I'm a pilot and don't like the yoke at all on a car. In an airplane you initiate the turn, by rotating the yoke around 30 to 45 degrees, then back to neutral. To level the wings you rotate back the other way, then back to neutral. In a car you rotate the steering wheel more than 360 degrees. It looks cool, but the yoke is the wrong tool for the job.
yea exactly. In the 172 I fly, I rarely rotate the yoke more than 45 degrees like you said. At the most, its 90 degrees. I dont understand how tesla would have thought this was a good idea. Its even worse when you realize that teslas headquarters is at hawthorn airport. They could have walked outside, and have noticed that aircraft yokes don't rotate the same amount as a car.
@@optimusprime844 if it's not ready why did they put it on these cars? As far as we know, they don't have any hardware that would alow for steer by wire systems.
@@loweflyer7778 Tesla's marketing are all about the buzz they can create by making people talk about them, like literally the video we're watching. So they'll make ridiculous decisions on everything we see normal, and convince us to try and get used to it. I'm still not over getting used to watch the speedo on the center instead of behind the wheel in the model 3
There's a lot of people saying different versions of "change is a good thing" but there's a key ingredient which is missing from that idea "Change, with purpose, is a good thing". Not all things that are old and ubiquitous need reimagining. Should we question the status quo often? Definitely. Should we change without good reason? No
@@lapistaoftheparadise4627 "Looking cool" is not the main function of the steering wheel. thats like changing the shape of the wheel because "it looks cool"
@@pawanyadav9854 yeah but it's a good thing to look cool. And that's a bad example, changing the steering wheel wont make the car undrivable, it might just need a getting used to it
The reason for the change is that the car is made for full self driving. If the car drives, you don't need to care about stocks, signaling or anything else. (I am fully aware Tesla is not there yet)
Yokes are good on aircraft because: 1. The yoke never has to be turned more than 90 degrees. If it’s turned more than 30 degrees then something extraordinary is happening. 2. Buttons can be placed in the thumb position on top of each side of the yoke so that operations, such as autopilot disengage and push-to-talk for the radio can be done through physical memory without the pilot having to look at the yoke or feel around for the buttons. 3. Because the control column must be pulled and pushed. The yoke provides something to reliably grab onto for the pilot to change the pitch of the aircraft via the control column. A car has no such need.
@@user-yj4qz5lo6k Because even on the most aggressive tracks, an F1 car for instance, only requires about a 20 degree front wheel steering angle. Because of this, their steering wheel range of motion is only about 300 degrees from left lock to right lock. Race cars don't have to maneuver in parking lots or parking garages, make u-turns, parallel park, or make 3 point turns. Because of this, that lock to lock turn can be much smaller, and a race car driver can keep their hands in the same position for all turns, without crossing their arms. A street car, and specifically the Tesla, has a 900 degree steering wheel range from left lock to right lock. For that kind of wide range, and for parking and tight maneuvering, a yoke becomes completely impractical since you can't park or make a u-turrn or 3 point turn by keeping both hands in the wheel. It's like asking why cars don't roll on square wheels vs. round ones. Round ones are much more efficient. Also, race cars used to all have round wheels. A lot of them, like rally cars, and off-road race trucks, which require a lot of steering input, still have round wheels. Even F1 cars used to have round wheels. But as cars got lower and lower and visibility became more of a problem, they designed lower and lower profile steering wheels to clear the drivers' legs while providing forward visibility. The Model S is not a foot off the ground and it definitely needs a lot of steering input in urban driving, which is why the yoke is completely impractical and just a gimmick.
Which is exactly why you won’t need to rotate the wheel nearly as much on these Tesla’s in oder to effectively steer. These cars are intended to use a steer-by-wire system, massively reducing the lock-to-lock ratio to as close to 1:1 as is practically possible. It will also dynamically adjust this ratio based on the driver’s preferences and the speed of the vehicle.
1 problem with the buttons instead of stalks is that stalks dont move when your turning the wheel you always know where they are where as with buttons they can be upside down and on oposite sides from where they normally are which could really mess you up
Absolutely! Exactly what I was thinking. If you are already on a left curve and your yoke is 90 degrees to the left and you want to signal that you are going to make a left turn, the turn signals are on the bottom of the yoke and you have to press the "down" arrow to indicate a left turn. That's hard to get used to and will result in mistakes. And the horn is worse: people won't be able to find the horn in turns and that could result in an accident if you need to warn other drivers in an emergency. I wouldn't even be surprised if NHTSA makes them recall the cars for this reason and install stalks.
Another reason controls on the stalks is better, is that you can trigger them without looking down. With buttons, you'd have to look down at your steering to make sure you've hit the right button.
The real worry is safety. In the event of a near accident, your instinct would be to swerve the car to avoid danger. With a yoke you got a 50/50 shot of grabbing the yoke correctly to save yourself.
@@andoryus Indeed with normal driving you should hold the wheel of yoke. But when someone hits you, or you hit a curbe, pothole, the wheel or yoke wil slip out of your hands. A wheel is easy to grab and regain control in any panic situation. A steeringwheel is allways in the same round spot to grab.
@@andoryus ok so that big ass infotainment system they have in the middle is there for u not to touch cus u know ure not suppose to take ur hands off the wheel. Wrong, its a dumb idea n stop tryna act like it isnt. U cant make a hard turn with one hand with a yoke n its gonna back fire n tesla is gonna regret it. We are adults that have been driving for yrs we shouldnt have to drive wit 2 hands on the wheels at all times. So i cant drink water or do anything while the car is movin is a damn crime.
Yeah the yoke is absolutely form over function. Looks great in photos but is a terrible design choice for UX. That applies to almost all of these design choices. You might say it shouldn't matter because the car will be self driving anyway, but if that's the case, why market the 0-60 time? That feature is there to give allure to the driving experience; people want to *drive* fast cars, not be *driven around* in a car that could be fast. Elon saying "all user input is error" is precisely the reason why the design choices are so conflicting here. It's a car that HE wants to be fully autonomous, but is marketed mostly on performance that matters to people who want to drive. Here's a thought: if you're making a performance car, people will want to drive it, and if that's the case, you shouldn't make it harder to control.
and Why? How is the yoke better. If the yoke design was so good all cars would have them , Its just for the sake of being different and being "innovative" when I drive I like to put my hands where I want and the fact that it blocks the instrument panel is just an excuse.
Exactly. I want to be able to drive it as well as have it drive. I want both experiences to be good. I also absolutely hate the idea that it chooses forward or reverse for you. Either I'm driving or it is.
The yoke can easily work, many cars already do this but: All you need to do to make the Yoke work is increase how far the wheels turn at lower speeds. BMW, Audi, MB, etc all do this already. This completely removes the need to turn the wheel so much at lower speeds to do things like U-turns, and obviously at higher speeds you don’t need to turn the wheel as much. Honestly, I’m more surprised they didn’t do this than I am that they actually shipped with the yoke wheel.
I have to say that I hate using a touch screen while driving. Please stop removing analog controls and even better bring some of them back (I am looking at you A/C controls). I don't even understand how these cars are street legal at this point since it is illegal to use your phone but legal to go through menus on a 15inch screen to activate the windshield blades.
@@PlaidZoomer I'm not buying this argument. If you want to change the AC for example, with plain old analog buttons you know exactly where they are and you can feel them so you can keep looking at the road for the most part. With touchscreens you don't get this haptic feedback, meaning you can't tell what you're actually doing without looking at the screen. This gets even worse when you have to navigate through different menus to change something.
The Yoke wheel is absolutely ridiculous. There is a very good reason why even performance manufacturers such as the likes of Porsche and Ferrari do not have something as stupid as this.
People said IPhone was stupid for removing the earphone jack, fast-forward a couple of years later airpods are the highest selling earphones and most high end phones don't have earphone jacks anymore. This will be the same, a lot of cars will have this type of steering wheel a couple of years from now
@@tomyflowers5391 I completely disagree. This is not in any way shape or form comparable to Apple removing the headphone jack on a PHONE. This ‘Yoke’ style of wheel has been around in motorsport for many years, yet have you ever seen a Porsche with this style of wheel? Absolutely not. As Marques said, in motorsport, the wheel is only ever turned a marginal amount compared with the 900 degrees needed in everyday driving. Tesla have simply sacrificed ease of use over the aesthetics.
@@tomyflowers5391 that's because the whole industry followed this "quick money grab" trend. Create the problem by removing a 5 dollar device - solve the problem by offering this shiny 100+ dollar solution - get a lot of money by the majority of users who don't have much choice/or like to follow this "futuristic trends".
The yoke might just be the worst idea tesla has had yet. It's pretty clear they looked at racing wheels and thought they looked cool. But they missed the reason why race cars have square steering wheels. To be able to see whats going on on the dash at a glance. Thing is, you just do not need to do that in a street car. It's just impractical. And don't get me started on killing the stalks. Ferrari has tried that for 20 years and they just can't figure it out, so I doubt tesla will do any better. There's very good reasons for physical controls
Bad idea. Should offer the option for a round wheel. Also bad idea for the horn button. Most people don’t use the horn frequently and will not be able to practice or “train” themselves using the horn button. Usually when one has to use the horn, it’s in a stressful situation. My inclination is to hit the center of the wheel to honk.
There is a reason why every road car has a round steering wheel or one that has a flat bottom, it’s a road car, you do a lot of shuffling on the road, race cars and so on have a square wheel because they don’t take their hands of the wheel, like they have 2 set places to grab it and that’s it, every supercar and hypercar has a round steering wheel for a reason
The shape of the wheel is what's a bad idea. I'm sorry but if you need to make a U-turn or any kind of sharp turn, parallel park, etc missing half of the wheel is dangerous.
Valid, but the "plaid" edition is meant to be the sportiest of the S line, so I could see that as a rationalization and don't disagree...however I still think a yoke is...not a great option.
I think I would like it if it didn’t fully rotate, more like a race car. Where I point the wheel is where I’m going. but the full rotation seems like it would give room for error.
@@samuelrodriguez6684 There is already tech in BMWs or Audis, Mercedes where if you go slow you dont have to turn the steering wheel as much as if you go faster.
My physics teacher in high school once told a story to my class about how impractical it was to have a steering wheel button for the air horn. If you were turning, you could miss the button because it wasn't on its usual side. Car companies eventually did what we have now with the horn always being in the middle of the steering wheel. No idea how Tesla didn't think of that.
Honking the horn in the middle of the wheel is the easiest way I agree. When I've been in a car that doesn't do that I will struggle to find it; when needed quickly.
My dad’s old car had a rubber strip all the way around the inside of the steering wheel that you would squeeze to honk the horn. It was a really bad design because every time you tense up because of the traffic you would accidentally honk the horn.
So far, I've only heard defenders say the yoke is "fine 95% of the time" or "you get used to it." I have yet to hear anyone say how the yoke improves the driving experience. Even Musk doesn't expound on how it's better. He just says it's "great imo" (what else would he say?). It's one thing to radically change something that actually improves automaking. It's another to radically change something that makes driving more difficult.
The feature is called "Auto Shift out of Park." Meaning that the car will only automatically shift when it is parked. So if you want to back out of a parking stall the car can automatically shift into reverse, but you have to manually put it in drive. If you want to do a 3-point turn or parallel park, all the shifting is done manually.
the yoke is highkey dangerous its def going to cause more accidents minor and possibly major. only reason they didn't is to create an even more one off experience of a telsa to make it feel special like Disney.
On the section about talking about "palming" the steering wheel... I impressed the instructor in my driving class going through a slalom and fanning the wheel back and forth to go around the cones. He literally said "excellent work palming the wheel"
They are moving away from stock to touchscreen to make it seem like an advancement, but the physical stocks will always be better in my opinion…. I really don’t want the machine to guess what I wanna do
F1 steering yokes lock at 90 degrees, don't they? And they provide the sharpest turning at full lock. The F1 track in Montreal definitely has a 180 degree turn, so F1 cars can definitely turn more sharply than Model S with the yoke.
The steering is not locked at 90, it can do 180 on each side. What they will change for tracks with tight corner like monaco is the sensitivity of the steering. Depending on the track turning the yoke 45° will not always turn the front wheels the same amount
the tightest turn in f1 is the Monaco turn 6, Grand Hotel Hairpin, and that’s the only time most of the drivers let go of their steering wheel to turn it to the maximum(270 degrees turn of the steering wheel). The steering wheels for Monaco are typically made slightly different than the rest of the year, because of the possibility of knocking/hitting a button in that turn. Though there are plenty of other hairpin turns, none as extreme as that requiring a over hand steering.
I'm convinced this is unsafe, I hope regulators crack down on these foolish decisions before someone gets injured or killed because they couldn't control the car sufficiently during a split second decision.
I feel like Mark has more understanding about steering wheel dynamics. It shows he has more experience with driving because of how perfectly he described the steering scenarios
Try using it in Europe, where we mostly use runabouts instead of intersections. After trying to blink into, and then out from the first runabout, while still in a steep turn, you'll know the answer. It's a really bad idea.. The blinker buttons also keep shifting positions depending on the angle of the yoke, and will sometimes even be inverted. It's impossible to operate without taking your eyes off the road. Also, in a critical situation, you might have a split second to hit the horn to warn someone, but now the horn button keeps shifting position as well, depending on the angle of the yoke, and by the time you've looked down to find it and press it, the accident might already have happened. It's a bad design that compromises safety. It's all about cost-cutting. Stalks and a physical horn button in the middle are better suited for these things, as they will always be in the same position, and therefore allows you to use muscle memory to operate, with no need to take your eyes off the road. And don't get me started on the windshield wipers that were introduced in the model 3.. Same thing...
The problem with the buttons and this whole yolk design is that it's not meant for something that's turned all the way like in a regular car. It's in race cars and shit because if the drivers take their hands off the wheel at all the car can flip at 200 mph. They're not doing hand over hand turns or anything. In a normal car now you have the problem that you can't turn on your turn signal nearly as easily because where that button is CHANGES depending on what you're doing. Same with the rest of them. The stocks for turn signals and whipers and stuff don't change position while you're turning so you always know how to access them. And besides that, hand over hand turns with this whole square wheel is dumb.
@@DodInTheSky I just mean if you’re reaching over to do something or fiddle with the screen and a deer is in front of you, people just panic and grab the wheel they shouldn’t have to navigate this dumb design
The biggest issue I see with the yoke is during an accident. Havin the ability to grab the wheel while spinning would be something that I could see being a problem. I ordered a cybertruck and am interested to see how it goes.
It works only on park (if you park it against a wall). If you bring your car in the parking spot and then remove your seatbelt, then the car will automatically go into park. And if you come back to you car and put on your seatbelt, the car will automatically go into drive (if the wall is in front, it will go in reverse). It does not work in a parallel parking. But I still prefer shifting manually
@@Eyeahmdarck66 You seem to forget that I have to share the road with people who drive these things and won't be turning that off. I don't trust it period. And the other options look horrendous to actually use.
Also, with having buttons on a moving steering wheel, what happens when you need to flick one while your wheel isn't straight, eg trying to indicate off of a roundabout, or exiting a driveway with a sharp turn
Nothing for me, 90% of driving time I rest one hand on top of the wheel. It’s simply the most relaxed position for long straights on the highway with small adjustments, while being able to yank the wheel quickly in an emergency. That’s just impossible with a yoke…
I can totally see being able to get used to no stocks on the steering wheel, but I've had a driver's license for 40 years and I ALWAYS use the entire round wheel while making a turn 90 degrees and beyond. I would NEVER buy a car with a yoke steering wheel! This is just a case of Elon getting stuck on thinking that it's cool. Classic form over function!
Certain standards don't exist because we've "always done them" or trained them to be that way. It's literally easier to glance down then back up from gauges that are directly in front of you because you're moving your gaze in one direction without needing to move your head downwards and to the side in or to look at the screen in the dash. It's literally more efficient, and safer to gaze downwards a shorter distance than it is to look away from where your head usually faces.
Speedometer mounted in the centre has been a thing for at least 60 years. Take Moris Mini as an example. I can also remember that many models had it in the 90’s
10:46 Elon, on the automatic reverse-gear selector: _"All input is errors. If you have to do something that the car could've done already, that should be taken care of, the software should just do it."_ Y'know for someone who believes that Artificial Intelligence can potentially cause extinction-level events towards humans, Elon sure does put a lot of faith in AI... and _forces_ his users to trust in that faith...
There isnt any forcing going on here. You can turn the setting off. It also only selects the gear when you are parked, assuming you have the feature enabled at all.
Parallel parking seems to be a huge issue here, in big cities, there are sometimes tricky spots where you would want to switch forward and reverse multiple times before you are accurately parked in the spot. And beginner drivers will definitely need more than a few moves before getting in a spot. Then all the guessing bits, it seems scary that if it guesses wrong, it would slam the car into another car, or into the wall...
Gear selection problem to solve: You're pulling into a parking spot and stop, but then realize "oh i im not far enough into the spot, i need to move forward a little more". does it FWD or R? you keep saying square but the yoke is more of a rectangle. will they change how strong the turning is? how will it know? hand over hand turning is natural for everyone. rectangle yoke is a bad design. touchscreen controls suck. i dont want them in a car. having dedicated stalks / switches / buttons is great!. my car has a volume knob on the stereo in the middle, and there are digital buttons on the steering wheel. i use the knob for rapid muting and the buttons for individual changes. both are good.
In some places they teach drivers to steer by keeping your hands basically at the sides of the wheel, but shuffling it clockwise or counterclockwise, no hand over hand. I think one of the reasons is that having your arm in front of the airbag when it goes off can be dangerous, injuring your arm directly, or injuring your face by slamming your arm into your face. The yoke steering wheel basically forces you into hand over hand.
The biggest problem with the buttons are that they move with the wheel. Meaning if you are turning a bend and then need to indicate, you’d need to press the opposite way.. a bit like controlling a radio controlled car that’s driving towards you 😂. It’s just a bad idea, and I really hope they sell a version without the yoke.
We have talked about upgrading from our Bolt to a Model S, but the yoke is almost single-handedly a deal killer. More importantly, the idea of taking buttons or levers I can actuate by feel and changing to them something that requires me to take my eyes off the road is creating distracted driving. No thanks.
I think the parallel parking is a non-issue if it has auto park. If I'm in a car with auto park, I am absolutely not wasting my time trying to do it so I'd be activating the auto park regardless.
The only way the yoke could possibly work would be to make the steering ratio far more aggressive such that the driver never needs to do a hand over hand turn, but of course the down side to that is that if someone sneezes while driving they are likely to end up in a wall. When all is said and done the yoke doesn't reasonably fix any problems. An easier fix would be to just add a HUD like many automakers are doing.
@@GTAmaniac1 they should implement adaptive power steering. If low speed manoeuvrability ends up being an issue, they could fix it with with a software update.
the car guessing what direction you want to drive in sounds like an absolute nightmare from a usability standpoint and an engineering standpoint. not even worth implementing. it will be interesting to see how it actually works and how often it fails.
So MKBHD has never been in a Prius? That’s where I got used to not having the usual screens behind the wheel, but in the center of the front console. Not really a big deal after a few mins.
@@masterdinosawr Its a bit surprising. I'm not sure if he has never used uber of lyft, but for some reason when I use them, the majority tend to be Prius models. Also know a few people who own them.
@@joits that's true. Idk if the new model Prius have the centre screens or if it's just the older gens. That being said he's from NYC so he would train and uber as well to get around. But he does have his own car and I don't think he was into cars before his Tesla. He's a technology guy not a car guy.
With the prediction of drive/reverse etc, i just dont see how that isnt going to be annoying, or even unsafe. There are a bunch of situations where a computer could think you want to do certain things but there are really other options that you want to do. I dont want to fight my car to do what i want with it. In emergency situations where there may be an obstruction in the road, or even a tree is going to fall in front of my car, I want to just change and reverse or move, not override the decision my car wants to make with a thin little line on my screen.
The combination of the yoke and the touch buttons seem like a nightmare, not even F1 cars have touch sensitive buttons, they reduce the area you have to hold, make it a weird shape then add areas that turn on indicators, wipers and horns if you touch them. There's gonna be a lot of plaid drivers doing weird stuff on the roads
The yoke steering without stocks? Worst possible idea ever. It is now IMPOSSIBLE to turn or react to something without tripping over your own hands and having your hands on the steering wheel at all times is such backwards thinking. How the hell are you going to have a “light hold” on a turn button WHILE YOURE TURNING?! Elon screwed up on this. Someone needs to make a stock steering wheel for the new Tesla’s.
As someone who is interested in buying a tesla this type of change is what is putting me off getting one. Tesla is literally trying to reinvent the wheel even though it would not improve the functionality of the product. If anything this yoke wheel, the removal of the sticks for blinkers and wipers and removing analog controls for functionality which needs to be easily accessed only makes the experience with the product worse. I would buy a tesla in a heartbeat if they would stop making changes for the sake of change(and act like they know better when they do so) and maybe improve their designs to be a bit more repair friendly.
The only way I can see the yoke working is if the wheel turn is proportional to the speed. So at low speed you can do full lock without crossing hands, but as the speed increases you have less turning circle so the wheel is less sensitive at high speeds.
The Yoke steering wheel is illegal in every EU country plus the UK / Norway (big Tesla market) / Switzerland etc as the law says you have to hold your hands at "10" and "2" when driving, wonder how Tesla will work around that.
The new steering wheel is a bad idea (I know they want to remove the top section to allow un-interrupt viewing of the screen)... This steering literally breaks one of the fundamental rules that they teach you at driving school, that is you should never cross your hand when you are turning. Yoke type wheel works on other model of transport like airplanes or Formula 1 car because on airplanes and F1 car the control is tune to be ultra sensitive and you never need to turn more then 90 degrees. But a day to day car, you often need to turn the steering way more then that.
I agree with Marques; steering wheel would be a bigger learning curve (probably horrible to use in daily driving) and touch buttons on the steering wheel would be less of a learning curve (probably not that bad after getting used to it).
personally, When holding the wheel I rest my hand on the top of the steering wheel, With the yoke steering wheel this would be annoying but I guess third parties will make an accessory that you attach to the steering wheel to make it normal
"... the only reason they're standards is because we've been doing them for so long" Sure, sometimes, but other times there's a good reason some standards have emerged. I'm really happy that Tesla reexamined everything from the ground up in building a car. I love the big touchscreen and I don't really miss the dozen different buttons and dials and shit, but with past changes, they could demonstrate some benefit or tradeoff for blowing up the the existing orthodoxy and doing something different. However with the steering wheel, I've seen no benefit offered other than it looks like an F1 car (which to me, subjectively, is a negative thing).
He acts kinda awkward and his voice feels rigid and forced. No offense to him but yea just for a podcast style video like this I feel like he was asked to do it and was too awkward and nervous to say no and now he like doesn’t know how to talk to a mic very well and he’s stuck having to do it :/
I don't think it's Andrew Manganelli's fault. Marques is constantly trying to talk over him, and even when he's not, Marques is not really listening to Andrew, but thinking of the next point he wants to make. Plus Marques is his boss, so Andrew always gives way to him. It makes Andrew seem weak and without an opinion, but I don't think it's actually his fault. I think he's reacting to the way Marques treats him.
Resting my hand on the wheel or yoke will be a problem. I love one spoke steering wheel on old Citroen, but my fav steering wheels are one the bmw i3 and Honda E. Two spoke, perfectly round wheels are for me the best. I can hold it normally and I can rest my hand on the top or the bottom of the wheel if I want to.
My driving instructor taught me to hold the steering wheel at the top-middle when *backing up*. This was because he knew most people use their right/other hand and arm to position themselves to look backwards. He also said to look backwards and not to trust the back-up camera. From this segment, it's clear that Tesla is creating their own fundamentals when it comes to driving a car, I guess similar to how Apple creates their own way to navigate electronic devices (e.g.: iPad cursors have different pointing fundamentals than the traditional cursor). In theory that's fine, but as is pointed out in this episode, learning different fundamentals becomes dangerous when it comes to lethal weapons such as cars. How much negative attention might this bring to Tesla when someone inevitably crashes with the new yoke steering "wheel?"
I really don’t get the argument of not trusting a back-up camera. I’ve been driving cars that have this for years now and I’ve never needed to look backwards. It takes some getting used to, yes, but it’s a better solution in literally every way. You suddenly have a point of view from the very rear of your car not obstructed by luggage/occupants/parts of the car. Camera + mirrors is a fantastic quality of life improvement over looking backwards.
When I got my license last year, multiple instructors told me not to turn around while driving. Use mirrors and cameras and sensors. With today’s cars it’s not necessary to turn back, and personally I feel I lose more control when I try to do so.
@@37racso it's possible he was more concerned with dept perception? Or maybe greater periphery awareness for contexts like backing out of a driveway where there are multiple cars? Maybe he also was aware that some drivers still may own sensorless cars. I do, so it's relatively mandatory that I look backwards. Again, that suggests Tesla's driving ergonomics are based more around sensors, like how Elon said "any input is error." Maybe the yoke steering is suggesting all the driver needs to do is face forwards in the new Teslas.
In formula one turns do go unto 200 degree and more, usually max 180 in hairpins but the reasons you can get away with a yoke steering wheel is due to the steering ratio, which is insanely high in a single seater compared to road cars
This unsymmetrical yoke triggers my OCD, especially during a turn, and this haptic button business is ridiculous. I already have a hard enough time trying the find the correct buttons on my current steering wheel for my radio and dashboard controls when I'm turning the wheel. What's going to happen when more important buttons are placed there instead. I'll end up hitting the wrong button because they have changed position. Now, regarding haptic buttons, that sounds terrible. If it were at least a physical click button, you could place your finger over it and touch it without pushing it if you're anticipating that you're going to push it. But with haptic, if you even put your finger over it and lightly touch it, you'll engage the button. Placing your important and most often used function buttons so far away from arms reach is also stupid, not to mention missing your target a lot of the time.
Every car should be required to have a HUD for the speedometer. It is so much safer to not have to take your eyes off of the road to check your speed. The radio and HVAC controls should be clicky buttons and dials you can operate without looking. Sometimes I have to use the turn signals while steering, how would a button on the steering wheel work then?
There is a reason cars have had wheels for 100 years, it’s the best tool for the job. I personally dislike Tesla’s particularly because you have to use the touch screen for everything, sometimes a knob or switch is better and safer, not taking your attention away from driving. If you could not get a wheel I would not purchase the car, and it’s illegal in many states including my state New York.
Yoke steering wheels are designed for race cars because they go in corners very fast and have a lower steering angle which is only 360° to make it easier for the drivers, but the cost is that it is way more sensitive, so it doesnt fit for a road car. The problem with tesla's implementation of the yoke is that it still has a normal steering angle which is around 900° which makes it hard for sharp turns
Imagine having two Teslas, Model 3 and S Plaid. You get use to Model 3 by looking 45 degree right and then you use S Plaid you again have to get use to yoke steering and no right and left blinkers. So it would be impossible for a person to get use to both at same time! I believe a company should have same standards among all its cars.
Turn signals as buttons will be terrible in Europe because you have to signal right before you exit a roundabout so you could have the wheel turned and find yourself searching for the turn signal buttons.
I can think of a few cars that don't have any dash indicators behind the wheel. The Toyota Yaris around 2007, most if not all MINI Cooper and Countryman of the last 10 years or so
I'm surprised at the fact that turn signals and other stock controls as buttons is new to so many people. Ferrari were like the first to do this more than a decade ago. Think it first appeared on the 458 and over time they put more buttons on the wheel
The auto drive shift (or whatever they call it), is only active at the start of your drive from park. It doesn't work with any other scenario, unless you are parking between your stops in a 3 point turn.
sorry but your slight glance to the right makes you more vulnerable on your left side as your peripheral vision shifts too. looking down you can still have a chance to see if something is coming at you on your left.
I think the buttons are great, capacitive is more sensitve of course so that may take some getting used to as an accidental press will probably be more common. but for drive selection think of all of the vehicles that have different drive selectors. Some have a stalk, some have a "shifter", some have a knob.
Remember, the buttons on the steering wheel are force touch for different functions like single windshield wipe or full-on turn the wipers on, and they also have haptic feedback like your smartphone. I think the issues you're concerned about will go away after you drive it for a few days.
The yoke steering wheel, I'll wait until they eventually come out with an option for a regular steering wheel. Think something like that should be used on a sports car. I can imagine how uncomfortably it would be driving long distance with a yoke steering wheel. The steering wheel gear selector I feel like eventually Tesla is going to bring back. For daily use, its just impractical to use the screen to override the gear selector. Certain things doesn't need to be changed.
i’ve actually tried driving and NOT using the top part of the steering wheel and it’s totally doable. BUT you need to learn to shuffle steer. It’s also way safer, because you won’t cross your arms, in case the airbag deploys. Google shuffle steering.
14:40 The thing is that the term for it is guessing. He's an engineer at heart, so he would be unlikely to use another term. In a way it is not great for PR, though.
You guys basically get it. I'm a private pilot. I know from yokes. Fine on an airplane, on a car ... not so much. In an AC the L/R deflection is typically only a few degrees. Full deflection L/R is only about 90 degrees either way, and the only time you see full deflection is in preflight while checking control deflection, while taxiing to counter winds, or while doing aerobatics ... and then you'd rather be flying a stick. So ... make mine a proper wheel.
I'm a pilot and don't like the yoke at all on a car. In an airplane you initiate the turn, by rotating the yoke around 30 to 45 degrees, then back to neutral. To level the wings you rotate back the other way, then back to neutral. In a car you rotate the steering wheel more than 360 degrees. It looks cool, but the yoke is the wrong tool for the job.
yea exactly. In the 172 I fly, I rarely rotate the yoke more than 45 degrees like you said. At the most, its 90 degrees.
I dont understand how tesla would have thought this was a good idea. Its even worse when you realize that teslas headquarters is at hawthorn airport. They could have walked outside, and have noticed that aircraft yokes don't rotate the same amount as a car.
it's going to end up like that, Elon confirmed that they're working on steer-by-wire system that will make more like an aircrafts
@@loweflyer7778 lol chill they know what they're doing, that steering system is coming to Teslas , it's just not ready yet
@@optimusprime844 if it's not ready why did they put it on these cars? As far as we know, they don't have any hardware that would alow for steer by wire systems.
@@loweflyer7778 Tesla's marketing are all about the buzz they can create by making people talk about them, like literally the video we're watching. So they'll make ridiculous decisions on everything we see normal, and convince us to try and get used to it. I'm still not over getting used to watch the speedo on the center instead of behind the wheel in the model 3
There's a lot of people saying different versions of "change is a good thing" but there's a key ingredient which is missing from that idea "Change, with purpose, is a good thing". Not all things that are old and ubiquitous need reimagining. Should we question the status quo often? Definitely. Should we change without good reason? No
It look cool, that good enough reason
@@lapistaoftheparadise4627 "Looking cool" is not the main function of the steering wheel. thats like changing the shape of the wheel because "it looks cool"
@@pawanyadav9854 yeah but it's a good thing to look cool. And that's a bad example, changing the steering wheel wont make the car undrivable, it might just need a getting used to it
The reason for the change is that the car is made for full self driving. If the car drives, you don't need to care about stocks, signaling or anything else. (I am fully aware Tesla is not there yet)
@@lapistaoftheparadise4627 not sure if you're trolling or serious
Yokes are good on aircraft because:
1. The yoke never has to be turned more than 90 degrees. If it’s turned more than 30 degrees then something extraordinary is happening.
2. Buttons can be placed in the thumb position on top of each side of the yoke so that operations, such as autopilot disengage and push-to-talk for the radio can be done through physical memory without the pilot having to look at the yoke or feel around for the buttons.
3. Because the control column must be pulled and pushed. The yoke provides something to reliably grab onto for the pilot to change the pitch of the aircraft via the control column. A car has no such need.
I agree 110%
Exactly. +1
Why do race cars use them? 🏎
@@user-yj4qz5lo6k Because even on the most aggressive tracks, an F1 car for instance, only requires about a 20 degree front wheel steering angle. Because of this, their steering wheel range of motion is only about 300 degrees from left lock to right lock. Race cars don't have to maneuver in parking lots or parking garages, make u-turns, parallel park, or make 3 point turns. Because of this, that lock to lock turn can be much smaller, and a race car driver can keep their hands in the same position for all turns, without crossing their arms. A street car, and specifically the Tesla, has a 900 degree steering wheel range from left lock to right lock. For that kind of wide range, and for parking and tight maneuvering, a yoke becomes completely impractical since you can't park or make a u-turrn or 3 point turn by keeping both hands in the wheel. It's like asking why cars don't roll on square wheels vs. round ones. Round ones are much more efficient. Also, race cars used to all have round wheels. A lot of them, like rally cars, and off-road race trucks, which require a lot of steering input, still have round wheels. Even F1 cars used to have round wheels. But as cars got lower and lower and visibility became more of a problem, they designed lower and lower profile steering wheels to clear the drivers' legs while providing forward visibility. The Model S is not a foot off the ground and it definitely needs a lot of steering input in urban driving, which is why the yoke is completely impractical and just a gimmick.
Which is exactly why you won’t need to rotate the wheel nearly as much on these Tesla’s in oder to effectively steer. These cars are intended to use a steer-by-wire system, massively reducing the lock-to-lock ratio to as close to 1:1 as is practically possible. It will also dynamically adjust this ratio based on the driver’s preferences and the speed of the vehicle.
1 problem with the buttons instead of stalks is that stalks dont move when your turning the wheel you always know where they are where as with buttons they can be upside down and on oposite sides from where they normally are which could really mess you up
Yeah for example putting on a blinker to exit a roundabout while the steering wheel is turned 180 degrees is going to cause trouble.
This! Tesla is all about safety, but then they do stuff like this. Yoke is one (bad) thing, but this makes even a round wheel option not help!
Absolutely! Exactly what I was thinking. If you are already on a left curve and your yoke is 90 degrees to the left and you want to signal that you are going to make a left turn, the turn signals are on the bottom of the yoke and you have to press the "down" arrow to indicate a left turn. That's hard to get used to and will result in mistakes. And the horn is worse: people won't be able to find the horn in turns and that could result in an accident if you need to warn other drivers in an emergency. I wouldn't even be surprised if NHTSA makes them recall the cars for this reason and install stalks.
Agree the no stalks is more annoying than the yoke
Another reason controls on the stalks is better, is that you can trigger them without looking down. With buttons, you'd have to look down at your steering to make sure you've hit the right button.
I bet someone is already thinking of an adapter to make it a full circle. Business opportunity... 😁
Apparently they're on ebay rn
Maybe 3D print some segments!
Is just the square bottom that i don't like
Maybe we'll come full circle when that happens
company: does what your comment says,
also company: S T O N K S
The real worry is safety. In the event of a near accident, your instinct would be to swerve the car to avoid danger. With a yoke you got a 50/50 shot of grabbing the yoke correctly to save yourself.
@@andoryus That's the problem, it's not a wheel, it's a yoke.
@@andoryus Indeed with normal driving you should hold the wheel of yoke. But when someone hits you, or you hit a curbe, pothole, the wheel or yoke wil slip out of your hands. A wheel is easy to grab and regain control in any panic situation. A steeringwheel is allways in the same round spot to grab.
The horn is a big problem as well. It is now a very small button above the turn signal button which is very hard to use when you need it.
@@andoryus ok so that big ass infotainment system they have in the middle is there for u not to touch cus u know ure not suppose to take ur hands off the wheel. Wrong, its a dumb idea n stop tryna act like it isnt. U cant make a hard turn with one hand with a yoke n its gonna back fire n tesla is gonna regret it. We are adults that have been driving for yrs we shouldnt have to drive wit 2 hands on the wheels at all times. So i cant drink water or do anything while the car is movin is a damn crime.
Oh _COMON!!!_ People will adapt to the yoke _plenty_ quick if they experience several emergency maneuvers a day!
Yeah the yoke is absolutely form over function. Looks great in photos but is a terrible design choice for UX. That applies to almost all of these design choices. You might say it shouldn't matter because the car will be self driving anyway, but if that's the case, why market the 0-60 time? That feature is there to give allure to the driving experience; people want to *drive* fast cars, not be *driven around* in a car that could be fast.
Elon saying "all user input is error" is precisely the reason why the design choices are so conflicting here. It's a car that HE wants to be fully autonomous, but is marketed mostly on performance that matters to people who want to drive. Here's a thought: if you're making a performance car, people will want to drive it, and if that's the case, you shouldn't make it harder to control.
and Why? How is the yoke better. If the yoke design was so good all cars would have them , Its just for the sake of being different and being "innovative" when I drive I like to put my hands where I want and the fact that it blocks the instrument panel is just an excuse.
@@davidhein6044 I feel Tesla does these things for the sake of being different, there's no real reason to have a yoke
Yeah exactly well said mate exactly well said.
Exactly. I want to be able to drive it as well as have it drive. I want both experiences to be good. I also absolutely hate the idea that it chooses forward or reverse for you. Either I'm driving or it is.
The yoke can easily work, many cars already do this but:
All you need to do to make the Yoke work is increase how far the wheels turn at lower speeds. BMW, Audi, MB, etc all do this already. This completely removes the need to turn the wheel so much at lower speeds to do things like U-turns, and obviously at higher speeds you don’t need to turn the wheel as much.
Honestly, I’m more surprised they didn’t do this than I am that they actually shipped with the yoke wheel.
I have to say that I hate using a touch screen while driving. Please stop removing analog controls and even better bring some of them back (I am looking at you A/C controls). I don't even understand how these cars are street legal at this point since it is illegal to use your phone but legal to go through menus on a 15inch screen to activate the windshield blades.
No stock which are so easy to use replaced with touch buttons on the horrible yoke. Wow what a bad idea accidental presses anyone?
Yeah it's absurd, plus analog buttons feel so satisfying in addition to being more safe.
Thank you! Let’s preach it more.
There's a learning curve. most people get used to it in a week.
@@PlaidZoomer I'm not buying this argument. If you want to change the AC for example, with plain old analog buttons you know exactly where they are and you can feel them so you can keep looking at the road for the most part. With touchscreens you don't get this haptic feedback, meaning you can't tell what you're actually doing without looking at the screen. This gets even worse when you have to navigate through different menus to change something.
Even buttons are okay, but touch sensitive buttons on a steering wheel is just hard.
Wet hands and gloves are going to be issues on a capacitive button. Wtf Elon
accidental presses
They are slowly turning into Apple...
@@L1ft0ff That was my first thought.
@@L1ft0ff good, Apple has great products.
The Yoke wheel is absolutely ridiculous. There is a very good reason why even performance manufacturers such as the likes of Porsche and Ferrari do not have something as stupid as this.
People said IPhone was stupid for removing the earphone jack, fast-forward a couple of years later airpods are the highest selling earphones and most high end phones don't have earphone jacks anymore. This will be the same, a lot of cars will have this type of steering wheel a couple of years from now
@@tomyflowers5391 just because it sells, doesn't mean it's not stupid. Apple can make the worst product and still sell.
@@tomyflowers5391 headphone jacks are really not analogous to full ring steering wheels...
@@tomyflowers5391 I completely disagree. This is not in any way shape or form comparable to Apple removing the headphone jack on a PHONE. This ‘Yoke’ style of wheel has been around in motorsport for many years, yet have you ever seen a Porsche with this style of wheel? Absolutely not. As Marques said, in motorsport, the wheel is only ever turned a marginal amount compared with the 900 degrees needed in everyday driving. Tesla have simply sacrificed ease of use over the aesthetics.
@@tomyflowers5391 that's because the whole industry followed this "quick money grab" trend. Create the problem by removing a 5 dollar device - solve the problem by offering this shiny 100+ dollar solution - get a lot of money by the majority of users who don't have much choice/or like to follow this "futuristic trends".
The yoke might just be the worst idea tesla has had yet. It's pretty clear they looked at racing wheels and thought they looked cool.
But they missed the reason why race cars have square steering wheels. To be able to see whats going on on the dash at a glance. Thing is, you just do not need to do that in a street car.
It's just impractical. And don't get me started on killing the stalks. Ferrari has tried that for 20 years and they just can't figure it out, so I doubt tesla will do any better.
There's very good reasons for physical controls
Bad idea. Should offer the option for a round wheel. Also bad idea for the horn button. Most people don’t use the horn frequently and will not be able to practice or “train” themselves using the horn button. Usually when one has to use the horn, it’s in a stressful situation. My inclination is to hit the center of the wheel to honk.
In theory, the button is better. That way you dont have to take your handoff the wheel to honk.
In Daerik video he shows you can use the palm of your hand across the buttons on the right to honk the horn in an emergency.
There is a reason why every road car has a round steering wheel or one that has a flat bottom, it’s a road car, you do a lot of shuffling on the road, race cars and so on have a square wheel because they don’t take their hands of the wheel, like they have 2 set places to grab it and that’s it, every supercar and hypercar has a round steering wheel for a reason
The shape of the wheel is what's a bad idea. I'm sorry but if you need to make a U-turn or any kind of sharp turn, parallel park, etc missing half of the wheel is dangerous.
It turns 90° each way.
@@OnTheRailwayOfficial Yes, but it's still harder and much more unsafe to handle in that fashion.
I feel like it should only be on the roadster and generally two door cars
Valid, but the "plaid" edition is meant to be the sportiest of the S line, so I could see that as a rationalization and don't disagree...however I still think a yoke is...not a great option.
I think I would like it if it didn’t fully rotate, more like a race car. Where I point the wheel is where I’m going. but the full rotation seems like it would give room for error.
They should at least give an option to have a normal steering wheel
Or just race cars with huge steering sensitivity
@@samuelrodriguez6684 There is already tech in BMWs or Audis, Mercedes where if you go slow you dont have to turn the steering wheel as much as if you go faster.
I’d love to see someone drift using the yoke.
So you'd love to see twisted wrists and broken fingers haha
@@DasVoLlHoNk 🤔lol
You like broken wrists huh
Lmaoooo with what ebreak
I am drifting for 30 years "impossible "
My physics teacher in high school once told a story to my class about how impractical it was to have a steering wheel button for the air horn. If you were turning, you could miss the button because it wasn't on its usual side. Car companies eventually did what we have now with the horn always being in the middle of the steering wheel. No idea how Tesla didn't think of that.
Honking the horn in the middle of the wheel is the easiest way I agree. When I've been in a car that doesn't do that I will struggle to find it; when needed quickly.
I don't even understand what's the purpose of NOT putting the horn in the middle. It wouldn't change the look of the steering wheel at all
At this point Tesla just want to be different without acknowledging the customer's safety
My dad’s old car had a rubber strip all the way around the inside of the steering wheel that you would squeeze to honk the horn. It was a really bad design because every time you tense up because of the traffic you would accidentally honk the horn.
So far, I've only heard defenders say the yoke is "fine 95% of the time" or "you get used to it." I have yet to hear anyone say how the yoke improves the driving experience. Even Musk doesn't expound on how it's better. He just says it's "great imo" (what else would he say?). It's one thing to radically change something that actually improves automaking. It's another to radically change something that makes driving more difficult.
A lot of sense thank you
The feature is called "Auto Shift out of Park."
Meaning that the car will only automatically shift when it is parked. So if you want to back out of a parking stall the car can automatically shift into reverse, but you have to manually put it in drive.
If you want to do a 3-point turn or parallel park, all the shifting is done manually.
the yoke is highkey dangerous its def going to cause more accidents minor and possibly major.
only reason they didn't is to create an even more one off experience of a telsa to make it feel special like Disney.
can i just point out that they trust auto driving yet not auto windscreen wipers wtf??
Because auto windscreen wipers often doesn't work well in Teslas?
@@DanCojocaru2000 I mean that's the problem right how do they make the software work for autonomous driving yet can't get the wipers to work properly
Everybody’s mad about the steering “wheel”, when really the lack of a gear selector is the most pressing issue about this car.
🤣
10:46
touch buttons on the yoke too is bad
@@grizzybear9111 and Volkswagen is on that too; look at the ID.x series
Ugh
Let's be real here. Elon played Cyberpunk 2077 and wanted the square steering wheels...
On the section about talking about "palming" the steering wheel...
I impressed the instructor in my driving class going through a slalom and fanning the wheel back and forth to go around the cones. He literally said "excellent work palming the wheel"
They are moving away from stock to touchscreen to make it seem like an advancement, but the physical stocks will always be better in my opinion…. I really don’t want the machine to guess what I wanna do
money $$$
F1 steering yokes lock at 90 degrees, don't they? And they provide the sharpest turning at full lock. The F1 track in Montreal definitely has a 180 degree turn, so F1 cars can definitely turn more sharply than Model S with the yoke.
The steering is not locked at 90, it can do 180 on each side. What they will change for tracks with tight corner like monaco is the sensitivity of the steering. Depending on the track turning the yoke 45° will not always turn the front wheels the same amount
@@northgen1062 Ah, great to know. But they're still never doing a hand-over-hand type turn to get through a 180, right?
the tightest turn in f1 is the Monaco turn 6, Grand Hotel Hairpin, and that’s the only time most of the drivers let go of their steering wheel to turn it to the maximum(270 degrees turn of the steering wheel). The steering wheels for Monaco are typically made slightly different than the rest of the year, because of the possibility of knocking/hitting a button in that turn. Though there are plenty of other hairpin turns, none as extreme as that requiring a over hand steering.
In this video (ca 0:37) you see how much they turn. ua-cam.com/video/SSCF0_qp5is/v-deo.html
I THOUGHT THE VIDEO RESOLUTION DROP BUT THEN THE WIPERS CAME OUT. THATS HILARIOUS
I'm convinced this is unsafe, I hope regulators crack down on these foolish decisions before someone gets injured or killed because they couldn't control the car sufficiently during a split second decision.
I feel like Mark has more understanding about steering wheel dynamics. It shows he has more experience with driving because of how perfectly he described the steering scenarios
Try using it in Europe, where we mostly use runabouts instead of intersections. After trying to blink into, and then out from the first runabout, while still in a steep turn, you'll know the answer. It's a really bad idea..
The blinker buttons also keep shifting positions depending on the angle of the yoke, and will sometimes even be inverted. It's impossible to operate without taking your eyes off the road.
Also, in a critical situation, you might have a split second to hit the horn to warn someone, but now the horn button keeps shifting position as well, depending on the angle of the yoke, and by the time you've looked down to find it and press it, the accident might already have happened. It's a bad design that compromises safety. It's all about cost-cutting.
Stalks and a physical horn button in the middle are better suited for these things, as they will always be in the same position, and therefore allows you to use muscle memory to operate, with no need to take your eyes off the road. And don't get me started on the windshield wipers that were introduced in the model 3.. Same thing...
The problem with the buttons and this whole yolk design is that it's not meant for something that's turned all the way like in a regular car. It's in race cars and shit because if the drivers take their hands off the wheel at all the car can flip at 200 mph. They're not doing hand over hand turns or anything. In a normal car now you have the problem that you can't turn on your turn signal nearly as easily because where that button is CHANGES depending on what you're doing. Same with the rest of them. The stocks for turn signals and whipers and stuff don't change position while you're turning so you always know how to access them. And besides that, hand over hand turns with this whole square wheel is dumb.
Feels super dangerous cuz it’d be a lot harder to quickly grab the wheel in a sudden emergencies.
Grab the wheel in sudden emergencies? Aren't you supposed to always keep both hands on the wheel while driving?
@@DodInTheSky I just mean if you’re reaching over to do something or fiddle with the screen and a deer is in front of you, people just panic and grab the wheel they shouldn’t have to navigate this dumb design
@@DodInTheSky we ask know Tesla drivers are great at that
@@DodInTheSky who the hell keeps hands on the wheel all the time during autopilot?
@@DodInTheSky damn youre think this steering wheel is good? lil fanboy
The biggest issue I see with the yoke is during an accident. Havin the ability to grab the wheel while spinning would be something that I could see being a problem. I ordered a cybertruck and am interested to see how it goes.
hearing about the auto shift made me physically panic. How the hell is this legal.
its in beta lol
And it’s only out of park
It works only on park (if you park it against a wall). If you bring your car in the parking spot and then remove your seatbelt, then the car will automatically go into park. And if you come back to you car and put on your seatbelt, the car will automatically go into drive (if the wall is in front, it will go in reverse). It does not work in a parallel parking. But I still prefer shifting manually
You literally have two other alternatives (screen and console) if you want to disable the feature.
@@Eyeahmdarck66 You seem to forget that I have to share the road with people who drive these things and won't be turning that off. I don't trust it period.
And the other options look horrendous to actually use.
Yes, It serves no purpose and doesn't solve any problems. Nerdy Elon wanted to be Michael Knight
the thing i hate the most is when it guesses which direction you want to go
Also, with having buttons on a moving steering wheel, what happens when you need to flick one while your wheel isn't straight, eg trying to indicate off of a roundabout, or exiting a driveway with a sharp turn
Nothing for me, 90% of driving time I rest one hand on top of the wheel. It’s simply the most relaxed position for long straights on the highway with small adjustments, while being able to yank the wheel quickly in an emergency.
That’s just impossible with a yoke…
I can totally see being able to get used to no stocks on the steering wheel, but I've had a driver's license for 40 years and I ALWAYS use the entire round wheel while making a turn 90 degrees and beyond. I would NEVER buy a car with a yoke steering wheel!
This is just a case of Elon getting stuck on thinking that it's cool. Classic form over function!
Certain standards don't exist because we've "always done them" or trained them to be that way. It's literally easier to glance down then back up from gauges that are directly in front of you because you're moving your gaze in one direction without needing to move your head downwards and to the side in or to look at the screen in the dash. It's literally more efficient, and safer to gaze downwards a shorter distance than it is to look away from where your head usually faces.
Speedometer mounted in the centre has been a thing for at least 60 years. Take Moris Mini as an example. I can also remember that many models had it in the 90’s
My dad's old car had it like that. it looks really weird
10:46 Elon, on the automatic reverse-gear selector: _"All input is errors. If you have to do something that the car could've done already, that should be taken care of, the software should just do it."_ Y'know for someone who believes that Artificial Intelligence can potentially cause extinction-level events towards humans, Elon sure does put a lot of faith in AI... and _forces_ his users to trust in that faith...
BIG difference between AI and machine learning…might want to look into it
There isnt any forcing going on here. You can turn the setting off. It also only selects the gear when you are parked, assuming you have the feature enabled at all.
Parallel parking seems to be a huge issue here, in big cities, there are sometimes tricky spots where you would want to switch forward and reverse multiple times before you are accurately parked in the spot. And beginner drivers will definitely need more than a few moves before getting in a spot.
Then all the guessing bits, it seems scary that if it guesses wrong, it would slam the car into another car, or into the wall...
Love from Nigeria enjoy your content big Fan
Gear selection problem to solve: You're pulling into a parking spot and stop, but then realize "oh i im not far enough into the spot, i need to move forward a little more". does it FWD or R?
you keep saying square but the yoke is more of a rectangle. will they change how strong the turning is? how will it know? hand over hand turning is natural for everyone.
rectangle yoke is a bad design.
touchscreen controls suck. i dont want them in a car. having dedicated stalks / switches / buttons is great!.
my car has a volume knob on the stereo in the middle, and there are digital buttons on the steering wheel.
i use the knob for rapid muting and the buttons for individual changes. both are good.
In some places they teach drivers to steer by keeping your hands basically at the sides of the wheel, but shuffling it clockwise or counterclockwise, no hand over hand. I think one of the reasons is that having your arm in front of the airbag when it goes off can be dangerous, injuring your arm directly, or injuring your face by slamming your arm into your face. The yoke steering wheel basically forces you into hand over hand.
The yoke is stupid for signaling direction. If you're already turned a bit, you'll have to search for the turn signal. So dumb...
This new steering wheel looks like a big april fools’ yoke to me
This entire system seems absolutely horrendous. I hope it isn't as bad as it sounds
The biggest problem with the buttons are that they move with the wheel. Meaning if you are turning a bend and then need to indicate, you’d need to press the opposite way.. a bit like controlling a radio controlled car that’s driving towards you 😂. It’s just a bad idea, and I really hope they sell a version without the yoke.
We have talked about upgrading from our Bolt to a Model S, but the yoke is almost single-handedly a deal killer. More importantly, the idea of taking buttons or levers I can actuate by feel and changing to them something that requires me to take my eyes off the road is creating distracted driving. No thanks.
I think the parallel parking is a non-issue if it has auto park. If I'm in a car with auto park, I am absolutely not wasting my time trying to do it so I'd be activating the auto park regardless.
The only way the yoke could possibly work would be to make the steering ratio far more aggressive such that the driver never needs to do a hand over hand turn, but of course the down side to that is that if someone sneezes while driving they are likely to end up in a wall. When all is said and done the yoke doesn't reasonably fix any problems. An easier fix would be to just add a HUD like many automakers are doing.
I agree with that steering wheel design. Proper hand position is key, especially during accidents.
Yeah but your ability to maneuver at low speed is just gone.
@@GTAmaniac1 they should implement adaptive power steering. If low speed manoeuvrability ends up being an issue, they could fix it with with a software update.
@@DodInTheSky it isn't hard to turn, it's awkward and no amount of adaptive power steering can fix that.
It seems Marques love to embrace new tec always.
the car guessing what direction you want to drive in sounds like an absolute nightmare from a usability standpoint and an engineering standpoint. not even worth implementing. it will be interesting to see how it actually works and how often it fails.
So MKBHD has never been in a Prius? That’s where I got used to not having the usual screens behind the wheel, but in the center of the front console. Not really a big deal after a few mins.
Wouldnt be surprised if he hasnt seen many cars and interiors before. A bunch of Toyotas had the info in the centre including the prius.
@@masterdinosawr Its a bit surprising. I'm not sure if he has never used uber of lyft, but for some reason when I use them, the majority tend to be Prius models. Also know a few people who own them.
@@joits that's true. Idk if the new model Prius have the centre screens or if it's just the older gens. That being said he's from NYC so he would train and uber as well to get around. But he does have his own car and I don't think he was into cars before his Tesla. He's a technology guy not a car guy.
With the prediction of drive/reverse etc, i just dont see how that isnt going to be annoying, or even unsafe. There are a bunch of situations where a computer could think you want to do certain things but there are really other options that you want to do. I dont want to fight my car to do what i want with it. In emergency situations where there may be an obstruction in the road, or even a tree is going to fall in front of my car, I want to just change and reverse or move, not override the decision my car wants to make with a thin little line on my screen.
The combination of the yoke and the touch buttons seem like a nightmare, not even F1 cars have touch sensitive buttons, they reduce the area you have to hold, make it a weird shape then add areas that turn on indicators, wipers and horns if you touch them. There's gonna be a lot of plaid drivers doing weird stuff on the roads
The yoke steering without stocks? Worst possible idea ever. It is now IMPOSSIBLE to turn or react to something without tripping over your own hands and having your hands on the steering wheel at all times is such backwards thinking. How the hell are you going to have a “light hold” on a turn button WHILE YOURE TURNING?! Elon screwed up on this.
Someone needs to make a stock steering wheel for the new Tesla’s.
As someone who is interested in buying a tesla this type of change is what is putting me off getting one. Tesla is literally trying to reinvent the wheel even though it would not improve the functionality of the product. If anything this yoke wheel, the removal of the sticks for blinkers and wipers and removing analog controls for functionality which needs to be easily accessed only makes the experience with the product worse. I would buy a tesla in a heartbeat if they would stop making changes for the sake of change(and act like they know better when they do so) and maybe improve their designs to be a bit more repair friendly.
The only way I can see the yoke working is if the wheel turn is proportional to the speed. So at low speed you can do full lock without crossing hands, but as the speed increases you have less turning circle so the wheel is less sensitive at high speeds.
They could have maybe tried the yolk in the plad and normal one in the long range.
The Yoke steering wheel is illegal in every EU country plus the UK / Norway (big Tesla market) / Switzerland etc as the law says you have to hold your hands at "10" and "2" when driving, wonder how Tesla will work around that.
The new steering wheel is a bad idea (I know they want to remove the top section to allow un-interrupt viewing of the screen)... This steering literally breaks one of the fundamental rules that they teach you at driving school, that is you should never cross your hand when you are turning. Yoke type wheel works on other model of transport like airplanes or Formula 1 car because on airplanes and F1 car the control is tune to be ultra sensitive and you never need to turn more then 90 degrees. But a day to day car, you often need to turn the steering way more then that.
I agree with Marques; steering wheel would be a bigger learning curve (probably horrible to use in daily driving) and touch buttons on the steering wheel would be less of a learning curve (probably not that bad after getting used to it).
personally, When holding the wheel I rest my hand on the top of the steering wheel, With the yoke steering wheel this would be annoying but I guess third parties will make an accessory that you attach to the steering wheel to make it normal
Could a standard wheel not be an option on a car this expensive?
"... the only reason they're standards is because we've been doing them for so long"
Sure, sometimes, but other times there's a good reason some standards have emerged. I'm really happy that Tesla reexamined everything from the ground up in building a car. I love the big touchscreen and I don't really miss the dozen different buttons and dials and shit, but with past changes, they could demonstrate some benefit or tradeoff for blowing up the the existing orthodoxy and doing something different.
However with the steering wheel, I've seen no benefit offered other than it looks like an F1 car (which to me, subjectively, is a negative thing).
Why does everyone dislike the cohost? He really isn’t that bad I don’t get what peoples issue is.
He acts kinda awkward and his voice feels rigid and forced. No offense to him but yea just for a podcast style video like this I feel like he was asked to do it and was too awkward and nervous to say no and now he like doesn’t know how to talk to a mic very well and he’s stuck having to do it :/
Observe how often the cohost says “I” and how often Marques says it. That’s a sign of a great speaker
For me: he says "bottons" like "buh-ins".
I feel like his answers often aren't very relevant/ineresting, so he doesn't add much to the discussion
I don't think it's Andrew Manganelli's fault. Marques is constantly trying to talk over him, and even when he's not, Marques is not really listening to Andrew, but thinking of the next point he wants to make. Plus Marques is his boss, so Andrew always gives way to him. It makes Andrew seem weak and without an opinion, but I don't think it's actually his fault. I think he's reacting to the way Marques treats him.
Resting my hand on the wheel or yoke will be a problem. I love one spoke steering wheel on old Citroen, but my fav steering wheels are one the bmw i3 and Honda E. Two spoke, perfectly round wheels are for me the best. I can hold it normally and I can rest my hand on the top or the bottom of the wheel if I want to.
My driving instructor taught me to hold the steering wheel at the top-middle when *backing up*. This was because he knew most people use their right/other hand and arm to position themselves to look backwards. He also said to look backwards and not to trust the back-up camera.
From this segment, it's clear that Tesla is creating their own fundamentals when it comes to driving a car, I guess similar to how Apple creates their own way to navigate electronic devices (e.g.: iPad cursors have different pointing fundamentals than the traditional cursor). In theory that's fine, but as is pointed out in this episode, learning different fundamentals becomes dangerous when it comes to lethal weapons such as cars. How much negative attention might this bring to Tesla when someone inevitably crashes with the new yoke steering "wheel?"
I really don’t get the argument of not trusting a back-up camera. I’ve been driving cars that have this for years now and I’ve never needed to look backwards. It takes some getting used to, yes, but it’s a better solution in literally every way. You suddenly have a point of view from the very rear of your car not obstructed by luggage/occupants/parts of the car. Camera + mirrors is a fantastic quality of life improvement over looking backwards.
When I got my license last year, multiple instructors told me not to turn around while driving. Use mirrors and cameras and sensors. With today’s cars it’s not necessary to turn back, and personally I feel I lose more control when I try to do so.
The only problem people see with this design is in low-speed scenarios. Any crash above 20mph will just be the driver's fault.
@@37racso it's possible he was more concerned with dept perception? Or maybe greater periphery awareness for contexts like backing out of a driveway where there are multiple cars? Maybe he also was aware that some drivers still may own sensorless cars. I do, so it's relatively mandatory that I look backwards. Again, that suggests Tesla's driving ergonomics are based more around sensors, like how Elon said "any input is error." Maybe the yoke steering is suggesting all the driver needs to do is face forwards in the new Teslas.
In formula one turns do go unto 200 degree and more, usually max 180 in hairpins but the reasons you can get away with a yoke steering wheel is due to the steering ratio, which is insanely high in a single seater compared to road cars
Same as there's 3rd party speedometer for model 3, you would have a 3rd party half a wheel attachments that would make the wheel circular
That horn button is a joke. try looking for that in an emergency!
This unsymmetrical yoke triggers my OCD, especially during a turn, and this haptic button business is ridiculous.
I already have a hard enough time trying the find the correct buttons on my current steering wheel for my radio and dashboard controls when I'm turning the wheel. What's going to happen when more important buttons are placed there instead. I'll end up hitting the wrong button because they have changed position.
Now, regarding haptic buttons, that sounds terrible. If it were at least a physical click button, you could place your finger over it and touch it without pushing it if you're anticipating that you're going to push it. But with haptic, if you even put your finger over it and lightly touch it, you'll engage the button. Placing your important and most often used function buttons so far away from arms reach is also stupid, not to mention missing your target a lot of the time.
Every car should be required to have a HUD for the speedometer. It is so much safer to not have to take your eyes off of the road to check your speed. The radio and HVAC controls should be clicky buttons and dials you can operate without looking. Sometimes I have to use the turn signals while steering, how would a button on the steering wheel work then?
There is a reason cars have had wheels for 100 years, it’s the best tool for the job. I personally dislike Tesla’s particularly because you have to use the touch screen for everything, sometimes a knob or switch is better and safer, not taking your attention away from driving. If you could not get a wheel I would not purchase the car, and it’s illegal in many states including my state New York.
The amount of time it will take to watch if it went into the correct “gear” will take longer than just switching it manually.
Yoke steering wheels are designed for race cars because they go in corners very fast and have a lower steering angle which is only 360° to make it easier for the drivers, but the cost is that it is way more sensitive, so it doesnt fit for a road car. The problem with tesla's implementation of the yoke is that it still has a normal steering angle which is around 900° which makes it hard for sharp turns
Imagine having two Teslas, Model 3 and S Plaid. You get use to Model 3 by looking 45 degree right and then you use S Plaid you again have to get use to yoke steering and no right and left blinkers. So it would be impossible for a person to get use to both at same time! I believe a company should have same standards among all its cars.
Turn signals as buttons will be terrible in Europe because you have to signal right before you exit a roundabout so you could have the wheel turned and find yourself searching for the turn signal buttons.
My thinking is that a touch screen on a car as a main input is just going to result in so many input errors that it does not make any sense.
I can think of a few cars that don't have any dash indicators behind the wheel. The Toyota Yaris around 2007, most if not all MINI Cooper and Countryman of the last 10 years or so
It should be a wheel with a fixed center that has buttons on it that stay in a fixed position instead of traveling with the wheel.
I'm surprised at the fact that turn signals and other stock controls as buttons is new to so many people. Ferrari were like the first to do this more than a decade ago. Think it first appeared on the 458 and over time they put more buttons on the wheel
The auto drive shift (or whatever they call it), is only active at the start of your drive from park. It doesn't work with any other scenario, unless you are parking between your stops in a 3 point turn.
sorry but your slight glance to the right makes you more vulnerable on your left side as your peripheral vision shifts too. looking down you can still have a chance to see if something is coming at you on your left.
I think the buttons are great, capacitive is more sensitve of course so that may take some getting used to as an accidental press will probably be more common. but for drive selection think of all of the vehicles that have different drive selectors. Some have a stalk, some have a "shifter", some have a knob.
Remember, the buttons on the steering wheel are force touch for different functions like single windshield wipe or full-on turn the wipers on, and they also have haptic feedback like your smartphone. I think the issues you're concerned about will go away after you drive it for a few days.
The yoke steering wheel, I'll wait until they eventually come out with an option for a regular steering wheel. Think something like that should be used on a sports car. I can imagine how uncomfortably it would be driving long distance with a yoke steering wheel. The steering wheel gear selector I feel like eventually Tesla is going to bring back. For daily use, its just impractical to use the screen to override the gear selector. Certain things doesn't need to be changed.
i’ve actually tried driving and NOT using the top part of the steering wheel and it’s totally doable. BUT you need to learn to shuffle steer. It’s also way safer, because you won’t cross your arms, in case the airbag deploys. Google shuffle steering.
You guys start the podcast like Dababy starts his songs lol and I love it!
What's the advantage of having less grabing area?
This seems like a drive to cut manufacturing costs not improve things for the user.
Heres the thing.. they’re working their way to having no steering wheel, its to incentivize people to use the fsd
Spot on I think.
14:40 The thing is that the term for it is guessing. He's an engineer at heart, so he would be unlikely to use another term. In a way it is not great for PR, though.
You guys basically get it. I'm a private pilot. I know from yokes. Fine on an airplane, on a car ... not so much. In an AC the L/R deflection is typically only a few degrees. Full deflection L/R is only about 90 degrees either way, and the only time you see full deflection is in preflight while checking control deflection, while taxiing to counter winds, or while doing aerobatics ... and then you'd rather be flying a stick. So ... make mine a proper wheel.
Reinventing the wheel is literally something that does not need to happen
Gear auto select only works from park. You have to swipe up or down on the screen to select gear/direction in all other cases. No big deal. 👍
People didn’t get use to the button blinkers on Ferraris so I don’t see them get use to it on a Tesla
Can't wait to see one one of these guess the direction wrong when someone tries to launch it only to go in reverse.