Why Tesla Keeps Removing “Features”
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- Tesla is getting rid of the radars and lumbar support on select vehicles and we have some thoughts. Plus, Marques explains why getting rid of radar fits right into the long-term plan that Tesla has.
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It’s hard to believe they don’t think lumbar support is important when they’re sitting on a Herman Miller Aeron chair lol
Golden comment
Don’t think they’re saying they don’t need lumbar support. It’s needing the adjustable part that is the debate.
@@xtianfiero how is customization a debate lmao
@@untitled795 Because it's in the passenger seat only, which people don't adjust for short trips.
@@andvari1056 My wife always sits in the passenger seat. So yes, I need adjustable lumbar support
If Mark Zuckeberg wasn't a robot , he'd look like this guy
Lmao yes
The Zuck: Now with human-like features
😂🙏🏼👍🏼😄
I thought he was a lizard lol
I thought this was mark zuxkerberg but it would be strange to be him haha
Lumbar support matters a lot for older people 55 or back injury/accidents/ with people of different heights and long rides where seats are not comfy.
I’m 21 and I need lumbar support. Otherwise I end up slouching and sliding down my seat which ends up aching my lumbar
Lumbar support is for everyone.
I am 190cm tall and I've never had the need for adjustable lumbar support in the passenger seat, even on 8 hour drives.
It's true, but it's not used on the *passenger* seat very often. Statistically it's virtually never touched, as Elon said, and I'd have to agree with that. I adjust my lumbar in the driver's seat often, but in 20+ years of driving I've never had a passenger use lumbar support in my car, regardless of whether it's short drives or road trips.
@@JudgeNLN of course it's used, my wife is pretty much the only person that rides in my passenger seat and she's there pretty often so that seat is adjusted for her especially because we're doing 4-5 hrs trips at least twice a month.
ACC isn't active cruise control, it's adaptive cruise control.
Always a bigger fish in the sea.
pretty much the same thing, he got the gist
its actually a part of the acronym TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) for Teslas
"I understand that people don't like seeing this is more expensive and has less thing, but I don't feel like lumbar support is the hill to die on for that".
That's a terrible argument to make, at what point is the feature enough for you to argue that it's a dumb idea to remove?
LIDAR support removal seems like the dumbest thing ever to me, people bought Tesla for that safety aspect, and full vision only is not ready and cannot see through large objects, e.g. car in front a truck that stopped so the truck will slam its breaks, kid running into the road from between cars, etc., you've actually reduced the capability of something people already paid for.
Removing the lumbar support and then still pricing the car the same also doesn't make sense, that's called cost cutting and that's very strange in a premium car, and lots would have pre-ordered the car that included lumbar support and will not get a car with it.
Tesla is terrible as they are not open with the features they have, adding features is always nice, but you can't remove them after someone purchased it.
Tesla are not premium cars. They act like they are, but it's far from the case.
@@ulycha thing is, they are generally priced in the same bracket, and they do try and make it their image. So they'll be judged as such.
@@Masterrunescapeer Model S and X are premium cars. 3, Y, and Cybertruck are not and they will be judged as such.
Tesla is a premium brand, as they’re compared with luxury brand. It’s just the build quality that isn’t known to that.
@@ulycha Tesla doesn't pretend to be a luxury brand
The removal of features absolutely wouldn’t bother me if I saw the price kept going DOWN.... but it seems to be going higher and higher which is extremely annoying as someone looking to purchase one soon.
It’s looking like a used one is the best bet if you want all the feature.
Has the value changed?
Well, the cost of everything has gone up. That's the point. It's not like Tesla is doing this arbitrarily to make more profit. Tesla is the only company to really pass savings in cost down to the customer.
There *are* other electric cars on the market. If you live in the USA you can even still find ones that allow for the full $7500 tax credit.
Don’t buy a new Tesla.
Don’t justify tesla removing stuff. It’s the principle
What principle?
@@Supreme_Lobster People shouldn't have to take shit from corporations
@@Supreme_Lobster They did it to make more money. They did not do it to make the user happier. They will keep boiling the frog, watch.
The principle is devolving design, like having heated seats in a car and paying to unlock them in software.
@Muttanna S H tesla re literally the safest cars in the world
@@vaibhavagarwal5282 What’s your point?
If you have a spouse or partner that goes with you almost everywhere the adjustable lumbar support is vital for both. Any trip more than 30 mins and the lack of lumbar adjustment in my wife's car bothers me (the drivers seat lumbar adjustment broke), and we're only in our mid 30s and pretty active/healthy. I think the problem is it's a feature you get in most cars these days, especially anything costing more than $40k. If you really want to treat yourself to truly next level automotive seat design go sit in a newer Volvo, they are amazing chairs.
Maam this is a Wendy's
Lincoln as well, they have like 30 way power seats!
@@rhishabdahal3025 most definitely! Sat in an Aviator with the upgraded seats and it was amazing
You and your wife have weak genetics...
You are aware.... you can replace the seats. It is not only possible, but easily done.
"know it all" 😄
😄
Its not active cruise control, it's adaptive cruise control.
@@bilalrasool1 *sorta know it all
@@bilalrasool1 not all cars are adaptive, that’s a new term.
the original meaning is active as in its inception, cruise control was either on (active) or off (inactive). nowadays it will adapt to the speed of the car in front of you, hence ‘adaptive’ cruise control.
Makes looking at used cars a nightmare. "Is it this version?" "Yes but it is that version, with these features that were available in this window, with these fixes, these versions of these 34 different changes.." etc
For the cameras, it isn't good. If you can't see it can't see. Fog and other bad weather can make camera-only non functional. Forget about it ever being level 5. Plus the excuse listed is absurd "oh it is an old version with low resolution".. Fine if that is a problem you upgrade it. Not like they stopped making and improving radar.
Your argument is humans can not drive cars.
@@davidbeppler3032 I said nothing of the sort. I am pointing out a scenario where humans struggle and simply can't be safe because we are limited to visible light. My argument is that it wants to be self-driving, and as Musk always argues: far better than humans. To take away a sensor that can do some things better than vision is to reduce how much better and how much safer it can be than a human.
@@curtisbme Why do you falsely believe Radar is better than sight?
@@davidbeppler3032 Seriously? I get that you are obviously one of the musketears that must defend any perceived slight against your god but at least pretend to have read the comment you are replying to and maybe don't make laughably ignorant and insulting questions like "falsely believe" if you are asking a real question (which you may not be).
You are on the internet, you have access to sites other than Tesla fan pages. There is an overwhelming amount of information on how radar works and in what situations it is better than sensors that work with only visible light (like fog, snow, and any areas that aren't fully illuminated). Start with wikipedia and go from there.
@@curtisbme if humans can drive in those conditions, Tesla vison will get to that level as well… eventually, I definitely think they took them out too early but I’ve already driven my model 3 in fairly heavy rain and it did a pretty good job on autopilot. Tesla’s reason was that radar and cameras were both telling the car different things and more often then not the cameras were trusted over autopilot anyways. This way the car can be more confident when picking how to handle situations. I get where you’re coming from though I don’t agree with certain things Elon does, removing lumbar on passenger seats seemed pretty unnecessary lol.
are either of you married or have families??
Lumbar in both front seats and memory driving seat is a must for me and my wife. We took a 12 Hour drive to the Grand Canyon last weekend, both driving 6 hours apiece.
6 hrs with NO lumbar is a pretty big downside.
how many 12 hour trips do you make in a year.. I think thats the problem.. remember it HAS lumbar support.. its just that its not adjustable.. Many cars don't have adjustable lumbar support for passengers..
@@Mellowyellow8888 i’m ok with cars NOT coming with lumbar support.
But Tesla DID offer it for both front seats. and since they don’t do year models. customers have no warning or control over many features.
The real problem is they’re constantly silently updating the car and here recently the updating has been taking away many features.
I don’t see how this is a good business move.
and they’re obviously in trouble because the prices of the car are going up and they’re removing features.
What do you do for a living
@@Hartmaniac nah most of price flux is due to demand and increasing supplier costs.. just look at how many things are costing more at the supermarket.. but yeah they should really announce feature changes
@@sadiqgiyasuddin6600 Electrician
Radar also helps with cross traffic detection. For example backing out of a parking lot when the view is obscured by cars parked on each side of you which can detect approaching vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians
Me: when is the next mkbhd video
Waveform videos: here you go
Me: 😄
For anybody driving more than 50 miles regularly everyday (so spend a long time in the seat), adjustable lumbar support will be a huge deal. I'm 6'4 and my back literally breaks on seats without it.
But only passengers lumbar is being removed so the group of people most affect by the removal of lumbar support aren’t actually affected
I hear you. This is just cost cutting. They will couch it in some bs about analytics, but it’s all about the greenbacks not the customer backs.
@@burnttoastbrain two words: family car
@@samuelrodriguez6684 there are plenty family cars both SUV and sedan without passenger side lumbar support. Dont get me wrong I believe telsa should answer for removing this feature/item however I think their reasoning does seem sound
@@samuelrodriguez6684 two words: replace seat
Ah yes let's ask the fanboys on Reddit for some objective facts about Tesla lol
The mere fact that the top post critisizes the radar as useless and therefore the fans think it's ok to get rid of it is hilarious. Why not just put better radar on it? Smh
Also it installs some kind of redundancy.
Literally hate Tesla fanboys like don’t you guys want a better product? They can’t look at anything objectively if I woke up one day and Toyota removed something with a software update that I bought I would be livid
Having to cross reference the vision and radar system creates delay in how fast the car can make decisions and how accurate they are. Here's a statistic straight from Tesla. Old Vision+Radar was 1 crash every 5 million miles. New Pure Vision is 15+ million miles without crashes. Either way, still safer than humans.
@@SamuelRozenfeld oh god. You don't know how reasoning works at all.
@@guiagaston7273 Maybe I don't, but when you can show me the radar built into your brain, and your microsecond reflexes, then I'll let you teach me how to reason.
My wife rides around with me in the passenger seat everywhere (epileptic cannot have her own car) and if I researched the car and thought it would have lumbar for her and then I didn't get it would be slightly annoyed. Not the end of the world but if I was specifically looking for that feature yeah kinda annoying.
it has lumbar support its just not adjustable so it stay the at the position the factory sets
Why they can't have car?
Lots of inventory has been popping up randomly, you may be able to snag a lumbar demo model
@@Twistashio so its fucking useless
@@SchwertKruemel
To the majority of Tesla owners it seems it was useless anyway since no one was using it..
The point is not the removal of the function and whether you use the function or not. Its that they remove functions without informing customers. Its lumbar support today - whats next?
My Merc has a lot of features that I may or may not use. It is my prerogative. Not the manufacturers. If they remove something, I as a customer expect to hear it directly from them (before I make a purchase) rather than a twitter feed or a reddit forum so that I can make an informed decision.
It's all about saving money
Radar is more expensive than camera
That's pretty much the only real reason
This I'm thinking they had some supply chain issues with the radar - and they don't want to stop shipping cars so they just ship them without the radar and try to patch the ACC loss of functionality with a software update after the fact. If they were planning on going vision only then this just gave them the push to start that direction early, win win. That's the most realistic scenario. - and if they don't get around to the software patch than that's cool too because the Tesla Stans won't care anyway they're more than happy to have Elon steal from them.
If radar and camera disagree, which do you believe? (phantom braking) Camera has significantly more data, so probably wise to go with camera. Therefore, why have the complexity of radar at all? Furthermore, how many times in your entire adult life have you not been able to drive at all because it was too foggy? Humans don't have radar and, to my knowledge, humans not being able to drive because of bad weather is not a major societal concern. Why force self driving cars to fix a non-existent problem? If it's raining or snowing, the wipers will turn on to clear the front cameras, just like with humans. If both side cameras and back camera get covered, just drive more cautiously.
Lukas, listen to Dylan. He is right, you are uneducated.
@Muttanna S H What? Please respond in English.
@Muttanna S H There is nothing about the definition of a car that states it should be able to drive at all moments, in every condition. If what you were suggesting is the case, we should be demanding that car manufactures make sure we can drive cars in hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, lava flows, etc. There has to be a cut-off point where it is not safe for a car to drive. That cut-off point should be where there is near 0 visibility. Even if you have 0 visibility and radar the car should not drive. You CANNOT drive with just radar. Radar just tells the car "there is nothing in front of you" but that is not a safe method of driving. The car would have no idea where the road ends or where lane markings are, let alone being able to predict intent of other drivers. Therefore, cameras are necessary for safe driving and radar is not.
Marques, ACC stands for adaptive cruise control, not "active cruise control". An honest mistake, but still worth pointing out.
It's the same function. So it's not that big a deal
I’m pretty sure different manufacturers call the same thing in a different way. Same as VW calls the traction control “ESP” (Electronic Stabilization Program) and Toyota calls it “TRC” (Traction Control).
@Jacob Milford is it better to "know nothing"? Sheep
@@athl0n Traction control and electronic stabilization program is different. VW has both traction control and electronic stabilization program or electronic stability control.
Worth remembering that lumbar support is most useful for people who have back issues. I know people who adjust it all the time, whereas I will never change it unless it's uncomfortable.
This is probably the worst take imaginable. Just lying down for corporations and justifying removing features just to make more money. Lost some respect for Marques
Go buy the competition. Pay more for less, but feel better about it.
@@davidbeppler3032 what's that got to do with Marques take?
I’m deeply troubled by the removal of the radar, cameras cannot replace when you have averse conditions or trust a camera sensors that cannot see as well in the dark, but also acc can see two or more cars forward as if in an emergency breaking situation
Tesla is trying to achieve full self driving using a vision. Think of it like this. Do you use radar when you drive? You use your 2 eyes only. Tesla will have 8 camera's....
@@Hello8qwe see ev Dave's recent review of the non radar version it couldn't even Handle the light rain and Tesla have said themselves that they used the radar as a safety backup. And is still required in Europe and Asia
@@Hello8qwe lol cameras and a CPU has no where near the situational awareness or computational power of the human brain and eyes.
Self driving is just another marketing stunt by Musk, it will not happen.
@@kingsley3208 lmao are you serious? You think the human brain can out perform a CPU and vision? Lmao. Haha. I'm speechless.
@@Hello8qwe I think you underestimate the human mind, my friend.
CPU follow written instructions. The brain is creative in a way computers simply can not be. Driving is not on rails, the terrain is unpredictable, the conditions are unpredictable and this world is inhabited with unpredictable agents, this is not the world in which AI thrive.
To answer the guy on the lefts question: I change lumber support in almost every car I’ve been a passenger in
Yeah it’s all kinda just insane for a car of that price level. It’s not super expensive, but it’s still definitely not a budget friendly car.
How? Most cars don't have it.
They seem like two people who won't ever be friends with each other, business only.
Yeah, like they have a great work relationship but nothing outside of that
@@Guill0rtiz racist
@@mblend27 What
@@starmorpheus relax
@@mblend27 ❔❓🤨
Saying radar has a low resolution doesn't make sense since that is what Ships and Airplanes have been using for the last 70 years
While true, radar is used for very different things. In an aircraft, it is just used to locate an object. In a car, it is important to understand the exact shape and what the object is.
while i dont want to lessen your argument.
"radar" is too broad. I think the radar antenna in Airplanes are of much higher quality / resolution than the one dinky module in a model 3/y.
I mean the phased array antenna from starlinks base station is good enough for highspeed connections over 500 km away, but up until recently phased array antenna where considered military class equipment.
The big radar teleskopes that find things in the universe like the "picture" of the black hole they made are propably of high enough resolution, but you wouldnt want a huge antenna dish in front of your car
(sorry for the long text i just wanted to explain the difference between small/big and normal/high grade radar ... it just got a littly rambley )
There are different versions of radar you know that right it's like saying a camera on a phone from the early 2000s should be able to take 8K photos because it's still a camera.
Anybody who justifies the removal of features like lumbar support or lies down for a corporation like that loses my respect.
Good thing Tesla does not need your respect. Also, lumbar support is unnecessary. If you want it, buy an aftermarket seat that has it.
U have one mate😂
@@davidbeppler3032 dude why you simping so heavy for corporations in these comments?
Lumbar support adjustment is useful for setting up Child seats and baby carriers, as well as for elderly or even Pets.
It's pretty annoying, why not just remove it when the cameras out perform the radar in every situation? Or just keep it as a backup/fail-safe...
Programming.
Because the cameras can perform just as good what do you think FSD beta was doing.
@@user-RCST actually radar can see "through" cars, so if the car ahead of the one directly in front of you slows down- your car can slow down as well- before the camera even pick it up.
@@invalidopinion3378 technically speaking it can't see through them it can bounce under them and come back to the car. But do humans do that?
@@user-RCST Well the technical "how" isnt the point, the point is that radar outperforms cameras in certain situations, and tesla cars with radar can do more than those that dont (even when FSD comes out)
Radar + vision... That should be how it is because cameras can be obstructed or fooled on accident or just can't see at night with mist or rain.
They should even add thermal vision perhaps for maximum peace of mind
Humans should not be allowed to drive?
@@davidbeppler3032 yes, humans should be banned from driving in the future
Love the cut with the texts and the lumbar google, thats exactly what I wanted to do😂😂👌🏻
Imagine you are a family and your partner is in the passenger seat. With not adjustable lumbar you are basically saying their back is not worth as much as yours as the driver.
I mean, yeah
Yeh but no
More often there will be a person in the driver seat vs the passenger seat
@@aidanm5194 yeah, but that’s a pretty cruddy excuse to be honest.
This is not a new phenomena in car manufacturing. Often the driver gets more adjustment capabilities and comfort than the passenger.
@@TananBaboo its a pretty representative excuse in the industry and matches average use cases
Passenger lumbar support is important when you’re not single haha
They pretty much pointed at the issue I have with adjustable lumbar support in passenger seat. You get into someone else car and you don’t usually adjust it or mess around too much with the seats but…. How about family. Son or daughter. Husband or wife. They sit there every day and they will adjust the seat… that’s my issue with that statement. We always get the answer from single young people. And they don’t have am issue with it. But family people yes. It is a problem.
I saw the "trailer" for the podcast back in the days and Andy showed his face in that. Now when they've been talking about how people didn't know how Andy looked I always thought "yeah, I know how he looks, the video podcast won't be weird for me". Turned out it was weird cause he doesn't look like I remembered.
Here's a quote from Elon musk “When radar and vision disagree, which one do you believe? Vision has much more precision, so better to double down on vision than do sensor fusion. Sensors are a bitstream and cameras have several orders of magnitude more bits/sec than radar (or lidar). Radar must meaningfully increase signal/noise of bitstream to be worth the complexity of integrating it. As vision processing gets better, it just leaves radar far behind”
1 word: Fog
@@kav12ab how bad is this fog? If a human can see through it, the camera will have no problem, if a human can't see through it, why would you rely on radar alone?
@@John_Doe742 humans can’t see through fog, that’s why many accidents happen. A radar isn’t affected by fog however.
@@alexzhou7 So are you saying the radar alone could achieve driverless autonomy?
@@John_Doe742 radar alone cannot achieve autonomy, but it’s a good redundant measure to have both radar and camera since cameras only see what we see.
It is cost cutting for the cheep models… Nothing else. Model X and Model S will still habe RADAR
@@312bigbeanburrito imagination.
Me trying to pause to see the text when mkbhd said active cruise control.... 🤣 🤣 🤣... "know it all".
8:18 quite a few times, actually. Always nice to make ur back hurt less
It doesn’t sound reassuring for long term ownership. How does one keep a Tesla running in let’s say 12 years from now. Is it even possible? Spare parts software, upgrade etc. how will local service and repair men/women be able navigate and find the right parts and fix issues? To me it sounds a bit like it’s going to be cars with planned obsolescence, not ideal for a presumed green car 🤔
Tesla's plan is that no local service guy will ever touch your car. Not because something won't go wrong with the car but because Tesla (like Apple) doesn't want anyone working on their products but them. They don't provide spare parts now, imagine years from now!
Model 3 is designed to last a million miles. Name another car designed to last that long. Where did you get 12 years?
4680 battery should last a million miles and Tesla is designed to last an extraordinary long time.
@@davidbeppler3032 My Mazda turned 12 this last April 🎂 I hope Tesla will support the software of their 12 years and way beyond. If I get it correctly they are on their 3 update of weldings and casting of the model 3 hope they will service these different sizes of internal body panels and their different weldings and welding methods until the day before the sun burns out.
@@user-RCST I am not particularly worried about the batteries and the engine. I am worried about software maintenance and the ever changing body/frame panels structures etc. it’s okay if Apple or Microsoft doesn’t support their after 12 years, because you just buy some new stuff. For a car however it will be absolutely disastrous. Personally I think it should be demanded by law that car companies should guarantee at least a 25 years hardware supply and support of the software.
Hey quick suggestion, it'd be awesome if you could put the link to the full episode of the podcast on youtube on the description of the clip so people could go check it out if they wanted to.
I get why people think you need redundance and/or radar. Two points to that.... I have never met a person that needed used radar while driving, if it's so bad that you can't see then don't drive... Accidents are caused by a lack of redundance, generally speaking is human error or lack of paying attention- camera will not be distracted and the computer will not get tired. If the computer is faulty then it will not be able to activate, sort of like if you're a bit drunk and driving then somebody else is going to take your keys away
They should use thermal imaging. It's not expensive and can provide additional useful data in many situations. It would be very useful in fog, rain or snow
I actually think that would be quite a genius move
I think it needs to keep lumbar support, especially if used as a family car. I would like to think they will integrate back in the future. I am from a family of 5 and with the truck we were all in on road trips or whatever, we sat in the same seat. My mom was always front passenger. If she is in that seat all the time, she should have the lumbar support there for her to adjust. I wonder what the marital/relationship status are of most Tesla owners. Like do they not have a partner that is always front passenger and adjusts the seat a specific way? I have yet to see a Tesla with more than 1 passenger. All of the Teslas I see driving on I-80,I-680,I-580,I-5 and other highways on my way to and from work often only have the driver. This is driving to work though. You don't usually take family on the way to work. I wonder how much of the data used by Tesla accounted for this. How much of it has to do with the fact that it has not been adopted as a family vehicle yet.
Preach dude, only see rich tech bros flexing these things on the Highway in CA by themselves. Nobody else seems to really care
They need to add back radar or just upgrade to lidar. Cameras alone won't be enough especially if we want completely autonomous driving. And even worse if you buy a car now, some of the features will be disabled while they "figure it out". Unacceptable.
Why wouldn't cameras be enough? Humans can drive and we only have the equivalent of cameras to see with.
@@MrNikeNicke because ai for self driving is not at all there yet and adding redundant sensors can save your life if one sensor is not working as it should.
Do airplanes need multiple sources of power to fly? No. What happens if you're in the air, you only have one power source, and it cuts out in midair?
@@312bigbeanburrito The AI isn't there yet, I agree, but the claim I responded to wasn't that cameras aren't enough right now but that they "won't be enough [for] completely autonomous driving." I think they will be.
2:51 "MAJOR ISSUES distinguishing STOPPED objects". Sound like the radar could be the source problem in some of the Tesla crashes.
Yah but it’s always been used in conjunction with the cameras. If the Tesla’s only had radar then I could see that as the source of the problem but I don’t think removing the radar is gonna solve anything
It was. Radar deliberately ignores stopped objects, otherwise it would keep detecting the road itself as an obstacle.
@@Natdog99 It already has, look up Kevin Smith on UA-cam
@@Natdog99 Tesla seems to have prioritized radar input over camera input thus far, leading to the related crashes. Removing it therefore will likely help significantly.
"The road of the future is not smoothly paved" yeah we hear your car pun, Marques! Hope your voice never gets over'ridden'! (name this pun now?)
Using cameras is not as good in bad weather. That’s critically important as that’s when it’s most likely to fail.
That’s resolved with new heat pump.
@@AbhijitBhattacharyaju according to who?
wow people still do this first stuff?
first
There are new humans every day, the youthful will continue the tradition of saying first
Sensor fusion is incredibly difficult people underestimate that particular aspect.
Yes. They think it all just works. Quite easy, barely an inconvenience.
They should be adding lidar, not removing radar
no
No
So you guys think less data is better than more data? These things are driving us, so it’s literally human lives on the line
@@MartinPittBradley lidar is unnecessary
@@MartinPittBradley More data can't be good if it results in data conflict.
Data conflict mean longer reaction time.
Do you think longer reaction time is better?
I am a total n00b when it comes to car tech. I don't even know what ACC is... so I go on Reddit and look at the community full of fanboy's to get an explanation why radar is anyway an old and useless tech that only legacy carmakers use on their inferior cars.
Nice tactics bro!
There’s a silicon shortage, so they’re probably just trying to manage.
They're not going to add radar back
Yeah, probably because the shortage will be here to stay for quite sometime. But they may be forced to rethink their decision if accidents go up and consumers lose trust in autopilot.
@@brandonjones4666 no problems have come up.
There's a cash shortage at Tesla
@@kingsley3208 Tesla has like 10+ billion in the bank.
Why would they get rid of radar before the vision system is ready to compensate for it? Being cheap and lowering safety in the short run?
The issue that concerns me with my X is if Tesla is eventually going to turn off the radar in it via software to simplify future software development.
I don’t see any upgraded version coming, the nature of radar is that it will never have very good resolution without a lot of processing and in limited situations, that’s what LIDAR is for and we know that’s virtually guaranteed to never make it in a Tesla. What radar does well is give very good ranging accuracy and see much better in inclement weather, so absolutely adds value in combination with the cameras.
**Tesla removes features and plaid +**
Tesla fans: Cool! We trust Elon to tell us what we dont need.
He is an engineer. We are uneducated. Do you tell your doctor what to prescribe? No? Why not? Oh.... because they are educated. Same thing.
@@davidbeppler3032 this is sad dude, don't fall for this false tech Messiah
The thing is: Radar actually is not a redundancy, because a redundant system would enable the car to still work exactly the same as before one system (e.g. camera) failed.
There are redundant cameras on the front of the Tesla though.
What I found most interesting in that whole discussion is that removing radar also removes a source of conflict between the two systems.
So if radar says X but camera says Y, who do you trust? Even worse apparently if you have radar, lidar and cameras. Elon has written a few tweets about this topic.
Also the fact that our entire road system is vision based kinda makes sense.
I´m still not entirely convinced that this was the right choice, but the explanation makes sense. Also apparently the camera could see through the car in front (windows) and still notice if the car in front of that car would be braking. Which is what humans actually do as well in some situations.
So if they plan to use the cameras, how does it work when the winter is cold and the cameras are covered in snow or ice?
Easy, you just have to earn a shit ton of money, change your life and career and move to California and buy a tesla there, cuz there no snow
Why would anyone want to move to California? That place is awful, bad traffic, bad fake people everywhere, and sure it's hot, but I'm Canadian I would never want to move to the states
I personally would add a small heating element to melt the ice around the lens.
Mud however is a different story
@@jacobrhodes9390 oh God mud would completely destroy the camera all together, good luck off-roading the cybertruck and still using those sensors
I think Openpilot (from Comma AI) principally uses cameras and not radar.
It also taps into the radar data through the OBD-II port (tapping into the CAN bus probably). Per comma.ai website:
"openpilot works by taking the radar data integrated with supported car models and combining it with the camera built into comma hardware, to determine what acceleration, braking, and steering events are required."
@@JanBabiuchHall correct. But when watching George Hotz ride along with a journalist, I remember him saying there is a bias toward the camera system for ACC. While Openpilot can use the car’s radar, I believe it often does not use it.
@@JanBabiuchHall that’s if the car as radar
@@drink15 has*
@@madbruv feel better?
Lumbar support is definitely a must. I wouldn't be able to ride long distances in my car without it. Ohh, but maybe that's why Tesla doesn't want it. They want people out of the car sooner so they can recharge.
It’s for passenger only so you will be fine.
@@lmcclymont I let my friends drive whenever I can, so I'm a passenger most of the time anyway :D Guess I'll bring a pillow...
Noticed they addressed their background being uneven on the edges by adding a white border
well spot
I don't get it, I think it is pretty symmetrical but I don't see any editing
@@beactivebehappy9894 preety symetrical. You are blind sir
Adaptive Cruise Control, not Active Cruise Control.
You're the KNOW IT ALL....LOL!!
This feels like a redundancy.
@@michaelzuma what feels like a redundancy?
1:15 misread it as "my petwife thanks you"
Should use both... lidar cost is steadily decreasing it's cost year over year
I have adjusted lumbar support in the passenger seat of my Dad's car for sure. My Mum does the same so it's got to be pretty common. That said I'd only do it in a friend's car if it we were on a road trip. I think the Tesla model for making random unannounced changes is rather bizarre and a minus point I will keep in mind next time I'm shopping for a new car.
This guy sounds like he's an extra from: "Everybody Loves Raymond"
My buddy owns a BMW dealership in CA. They are selling cars with removed lumbar adjustments too. He told me it is due to shortages with chips and supplies. He said BMW would rather remove the option and sell a car than wait for the items to complete the car. Perhaps, Tesla is doing the same.
No lumber support because of low chip production. Are you dumb?
@Muttanna S H the guy above me named david coles says so. Lol
Yes but BMW informed its customer beforehand and also decreased the price like a decent company. Tesla behaves like a crap scam company, just informs the customer of a removed option after they find out and also increase the price.
Passenger side lombar support part - well if you regularly ride with the same passenger, spouse/car pool etc it's kinda worth having adjustable support. Ofc not every person that you give a ride will adjust it, but if you go on a car trip with the fam it will be a missed feature
And when something breaks, you have no idea what parts your car has and who and when can fix it. Perfect.
@Muttanna S H Tell me more. They don't have a real service network here (yet at least, in Europe). Only some services here and there and usually far far away from many places. How do people get the car fixed then?
Suggestion for future videos. Please add name tags for both of you at the beginning of the video. I know who Marques is but I don’t know the other host. Also, not everyone who watches are automatically fans. Sometimes you get new people who just happened to watch because it was suggested.
Releasing self driving cars without radar is a big mistake. Self driving vehicles should use both (radar assisted vision/cameras) for safety reasons. I won't buy a self driving car without radar tech. Radar can see through fog better and etc. I'd like a Tesla vehicle, don't get me wrong, but it's tech is still too new for me. If they don't meet my self driving tech requirements, I won't buy it for safety reasons. I don't want brand new self driving tech. Self driving tech needs to be matured long before its even released to the public. That includes safety features. Feels like Tesla is skimping on that to rush self driving to please investors.
yeah, I appreciate Tesla's rolling release model, its good to constantly improve things instead of just letting issues be produced for a whole year's worth of cars. but messing with the fundamental formula of the car with no option to get the original version is just terrible. almost unforgivable, for something as big as radar.
I understand the argument against lidar, as cameras can cover that job well enough, but if my hobby drone uses multiple redundant sensors, a car definitely should. but as it is, I won't be getting a Tesla anytime soon, i'd rather build an EV than let supposedly the best EV manufacturer do it if this is their precedent.
If radar and camera disagree, which do you believe? (phantom braking) Camera has significantly more data, so probably wise to go with camera. Therefore, why have the complexity of radar at all? Furthermore, how many times in your entire adult life have you not been able to drive at all because it was too foggy? Humans don't have radar and, to my knowledge, humans not being able to drive because of bad weather is not a major societal concern. Why force self driving cars to fix a non-existent problem? If it's raining or snowing, the wipers will turn on to clear the front cameras, just like with humans. If both side cameras and back camera get covered, just drive more cautiously.
@@dylanlong6269 Camera. Radar would assist. Especially for low vis conditions.
@@xymaryai8283 agreed
8:06 Yes I do adjust lumbar support as a passenger in someone's car. hmph
Can't wait for the tesla model with no car, you just pay and get an app that shows you a virtual tesla and calls you a cab. All Heil Jessus Musk !
We picked up our Model Y 2 weeks ago it is a May 2021 produced Model Y. I asked if it had radar or not and they told us it did not have radar. Oddly, it does have passenger side lumbar adjustment.
I took delivery 1.5 weeks ago of my 2021 Model Y and so far I haven't had any big issues with the Tesla Vision but I have been driving in pretty clear conditions. I did notice that the car does not recognize the 2 cars infront of me but he will pickup cars around them.
I've never even knew about what lumbar support was until just the past couple of years, still I never used or adjusted
I am loving the podcast boys! Keep it up!
If you are a driver and you have a partner, passenger lumbar support is meaningful.
How is removing radar futuristic Marquez ? It should act like safety net.
tesla vision only will be more safe
Editor has a cool sense of humor 😁
With TSLA and radar, the talk is that the ML team has found that the false positives from radar actually impaired the behavior of their platform, and the benefits of having radar are outweighed by these types of issues.
Also, the cameras that are used are special, in that they don’t register green. They’re also supposedly able to capture some infrared that the human eye can’t see. This would give them superior performance in bad weather.
Radar, on the other hand, can be dramatically impaired by rain.
Thank you for using logic. Now cut, copy, and past it to every comment on this video!
Sandy Munro has said, TESLA Model 3 and Y seats are better than most OEMs.
With a pircetag much much higher..
The radar obviously has proved to be useless in recognizing enormous semi trucks in cross traffic too. Or just lying overturned in the road. RIP.
Because radar works on sending out and getting back the wave, however, in the case of large smooth surface that place at the angle such as a side of large semi truck, just like you said. Wave will be deflected away from the sensors instead of coming back. What the sensors think when there's no wave coming back? right it's like there's nothing there and that's why put too much trust on radar will make your car ramping into the side of semi.
I think they're still using ultrasonics and sonar tho, not solely vision (but overall a great clip)
yep.
My wife was really bummed to not have the adjustable lumbar support in the Model Y
camera can't see in lowlight/total darkness right?
I saw a video which shows the cams mistaking the moon to a traffic light. If there was radar assist, don't you think this could have been avoided...
Tesla, like Apple before them are another tech company utterly convinced of their cleverness and superiority over the competition. Both companies have innovated but when they make a mistake they struggle to resolve it. In a Tesla, the ergonomics are HORRIBLE, for example there is no stalk to control windshield wipers. Only a single wipe is a physical control, all other adjustments are sensor-dependent (and software) or require touchscreen interaction.
Great videos homies
The changes I want is greater mileage, faster charging, and lower price. I can really care about most of the features that don't involve the three things I just cited. After all this is a transportation vehicle not a rolling media center.
All of them unlikely to occur with Tesla, perhaps one of the big three or VW but even then, capacity, power transfer and material cost are the fundermental restrictions of EV
Fog
Blowing Snow
Rain
Freezing Rain
literally anything that impairs a persons visual ability, cuts off the teslas visual tools. Lets look less at the bitstream speeds and have a plan B for cars to continue when a sudden whiteout happens.
Do glad I’m a designer and know enough to build and manufacture my own. I’m actually so excited for our dystopian future because the ones who used their brains before will have such a crazy but fun time, those that aren’t free thinkers will be stuck in someone’s nightmare.
@@untitled795 Like tesla owners are stuck in Elons?
@@koomafloo3461 no because they have a choice to get rid of the Tesla for any other vehicle, no one forced that choice on them.
Very good to talk about Radar and only getting your information from a Tesla Subreddit which is just full of people justifying every step Tesla takes….
The amount of free PR that Musk has conjured is wild.
I’m really confused about why you would argue for them removing the lumbar support feature even if you don’t use it even if you don’t think most other people use it like why are you arguing for your limitations?
When did MKBHD start doing podcast with Zuckerberg?!
removing raidar well at least now cruise control dosent work any time in winter sens cameras are frosted over because tesla cant get software bug out that turns off camera heater when you take manual defrosting out.
What about the tow hitch option being removed from the european configurator?
They could add LiDAR.
And sonar! and a gigercounter! what about a themoimager? Oh... don't forget magnometer and sizemograph! Then it would be 458498579347% safer! Stooid hoomans.
Vented seats?!?
Why does that guy keep interrupting Marques?
The redundancy might be to eliminate phantom braking issue that some people have. It is probably an engineering problem that has plagued their team forever.
Someone said that the radar caused a lot of phantom breaking you see on Teslas, whether its true or not I cannot confirm but it makes sense.