Abandoned Ferrari 308 Rebuild Restoration - Part 4
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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WE FINALLY TAKE THE 308 FOR ITS FIRST OUTING IN 15 YEARS BUT HOW DOES IT DRIVE ?
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Great update. The 4k rpm idle should be the clue to solve the problem. Have you checked the idle stabilizer valve? If it were stuck open, it would cause your high idle and affect cold start. The popping at low rpm may be ignition timing, or bad intake valve seats. I don't recall if you've done a cylinder leakdown test on this motor. Are there any centrifugal weights in the distributor? They may be sticking. Good luck!
Might be worth checking if you have an air leak after the throttle body? You need to smoke test the intake system with a pressure smoke tester which basically fills the intake system with an inert smoke under pressure, if you have an air leak, then smoke escapes from anywhere in the intake system & you’ll be able to see where it’s coming from
I believe you’ve had a combination of engine problems, but the main causal is as mentioned previously, the Bosch fuel metering unit or distribution unit. They are so sensitive and age, wear, along with foreign matter intrusion can create real scratch your head problems, as experienced!
There's procedures to test them out. One of them involves measuring the pressure in the upper and lower portions. I don't have the docs in front of me now but there are testing procedures around. All the old-timers say the paramount number one thing to test is the fuel pressures.
Yes....and vaccum pulls down the arm to distribute fuel.....thats why I would love to see if there are vaccum leaks
@@beatingyou01
@@timfulmer5156 I'm not sure what you're referring to, there's a mechanical arm connected to the air flow plate pushes the rod in the center of the fuel distributor up to distribute fuel.
MotoGP
Scott those seats look lovely but could you not have fired some satin black over those seat rails?!?!?!?!??
In UK there are a lot of very skilled craftsman. I watch WD and car SOS and is amazing the specialists of all sort of parts. Those seats look very good.
Check system and control pressures and get ready to restore the fuel distributor and the warmup regulator. Renew the injectors too. You'll easily find kits for that or get refurbished ones by German Spob in Germany. Keep faith! Great job as usual.
Sounds like the same problem your British friend Jack at the Number 27 UA-cam channel was having with his 308. Drove him nuts. Turned out to be improperly installed valve guides. You need to perform a compression test.
Decades ago I had a similar problem. I discovered that the rotor position was off just enough that it would lose contact with the interior distributor cap post and would allow it to jump spark. The advance plate when turning would change the position of the rotor causing the misfire. Carbon tracking could also be a problem or a cracked distributor rotor inside. I think you have some kind of spark leakage. It will be interesting to see what you find! Good Luck 👍🏻
Hi Scott, thanks for this series on the 308 GTSi. Regarding the ignition issue. When you previously changed your US spec ECU boxes ("computers") into the car it ran without the buckling and backfiring. However, you explained the grounding problem and made a grounding bridge. This you did not repeat (at least in the video) after you had installed the new ECU and solved the fuel pump connection. I had a similar issue on mine, 1980, and it was exactly this grounding issue. Not a damaged ECU. Almost same picture. I made a permanent additional 4 square mm line from the two ECUs to the coils mounting point. Immediate massive improvement. Maybe worth a try. Looking forward to your next vid!
Your patience is commendable! Firstly, those seats look fantastic! Secondly, nice work on the centre console and the fuses, however that engine gremlin must be driving you bonkers! I know you'll crack it eventually, so don't give up. And besides, even when the car is misbehaving, it still makes for a tremendously enjoyable watch. There's not much better than a new Ratarossa Ferrari video released on UA-cam. I've chosen to watch this rather than the England game 🙂
Thank you very much!
You may have tried these things...but I would replace every vacuum line and then investigate rebuilding the Bosch fuel distributor...on a car of this age, it is likely that it has an issue. I see others have mentioned the fuel distributor too.
Absolutely love the 308 videos. Really hope you get it running sweet.
I did offer you the automotive oscilloscope to find the misfire on that engine, it is very good at finding ignition problems, just what you need I think, especially if nothing else, to eliminate problems with it, That offer still stands if you want.
Which oscilloscope is that? I want to buy one myself, but the picoscope is too expensive…. Got misfire problems as well on my ‘92 Lebaron.
@@jengelenm It's a Hantek handheld scope, an amazing little tool, that analyzes HT and LT systems.
I must say, I really like the color of that 308. After seeing so many wrapped in Rosso Corsa, it's refreshing to see something different. About the engine, perhaps you can go the route that Jared Pink did; Install a Holley fuel injection system. ✌🏻🇺🇸
I still think that poor running at low revs, then clears under load over a certain rpm is an ignition problem somewhere. Oily spark plugs from bad valve stem seals or something like that . If its getting better as it warms up , it could be burning of residual and then once its parked again , oil leaking into the cylinders making it hard to start again
Long cranking sounds followed by a cloud of blue and black smoke…..another Ferrari bursts to life! 😄👍👍…….followed by a push home of course……😛
Lol
Take care of the connectors of the lighter, I think the center is plus, because when you use a charger, it can damage.
Nice build and perfect job as usual.
Greetings from aut
Have you timed the injection up ?
Keep up with your brothers Bentley now 😎 Definitely get the Bentley, you’ll love it!
Scott have you tested the alternator? I know the 308 alternators have issues charging at low revs and are mediocre even at higher revs. I wonder if at idle the voltage is just too slow for the ignition to work properly. You could try letting it idle with a battery charger connected to see if it idles better.
I’ll give that a shot
I would personally get that metering head tested they used to be notorious for running issues back in the day on old VW Golfs and Audis. I served my time on them things and they drove me up the wall. It looks very similar to the Bosch ones we used to have at VW/Audi.
Hey Scott, there is a company in the USA re JWest Engineering that makes a new Fues Panel for 914’s re blade fuses. Pretty inexpensive and might really meet your needs. Always fun to see your vids!!!!
Jonathan Bird makes the replacement 308 fuse box.
Scott just visit Iain Tyrrell’s workshop to sort the engine out😊
Hi, I have a 308 gtsi and had a similar problem. Eventually it wouldn’t start. Check your fuel pump relay for corrosion on tabs of relay and female inserts. I live in Huntington Beach Ca. near the beach. Mine were green with corrosion on them. A little sand paper solved prob. Hope this works. My 308 rocks your Ratarossa window sticker.
Best of luck, Ted
Ditch the Bosch K-jetronic fuel system😉
Its like watching the Chuckle Brothers.......🤣
Love your channel, I've had a 1985 308 and hot start problems are painful and proper idle and problems at low rpm can really be painful. The fuel systems were all made by BOSCH and depending on the year, the fuel injector systems have different part numbers. If these are not properly matched with the lower unit the fuel distributor bolts on to, it can be a relentless set of problems. My suggestion would be to double check the exact number of the fuel distributor the car came with and then match it properly to the lower unit. Sometimes when they are changed, the improper part number is installed. This is where the problems start. I would also either rebuild the fuel distributor or have it rebuilt. This solved a huge amount of my problems. Perhaps it will work for you. I have a 308 fuel distributor for a 1985 Qutrovaluve so I don't think it will work on this car but if you ever need one for a 1985 308 let me know.
follow up, you can also replace the fuel accumulator and the injectors at a reasonable cost. This may not solve the problem totally, but it will certainly eliminate these from being the possible problem. This is pretty easy to do.
Definitely continue with the "Muppetry" banter....it's very funny !!!
Lots of light aircraft playing overhead sounds fun
Hi Scott. Great to see you back. The 308 is looking Brilliant. The leather seats and Intior is Mint bro. I'm stunned that you can still get those indicator lenses. Very Cool. I really like that Bently. It would be great for the Channel and give you something to sink your teeth into lol. 😅. Great Video again Scott. 😅 🇨🇮🇨🇮
It does have symptoms of bad metering head or clogged injectors.
I know my suggestion will be very controversial and possibly sound daft.
Empty the fuel and put a couple gallon of BP ultimate in (better than vpower in my testing) and see if it clears up at all.
Long story, I bought a bike that needed the fuel system cleaning, vpower though it did nothing but BP ultimate made a massive difference.
Don’t worry about background noise, Scott. Life has background noise. Just crack on. Great video
u should name it project 308 problems😂😂😂....sending regards from Cyprus...keep up the good work
14:13 Sounds more like a VW Beetle than a Ferrari. lol
Great retrimming and the music is much better 👍
Saw a video where Car Wizard upgraded the whole fuel system from carbs to EFI(or something similar) and the engine performed much better. Saw DDE do a similar upgrade on a Mercialago( I think that was from manual throttle bottles to electric or something like that.). Just an idea.
Scott man, you've got the patience of a saint. I would've gotten rid of this thing well before it started giving trouble. 🙂
Man you need to get that car out of England! Send it to me in the USA
You would get a species ton of views by converting it to electric, and thorium or aluminum air or solid state battery at that.
Another idea, make a entire car sized leather vehicle wrap, or make a clear lexan casing that attaches around the vehicle, so never a stone chip etc.
I don't know, but am trying to help, and my advice is free so its not a bad deal is it?
I feel your pain , we all live in hope to sort our old crusty but loved cars to better helth , problems one after another , a good mechanic is only good cuz he has gone through n Learnt from his experience
You'll get there, you always do! Great update, stick with it 👍🏼
Is the K-Jetronic system known good? Have you put the pressure gauges on it to verify, also have you gone through the system and confirmed that there are no vacuum leaks. You probably know this, but K-Jet really really can't deal with vacuum leaks.
Awesome progress..know it will be resolved soon..can’t add anything not already discussed below..enjoy your channel immensely!
Actually looks really nice in 2 tone 😎
might be a blocked jet in the carbs. Try watching Tyrile cars and tune up the air screw also listen to the carbs with a pipe
Also use propane gas from a bottle see if it stops the missing revs.
It takes a real automotive magician to tune the carbs on a fuel injected engine.
Another Outstanding video. Thank you!
Thanks again!
the 308 is still a lovely looking car ! i like the bbi type paint job on this scott with the black against the metallic you wont have a problem selling it!!
Have you spoke to Jack from the channel Number 27? He spent months trying to sort the lumpy running on his 308.
Have you done a smoke test on the inlet to check for air/vacium leaks?
Smoke when cold??? Had a company car in the late 80s, brand new; however, a week after delivery, it started to smoke badly when starting from cold, but the smoking stopped once the car warmed-up. My suspicions were a crack somewhere in the cylinder head, which was confirmed when the car was returned to the dealer. The crack was just above an inlet valve, which, when cold, allowed oil seepage into the combustion chamber, once the engine was hot, the crack closed up under heat induced compression and the smoking ceased.......................
This Car is stunning 😍
Great video! Thank you 🙌
My '87 900Turbo running KJet had similar issues runn at particular revs. This was cured with a replacement Fuel pump relay
Bentleys are becoming popular with auto youtubers lately. Mat Armstrong has been wanting one. DDE Dave is in the market for one.
What he needs is a Bentley Service Manual for that 308, but I doubt Ferrari let them make'em for Fezzas,of course.
Love these vids. I watch so many car channels, but this is the only one I have sub’d. are there tee shirts?
Working on this doesn't seem easy, good job ✌️
Take it to Iain Tyrell to help you get it running correctly, would make for a good collab video
Chap in Queensland, Aus purchased a Jeep that was a LEMON and after a couple of years of battling with the company decided to turn it into a '$1 a hit' vehicles and you got the go to the final extemination of the thing using cannons, flamethrowers etc.
His reasoning was that they could refund him but also then sell it again and he refused to see someone else go through the heartache!!
Maybe a stupid suggestion but changing out the flywheel sensors (3 iirc) could make a difference, they are not expensive and not a nightmare to replace?
Have you checked distributor caps, rotors and dustcovers? O had similar issues in my MB W124, wich uses similar fuel injection
Hey Scott too bad you are having such a problem with this one. May I suggest just one other thing, it is a connector that sits between the TDC and Tach sensors and the ignition modules. From the diagrams it looks like it is C36. Can't tell you where it is on that early injection GTS, but if you trace the wiring back from the TDC and Tach sensors you should be able to find it. If you haven't looked at that one yet that could be causing problems.
I've had a few of my VWs with a CIS fuel injection system give me similar issues because of injector seal O-rings. You have to have a special tool to pry them out too so you don't damage the injector, but it is easy to do. They look like tiny Donuts. Also, make sure the fuel distributor plunger is adjusted and not sticking. On my VWs they were on top of the Airbox.
So close to the finish line! But instead of sending the 🏎 over a cliff, I’ll be happy to have it here in the States. 😀
This acts like a vacuum leak. Especially because it runs better at higher RPMs where more fuel is required and the A/F ratio is less critical. I would also check your connections to the fuel pump. Although you replaced the fuse holder, that wire could still be an issue. Take the connector cover off and look at the crimp. Just saying.
Great to see some progress on this one! Small steps but it’s getting there at least. Have you tried a simple temperature sensor? Or vacuum pipes as mentioned above? For the cost of some vacuum hose it’s worth doing, and I can’t see the temperature sensor being that badly priced. I’ve had issues with a jetronic system when I didn’t use a genuine sensor it had a slightly different reading range so caused some minor issues
i would say double check timing
could it be 180 degrees out
do compression test should run better even if it had worn cylinders
i think you have been through ignition system already check again
see if you can run it on neat injector fuel system additive by rigging something up
then fresh fuel
then try adjusting mixture on injection distributor
after that mechanical issue and if it only smokes on start up valve stem rubbers
good luck Scott
either way makes great content
Ever thought of taking a 348 or Mondial and swapping in a 430 drivetrain, kind of a restomod using oem Ferrari bits.
It’s coming along!!!🏎️🏎️🏎️
Bosch unit the springs will be sticking I had this with my QV and all it took was a mallet and very carefully hit the tops of the bolts.
Scott, in Belgium a 2012 Bentley Continental Convertible W12 6.0 with 39000 kms on the clock costs 25250 euro's, ACCIDENT FREE!
Check all of your hoses and such: This kinda sounds like a vacuum leak somewhere and would be good to rule out. I had a Porsche 924 with that same K-Jetronic injection system and it was sensitive to v-leaks
It sounds like only one bank is firing. Have you checked the timing on the cam in relation to the side that may not be firing?? I would check timing anyway.
Get the K jetronic fuel injection system checked. They are a massive pain in backside to set up correctly, take it to an old Mercedes specialist as a lot of them came with same fuel injection system.
Great video! Hoping I never have these issues with my '80 GTSi. However - can you share a link to where you found those front indicator covers? Do they have US spec?
Let me check
Due to personal issues with mine many years ago, you need to strip the Bosch system down, rebuild and start again.
I would use any one of the new self-learning EFI kits made for Ferraris.
Hi Scott - I have a suggestion that might help ?
I have recently had intermittent misfires on an 1996 Jaguar XK8 and still had the problem after changing the Plugs, Coils, Ignition Control Modules and a Rebuilt ECU.
I checked wiring continuity for everything and could still not find the issue and then finally honed in on the plugs that connect to the Ignition Control Module and it looked like the female side of the plug was too big thus not making consistent contact - I ordered new plugs (from China) but ended up just closing the gaps to make contact and this helped but didn't fully resolve the issue.
I then decided to check the same for the coil electrical connectors and closed their gaps because they also looked too big and whilst doing this I noticed the plastic locking tab inside one of the plugs was missing thus not holding the connector pin in place and not making proper / consistent contact
After all of this my problem was resolved and no more misfire - I'm obviously super happy
Wiring issues are a right pain in the backside however it is possible you might have a similar problem especially with the age of the car and the number of times its been taken apart link to my ignition control plug issue attached that might help ???
studio.ua-cam.com/users/video0G1RSBmL7b8/edit
I think its worth a shot if only to eliminate a possibility ?
Good Luck
For plastic trim I use kiwi boot polish every wash to restore color
That looks like a V8 version of the lamented Bosch K-Jetronic injection system. Probably uses an enrichment valve that's a separate unit for cold start and as both are mechanical units then old fuel tarnish will cause things to get gummed up and stick.
There's plenty of info out there if you go looking for it on how to clean and repair these units. Pretty sure Porsche 924 and 944 owners have managed to get a hold of the Bosch service manual for these systems and should be close enough to a V8 version to be useful.
I'd also tidy up all the ignition coil wiring all the way back to the ECU's so it doesn't look like a rats nest and if you use vendors like Vehicle Wiring Products then you can even source the correct coloured wires with correct trace colours.
I had a similar situations with my 924 Turbo(also K-Jet)
All the individual components tested fine off the car, however, on the car i discovered things weren't getting FULL voltage.(5.3v or so) Fixing grounds and adding more grounds solved everything .
Also, your WUR could have some garbage in the screen.
thanks dude
TY 🙏🙏
Hmm, idle air control valve - has that been checked and refurbished? CIS systems are notorious for not tolerating vacuum leaks, fuel distributor should also be checked/rebuilt.
Oscilloscopes / Data logging
My memory doesn't serve me to well but what have you done ignition diagnosis wise? it sounds like the timing may be a little off. are all HT leads okay and most importantly do the HT leads have metal covers on the spark plug end?
Nice to see it running... but when will there be some BBi footage?
Split vacuum hose somewhere?
Are you driving with trade plates? Or is it private roads only?
Hang in there mate. As a consolation the car is looking great:)
😂 😂 The ending I think just park it up in a field and blow it up, stick a load of ads on the video bit like how AMC does and you'll earn enough revenue to build the F40 or restore the testarossa 😁
Using logic, you've replaced all the leads, plugs and coils and you've compression tested. It's got to be either the fuel injection metering head or the pump is failing. It's a yank so it's used to running on much lower Ron fuel than we have here. I'm wondering if the ecu is set up for poorer fuel and the combination of higher Ron and dried out seals is causing the issue. Does it run an FPR?
Maybe put the new ECU in the black 308 and see if its giving problems on that car. I know its a slightly different map but if you can rule it out as working ok then you can rule it out. Good luck
Maybe have a Chat with youtuber "number 27". He had some engine problems in his uk 308 aswell.
That was a carbed car, this one is EFI. Whole different rabbit hole.
Beautiful Nightmare cars ... 🔥🔥🔥
have you used a vaccum guage to measure idle vaccum?
@ratarossa Scott. Should have gone for the spade conversion for the fuses. Check out Ian Barkaway restoration video of his 308 GTSi
Did you put new fuel in it after it had been sitting for so long?
cannot remember so pardon me if you did them * extenders were replaced with plugs? Snap-on thermal imager, buy or borrow one and have a deep look into the cylinders and see what is happening combustion-wise. That's all I have at this stage of the resurrection. Really thought the fuse blocks were the ticket, but hey they will be eventually.
I’d check the airflow sensor had the same issue on my Alfa GT at low revs