Public school teacher here, 1st grade. This experience has definitely shown me that I do NOT want to send my children to public school. Agree 1000% with Voddie Baucham that the curriculum we often teach is not “neutral”, but truly anti-Christian, as I am having to DAILY sift out truth from error so my students will know the Truth. Let alone the anti-Christian ethics being covertly taught that are NOT curriculum based. Education in America is both explicitly taught and implicitly taught, and kids don’t always have the ability to recall the implicit teachings that take root in their heart. Kids are being discipled morally, emotionally, spiritually, as well as academically in these places, which is a LOT to deconstruct after the fact. They need a strong foundation before they are tasked to enter into and reach an anti-Christian world. Won’t be teaching in public-ed for much longer 😞 hope this helps someone.
@@rayd9639 Hello, thank you for the reply. In regards to your initial question, "What parts of the curriculum is anti-Christian?", I can provide two tangible examples (though there are more) of the curriculum we use to help with this question. In first grade, we teach units on the origin of the universe and the Earth and species. The curriculum does endorse the idea of the 'Big Bang' theory, Darwinian evolutionary theory (which is now being redacted by modern scientists and previous supporters of the theory). I do not need to go into detail as to why this teaching is problematic for Christian parents of 6 and 7-year-olds who send their child to receive public education. Secondly, the curriculum we use teaches an overview of world religions. In our lesson on Christianity, I have found that unfortunately, students are being taught and shown an inaccurate representation of the Jesus of the Bible. A quote from our read-aloud depicts Jesus as "a prophet who lived long ago", and that Christians merely try to live our lives by the Ten Commandments (only partly true, but falls short of the whole truth). I have found that I need to bring clarity to my students about who Jesus really was and is in order for their misconceptions to be properly addressed. A great deal of my students are either Catholic or have never been to church, so it is important that I present the RIGHT Jesus to them above what the curriculum says. As for the other things that you have stated, I do not think I understand what you are trying to communicate. These are not principles being taught, but explicit teachings that are perpendicular to the Bible. I hope that these examples will shed light to the truth that anti-Christian teachings that are indeed being taught in public schools.
@@acrawford26 Christians are real fragile if they think their kids are endangered learning about basic beliefs of other religions. “Jesus was a prophet from long ago” is a perfectly valid belief for anyone who wants to live in the US and go to public schools. This neutrality you speak of doesn’t take away from you and your kid’s ability to practice Christianity, it prevents Christians from having power over everyone in this country. One’s faith is not strong if simple facts like: Jews believing Jesus was just a prophet, is threatening.
I find it unbalanced that this debate is by two parents who are virtually empty nesters with college graduates..The state of public education has drastically changed in the last 5 years which also varies from state to state and that wasn't really addressed.
Not only that but the fact that there is no diversity here. When trying to include different experiences, you must include diversity in the people you interview.
@nykka3 Possibly because there were no parents who currently have school aged children at home that are in public school, private school and who are homeschooled?
Her point about how our decisions not to put our children in public school creates a vacuum. I would just like to say I am not responsible for other children but I do have a duty to raise mine! I can't make my decision based on others but the conviction God gives me!
agree, I'm not going to throw my children to the wolves because somebody else is worried about a vacuum. I can't fix the school system but I can love, nurture and protect my children.
Homeschool is the safest place for your kid. Period. This woman says that if she had homeschooled, there would have been a homicide. I know she is joking, but that is exactly why it would have been good for her to homeschool. With all her Bible teaching, etc she never learned how to deal with the frustrations and pressures of being around her kids 24/7 and teaching them? That says a lot to me. When you homeschool your kids, you have to depend on God every minute for His grace to do the job. And that is one of the best reasons to homeschool--it changes us, not just our children.
Far be it from me to side with Jen Wilkin, but she does have a point. Not every home is safe for homeschooling. For instance, there is a high rate of sexual abuse in homeschooling families, especially when there are a lot of kids and adolescents in the home. Of course, nobody likes to talk about this, because we uphold families with a lot of children that homeschool as the gold star standard for Christian life, and if anyone ever points out the flaws, they're automatically branded as homeschooling haters or against large families (neither are true.) But there are serious and often complicated problems with this idea that every family should be homeschooling, regardless the family situation. I'm not a proponent of public school at all, but I think all churches who are serious about keeping children out of public schools should get serious about financially aiding families so that they can afford Christian school (or better yet - start their own Christian school.)
@@rdnugent1 I'd like to see your supporting evidence of this. I suspect it is a very small percentage. Christian schools can abuse too. But it is not the norm.
@@phyllissmith2538 As far as evidence goes, I have only anecdotal. Our former church did an entire conference on sexual abuse in the church, and it is much more rampant than people would like to acknowledge. While abuse CAN happen anywhere (including Christian schools), the particular that makes abuse in the home is that it is insular. It's easier to keep secrets and cover up things in an individual home with one "head" than it is in a large building with hundreds of kids and a swath of adults with some semblance of accountability. If a family's ideology is that the husband/father is the head, that appearances of being a "good, Christian family" is paramount, and that there is even a tight firewall between the family and any thing on the outside, it's a petri dish for secrecy, no accountability, and sometimes, abuse. Our pastor and his wife have seen countless examples of this, as they have been called upon by other churches across the country to come and help whenever a church discovers there is sexual abuse in a family within their congregation. I could go on much longer, giving other reasons, but I'll stop at this point.
You do realize the United States is still a very Christian nation right? Sending your kids to public school still means kids are around a lot of Christians. It’s just that they are different kinds of Christians and a few non-ones of course. Should be alright though because Jesus walked among poor and different people right? If anything you have it the exact opposite. Sending kids to private school is sheltering them in the most affluent settings with the wealthy. Their status and beliefs as wealthier people are maintained which is like exactly what the Roman Empire was to the poor people in the Middle East during Jesus’s time.
@@awilson8521 Would a Jew be correct in saying the US is secular because the Torah/Talmud isn’t taught as the truth in public schools? What are your views on the freedom on religion in the first amendment?
As a former public school teacher, I agree. There is so much wasted time in the classroom and so much that goes on that parents are unaware of and unable to parent their children through. I homeschool 9 children 5 of our own and 4 of my deceased friend’s children. This requires many financial sacrifices, but our children are worth it. We are active in our community and serve inside and outside of our church in a variety of ways. I have a dream of starting a school down the road to give other children these opportunities. Allowing the secular (at best) state to decide what’s best for children educationally seems counterintuitive.
I was a public school educator for 14 years in 2 different districts and I recently resigned to be with my young children ( 2 and 4) and I WILL NOT be sending my kids to public school. It is such a discouraging environment. Most parents don’t know what really goes on at school, because If they did they wouldn’t send them to it.
If you want to make a difference start talking to your local church about providing classes in the school the five days it's closed. Somebody has got to start providing other options and it should be the church since we can't seem to get legislation on school choice.
I’ve been a youth pastor in 2 different cultural contexts. I’ve had public school, home school and Christian school families. Students walking with the Lord during their school years and post graduation predominantly come from home school families, some come from Christian school families and almost none come from public school families. I was a staunch public school kid when I got married. I wouldn’t even consider home school. But after a decade of being a student pastor it’s almost not even a conversation that homeschool was the best option for our family in discipling our kids.
I have taught in two different public schools so I am not sure where you are working but some of the best young Christians I have met came from public schools. I have met far less really strong Christians ready to be a part of the kingdom from private Christian schools. As a matter of fact I have seen a lot of racism, pride and bullying in Christian schools.
Interesting... I worked in Columbus and Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty much had the same experience in both places. Parents play the biggest role in the student walking with the Lord post-graduation. But from my experience, parents who sent their kids to public school had the least involvement in their student's education; they seemed more concerned about athletics and extracurricular. I'm not saying there are no outliers. I worked for 2 years at a private Christian school as well, and I would agree with your assessment.
I see the opposite in youth ministry: our homeschool and Christian school kids tend to be more cliquey and exclusionary. Our public school kids are more steadfast and kind. That said, I think a parent/guardian's involvement in their kid's life is the most important factor, especially in the later teenage years. This is in the Bible Belt though (Rural Eastern Kentucky). Most teachers are likely sympathetic to Christianity, if not following Christ themselves.
correlation is not causation. perhaps the family's commitment to faith led to homeschooling in addition to other lifestyle choices: making church a priority, regular family discussions/bible reading/prayer regarding God/faith, living a God honoring lifestyle, etc. I'd be curious to try to filter by those families who live and walk their faith AND attend public school VS similar family cohorts that attend Christian schools, to see faith outcomes .
I graduated over 10 years ago now and I got a decent sampling of public school having attended 9 different elementary, 2 middle schools and 1 HS. Even I vowed to NEVER send my kids to public school and I was an atheist who vowed to abort my babies. I was subtly taught to challenge my parents, that Marxism was good, God was bad, motherhood was abhorrent, etc, etc. Praise God I didn't abort, but was rather saved by our Lord & Savior after becoming a mother. Took some convincing my husband, but after 2020 he got totally on board with the idea of homeschooling. Lol. Now with our 4th on the way, we are still going to homeschool all our our kids, praise God.
Public school teacher here. I listened to the entire video. I’ve worked at 3 districts almost all grade levels. I choose home school every day more than ever…
We homeschool our 3 for several reasons. 1) We know we can educate them better than public school. 2) We don't want them to be raised by their peers. 3) It's our responsibility to disciple them, and we do that as we teach, imparting a Biblical worldview into education. 4) We want the freedom to say, "we control our schedule, not a school district,' so, we go on vacation when places aren't crowded and such. 5) Socialization is much more natural in a homeschool environment. When else in life, besides school, are you surrounded by ONLY people your age? 6) We started out as the typical 8-5 family who only spent a couple of rushed hours a day with our kids. That didn't seem to be good for any of us. So, we changed it.
Point #2 "We don't want them to be raised by their peers" - absolutely an important point. Remembering my teaching years, that was an unexpected observation, the remarkable power and influence of the peer group. I taught first in a Christian school, then in a secular private school. My last years of teaching were in public education. I was surprised that the peer influence in public education was so much stronger and mostly negative. I think home education, done well, is the best option if you can pull it off.
We love homeschooling!! Such freedom and the joy of spending time together as a family, which I never knew we missed until COVID hit and I got my babies back.
Formerly homeschooled here - what you’re saying does sound okay but it assumes that your should be the only power/control/influence in your kid’s lives. I know many formerly-homeschooled kids and let me tell you, the results long-term can be disastrous. It’s not how society is meant to function. Even with loving, well-meaning parents, you just don’t give your kids the tools they need to enter the real world. I dearly love and respect my parents but I don’t know if any formerly homeschooled kids who now would choose to do the same. It has a lot more to do with parental pride than it does what’s best for the kids - otherwise more proem would be asking out opinion instead of jumping in assuming they know what’s best. many of my peers did not turn out to be able to function in the works well, and many had no idea how to have strong faith in the real world. The work force in includes many different types of people. Controlling your own schedule, your kid’s schedules, every single thing they learn, every kid they know - it’s just not healthy and doesn’t lean into trusting God. Remember, even Jesus lived in Egypt for a time. I understand the desire to homeschool but I dislike that people think its better. It’s not better (I understand it could be in some very broken school systems) it’s simply alternative.
This was fantastic. My main follow-up question is whether all their children are still Christian or not? Not that we can perfectly execute a plan to "grow" Christians, but I think that's a factor I'd love to know.
Are the Christian teachers actually being vilified and maligned by their Christian friends OR is the reality of the rot of public school being talked about and the Christian teachers assume that means them too? I support Christian teachers being missionaries in the public school. I think most Christians do too. That doesn’t equate to needing to have our kids discipled for 8 hours a day by people who aren’t always Christians. Some who are actively looking to subvert parents, despite the naivety that Jen seems to have on this issue.
As a Public schooled student I gotta say I hated it there, for many reasons mainly for stifling my curiosity and boring me to death with their approach to teaching. Not to mention the teachers- most of whom were not good examples and the kids even more so. After working in public schools for 5 years, I decided to quit and become a homeschooling mom. It’s a sacrifice and we are not as well off as our peers but I would not have it another way. We love our days learning and exploring and most importantly God and the Bible are in every subject and part of every lesson.
Homeschool mom here (first year!) and I mentor a 5th grader at our local inner city school. I love that Jen mentions supporting our local schools while doing what is best for our family and children. To us, the benefits of homeschool outweigh public school, but that doesn't mean we step out of serving the local school. Additionally, I think Jen lives in Texas, which is a much different public school environment than here in Michigan. Additionally, I think it's important to note that Jen admits she has had a bad experience with private schools. That makes sense that she pushes public school for her own family. Lastly, we werent ALLOWED in the school for two years due to Covid- so being involved has been taken from us.
Did you watch the whole discussion? Jen literally said that we "ought not be doing what's best for our family". But instead, adopt the Marxist tripe of doing what's best for the whole (as if supporting public education accomplished that).
Thank YOU for pouring into students. You guys are the real heroes. Can I ask a question? Does it feel hurtful towards your profession when you hear of a parent homeschooling? I would hate for that to be the case because I truly want wonderful public schools and want to support them.
These comments are scary. As Christians it baffles me how we can slander and malign other Christians. Feel free to disagree with her, but discounting her ministry and even discounting the scripture she used and instead calling her marxist is wild. There are many Christians that dont have the ability to homeschool. These comments could leave those Christians to feel shame and even judged. Lets be more Christian while maintaining your convictions.
I definitely don’t think Jen’s experience is normal. As someone currently in BC Canada who has a school board in our town with 5/8 school board members who are trans/gay etc we are in a loosing battle. The number of poor graphic and sexual books being encouraged to be in our libraries is unreal. The fact Jen has access to what curriculum is being taught is not normal. Our school district has actually band parents from knowing whT is being taught. Again her exerpienece isn’t the normal public school experience. We pulled our kids 2 years ago after 5 years of extreme bullying in public school we opted for a Christian private school and the bullying carried over there. Our kids are not sacrifices. I whole heartedly disagree with Jen’s poi my of view that we shouldn’t be looking at what’s best for our family but the community. Again I’ll repeat, at what cost?!? Should our children’s mental health suffer and the just allow them to be bullied to the point of wanting to commit suicide? Jen’s experience is not normal for public school at all. Interesting her kids were not involved in extra curriculars. I think homeschool students absolutely have constant connect with kids of all socio and economic backgrounds - homeschool groups, extra curriculars, church, neighbors - being in contact with all of the above gives your kids access and experience with kids of all ages and backgrounds.
I thought that those comments about community over family sounded like she has been indoctrinated by the public school system into socialism. As the church, yes, the church should be acting that way within itself. But… the government? I don’t think that’s taught in scripture.
I think you need to ask yourself, is Jen actually this naive or is there a level of subversion here? I know some public teachers who are Christians trying to remain firm and faithful, and they all acknowledge how hard it has become (and becoming). The idea that someone can answer this question "Yes", without very careful qualification is absurd. And almost everything she said was not justified or based on emotion.
I was so frustrated watching this. It’s like they hand-picked somebody who wouldn’t give a real robust defense against Jen Wilkin. I appreciate her. I’ve been to the Village Church. I’ve read her books. She’s a very good apologist for public education. She’s not shy about it, so why can’t they find somebody to debate her who’s not willing to be shy about it on the other side. Throw an arrow in the room of 100 homeschooling mothers who’s homeschool their children K through 12 and they could probably give a better defense. The gentleman was nice enough and nothing against him, but it wasn’t really in my opinion a true debate . She lives in (as she states ) a very good school district. Probably one of the top in Texas. She was able to be super involved and had a family member that is part of the school system. That’s something that 99% of people could not replicate in this country. So the debate seemed kind of one-sided, but also for the wrong reasons. 
Something we as parents must always remember is that children are not a distraction from ministry. They are the greatest ministry that God has given us. Just imagine the impact raising just one Godly child could have on the world. Society and public schools have changed drastically in just the last few years-and not for the better. This is something Jen has been privileged to avoid. Choosing to send kids to public school is gambling. You never 100% know what they are being taught, even if you’re a teacher in the next class over. Personally, I’ve seen the village and I don’t want it raising my kids.
Jen's experience sounds much like mine. The problem comes with the generational slide. Parents assume that school now can't be that much different than their experience. This world and it's beliefs are marching ever onward toward Godlessness unless guarded or, when needed, reformed. Remember that at a time in these United States nearly all major educational institutions were Christian in orthodoxy and orthopraxy. What public education in the US once was, was a blessing from it's founding. Where it still flourishes is a testament to inherited blessing from submission to God and His law. There is a time to abandon it. There is a time where we're throwing our kids in the deep end... often times assuming they'll learn to swim or the water isn't so deep as it actually is. Where I live it tends to be the case often that our kids in the public educational institutions are abandoning their faith. They are catechized into the secular world view faster than we can raise the flag of caution.
I’m young and grew up Christian. I’ve never understood this common point on how the culture is corrupting kids so much. American culture and history is dominated by Puritan Christian values and it still is. We are still a very Christian nation so all the cultural complaints you have can be caused by the ideology you want to defend. And people like you often connect critical race theory to part of this decline, like learning about Afro-American history and culture, but Black people have some of the MOST Christian beliefs out of any demographic. If anything theirs is more genuine. They are more likely to focus on the love and liberation side of Jesus while white Christians in America are rampant with greed, materialism, and pride.
For the many parents signing the praises of homeschooling on here, I understand your hearts from from a place of love. However, few consider voices like mine (formerly homeschooled). I believe that most people, even well-meaning , good parents who homeschool do it more for themselves. It is done out of anxiety and a need for control and total influence over their kids lives. How can we be prepared for the real world if we haven’t even interacted with it daily? How can we enter a workforce full of non-Christians with wisdom and integrity if we haven’t had any practice along with parental guidance? I do not feel it’s necessarily wrong to homeschool but there is no educational hierarchy. There are pros and cons to both. Having been homeschooled (and yes, it was done fairly well) and known dozens and dozens of homeschooled families, I would never homeschool my own kids. Key point: I’ve seen the long-term outcomes, not the short-term ones. I have seen too many family relationships damaged by Homeschooling. I think it is quite prideful to assume that, as parents, we are the best/only teacher for our kids and should be the only influence. Others may have different and better perspectives than we do. Having our beliefs challenged is okay. We should give our kids some credit. Also, as for other homeschooled kids (as adults) some are Christian, some are not. Many are extremely liberal after entering the real world. Homeschooling is no guarantee for having a child grow up to be a disciple of Jesus. In society we are not meant to be just living our own lives in our own homes while sending our kids out to a group a couple times a week/month for some socialization. We are meant to be in community together. I do not mean to malign anyone but I think that homeschool families should think hard about why they are doing it and what they expect the outcome to be of being the only teacher in their child’s lives. And also looking at our own pride (including myself as well - I know I don’t have the answers!) and pray and ask God to show us His heart. As I said, there is no moral heirarchy in education. Let’s none of us assume we are at the top of one.
I was a public school teacher in CA and I quit my job and rearranged my life and priorities completely, in order to stay home with my two children and raise them and train them in the Lord. I wouldn’t trade it for anything! I grew up in the immoral training of the public school system and I was thrown into a cesspool of evils that I wish I had been protected from. You do not need to be a teacher to homeschool, you have been chosen to raise your children, God will give you all you need as you depend on him. I encourage anyone considering homeschooling to ask your Heavenly Father for direction and leading, he will guide your path ❤
I really hate it when I hear Christians joke along the lines of “there might have been a homicide” or “I’m gonna kill ___” but all the more awful to say “if I had had my kids around me all the time and tried to teach them… I might have killed them. 1st of all… no you probably wouldn’t. 2nd of all its not a joke, as anyone actually touched by homicide knows. But it shouldn’t take personal experience for this to be acknowledged.
They talk about people who can't homeschool, single moms etc, and Jen's concern about ALL the kids getting a good education and loving our neighbor through being active in the public schools...but what if we as neighbors and friends of these people opened our homes to homeschooling those kids? Formed neighborhood co-ops, so to speak. We would be actively involved in helping our neighbor and being active members of our community. I think it's a myth that homeschooled kids don't socialize and aren't involved in the community. On another note, in our small town, our church is not homogeneous...our kids interact with plenty of kids from different backgrounds. Because I will say as a former public school teacher that education has been turned into a business...it's all about money. It's not about great teachers or bad teachers, it's about kids in seats so the school gets money.
In my state it’s not legal to homeschool other peoples kids. I am currently opening a private school with extremely low tuition to try to make up for this law.
I wish they would have not just talked about the moral issue in the public school but also the TIME waster issues. Endless performances, dress up days, parties, sooo many things that WASTE teachers time rather than just being able to do what they love…teach. Oh and underpaid. The common parent has NO idea how many ridiculous HOOPs teachers have to jump through. The school system is broken. As much as I love Jen (currently walking through Abide) I wish they would have addressed schedules, and how they rob the children of simple things like PLAY and being outside.
I challenge everyone who thinks this is a “nice” debate: does it actually, honestly reflect the real dilemmas in today’s education, or is it just one side completely validating itself with another side weakly pushing back?
While listening to this woman speak I kept wondering where does she live? What planet is she from because I don't know any public school on earth that pleases me as much as she is pleased. Something must be wrong with her. I agree with you but I felt like there was no "other side". They were all speaking on behalf of public school. I think we just watched a paid advertisement for public schools.
From what I have seen of TGC debates, that is the intent. "Good Faith" doesn't mean use nice voices...it means don't be manipulative and deceitful. Which is exactly what they are doing. They set it up to make Jen Wilkin look like the Victor and promote their liberal, woke, and man centered Christianity. Happy to see from the comments that their plan didn't go so wll
Blessed is the parent who puts his child in the counsel of the wicked, in the way of sinners, and in the seat of scoffers; - Psalm 1:1 Jen Wilkin Version
Wilkins personal experience doesn’t make an argument. Its irrelevant to what the majority of public schools are teaching. Secondly, public school by its nature is anti-Christian since it doesn’t teach from a Christian worldview or use the Bible as an ultimate source of authority. In the words of Van Til, there is no neutrality. Our presuppositions about the world, reason, etc are totally different than the non christian.
I would like to know if Jen Wilkin still is involved in her local school in any way. She stated that it was so important for Christians to do this but seemed to imply that it’s while you are raising your own children. I would think that when your children are grown it’s an ideal time to volunteer, attend school board meetings, tutor children who need extra help, etc.
@The Gospel Coalition Thank you for this conversation. This question/comment is for Jen. Firstly, my wife and I deeply appreciate your work and incredible Bible teaching. We just finished up your Genesis study and the first half of Exodus and are constantly blown away at the depths of study you provide. Thank you for what you do! We live in more of a politically progressive part of the country. Our own school district has very actively implemented a number of pretty radical policies/pedagogical approaches. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are teachers and administrators in the local public school system (both Christians and non-Christians) that have clearly communicated serious concerns about what is happening on-the-ground in our own local schools and that the environment is becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity as a whole. This includes very specific examples such as gender transitions (without parental knowledge) in 1st grade and an in-school drag queen story hour, during school hours, in a 4th grade classroom, to name a few. When I hear fellow Christians describe parental concerns as "fear mongering" it hurts because our experience has been one of wrestling deeply with these very real concerns. We really struggled with the idea of keeping our children in the local public schools as a way to seek the flourishing of our city, but there came a time when we felt as though the social pressures and secular worldview being foisted on our children on a daily basis were deeply unhealthy in their spiritual and educational development, thus we made the financial sacrifice and began sending our three young girls to a private Christian school. Our family does not want to flee, or use the public school as a punching bag by any means, but we also have seen some really gnarly and unnecessary pressures being placed on our young girls by those deemed authority figures in their lives. In a situation like ours, when we have seen first-hand some of the more extreme examples, how does a Christian healthily engage a system that has become quite hostile to a Christian worldview? Would you please consider not using the phrase "fear mongering" in these conversations? While it may be so for some in certain locations and cultural contexts, there are parents being aggressively confronted with these issues on a daily basis, and many of us feel entirely written off by this particular framing. Personally, when I hear this phrase used, it creates a hurdle for me to hear much else about what you are saying, since it demonstrates that you are clearly speaking into a very different context than what we are experiencing. Again, thank you for what you do! Your brother in Christ!
Thank you for your well thought out comment. I hope JW reads it. Public Ed may be sufficient and safe in Bible-belt Texas where JW lives, but in most of the US and Canada (where I live), Public Ed is openly hostile to Christians and the Christian worldview. There is no 'neutrality', and children from Christian homes are in no way able to be 'salt and light' in the current progressive school culture. And secondary to moral and spiritual issues, the educational standards and outcomes are low compared to private schools and UK/EU countries. You cannot trust the progressive Public Ed system to give your children a proper foundation in reading, maths, and sciences, unless you are willing to heavily supplement at home, have a regular tutor, or go to a tutoring center summer program. There is plenty for Christians to fear, so I agree JW should refrain from using "fear mongering" in this discussion. I'm glad there are still a few places where Public Ed is a decent option for Chrtisians, but it is rare. I stand by that. I have teaching experience in secular private, Public Ed, and Christian school. My children went to private and then a Christian school up until high school. No regrets despite the personal costs and financial sacrifices. Dear Christians, I would absolutely try to find a way to educate your children outside of the Public Ed system.
@@candacew-s2936 I think one point is that JW did specifically say "I did not send my kids to public school to be 'salt and light' I sent them to get a world class education". Obviously each school district is different, but the idea of our kids being "missionaries" is not one that JW espouses.
JW's comment on "fear mongering" was not a call to ignore the stances of public school districts. Her direct comments are "I know what OUR school district is and isn't teaching and what I see happening now around this conversation is a great deal of misinformation and fear-mongering. ... Some of the things parents will say ARE being taught I know are NOT being taught and what I think is happening is people read an article about something that happened somewhere else or they hear a story and there's a lot of hearsay that travels around about what is or isn't going on and because we live in a time where fear is something that is leveraged at every turn it takes root and they end up making a fear-based decision instead of an educated decision. ... There are legitimate things to be concerned about with a public school education but whether your district is actually the one that is implementing those things or not is something that you should get first-hand information on not have heard about from someone else" So I believe her comment is definitely accurate and she is encouraging parents to actually have first hand experience of THEIR SPECIFIC district and make a decision accordingly, but not fall into fear of the "public school system" generally. And I think we can all agree that those fears have definitely been stoked in the absence of personal due-diligence
@@jmeyering11 I agree with you. I do not think Jen is making a bad faith argument here and I know that drumming up emotional responses based on fear is a powerful tool that many of us use or fall prey to all the time. That said, I do find a number of very influential Christian leaders who will use the label of "fear mongering" to deny entire issues and claim that other Christians are simply operating out of fear and/or political idolatry. There is this sense from some of "that isn't actually happening" which leaves a number of us in a really weird spot who actually have been doing our own due diligence and have seen some intense stuff. I want to hopefully bring awareness to the fact that this is indeed actually happening in certain places right here and now and Christian parents are having to wrestle with it and make some really big life-altering decisions accordingly. Our family did. I also think there is a trajectory, that even if your district isn't dealing with it now, it won't be long. Christians should be unsurprised and prepared on how they are going to address this when it comes their way. I find that in this conversation, Jen kind of left of at the point of saying "this isn't happening at our school, and the educations is good, so that's how I come to my stance." But what if, as in many places, it is happening and the education is actually quite poor? I would love for her to engage that question a bit more head on, because it is a reality for many.
Yes, I did note her comment about not having her kids there as "missionaries." I should have specified that the 'salt and light' argument is one I have heard many, many times in convos with Christians who fervently argue that Christians should have their children in public ed. They also argue, as JW does here, that public education is a common good, and as Christians, we should support our communities' families by not 'abandoning ship' but by remaining in the school system because it benefits the community through our presence and participation in Home and School, school board, committees, volunteering etc. I understand that viewpoint both as a Christian parent and retired public ed teacher, and agree that there was a time when Christians could and did make a difference by their presence and participation. That time is long over, in my opinion. No doubt there are some 'good schools', in high income and more 'religious' areas, but it is not the norm. Recent books I'd recommend: re the North American public ed academic decline - 'The Knowedge Gap' by Natalie Wexler. Also, on the moral/spiritual consequences of public education and why Christians should get out, check out 'The Benedict Option' - Rod Dreher.
Dictionary Defnition of the word Debate - "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward". Looks like a debate to me.
I'm surprised at the volume of comments lambasting public school. Whether you choose to attend or not, these are YOUR schools. You have a civic duty to see that they are properly stewarded and should seek to improve them. What about the millions of children who do not even have a choice? Do Christians vacate the institution out of fear of the lion's den or do we put on the whole armor of God and go do our duty!! I have experienced homeschooling, private school (Baptist), and public school. They all have pros and cons, but at the end of the day I find it hard to honor the call to "go out and make disciples of all nations" if we shrink back from the public sphere.
11:25 Every parent needs to do what is best for their family. That is called being a parent. Nobody would turn their own into a homeless shelter endangering their children and claim, Oh well, I don't need to do what is best for my family but the community by in large. Worst still, what is best for your family is what is best for the society by in large. It is a false dichotomy.
Thank you!! When she brought this up I wanted to scream. When the scriptures instruct us to care for others it's always within the church. Paul is clear to note this within the scriptures . The public school system and most of the people in it are not part of the church. I'm not sacrificing my children in the name of "community". She's leaning progressive on that.
@@Honey_bee-09 I will never sacrifice my children on the altar of anything. I am convinced many people are sacrificing their children on the altar of convince, worldliness, wordily success, respectability, sports, etc.
@@Honey_bee-09 When the Scriptures instruct us to care for others, is it always within the church? Is Paul the only one who wrote of how we should care for others in the Scriptures? There is no doubt that there are instances when he is specifically addressing how we love and care for one another within our community of faith
Loving one’s neighbor should never be done at the sacrifice of their families needs and best interests. I guess in the best interest of others I should start frequenting the local strip club to be salt and light to the dancers. Lol
Our Children attended a publically funded Charter School that was excellent. They were openly attacked for their faith as early as 2nd grade by peers who were atheist and Jewish. One boy in third grade attended school in a dress. My daughter persuaded him to use attire otherwise and remained his friend for years. She had one if her peers believe that she was neither male or female smd this delusion was re-inforced by openly atheist parents. We are very glad they attend a Classicsl Christian education today. Glad for this multi-natiional, multi-ehnic socially amd economically diverse Christiam educational setting in Princeton, NJ. So glad, no regrets.
For me it’s not just the secular culture of the school, the pedagogy, the method that public education approaches education is counter to how I want my kids to be educated. One cannot look at all the data and believe that a public school education even meets the bare minimum in most cases.
This discussion needs to be founded upon the clear commands that god places upon his people. Eph 6:4b; Deu 6:4-9; Lev 18:3; etc. Also we need to take into consideration the historic emphasis of the church on providing Christian education for our children. I spent many years working in public schools and the woke ideology and secular humanism is pervasive. To add to the problem pastors have failed to teach what the Bible clearly teaches on this subject, which has allowed for confusion on this topic.
I’m a second generation public school teacher who taught 7th grade language arts. I quit because I felt like a social worker and not an educator. (Every teacher complained about it yet was powerless to do anything meaningful.) After becoming a mom and experiencing the infamous lockdown, I saw the social emotional learning (SEL) was actually in every district, not just my former one. Then the Marxist brainwashing that spanned over two generations wore off. Either homeschool or try a Classical Christian school (or both depending on your child) as alternatives. It won’t be easy; however, nothing worth doing typically is... 😊
God also put Christian teachers at my school too (public school). It gave me the impetus to seriously consider Christianity as a worldview. EDIT: I had leftist teachers, Republican teachers, and everything in between. Today, however, I think, non-woke educators (I hate the word "woke," because those who describe themselves this way are not woke, but soiritually asleep) wouldnt feel the same freedom to openly share their worldviews in a public school setting. Today we have trans-affirming policies in the name of anti-bullying.
As a mother with grown children and as a current mental health therapist contracted to teach in today's public schools, i would offer that public school isnt the same beast it once was. There's a difference between exposure to different ideas- and indoctrination of those ideas.
@@whobeyou5342 yes I agree. There’s sooo many differences in schools now. I attended from 05-17 and there was never any worries of “gender identity” now it’s being indoctrinated, boys dressing like girls, pronouns, and so much more being pushed on kids now. Whatever is being accepted in the world now ( on social media, ads/commercials) is being accepted in schools
I must firmly disagree with the idea that we shouldn't want/seek for our public schools to become Christian schools. We should! That would be the power of Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel if that did happen.
@@joshuaclaibourn9847 The alternative is evil, pagan culture. In fact, Catholic schools started since public schools were really protestant Christian schools. Neutrality is a myth.
Jen has older children. Her youngest is 22 years old.. I also come from a very large family of public school teachers/principals and I beg to differ. Public school is NOT what it was even 5-10 years ago. I think this woman would have a different point of view if she had children currently in the public school system……
We had our children in public school but changed after: 1. I personally witnessed a child hurl a desk across the room. Because he has an IEP, he was back the next day 2. A child on our school bus route brought a gun on the bus. The parents did not know about it but I learned from those in leadership. 3. I personally witnessed a child fall asleep and play video games in class. I was warned by teacher not to wake him or he would become aggressive. 4. As a substitute teacher I was hit, kicked, and nearly bitten by a child. When the office arrived they did not remove the child, they removed the class and myself so we could finish class while they "reasoned" with the violent student for more than 45 minutes. 5. The curriculum has changed to make parent assistance difficult. Having tutored honors math, I am quite competent in mathematics. My third grade daughter came home with common core math that required Google searches to figure out what they were asking. Imagine my shock when typing in the question proved it was a very popular search. Other parents were in the same boat. This is part of the equity push that says children should not have homework since parent assistance is inequitable. The social studies curriculum is also very biased. The answer to problems was government. Immigration was always presented as positive without considering that illegal entry and large influxes can cause hardships for natives and immigrants alike. Rather than presenting facts and timelines, there was a constant theme of oppressor/oppressed (critical theory). Now I wonder why it took so long to pull them out. I think we feel like Jen Wilkinson that we could be light in school. But as we hardly had time with them at home, it became apparent that they spent more of their waking time in darkness than sitting with us pouring in the light of truth, God's love, and Scripture. And I have yet to meet someone in the homeschool community opposed to Christian's teaching in public school so I wonder where Mrs. Wilkinson got this perspective.
I have always wondered how you could believe that a "State" school would be better than a Christian based type of education. I am not sorry that I did without some things that enabled my children to go to mostly Christian schools. When I went to public schools, it was in the Bible Belt and many of my teachers were Christian and even Pastor's wives. It was a different time. But I will say, being a teen in the 1960's in public school was very influential in my life and like many others, I had to come back to what I believed and renew my Faith as an adult. Surround your vulnerable children with as much of God as you can.
I can tell by a lot of these comments that people did not actually pay attention or listen to all sides of the debate discussion. I thought this was a very good conversation with good thought provoking statements. What works for one family may not work for another. Nobody should be telling anybody that only one way is best because of their own biased opinions.
The main argument for not sending our kids to public schools should NOT be to just protect them from woke ideology (thought that is still a great reason!). Instead, we should strive to give them a CHRISTIAN education and Biblical worldview, which you're not going to get in a secular institution.
Jen's take on extracurricular is interesting to me not because I disagree, but because I agree, however, she doesn't view the public education piece through the same lens.
Plain and simple what does the Bible say? Who is supposed to be a child’s educator? Is public school biblical? How can you send your children to a government school to teach subjects apart from God? You can’t.
No one answered or asked, "Where are your kids with the Lord now." What good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul? This idea in relation to your own kids is totally missing in this conversation and it's not a good thing. The proof is in the pudding folks, and the pudding is getting worse every passing year (more kids raised in the church and public school are walking away).
Yes. What a huge miss. The POINT of education isn't primarily if they end up good at math. The point is to love the Lord with the heart, soul, and MIND!
Not quite. The type of education you provide to your kids is evidence of the type of parent you are. Christian parents cheerfully provide Christian education to their kids because are required by God to provide a Christian education.
Children cannot always be 'parented through' what they experience and witness in public schools. As a child that suffered through the public school system, I didn't know to talk about what I experienced! With what can a child compare such things? Can we rely on young children to know when to ask for help (rescue) from miserable public school life? Parents are entrusted by God to provide for and protect their children! Public schools are a failure at both and ought not be delegated what is a parent's responsibility. Children actually kill themselves because of their inability to cope with the soul killing, abusive environment with which they are faced with daily!
I honestly don’t know how I feel completely about this “debate”. I know Jen’s experience is somewhat special and not normal due to family members roles/positions w/in the public school system. Someone also brought up the question in the comments about how their children’s current walk with the Lord as adults is not mentioned. This would be nice to know. The following is just me sharing my experience… Being raised in public school 1-12, I can say the “social” aspect sucked. As an adult I often use to tell my mom if you took out the social part of growing up in public school, I really enjoyed my teachers and most of what I learned. The time left over after school (I got involved with extracurriculars so I could stay away from home longer for "independence") even while being in a Christian home was not spent training and teaching me God’s Word outside of church (Sundays & Wednesdays) unless I was in trouble for something. No one sat down and taught me how to read and study the Bible, etc. I didn’t start doing this until almost 10yrs ago. I just knew I didn’t believe in evolution, and I would always tell my mom that was a horrible lesson and a test was coming up for it. I knew nothing else was wrong in what I was taught honestly in regards to worldview. I just had a conversation last week with my oldest after watching the KKK episode of Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, that I remember a boy coming to school who happily boasted about a KKK group in the next county who was trying to recruit him. My son was surprised to hear that. Not to mention the influences around me from peers--only cared about what we wore & clicks, drugs (thankfully I was convicted enough to not try any), sex, alcohol, sneaking around, lying to my parents, etc. We also have personal reasons and convictions. I originally started homeschooling to “get a year back” where I sent my oldest to school full time in pre-k, while I worked full time at a private school. Plus I knew we would move eventually and I didn’t want to go to multiple different schools in the meantime. My husband's work schedule only allowed him to be home in the evenings 1 hr or less before it was bedtime M-Sat. That was a rough year emotionally for all of us and that wasn’t even at public school. I have grown the most as a believer in the years I have been homeschooling. I can’t imagine all of that energy and effort being applied somewhere else after so many years into this. My children are flourishing. My oldest still can’t believe how little I knew about what the Bible says until the past decade. I tell him, “That’s why I’m teaching you guys now because I want you to know. I want you to make decisions based on what God’s Word says.” Plus I noticed Biblical and secular worldviews in what’s being taught wasn’t addressed really. Jen just mentioned having access to what’s being taught in their “great” schools, etc and a “world class education” from the public school system. I’m glad the 15,000 hrs children are away from their homes was brought up. The messages and phone calls I have received since 2020 is very sad pertaining to what parents are finding out from their children or faculty in our local public schools and libraries. I love being home with my family and so do my children. They can’t imagine being away from home as long as other children are. They often see the bus go by our home, and each time are grateful to be home. My oldest, most importantly, is grateful to be learning about God throughout his courses. He said it would be very difficult to learn in an environment w/o God in it. I could say more, but this is already pretty long.
You are so right. Negative Exposure, especially Social, is incredibly damaging to children. When you send your kids to school, you increase the risk of that significantly. You have no clue as a parent what they experience through out the day with the interactions of other kids unless they tell you. My middle school years were terrible, and I was exposed to so many things at a premature age that I was not ready for. Don’t let people tell you they need social interaction from Public School to develop social skills. There are so many opportunities, you should be plugged into a church with other children and families, there are homeschool co-ops, homeschool sports and arts.
Two biblical teachers, that are supposed to live their lives according to what the bible teaches and barely a mentioned of the bible and what God has ordained for the family. They both have published books, they are both biblical scholars and all we got was their opinions. Trust not in your own understanding! Read your bible, Genesis to Revelation and figure out for yourself what God would have you do. Here is a hint, nowhere in the bible does it say that you should send your children to Caesar for their education, otherwise as Voddie Baucham said, you will get Romans back. Any biblical teacher, that tries to tell you what you should do and does not have a biblical context to back it up you should wonder how much really do they read their own bibles. For instance when Jen sent her kids to school all of this woke stuff was barely on the radar, now it is everywhere. However the bible does not change, the word of God does not change. Trust only God for how you are to raise your children.
I have many issues with this video, but my biggest issue is she seems to be too prideful in her statements? Almost like she’s against homeschooling? She stated fear mongering other parents? All you have to do is open social media and see our country is going away from Christ more and more. Public schools don’t want Christ in the schools and public schools are allowing so many things that are anti-Christ. Our children need to be protected from the worldly view and the pure pressures of public schools. I grew up in public schools and it wasn’t the best education. We as Christians should definitely question government public schools. We’re set apart and we’re not the same. Not being at a public school isn’t leaving behind other Christian kids or trying to show other kids Christ. It’s called using your brain and knowing that public schools aren’t the answer.
"Well- rounded people can come out of home-schooling" - Jen Wilkin - Does she realise how many weirdos come out of public school? Sorry, but that's such a condescending statement from her.
Absolutely agree. She seemed shocked that any “normal” people come out of homeschooling. A lot of respect was lost for her from this “debate,” and her condescending tone
Agreed 👍🏻 my kids have been homeschooled their entire lives and can speak to anyone about a variety of topics. They have manners, look people in the eye when they're speaking to them, aren't obsessed with devices or social media and are creative and critical thinkers. I'm sorry but I do not see those traits in the majority of public school kids and I've worked in YMCA programs, Awana and other children programs. It's like talking to brain-dead kids that cannot function without a screen in hand. Public school is the worst place in the world for kids unless you want them to be indoctrinated Marxists that hate what is good and love what is evil.
As a graduate of Pennington's school and someone who chose homeschooling and private school for my own kids, I still have to admit that Wilkins had more and stronger reasons for her position in this particular discussion. You can tell that's the case by the closing statements - Wilkins concedes the practical schedule benefits of homeschooling, but Pennington actually conceded the spiritual and social benefit of public school as often the main way families connect with their communities. From personal experience, my family does feel less connected to my community because we don't attend the school of our neighbors. I'm otherwise impressed with the spirit of this video, as this models the freedom and conviction each unique family should practice in their unique circumstance, and how to celebrate and support other families who choose other options. My church has every education method represented, and i think that's a net positive.
I love the positives that you are pointing out. My kids are in public school and I’ve taught in public school for years. And we fully believe and are devoted to Christ.
Good debate. Jen is very well spoken and thoughtful in her responses. However I would say she is an exception to the normal public school experience. She is a very active mother, in a good school system, with kids who were very close in age and inside knowledge to curriculum being taught. Most public school kids don't have active parents, aren't in great school districts, don't have sibling peers etc. My public school experience was fraught with sexual abuse, exposure to drugs and alcohol and I attended a "good" school. I thought it was funny that the homeschool proponent literally had very little negatives to homeschooling and not much understanding to the pro's of public school. I love that Jen is being a force for the public school and I agree we should support them even if we homeschool but I will not risk my small children being exposed to secular morals for the sake of some socialist ideal of public school. All kids deserve an education and I'm glad school are an option but it doesn't mean it's the best option and I'm not sending my kids to try to make it better for others. We love homeschooling, although sometimes it can be maddening if you have a strong willed child lol, but ultimately I don't know how anyone could think a stranger (teacher) who has a low budget and 20 kids could teach your child better than you, the parent who has their best interest at heart in all things and a smaller number of children to focus on. There are definitely cons to homeschooling like juggling multiple children of different ages and accomplishing housework etc. but ultimately I think it's much more ideal. This doesn't even touch on the point of allow the children a more natural sleep schedule, healthier food options, and many other benefits of homeschool. But I definitely have understanding for those parents who feels its not possible for them or they wouldn't be able to do it. I cried when I took my oldest out of kindergarten but it's been a blessing, she is excelling, and she is one of the best behaved children when we go anywhere. It is all up to your personal conviction ultimately and where the Lord leads you.
Yes, to all of those pros of homeschooling. I fundamentally disagree with the philosophy behind public education, so it’s hard to imagine that being on the table.
Yes! When I was listening to her story I was like her and her husband did an awesome job at going above and beyond at being attentive. But majority of parents ( I worked in the public school system and so did my husband ) don’t have that option. Growing up in the public school system is how both my husband and I were exposed to pornography at a very young age, not to mention sexual abuse on my end from peers and adults and walking to school. My dad died when i was 7 & my mom grew up poor in a third world country so home schooling was def not even ever an option. Everything anti God I learned in school. And working now with my friend’s kid who they are super Christian , their child loves the Lord, but that peer pressure. It’s getting harder and harder.
Are they teaching our children creation, or a big bang/evolution/millions of years theory? Are they teaching our children that we come from monkeys or that we are created in God's image? What are the statistics of Christian families that send their children to public school, and the kids end up being God fearing, born again believers? Lots of great conversation here, but I cannot be convinced that Christians should send their children to public school.
I’ve taught in the public school system and can guarantee you that I will never send my boy there. I teach in a “conservative” rural district and we still see all kinds of weird things parents just wouldn’t even know about unless they asked.
This was overall a thought provoking discussion. The one big issue I wish they would have spent more time on was addressing how to raise our children in a biblically literate way and in the grace and admonition of the Lord if you are consistently sending them into a system that at the very worst hates God/religion and at best wants to even minimize the Christian foundational idea of this being God's world/his law/his order. I wanted to hear them both discuss how much we as parents must value developing our children as a whole/virtuous person in a rigorous Christian based environment. And honestly at the end of the day that should matter more for us parents, particularly in today's school culture than anything else.
I wish they would have spent more time discussing this idea of making decisions for your own family while also thinking about the larger community. What if i think the decisions I make for my family are the best decisions for the community but the community won't accept that bc of my biblical worldview.
You can know what's in the textbooks. You can know what the teachers are saying when you're around. You can know what questionable things the teachers are doing/saying that your kids recognize as inappropriate and remember to tell you about. You cannot know what's being taught in public schools.
I enjoyed this. The moderator asked great questions, too. My husband and I were both raised in non-Christian homes and went to public schools and very liberal universities exposed to everything you can imagine and came to faith. The Lord is sovereign and will supply wisdom in each unique situation. I appreciate that there is Christian liberty in these decisions. Thanks TGC for putting this on.
This woman is making me NOT SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOL! Her stance is too "allow" my child exposed to violent children and those struggling academically! My son is slowed down daily by these children. I had to make a stance and put my child first.
When I was 18 years old, my church experienced a shooting where my pastor was killed. I lived in a small community that was known as "safe." I mention this because I feel like a lot of my parents friends are choosing home school or private school for safety. I really appreciate what Jen said regarding this. You cannot control your kids safety. I WISH I could. I really appreciate this discussion and can see positives and negatives from both sides. Ultimately we are choosing public school for now. My husband and I are on the same page and feel confident about our decision.
We homeschool our kids and my oldest is regularly confronted with social justice topics through church and interactions in her small group, which I’m thankful for. Our kids will be confronted with unrepentant sinners and loving people with truth is what we are called to do which isn’t safe in public schools.
Come on, Gospel Coalition! Let’s have a real debate! Get Israel Wayne on here with Jen W. Homeschool is the only way to go because the Word of God is our guide as Christian parents and it is clear in calling us to disciple our children, to not expose them to evil, to train them up in the fear of the Lord. We will be held accountable for this before Christ!
I believe that very young children should go to Christian schools that really strive for excellence in curriculum and faith. However, if they are older like freshman in high school it would depend on how parents have trained their children to defend their faith and talk to their peers . If your children can't or won't defend their faith, keep them in Christian schools to learn how .
Public school is a wicked place to send you believing child. Why send them to the devils playground when we are to be protecting them from this. Kids are easily molded.
This may not have been Jen's intention, but she came across a bit aloof in her talking points: Jen mentioned the cost of Christian school as if it was selfish...we all make sacrifices for what we feel is important; why should we feel guilted over that, especially if we know our kids are receiving additional support in their faith (I understand not all Christian schools are walking in the biblical faith). Jen mentioned that we need to sacrifice for the community's greater good, not just looking at the interests of our own family. Her premise is flawed. My homeschooled kids can most certainly care for their community in multiple ways that do not necessarily include a public school education. We also had time to care for the needs of those in the Body (visiting seniors, hosting other families during regular school times or grocery shopping for someone in need). Jonathan made a great point in that being homeschooled you have flexibility for your kids to start working at a young age and learn extra skills. It is true that there is no ultimate "safe" place (expect for being in Jesus), but let's be honest, there is such a thing as safe and more safe. Why is it hard for Jen to concede that as loving, Christian parents, home is a safer place than a public school with a sexually driven agenda, severe mental illnesses and teachers/students being assaulted by weapons. I picked up on the fact that Jen was quite concerned about a "world class" education and what her kids have gone on to accomplish. However, she ended up conceding that there was a lot of wasted time. Instead of her just admitting it, she viewed it as "human nature study." Really? What was missing in this "debate" is an emphasis that we are called to raise children who do not have the same mindset as this world (i.e.: worldly success and accomplishments), but the focus is godly character so that we can be a testimony as we go out. We understand God is sovereign over all and He calls us each on a slightly different journey; Jen and her husband have every right and freedom before the Lord to have chosen a public school education. I felt her points of defending the public school were weak and she would have been better off to just say the public school is a dark place, but that they had complete peace and confidence that is where God wanted their kids.
I am never worried about a lack of “diversity”, for lack of a better word, with my kids even as homeschoolers. We are involved with our community and we meet so many who are so different in each environment whether at the playground, Church, neighbors, the grocery store, community sports, etc. It’s just a normal part of everyday life. Homeschooling offers as much diversity as you invest in. Same with public school. Just because you’re around people who are different than you at school, doesn’t mean you’re being intentional with that environment. Intentional relationships is how you get diversified interactions. Not location.
Wait, so the way that Deuteronomy 6 played out in Jen’s home was for them to pull their kids out of church early so they could spend time together? Did I hear that correctly!? Mine and my husband’s primary responsibility before the Lord is to raise our kids in the admonition of the Lord, not the community. Raising children who love God and love their neighbor will pay more dividends to their community in the long run than allowing the secular state to shape them in their formative years. Paideia, like he mentioned is so important. The reasons he suggested were the reasons we chose to homeschool. We don’t send missionaries overseas without seminary training and cultural and language preparation, so why do it with our children? Our children’s faith needs to be solidified in Christ as the foundation before we send them to the world. We are not insulating them forever, we are creating healthy guardrails and adjusting the boundaries as they are ready for the terrain.
And secular/christian ideals aside.... in just the last 2 months there have been multiple stories about the physical threats kids- and teachers face in the public schools. 6 yr old shoots his teacher, a teen girl commits suicide after being beaten by peers in the school hallway, a teen is given a binder to hide her breasts and is called by another name when her guidance counselor helps her to become him/they without telling the mother. - school in 2023 is a whole new world. - and before anyone says "that doesnt happen everywhere" - remember that's what other parents once thought.
Overall, I hate to say it, but it seems like Jen almost values children in general as much as she does her own children. I don’t disagree with what she said, just how she prioritized it.
You are one hundred percent right. I made the mistake of sending one of my kids to public school for a short time. It was ten times worse than I thought.
"Six Baltimore City schools - five high schools and one middle school - were found to have not a single student who scored proficient in math or reading in 2016, Fox45 News reports." Why send my children to a place where God is not allowed, but every sexual sin is promoted and praised! Homeschooling has changed in the last 20 years and it is not expensive to teach children at home. Secular citizens ( parents) also have issues with state funded schools. Homeschooling is not a salvation issue, but you can't tell me that public school will allow the teaching or growth of a christian worldview.
I love Jen Wilkin as a sister in Christ, who desires to follow the Lord and raise up her kids with her husband in a God fearing home. I can't help but disagree with her on a Biblical basis, but also to see the comments of others in the public schooling system also show that public schools right now are simply not the place. It's nearly like putting kids in a gladiator ring expecting them to know how to fight evil. I get it, in home training is crucial, but even if world view is taught at home, where are they spending most of their time? I trust Jen and her husband take this seriously, and I do pray their kids turn out okay. For others, this is just not the time for this. Getting back to Bible basics is teaching our kids discernment through teaching and example. Be involved with local schools through sports and other activities, but the classroom right now is literally indoctrinating kids who's brains are undeveloped, that's an issue! Unfortunately, the world's tug is powerful. May the Lord have mercy on us in this time. God is in control.
Good faith involves honesty and debate involves more than one side. The gospel coalition may want to rethink the name of these progressive indoctrination discussions
I'm a foreigner and came to a public school at a crucial age in 8th grade ...In my experience if I had to do it over again I wish I had the chance to go to a Christian or home school. American public schools are outrageous including many teachers. Although education begins at home you can't deny that spending most of the hours of a day with many ideas that oppose faith and challenge your values can have a negative impact especially if a child isn't mature .
It’s difficult to take her viewpoint seriously. She espouses loving your neighbor yet she sent her children to a well to do school district. Is that truly helping others according to her definition? Should she not have moved somewhere and worked in an inner city district? Did she not choose what’s best for her children by sending them to an affluent school district? What’s the difference between that and someone sending their child to a private school? She’s paying higher taxes for them to go there whereas private school is out of pocket? There’s some inconsistency in her viewpoint. Before I started homeschooling, when I sent my kids to public school I had a lot of opinions about this subject…. Experience changed that. Exposing your children to different cultures, viewpoints and people are one thing, leaving them in it 8+ hrs a day where we know children are more peer oriented than parent oriented is a risk that we have to be truly honest with ourselves about.
I really appreciated this dialog. But I had to catch my breath when the comment regarding being married to a service member is "inconvenient". That made me sad. I knew the speaker said they supported the service member... but it still hurt to hear that... as a veteran and a military spouse. Life in service to the defense of our country is never easy and it would mean the world if your family supported you rather than seeing the separation as an "inconvenience".
I think she said this because she misses being around them, she would rather have them closer. She sounds very proud of her children and I don’t think she meant it negatively.
Philippians 2: Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. This scripture is in references the one others. Paul is speaking about how Christian should treat one another. Not that we should not consider unbelievers. Paul says in Galatians 6:10, to do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Doing good does not mean we have to participate in secular community without considering the cost and or motive. Jen, use of Philippians 2:3 is misused. Also, I would like to see how many teachers felt vilified. I am a Christian and was a teacher, I never was vilified by christians. I would love to see her post. Again, the letters to the one another's is to put the need of the one another's first. Also, is she thinking about public school as a hold are just her district? Seems like those who are christians take teach well in various skilled or academic subjects should help other families that would help with the cost issue. Even if it is for a small fee.
Dictionary Defnition of the word Debate - "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward". Looks like a debate to me.
I’m only halfway through the video so far, but I feel the need to mention these things in response to some of what has been talked about up to this point. One way that homeschoolers get that experience of being intertwined with different kids of different races or socio-economic situations is in those extracurricular activities that she mentioned she and her husband had to limit (in my opinion extremely so) with their children. My son (who has attended private Christian school, as well as public school, and who is currently homeschooled) may be homeschooled, but he is involved in extracurriculars through our local public school district. We also make sure to sign him up for various camps and things throughout the year which, because of the flexibility in homeschooling, and the family interaction we get throughout the day because he is home with us, we don’t “sacrifice” family time for him to be involved in those things. We don’t need to. We don’t send him off to school all day and then have to try to monopolize every minute of the late afternoon/evening time as only family time in order to make up for those 8 hours daily of separation as a family unit. Homeschooling is definitely not for everyone, as mentioned, and isn’t even an option for many, but when it is an option, and when it truly is beneficial to your children and their education and development, it is very narrow-minded to come to the conclusion that somehow by homeschooling our kids, we are robbing the public school of our positive or charitable influences on those in different family or socio-economic situations. The same interaction and influence her kids get during a school day sitting in a classroom, my son gets within the extracurricular a offered by the public school. I’d like to also address her comment of her children who attended public school as receiving “world class education.” I almost laughed out loud, not out of disrespect, but I out of the blanket statement that somehow the public school system is offering superior academics. Keep in mind I have a sister-in-law who is a public school teacher and many friends and acquaintances who are as well. Like I mentioned before, our son has experienced all 3 education systems: private school, public school, and homeschool. By far, his homeschool education has been superior to the other two, and it’s not even close. Private education would be a definite close second, and his public school education would be third, but so far beneath the other two that it almost disappears off the chart. We chose to homeschool FOR academic reasons. It wasn’t from fear or having some sort of separatist attitude. It was BECAUSE the public school education he was getting was inferior to what I was able to offer him. Our son is highly intelligent and learns at a rate much faster than most kids. It didn’t seem to matter what gifted programs he was in, they were all beneath his abilities. The only choice we had was to continually have him skip grades. The problem with that methodology is that he also is an extremely gifted athlete, who LOVES to play sports and excels in any sport he’s involved in. That’s a part of him that would have to be sacrificed if we moved him up several grades. A little 12-year-old in high school would never be able to play JV or Varsity sports. He would be too small, too underdeveloped, compared to the 16, 17, 18-year-olds he’d be competing against. It’s not fair to him to make him sacrifice his athletics in order to get a solid education; on the flip side, it’s not fair to him to make him sacrifice a solid education in order to play sports. So the solution? Homeschool him and challenge him with higher education classes than a normal 12-year-old would have, while allowing him to compete in sports through the public school system with the other kids his age. One last thing I’d like to mention is this stigma that many people believe about kids who are homeschooled, that somehow they are these anxious, wallflower-type, socially-immature beings. In our son’s case, it couldn’t be further from the truth. Anxiety isn’t in his vocabulary. He makes friends anywhere he goes with anyone he meets - from other kids of any age, clear up to the elderly in nursing homes. So I just wanted to debunk that theory that seems to still be floating out there amongst those who have never actually experienced homeschooling for themselves.
It is strange that homeschooled students are categorized as shy wallflowers! Of course there are some homeschool children who have that disposition…and sone public school and private school kids who have that disposition as well. There is nothing wrong with that type of personality, but why do people think education system is the sole or primary determinant? As for “world class public education”, I had to re-listen to that portion because I was so shocked by those 4 words being used together that I was certain I had misunderstood. She does not understand homeschooling and while she is knowledgeable in many things, in this instance she is arguing from a position of ignorance. One thing Jen seems not to have considered - nearly every homeschool parent is a public school graduate and a large, growing number of them are secular. What is the reason for that?
I agree with you. World class education is quite extreme and obviously a case of hyperbole. I am not suggesting all the education is terrible, but I am also suggesting that very rarely if ever it is truly excellent. You simply cannot do excellence with the structure of no kid left behind. It won't happen. I also know examples of people who graduated from high school who couldn't read.
Yes. All of this! My kids are very gifted athletically and love sports. They also enjoy art and being involved in church. While in the public school system, it was becoming apparent that we had to choose...either school or extracurriculars. There was not enough hours in the day for both. So, we decided to homeschool. Our kids have such a wonderful balance in their lives now. They can get a great, solid education with excellent homeschool curriculum (including live,on-line teacher led classes) and still pursue sports that they love and even try new activities. My son is in 9th grade and does both club soccer and plays for our local high school team. So many of his soccer friends are thinking about quitting the sport because they are exhausted. They are in school from 8 - 4. At practice from 4 - 6 (much later, like 9pm if they have a game after school). They never see their parents or siblings. I don't think kids should have to decide between going to school or doing sports or extracurriculars. They should be able to pursue both and homeschooling has allowed our kids the best of both worlds.
Gifted education in our public schools is a dismal failure. Parents who don’t have special needs children (and gifted kids are a part of special education) who tell you that you must put your kids in public school are incredibly ignorant and obnoxious. Put your kids where they can flourish. Glad you found that for your son!
My issue is I went to Flower Mound High School which is the school she is speaking of and it is basically a private school given the amount of wealth in FloMo. So of course if you can afford to live in a district that is basically its own private school why wouldn't you send your kids there? But that is not most people's position. I love Jen and I realize she can only give her perspective but in my opinion it is scewed.
Exactly - FloMo HS certainly isn’t Woodrow Wilson HS in Dallas. Perspective based on locale matters. We are homeschooling in Plano and our school district is experiencing a decrease in student enrollment.
This was definitely NOT a debate. This was Jen's personal perspective on public school education and Jonathan almost apologizing for supporting a homeschooled/Christian school education. My personal conviction is that public schools (most specifically and especially in these times) are too far gone to have any overwhelming Gospel influence. If a believer was to truly let their light shine like the saints of old (not just be a soft or mute presence), they would likely be accused of intolerance, hate speech or thoughts, etc...Jen's school district must be one of the few that still has a moral compass. Where I live, it is becoming increasingly agenda driven and less about actual education. One point I am thankful that Jonathan was bold enough to speak to is the hours that kids spend away from parents at school. Especially when they are young and so impressionable it is vital to have those hours to pour truth into their lives and not have mixed messages. This may not have been Jen's intention, but she came across a bit aloof in her talking points: conceding
Wilkin should NOT be in leadership. Whoever gave her a spotlight has no discernment and should care more for her soul because she will be judged more severely as a teacher.
Public school teacher here, 1st grade. This experience has definitely shown me that I do NOT want to send my children to public school. Agree 1000% with Voddie Baucham that the curriculum we often teach is not “neutral”, but truly anti-Christian, as I am having to DAILY sift out truth from error so my students will know the Truth. Let alone the anti-Christian ethics being covertly taught that are NOT curriculum based. Education in America is both explicitly taught and implicitly taught, and kids don’t always have the ability to recall the implicit teachings that take root in their heart. Kids are being discipled morally, emotionally, spiritually, as well as academically in these places, which is a LOT to deconstruct after the fact. They need a strong foundation before they are tasked to enter into and reach an anti-Christian world. Won’t be teaching in public-ed for much longer 😞 hope this helps someone.
@@rayd9639 Hello, thank you for the reply.
In regards to your initial question, "What parts of the curriculum is anti-Christian?", I can provide two tangible examples (though there are more) of the curriculum we use to help with this question. In first grade, we teach units on the origin of the universe and the Earth and species. The curriculum does endorse the idea of the 'Big Bang' theory, Darwinian evolutionary theory (which is now being redacted by modern scientists and previous supporters of the theory). I do not need to go into detail as to why this teaching is problematic for Christian parents of 6 and 7-year-olds who send their child to receive public education. Secondly, the curriculum we use teaches an overview of world religions. In our lesson on Christianity, I have found that unfortunately, students are being taught and shown an inaccurate representation of the Jesus of the Bible. A quote from our read-aloud depicts Jesus as "a prophet who lived long ago", and that Christians merely try to live our lives by the Ten Commandments (only partly true, but falls short of the whole truth). I have found that I need to bring clarity to my students about who Jesus really was and is in order for their misconceptions to be properly addressed. A great deal of my students are either Catholic or have never been to church, so it is important that I present the RIGHT Jesus to them above what the curriculum says.
As for the other things that you have stated, I do not think I understand what you are trying to communicate. These are not principles being taught, but explicit teachings that are perpendicular to the Bible. I hope that these examples will shed light to the truth that anti-Christian teachings that are indeed being taught in public schools.
Same, I quit and moved out of state to be home with my children.
Home girl gets it wrong
God bless you for trying to make a difference and thank you for your honesty! ❤
@@MeganGantt22 thank you!
@@acrawford26 Christians are real fragile if they think their kids are endangered learning about basic beliefs of other religions. “Jesus was a prophet from long ago” is a perfectly valid belief for anyone who wants to live in the US and go to public schools. This neutrality you speak of doesn’t take away from you and your kid’s ability to practice Christianity, it prevents Christians from having power over everyone in this country. One’s faith is not strong if simple facts like: Jews believing Jesus was just a prophet, is threatening.
I find it unbalanced that this debate is by two parents who are virtually empty nesters with college graduates..The state of public education has drastically changed in the last 5 years which also varies from state to state and that wasn't really addressed.
Not only that but the fact that there is no diversity here. When trying to include different experiences, you must include diversity in the people you interview.
@@valerieedwards9536in what way?
@nykka3 Possibly because there were no parents who currently have school aged children at home that are in public school, private school and who are homeschooled?
Soooo true
Could not agree more. My twins just entered Kindergarten
Her point about how our decisions not to put our children in public school creates a vacuum. I would just like to say I am not responsible for other children but I do have a duty to raise mine! I can't make my decision based on others but the conviction God gives me!
AMEN
Exactly my thoughts too!
agree, I'm not going to throw my children to the wolves because somebody else is worried about a vacuum. I can't fix the school system but I can love, nurture and protect my children.
Homeschool is the safest place for your kid. Period. This woman says that if she had homeschooled, there would have been a homicide. I know she is joking, but that is exactly why it would have been good for her to homeschool. With all her Bible teaching, etc she never learned how to deal with the frustrations and pressures of being around her kids 24/7 and teaching them? That says a lot to me. When you homeschool your kids, you have to depend on God every minute for His grace to do the job. And that is one of the best reasons to homeschool--it changes us, not just our children.
Far be it from me to side with Jen Wilkin, but she does have a point. Not every home is safe for homeschooling. For instance, there is a high rate of sexual abuse in homeschooling families, especially when there are a lot of kids and adolescents in the home. Of course, nobody likes to talk about this, because we uphold families with a lot of children that homeschool as the gold star standard for Christian life, and if anyone ever points out the flaws, they're automatically branded as homeschooling haters or against large families (neither are true.) But there are serious and often complicated problems with this idea that every family should be homeschooling, regardless the family situation. I'm not a proponent of public school at all, but I think all churches who are serious about keeping children out of public schools should get serious about financially aiding families so that they can afford Christian school (or better yet - start their own Christian school.)
She’s got a lot of spiritual growth that she failed to grow…
@@rdnugent1 I'd like to see your supporting evidence of this. I suspect it is a very small percentage. Christian schools can abuse too. But it is not the norm.
@@phyllissmith2538 As far as evidence goes, I have only anecdotal. Our former church did an entire conference on sexual abuse in the church, and it is much more rampant than people would like to acknowledge. While abuse CAN happen anywhere (including Christian schools), the particular that makes abuse in the home is that it is insular. It's easier to keep secrets and cover up things in an individual home with one "head" than it is in a large building with hundreds of kids and a swath of adults with some semblance of accountability. If a family's ideology is that the husband/father is the head, that appearances of being a "good, Christian family" is paramount, and that there is even a tight firewall between the family and any thing on the outside, it's a petri dish for secrecy, no accountability, and sometimes, abuse. Our pastor and his wife have seen countless examples of this, as they have been called upon by other churches across the country to come and help whenever a church discovers there is sexual abuse in a family within their congregation. I could go on much longer, giving other reasons, but I'll stop at this point.
Amen.
“We cannot continue to send our children to Caesar for their education and be surprised when they come home as Romans” - Voddie Baucham
Don't quote that guy here, you'll get banned 😂
You do realize the United States is still a very Christian nation right? Sending your kids to public school still means kids are around a lot of Christians. It’s just that they are different kinds of Christians and a few non-ones of course. Should be alright though because Jesus walked among poor and different people right?
If anything you have it the exact opposite. Sending kids to private school is sheltering them in the most affluent settings with the wealthy. Their status and beliefs as wealthier people are maintained which is like exactly what the Roman Empire was to the poor people in the Middle East during Jesus’s time.
This comment is so ignorant of the climate of public school
@@rayd9639 The United States is very much secular. There is no prayer or scripture in public schools taught as the Truth.
@@awilson8521 Would a Jew be correct in saying the US is secular because the Torah/Talmud isn’t taught as the truth in public schools? What are your views on the freedom on religion in the first amendment?
It's more important for our kids to get to heaven than it is to get them to Harvard.
Homeschooling is the right choice for us.
That’s so good. Heaven over Harvard. Or Heaven > Harvard.
I can see the homeschool t-shirts now.
LOVE THIS!!!
amen
Amen!
Amen!
As a former public school teacher, I agree. There is so much wasted time in the classroom and so much that goes on that parents are unaware of and unable to parent their children through.
I homeschool 9 children 5 of our own and 4 of my deceased friend’s children. This requires many financial sacrifices, but our children are worth it. We are active in our community and serve inside and outside of our church in a variety of ways. I have a dream of starting a school down the road to give other children these opportunities. Allowing the secular (at best) state to decide what’s best for children educationally seems counterintuitive.
Bless your heart for stepping up and homeschool a friends children. I’m sure that mama is so so grateful. ❤️❤️❤️
@@modelingmotherhood ♥️♥️♥️
O😢p
Excellent.
I was a public school educator for 14 years in 2 different districts and I recently resigned to be with my young children ( 2 and 4) and I WILL NOT be sending my kids to public school. It is such a discouraging environment. Most parents don’t know what really goes on at school, because If they did they wouldn’t send them to it.
Same. I was a teacher aide. I quit and pulled my kids out of school and I now work part time.
If you want to make a difference start talking to your local church about providing classes in the school the five days it's closed. Somebody has got to start providing other options and it should be the church since we can't seem to get legislation on school choice.
amen. the ladies at my church are asleep because they're all a much older generation. they don't see how times have changed
I’ve been a youth pastor in 2 different cultural contexts. I’ve had public school, home school and Christian school families. Students walking with the Lord during their school years and post graduation predominantly come from home school families, some come from Christian school families and almost none come from public school families. I was a staunch public school kid when I got married. I wouldn’t even consider home school. But after a decade of being a student pastor it’s almost not even a conversation that homeschool was the best option for our family in discipling our kids.
I have taught in two different public schools so I am not sure where you are working but some of the best young Christians I have met came from public schools. I have met far less really strong Christians ready to be a part of the kingdom from private Christian schools. As a matter of fact I have seen a lot of racism, pride and bullying in Christian schools.
Interesting... I worked in Columbus and Cleveland, Ohio. Pretty much had the same experience in both places. Parents play the biggest role in the student walking with the Lord post-graduation. But from my experience, parents who sent their kids to public school had the least involvement in their student's education; they seemed more concerned about athletics and extracurricular.
I'm not saying there are no outliers. I worked for 2 years at a private Christian school as well, and I would agree with your assessment.
I see the opposite in youth ministry: our homeschool and Christian school kids tend to be more cliquey and exclusionary. Our public school kids are more steadfast and kind. That said, I think a parent/guardian's involvement in their kid's life is the most important factor, especially in the later teenage years.
This is in the Bible Belt though (Rural Eastern Kentucky). Most teachers are likely sympathetic to Christianity, if not following Christ themselves.
correlation is not causation. perhaps the family's commitment to faith led to homeschooling in addition to other lifestyle choices: making church a priority, regular family discussions/bible reading/prayer regarding God/faith, living a God honoring lifestyle, etc. I'd be curious to try to filter by those families who live and walk their faith AND attend public school VS similar family cohorts that attend Christian schools, to see faith outcomes .
I graduated over 10 years ago now and I got a decent sampling of public school having attended 9 different elementary, 2 middle schools and 1 HS. Even I vowed to NEVER send my kids to public school and I was an atheist who vowed to abort my babies. I was subtly taught to challenge my parents, that Marxism was good, God was bad, motherhood was abhorrent, etc, etc. Praise God I didn't abort, but was rather saved by our Lord & Savior after becoming a mother. Took some convincing my husband, but after 2020 he got totally on board with the idea of homeschooling. Lol. Now with our 4th on the way, we are still going to homeschool all our our kids, praise God.
Praise God!
Thank you and God bless you and your sweet family.
What a testimony you have,🙏🙏🙏
❤❤
Public school teacher here. I listened to the entire video. I’ve worked at 3 districts almost all grade levels. I choose home school every day more than ever…
Thank you for speaking up. He chose homeschool as well.
Same. I teach in the public school, but my son is homeschooled - and we live in a very rural area in the heart of the Bible Belt.
Thank you for speaking out! Blessings!
We homeschool our 3 for several reasons. 1) We know we can educate them better than public school. 2) We don't want them to be raised by their peers. 3) It's our responsibility to disciple them, and we do that as we teach, imparting a Biblical worldview into education. 4) We want the freedom to say, "we control our schedule, not a school district,' so, we go on vacation when places aren't crowded and such. 5) Socialization is much more natural in a homeschool environment. When else in life, besides school, are you surrounded by ONLY people your age? 6) We started out as the typical 8-5 family who only spent a couple of rushed hours a day with our kids. That didn't seem to be good for any of us. So, we changed it.
Point #2 "We don't want them to be raised by their peers" - absolutely an important point. Remembering my teaching years, that was an unexpected observation, the remarkable power and influence of the peer group. I taught first in a Christian school, then in a secular private school. My last years of teaching were in public education. I was surprised that the peer influence in public education was so much stronger and mostly negative. I think home education, done well, is the best option if you can pull it off.
We love homeschooling!! Such freedom and the joy of spending time together as a family, which I never knew we missed until COVID hit and I got my babies back.
Formerly homeschooled here - what you’re saying does sound okay but it assumes that your should be the only power/control/influence in your kid’s lives.
I know many formerly-homeschooled kids and let me tell you, the results long-term can be disastrous.
It’s not how society is meant to function. Even with loving, well-meaning parents, you just don’t give your kids the tools they need to enter the real world.
I dearly love and respect my parents but I don’t know if any formerly homeschooled kids who now would choose to do the same.
It has a lot more to do with parental pride than it does what’s best for the kids - otherwise more proem would be asking out opinion instead of jumping in assuming they know what’s best.
many of my peers did not turn out to be able to function in the works well, and many had no idea how to have strong faith in the real world.
The work force in includes many different types of people.
Controlling your own schedule, your kid’s schedules, every single thing they learn, every kid they know - it’s just not healthy and doesn’t lean into trusting God.
Remember, even Jesus lived in Egypt for a time.
I understand the desire to homeschool but I dislike that people think its better.
It’s not better (I understand it could be in some very broken school systems) it’s simply alternative.
This was fantastic. My main follow-up question is whether all their children are still Christian or not? Not that we can perfectly execute a plan to "grow" Christians, but I think that's a factor I'd love to know.
Me too!
Are the Christian teachers actually being vilified and maligned by their Christian friends OR is the reality of the rot of public school being talked about and the Christian teachers assume that means them too? I support Christian teachers being missionaries in the public school. I think most Christians do too. That doesn’t equate to needing to have our kids discipled for 8 hours a day by people who aren’t always Christians. Some who are actively looking to subvert parents, despite the naivety that Jen seems to have on this issue.
Yes, the public school teacher aspect is a completely separate issue not even worth mentioning in this video.
Great points
Exactly
Great point.
As a Public schooled student I gotta say I hated it there, for many reasons mainly for stifling my curiosity and boring me to death with their approach to teaching. Not to mention the teachers- most of whom were not good examples and the kids even more so. After working in public schools for 5 years, I decided to quit and become a homeschooling mom. It’s a sacrifice and we are not as well off as our peers but I would not have it another way. We love our days learning and exploring and most importantly God and the Bible are in every subject and part of every lesson.
Homeschool mom here (first year!) and I mentor a 5th grader at our local inner city school. I love that Jen mentions supporting our local schools while doing what is best for our family and children. To us, the benefits of homeschool outweigh public school, but that doesn't mean we step out of serving the local school. Additionally, I think Jen lives in Texas, which is a much different public school environment than here in Michigan. Additionally, I think it's important to note that Jen admits she has had a bad experience with private schools. That makes sense that she pushes public school for her own family. Lastly, we werent ALLOWED in the school for two years due to Covid- so being involved has been taken from us.
agree i’m in MI too and I get this!!
Did you watch the whole discussion? Jen literally said that we "ought not be doing what's best for our family". But instead, adopt the Marxist tripe of doing what's best for the whole (as if supporting public education accomplished that).
Public school teacher & parent here. Thank you for your support! We're not in competition
Thank YOU for pouring into students. You guys are the real heroes. Can I ask a question? Does it feel hurtful towards your profession when you hear of a parent homeschooling? I would hate for that to be the case because I truly want wonderful public schools and want to support them.
These comments are scary. As Christians it baffles me how we can slander and malign other Christians. Feel free to disagree with her, but discounting her ministry and even discounting the scripture she used and instead calling her marxist is wild. There are many Christians that dont have the ability to homeschool. These comments could leave those Christians to feel shame and even judged. Lets be more Christian while maintaining your convictions.
I definitely don’t think Jen’s experience is normal. As someone currently in BC Canada who has a school board in our town with 5/8 school board members who are trans/gay etc we are in a loosing battle. The number of poor graphic and sexual books being encouraged to be in our libraries is unreal. The fact Jen has access to what curriculum is being taught is not normal. Our school district has actually band parents from knowing whT is being taught. Again her exerpienece isn’t the normal public school experience. We pulled our kids 2 years ago after 5 years of extreme bullying in public school we opted for a Christian private school and the bullying carried over there. Our kids are not sacrifices. I whole heartedly disagree with Jen’s poi my of view that we shouldn’t be looking at what’s best for our family but the community. Again I’ll repeat, at what cost?!? Should our children’s mental health suffer and the just allow them to be bullied to the point of wanting to commit suicide? Jen’s experience is not normal for public school at all.
Interesting her kids were not involved in extra curriculars. I think homeschool students absolutely have constant connect with kids of all socio and economic backgrounds - homeschool groups, extra curriculars, church, neighbors - being in contact with all of the above gives your kids access and experience with kids of all ages and backgrounds.
I thought that those comments about community over family sounded like she has been indoctrinated by the public school system into socialism.
As the church, yes, the church should be acting that way within itself. But… the government? I don’t think that’s taught in scripture.
I think you need to ask yourself, is Jen actually this naive or is there a level of subversion here?
I know some public teachers who are Christians trying to remain firm and faithful, and they all acknowledge how hard it has become (and becoming).
The idea that someone can answer this question "Yes", without very careful qualification is absurd. And almost everything she said was not justified or based on emotion.
What do you mean the bullying carried over? How would the new school deal with it?
Were in BC as well and I fully agree with what you said.
Did the bullying stop in the Christian school? I’m thinking of sending my daughter to our local one.
I was so frustrated watching this. It’s like they hand-picked somebody who wouldn’t give a real robust defense against Jen Wilkin. I appreciate her. I’ve been to the Village Church. I’ve read her books. She’s a very good apologist for public education. She’s not shy about it, so why can’t they find somebody to debate her who’s not willing to be shy about it on the other side. Throw an arrow in the room of 100 homeschooling mothers who’s homeschool their children K through 12 and they could probably give a better defense. The gentleman was nice enough and nothing against him, but it wasn’t really in my opinion a true debate . She lives in (as she states ) a very good school district. Probably one of the top in Texas. She was able to be super involved and had a family member that is part of the school system. That’s something that 99% of people could not replicate in this country. So the debate seemed kind of one-sided, but also for the wrong reasons. 
Yes! Can you imagine Jen debating Voddie on the topic of education? Or Nicki Truesdale?
@@haleeburchoh she would never debate them. She would get demolished in that debate. I pray she gets the opportunity to find a actual debate
Amen to that. I think a lot of homeschool mothers would love an opportunity to respond to this “debate”.
100%
Yeah, unfortunately it seemed like this guys version of “good faith debate” was more like “I’m so sorry I disagree with you, will you forgive me?”
Something we as parents must always remember is that children are not a distraction from ministry. They are the greatest ministry that God has given us. Just imagine the impact raising just one Godly child could have on the world.
Society and public schools have changed drastically in just the last few years-and not for the better. This is something Jen has been privileged to avoid. Choosing to send kids to public school is gambling. You never 100% know what they are being taught, even if you’re a teacher in the next class over.
Personally, I’ve seen the village and I don’t want it raising my kids.
So well said!
Amen, not only do I not want the “Village” raising my children, I don’t want them attending the Village church either lol.
No flack towards her by any means, it is important to note Dallas is a little Bible belt. Even if there is some liberalism in part.
Love you brother, the Village is a wonderful church. Jesus died for His Bride, let us love each other with the same love.@@GuidoDeBres-kg2bx
Another former public school teacher turned homeschooler here. We are a growing community.
Jen's experience sounds much like mine. The problem comes with the generational slide. Parents assume that school now can't be that much different than their experience. This world and it's beliefs are marching ever onward toward Godlessness unless guarded or, when needed, reformed. Remember that at a time in these United States nearly all major educational institutions were Christian in orthodoxy and orthopraxy.
What public education in the US once was, was a blessing from it's founding. Where it still flourishes is a testament to inherited blessing from submission to God and His law.
There is a time to abandon it. There is a time where we're throwing our kids in the deep end... often times assuming they'll learn to swim or the water isn't so deep as it actually is.
Where I live it tends to be the case often that our kids in the public educational institutions are abandoning their faith. They are catechized into the secular world view faster than we can raise the flag of caution.
I’m young and grew up Christian. I’ve never understood this common point on how the culture is corrupting kids so much. American culture and history is dominated by Puritan Christian values and it still is. We are still a very Christian nation so all the cultural complaints you have can be caused by the ideology you want to defend.
And people like you often connect critical race theory to part of this decline, like learning about Afro-American history and culture, but Black people have some of the MOST Christian beliefs out of any demographic. If anything theirs is more genuine. They are more likely to focus on the love and liberation side of Jesus while white Christians in America are rampant with greed, materialism, and pride.
For the many parents signing the praises of homeschooling on here, I understand your hearts from from a place of love. However, few consider voices like mine (formerly homeschooled).
I believe that most people, even well-meaning , good parents who homeschool do it more for themselves. It is done out of anxiety and a need for control and total influence over their kids lives. How can we be prepared for the real world if we haven’t even interacted with it daily? How can we enter a workforce full of non-Christians with wisdom and integrity if we haven’t had any practice along with parental guidance?
I do not feel it’s necessarily wrong to homeschool but there is no educational hierarchy. There are pros and cons to both. Having been homeschooled (and yes, it was done fairly well) and known dozens and dozens of homeschooled families, I would never homeschool my own kids. Key point: I’ve seen the long-term outcomes, not the short-term ones. I have seen too many family relationships damaged by Homeschooling.
I think it is quite prideful to assume that, as parents, we are the best/only teacher for our kids and should be the only influence. Others may have different and better perspectives than we do.
Having our beliefs challenged is okay. We should give our kids some credit.
Also, as for other homeschooled kids (as adults) some are Christian, some are not. Many are extremely liberal after entering the real world. Homeschooling is no guarantee for having a child grow up to be a disciple of Jesus.
In society we are not meant to be just living our own lives in our own homes while sending our kids out to a group a couple times a week/month for some socialization. We are meant to be in community together.
I do not mean to malign anyone but I think that homeschool families should think hard about why they are doing it and what they expect the outcome to be of being the only teacher in their child’s lives. And also looking at our own pride (including myself as well - I know I don’t have the answers!) and pray and ask God to show us His heart.
As I said, there is no moral heirarchy in education. Let’s none of us assume we are at the top of one.
“Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
-Vladimir Lenin
I was a public school teacher in CA and I quit my job and rearranged my life and priorities completely, in order to stay home with my two children and raise them and train them in the Lord. I wouldn’t trade it for anything! I grew up in the immoral training of the public school system and I was thrown into a cesspool of evils that I wish I had been protected from. You do not need to be a teacher to homeschool, you have been chosen to raise your children, God will give you all you need as you depend on him. I encourage anyone considering homeschooling to ask your Heavenly Father for direction and leading, he will guide your path ❤
I really hate it when I hear Christians joke along the lines of “there might have been a homicide” or “I’m gonna kill ___” but all the more awful to say “if I had had my kids around me all the time and tried to teach them… I might have killed them. 1st of all… no you probably wouldn’t. 2nd of all its not a joke, as anyone actually touched by homicide knows. But it shouldn’t take personal experience for this to be acknowledged.
If you can't parent 24 hours a day, it is parenting that needs work not the necessity of sending them off for 8 hours.
This grieves my heart too 😢
They talk about people who can't homeschool, single moms etc, and Jen's concern about ALL the kids getting a good education and loving our neighbor through being active in the public schools...but what if we as neighbors and friends of these people opened our homes to homeschooling those kids? Formed neighborhood co-ops, so to speak. We would be actively involved in helping our neighbor and being active members of our community. I think it's a myth that homeschooled kids don't socialize and aren't involved in the community. On another note, in our small town, our church is not homogeneous...our kids interact with plenty of kids from different backgrounds.
Because I will say as a former public school teacher that education has been turned into a business...it's all about money. It's not about great teachers or bad teachers, it's about kids in seats so the school gets money.
In my state it’s not legal to homeschool other peoples kids. I am currently opening a private school with extremely low tuition to try to make up for this law.
I wish they would have not just talked about the moral issue in the public school but also the TIME waster issues. Endless performances, dress up days, parties, sooo many things that WASTE teachers time rather than just being able to do what they love…teach. Oh and underpaid. The common parent has NO idea how many ridiculous HOOPs teachers have to jump through. The school system is broken. As much as I love Jen (currently walking through Abide) I wish they would have addressed schedules, and how they rob the children of simple things like PLAY and being outside.
I challenge everyone who thinks this is a “nice” debate: does it actually, honestly reflect the real dilemmas in today’s education, or is it just one side completely validating itself with another side weakly pushing back?
While listening to this woman speak I kept wondering where does she live? What planet is she from because I don't know any public school on earth that pleases me as much as she is pleased. Something must be wrong with her.
I agree with you but I felt like there was no "other side". They were all speaking on behalf of public school. I think we just watched a paid advertisement for public schools.
@@br.m you nailed it
She lives in a more affluent suburb of DFW
@@amberphillips9059 makes complete sense. Of course she does. Having grown up in one of those, she meets all the criteria
From what I have seen of TGC debates, that is the intent. "Good Faith" doesn't mean use nice voices...it means don't be manipulative and deceitful. Which is exactly what they are doing. They set it up to make Jen Wilkin look like the Victor and promote their liberal, woke, and man centered Christianity.
Happy to see from the comments that their plan didn't go so wll
Blessed is the parent who puts his child in the counsel of the wicked, in the way of sinners, and in the seat of scoffers; - Psalm 1:1 Jen Wilkin Version
Internet win of the day
Scary 😬😬
Wilkins personal experience doesn’t make an argument. Its irrelevant to what the majority of public schools are teaching.
Secondly, public school by its nature is anti-Christian since it doesn’t teach from a Christian worldview or use the Bible as an ultimate source of authority. In the words of Van Til, there is no neutrality. Our presuppositions about the world, reason, etc are totally different than the non christian.
I would like to know if Jen Wilkin still is involved in her local school in any way. She stated that it was so important for Christians to do this but seemed to imply that it’s while you are raising your own children. I would think that when your children are grown it’s an ideal time to volunteer, attend school board meetings, tutor children who need extra help, etc.
@The Gospel Coalition Thank you for this conversation.
This question/comment is for Jen.
Firstly, my wife and I deeply appreciate your work and incredible Bible teaching. We just finished up your Genesis study and the first half of Exodus and are constantly blown away at the depths of study you provide. Thank you for what you do!
We live in more of a politically progressive part of the country. Our own school district has very actively implemented a number of pretty radical policies/pedagogical approaches. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are teachers and administrators in the local public school system (both Christians and non-Christians) that have clearly communicated serious concerns about what is happening on-the-ground in our own local schools and that the environment is becoming increasingly hostile to Christianity as a whole. This includes very specific examples such as gender transitions (without parental knowledge) in 1st grade and an in-school drag queen story hour, during school hours, in a 4th grade classroom, to name a few.
When I hear fellow Christians describe parental concerns as "fear mongering" it hurts because our experience has been one of wrestling deeply with these very real concerns. We really struggled with the idea of keeping our children in the local public schools as a way to seek the flourishing of our city, but there came a time when we felt as though the social pressures and secular worldview being foisted on our children on a daily basis were deeply unhealthy in their spiritual and educational development, thus we made the financial sacrifice and began sending our three young girls to a private Christian school.
Our family does not want to flee, or use the public school as a punching bag by any means, but we also have seen some really gnarly and unnecessary pressures being placed on our young girls by those deemed authority figures in their lives. In a situation like ours, when we have seen first-hand some of the more extreme examples, how does a Christian healthily engage a system that has become quite hostile to a Christian worldview?
Would you please consider not using the phrase "fear mongering" in these conversations? While it may be so for some in certain locations and cultural contexts, there are parents being aggressively confronted with these issues on a daily basis, and many of us feel entirely written off by this particular framing. Personally, when I hear this phrase used, it creates a hurdle for me to hear much else about what you are saying, since it demonstrates that you are clearly speaking into a very different context than what we are experiencing.
Again, thank you for what you do!
Your brother in Christ!
Thank you for your well thought out comment. I hope JW reads it. Public Ed may be sufficient and safe in Bible-belt Texas where JW lives, but in most of the US and Canada (where I live), Public Ed is openly hostile to Christians and the Christian worldview. There is no 'neutrality', and children from Christian homes are in no way able to be 'salt and light' in the current progressive school culture. And secondary to moral and spiritual issues, the educational standards and outcomes are low compared to private schools and UK/EU countries. You cannot trust the progressive Public Ed system to give your children a proper foundation in reading, maths, and sciences, unless you are willing to heavily supplement at home, have a regular tutor, or go to a tutoring center summer program.
There is plenty for Christians to fear, so I agree JW should refrain from using "fear mongering" in this discussion. I'm glad there are still a few places where Public Ed is a decent option for Chrtisians, but it is rare. I stand by that. I have teaching experience in secular private, Public Ed, and Christian school. My children went to private and then a Christian school up until high school. No regrets despite the personal costs and financial sacrifices. Dear Christians, I would absolutely try to find a way to educate your children outside of the Public Ed system.
@@candacew-s2936 I think one point is that JW did specifically say "I did not send my kids to public school to be 'salt and light' I sent them to get a world class education". Obviously each school district is different, but the idea of our kids being "missionaries" is not one that JW espouses.
JW's comment on "fear mongering" was not a call to ignore the stances of public school districts. Her direct comments are
"I know what OUR school district is and isn't teaching and what I see happening now around this conversation is a great deal of misinformation and fear-mongering. ... Some of the things parents will say ARE being taught I know are NOT being taught and what I think is happening is people read an article about something that happened somewhere else or they hear a story and there's a lot of hearsay that travels around about what is or isn't going on and because we live in a time where fear is something that is leveraged at every turn it takes root and they end up making a fear-based decision instead of an educated decision. ... There are legitimate things to be concerned about with a public school education but whether your district is actually the one that is implementing those things or not is something that you should get first-hand information on not have heard about from someone else"
So I believe her comment is definitely accurate and she is encouraging parents to actually have first hand experience of THEIR SPECIFIC district and make a decision accordingly, but not fall into fear of the "public school system" generally. And I think we can all agree that those fears have definitely been stoked in the absence of personal due-diligence
@@jmeyering11 I agree with you. I do not think Jen is making a bad faith argument here and I know that drumming up emotional responses based on fear is a powerful tool that many of us use or fall prey to all the time.
That said, I do find a number of very influential Christian leaders who will use the label of "fear mongering" to deny entire issues and claim that other Christians are simply operating out of fear and/or political idolatry. There is this sense from some of "that isn't actually happening" which leaves a number of us in a really weird spot who actually have been doing our own due diligence and have seen some intense stuff. I want to hopefully bring awareness to the fact that this is indeed actually happening in certain places right here and now and Christian parents are having to wrestle with it and make some really big life-altering decisions accordingly. Our family did.
I also think there is a trajectory, that even if your district isn't dealing with it now, it won't be long. Christians should be unsurprised and prepared on how they are going to address this when it comes their way.
I find that in this conversation, Jen kind of left of at the point of saying "this isn't happening at our school, and the educations is good, so that's how I come to my stance." But what if, as in many places, it is happening and the education is actually quite poor? I would love for her to engage that question a bit more head on, because it is a reality for many.
Yes, I did note her comment about not having her kids there as "missionaries." I should have specified that the 'salt and light' argument is one I have heard many, many times in convos with Christians who fervently argue that Christians should have their children in public ed. They also argue, as JW does here, that public education is a common good, and as Christians, we should support our communities' families by not 'abandoning ship' but by remaining in the school system because it benefits the community through our presence and participation in Home and School, school board, committees, volunteering etc. I understand that viewpoint both as a Christian parent and retired public ed teacher, and agree that there was a time when Christians could and did make a difference by their presence and participation. That time is long over, in my opinion. No doubt there are some 'good schools', in high income and more 'religious' areas, but it is not the norm. Recent books I'd recommend: re the North American public ed academic decline - 'The Knowedge Gap' by Natalie Wexler. Also, on the moral/spiritual consequences of public education and why Christians should get out, check out 'The Benedict Option' - Rod Dreher.
I worked in the public schools and I will never send my kids there Lord willing 🙏
This wasn't a debate. This was a nice mediated conversation. No cross examination? That's the best part of a debate!
Dictionary Defnition of the word Debate - "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward".
Looks like a debate to me.
I'm surprised at the volume of comments lambasting public school. Whether you choose to attend or not, these are YOUR schools. You have a civic duty to see that they are properly stewarded and should seek to improve them. What about the millions of children who do not even have a choice? Do Christians vacate the institution out of fear of the lion's den or do we put on the whole armor of God and go do our duty!! I have experienced homeschooling, private school (Baptist), and public school. They all have pros and cons, but at the end of the day I find it hard to honor the call to "go out and make disciples of all nations" if we shrink back from the public sphere.
11:25 Every parent needs to do what is best for their family. That is called being a parent. Nobody would turn their own into a homeless shelter endangering their children and claim, Oh well, I don't need to do what is best for my family but the community by in large. Worst still, what is best for your family is what is best for the society by in large. It is a false dichotomy.
Thank you!! When she brought this up I wanted to scream. When the scriptures instruct us to care for others it's always within the church. Paul is clear to note this within the scriptures . The public school system and most of the people in it are not part of the church. I'm not sacrificing my children in the name of "community". She's leaning progressive on that.
@@Honey_bee-09 I will never sacrifice my children on the altar of anything. I am convinced many people are sacrificing their children on the altar of convince, worldliness, wordily success, respectability, sports, etc.
@@Honey_bee-09 When the Scriptures instruct us to care for others, is it always within the church? Is Paul the only one who wrote of how we should care for others in the Scriptures? There is no doubt that there are instances when he is specifically addressing how we love and care for one another within our community of faith
Loving one’s neighbor should never be done at the sacrifice of their families needs and best interests.
I guess in the best interest of others I should start frequenting the local strip club to be salt and light to the dancers. Lol
Our Children attended a publically funded Charter School that was excellent. They were openly attacked for their faith as early as 2nd grade by peers who were atheist and Jewish. One boy in third grade attended school in a dress. My daughter persuaded him to use attire otherwise and remained his friend for years. She had one if her peers believe that she was neither male or female smd this delusion was re-inforced by openly atheist parents. We are very glad they attend a Classicsl Christian education today. Glad for this multi-natiional, multi-ehnic socially amd economically diverse Christiam educational setting in Princeton, NJ. So glad, no regrets.
Some Christian people today think being told to respect other’s religions is bullying and oppression.
Other religions, or alternate reality?
@@johntobey1558 Other religions
For me it’s not just the secular culture of the school, the pedagogy, the method that public education approaches education is counter to how I want my kids to be educated. One cannot look at all the data and believe that a public school education even meets the bare minimum in most cases.
Well, this sealed it for me. TGC is as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Lol
😂
This discussion needs to be founded upon the clear commands that god places upon his people. Eph 6:4b; Deu 6:4-9; Lev 18:3; etc. Also we need to take into consideration the historic emphasis of the church on providing Christian education for our children. I spent many years working in public schools and the woke ideology and secular humanism is pervasive. To add to the problem pastors have failed to teach what the Bible clearly teaches on this subject, which has allowed for confusion on this topic.
Amen amen amen. Pastors refuse to touch the subject and churches provide no support in shepherding the next generation.
I’m a second generation public school teacher who taught 7th grade language arts. I quit because I felt like a social worker and not an educator. (Every teacher complained about it yet was powerless to do anything meaningful.) After becoming a mom and experiencing the infamous lockdown, I saw the social emotional learning (SEL) was actually in every district, not just my former one. Then the Marxist brainwashing that spanned over two generations wore off. Either homeschool or try a Classical Christian school (or both depending on your child) as alternatives. It won’t be easy; however, nothing worth doing typically is... 😊
God also put Christian teachers at my school too (public school). It gave me the impetus to seriously consider Christianity as a worldview.
EDIT: I had leftist teachers, Republican teachers, and everything in between. Today, however, I think, non-woke educators (I hate the word "woke," because those who describe themselves this way are not woke, but soiritually asleep) wouldnt feel the same freedom to openly share their worldviews in a public school setting. Today we have trans-affirming policies in the name of anti-bullying.
How long ago did you go to school?
As a mother with grown children and as a current mental health therapist contracted to teach in today's public schools, i would offer that public school isnt the same beast it once was. There's a difference between exposure to different ideas- and indoctrination of those ideas.
@@whobeyou5342 yes I agree. There’s sooo many differences in schools now. I attended from 05-17 and there was never any worries of “gender identity” now it’s being indoctrinated, boys dressing like girls, pronouns, and so much more being pushed on kids now. Whatever is being accepted in the world now ( on social media, ads/commercials) is being accepted in schools
I must firmly disagree with the idea that we shouldn't want/seek for our public schools to become Christian schools. We should! That would be the power of Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel if that did happen.
Get out of here with that Christian Nationalism. /s haha. I agree.
@@joshuaclaibourn9847 when you know what it means it really loses it's scare factor, right?
@@joshuaclaibourn9847 The alternative is evil, pagan culture. In fact, Catholic schools started since public schools were really protestant Christian schools. Neutrality is a myth.
Amen!
Was just about to comment this !!! That statement surprised me so much
Jen has older children. Her youngest is 22 years old.. I also come from a very large family of public school teachers/principals and I beg to differ. Public school is NOT what it was even 5-10 years ago. I think this woman would have a different point of view if she had children currently in the public school system……
I completely agree!
And if she lived somewhere different than her current location. A fairly well-off suburb of Dallas VS inner-city education.
@@dmbsituation Exactly!
If she wants them exposed to different views, why not a Catholic school? Or Muslim? Or Buddhist?
We had our children in public school but changed after:
1. I personally witnessed a child hurl a desk across the room. Because he has an IEP, he was back the next day
2. A child on our school bus route brought a gun on the bus. The parents did not know about it but I learned from those in leadership.
3. I personally witnessed a child fall asleep and play video games in class. I was warned by teacher not to wake him or he would become aggressive.
4. As a substitute teacher I was hit, kicked, and nearly bitten by a child. When the office arrived they did not remove the child, they removed the class and myself so we could finish class while they "reasoned" with the violent student for more than 45 minutes.
5. The curriculum has changed to make parent assistance difficult. Having tutored honors math, I am quite competent in mathematics. My third grade daughter came home with common core math that required Google searches to figure out what they were asking. Imagine my shock when typing in the question proved it was a very popular search. Other parents were in the same boat. This is part of the equity push that says children should not have homework since parent assistance is inequitable. The social studies curriculum is also very biased. The answer to problems was government. Immigration was always presented as positive without considering that illegal entry and large influxes can cause hardships for natives and immigrants alike. Rather than presenting facts and timelines, there was a constant theme of oppressor/oppressed (critical theory).
Now I wonder why it took so long to pull them out. I think we feel like Jen Wilkinson that we could be light in school. But as we hardly had time with them at home, it became apparent that they spent more of their waking time in darkness than sitting with us pouring in the light of truth, God's love, and Scripture.
And I have yet to meet someone in the homeschool community opposed to Christian's teaching in public school so I wonder where Mrs. Wilkinson got this perspective.
I have always wondered how you could believe that a "State" school would be better than a Christian based type of education. I am not sorry that I did without some things that enabled my children to go to mostly Christian schools. When I went to public schools, it was in the Bible Belt and many of my teachers were Christian and even Pastor's wives. It was a different time. But I will say, being a teen in the 1960's in public school was very influential in my life and like many others, I had to come back to what I believed and renew my Faith as an adult. Surround your vulnerable children with as much of God as you can.
I can tell by a lot of these comments that people did not actually pay attention or listen to all sides of the debate discussion. I thought this was a very good conversation with good thought provoking statements. What works for one family may not work for another. Nobody should be telling anybody that only one way is best because of their own biased opinions.
The main argument for not sending our kids to public schools should NOT be to just protect them from woke ideology (thought that is still a great reason!). Instead, we should strive to give them a CHRISTIAN education and Biblical worldview, which you're not going to get in a secular institution.
Jen's take on extracurricular is interesting to me not because I disagree, but because I agree, however, she doesn't view the public education piece through the same lens.
Plain and simple what does the Bible say? Who is supposed to be a child’s educator? Is public school biblical? How can you send your children to a government school to teach subjects apart from God? You can’t.
THANK YOU. Nothing can be properly taught divorced from the sovereignty of God.
No one answered or asked, "Where are your kids with the Lord now." What good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul?
This idea in relation to your own kids is totally missing in this conversation and it's not a good thing. The proof is in the pudding folks, and the pudding is getting worse every passing year (more kids raised in the church and public school are walking away).
Yes. What a huge miss. The POINT of education isn't primarily if they end up good at math. The point is to love the Lord with the heart, soul, and MIND!
Moral of the story: the type of parent you are matters more than the type of education your kids receive.
Not quite. The type of education you provide to your kids is evidence of the type of parent you are. Christian parents cheerfully provide Christian education to their kids because are required by God to provide a Christian education.
If only that was the "debate" topic
Children cannot always be 'parented through' what they experience and witness in public schools. As a child that suffered through the public school system, I didn't know to talk about what I experienced! With what can a child compare such things? Can we rely on young children to know when to ask for help (rescue) from miserable public school life?
Parents are entrusted by God to provide for and protect their children! Public schools are a failure at both and ought not be delegated what is a parent's responsibility.
Children actually kill themselves because of their inability to cope with the soul killing, abusive environment with which they are faced with daily!
I honestly don’t know how I feel completely about this “debate”. I know Jen’s experience is somewhat special and not normal due to family members roles/positions w/in the public school system. Someone also brought up the question in the comments about how their children’s current walk with the Lord as adults is not mentioned. This would be nice to know.
The following is just me sharing my experience…
Being raised in public school 1-12, I can say the “social” aspect sucked. As an adult I often use to tell my mom if you took out the social part of growing up in public school, I really enjoyed my teachers and most of what I learned.
The time left over after school (I got involved with extracurriculars so I could stay away from home longer for "independence") even while being in a Christian home was not spent training and teaching me God’s Word outside of church (Sundays & Wednesdays) unless I was in trouble for something. No one sat down and taught me how to read and study the Bible, etc. I didn’t start doing this until almost 10yrs ago.
I just knew I didn’t believe in evolution, and I would always tell my mom that was a horrible lesson and a test was coming up for it. I knew nothing else was wrong in what I was taught honestly in regards to worldview.
I just had a conversation last week with my oldest after watching the KKK episode of Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, that I remember a boy coming to school who happily boasted about a KKK group in the next county who was trying to recruit him. My son was surprised to hear that.
Not to mention the influences around me from peers--only cared about what we wore & clicks, drugs (thankfully I was convicted enough to not try any), sex, alcohol, sneaking around, lying to my parents, etc.
We also have personal reasons and convictions. I originally started homeschooling to “get a year back” where I sent my oldest to school full time in pre-k, while I worked full time at a private school. Plus I knew we would move eventually and I didn’t want to go to multiple different schools in the meantime. My husband's work schedule only allowed him to be home in the evenings 1 hr or less before it was bedtime M-Sat. That was a rough year emotionally for all of us and that wasn’t even at public school.
I have grown the most as a believer in the years I have been homeschooling. I can’t imagine all of that energy and effort being applied somewhere else after so many years into this. My children are flourishing. My oldest still can’t believe how little I knew about what the Bible says until the past decade. I tell him, “That’s why I’m teaching you guys now because I want you to know. I want you to make decisions based on what God’s Word says.”
Plus I noticed Biblical and secular worldviews in what’s being taught wasn’t addressed really. Jen just mentioned having access to what’s being taught in their “great” schools, etc and a “world class education” from the public school system. I’m glad the 15,000 hrs children are away from their homes was brought up.
The messages and phone calls I have received since 2020 is very sad pertaining to what parents are finding out from their children or faculty in our local public schools and libraries.
I love being home with my family and so do my children. They can’t imagine being away from home as long as other children are. They often see the bus go by our home, and each time are grateful to be home. My oldest, most importantly, is grateful to be learning about God throughout his courses. He said it would be very difficult to learn in an environment w/o God in it.
I could say more, but this is already pretty long.
Yes, why how many children walk with the Lord was not asked or answered is a shocking admission.
You are so right. Negative Exposure, especially Social, is incredibly damaging to children. When you send your kids to school, you increase the risk of that significantly. You have no clue as a parent what they experience through out the day with the interactions of other kids unless they tell you. My middle school years were terrible, and I was exposed to so many things at a premature age that I was not ready for.
Don’t let people tell you they need social interaction from Public School to develop social skills. There are so many opportunities, you should be plugged into a church with other children and families, there are homeschool co-ops, homeschool sports and arts.
Two biblical teachers, that are supposed to live their lives according to what the bible teaches and barely a mentioned of the bible and what God has ordained for the family. They both have published books, they are both biblical scholars and all we got was their opinions. Trust not in your own understanding! Read your bible, Genesis to Revelation and figure out for yourself what God would have you do. Here is a hint, nowhere in the bible does it say that you should send your children to Caesar for their education, otherwise as Voddie Baucham said, you will get Romans back. Any biblical teacher, that tries to tell you what you should do and does not have a biblical context to back it up you should wonder how much really do they read their own bibles. For instance when Jen sent her kids to school all of this woke stuff was barely on the radar, now it is everywhere. However the bible does not change, the word of God does not change. Trust only God for how you are to raise your children.
I didn't like that 6-year-olds spent so much time on computers. Not just for learning, but screen time was a reward, too.
Start making christian school affordable, I would love for my child to go to a private christian school.
I have many issues with this video, but my biggest issue is she seems to be too prideful in her statements? Almost like she’s against homeschooling? She stated fear mongering other parents? All you have to do is open social media and see our country is going away from Christ more and more. Public schools don’t want Christ in the schools and public schools are allowing so many things that are anti-Christ. Our children need to be protected from the worldly view and the pure pressures of public schools. I grew up in public schools and it wasn’t the best education. We as Christians should definitely question government public schools. We’re set apart and we’re not the same. Not being at a public school isn’t leaving behind other Christian kids or trying to show other kids Christ. It’s called using your brain and knowing that public schools aren’t the answer.
"Well- rounded people can come out of home-schooling" - Jen Wilkin - Does she realise how many weirdos come out of public school? Sorry, but that's such a condescending statement from her.
Absolutely agree. She seemed shocked that any “normal” people come out of homeschooling.
A lot of respect was lost for her from this “debate,” and her condescending tone
Agreed 👍🏻 my kids have been homeschooled their entire lives and can speak to anyone about a variety of topics. They have manners, look people in the eye when they're speaking to them, aren't obsessed with devices or social media and are creative and critical thinkers. I'm sorry but I do not see those traits in the majority of public school kids and I've worked in YMCA programs, Awana and other children programs. It's like talking to brain-dead kids that cannot function without a screen in hand. Public school is the worst place in the world for kids unless you want them to be indoctrinated Marxists that hate what is good and love what is evil.
As a graduate of Pennington's school and someone who chose homeschooling and private school for my own kids, I still have to admit that Wilkins had more and stronger reasons for her position in this particular discussion. You can tell that's the case by the closing statements - Wilkins concedes the practical schedule benefits of homeschooling, but Pennington actually conceded the spiritual and social benefit of public school as often the main way families connect with their communities. From personal experience, my family does feel less connected to my community because we don't attend the school of our neighbors. I'm otherwise impressed with the spirit of this video, as this models the freedom and conviction each unique family should practice in their unique circumstance, and how to celebrate and support other families who choose other options. My church has every education method represented, and i think that's a net positive.
I love the positives that you are pointing out. My kids are in public school and I’ve taught in public school for years. And we fully believe and are devoted to Christ.
Yeah no negatives. Strange and lies.
I appreciated this debate. I just hope that Jonathan Pennington takes this as an opportunity to learn his childrens’ ages 😂
Would love to see a good faith debate between 2 parents of elementary school aged children
Good debate. Jen is very well spoken and thoughtful in her responses. However I would say she is an exception to the normal public school experience. She is a very active mother, in a good school system, with kids who were very close in age and inside knowledge to curriculum being taught. Most public school kids don't have active parents, aren't in great school districts, don't have sibling peers etc. My public school experience was fraught with sexual abuse, exposure to drugs and alcohol and I attended a "good" school. I thought it was funny that the homeschool proponent literally had very little negatives to homeschooling and not much understanding to the pro's of public school. I love that Jen is being a force for the public school and I agree we should support them even if we homeschool but I will not risk my small children being exposed to secular morals for the sake of some socialist ideal of public school. All kids deserve an education and I'm glad school are an option but it doesn't mean it's the best option and I'm not sending my kids to try to make it better for others. We love homeschooling, although sometimes it can be maddening if you have a strong willed child lol, but ultimately I don't know how anyone could think a stranger (teacher) who has a low budget and 20 kids could teach your child better than you, the parent who has their best interest at heart in all things and a smaller number of children to focus on. There are definitely cons to homeschooling like juggling multiple children of different ages and accomplishing housework etc. but ultimately I think it's much more ideal. This doesn't even touch on the point of allow the children a more natural sleep schedule, healthier food options, and many other benefits of homeschool. But I definitely have understanding for those parents who feels its not possible for them or they wouldn't be able to do it. I cried when I took my oldest out of kindergarten but it's been a blessing, she is excelling, and she is one of the best behaved children when we go anywhere. It is all up to your personal conviction ultimately and where the Lord leads you.
Yes, to all of those pros of homeschooling. I fundamentally disagree with the philosophy behind public education, so it’s hard to imagine that being on the table.
Yes! When I was listening to her story I was like her and her husband did an awesome job at going above and beyond at being attentive. But majority of parents ( I worked in the public school system and so did my husband ) don’t have that option. Growing up in the public school system is how both my husband and I were exposed to pornography at a very young age, not to mention sexual abuse on my end from peers and adults and walking to school. My dad died when i was 7 & my mom grew up poor in a third world country so home schooling was def not even ever an option. Everything anti God I learned in school. And working now with my friend’s kid who they are super Christian , their child loves the Lord, but that peer pressure. It’s getting harder and harder.
Are they teaching our children creation, or a big bang/evolution/millions of years theory? Are they teaching our children that we come from monkeys or that we are created in God's image? What are the statistics of Christian families that send their children to public school, and the kids end up being God fearing, born again believers? Lots of great conversation here, but I cannot be convinced that Christians should send their children to public school.
I’ve taught in the public school system and can guarantee you that I will never send my boy there. I teach in a “conservative” rural district and we still see all kinds of weird things parents just wouldn’t even know about unless they asked.
This was overall a thought provoking discussion. The one big issue I wish they would have spent more time on was addressing how to raise our children in a biblically literate way and in the grace and admonition of the Lord if you are consistently sending them into a system that at the very worst hates God/religion and at best wants to even minimize the Christian foundational idea of this being God's world/his law/his order. I wanted to hear them both discuss how much we as parents must value developing our children as a whole/virtuous person in a rigorous Christian based environment. And honestly at the end of the day that should matter more for us parents, particularly in today's school culture than anything else.
I wish they would have spent more time discussing this idea of making decisions for your own family while also thinking about the larger community. What if i think the decisions I make for my family are the best decisions for the community but the community won't accept that bc of my biblical worldview.
You can know what's in the textbooks. You can know what the teachers are saying when you're around.
You can know what questionable things the teachers are doing/saying that your kids recognize as inappropriate and remember to tell you about.
You cannot know what's being taught in public schools.
I enjoyed this. The moderator asked great questions, too. My husband and I were both raised in non-Christian homes and went to public schools and very liberal universities exposed to everything you can imagine and came to faith. The Lord is sovereign and will supply wisdom in each unique situation. I appreciate that there is Christian liberty in these decisions. Thanks TGC for putting this on.
This woman is making me NOT SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOL! Her stance is too "allow" my child exposed to violent children and those struggling academically! My son is slowed down daily by these children. I had to make a stance and put my child first.
When I was 18 years old, my church experienced a shooting where my pastor was killed. I lived in a small community that was known as "safe." I mention this because I feel like a lot of my parents friends are choosing home school or private school for safety. I really appreciate what Jen said regarding this. You cannot control your kids safety. I WISH I could. I really appreciate this discussion and can see positives and negatives from both sides. Ultimately we are choosing public school for now. My husband and I are on the same page and feel confident about our decision.
We homeschool our kids and my oldest is regularly confronted with social justice topics through church and interactions in her small group, which I’m thankful for. Our kids will be confronted with unrepentant sinners and loving people with truth is what we are called to do which isn’t safe in public schools.
You cannot control but you can mitigate
Come on, Gospel Coalition! Let’s have a real debate! Get Israel Wayne on here with Jen W. Homeschool is the only way to go because the Word of God is our guide as Christian parents and it is clear in calling us to disciple our children, to not expose them to evil, to train them up in the fear of the Lord. We will be held accountable for this before Christ!
I believe that very young children should go to Christian schools that really strive for excellence in curriculum and faith. However, if they are older like freshman in high school it would depend on how parents have trained their children to defend their faith and talk to their peers . If your children can't or won't defend their faith, keep them in Christian schools to learn how .
Public school is a wicked place to send you believing child. Why send them to the devils playground when we are to be protecting them from this. Kids are easily molded.
This may not have been Jen's intention, but she came across a bit aloof in her talking points: Jen mentioned the cost of Christian school as if it was selfish...we all make sacrifices for what we feel is important; why should we feel guilted over that, especially if we know our kids are receiving additional support in their faith (I understand not all Christian schools are walking in the biblical faith). Jen mentioned that we need to sacrifice for the community's greater good, not just looking at the interests of our own family. Her premise is flawed. My homeschooled kids can most certainly care for their community in multiple ways that do not necessarily include a public school education. We also had time to care for the needs of those in the Body (visiting seniors, hosting other families during regular school times or grocery shopping for someone in need). Jonathan made a great point in that being homeschooled you have flexibility for your kids to start working at a young age and learn extra skills. It is true that there is no ultimate "safe" place (expect for being in Jesus), but let's be honest, there is such a thing as safe and more safe. Why is it hard for Jen to concede that as loving, Christian parents, home is a safer place than a public school with a sexually driven agenda, severe mental illnesses and teachers/students being assaulted by weapons. I picked up on the fact that Jen was quite concerned about a "world class" education and what her kids have gone on to accomplish. However, she ended up conceding that there was a lot of wasted time. Instead of her just admitting it, she viewed it as "human nature study." Really? What was missing in this "debate" is an emphasis that we are called to raise children who do not have the same mindset as this world (i.e.: worldly success and accomplishments), but the focus is godly character so that we can be a testimony as we go out. We understand God is sovereign over all and He calls us each on a slightly different journey; Jen and her husband have every right and freedom before the Lord to have chosen a public school education. I felt her points of defending the public school were weak and she would have been better off to just say the public school is a dark place, but that they had complete peace and confidence that is where God wanted their kids.
I am never worried about a lack of “diversity”, for lack of a better word, with my kids even as homeschoolers. We are involved with our community and we meet so many who are so different in each environment whether at the playground, Church, neighbors, the grocery store, community sports, etc. It’s just a normal part of everyday life. Homeschooling offers as much diversity as you invest in. Same with public school. Just because you’re around people who are different than you at school, doesn’t mean you’re being intentional with that environment. Intentional relationships is how you get diversified interactions. Not location.
I disagree, we do choose what church we attend, I’m sure Jen has chosen the church she works at based on the theology
That’s a good point.
Wait, so the way that Deuteronomy 6 played out in Jen’s home was for them to pull their kids out of church early so they could spend time together? Did I hear that correctly!? Mine and my husband’s primary responsibility before the Lord is to raise our kids in the admonition of the Lord, not the community. Raising children who love God and love their neighbor will pay more dividends to their community in the long run than allowing the secular state to shape them in their formative years. Paideia, like he mentioned is so important. The reasons he suggested were the reasons we chose to homeschool. We don’t send missionaries overseas without seminary training and cultural and language preparation, so why do it with our children? Our children’s faith needs to be solidified in Christ as the foundation before we send them to the world. We are not insulating them forever, we are creating healthy guardrails and adjusting the boundaries as they are ready for the terrain.
"My perspective is highly autobiographical"
And I'm already against Jen's position.
This conversation was beautiful. The moderator asked amazing questions to facilitate a good faith discussion.
And secular/christian ideals aside.... in just the last 2 months there have been multiple stories about the physical threats kids- and teachers face in the public schools. 6 yr old shoots his teacher, a teen girl commits suicide after being beaten by peers in the school hallway, a teen is given a binder to hide her breasts and is called by another name when her guidance counselor helps her to become him/they without telling the mother. - school in 2023 is a whole new world. - and before anyone says "that doesnt happen everywhere" - remember that's what other parents once thought.
Overall, I hate to say it, but it seems like Jen almost values children in general as much as she does her own children. I don’t disagree with what she said, just how she prioritized it.
This lady here can not be taken serious in claiming that most of what people hear about public education is fear mongering...
You are one hundred percent right. I made the mistake of sending one of my kids to public school for a short time. It was ten times worse than I thought.
"Six Baltimore City schools - five high schools and one middle school - were found to have not a single student who scored proficient in math or reading in 2016, Fox45 News reports." Why send my children to a place where God is not allowed, but every sexual sin is promoted and praised! Homeschooling has changed in the last 20 years and it is not expensive to teach children at home. Secular citizens ( parents) also have issues with state funded schools. Homeschooling is not a salvation issue, but you can't tell me that public school will allow the teaching or growth of a christian worldview.
8:48
A "world class education"? Where did she send her kids to public school exactly?
Right!?
I love Jen Wilkin as a sister in Christ, who desires to follow the Lord and raise up her kids with her husband in a God fearing home.
I can't help but disagree with her on a Biblical basis, but also to see the comments of others in the public schooling system also show that public schools right now are simply not the place. It's nearly like putting kids in a gladiator ring expecting them to know how to fight evil. I get it, in home training is crucial, but even if world view is taught at home, where are they spending most of their time? I trust Jen and her husband take this seriously, and I do pray their kids turn out okay. For others, this is just not the time for this. Getting back to Bible basics is teaching our kids discernment through teaching and example. Be involved with local schools through sports and other activities, but the classroom right now is literally indoctrinating kids who's brains are undeveloped, that's an issue! Unfortunately, the world's tug is powerful. May the Lord have mercy on us in this time. God is in control.
Good faith involves honesty and debate involves more than one side. The gospel coalition may want to rethink the name of these progressive indoctrination discussions
I'm a foreigner and came to a public school at a crucial age in 8th grade ...In my experience if I had to do it over again I wish I had the chance to go to a Christian or home school. American public schools are outrageous including many teachers. Although education begins at home you can't deny that spending most of the hours of a day with many ideas that oppose faith and challenge your values can have a negative impact especially if a child isn't mature .
It’s difficult to take her viewpoint seriously. She espouses loving your neighbor yet she sent her children to a well to do school district. Is that truly helping others according to her definition? Should she not have moved somewhere and worked in an inner city district? Did she not choose what’s best for her children by sending them to an affluent school district? What’s the difference between that and someone sending their child to a private school? She’s paying higher taxes for them to go there whereas private school is out of pocket? There’s some inconsistency in her viewpoint. Before I started homeschooling, when I sent my kids to public school I had a lot of opinions about this subject…. Experience changed that. Exposing your children to different cultures, viewpoints and people are one thing, leaving them in it 8+ hrs a day where we know children are more peer oriented than parent oriented is a risk that we have to be truly honest with ourselves about.
I really appreciated this dialog.
But I had to catch my breath when the comment regarding being married to a service member is "inconvenient". That made me sad. I knew the speaker said they supported the service member... but it still hurt to hear that... as a veteran and a military spouse. Life in service to the defense of our country is never easy and it would mean the world if your family supported you rather than seeing the separation as an "inconvenience".
I think she said this because she misses being around them, she would rather have them closer. She sounds very proud of her children and I don’t think she meant it negatively.
Yeah, What she said was really messed up. It speaks of her character.
Philippians 2: Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. This scripture is in references the one others. Paul is speaking about how Christian should treat one another. Not that we should not consider unbelievers. Paul says in Galatians 6:10, to do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Doing good does not mean we have to participate in secular community without considering the cost and or motive. Jen, use of Philippians 2:3 is misused. Also, I would like to see how many teachers felt vilified. I am a Christian and was a teacher, I never was vilified by christians. I would love to see her post. Again, the letters to the one another's is to put the need of the one another's first. Also, is she thinking about public school as a hold are just her district? Seems like those who are christians take teach well in various skilled or academic subjects should help other families that would help with the cost issue. Even if it is for a small fee.
Jen is going to sell a lot less books after this debate aired lol.
Has she forgotten public school started in the church...this is a ridiculous attempt to justify her decision. I don't believe a word she says.
Where's the debate?
Dictionary Defnition of the word Debate - "A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward".
Looks like a debate to me.
@@thereadingtree6288 I'm missing the "opposing arguments" part.
The rest is there.
There was no opposition argument presented
I’m only halfway through the video so far, but I feel the need to mention these things in response to some of what has been talked about up to this point. One way that homeschoolers get that experience of being intertwined with different kids of different races or socio-economic situations is in those extracurricular activities that she mentioned she and her husband had to limit (in my opinion extremely so) with their children. My son (who has attended private Christian school, as well as public school, and who is currently homeschooled) may be homeschooled, but he is involved in extracurriculars through our local public school district. We also make sure to sign him up for various camps and things throughout the year which, because of the flexibility in homeschooling, and the family interaction we get throughout the day because he is home with us, we don’t “sacrifice” family time for him to be involved in those things. We don’t need to. We don’t send him off to school all day and then have to try to monopolize every minute of the late afternoon/evening time as only family time in order to make up for those 8 hours daily of separation as a family unit. Homeschooling is definitely not for everyone, as mentioned, and isn’t even an option for many, but when it is an option, and when it truly is beneficial to your children and their education and development, it is very narrow-minded to come to the conclusion that somehow by homeschooling our kids, we are robbing the public school of our positive or charitable influences on those in different family or socio-economic situations. The same interaction and influence her kids get during a school day sitting in a classroom, my son gets within the extracurricular a offered by the public school. I’d like to also address her comment of her children who attended public school as receiving “world class education.” I almost laughed out loud, not out of disrespect, but I out of the blanket statement that somehow the public school system is offering superior academics. Keep in mind I have a sister-in-law who is a public school teacher and many friends and acquaintances who are as well. Like I mentioned before, our son has experienced all 3 education systems: private school, public school, and homeschool. By far, his homeschool education has been superior to the other two, and it’s not even close. Private education would be a definite close second, and his public school education would be third, but so far beneath the other two that it almost disappears off the chart. We chose to homeschool FOR academic reasons. It wasn’t from fear or having some sort of separatist attitude. It was BECAUSE the public school education he was getting was inferior to what I was able to offer him. Our son is highly intelligent and learns at a rate much faster than most kids. It didn’t seem to matter what gifted programs he was in, they were all beneath his abilities. The only choice we had was to continually have him skip grades. The problem with that methodology is that he also is an extremely gifted athlete, who LOVES to play sports and excels in any sport he’s involved in. That’s a part of him that would have to be sacrificed if we moved him up several grades. A little 12-year-old in high school would never be able to play JV or Varsity sports. He would be too small, too underdeveloped, compared to the 16, 17, 18-year-olds he’d be competing against. It’s not fair to him to make him sacrifice his athletics in order to get a solid education; on the flip side, it’s not fair to him to make him sacrifice a solid education in order to play sports. So the solution? Homeschool him and challenge him with higher education classes than a normal 12-year-old would have, while allowing him to compete in sports through the public school system with the other kids his age. One last thing I’d like to mention is this stigma that many people believe about kids who are homeschooled, that somehow they are these anxious, wallflower-type, socially-immature beings. In our son’s case, it couldn’t be further from the truth. Anxiety isn’t in his vocabulary. He makes friends anywhere he goes with anyone he meets - from other kids of any age, clear up to the elderly in nursing homes. So I just wanted to debunk that theory that seems to still be floating out there amongst those who have never actually experienced homeschooling for themselves.
It is strange that homeschooled students are categorized as shy wallflowers! Of course there are some homeschool children who have that disposition…and sone public school and private school kids who have that disposition as well. There is nothing wrong with that type of personality, but why do people think education system is the sole or primary determinant?
As for “world class public education”, I had to re-listen to that portion because I was so shocked by those 4 words being used together that I was certain I had misunderstood. She does not understand homeschooling and while she is knowledgeable in many things, in this instance she is arguing from a position of ignorance.
One thing Jen seems not to have considered - nearly every homeschool parent is a public school graduate and a large, growing number of them are secular. What is the reason for that?
I agree with you. World class education is quite extreme and obviously a case of hyperbole. I am not suggesting all the education is terrible, but I am also suggesting that very rarely if ever it is truly excellent. You simply cannot do excellence with the structure of no kid left behind. It won't happen. I also know examples of people who graduated from high school who couldn't read.
Amen, you are also completely right that the concept that homeschooling with make kids weirdos is complete myth and nonsense.
Yes. All of this! My kids are very gifted athletically and love sports. They also enjoy art and being involved in church. While in the public school system, it was becoming apparent that we had to choose...either school or extracurriculars. There was not enough hours in the day for both. So, we decided to homeschool. Our kids have such a wonderful balance in their lives now. They can get a great, solid education with excellent homeschool curriculum (including live,on-line teacher led classes) and still pursue sports that they love and even try new activities. My son is in 9th grade and does both club soccer and plays for our local high school team. So many of his soccer friends are thinking about quitting the sport because they are exhausted. They are in school from 8 - 4. At practice from 4 - 6 (much later, like 9pm if they have a game after school). They never see their parents or siblings. I don't think kids should have to decide between going to school or doing sports or extracurriculars. They should be able to pursue both and homeschooling has allowed our kids the best of both worlds.
Gifted education in our public schools is a dismal failure. Parents who don’t have special needs children (and gifted kids are a part of special education) who tell you that you must put your kids in public school are incredibly ignorant and obnoxious. Put your kids where they can flourish. Glad you found that for your son!
My issue is I went to Flower Mound High School which is the school she is speaking of and it is basically a private school given the amount of wealth in FloMo. So of course if you can afford to live in a district that is basically its own private school why wouldn't you send your kids there? But that is not most people's position. I love Jen and I realize she can only give her perspective but in my opinion it is scewed.
Exactly - FloMo HS certainly isn’t Woodrow Wilson HS in Dallas. Perspective based on locale matters. We are homeschooling in Plano and our school district is experiencing a decrease in student enrollment.
So many contridictions coming out of her mouth 🤦🏼♀️.
This was definitely NOT a debate. This was Jen's personal perspective on public school education and Jonathan almost apologizing for supporting a homeschooled/Christian school education. My personal conviction is that public schools (most specifically and especially in these times) are too far gone to have any overwhelming Gospel influence. If a believer was to truly let their light shine like the saints of old (not just be a soft or mute presence), they would likely be accused of intolerance, hate speech or thoughts, etc...Jen's school district must be one of the few that still has a moral compass. Where I live, it is becoming increasingly agenda driven and less about actual education. One point I am thankful that Jonathan was bold enough to speak to is the hours that kids spend away from parents at school. Especially when they are young and so impressionable it is vital to have those hours to pour truth into their lives and not have mixed messages.
This may not have been Jen's intention, but she came across a bit aloof in her talking points: conceding
Wilkin should NOT be in leadership. Whoever gave her a spotlight has no discernment and should care more for her soul because she will be judged more severely as a teacher.