Brotherly love: Anthony rescued vorenus from his decadent state with harsh measures and now vorenus indebted to Anthony tries to rescue Anthony from his disease.
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 Unfortunately yes...and the fact that nowadays Studios are capable of producing shows about everything and anything, bothers me beyond comprehension, this show was cut off too early and it truly deserved the 5 seasons they originally planned.
@@Conn30Mtenor HBO had to pull the plug simply because the entire production was being bled dry by various Italian Mafias; they literally bled it to death. Rome was intended to go on for many more seasons, naturally... Who wouldn't have loved to have seen this production go through Caligula and Armenius?
@@donkeykongfederersucks66 James's Mark Antony is not nice to women. would Mark Anthony be nice to me knowing that I'm not like the other women in this?
I like how Antony looked like he was building himself up for another one of his anger fueled blowouts, and then when Vorenus admits to being the same, it completely defuses him.
Welp I mean that's cause Anthony knew at that moment he was right! They have both allowed their anger to consume them to the point of actually hurting others that cared about them Anthony loved Rome and yet his anger at Octavian ruined him and turned Rome it's self against him!
@Verdant Thoughts True Romans served Rome. Mark Antony served himself, much like all the members of the Triumvirate and Julius Caesar before them. Agrippa was a true Roman because he actually tried to fix the problems in the city of Rome. He was a great general as well using effectively combined arms tactics in the first century.
@@idleishde6124 Caesar saved Rome, and did more for the common people than anyone had in some time, people may disagree with how he did it but to say he was purely self serving is nonsense.
Only now I finished watching it since I only watch scifi...but this painful show is out of this world. It forced me to learn some additional Roman history, I just absolutely didn't care before, lol.
I have a feeling that the creators of the mini-series were MORE than a little inspired by the likes of "I, Claudius". To anyone who liked Rome, if you haven't watched "I, Claudius", then do it. The series is incredible in its own right with amazing performances, but when watching it you will 100% notice the subtle "flair" it has, and how it is like a Proto-Rome.
actually, if it wasn't for Rome, and its eventual sucess with DVDs and all that after the show was cancelled (it was very expensive to shoot with all the sets and costumes), HBO would have never given GOT a chance, and that's a fact
Ceasar may think of him as Naive for his honorable ways But that's exactly why Anthony and Ceasar doesnt punish him . They trust him He is a GENUINE HONORABLE MAN. despite his flaws
Men like Vorenus and Anthony need to have a purpose in life. Caesar gave Anthony a purpose and after Caesar died Anthony lost his purpose of serving Caesar and fighting for him. Vorenus had his family. After his wife died and his children were taken from him he went berserk and felt he had nothing to lose. Without a purpose they have nothing else but anger and guilt. I have the same problem.
Everyone has that "problem", it's ingrained in human nature. Besides I wouldn't call it a problem, I find it to be one of the many reasons our species has been so successful.
good analysis of Antony & Vorenus. i think everyone needs a purpose in life. but you can always choose your purpose & give your life a new direction. if one purpose fails, look for another one. it might be difficult, but not impossible.
@117206901727039240671 Hmm but wouldn't you say this psychological quirk is what drives or at least adds to this willingness to be successful and transcend nature?
Thats why people with that view will never be truly happy, They are never truly content with what they are... they need to learn to live in the moment, instead of always driving for something. Live in equilibrium with the world, sure there may be less progress, but there will be more contentment and happiness.
" Such, then, was the nature of Antony, where now as a crowning evil his love for Cleopatra supervened, roused and drove to frenzy many of the passions that were still hidden and quiescent in him, and dissipated and destroyed whatever good and saving qualities still offered resistance. And he was taken captive in this manner. As he was getting ready for the Parthian war, he sent to Cleopatra". PLUTARCH, Life of Antony
@@jansandman6983 also he was long past caring about living or dying. if antony wanted his head he would've been glad to make any man pay for it, or given it to antony freely.
One of Vorenus' problems is that he suffers a chronic underabundance of fear. That said, he really didnt have much reason to fear Antony in that way, at all, at that point. And 3 year old comment!
He does that because he knows Antony, in a way, respects him and wont react violently. Mark Anthony is a brute but intelligent enough to see that Vorenus is a man of honour who deserves respect
What starts out apparently as a stern judgment swiftly turns into an intimate confession and an act of brotherly love. McKidd’s delivery is perfect as well as Purefoy’s reaction
+Lucius Vorenus what disease? depression? sorry i saw like 2 episodes the other night and started watching bits and pieces of it on youtube. i have HBO and all the movie channels maybe ill watch on demand. but why does he kill himself? (i forget is the real history that he is surrounded by his enemies. and about to be killed anyways?)
And no matter how great of a day you have when you're back alone with your thoughts and feelings it creeps back and feels like there's a void area in your chest that can never get filled. It's like a suction force at your entire being endlessly pulling at you both physically and emotionally//mentally.
He was never smug to Anthony, he always remembered his vow to him and how Anthony was never smug to his person. Great fucking character. He just kept his loyalty to him and even asked for an order to speak his mind.
It's interesting how Antony & Vorenus' relationship was with each other earlier in the show, compared to how at the end. After everything has fallen apart for Antony, Vorenus would be his last loyal man.
Vorenus was a very religious, conservative man. It's the source of his morals and his sense of honor. And why he clung to the old Republican ways while everyone else seemed only to care about accumulating power and winning.
He DID! He went on to do a movie with Sandra Bullock, and some other things but landed a role as Dr Owen on Greys Anatomy about 6 years going now. So residuals should hold up well. The uniform with the transverse crest has served him well.
I love how Rome portrays Antony. Too many times, people are brought up hearing about him as little more than a brute. I was incredibly happy to see the brilliant tactician and a great manipulator of people that he was in the show
Vorenus grew insane with rage, beyond reason that only got worse before it got better. This first happened where his anger caused his wife to commit suicide before he could regain control. Then, he nearly killed the son she sired with another man and cursed his children to Hades for helping their mother hide her secret. After cursing them....he thought they all were raped and killed and it was his fault. He grew irrational and drove his best friend Pullo away, who said "Youve got a demon in you"
The second season had few moments for me except for the first episode of Caesar's funeral and the Will. The way the writers took Vorenus out was pathetic, unimaginative and indignant for the warrior and servant he was! Antony sunk into pure decadence just letting the clock run out but even those scenarios with Cleo were disgusting. Clearly the second season was working on a much tighter budget, refer to how they took out Brutus and Cassius. Octavian was portrayed as a pervert and shit head. No, no, no. He was sharper than that. Pullo screwing that flewsy on the table, Ereni in and out of the story after all that, biting the guys tongue out!? Just crap writing. Trash.
That same anger was what made him a menace on the battlefieldand and kept him alive, but it came with a payoff and that being the fact that it seemed almost impossible for him to calm down when he needed to most. When his wife passed i didnt see him calming down at all if she hadnt fallen.
Always been one of my favorite bits of acting in all of ROME. Antony has been living up the life of a god/king and is high as fuck, and when Vorenus starts telling him what's up Antony's like "whatever" and then when he says "How can you be sure of your diagnosis" and Vorenus replies "I recognize your symptoms...I have the same disease". There's a lot of way's you could play that but Purefoy (and all of us) knowing the history of Vorenus as like the most curse hounded.... just doomed, neurotic, hard ass in the whole series is thinking "Really? You...I'm like you??? FUCK ME....." and the little pause and that release of air from the lungs portrays it PERFECTLY. Just brilliant. NO ONE wants to be told they've got the same problems as Vorenus. My 2c.
+blockmasterscott I'm not entirely sure if he was being mean here. Just brutally honest. He pretty much gave Anthony what he asked for: an honest assessment.
He's dressed in purple. To romans it was viewed as held for royalty alone. I figured to Lucius Vorenus he viewed Antony as getting too comfortable. Like he did in the aventine.
The way he acts when Vorenus says he has the same sickness makes Antony understand the truth of it. The acting in this series is better than any award they could give in recognition.
I took this scene as symbolic as soldiers in a subtlety describing PTSD. And It's effects. No doubt Marcus Antonius was a great Warrior ruled by accounts of hasty behavior, desire & it influenced later in his reign and eventual fall. " The line I have the same symptoms" from Vorenus actaully shoock me. He isn't accusing Antony more or less conversating about there shared fate & the toll the Gaulic & Britain conquests shaped on there souls to this point post Cesaer assassination and up to this point now in Alexandria. Great writing!
@Anti-Federalist 1776 PTSD has been described for a long time my friend and is linked to psychological and neurological causes. Shell-shock is in fact one of its many names, but there are accounts from ancient Greeks which describe PTSD like symptoms, Epizelus for example. Wouldn't damage to the brain from say a mace, sword, or stone cause neurological damage? Similarly the experience of horrific emotional trauma from watching men tear each other apart with spear, arrow, and sword is unimaginable. Soldiers from all eras have experienced this to some degree.
Listen dude but you're just straight up wrong. I was wrong to equate brain damage to neurological damage, but what you're saying is not inline with a majority of studies. It's true children can show a high level of resilience towards trauma but they aren't impervious to it. 55% of Nepalese child soldiers surveyed indicated they had ptsd like symptoms jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/182377 Similar study of Ugandan children jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/208207
@Anti-Federalist 1776 people experience mental trauma when witnessing or actively participating in traumatic events. Individuals that are drone operators can develop PTSD like symptoms aswell, albeit at an incredibly low rate. academic.oup.com/milmed/article/179/suppl_8/63/4210169
@Anti-Federalist 1776 alright man continue to spout your scientifically inaccurate bullshit. Continue to belittle the pain of others for seemingly no fucking reason other than you dont know what ptsd is or would rather change its meaning to suit whatever nonsensical reason you have.
How can this scene be tense, profound, yet supremely comical at the same time? Brilliant. A far more nuanced exploration of the concept of masculinity than could ever be found in a Gillette commercial, that's to be sure.
@@glumphyStoned OP has a point. I always thought it was about hyper conservative mentality. Other people say the "disease" is a lack of purpose, Which makes sense too.
This series being canceled in its second season is a crime. I can't believe that even after they noticed that it had picked up steam, they never tried to relaunch it.
It’s interesting that Antony and Lucius couldn’t be more different in terms of their beliefs and the actions they deem appropriate, but, nonetheless, end up developing a strong solidarity toward the end of the show.
Despite their radically different personalities they have something crucial in common. They are both consummate soldiers, military men. I think that allowed them to understand each other in a way others couldn't.
Vorenus-Pullo and Vorenus-Antony are the two most important relationships in the show. I think Pullo-Octavian was intended to be the other important relationship, but the show didn't really have time to develop it since they had to cram everything into the second season, there was too much stuff around Pullo to deal with.
It's also a subtle exploration of how differently from us the Romans looked at things like depression. In their worldview, everything had metaphysical, even cosmic significance. They didn't know about the brain or neurotransmitters. To them, it was a spiritual disease
I was a bit disappointed when they didn't even attempt it. They have the same source Shakespeare had, maybe they could have focused on different portions. To be the person who overwrites Billy as the quintessentially writer of Antony's funeral oration would mark a person for a similar perpetual veneration.
the casting on this show was really just perfection on another level. i can't think of a a SINGLE miscast character. even the minor ones like Agrippa, or that friend of Octavia's. i loved their take on Cleopatra too; not some voluptuous Venus rising out of the furs but this slight, almost elfin girl with the brightness of incredible intelligence in her eyes.
@@gravityseducer dude totally. and Atia!!! omg. i started out almost hating Atia and by the end she was the main character for me. i still remember her absolutely crushing line to Livia, which i think was also the last line of the whole show: "Better women than you have tried. Go and look for them now." -- which! in a way was also a tribute to her great nemesis Servilia, who in a weird way i think she respected as much as she hated.
Agrippa was reduced to nothing more than a stud in this series. Absolute waste of what a great asset he was to Octavian! Pure crap! The second season was mostly soft porn.
@@taroman7100 I think its pretty clear the character was going to get his dues provided the show didn't get canned early. I think Actium would have been his moment to shine. And don't get me started on the stuff that would have been going on in the East with Antony (mainly Parthia) It's a travesty we didn't get the seasons they wanted to make.
Probably my most favorite series of all time. Seasons one and two. Vorenus and Pullo are without a doubt my most favorite characters of all time. I always wished HBO would do another Rome, perhaps set in Byzantium towards the height of the Eastern Empire.
@@DutchGuyMike Yeah,that's what i was thinking also. Wanna check out some disgusting stuff? Check out "historian" gives opinion on mythology-something like that. The man is clearly an liberal,and quite dumb in many aspects of that video. Apparently the "rich" history of sub saharans influenced the greek culture,if you didn't know already...
Anthony was arrogant but as a superior and comrade he was loyal and always helpful. Like he said himself: he was soldier and not politician. Unlike Octavian who was politican and not soldier. Pullo knew at the end of the series that Octavian was not his friend.
I think Octavian definitely viewed Pullo as a friend, I just think Octavian wouldn’t hesitate to kill him if it helped further his goals or secure his position in some way. I think Caesar’s murder was a cemented lesson in his mind.
This is the perfect description of PTSD. There is no greater description of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (PTSD). I could describe it a million times, to a million. This is one of the best. I'm a Afghanistan war veteran. Served 2011-2012
When you understand the whole series from beginning to end. When Vorenus says he has the same sickness, Mark Anthony shakes his head and understands. It hits hard after two seasons.
This show was a masterpiece. It was such a good show and the actors and actresses were perfect for their roles and it really painted the environment between roman life of nobility and the people of rome. Production was very expensive per episode and the show was not really getting profits from sales. That's really the only way a show survives is popularity and if the market sales doubles their profits from the show, then they probably would have continued to 6 seasons or more. But not many were interested in Rome history. They had to pave way for other shows that made sense for HBO.
I just watched this series this past weekend. Although Mark Antony was a very layered character, I did not have much of an opinion about him throughout. Sometimes I liked him. Sometimes I didn't. But the final episode where he dies had me in tears. It was sad to see him completely broken.
His "disease" was going native. The Romans hated when real born Romans such as Mark Anthony forgot being Roman and adopted the customs of the natives in their conquered territories. Octavian exploited this to bring down Mark Anthony's popularity in Rome and eventually defeated him.
It's true that Romans looked down on those who "went native". However, remember that we only have Imperial sources for Antony's fall into decadence and they would, of course, be strongly inclined to justify Octavian's war against Antony by whatever means. Is it possible that Antony tatted himself up and started worshipping Ra? Sure. But we'll never know for certain if this was actually the case or if he was libeled by later historians.
@@Zapp__Brannigan very good points and a well balanced take. (sincerely). i’m inclined to add two thoughts that usually don’t get discussed with the Antony-Octavian denouement was that many sources seem to suggest that he and Cleo definitely participated in pagan nilotic rituals as Cleo’s people tried and looks like successfully convinced Antony that he was the living embodiment of Dionysus and the god of wine and revelry so he played the part or maybe even believed it which i think is more than grounds to say he most likely did adopt Egyptian esoteric cult of Dionysus/Osiris. Why else would he take the extra step and name Helios and Selene heirs to Rome in West upon his death, if the stolen will wasn’t a forged propaganda document by Octavian, unless he went full native?
This "disease of the soul" is what linked Vorenus and Antony. Pullo didn't have it which is why he got along with Octavian. I am thinking the disease is a self-destructive need for something unobtainable. Any more specific thoughts on this?
This scene speaks volumes to me as does all 22 hours of this epic. The disease he speaks of reminds me of my alcoholism, and I definitely recognize the symptoms. Thank God I woke up sober.
One of the best parts of Rome was the study of close relationships between unequals. The best of these was between Anthony and Vorenus. Also Caesar and Posca. Octavian and Pullo.
I too live with that disease after years in the military. At the end of the day, no matter what you have in this life, you will be judged on your final actions and how you treated people in a fair manner.
@Vance Humphrey thanks Vance, I see I also used the wrong spelling for "their" the first time but got it correct the second time...all in the same sentence!
I have no idea who's the Tommy character other than what you wrote but being Vorenus isn't much of an improvement. Vorenus was in deep depression at this stage of the show.
I have that sickness as well... You go through so much in life that you just dont give much of a fuck anymore and the only thing keeping you going is that one thing your good at...
I was so angry at HBO for truncating five or six seasons of ROME into the final (mostly ruined) season 2 that I could never really forgive, or enjoy, GAME OF THRONES (the show HBO chose over ROME for mega financing). ROME, Season 1 was so good. Then HBO did the same with DEADWOOD. A few months ago I read that Pullo (Ray Stevenson) had died a few days before his 59th birthday. I've never actually met the guy but I felt as if I'd had a kick in the stomach. Some part of me always hoped to see Pullo and Vorenus together again. Now it can never be.
Me to girl I'm trying to date: "You have a social awkwardness in yours soul. It'll eat away at you in conversations until the day you die." Girl: "Oh and how can you be so sure I have this awkwardness?" Me: "I recognize your symptoms... I have the same sickness." *says while not making eyecontact and b-line for the door*
Vorenus' expression the first couple seconds of this clip is hilarious. He looks at Antony like, "WTF are you wearing?". Which was my question too. His downward spiral is already well underway
Its a crime this series got cut short, in a better world we would've gotten the series this deserved to be. So much got glossed over or completely skipped which is such a shame, probably would've been a strong contender for best show of all time.
Brotherly love: Anthony rescued vorenus from his decadent state with harsh measures and now vorenus indebted to Anthony tries to rescue Anthony from his disease.
Your username is so appropriate.
Agreed. One of my favourite scenes in anything
lol I saw it after your comment
This is a harsh truth.
Quid pro quo
There wasnt a poorly acted role in the whole series, its a masterpeice.
Yet it was cut too short :(
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 Unfortunately yes...and the fact that nowadays Studios are capable of producing shows about everything and anything, bothers me beyond comprehension, this show was cut off too early and it truly deserved the 5 seasons they originally planned.
I would lived to have seen another three seasons of Rome rather than the entire GOT.
@@Conn30Mtenor HBO had to pull the plug simply because the entire production was being bled dry by various Italian Mafias; they literally bled it to death. Rome was intended to go on for many more seasons, naturally... Who wouldn't have loved to have seen this production go through Caligula and Armenius?
@@Conn30Mtenor Careful what you wish for. Could have gotten an awful finale like GOT did. At least now it is remembered as an excellent show.
James Purefoy was born to play this role. Out of all the cast, I think he comes out to be the best one so far.
Cerberus
Cesar was just as good
@@donkeykongfederersucks66 James's Mark Antony is not nice to women. would Mark Anthony be nice to me knowing that I'm not like the other women in this?
Best Looking MA ever!
Octavian is the best character for me.
@@taroman7100 he looks like marlon brando a bit
Vorenus; "my children are alive but in slavery"
Anthony: "good news bad news, eh?"
Purefoy delivery is perfect
I like how Antony looked like he was building himself up for another one of his anger fueled blowouts, and then when Vorenus admits to being the same, it completely defuses him.
Welp I mean that's cause Anthony knew at that moment he was right!
They have both allowed their anger to consume them to the point of actually hurting others that cared about them Anthony loved Rome and yet his anger at Octavian ruined him and turned Rome it's self against him!
@@Sarvonis he was a true roman even if a lot of people disagree on that. He was also very infatuated with Cleo
@Verdant Thoughts True Romans served Rome. Mark Antony served himself, much like all the members of the Triumvirate and Julius Caesar before them.
Agrippa was a true Roman because he actually tried to fix the problems in the city of Rome. He was a great general as well using effectively combined arms tactics in the first century.
@@hibbidyjibbidyy if the Romans were represented by Fire I’d say Caesar is the red and gold, Antonius is the white, and Octavian is the dark blue…
@@idleishde6124 Caesar saved Rome, and did more for the common people than anyone had in some time, people may disagree with how he did it but to say he was purely self serving is nonsense.
This show...hands down the best historical drama ever made, released a decade too early, ahead of its time.
Only now I finished watching it since I only watch scifi...but this painful show is out of this world. It forced me to learn some additional Roman history, I just absolutely didn't care before, lol.
I have a feeling that the creators of the mini-series were MORE than a little inspired by the likes of "I, Claudius". To anyone who liked Rome, if you haven't watched "I, Claudius", then do it. The series is incredible in its own right with amazing performances, but when watching it you will 100% notice the subtle "flair" it has, and how it is like a Proto-Rome.
actually, if it wasn't for Rome, and its eventual sucess with DVDs and all that after the show was cancelled (it was very expensive to shoot with all the sets and costumes), HBO would have never given GOT a chance, and that's a fact
@@k3rc4 and what did they do with GOT?
Killed the golden goose with stupidity and a rushed 'get me the hell out of here' conclusion.
@@k3rc4 Yeah, look how well GoT turned out
Vorenus is the only man that can actually question his commanders and they actually take it to heart.
Ceasar may think of him as Naive for his honorable ways
But that's exactly why Anthony and Ceasar doesnt punish him . They trust him
He is a GENUINE HONORABLE MAN. despite his flaws
@@LudwinVOnly a fool would mess with someone with such powerful Gods on their side
Men like Vorenus and Anthony need to have a purpose in life. Caesar gave Anthony a purpose and after Caesar died Anthony lost his purpose of serving Caesar and fighting for him. Vorenus had his family. After his wife died and his children were taken from him he went berserk and felt he had nothing to lose. Without a purpose they have nothing else but anger and guilt. I have the same problem.
Everyone has that "problem", it's ingrained in human nature. Besides I wouldn't call it a problem, I find it to be one of the many reasons our species has been so successful.
good analysis of Antony & Vorenus. i think everyone needs a purpose in life.
but you can always choose your purpose & give your life a new direction. if one purpose fails, look for another one. it might be difficult, but not impossible.
@117206901727039240671
Hmm but wouldn't you say this psychological quirk is what drives or at least adds to this willingness to be successful and transcend nature?
Thats why people with that view will never be truly happy, They are never truly content with what they are... they need to learn to live in the moment, instead of always driving for something. Live in equilibrium with the world, sure there may be less progress, but there will be more contentment and happiness.
" Such, then, was the nature of Antony, where now as a crowning evil his love for Cleopatra supervened, roused and drove to frenzy many of the passions that were still hidden and quiescent in him, and dissipated and destroyed whatever good and saving qualities still offered resistance. And he was taken captive in this manner. As he was getting ready for the Parthian war, he sent to Cleopatra". PLUTARCH, Life of Antony
I like how Vorenus actually passes along Octavia's message, he could have just kept his mouth shut and avoided risking infuriating Antony.
He's too loyal for this. And badass.
Vorenus as an army officer himself found an excuse to chastise anthony through his wife's superior message.
@@jansandman6983 also he was long past caring about living or dying. if antony wanted his head he would've been glad to make any man pay for it, or given it to antony freely.
One of Vorenus' problems is that he suffers a chronic underabundance of fear. That said, he really didnt have much reason to fear Antony in that way, at all, at that point.
And 3 year old comment!
He does that because he knows Antony, in a way, respects him and wont react violently. Mark Anthony is a brute but intelligent enough to see that Vorenus is a man of honour who deserves respect
What starts out apparently as a stern judgment swiftly turns into an intimate confession and an act of brotherly love. McKidd’s delivery is perfect as well as Purefoy’s reaction
A well written dialog... silently powerful.
These days it's very rare my friend.
Nothings enough. Happiness is chased, never achieved. I recognize the symptoms too.
I have had those very symptoms. .....one of the hardest things a good leader does is silently walk away from a position of authority
+Lucius Vorenus what disease? depression? sorry i saw like 2 episodes the other night and started watching bits and pieces of it on youtube. i have HBO and all the movie channels maybe ill watch on demand. but why does he kill himself? (i forget is the real history that he is surrounded by his enemies. and about to be killed anyways?)
Lucius Vorenus it's killed my soul a long, long time ago.
Phillip Saunders+ Say that to your president, not UA-cam. You have a strong message to convey.
And no matter how great of a day you have when you're back alone with your thoughts and feelings it creeps back and feels like there's a void area in your chest that can never get filled. It's like a suction force at your entire being endlessly pulling at you both physically and emotionally//mentally.
He was never smug to Anthony, he always remembered his vow to him and how Anthony was never smug to his person. Great fucking character. He just kept his loyalty to him and even asked for an order to speak his mind.
It's interesting how Antony & Vorenus' relationship was with each other earlier in the show, compared to how at the end. After everything has fallen apart for Antony, Vorenus would be his last loyal man.
the man turns loyalty into a vise
@@TentaclePentacle (vice) although there is a case for the other word
Vorenus was a very religious, conservative man. It's the source of his morals and his sense of honor. And why he clung to the old Republican ways while everyone else seemed only to care about accumulating power and winning.
He’d follow The Eagle up Pluto’s arse.
James Purefoy deserved an award for his phenomenal job he did on this great show.
Hear, hear
Such a great scene. I'm surprised Kevin didn't get more popular after this show.
the guy is doing pretty well.
He DID! He went on to do a movie with Sandra Bullock, and some other things but landed a role as Dr Owen on Greys Anatomy about 6 years going now. So residuals should hold up well. The uniform with the transverse crest has served him well.
Soap McTavish
Jez Torrent from Love Fist
array s that's what I always thought 😂😂😂 he would make a good Weasley
I love how Rome portrays Antony. Too many times, people are brought up hearing about him as little more than a brute. I was incredibly happy to see the brilliant tactician and a great manipulator of people that he was in the show
Mark Anthony is so Stoned
More stoned than The Dude.
Hahaha his whole sigh from 2:12-2:18, when you're really high and think of some dark depressing shit
Thats how life goes, you get stone and enjot it
@@mrvlnetwork fr tho lmao pretty spot on
Vorenus grew insane with rage, beyond reason that only got worse before it got better. This first happened where his anger caused his wife to commit suicide before he could regain control. Then, he nearly killed the son she sired with another man and cursed his children to Hades for helping their mother hide her secret. After cursing them....he thought they all were raped and killed and it was his fault. He grew irrational and drove his best friend Pullo away, who said "Youve got a demon in you"
So it was Pullo who actually diagnosed this sickness first
@@brunolapointe66 Pullo had the sickness in the first episode
Thanks for the update!
The second season had few moments for me except for the first episode of Caesar's funeral and the Will. The way the writers took Vorenus out was pathetic, unimaginative and indignant for the warrior and servant he was! Antony sunk into pure decadence just letting the clock run out but even those scenarios with Cleo were disgusting. Clearly the second season was working on a much tighter budget, refer to how they took out Brutus and Cassius. Octavian was portrayed as a pervert and shit head. No, no, no. He was sharper than that. Pullo screwing that flewsy on the table, Ereni in and out of the story after all that, biting the guys tongue out!? Just crap writing. Trash.
That same anger was what made him a menace on the battlefieldand and kept him alive, but it came with a payoff and that being the fact that it seemed almost impossible for him to calm down when he needed to most. When his wife passed i didnt see him calming down at all if she hadnt fallen.
Always been one of my favorite bits of acting in all of ROME. Antony has been living up the life of a god/king and is high as fuck, and when Vorenus starts telling him what's up Antony's like "whatever" and then when he says "How can you be sure of your diagnosis" and Vorenus replies "I recognize your symptoms...I have the same disease". There's a lot of way's you could play that but Purefoy (and all of us) knowing the history of Vorenus as like the most curse hounded.... just doomed, neurotic, hard ass in the whole series is thinking "Really? You...I'm like you??? FUCK ME....." and the little pause and that release of air from the lungs portrays it PERFECTLY. Just brilliant. NO ONE wants to be told they've got the same problems as Vorenus. My 2c.
Vorenus isn't a bad sort. he just has too much anger in him.
Seems like the disease they’re talking about is simply pride, but maybe that’s too simplistic. I dunno
everyone wants to be vorenus. he's an idealist and an optimist at first.
It's not my place to have an opinion , Sir.
Long one
Pozdrav kućo!
I like how Vorenus looks down on people before talking mean to them lol
+blockmasterscott I'm not entirely sure if he was being mean here. Just brutally honest. He pretty much gave Anthony what he asked for: an honest assessment.
I think it was more to do with the DRESS that Antony is wearing lol
@@kelvyquayo You know, that's a really good point, I never thought of that.
@Anti-Federalist 1776 You might be right... but in the DVD commentary they said it was the dress. lol (jokingly IIRC)
He's dressed in purple. To romans it was viewed as held for royalty alone. I figured to Lucius Vorenus he viewed Antony as getting too comfortable. Like he did in the aventine.
I love how he doesn't snitch on Posca.
What would there be to snitch about? Posca only went to look at the ships...
@@YIIMM :)
@@YIIMM but not to shipyards out of country, damn you, Posca, you old bastard
@@mr_metal. He got distracted. You look at ships, board a ship, find yourself in another country.
Though if he was told to find him he probably would’ve.
Best show ever.
My only regret about GOT was that HBO had to cancel this show to afford it.
Long live the 13th
GOT sucked. ALL CGI
This show was ages before GOT was even in a glimmer in HBO's eye.
These characters were cast absolutely perfectly.
The way he acts when Vorenus says he has the same sickness makes Antony understand the truth of it. The acting in this series is better than any award they could give in recognition.
I took this scene as symbolic as soldiers in a subtlety describing PTSD. And It's effects. No doubt Marcus Antonius was a great Warrior ruled by accounts of hasty behavior, desire & it influenced later in his reign and eventual fall. " The line I have the same symptoms" from Vorenus actaully shoock me. He isn't accusing Antony more or less conversating about there shared fate & the toll the Gaulic & Britain conquests shaped on there souls to this point post Cesaer assassination and up to this point now in Alexandria. Great writing!
@Anti-Federalist 1776 PTSD has been described for a long time my friend and is linked to psychological and neurological causes. Shell-shock is in fact one of its many names, but there are accounts from ancient Greeks which describe PTSD like symptoms, Epizelus for example. Wouldn't damage to the brain from say a mace, sword, or stone cause neurological damage? Similarly the experience of horrific emotional trauma from watching men tear each other apart with spear, arrow, and sword is unimaginable. Soldiers from all eras have experienced this to some degree.
Listen dude but you're just straight up wrong. I was wrong to equate brain damage to neurological damage, but what you're saying is not inline with a majority of studies. It's true children can show a high level of resilience towards trauma but they aren't impervious to it. 55% of Nepalese child soldiers surveyed indicated they had ptsd like symptoms
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/182377
Similar study of Ugandan children
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/208207
@Anti-Federalist 1776 people experience mental trauma when witnessing or actively participating in traumatic events. Individuals that are drone operators can develop PTSD like symptoms aswell, albeit at an incredibly low rate.
academic.oup.com/milmed/article/179/suppl_8/63/4210169
@Anti-Federalist 1776 here's another one to back up drone study I mentioned earlier www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0887618514000656
@Anti-Federalist 1776 alright man continue to spout your scientifically inaccurate bullshit. Continue to belittle the pain of others for seemingly no fucking reason other than you dont know what ptsd is or would rather change its meaning to suit whatever nonsensical reason you have.
How can this scene be tense, profound, yet supremely comical at the same time? Brilliant. A far more nuanced exploration of the concept of masculinity than could ever be found in a Gillette commercial, that's to be sure.
That commercial's credibility went down the toilet the moment it featured a clip of Ana Kasparian.
Lol,it has nothing to do with masculinity.
@@glumphyStoned OP has a point. I always thought it was about hyper conservative mentality. Other people say the "disease" is a lack of purpose, Which makes sense too.
I miss this series :(
One of the very few examples where mixing fact and fiction worked so well.
This series being canceled in its second season is a crime. I can't believe that even after they noticed that it had picked up steam, they never tried to relaunch it.
It’s interesting that Antony and Lucius couldn’t be more different in terms of their beliefs and the actions they deem appropriate, but, nonetheless, end up developing a strong solidarity toward the end of the show.
Despite their radically different personalities they have something crucial in common. They are both consummate soldiers, military men.
I think that allowed them to understand each other in a way others couldn't.
Vorenus-Pullo and Vorenus-Antony are the two most important relationships in the show. I think Pullo-Octavian was intended to be the other important relationship, but the show didn't really have time to develop it since they had to cram everything into the second season, there was too much stuff around Pullo to deal with.
So much greatness in this show.
The body language acting was as great as the dialogue itself...what a LEGENDARY TV series, I will have to re-watch AGAIN
Man, Purefoy is fantastic in this series
born for the role of Marc Antony
This is the greatest dialogue on depression in any series ever.
It's also a subtle exploration of how differently from us the Romans looked at things like depression. In their worldview, everything had metaphysical, even cosmic significance. They didn't know about the brain or neurotransmitters. To them, it was a spiritual disease
The best series ever made. Credits to HBO. Its a pity peoples like shitty things to watch on TV instead of these..
it was because of the cost per episode. it cost hbo 20 million to film a single episode!!!! that is why it was cancelled.
We have BTS 🤣🤣
Vorenus. Whistle Blower. (Cause he blows his whistle in battle)
lol
but I actually didn't need it expalined
Idk why I laughed so fucking hard at this, lol.
Those two together are some of the best scenes in this series....
The sickness is most likely PTSD of a veteran soldier.
The things I would give to hear James Purefoy’s reading of Mark Antony’s eulogy in Shakespear’s Julius Caesar.
I was a bit disappointed when they didn't even attempt it. They have the same source Shakespeare had, maybe they could have focused on different portions. To be the person who overwrites Billy as the quintessentially writer of Antony's funeral oration would mark a person for a similar perpetual veneration.
the casting on this show was really just perfection on another level. i can't think of a a SINGLE miscast character. even the minor ones like Agrippa, or that friend of Octavia's. i loved their take on Cleopatra too; not some voluptuous Venus rising out of the furs but this slight, almost elfin girl with the brightness of incredible intelligence in her eyes.
Love the way you describe them and so true! Right down to Caesar and Servilia ... brilliant!
@@gravityseducer dude totally. and Atia!!! omg. i started out almost hating Atia and by the end she was the main character for me. i still remember her absolutely crushing line to Livia, which i think was also the last line of the whole show: "Better women than you have tried. Go and look for them now." -- which! in a way was also a tribute to her great nemesis Servilia, who in a weird way i think she respected as much as she hated.
Agrippa was reduced to nothing more than a stud in this series. Absolute waste of what a great asset he was to Octavian! Pure crap! The second season was mostly soft porn.
Lyndsey Marshal is my favorite Cleopatra of all time.
@@taroman7100 I think its pretty clear the character was going to get his dues provided the show didn't get canned early. I think Actium would have been his moment to shine. And don't get me started on the stuff that would have been going on in the East with Antony (mainly Parthia) It's a travesty we didn't get the seasons they wanted to make.
It's a darned shame that we today barely see any sign of excellent actors like James Purefy
Probably my most favorite series of all time. Seasons one and two. Vorenus and Pullo are without a doubt my most favorite characters of all time. I always wished HBO would do another Rome, perhaps set in Byzantium towards the height of the Eastern Empire.
In Constantinople,ot would be awesome. But with european actors,and greek and balkan historians.
@@alakhazom Sadly, it not would be like that today. They would be SJW writers and make half the crew black men and women.
@@DutchGuyMike Yeah,that's what i was thinking also.
Wanna check out some disgusting stuff?
Check out "historian" gives opinion on mythology-something like that.
The man is clearly an liberal,and quite dumb in many aspects of that video.
Apparently the "rich" history of sub saharans influenced the greek culture,if you didn't know already...
It's unfortunate that the two TV movies about Lucius Vorenus and Titus Pullo never got past the planning stages.
Brilliantly written scene. Happy I could find it so easy on UA-cam.
Such wisdom and tension
That sad moment when you realise you're a blend between Vorenus and Antony..
its because you're a pajeet
@Avi just make sure you don’t make girls off themselves like Vorenus.
With none of the badassery
Please stop.
@Avi I felt, I really felt what Sumit has written, but you fucking butchered me here. so sad
i love how is playing catch with pullo's kid
How i miss the days of old, this was television, brilliant and perfectly written.
"I'm not a doctor." How ironic...
apinanpoikaerkki he is a doctor in Grey Anatomy 😂😂
@@introvertdude842 Don't explain the joke bro.
Anthony was arrogant but as a superior and comrade he was loyal and always helpful. Like he said himself: he was soldier and not politician. Unlike Octavian who was politican and not soldier. Pullo knew at the end of the series that Octavian was not his friend.
I think Octavian definitely viewed Pullo as a friend, I just think Octavian wouldn’t hesitate to kill him if it helped further his goals or secure his position in some way. I think Caesar’s murder was a cemented lesson in his mind.
This is the perfect description of PTSD. There is no greater description of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (PTSD). I could describe it a million times, to a million. This is one of the best. I'm a Afghanistan war veteran. Served 2011-2012
That is the sigh of a man who has just experienced the mother of all truth bombs. Great acting.
What a show. Loved it from the start and never missed an episode. Well casted.
"what is this disease?" First recorded diagnosis of clinical depression :P
When you understand the whole series from beginning to end. When Vorenus says he has the same sickness, Mark Anthony shakes his head and understands. It hits hard after two seasons.
this show was ahead of its time
This show was a masterpiece. It was such a good show and the actors and actresses were perfect for their roles and it really painted the environment between roman life of nobility and the people of rome. Production was very expensive per episode and the show was not really getting profits from sales. That's really the only way a show survives is popularity and if the market sales doubles their profits from the show, then they probably would have continued to 6 seasons or more. But not many were interested in Rome history. They had to pave way for other shows that made sense for HBO.
I just watched this series this past weekend. Although Mark Antony was a very layered character, I did not have much of an opinion about him throughout. Sometimes I liked him. Sometimes I didn't. But the final episode where he dies had me in tears. It was sad to see him completely broken.
what a show, amazing acting... so well put together
Ah, “I don’t know.. but I recognise the symptoms; I have the same sickness.” Good dialogue.
I don’t know about everyone else, but for some reason this scene makes me feel incredibly bad and sad for Antony
Same disease... different methods of self-medication.
I hear you
Anthony's reaction to the last line. So good.
Purefoy played Antony perfectly. Spot on, if history is anything to go by.
His "disease" was going native. The Romans hated when real born Romans such as Mark Anthony forgot being Roman and adopted the customs of the natives in their conquered territories. Octavian exploited this to bring down Mark Anthony's popularity in Rome and eventually defeated him.
Or maybe just getting an existential crisis after daddy jules died
It's true that Romans looked down on those who "went native". However, remember that we only have Imperial sources for Antony's fall into decadence and they would, of course, be strongly inclined to justify Octavian's war against Antony by whatever means. Is it possible that Antony tatted himself up and started worshipping Ra? Sure. But we'll never know for certain if this was actually the case or if he was libeled by later historians.
@@Zapp__Brannigan very good points and a well balanced take. (sincerely). i’m inclined to add two thoughts that usually don’t get discussed with the Antony-Octavian denouement was that many sources seem to suggest that he and Cleo definitely participated in pagan nilotic rituals as Cleo’s people tried and looks like successfully convinced Antony that he was the living embodiment of Dionysus and the god of wine and revelry so he played the part or maybe even believed it which i think is more than grounds to say he most likely did adopt Egyptian esoteric cult of Dionysus/Osiris. Why else would he take the extra step and name Helios and Selene heirs to Rome in West upon his death, if the stolen will wasn’t a forged propaganda document by Octavian, unless he went full native?
@@Zapp__Brannigan I guess you consider starving almost an entire million person city for no good reason "going native"
What you're saying is just a symptom of deep depression, lack of purpose, consuming rage, lust for Cleopatra
This "disease of the soul" is what linked Vorenus and Antony.
Pullo didn't have it which is why he got along with Octavian.
I am thinking the disease is a self-destructive need for something unobtainable.
Any more specific thoughts on this?
I think that it's a rage and other emotions that drive them into insanity.
Also lack of purpose after the death of Niobe and Ceasar.
@@MyPrideFlag Yes. Great points.
These days we'd say depression, which, in men, often manifests as rage outbursts and self destructive behaviour
This scene speaks volumes to me as does all 22 hours of this epic. The disease he speaks of reminds me of my alcoholism, and I definitely recognize the symptoms. Thank God I woke up sober.
This was, hands down, the greatest series ever created on HBO. It's a crime punishable by death that it didn't get past S2
One of the best parts of Rome was the study of close relationships between unequals.
The best of these was between Anthony and Vorenus.
Also Caesar and Posca.
Octavian and Pullo.
Best show ever produced.
*The disease is depression, cynicism, nihilism, fatalism, and overall being dead on the inside. Losing one's sense of purpose, identity, and meaning.*
I love how even though Vorenus has lost everything, his wife, the love of his children, his home, he takes solace in caring for his one friend's son.
Mark Anthony in this scene is depression personified. It really sucks to be in that state.
When Antony blows air out at the end its like he's saying "Whew....we ARE fucked aren't we."
The crucial scene of the last part of this brilliant series.
I too live with that disease after years in the military. At the end of the day, no matter what you have in this life, you will be judged on your final actions and how you treated people in a fair manner.
No disease, duty.
Most underrated HBO series ever. They will never top Rome.
The wealth and pleasure in Egypt was eating away their soul; they’ve lost the values of being a Roman
I wonder if the "disease" they both share is there inability to reign in their anger and how much that has cost them?
It's herpes
@Vance Humphrey thanks Vance, I see I also used the wrong spelling for "their" the first time but got it correct the second time...all in the same sentence!
Bluesborn - I like your theory.
@@snigie1 this made me nearly spit out my drink. Good one 😂
Wow, from heroine overdose victim to first spear centurion. I'm glad things worked out for Tommy
Holy shit, they are the same actor?!
I never realized until now!
I knew the struggle eventually would pay off
Getting out of the Scottish air and to Egypt did him well
I have no idea who's the Tommy character other than what you wrote but being Vorenus isn't much of an improvement.
Vorenus was in deep depression at this stage of the show.
Such great acting.
Just fantastic!
I was blown away by this series. I bought both seasons and watched again with the "All Roads Lead To Rome" option
awesome!!
That eye makeup is the sexiest thing ever put to film.
I have that sickness as well... You go through so much in life that you just dont give much of a fuck anymore and the only thing keeping you going is that one thing your good at...
One of my favorite scenes from this series
These lines, this dialogue…this is what made Rome such an incredible series
I was so angry at HBO for truncating five or six seasons of ROME into the final (mostly ruined) season 2 that I could never really forgive, or enjoy, GAME OF THRONES (the show HBO chose over ROME for mega financing). ROME, Season 1 was so good. Then HBO did the same with DEADWOOD. A few months ago I read that Pullo (Ray Stevenson) had died a few days before his 59th birthday. I've never actually met the guy but I felt as if I'd had a kick in the stomach. Some part of me always hoped to see Pullo and Vorenus together again. Now it can never be.
“You’re no coward. But you are wearing a pink dress, sir”
Fuck, that was a great show. The writing stops being a script and becomes literature, sometimes.
HE BLACKENS HIS EYES WITH SOOT!
LIKE A PROSTITUTE!
Me to girl I'm trying to date: "You have a social awkwardness in yours soul. It'll eat away at you in conversations until the day you die."
Girl: "Oh and how can you be so sure I have this awkwardness?"
Me: "I recognize your symptoms... I have the same sickness."
*says while not making eyecontact and b-line for the door*
Love an operator work. Every moment is so breathtaking and natural. Somehow an operator makes everyone even greater in the series
This is one of the best series ever.
This scene is beautiful
If real mark Antony shows up before me ,I'd still think of james purefoy
Reality check. Only a true friend will rip the bandage off to deal with the problem.
It was such a major fuck up to cancel this show.
They had to. The production costs were too much. They were filming on location.
Vorenus' expression the first couple seconds of this clip is hilarious. He looks at Antony like, "WTF are you wearing?". Which was my question too. His downward spiral is already well underway
Its a crime this series got cut short, in a better world we would've gotten the series this deserved to be. So much got glossed over or completely skipped which is such a shame, probably would've been a strong contender for best show of all time.