As a Steve Fox and Bryan main, I’m afraid I can’t agree. I’m something special you know? I’ve got the skill, but my character just keeps dragging me down and my opponents don't play right *sniffs cocaine*
What do you mean since tag 1 lol, both tekken 5 and tekken 5 dr had a monster kazuya. And if we’re being even more technical here, then he was busted in the arcade version of tekken 6
"Usually my tier lists are 3 hours, I already feel like I'm indulging a little bit, so I am going to try to be a little bit faster." *Looks at time of video* Hell yeah.
Its annoying to see that people here do not realize he is ranking the characters based on the pro scene. He says it perfectly in the end of the video, that this tierlist does not work with online intermediate ranks, it is about offline pros.
More than a half of S and S+ characters can be played by a drunken monkey at full potential. Meaning there isnt much difference compared to skilled player and casual. Same broken moves that do everything and force you to guess even if youre the most skilled player
@@euomu realistically only pros have the time to to lab 32 characters for casuals and frequent players its way too much information to remember and way to much time to spend
@@kragafestthe1st784I could literally practice every day for 2 months and not be able to hold all that info in my head. This is clearly years of experience
@@young8584true reina is only scary is the player is really good, unlike jin you can turn your brain off and still have your opponent shitting their pants
I watched 2 and a half hours of mainman content and I'm not disappointed! Thanks to you I now know that Alisa is not only the cutest but also the most fair and balanced character and I will drop all other characters and become an Alisa main! Thanks!
Following you for years but never commented. These guides and explanations are pretty useful not only for beginners but higher levels as well. Keep up the great work TMM.
His d2 is stupid make it -16 on block. If you want the heatsmash nerfed then give him either better heat moves of buff the range of his power stance. I'm saying this as a Jin main btw. Also make his zen cancel the same as tekken 7.
I feel like Devil Jin’s gonna be bad until we reach the point where we start getting more attacks. He’s a poke heavy character with shit poking & easy to counter gimmicks. This character was doomed from the door.
Devil Jin still had access to 1,1 confirm into 1,1,2. It's his saving grace when you don't know what to do in neutral. But he does need a better mid. The only decent plus frame mid is uf3, and that's simply too slow, linear and risky. You could argue his archetype of character doesn't deserve good mids due to his hellsweep, so perhaps a buff to df1 would be better. Until then, we gonna skeet again with while rising 2 🗿🔥
finally someone that remembers tier lists are made for the highest skill level, not the average player online. Lars is definitely in lower half of the tier list bcs he has no chance in tournaments but i will continue shitting on lars players below tekken king.
I really like this video, it helps me understand the cast way more. It’s crazy how much knowledge you have on every character & can explain what precisely is good about everyone instead of just calling them op and saying bombastic things
I don't get why ppl put Eddy to bottoms, since even pro can't react to his 50/50, and he is way more succesfull in tournament then half of the cast. Yes, it's more about the player behind the character, but the objective data must be in 1st place.
He has other problems like a consistent usuable WS 15 along with him being very high risk as opposed to others that have high reward but jot as high risk. Plus u have to assume most are privy to his gimmicks once u get beyong intermediate play
He is super liniar, he has no good fast pokes, his stance mixup has bad risk reward factor plus in most cases you can just backdash out of clean hit range of his hellsweep from negativa. His handstance has no mixup without charges and in most cases you dont have tiem to get and use em, and all moves that give you charges are unsafe outside combo.
Not gonna lie as a long time yoshi player I’m both sad and happy he’s so strong in this game cus like I wanna play my boy but like I also see him so often now it’s just not as fun
Facts DVJ eats 💩 for his power crush while some characters can abuse theirs stay safe and enter heat through it all characters power crush should be block punishable it's literally a armor move meant to tank a hit.
Quick PSA d343 on Nina is *NOT* a good move to use on block like the way mmswe is suggesting here. If your opponent is cracked they'll duck the second hit, but even if they aren't, they can reverse the third hit. you're *not* jailed after the second hit the way mmswe is suggesting. plus -7 is rps territory. getting in the habit of using things like this as a panic button is really bad because you put yourself in a mixup whenever it gets blocked and that's if you don't eat the duck or reversal. overall not s great move to rely on.
You can also just dickjab it if you're not confident with the duck launch. In any case itl make any worth their salt nina think twice about using it. people shouldn't let her get away with this.
Im pretty shit at tekken, and im a shaheen main, He isnt as flashy as some characters but he is really damn good so he definitely S tier. Especially if I as a D tier player can learn combos that take to the wall and smaller combos that do heaps of damage.
@user-hf2zi8bk6r Someone missed the point entirely. I'm not saying those are the reasons he is good. I'm saying the fact I can learn to do these things without too much difficulty as a casual player that only gets to play 1-2 times a week makes him good in *my opinion* homeboy gotta learn to read for real.
As a Devil Jin main I tried shaheen online and I don’t think he’s boring at all. He has an answer for nearly every situation and can be played different ways with the fact that he’s ment to be a heavily based fundamental character. His reach game is as solid as his mix up. After playing him for some time, I’ve gotten a little better with DJ because the character forced me to try new things and taught me to have more patience when playing defensively. He deserves more credit.
I'm a ranked scrub and I hate Bryan. I feel like I'm playing Hearthstone against Bryan, just taking turns. 70% of his stuff either launches or counter hit launches with safe on block moves, half of it is very inconsistent to sidestep, and when you get launched he hits like a truck - over 100 damage without wasting heat into 50/50 OKI that if you lose you are almost at a rage art level, all of that for a bad read in the neutral/start of the round.
@@Darkness2Maxrocko what's there to lab? I'm honestly asking. Cause there's like two moves you can duck, I'll give you that. But at the same time he's got mixup on these with mids to screw you over. Most of his moves are either neutral on frames or push you too far for you to punish him. No reason to sidestep him too either, most of his shit tracks for some reason and it can also counter hit launch you for trying to sidestep it lol.
@@MerrStudioThere’s no reason to duck Bryan, you can see his snake edge and no other low does anything to you besides hatchet knocking you down on counter. You can punish Bryan on every launcher he has except jet upper, every low he has is also punishable. Bryan is extremely linear and very weak to quick pokes and attacks from crouching. Oddly enough, you kill Bryan by showing him no respect and challenging him, but do so with fast moves/pokes. Remember that your character, no matter who they are is much faster than Bryan. Bryan is a character that capitalizes on the opponent’s flaws, beating Bryan regularly as you rank up is a great sign that you have tight gameplay.
@@MerrStudio most of his moves are actually minus, but he threatens extensions on almost all of them which CH. If you block his extensions though, it's your turn, as well as if you block his normal moves it's also your turn if he doesn't extend, so play defensively, poke him down and don't mash and he cannot do shit
Yeah he is fine to play against now. People no longer complain.... until you pick a character that lacks a 15f ws launcher and you question ur life choices 🥲
@@Just_a_niceguy yea i love playing zafina but my goodness... not having a 15F launch punish or any sort of throw that triggers any stage mechanics/oki situations hurts sometimes. For tourneys it makes sense that guys like Shadow have other characters they switch to depending on the matchup for these reasons mainly. In ranked there is no switching, though... Just gotta stare at some dude throwing unsafe moves out like crazy knowing at worst he takes like 50 damage intead of a full combo into oki as most of the roster gets. I get it though. Zaf's offensive mix/pressure, and evasion are S tier... she can't have everything but as a player I want everything haha
I actually kind of like the fact that hei’s main weakness is his vulnerabilities to lateral maneuvers. As you mentioned the df1 is a consistent tool that can be converted into a charged 2, but is interruptible. Sure, it’s a big second hit with good minus frames and healing, but it’s hard to throw it out all the time. That has me considering how I approach my opponent even when it comes to just poking, which was something I never felt was conveyed well to me when I picked up Reina. I feel like I’ve learned the game more and suffered less for it since switching over. Also warrior instinct makes me feel so good and looks so much cooler than any other character specific condition.
It seems that he's done downplaying Kazuya since he switched mains to Heihachi. I know that the old man isn't that good but the downplaying is really evident. He didn't even mention Heihachi's top tier punishment and his b1+2 in the video. He's definitely a lot riskier to play than most characters with his commital poking and cinematic whiff animations but he also punishes risky opponents hard, both with his insane block punishment, and his ludicrous electric damage for whiff punishing. Also It's funny how he mentioned that other characters can be as strong as him in warrior instinct with only their heat. But the thing is, he gets his powered-up state for the entire round and isn't bound to a heat timer. Plus, he still has his own heat that could make him even crazier during its duration.
@@bekabex8643 I don't really know why Law's winrate is bad but he definitely looks insane on paper. I'd say that Heihachi is more in-line with someone like Lili. They both reward strong fundamental players with really good moves but they still feel fair to play against.
I still remember going to arcades and playing tekken, seeing King, this pro wrestler with a jaguar mask was such a funny and interesting concept. Happy to see he's still one of the best characters to play in the game. Nina, Yoshi and Law still up there as well.
Not that it matters much, but yoshis Flash is 8f if you want to launch with it outside of heat, not 6f. Hes still very overpowered, but just wanted to clear that out.
Steve basically just has B1. And it is still arguably the best on the game... but yea it is false to call him the counter hit king when T8 King exists and others. I like new Steve but miss old Steve too. Other youtubers claiming he has no identity, I highly disagree with but it is very different now. He is a safe evasive stance character now.
Having no single hit mid ch launchers besides flk 2 really hurts man, evasive characters just shit on Steve. Fighting against a good Asuka, Jun or Zafina is just pure torture with Steve, while these characters are usually super easy to deal with on my side character Lee. B1 damage also could be better, for example Paul gets 74-80 damage with his df2 which is also 13 frames and a regular hit launcher that evades highs. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the same damage off of B1, a riskier move since it has to be crouch canceled and doesn't evade.
Lili can't loop Feisty Rabbit oki anymore. Dew3 flips them too far away. Very strong but not a vortex like before. Otherwise fair assessment of the character.
he did say at the wall, and you still can at the wall. However it's not a guaranteed looping of feisty rabbit anymore that grants another uninterruptible FR mix like it was before the nerfs.
No kidding about Zafina's db 1+2 low (snake edge) always hitting. No one blocks it. I'm only at tekken king but no one blocks this thing intentionally it seems. It is absolutely reactable on paper but still no one does. Like Mainman said, just no one recognizes it. I think it has a lot to do with her other CH move of just 1+2, where she kinda awkward just swings both her arms at you. The start up to her low attack looks almost just like that at the beginning of the animation so I think many see it and by the time they realize it isn't the mid coming out their feet are hit.
Zafina is pretty strong but she also has the advantage of being a rare matchup for most people. She's kind of like AKI where her movement and animations are unique but really weird, a lot of people find it offputting but it's great for those that enjoy more odd characters. Likewise Shaheen has the opposite problem where he's still good but a lot of people find him too plain and not really standing out in a series with a lot of definable characters.
@@brentthompson1607 I meant more for an easy and contemporary comparison, they are both comparible in their aesthetics. I'm not referring to who came first as it isn't something I'm arguing. By that line of thinking then I could say Zafina is like Voldo. I'm refering to an archetype of wierdo movement characters, I didn't say Zafina came before AKi, just that they are alike in some aspects.
@Lemonpeppergoblin well my friends that are all tekken kings at the lowest and TGS on average have 100s of games against my zafina and they STILL don't block it bc "it looks just like her mid". So I'm just trying to make the point that even with matchup experience the two moves look so similar that reacting to it is very difficult, which is why even the pros that absolutely are labbing the matchup bc of guys like ShadowOz still struggle with that move in particular. Her 1+2 and db 1+2 only start to visually look different after like the 12th frame of a 26 frame move. Theoretically meaning you are trying to react to a 14 frame low. Idk if I'm explaining it well enough to illustrate that.
As a new player to Tekken…not having legacy knowledge on how the game works this is so frustrating. Thanks for these videos hopefully I can get better at this game.
Considering how bad he was for all of T7, it's like he's back home in the bottom tier lol Now if only his old friend Gigas was still here to keep him company... 😔
What I like about TMM is when he is giving these tierlist rundown he don't give shit to the characters he despises (Ling, Asuka, Alisa, etc.) and actually gave them genuine detailed explanation on why they are on that tier😂
Can someone please explain to me why people are getting such a hard on saying Kazuya is a hard character? I simply do not understand this notion from a gamer perspective. I am relatively new to Tekken, never played 7, 6 or other fighting games. Ranked up to Rajin and everytime I see Kazuyas they play the absolute same, I dont even see a difference between a beginner Kazuya and a Rajin. They spam counter hit stuff and as soon as you get hit once, they run up to you while you are on the ground and they get 50/50s (I would even say it's more like 75/25s at this point) I just lost to someone who knocked me down once and I couldnt get up anymore. Guessed wrong 3 times and round is over. ANYONE can do that, where is the skill involved? It's such a weird game, that guy could have beaten the best player in the world if he got his lucky counter hit in once. Which other MMR ranked PvP game is build up like that? Could I beat the best Fifa player in the world? The best counter strike team? Best moba team? Best Rainbow6 Team? Best Rocket League player? Ofc not... But I could beat (not consistently ofc) the best Tekken player in the world. Is this the appeal of the game???
@@Mhashim118 Thanks, and you sound really dumb right now. He lost 4 rounds against someone who literally just picked up the game. Want to see that in a game like Rocket League, grandmaster level vs someone who just installed the game, doesnt matter if "giving it his all" or not
Surprisingly decent list apart from the massive bias for 3 characters. Overrating "final boss" Jun and Ling whilst criminally underrating "honest" Heihachi. Not bad
Yeh I mean he did say the tier placements don’t matter too much but imo xiayou if she was s tier would be at the very bottom of it but I’d place her mid A tier
29:35 Not disagreeing with the placement, but wasn’t this throw made to come out at 14f to avoid this, or am I misremembering? Don’t play Law since the dss change so I’m might not be the most up to date
About Law and Xiaoyu. 1) Law got crazy buffs but he needs them to compencate his big nerfs in t8. In t7 his ff43 and 3+4 4 were the greatest whiff punishers in the game. Now 3+4 4 is just decent while ff43 was deleted at all. And in t7 he has backturned mixup that has both mid and high launchers (now it's gone). Without his new tools he would be weak (especially in ultra attacking game, while in t7 he was more defensive character). The new DSS is not as good as many think it is. It is easier to enter but it also has some weird timing when you can press (in t7 it wasn't). So now you can jab interrupt him in most of his transitions if he doesn't do perfect dss timing (even pros can't do it 10 of 10) - in t7 if you can do dss, noone can interrupt any kick transition even on block. 2) Xiaoyu's Hypnotist mixup is safe for a reason. You can't just mix your opponent in neutral like classic mixup-character: you need to go into heat, then do a linear string into Hypnotist, then wait a bit (even if you do your attacks immediately, every character can interrupt you on block), and only then you can mix your opponent with the deadliest 50/50. And even then if your opponent guess right, he can lauch you (the mid is stepable in both sides while you can hopkick the low). That's why her mix is so safe on block - the risk is smeared. You can punish her a lot even before she can even get a chance to mix you - if the mixup was still launch-punishable on block, it will be garbage mix. And still you can utilize this mixup once per round (at best twice). Outside of heat she is not as scary.
i can tell you know how to use Law. As a Law main i can confirm this. my entire playstyle in 7 is now impossible to do in 8 because they got removed or severely nerfed where they cant even CH launch. Main man also forgot to mention, the heat options he gets are easily side steppable where if you get sidestepped you are practicaly dead. his dss is interruptable and i still dont get the timing for perfect dss transitions in T8 (in offline, its a million times easier).
Nah law mains seriously your major risk you’re taking with dss loops is a JAB interrupt and that’s IF YOU fuck up your DSS cancels, and at worst you eat a jab between those loops, imo they did buff with other stuff like his goddamn nunchucks and having a 10frame ch launcher in heat, his poking remains good I agree he did get some big nerfs but at least make it so easy mode dss gives less frames and if you do the old hard version you get the right plus frames
@@pranavjain8774 most of the characters have dangerous couterhit strings in 10 frames (or their jabs have a huge damage). And to fuck up DSS is kinda easy - the new trasition didn't allow to do dss staple. In previous game if you can do dss, it won't let you down - now it did (in almost every match). Nunchucks is-13 on block. And if you are far away they arelinear in both sides.
@ I’m talking about in heat and if you space it properly hard to punish also he’s the only one with a 10f ch LAUNCHER, ws4 ch at the wall is litteraly just killing you What are you saying jabs have huge damage ? It’s still not close to laws, fucking dss up in combos is way harder than in older games, the reason you got access to all those frames was the difficulty, less difficulty= give less damn frames His combo damage with dss staples is just fine it was very hard to get consistent even in 7
She's the most high-risk high-reward character out of all the stance-mixup-heavy characters. Given the nature of this archetype, characters like her, Lars, Eddy, etc will never be top tier. They're simply unreliable and not suited for steady gameplay. That said, I love her too and I accept her as the character she is supposed to be.
I just hate invisible ninjas that fly all over the screen. I don't like to play against them. It doesnt mean I dont win with Them, but I dont take pleasure from playing against them: Victor, Alisa, Raven and Yoshi sometimes
Bryan lost a lots of CH from T7 already, his startup always too slow and had so much -10 on block than any character, his iconic taunt also got nerf the tracking Anything you do Against Bryan is just block and duck, if you know how to Duck against him then he f up
@@Kazusus0 I would nerf his qcb1. It's startup is 13-14 frames, it counterhit launches and is +5 on block. So many players just abuse this move to lock down their opponent. It's absolutely ridiculous, and he doesn't need it (saying this as a Bryan player). Make the move +1 or +2 on block and I think Bryan is in a much better place. And make it recover slower on whiff.
Every character has grabs. King has a hard time getting his turn back against fast 50/50 string machines like Zafina, Xiayou, and Eddie. He has nothing besides throws. Many other characters to complain about.
@@tristanherb49exactly him being able to speed blitzed devil jin is a joke, this 325lb bruiser is faster than a whole demon with wings seriously 🤣 he's actually super fast to say the least and can press with the best of them.
@@NineTails87 "He has nothing besides throws" you gotta be joking. He has great poking, one of the best non heat engager pc in the game, one of the best heat smashes that hits grounded too, great lows and an evasive spin. It's a really solid and rounded character and you can easily demolish people without using throws. Add to that the absurd damage he can do mixing up with throws and you have a literal demon.
@dade97asd96 Great lows? You realize I'm talking about King, not Zafina or Xiayou, right? Ffn2 is all he has for lows. His heat smash is slow in a game where people can just throw it out after activation. His counter hit df2 combo is impossible to do on female characters as well and hard to hit confirm in general. You have a point, there are good things about him but he struggles in high level play. I'm Tekken King rank btw.
Raven is my main, with Hwoarang being secondary. Raven is fair and really cool, but he can afford to be a little broken after what Master Raven had to go through to be decent.
@shatter5922 he's especially good at the average level of play because he is so easy to do high damage deadly mixups from full screen and such, just annoying imo
finally someone with a fair take on shaheen, he’s solid but people keep throwing him in like broken s tier character territory. To me shaheen is the “ryu” of the game. all rounder. his main downside is that he doesn’t have a lot of moves. not a lot of stuff you can throw out and expect people to fall for if they know the match up. I think he’s super cool, he’s my main. I also feel he’s a good bar for balancing. I want all characters to feel strong but need to rely on their character and player expression through that character Ie you are playing that character for reasons other than a tier list. He doesn’t have a high pick rate but he’s my main, and you can tell who has a more advanced shaheen by combo routes, he has some very interesting routes and his while standing 3 loops are not easy if you are going for 2 to 3 reps. In fact his combo damage is fairly low for what tekken 8 is as some characters can get over 80 to 90 with very easy routes. You will be lucky to break over 70 without heat, rage or stage gimmicks with Shaheen. Only way to really do so is master stance cancels and ws3 loops. he’s strong but not broken and i feel your placing is accurate. He is very steppable and his aerial moves you have to space well and his heat smash as they typically will get gobbled up by other moves or you will be counter hit he is steppable as well. He feels like a shorter range kazuya in a way. anyways….
Been enjoying Paul a lot despite some rough matchups Personally struggle against Nina, Alisa and Wifi Law players. Haven't had as many Mishima's last I played but probably due to current rank. Still hoping for my old T7 mains to come back with Josie and Miguel. Trying to settle on another main right now, Heihachi was my fav of the og Mishimas so maybe him or Reina. Jack-8 and King are fun to mess around with (mostly due to watching Brawlpro and Coney).
the Jun segment sounds like it was written by someone who knows shes a bottom 5 character but just lost a set to her 5 mintues ago and is struggling to rationalize it
Something about zafina that nobody ever mentions, but is crucial. That you can block from her mantis stance. I don't know how many rounds I have won by just baiting an unsafe attack. It has great neutral movement and mix aswell. Just transition into mantis play neutral and watch them kill themselves.. Muwahahaha! You did mention the counter but I think it might be the best counter in the game even with taking damage.
As a King player, they need to remove the armor on his Toll Kick (b3). It’s a reasonably quick, high, power crush that’s only -10 on-block and deals 47 damage with the follow-up. Whenever I throw that move out, I feel like I’m cheating. Edit: As for Xiaoyu, the only thing I think I’d change is her RDS heat smash; you shouldn’t be forced into a HYP mixup if you get hit by the heat smash. Aside from that, HYP 1 and her heat strings (f2,1,2 & ff1,2) are easily steppable and she dies if those moves whiff.
I can agree, it used to be just a whiff punisher in T7 but removing it would remove a big part of King's defensive options and his identity with power crushes. If they remove the power crush, they need to buff the oki back, but also have more compensation like making it -9 or buffing the damage. Honestly, I think they should just nerf the muscle armor, something like making his follow up heat dash not a full launch.
I agreed to, i main Bryan and Alisa, i have a great reflex to do sweet SS but it always won't work against the tracking of b3 though i can see that hitbox looking completely far from hurt box and still hit
@ Exactly, f2,1 would be his heat engager whiff-punish, and b3 would be his damaging whiff-punish. It was safe in T7, so yes, I’d agree that removing the armor and making it -8/9 would be perfect.
@@JBlxckklol don't tell me you can read or react to several-frame moves on command. Lidia literally has one safe move in each of her stances (casino character af), while other characters always have a whole movelist to choose from. Besides, you can always jab her out of her stances with ease.
There’s just no reason to duck lee. A lot of characters have a guaranteed low high string on hit. Hwoarang, Claudio, Leroy, and even Lars just to name a few. Tbh honest I thought this buff was gonna come in T7. People acted like it was hellsweep 😂
What you said about raven is true but he is still strong when it comes to spacing and whiff punish but he feels like the most balanced, if you lose against raven its either reason is knowledge check or poor low awareness or just fair lose. And his gameplay feels more effort than most characters since majority are like A tiers or S tiers right now
Does anyone even like the concept of jailing? It always seem silly to me that I'm forced to stand block after reading the high correctly, but the game is saying "lol no how dear you try to duck in a 3d fighting game."
I can agree with the concept of jailing on hit with non natural strings, but I agree, on block I feel you should always be able to duck. Glad I watched this video though bc while I don't run into Nina's for example very often... It is a matter of time before I attempt to duck her df1, 2 and get pissed that it didn't work. At least now I will hopefully remember "yea it would of never worked so I won't try"
I love Leo's bok but doing it in a pro's face will probably get you launched, even if it's mid string. Out of the moves you mentioned, I like uf2 1, qcf2, & df3 as the risk is low. I still use the other moves, but they've gotten me fucked up before. All lows are either steppable or i20+, & all are a minimum -11 on block. All of the risks are sometimes very rewarding tho! Wish they had better tracking & range, or slightly better frames.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/n.gif)
Remember people: any character can beat you, and you can beat anyone with any character.
As a Kazuya/Jun main those words truly touched my soul. Truly a quote to live by.
@@ArasakaDavidyou must change up your game plan then buddy
As a Steve Fox and Bryan main, I’m afraid I can’t agree. I’m something special you know? I’ve got the skill, but my character just keeps dragging me down and my opponents don't play right *sniffs cocaine*
A fighting game is always a 2v2!! Character v Character and Player v Player 💯
TMM persisting with the nonsense that T8 is 'tEh MoSt BaLaNcEd TeKkEn EvAh', I see, just like he did with T7.
Kazuya being S tier is something we haven’t seen since Tag 1. They really fixed Kazuya, neighbor.
Since Tekken 5
It's nonsense. Kazuya is mid tier _at best_ in T8.
What do you mean since tag 1 lol, both tekken 5 and tekken 5 dr had a monster kazuya. And if we’re being even more technical here, then he was busted in the arcade version of tekken 6
@@davidparry5310silence Gods of Destruction, a Garyu is talking ahh comment
@@coteriea5170for what its worth, he was a strong character in tag 2. S tier is shaky but he was a threat always
"Usually my tier lists are 3 hours, I already feel like I'm indulging a little bit, so I am going to try to be a little bit faster."
*Looks at time of video*
Hell yeah.
Yes, he achieved his goal of "being a little bit faster".
30 minutes shorter, maybe next tier list will be 2:20 minutes long
Its annoying to see that people here do not realize he is ranking the characters based on the pro scene. He says it perfectly in the end of the video, that this tierlist does not work with online intermediate ranks, it is about offline pros.
More than a half of S and S+ characters can be played by a drunken monkey at full potential. Meaning there isnt much difference compared to skilled player and casual. Same broken moves that do everything and force you to guess even if youre the most skilled player
@@crazy911wmanthe garyu has spoken.
@@Rius9106 I bet kids who know this meme will bring you likes and happyness but lets get serious pls
The pro scene = mainman ranked
@@crazy911wmanthe garyu has spoken…
its impressive how tmm remembers the movelist of the entire cast while filming, this is probably the most well made tierlist in t8 so far
You'd be able to do that too if you labbed the roster
@@euomu realistically only pros have the time to to lab 32 characters for casuals and frequent players its way too much information to remember and way to much time to spend
@@kuwaitian1579dawg it literally takes a week, maybe even 2
@@kragafestthe1st784I could literally practice every day for 2 months and not be able to hold all that info in my head. This is clearly years of experience
people seem to be having a hard time understanding that not everyone has so much time to play a f*cking video game🤣
I'm honestly kind of happy Reina is still strong since she's pretty fun to watch, Yagami's run in EWC was a sight to behold
Tekken Reddit has been on this ongoing bout saying she's bottom tier at worst and mid tier at best. Based solely on winrate online mind you ..
@@Manley156 shes solid its on the player to win with her and less the character IMO
@@young8584true reina is only scary is the player is really good, unlike jin you can turn your brain off and still have your opponent shitting their pants
@@Manley156 well yeah it's tekken reddit. so many special needs people there
@@Manley156 oh yeah cherry picking reddit comments is always a good way to portray a community as a whole....
Id appreciate a "how to counter" list as well and a defensive guide to these.
Main man said he’s working on counter play guides to release sometime
I watched 2 and a half hours of mainman content and I'm not disappointed! Thanks to you I now know that Alisa is not only the cutest but also the most fair and balanced character and I will drop all other characters and become an Alisa main! Thanks!
Following you for years but never commented.
These guides and explanations are pretty useful not only for beginners but higher levels as well.
Keep up the great work TMM.
Jin players will see this and make every excuse in the book that he’s not good
Right?! Just take the free wins with your easy character and shut up
Jincord literally complains about how broken Jin is ;-; I've never seen a Jin player downplay just my experience
@@Flintc08 "I do play a strong character" thats it, just admit it and move on
His d2 is stupid make it -16 on block. If you want the heatsmash nerfed then give him either better heat moves of buff the range of his power stance. I'm saying this as a Jin main btw. Also make his zen cancel the same as tekken 7.
@@Flintc08bruh Jin isn’t the best character so shut up
Man, this tierlist was super helpulf, i loved the way you explained the little things of every character, thaks a lot mate
Marshal Law. I can't believe I didn't get that until now.
Yooo, your comment made me think about it and it just made me get it too lol
Lmao
Pls enlighten me 😮
@@N8Verzehr93 like martial law
@@thedootslayer1224 oh come on, I'm stupid xD
Ty :)
I feel like Devil Jin’s gonna be bad until we reach the point where we start getting more attacks. He’s a poke heavy character with shit poking & easy to counter gimmicks. This character was doomed from the door.
Devil Jin still had access to 1,1 confirm into 1,1,2. It's his saving grace when you don't know what to do in neutral. But he does need a better mid. The only decent plus frame mid is uf3, and that's simply too slow, linear and risky. You could argue his archetype of character doesn't deserve good mids due to his hellsweep, so perhaps a buff to df1 would be better. Until then, we gonna skeet again with while rising 2 🗿🔥
@@DreadPykewr3 is good +6 with pushback but tracks to one side. I need a wallsplatting option from mcr, I think it would be helpful at the wall
Yeah when I watch high level DVJ players like Qudans, Momo, and Ryujin, all I see is them just rotating between like 4-5 moves lol
@danhonorem that's because 90+% of his kit is negative
Man I have been playing against devil Jin in ranked I am an Alisa player. They are beating the shit out of me.
I would honestly watch a 10 hour video of you going in depth to every character, their strengths, weaknesses, how to counter their key moves, etc.
Imo the saddest thing with lidia is that she is forced on stance on half her moves, and can be interrupted by jabs if she does not power crush
finally someone that remembers tier lists are made for the highest skill level, not the average player online. Lars is definitely in lower half of the tier list bcs he has no chance in tournaments but i will continue shitting on lars players below tekken king.
I really like this video, it helps me understand the cast way more. It’s crazy how much knowledge you have on every character & can explain what precisely is good about everyone instead of just calling them op and saying bombastic things
The counter play to devil Jin’s kamehameha is power crush
Pretty much
It’s pretty rare to catch him doing it in neutral, more often than not he relies on it to condition your wake up game where you cannot do such moves.
What the he'll is devil jins kamehameha
@@BopshotBully the charge up guard break which is usually released partially charged
@XAlpt ah yes of course. How did i not see it. I'm DJ is one of my mains
I don't get why ppl put Eddy to bottoms, since even pro can't react to his 50/50, and he is way more succesfull in tournament then half of the cast. Yes, it's more about the player behind the character, but the objective data must be in 1st place.
He has other problems like a consistent usuable WS 15 along with him being very high risk as opposed to others that have high reward but jot as high risk. Plus u have to assume most are privy to his gimmicks once u get beyong intermediate play
He is super liniar, he has no good fast pokes, his stance mixup has bad risk reward factor plus in most cases you can just backdash out of clean hit range of his hellsweep from negativa. His handstance has no mixup without charges and in most cases you dont have tiem to get and use em, and all moves that give you charges are unsafe outside combo.
Not gonna lie as a long time yoshi player I’m both sad and happy he’s so strong in this game cus like I wanna play my boy but like I also see him so often now it’s just not as fun
Dude these safe power crush heat engagers don't have place in this game. Especially when some characters don't have access to them
Facts DVJ eats 💩 for his power crush while some characters can abuse theirs stay safe and enter heat through it all characters power crush should be block punishable it's literally a armor move meant to tank a hit.
You can duck and launch them . or df1 and duck them in reaction due to time slowing down. They are worse than mid ones who become safe on trade
Get good just duck
@@SDTVergil Yes
@@SDTVergil Get good just go and win EVO you scrub.
ayyy glad to see u finally warming up to my melanated brother RAVEN
1 week ago I was getting back into Tekken. Looking up tier list vids. You came clutch TMMS rn 🙏
2 and half hours??? O hell nah yo ass tweakin mainman 😱
Quick PSA d343 on Nina is *NOT* a good move to use on block like the way mmswe is suggesting here. If your opponent is cracked they'll duck the second hit, but even if they aren't, they can reverse the third hit. you're *not* jailed after the second hit the way mmswe is suggesting.
plus -7 is rps territory. getting in the habit of using things like this as a panic button is really bad because you put yourself in a mixup whenever it gets blocked and that's if you don't eat the duck or reversal. overall not s great move to rely on.
You can also just dickjab it if you're not confident with the duck launch. In any case itl make any worth their salt nina think twice about using it. people shouldn't let her get away with this.
Im pretty shit at tekken, and im a shaheen main, He isnt as flashy as some characters but he is really damn good so he definitely S tier. Especially if I as a D tier player can learn combos that take to the wall and smaller combos that do heaps of damage.
Making a character S Tier is not only dependant on wall carry and combo damage lmao. There are just a few other aspects in this game lil bro
Cute comment
someone still play shaheen????! no way!!
@user-hf2zi8bk6r Someone missed the point entirely. I'm not saying those are the reasons he is good. I'm saying the fact I can learn to do these things without too much difficulty as a casual player that only gets to play 1-2 times a week makes him good in *my opinion* homeboy gotta learn to read for real.
As a Devil Jin main I tried shaheen online and I don’t think he’s boring at all. He has an answer for nearly every situation and can be played different ways with the fact that he’s ment to be a heavily based fundamental character. His reach game is as solid as his mix up. After playing him for some time, I’ve gotten a little better with DJ because the character forced me to try new things and taught me to have more patience when playing defensively. He deserves more credit.
I'm a ranked scrub and I hate Bryan. I feel like I'm playing Hearthstone against Bryan, just taking turns. 70% of his stuff either launches or counter hit launches with safe on block moves, half of it is very inconsistent to sidestep, and when you get launched he hits like a truck - over 100 damage without wasting heat into 50/50 OKI that if you lose you are almost at a rage art level, all of that for a bad read in the neutral/start of the round.
I’m playing hearthstone against bryan ✍️🔥🔥🔥
Lab because these are personal struggles.
@@Darkness2Maxrocko what's there to lab? I'm honestly asking. Cause there's like two moves you can duck, I'll give you that. But at the same time he's got mixup on these with mids to screw you over. Most of his moves are either neutral on frames or push you too far for you to punish him. No reason to sidestep him too either, most of his shit tracks for some reason and it can also counter hit launch you for trying to sidestep it lol.
@@MerrStudioThere’s no reason to duck Bryan, you can see his snake edge and no other low does anything to you besides hatchet knocking you down on counter. You can punish Bryan on every launcher he has except jet upper, every low he has is also punishable. Bryan is extremely linear and very weak to quick pokes and attacks from crouching. Oddly enough, you kill Bryan by showing him no respect and challenging him, but do so with fast moves/pokes. Remember that your character, no matter who they are is much faster than Bryan. Bryan is a character that capitalizes on the opponent’s flaws, beating Bryan regularly as you rank up is a great sign that you have tight gameplay.
@@MerrStudio most of his moves are actually minus, but he threatens extensions on almost all of them which CH. If you block his extensions though, it's your turn, as well as if you block his normal moves it's also your turn if he doesn't extend, so play defensively, poke him down and don't mash and he cannot do shit
Honestly agree. Solid list. Also as a Paul main very spot on..
Mainman coming around to not hate Feng anymore is something I never thought I’d see. Really great character but people think he’s braindead, he’s not
Yeah he is fine to play against now. People no longer complain.... until you pick a character that lacks a 15f ws launcher and you question ur life choices 🥲
😝Same here never though I will see the day that TMM doesn't hate Feng that much
Yeah he isn't. He's annoying but he's pretty risky to play. His shoulder being -19 is actually hilarious.
@@Just_a_niceguy yea i love playing zafina but my goodness... not having a 15F launch punish or any sort of throw that triggers any stage mechanics/oki situations hurts sometimes.
For tourneys it makes sense that guys like Shadow have other characters they switch to depending on the matchup for these reasons mainly. In ranked there is no switching, though... Just gotta stare at some dude throwing unsafe moves out like crazy knowing at worst he takes like 50 damage intead of a full combo into oki as most of the roster gets.
I get it though. Zaf's offensive mix/pressure, and evasion are S tier... she can't have everything but as a player I want everything haha
@@mikaele3137 yeah he’s very commital with what he does. He can be annoying sometimes though for sure lol
_"This is the most balanced Tekken ever..."_
*One Minute Later*
_"Draganov is winning all the events..."_
Never change, pal.
I actually kind of like the fact that hei’s main weakness is his vulnerabilities to lateral maneuvers. As you mentioned the df1 is a consistent tool that can be converted into a charged 2, but is interruptible. Sure, it’s a big second hit with good minus frames and healing, but it’s hard to throw it out all the time. That has me considering how I approach my opponent even when it comes to just poking, which was something I never felt was conveyed well to me when I picked up Reina. I feel like I’ve learned the game more and suffered less for it since switching over. Also warrior instinct makes me feel so good and looks so much cooler than any other character specific condition.
Depending on how loosely or closely you agree I’d do this quite accurately presented atm
It seems that he's done downplaying Kazuya since he switched mains to Heihachi. I know that the old man isn't that good but the downplaying is really evident. He didn't even mention Heihachi's top tier punishment and his b1+2 in the video. He's definitely a lot riskier to play than most characters with his commital poking and cinematic whiff animations but he also punishes risky opponents hard, both with his insane block punishment, and his ludicrous electric damage for whiff punishing.
Also It's funny how he mentioned that other characters can be as strong as him in warrior instinct with only their heat. But the thing is, he gets his powered-up state for the entire round and isn't bound to a heat timer. Plus, he still has his own heat that could make him even crazier during its duration.
Womp womp
Putting Law above Heihachi is a crime. Law has the 3rd worst winrate in high ranks
@@bekabex8643 I don't really know why Law's winrate is bad but he definitely looks insane on paper. I'd say that Heihachi is more in-line with someone like Lili. They both reward strong fundamental players with really good moves but they still feel fair to play against.
@@bekabex8643its because law players are mostly unsafe spamming scrubs, law is still top tier
@@bekabex8643that’s not because law is bad though…
Been hoping for this one for a minute. Thanks for the great hard work.
39:12 : "double penetration bolegenese style", MM you got me gigglin with that one
im too new to know about tiers but i do I like watching these videos for a great overview of strengths and weaknesses of every character in one video.
Trying to make it to C tier with Lars 🗣🗣🗣🗣
I still remember going to arcades and playing tekken, seeing King, this pro wrestler with a jaguar mask was such a funny and interesting concept. Happy to see he's still one of the best characters to play in the game. Nina, Yoshi and Law still up there as well.
Not that it matters much, but yoshis Flash is 8f if you want to launch with it outside of heat, not 6f.
Hes still very overpowered, but just wanted to clear that out.
Thanks for all your content over the years!! This video is great & I love the examples given! Keep it up 🔥
I’m sorry but Lili should be higher
Absolutely loved the breakdown and learned a lot (as usual). Thanks!
all the s tier characters are more counter hit paragon than steve
I wouldn’t say Alisa is a counter hit paragon and maybe not Nina but I’m not too sure on nina
yes, way more.
Steve lost almost all his ch abilities in this game
Steve basically just has B1. And it is still arguably the best on the game... but yea it is false to call him the counter hit king when T8 King exists and others.
I like new Steve but miss old Steve too. Other youtubers claiming he has no identity, I highly disagree with but it is very different now. He is a safe evasive stance character now.
Having no single hit mid ch launchers besides flk 2 really hurts man, evasive characters just shit on Steve. Fighting against a good Asuka, Jun or Zafina is just pure torture with Steve, while these characters are usually super easy to deal with on my side character Lee. B1 damage also could be better, for example Paul gets 74-80 damage with his df2 which is also 13 frames and a regular hit launcher that evades highs. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the same damage off of B1, a riskier move since it has to be crouch canceled and doesn't evade.
Most accurate tier list so far. TY TMM.
Lili can't loop Feisty Rabbit oki anymore. Dew3 flips them too far away. Very strong but not a vortex like before. Otherwise fair assessment of the character.
he did say at the wall, and you still can at the wall. However it's not a guaranteed looping of feisty rabbit anymore that grants another uninterruptible FR mix like it was before the nerfs.
Insane reach, best movement and perma schmix. OP
Bryan’s combos are so enjoyable to watch. Not so much to receive mind u.
No kidding about Zafina's db 1+2 low (snake edge) always hitting. No one blocks it. I'm only at tekken king but no one blocks this thing intentionally it seems. It is absolutely reactable on paper but still no one does. Like Mainman said, just no one recognizes it. I think it has a lot to do with her other CH move of just 1+2, where she kinda awkward just swings both her arms at you. The start up to her low attack looks almost just like that at the beginning of the animation so I think many see it and by the time they realize it isn't the mid coming out their feet are hit.
Another reason why they don't think highly of her is because Zafina is kind of rare and not used much....
Zafina is pretty strong but she also has the advantage of being a rare matchup for most people. She's kind of like AKI where her movement and animations are unique but really weird, a lot of people find it offputting but it's great for those that enjoy more odd characters.
Likewise Shaheen has the opposite problem where he's still good but a lot of people find him too plain and not really standing out in a series with a lot of definable characters.
@@Lemonpeppergoblin you mean Aki is like her. Zafina came first with the weird snake movements.
@@brentthompson1607 I meant more for an easy and contemporary comparison, they are both comparible in their aesthetics. I'm not referring to who came first as it isn't something I'm arguing. By that line of thinking then I could say Zafina is like Voldo. I'm refering to an archetype of wierdo movement characters, I didn't say Zafina came before AKi, just that they are alike in some aspects.
@Lemonpeppergoblin well my friends that are all tekken kings at the lowest and TGS on average have 100s of games against my zafina and they STILL don't block it bc "it looks just like her mid". So I'm just trying to make the point that even with matchup experience the two moves look so similar that reacting to it is very difficult, which is why even the pros that absolutely are labbing the matchup bc of guys like ShadowOz still struggle with that move in particular.
Her 1+2 and db 1+2 only start to visually look different after like the 12th frame of a 26 frame move. Theoretically meaning you are trying to react to a 14 frame low. Idk if I'm explaining it well enough to illustrate that.
Love your 3hr tierlist TMM.
35:59 I've BEEN saying Claudio is S tier. THANK YOU! 🤣
Learned a bunch, thanks for the extended explanations .
Imagine the next dlc character being gigas
Buff gigas pls
As a new player to Tekken…not having legacy knowledge on how the game works this is so frustrating.
Thanks for these videos hopefully I can get better at this game.
MASKU
awesome video MainMan!
Hurts to see my boy Lars so low
we need a annoying character tier list than maybe lars would be s tier
@apixza129 You right lol
Considering how bad he was for all of T7, it's like he's back home in the bottom tier lol
Now if only his old friend Gigas was still here to keep him company... 😔
lars is trash the king knee say completlty trash
@@apixza129XD
Great tier list and explanation, was very educational as well. Thanks for the breakdown.
Damn T8 damage is insane, especially that Jin part lols
Amazing video
Reina above Heihachi. Thanks for saving me the time of watching this.
reina downplayer
@Teo-uw7mh Where did I downplay Reina. I just said she wasn't stronger than Heihachi. He literally has stronger variations of her kit
It's his opinion, you didn't have to click on the video if you didn't want HIS opinion 🤦
@@runayswarts970 I clicked to see his opinion, realized it was terrible, and saved myself the time.
Whats the problem here?
@kaspersmilez Every legacy heihachi mains say reina is way better
What I like about TMM is when he is giving these tierlist rundown he don't give shit to the characters he despises (Ling, Asuka, Alisa, etc.) and actually gave them genuine detailed explanation on why they are on that tier😂
Can someone please explain to me why people are getting such a hard on saying Kazuya is a hard character? I simply do not understand this notion from a gamer perspective. I am relatively new to Tekken, never played 7, 6 or other fighting games. Ranked up to Rajin and everytime I see Kazuyas they play the absolute same, I dont even see a difference between a beginner Kazuya and a Rajin. They spam counter hit stuff and as soon as you get hit once, they run up to you while you are on the ground and they get 50/50s (I would even say it's more like 75/25s at this point)
I just lost to someone who knocked me down once and I couldnt get up anymore. Guessed wrong 3 times and round is over. ANYONE can do that, where is the skill involved?
It's such a weird game, that guy could have beaten the best player in the world if he got his lucky counter hit in once. Which other MMR ranked PvP game is build up like that? Could I beat the best Fifa player in the world? The best counter strike team? Best moba team? Best Rainbow6 Team? Best Rocket League player? Ofc not... But I could beat (not consistently ofc) the best Tekken player in the world. Is this the appeal of the game???
"I'm in a mid rank in Tekken." and "I could beat the best tekken player in the world"
Genuinely just shut up
@@Mhashim118 Havent you seen MME almost lose against a special style Jin? You should go check it out before you spill nonsense on the internet,
@@hubachecka Yes because MME was 100% giving it his all against the green ranks special style jin. Keep talking, you sound really smart right now
@@Mhashim118 Thanks, and you sound really dumb right now. He lost 4 rounds against someone who literally just picked up the game.
Want to see that in a game like Rocket League, grandmaster level vs someone who just installed the game, doesnt matter if "giving it his all" or not
the disrespect to lidia saying she’s a tekken 2 bulky character 😭
Kuma is s because of butt attack heihachi is also s character
Steves heat smash puts him into lionheart stance, so if the opponent blocks it you can sometimes punish a button press pretty hard
Surprisingly decent list apart from the massive bias for 3 characters. Overrating "final boss" Jun and Ling whilst criminally underrating "honest" Heihachi. Not bad
He has hated Xiaoyu for years. Anything TMM says about Ling Xiaoyu should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Dude is not honest about her.
@@AbdullahMikalRodriguez
I know. He absolutely hates Xiaoyu and Jun, loves Heihachi but apart from those very biased placements the list is very good
Yeh I mean he did say the tier placements don’t matter too much but imo xiayou if she was s tier would be at the very bottom of it but I’d place her mid A tier
29:35 Not disagreeing with the placement, but wasn’t this throw made to come out at 14f to avoid this, or am I misremembering? Don’t play Law since the dss change so I’m might not be the most up to date
About Law and Xiaoyu.
1) Law got crazy buffs but he needs them to compencate his big nerfs in t8. In t7 his ff43 and 3+4 4 were the greatest whiff punishers in the game. Now 3+4 4 is just decent while ff43 was deleted at all. And in t7 he has backturned mixup that has both mid and high launchers (now it's gone). Without his new tools he would be weak (especially in ultra attacking game, while in t7 he was more defensive character).
The new DSS is not as good as many think it is. It is easier to enter but it also has some weird timing when you can press (in t7 it wasn't). So now you can jab interrupt him in most of his transitions if he doesn't do perfect dss timing (even pros can't do it 10 of 10) - in t7 if you can do dss, noone can interrupt any kick transition even on block.
2) Xiaoyu's Hypnotist mixup is safe for a reason. You can't just mix your opponent in neutral like classic mixup-character: you need to go into heat, then do a linear string into Hypnotist, then wait a bit (even if you do your attacks immediately, every character can interrupt you on block), and only then you can mix your opponent with the deadliest 50/50. And even then if your opponent guess right, he can lauch you (the mid is stepable in both sides while you can hopkick the low).
That's why her mix is so safe on block - the risk is smeared. You can punish her a lot even before she can even get a chance to mix you - if the mixup was still launch-punishable on block, it will be garbage mix.
And still you can utilize this mixup once per round (at best twice). Outside of heat she is not as scary.
i can tell you know how to use Law. As a Law main i can confirm this. my entire playstyle in 7 is now impossible to do in 8 because they got removed or severely nerfed where they cant even CH launch. Main man also forgot to mention, the heat options he gets are easily side steppable where if you get sidestepped you are practicaly dead. his dss is interruptable and i still dont get the timing for perfect dss transitions in T8 (in offline, its a million times easier).
Nah law mains seriously your major risk you’re taking with dss loops is a JAB interrupt and that’s IF YOU fuck up your DSS cancels, and at worst you eat a jab between those loops, imo they did buff with other stuff like his goddamn nunchucks and having a 10frame ch launcher in heat, his poking remains good I agree he did get some big nerfs but at least make it so easy mode dss gives less frames and if you do the old hard version you get the right plus frames
@@pranavjain8774 most of the characters have dangerous couterhit strings in 10 frames (or their jabs have a huge damage).
And to fuck up DSS is kinda easy - the new trasition didn't allow to do dss staple. In previous game if you can do dss, it won't let you down - now it did (in almost every match).
Nunchucks is-13 on block. And if you are far away they arelinear in both sides.
@@bekabex8643 SS 3 is the biggest problem - I've never successfully do ch SS 3 into dss f1 online.
@ I’m talking about in heat and if you space it properly hard to punish also he’s the only one with a 10f ch LAUNCHER, ws4 ch at the wall is litteraly just killing you
What are you saying jabs have huge damage ? It’s still not close to laws, fucking dss up in combos is way harder than in older games, the reason you got access to all those frames was the difficulty, less difficulty= give less damn frames
His combo damage with dss staples is just fine it was very hard to get consistent even in 7
I started not long ago with Devil jin, I am bad but this makes me want to play more devil jin
Lidia is perfectly fine...i love her
She's the most high-risk high-reward character out of all the stance-mixup-heavy characters. Given the nature of this archetype, characters like her, Lars, Eddy, etc will never be top tier. They're simply unreliable and not suited for steady gameplay. That said, I love her too and I accept her as the character she is supposed to be.
@@danhonorem iam honestly a scrub in tekken but i would say you have to adapt your playstyle with her constantly to rank up.
@@rain89skarlet80 I agree. Adaptation and good counterplay is key to ranking up with her. Requires a lot of thinking.
im not enjoying at her 1st, but after countless hrs of using her, damnn, now im enjoying her. especially when on heat, she’s a goddest.
I really love Reina and Kazuya
I just hate invisible ninjas that fly all over the screen. I don't like to play against them. It doesnt mean I dont win with Them, but I dont take pleasure from playing against them: Victor, Alisa, Raven and Yoshi sometimes
Awesome video - thanks
Bryan needs nerfs either way. I don't care if other characters are stronger than him. Nerf him.
What would you nerf when it comes to Bryan?
Sorry m8, get tek tek tek’d
@@Kazusus0 Numbers, especially at the wall, and nerf that kick that hits grounded.
Bryan lost a lots of CH from T7 already, his startup always too slow and had so much -10 on block than any character, his iconic taunt also got nerf the tracking
Anything you do Against Bryan is just block and duck, if you know how to Duck against him then he f up
@@Kazusus0 I would nerf his qcb1. It's startup is 13-14 frames, it counterhit launches and is +5 on block. So many players just abuse this move to lock down their opponent. It's absolutely ridiculous, and he doesn't need it (saying this as a Bryan player). Make the move +1 or +2 on block and I think Bryan is in a much better place. And make it recover slower on whiff.
and nina wiliams also have a really op hitbox during her combos, almost like all women characters in this game
They better either nerf King's throws damange or make that they leave a portion of grey health
Every character has grabs. King has a hard time getting his turn back against fast 50/50 string machines like Zafina, Xiayou, and Eddie. He has nothing besides throws. Many other characters to complain about.
@@dade97asd96 he has to be slower imo
@@tristanherb49exactly him being able to speed blitzed devil jin is a joke, this 325lb bruiser is faster than a whole demon with wings seriously 🤣 he's actually super fast to say the least and can press with the best of them.
@@NineTails87 "He has nothing besides throws" you gotta be joking. He has great poking, one of the best non heat engager pc in the game, one of the best heat smashes that hits grounded too, great lows and an evasive spin. It's a really solid and rounded character and you can easily demolish people without using throws. Add to that the absurd damage he can do mixing up with throws and you have a literal demon.
@dade97asd96 Great lows? You realize I'm talking about King, not Zafina or Xiayou, right? Ffn2 is all he has for lows. His heat smash is slow in a game where people can just throw it out after activation. His counter hit df2 combo is impossible to do on female characters as well and hard to hit confirm in general. You have a point, there are good things about him but he struggles in high level play. I'm Tekken King rank btw.
Raven is my main, with Hwoarang being secondary. Raven is fair and really cool, but he can afford to be a little broken after what Master Raven had to go through to be decent.
Nah hei is s tier you just play him
S+++++megaultragiga PLUSS MOST BROKEN CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME you mean?
@shatter5922 he's especially good at the average level of play because he is so easy to do high damage deadly mixups from full screen and such, just annoying imo
Good overview TMM!
finally someone with a fair take on shaheen, he’s solid but people keep throwing him in like broken s tier character territory. To me shaheen is the “ryu” of the game. all rounder. his main downside is that he doesn’t have a lot of moves. not a lot of stuff you can throw out and expect people to fall for if they know the match up. I think he’s super cool, he’s my main. I also feel he’s a good bar for balancing. I want all characters to feel strong but need to rely on their character and player expression through that character Ie you are playing that character for reasons other than a tier list.
He doesn’t have a high pick rate but he’s my main, and you can tell who has a more advanced shaheen by combo routes, he has some very interesting routes and his while standing 3 loops are not easy if you are going for 2 to 3 reps.
In fact his combo damage is fairly low for what tekken 8 is as some characters can get over 80 to 90 with very easy routes.
You will be lucky to break over 70 without heat, rage or stage gimmicks with Shaheen. Only way to really do so is master stance cancels and ws3 loops.
he’s strong but not broken and i feel your placing is accurate.
He is very steppable and his aerial moves you have to space well and his heat smash as they typically will get gobbled up by other moves or you will be counter hit
he is steppable as well. He feels like a shorter range kazuya in a way. anyways….
You lost me at “…he’s my main” You will always have a biased take. He works well within Tekken 8. Just stop with the downplaying bro
He's an absolute top tier and will be nerfed.
Another T8 scrub with the dellusion they are winning with "skill" and not a broken character
huh? LOL
He isnt that steppable his df1 tracks to both sides lol
Been enjoying Paul a lot despite some rough matchups Personally struggle against Nina, Alisa and Wifi Law players. Haven't had as many Mishima's last I played but probably due to current rank.
Still hoping for my old T7 mains to come back with Josie and Miguel. Trying to settle on another main right now, Heihachi was my fav of the og Mishimas so maybe him or Reina. Jack-8 and King are fun to mess around with (mostly due to watching Brawlpro and Coney).
the Jun segment sounds like it was written by someone who knows shes a bottom 5 character but just lost a set to her 5 mintues ago and is struggling to rationalize it
that's all of mainman's balance takes. see king top 4
@@ministry3471King main detected.
@@DBTHEPLUG i play jin.
@@ministry3471😂😂😂 they’re never right when they assume your main
jun downplayer
Something about zafina that nobody ever mentions, but is crucial. That you can block from her mantis stance. I don't know how many rounds I have won by just baiting an unsafe attack. It has great neutral movement and mix aswell. Just transition into mantis play neutral and watch them kill themselves.. Muwahahaha! You did mention the counter but I think it might be the best counter in the game even with taking damage.
As a King player, they need to remove the armor on his Toll Kick (b3). It’s a reasonably quick, high, power crush that’s only -10 on-block and deals 47 damage with the follow-up.
Whenever I throw that move out, I feel like I’m cheating.
Edit: As for Xiaoyu, the only thing I think I’d change is her RDS heat smash; you shouldn’t be forced into a HYP mixup if you get hit by the heat smash. Aside from that, HYP 1 and her heat strings (f2,1,2 & ff1,2) are easily steppable and she dies if those moves whiff.
I can agree, it used to be just a whiff punisher in T7 but removing it would remove a big part of King's defensive options and his identity with power crushes. If they remove the power crush, they need to buff the oki back, but also have more compensation like making it -9 or buffing the damage. Honestly, I think they should just nerf the muscle armor, something like making his follow up heat dash not a full launch.
I agreed to, i main Bryan and Alisa, i have a great reflex to do sweet SS but it always won't work against the tracking of b3 though i can see that hitbox looking completely far from hurt box and still hit
Azucena, Victor, Asuka with a -8 power crush.
You're not a King player
@ Exactly, f2,1 would be his heat engager whiff-punish, and b3 would be his damaging whiff-punish. It was safe in T7, so yes, I’d agree that removing the armor and making it -8/9 would be perfect.
Great vid 👏🏻😊
I still love Lidia, she replaced Jin as my main and first character I got to Raijin
lol casino character
@@JBlxckkand who’s not? Honest Kazuya?
i love lidiaaa too ❤️ the heat queen.
@@JBlxckklol don't tell me you can read or react to several-frame moves on command. Lidia literally has one safe move in each of her stances (casino character af), while other characters always have a whole movelist to choose from. Besides, you can always jab her out of her stances with ease.
Heihachi beeing A Tier is criminal completly broken.
Heihachi is S
No, he's not.
yes
@@marcusjones9084 ask main man what rank is his Steve and Heihachi
I kind of like how Heihachi is kind of "old school" with his fighting style. Like he doesnt need all this tracking.
Heihachi probably just behind top ten i think
Bro tell me pls what rank ur Steve and how long and what rank is Heihachi?
I just hope the Devs don't take his opinion seriously this time because there are a lot of things I find problematic..
Dw bro they will; never forget the t7 devil jin atrocity
have they ever taken his opinion seriously?
@@mikaele3137 oh they have... Since he is the loudest voice in the community
59:19 One thing I never see mentioned is that Kaz's heatsmash does a lot more damage if the low wiffs and the mid hits first instead.
Kazuya and bryan both deserve S+
There’s just no reason to duck lee.
A lot of characters have a guaranteed low high string on hit. Hwoarang, Claudio, Leroy, and even Lars just to name a few. Tbh honest I thought this buff was gonna come in T7. People acted like it was hellsweep 😂
Immagine downplaying heihachi to avoid nerfs 😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
Most definitely is A+ tier at the very least 🤣
@ he put kazuya s tier so heihachi should be above him at least
delulu
HEIHACHI IS IS S+ TIER FOR SURE
@@brandonspringfield2861found the hard stuck Garyu
What you said about raven is true but he is still strong when it comes to spacing and whiff punish but he feels like the most balanced, if you lose against raven its either reason is knowledge check or poor low awareness or just fair lose. And his gameplay feels more effort than most characters since majority are like A tiers or S tiers right now
Does anyone even like the concept of jailing? It always seem silly to me that I'm forced to stand block after reading the high correctly, but the game is saying "lol no how dear you try to duck in a 3d fighting game."
I can agree with the concept of jailing on hit with non natural strings, but I agree, on block I feel you should always be able to duck. Glad I watched this video though bc while I don't run into Nina's for example very often... It is a matter of time before I attempt to duck her df1, 2 and get pissed that it didn't work. At least now I will hopefully remember "yea it would of never worked so I won't try"
I find it annoying that some Jail moves can be seen as steppable, duckable, interruptable
Lol, Kuma's heat smash start has the same anumation as Claudio's DP, that is why he is so evasive and hits grounded
The Heihachi being mid tier propaganda is crazy
I love Leo's bok but doing it in a pro's face will probably get you launched, even if it's mid string. Out of the moves you mentioned, I like uf2 1, qcf2, & df3 as the risk is low. I still use the other moves, but they've gotten me fucked up before. All lows are either steppable or i20+, & all are a minimum -11 on block. All of the risks are sometimes very rewarding tho! Wish they had better tracking & range, or slightly better frames.
At this point I believe Jin has done something to this man IRL because he really hates that character lmao
Nobody likes Jin in this game besides Jin mains, dude has training wheels attached to his hips.
compare t7 jin with t8 jin
then come back again