
Pa5x you can’t edit the arranger in midi which is very important then convert to audio. On the Genos,.You can edit your volumes for different parts and other editing complete your arrangement after it’s all balanced convert it to audio then upload to wherever . Pa5x is a great gigging keyboard, good sounds and beats. You can only record the arranger in mp3audio which is only one trackYes it’s modern and great, great to solo on ,and very musical but not true arranger . Previous Korg were truearrangers.Genos for me is a true arranger. I have both love them both . It’s great to Be able to arrange the arranger parts in midi , upper and lower all 16 tracks then save when your happy ,and then x convert to mp3 or4. Am getting rid of pa5x .
odd-meter styles?
waltzes obviously and just the one or two 5/4, that's it
@@WoodyPianoShack that's not flagship-like
Hi Woody!
Hi Sergio from Brasil!
No Ketron?
too niche I feel, korg and yamaha are the only two real contenders in this space... just my opinion.
I think the pa4x was just as good as the pa5x and I hear a lot of people preferring it
For pure sound tone, No. Maybe the OS was a little more user friendly.
@@Echochamber79The players I know have sets on it and the sound is amazing much better than stock pa5x
@@charthers8903 You could argue that some tones are better "stock" tones that others but the PA5X has the ability for better sounds than the PA4X its plain and simple. The PA5X has a better DSP. Read for yourself . --- The Korg PA5X delivers superior tones compared to the PA4X due to its upgraded EDS-XP sound engine, which provides richer and more detailed instrument sounds. It has increased PCM memory, allowing for higher-quality samples and a wider variety of tones. The enhanced effects section, improved polyphony, and advanced Defined Nuance Control (DNC) technology contribute to more realistic articulations and smoother transitions. Additionally, the PA5X features a more intuitive interface for sound shaping and new high-quality presets.
@@charthers8903 Yes, and the Pa5x can do much better than PA4X with a good programming
@@eduardopereira9693Hopefully.. Haven’t heard anything that’s actually better yet
I think that i make a mistake selling my korg pax5 . Iam thinking of buying the genos 2 but i dont know
Korg wins
🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙉
The best Flagship is Ketron Event 😉
Sorry, but no.
which is best? neither of those, the best is Ketron Event by a mile, a real band... ALL AUDIO...try it!!
If you like glitchy UIs. Terrible support. Freezing instruments. Sure.
@@ArrangerKeyboardGuy not my case, and i have the Audya as well, Support is amazing, at least here in the USA. AJ Rocks.... all other keyboards sound "canned", try it live (Event), and then report back!!! :-)
@@ArrangerKeyboardGuy
Ketron Event Is the best !!!!!
Ketron loop no sound
@@krysbryan4749 for me the best quality of arrangements and reality of the accompanying instruments!! maybe even more modern and innovative styles... then everyone has their own tastes ..