I must say that I, as an agnostic, am _so_ happy to see Christians speaking out against this co-opting/perversion of their faith. I was raised in a Christian Nationalist household, and seeing it from the inside has poisoned my view on organized religion, maybe permanently. Since escaping that ideology, I can't say whether I'll ever recover, but regardless, I am happy to stand with those who would fight for the ideals and principles that Jesus _actually_ taught, instead of being silent while a group of power-hungry authoritarian zealots use the Bible as a justification for committing atrocities. The Christian Dominionist movement has deep pockets, and strong ties to the modern Republican party. They are not to be ignored, or taken lightly. It will require Christians and secular folks working together, to stop it.
I believe that we are to far behind and most are not taking this issue seriously. I have been screaming this for the past few years. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are actually taking applications as we speak for their new government.
I hope & pray that you will seek the Lord with all your heart & restore your relationship with him. It truly is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ & ought not be based on what others do or say. Pastor Frank Turek said something that I'll never forget: "If a musician played Beethoven badly, would you blame Beethoven? Of course not". See? I pray that you will get alone with our creator, on a real one-on-one basis, & let him guide your thoughts & light your steps. It's only going to get worse until Jesus Christ returns (like birthing pains, scripture warns). "IT" meaning EVERYTHING, incldg the goofy false prophets (like Copeland & Todd white) & NAR/WOF like Paula White (Trump's top spiritual advisor) & ppl using terms like "Christian Nationalism" that SOUNDS right, but truly isn't. I just want to add real quick that I'm not sure if Jesus will gather his own before, during, or after the anti-Christ rears his deceptive head & reigns for 7yrs but the world will be fooled by him for the 1st 3.5ish yrs-he'll have the whole world holding hands & singing kumbaya..the second half is when all he'll will break loose. I PLEAD with you to cling to Jesus NOW & FOREVER so you are not swept up& deceived by satan, but safe & protected by the blood of Jesus. I recommend finding a local church with a pastor like Frank Turek, Alan Parr, & Mike Winger (all on youtube). (I also recommend listening to Tim Alberta. Idk if he's a pastor, but I agree with him WHOLLY. (I hope I'm not coming across as bossy or pushy. I genuinely care).
@@Anabee3 that pastor is a weirdo. I bet if we look closer we would find all kinds of devilish crap that he's participating in. I must admit they have you trained well. These pastors are nothing but conmen. Hiding behind religion. Just another pimp without the fur hat. 🤨👎🏾
@@garykcarpenter the unfortunate part of that, is that every sect of Christianity interprets Jesus' words in completely different ways, and they all claim that theirs is the one true interpretation. To "come to Jesus" seems to boil down to picking whichever interpretation is most convenient to me, and in that case, I'd rather just take responsibility for my own moral standards and choices, rather than ascribing them to Jesus. Either way, my values are very much shaped by my own subjective experience, and I'd rather not fool myself into believing these morals were given to me by an all-powerful deity, in order to artificially inflate their value.
You have everything so **** **** it's astounding one can only imagine that it's deliberate 1 can only imagine that you hate God and one can only help but feel sorry for you
I think part of the problem is that this strain of domestic terrorism was never really properly punished, ever since the original Confederates (the original "chaplain of the Confederacy" was a Southern Baptist)
Indeed. The only hope is that most of Christians won't fall for the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing that really is this thing called "Christian Nationalism". All forms of totalitarian rule are tyrannical, regardless if they come as either secular or theocratic, truth is they're barbaric, they neither reflect secularism nor do they represent the faith of actual Christians. In this, I think agnostic atheists such as myself and moderate Christians such as yourself should set apart our squabbles and unite against these totalitarians on either side, both are wrong: "In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful. In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite. In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny." - A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism IN SUMMARY: Theocratic Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule. 2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege. 3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles. 4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices. 5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment. 6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity. 7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity. Secular Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions. 2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule. 3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology. 4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority. 5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns. 6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged. 7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace.
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r TOTALITARIANISM: "In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful. In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite. In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny." - A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism IN SUMMARY: Theocratic Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule. 2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege. 3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles. 4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices. 5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment. 6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity. 7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity. Secular Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions. 2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule. 3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology. 4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority. 5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns. 6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged. 7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace. Still unclear? Any questions?
Agreed. No kind of excessive nationalism represents the Principles of any Religion, nor does white Christian nationalism represent Jesus’s teachings in any way-peace be on him and his family and blessed Virgin Mary.
🤣🤣🤣is this a joke 😮 bottom line is either you are a Christian or not. Not everyone say Lord, Lord is a genuine Christian that follow the Bible 💯these people are hypocrite and wolves 🐺 in sheepskin 🐏🐑 clothing 💯 a disgrace to the body of Christ 💯
@Aaron-SLC An ideology that perverts the Gospel by attempting to mix cherry-picked Christian teachings with far right politics in an attempt to seize power for extremist Republicans. It is idolatry. It subverts our Constitution because a theocracy cannot comply with the 1A.
To ascribe to the ( White) Christian Nationalist agenda is guilty of taking the Lord's name in vain. Dominionism has worked its way into the world view of many who identify as Christians. As a believer, I sat amongst fellow believers for 14 years, worshipping together on Sunday mornings , and sitting in the pastor's home for prayer meetings. We gathered in His name, grew close, knew each other well. Most of these friends were Republicans, while I was the lone Democrat. It was never an issue. We cared for one another. But slowly, creeping in like a shadow, the Religious Right ideology became something that grew larger in importance. Conformity was expected, so I learned to just bite my tongue. Not speak up except occasionally requesting we keep politics out of our prayer circle.) The Trump. These sweet people became rabidly identified with the Christian Nationalism mindset. The church became increasingly hostile to any among them who did not fully support the candidacy of Trump, or watch other news sources than Faux News. Suspicion towards me grew to open hostility. Covid hit, and thankfully I made my escape. I could no longer set aside, for the sake of Unity, the ugly turn towards an authoritarian mindset, a slavish devotion to Trump and Company, and the parade of false prophets that came through endorsing and proclaiming him as the Savior of Christianity. I know this because I continued to listen to Sunday services on line, just out of curiosity as to how far off the rails they would go. It saddened my heart to see former kind and loving people toss the true Christ aside to follow a christ of their own making. They incorporated the Seven Mountain Mandate into their belief system ( old Dominionism wrapped in prettier paper) became involved in the New Apostolic Reformation, replaced the cross with a Trump flag (figuratively speaking) superimposed on the American flag, and away they went. The last time I listened in, common New Age practices were introduced to teach the kids and adults how to " hear God's voice." Literally conjuring "Jesus." I was called a Marxist and baby killer before I left. I am neither. So much for putting political differences aside ( which I did until I couldn't) around the common faith in Jesus. Sadly, this is where many people in the church have gone. Into insanity land. Should become a new Disney ride. I have read some wonderful researched books addressing the subject. "Jesus and John Wayne," by Kristin DuMez, " The Power Worshippers," by Katherine Stewart, " Unholy," by Sarah Posner, and "The Family," and its sequel ," Undertow." One I have not yet read is " The Shadow Network," by Anne Nelson, another great resource for information on just how and why all of this took us by storm. Where it will ultimately end is frightening to contemplate. I see another, larger wave of violence coming. God help us. I wish Bishop Currie lived close enough to attend his services. I listened to this podcast today, July 2, 2023. I see it was aired eight months ago. Nothing has improved over this discussion. All we can do is educate ourselves, dig into the scriptures, and pray for deliverance. Thank you all for the deep, honest, and hopeful conversation on this program. I have listened to several" Christians Against Christian Nationalism," podcasts and am comforted that I do not walk alone in this epic battle against fascist ideologies parading as Christianity. As I stated, the ultimate Taking the Lord's Name in Vain. God bless.
Jim Wallace is a Liberation Theologist which is in fact Marxism. You are right to fear Christian Nationalism just don't let it drive you into the arms of Marxists. That's how the game is played. The radical right uses the radical left to drive you into their arms and the radical left uses the radical right to drive you into theirs. I pray for discernment for you. You're going to need it.
The cancer has spread all around the globe in the uniting of Right Wing nationalism with a false Christ and a false gospel. The wheat and the tares growing side by side. So many sincere believers have been sucked into this deception. I pray their eyes to be opened and a mass exodus from delusional theology occur. This has left me feeling deep grief.
Follow the money. There is a great deal of income / profit being made promoting White Christian Nationalism. Like the health care industry , the people/ organizations profiting from fight tenaciously to keep the money coming.
I’m an atheist, but I stand with all of you on defeating Christian nationalism. I was very inspired by this video. I will leave this thread by quoting a friend of mine whom I worked with 20 years ago. This saying stays true to me today. He said that it takes all kinds to make a world.
I'm not religious but very worried about the issue. It is very comforting to hear the voices of Christians that aren't a risk to me or my life I'm glad yall exist. The voice of your dangerous minority has REALLY been heard over your sane majority
Ellen G White of the Seventh Day Adventist church over 150 years ago foretold that the ascendency of fundamentalist/ nationalist christainy would culminate in America with a mandatory Sunday day of worship.Those that don't comply would not be able to buy or sell.The recent laws in Africa making homosexuality a crime was supported by African churches and implemented wit threats of withhold funds,grants,resources by sovereign wealth funds and wall street.The silence by many churches in America about these laws is because most institutional churches are invested in these wealth funds and wall street,and the churches are afraid to make a stand because of these compromises.The Beast and False prophet has a firm grip.This power of church and state is the Mark of the Beast.
This movement is political. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They plan on gutting the government as we know it and install their like minded people. Applications are online already. Their start date is January 2025. I'm telling you I am trying to infiltrate this movement.
she was/is a false teacher as Christians never made Saturday a day that needed to be worshipped. Paul met on the first day of the week because the Jewish Christians would have been in the temple that day.
Fully agreed. From a perspective that values the contributions of moderate Christians alongside agnostic atheists, secularists, and libertarians, it's crucial to recognize the insights provided by figures like Ellen G. White. Regardless of religious belief, her warnings about the dangerous fusion of fundamentalist nationalism and state power resonate with those concerned about individual liberties. By setting aside doctrinal differences and intellectual disputes, there's an opportunity for a united front against totalitarian tendencies, whether secular or theocratic. Embracing diversity of thought and shared principles of freedom can empower us to challenge encroachments on personal autonomy and the separation of church and state. "In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful. In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite. In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny." - A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism IN SUMMARY: Theocratic Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule. 2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege. 3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles. 4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices. 5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment. 6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity. 7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity. Secular Totalitarianism: 1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions. 2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule. 3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology. 4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority. 5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns. 6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged. 7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace.
Look these people are already taking applications for their new government. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. They're online already. They plan to install their new government on January 2025. They want to install a theocracy. Immediately!
It may be too late. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? Well according to that manuscript it is to go into effect at the changing of the next administration. They plan on putting the government as we know it and replace the government workers with their people I went through the application by trying to infiltrate this movement they want you to take a picture of yourself that goes with the application Yeah! This new government is to be installed January 2025.
A conversation way overdue. The more I learn about Christian nationalism, the more I conclude that there is nothing Christian about it. The teachings of Jesus are simply absent in my opinion. This isn’t what Jesus was about. The violence being espoused is so disturbing to me. We have many ill people who are so easily influenced by this. Thank you reverend for your words. I believe in the power of love but we must all push for this.
It’s amazing how powerful brainwashing really is. 😢I’ve seen it with my own eyes over decades, amongst my fellow Christians and family and friends😢 Persecution begins when you speak up, but it must happen. I agree.✝️
Exactly! Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? This is a political movement hiding behind religion. They plan on installing a theocracy starting on January 2025. Nobody's telling this part. They actually have applications online right now. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. We are not taking these people seriously.
The wcn interpretation of the bible is just as valid as your interpretation. Every religion has been used to split people into radish and ethnic groups... it's truly the worst thing humans ever did to ourselves.
If there are 9 nazis sitting at a table and you sit down without aggressively denouncing and condemning those 9 nazis.. there are 10 nazis sitting at the table.
Did you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are planning on gutting the government as we know it and installing their brand of a theocracy. They have applications online right now. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. They plan on starting this on January 2025. Even if we stop them this time they are not going away.
"With God all things are possible." Among other things, we must witness as if everything depended on us,but pray as if everything depended on Him. Às the Reverend would probably say, He will hear the voice of innocent blood crying to Him from the ground.
That is his job and role as a bishop. So many clergyman in all religions are only concerned with personal sins, while ignoring social injustices.@@TheresaStClare
I believe part of the reason WCN‘s rise is the trending extreme inequality, as shrinking middle class and growing number of the under class face live’s struggle; discomtent motivates them to raise their voice.
We are living in a new Gilded Age, where the rich are getting richer! The poor and middle class are fighting amongst themselves over differences in race, culture and religion without realizing that what they all have in common is poverty, or its threat. The poor are getting poorer. The Antichrist is using this opportunity to return to power with World War 3.
It's really nice to hear Bishop Curry express things in plain truths and common sense. If God is love, we should have love in our heart - makes sense to me!
I am so happy and relieved that I am not alone as christian who opposes to the false rhetoric like christian nationalist 🙏 Good will prevail over evil.
The sad part about this argument is that the people on here do not understand the word of God. The fact that you say America wasn’t founded on Christian principles is just plain False. What is love? Talking about love? Or telling the truth? Base your beliefs on what Christ says. Not what men say. Jesus Christ says his kingdom is not of this world
This is an informative panel discussion, but it's rather timid. Of the panelists, Amanda Tyler gets close to putting a finger directly on the problem when she says solving the problem is the responsibility of Christian churches (17:30), which suggests it originates in churches, and Dr. Samuel Perry does so again when he talks about "apocalyptic" rhetoric (49:08). Otherwise, the panelists try to tease apart Christianity and this new "ideology" for the audience while dancing around an uncomfortable truth: Christian nationalism is the threat it is now because it has supplanted Christianity to become *a new religion* for its followers. The political rally is their new tent revival. No one on that stage wants to admit this frankly because it paints religion in a bad light. It points at how easily demagogues preying on fear and selfishness can hijack people's beliefs and thinking when religion has already taught those people to - one could say indoctrinated them to - accept ideas and assertions on faith. How was it so easy for Trump to come along and convince people that "I'm the only one who can fix it"? He echoed a promise they'd heard before and learned as a central tenet of faith: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6 NIV). As much as Christian nationalism is a political ideology, it's inextricable from its religious roots and it operates religiously in its adherents' minds. Try talking them out of their positions on rational grounds, and you'll see what I mean - they don't view it as a debate, they view it as an attack.
Have you read letter to the American Church? What's happening today, happened in Germany before Hitler came to power because the church remained silent. The few who didn't payed dearly.
Kudzo we always called Devil Vine here in Texas. And wow yes can it grow, overnight it can grow like you wouldn't believe possible. Bishop Curry made such a great analogy with his statement about CN and how quickly it could grow.
Comparing Project 2025 to what happened in Venezuela with Hugo Chávez, it's like looking at a similar plan. Chávez had a strategy called the "Bolivarian purge”. The plan was also founded in 4 pillars, as well as this alleged Project 2025: Administrative, social, political and economical ; to where he replaced people to make sure everyone supported his way of thinking. This pattern isn't limited to one ideology and can hide behind ideas like "Christianity" or "nationalism." The problem is when this plan becomes deeply rooted, making it really hard to stop. If we let it happen, it might be too late for our country. The message here is simple: Put the country first, not political parties! Our strength as a nation is more important than following one person blindly. If something feels wrong, it probably is. So, let's think carefully and prioritize our country over political loyalties to protect the goodness of our nation.
The religious right would disagree with you. They always want to jesus smuggle. GOD FAMILY COUNTRY GUNS. They always want god in the mix somehow, but that's not how a healthy multicultural society works since we all have slightly varying degrees of those subjects. It should be COUNTRY, FAMILY, COMMUNITY... mix and match however you will and then plug whatever else you want after those pillars are erected.
There is a story in Buddhism when an Abbott named his successor. When asked how he did it he replied, his behavior confirmed the (Buddhist) doctrine. Like the late Lani Guinier proposed that equity policies should confirm our Constitution principles, we should support and defend individuals and policies that do and, forcefully oppose those that don't. "Woe to the man whom scandal comes, St Matthew 18:7.
Mt 18:7 "Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" Let's get it right, if we're going to quote it
Intelligent conversation with heart. What has happened in our seminaries (especially non denominational) that has led to ignorance not education and clear thinking?
That's the problem this is a political movement hiding behind religion. At this moment no religious organization has power over them. They are ready to gut the government as we know it and install a theocracy. Their start date is January 2025. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are actually taking applications online as we speak. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. It maybe too late 🙏🏾
I see you invited no one to argue the counterpoint. I wonder why? Is that representative of how Christians should engage in the public square? Just talk to those who agree with you?
This needs to be national to the large white church I'm black and was on a side of racism in the church setting keep telling it the truth of Christ 🙏🌹🙏
How can a true Christian conform to this highly false doctrine and call it Christian?? I have no problem stating America is a Christian nation because America was formed using Christian principles. We should not have a state religion where all people are forced to embrace only one religion. We should not hold America as bad just because our foundation is based on Christian principles. Now bad ideologies can creep into any religious group and make that bad.
@43:54 ff when the stuttering begins, the village of pastoral care providers in every community identifying as Christian must demonstrate with each Homo sapiens members actions in community.
@ letmetranslate4249: I attended a church for 14 years that was largely apolitical. Then it merged with another larger congregation that was affiliated with Religious Right Nationalism. Things got weird fast. I spoke my concerns with some people I considered friends and the blowback was immediate. I was then viewed as the enemy, the evil progressive. I was called a Marxist, a baby killer, and by one former friend, pure evil. The friendships ended abruptly and I walked away, dismayed by the level of brainwashing these people daily as they fed on Fox Noise, and worse. The Jesus they think they are following is opposite to the real Son of God. Deception is rampant. I was grieved to see these formally kind people morph into something unrecognizable. Blessed are the poor in spirit, the meek, the merciful, those who hunger for justice, those who are persecuted for the truth. ( Paraphrased.)
The Catholc Church will never ask voters to cast votes for a specific political party. However, the Church is correct in reminding voters about the doctrine and core beliefs before casting votes. Expect next year parish's bulletins to address the evil of abortion. Please support pregnant mothers in crisis and their babies before and after birth. Thank you.
Micah the minor prophet stated in chapter 4:4-5 "But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid. For all people will walk every one in the name of his God, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever." I think we have reached this pinnacle in our society in America.
I am an atheist. We are not trying to destroy religion, most of us were born into christian families and were raised christian. Mots of us became atheist by reading the bible from cover to cover and finding the ridiculousness of it. Pastors tell us in church to turn to this verse or that verse, not to read the whole thing. There is a reason for that. We don't care what you believe, we only care about how you treat each other.
I love this conversation. Mobilizing Love is the key purpose of all religions, at least I would like to believe it is. We need more of this sort of conversations to educate the general public.🙏
Maybe you should all read the Hindi book called the Marabata. It basically explains how you blew up the damn garden the last time you played with atomic bombs the last time you got too greedy the last time that you believed in false gods and false prophets
If the word Christian wasn't used the conversation would be so different and the threat to America and our values would even be more in the conversation than Christianity itself.
Thank you for having these discussions. I’m a former Christian atheist who apparently cares more about the Christian church more than many Christian’s do. I’d stuff envelopes for you!! Thanks for the education.
One of the issues I've had in discussions with my fellow Evangelicals as I argue against Christian Nationalism is that they assume I am arguing for liberal Christianity (low view of Scripture, liberal sexual ethic, specifically). But the opposite of Christian Nationalism is not liberal Christianity, or any specific religion, it's to advocate for religious pluralism - no official state religion. Each can seek to convert the other in the public square, but the state remains neutral. Basically, the opposite of Christian Nationalism is the First Amendment. However, too often the fight against Christian Nationalism devolves into a battle between liberal vs. conservative Christianity. This discussion was better than many, but I think you could have done more to assure conservatives that their right to belief are not being threatened. Also, I'd like to see more discussion about early American Baptists such as John Leland, Roger Williams and others, along with a reprint of their works (Specifically John Leland; I have his collected works but the print is very bad). Everyone wants to argue about the U.S. founding, and these are important voices which need to be read. They weren't all Puritans.
Too many people want to politicize religion. Christ was not political here to do things for people so Christian nationalism does not represent what Christ stood for
It's worth pointing out that the only people giving Conservative Christians cause to believe their right to worship is under threat, *are the Christian Nationalists.* Right wing media has spent thirty years telling conservatives over and over that their rights are constantly being eroded, and that they are surrounded by enemies on every side, who want to do them harm. Meanwhile, the rest of us are fairly content to go about our lives, and let people worship how they want. For example, a coffee company choosing to put "Happy Holidays" on their cups doesn't mean there's a "War of Christmas"; it just means that not everyone celebrates Christmas, and rather than ignoring those non-Christian demographics (as has been done historically), that company would rather attract business from them as well as Christians. Yet, conservative media has successfully spun the supposed 'war on Christmas' into a narrative that's almost ubiquitous at this point. IMO, the modern conservative media machine is the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity. It has left so many of them poisoned by fear and resentment for their neighbors, and enables a culture of grievance, in which the most _un_-Christian and antisocial behavior imaginable is justified by a feeling of perpetual victimhood. It then dangles a carrot in front of them, offering a taste of power and promising a return to some 'former glory' to which they are supposedly entitled, in exchange for complete, unquestioning allegiance NOT to Jesus, but to a political party, and to one man at the head of it. It's idol worship in the purest sense. It worked out pretty well for the Republican party, but how has it benefited the Church? People leave Evangelical Churches by the thousands, every year, because in modern American culture, there is no longer any discernible distinction between Evangelical culture, and the rhetoric of the modern GOP. Every time someone like Marjorie Taylor Green, or Matt Gaetz, or Lauren Boebert, or Mike Johnson, or Kari Lake gets in front of a camera and says something ridiculous or horrifying, it reflects on the Evangelical Christian Church. Whether or not that's _fair_ is another question, but the fact remains that the people doing the most damage to the Church's reputation are the very politicians its members consistently vote for.
The assumption of many people who are opposed to the idea of Christian Nationalism is that the idea is to force everyone to become a Christian, from the top down. That is not the idea. The idea of Christian Nationalism is that we, as Christians are called to evangelize the NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that America is a NATION. Nations are made of people, and people everywhere are called to repent and believe. If people do that here, we will be a Christian nation, because the people will be Christians -- therefore the representatives will be Christians, therefore the government will be Christian. Bottom up, not top down, and created by revival, sent by the Holy Spirit. Laws are morality legislated. Which morality is being legislated now? Not Biblical morality. Shouldn't we, as Christians, long for the day when the laws of the nation reflect the values of Scripture? Of course there will be debate over how laws should be written and developed, and mistakes will be made, but if the view is always to bring every thought (even legal ones) into subjection to Christ, we will be well on on our way. Christian Nationalism is the Great Commission being worked out -- over time, through individuals, who are committed to Christ. Other definitions are either 1) misunderstandings at best, or 2) intentionally misleading, or somewhere in between. One last thing. When Jesus was raised, He didn't say, "Someday in heaven, I will be Lord of all people." He said, "All authority is given to Me (note the present tense) in heaven and on earth. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, Son, and Holy Sprit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." He is Lord NOW, not just of people in their secret heart of hearts, never touching the physical world, but of ALL things -- you, your family, your city, state, nation; your job, your dinner preparation, your sex life, your children; your yard work, your Christmas decoration, your entertainment. Perhaps it's time Christians started living like they believed Him.
You just used a lot of flowery rhetoric to get to essentially the same exact conclusion. Forcing Christian values on American citizens who do not subscribe to them is antithetical to the principles we were founded upon. Religious freedom is a fundamental right and can ONLY be adequately protected when the government remains a secular body. There are countless theological sects within Christianity, and every one of them believes they have the one true interpretation of the Scripture. What differentiates you from them, however, is that you wish to use the power of the State to impose your own interpretation onto everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike. Your delusions of righteousness are precisely the reason that the Church is hemorrhaging members, and will continue to do so. You are not concerned with living out the values of Jesus Christ in your own lives and communities, but of forcing your own interpretation of "Biblical values"" on the communities of others, going off on a hunt for splinters to forcibly remove, while the beam in your own eye grows ever larger. Yours is a movement built on lust for power, control, and conformity. And it is that very mindset that has driven the abuse of Church power and authority throughout history, and has in every single case, eventually led to the revolt against and loss in relevance of the Church. Your leaders are the modern incarnation of the Pharisees, and Christianity will continue to lose relevance until you and yours are finally cast out of the temple. @@HTClassicalEd
The man is right just keep going back to the text. as said by Jesus Christ it's self. do not get tired of going back to the text as rightened in the Bible.
Thank you for this talk... I needed to hear I am not alone in the church, as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, so I can have courage to speak up when needed and how to do it.
The threat to democracy doesnt bother me anywhere near to how much I'm appalled by the horrendous black eye that is given to Jesus Christ. God is not mocked.
Seems to me that diversity is what is threatening democracy. From the United States, to Western Europe to India it is quite evident that without a predominant ethno-cultural group setting the tone the democratic system tends toward tribalism. Within a homogenous society it is easier for politics to focus on issues of class and the national good.
This provides me hope as my own Children, some have shied away from Christian "Title" based on Christian Nationalism's rhetoric! That is not anything like Jesus taught
One Nation Under God was added to the Pledge of Allegiance to a flag sometime around 1956 or 1957. It was also when IN GOD WE TRUST became the national motto.
*"Our hearts bring back the Light."* Wishing you all a Wonderful Winter Solstice. A traditional celebration dating back well over 5000 years ago where the Sun is literally rebirthed in the passageway of an ancient tomb. "The Grand Passage Tomb." A World Heritage site. Witness the rebirth in person. A celebration of life and renewal, peace and camaraderie with food, song, dance, drink and good cheer. Happy Holidays. Let the Sunshine In... *Be Happy* "Solstice Night by S J Tucker" thanks.
There's nothing wrong with being Christian no matter what color is when you want it to govern in also move other religions out of the way that is the problem. You can't have a religion be the government
Religion should never govern people. Religion is religion government is government because you research Isis you'll find how wonderful it is to have a religion government people
Good thing Jesus does, he loves us all, and warns, "judge not least ye be judged, and by the same token you use to judge others, so shall that token be used to judge you.
As a spiritual person. Who left a highly controlling, conservative Christian religion. I AM SO GLAD that the normal branches of christianity, see the difference!!!❤
Nationalism as defined by Websters dictionary is not a threat to the U.S. Republic in fact the more you love your country and its freedom the better. Those who curse it, condemn it, and attack liberty are the real threat to this nation. Not Nationalists.
Keanu Reeves is the epitomy of a Christian.He does not declare to be one, but practices christianity in day to day basis.Sadio Mane is a muslim but practices christianity in a big way without shouting that he is either a christian or muslim..
I must say that I, as an agnostic, am _so_ happy to see Christians speaking out against this co-opting/perversion of their faith. I was raised in a Christian Nationalist household, and seeing it from the inside has poisoned my view on organized religion, maybe permanently. Since escaping that ideology, I can't say whether I'll ever recover, but regardless, I am happy to stand with those who would fight for the ideals and principles that Jesus _actually_ taught, instead of being silent while a group of power-hungry authoritarian zealots use the Bible as a justification for committing atrocities.
The Christian Dominionist movement has deep pockets, and strong ties to the modern Republican party. They are not to be ignored, or taken lightly. It will require Christians and secular folks working together, to stop it.
I believe that we are to far behind and most are not taking this issue seriously. I have been screaming this for the past few years. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are actually taking applications as we speak for their new government.
I hope & pray that you will seek the Lord with all your heart & restore your relationship with him. It truly is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ & ought not be based on what others do or say. Pastor Frank Turek said something that I'll never forget:
"If a musician played Beethoven badly, would you blame Beethoven? Of course not". See? I pray that you will get alone with our creator, on a real one-on-one basis, & let him guide your thoughts & light your steps.
It's only going to get worse until Jesus Christ returns (like birthing pains, scripture warns). "IT" meaning EVERYTHING, incldg the goofy false prophets (like Copeland & Todd white) & NAR/WOF like Paula White (Trump's top spiritual advisor) & ppl using terms like "Christian Nationalism" that SOUNDS right, but truly isn't.
I just want to add real quick that I'm not sure if Jesus will gather his own before, during, or after the anti-Christ rears his deceptive head & reigns for 7yrs but the world will be fooled by him for the 1st 3.5ish yrs-he'll have the whole world holding hands & singing kumbaya..the second half is when all he'll will break
loose. I PLEAD with you to cling to Jesus NOW & FOREVER so you are not swept up& deceived by satan, but safe & protected by the blood of Jesus.
I recommend finding a local church with a pastor like Frank Turek, Alan Parr, & Mike Winger (all on youtube).
(I also recommend listening to Tim Alberta. Idk if he's a pastor, but I agree with him WHOLLY.
(I hope I'm not coming across as bossy or pushy. I genuinely care).
@@Anabee3 that pastor is a weirdo. I bet if we look closer we would find all kinds of devilish crap that he's participating in. I must admit they have you trained well. These pastors are nothing but conmen. Hiding behind religion. Just another pimp without the fur hat. 🤨👎🏾
Religion be damned, just come to Jesus my friend.
@@garykcarpenter the unfortunate part of that, is that every sect of Christianity interprets Jesus' words in completely different ways, and they all claim that theirs is the one true interpretation. To "come to Jesus" seems to boil down to picking whichever interpretation is most convenient to me, and in that case, I'd rather just take responsibility for my own moral standards and choices, rather than ascribing them to Jesus.
Either way, my values are very much shaped by my own subjective experience, and I'd rather not fool myself into believing these morals were given to me by an all-powerful deity, in order to artificially inflate their value.
It's a sad state of affairs when people need to be told this, rather than opening their own eyes and ears to see just what's happening.
True
💙🗽
You have everything so **** **** it's astounding one can only imagine that it's deliberate 1 can only imagine that you hate God and one can only help but feel sorry for you
@@ridge7524have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? Believe it or not they are actually taking applications for their new government.
I think part of the problem is that this strain of domestic terrorism was never really properly punished, ever since the original Confederates (the original "chaplain of the Confederacy" was a Southern Baptist)
Indeed. The only hope is that most of Christians won't fall for the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing that really is this thing called "Christian Nationalism". All forms of totalitarian rule are tyrannical, regardless if they come as either secular or theocratic, truth is they're barbaric, they neither reflect secularism nor do they represent the faith of actual Christians. In this, I think agnostic atheists such as myself and moderate Christians such as yourself should set apart our squabbles and unite against these totalitarians on either side, both are wrong:
"In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful.
In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite.
In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny."
- A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism
IN SUMMARY:
Theocratic Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule.
2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege.
3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles.
4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices.
5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment.
6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity.
7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity.
Secular Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions.
2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule.
3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology.
4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority.
5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns.
6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged.
7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace.
This is calling out a great danger and threat to real democracy and true human freedom.
Calling out what ?
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r TOTALITARIANISM:
"In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful.
In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite.
In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny."
- A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism
IN SUMMARY:
Theocratic Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule.
2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege.
3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles.
4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices.
5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment.
6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity.
7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity.
Secular Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions.
2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule.
3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology.
4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority.
5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns.
6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged.
7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace.
Still unclear? Any questions?
Democracy is a fallacy term that will always lead to communism and a totalitarian dictatorship .
Wake up .
Christian nationalism does not represent Christ in what he stud for. We need to say this more often.
Agreed. No kind of excessive nationalism represents the Principles of any Religion, nor does white Christian nationalism represent Jesus’s teachings in any way-peace be on him and his family and blessed Virgin Mary.
Jesus is a stud. Ok....😂
define christian nationalism?
🤣🤣🤣is this a joke 😮 bottom line is either you are a Christian or not. Not everyone say Lord, Lord is a genuine Christian that follow the Bible 💯these people are hypocrite and wolves 🐺 in sheepskin 🐏🐑 clothing 💯 a disgrace to the body of Christ 💯
@Aaron-SLC An ideology that perverts the Gospel by attempting to mix cherry-picked Christian teachings with far right politics in an attempt to seize power for extremist Republicans. It is idolatry. It subverts our Constitution because a theocracy cannot comply with the 1A.
To ascribe to the ( White) Christian Nationalist agenda is guilty of taking the Lord's name in vain. Dominionism has worked its way into the world view of many who identify as Christians. As a believer, I sat amongst fellow believers for 14 years, worshipping together on Sunday mornings , and sitting in the pastor's home for prayer meetings. We gathered in His name, grew close, knew each other well. Most of these friends were Republicans, while I was the lone Democrat. It was never an issue. We cared for one another. But slowly, creeping in like a shadow, the Religious Right ideology became something that grew larger in importance. Conformity was expected, so I learned to just bite my tongue. Not speak up except occasionally requesting we keep politics out of our prayer circle.) The Trump. These sweet people became rabidly identified with the Christian Nationalism mindset. The church became increasingly hostile to any among them who did not fully support the candidacy of Trump, or watch other news sources than Faux News. Suspicion towards me grew to open hostility. Covid hit, and thankfully I made my escape. I could no longer set aside, for the sake of Unity, the ugly turn towards an authoritarian mindset, a slavish devotion to Trump and Company, and the parade of false prophets that came through endorsing and proclaiming him as the Savior of Christianity. I know this because I continued to listen to Sunday services on line, just out of curiosity as to how far off the rails they would go. It saddened my heart to see former kind and loving people toss the true Christ aside to follow a christ of their own making. They incorporated the Seven Mountain Mandate into their belief system ( old Dominionism wrapped in prettier paper) became involved in the New Apostolic Reformation, replaced the cross with a Trump flag (figuratively speaking) superimposed on the American flag, and away they went. The last time I listened in, common New Age practices were introduced to teach the kids and adults how to " hear God's voice." Literally conjuring "Jesus." I was called a Marxist and baby killer before I left. I am neither. So much for putting political differences aside ( which I did until I couldn't) around the common faith in Jesus. Sadly, this is where many people in the church have gone. Into insanity land. Should become a new Disney ride. I have read some wonderful researched books addressing the subject. "Jesus and John Wayne," by Kristin DuMez, " The Power Worshippers," by Katherine Stewart, " Unholy," by Sarah Posner, and "The Family," and its sequel ," Undertow." One I have not yet read is " The Shadow Network," by Anne Nelson, another great resource for information on just how and why all of this took us by storm. Where it will ultimately end is frightening to contemplate. I see another, larger wave of violence coming. God help us. I wish Bishop Currie lived close enough to attend his services. I listened to this podcast today, July 2, 2023. I see it was aired eight months ago. Nothing has improved over this discussion. All we can do is educate ourselves, dig into the scriptures, and pray for deliverance. Thank you all for the deep, honest, and hopeful conversation on this program. I have listened to several" Christians Against Christian Nationalism," podcasts and am comforted that I do not walk alone in this epic battle against fascist ideologies parading as Christianity. As I stated, the ultimate Taking the Lord's Name in Vain. God bless.
⁰
Thank you for this informative, frank and deeply personal post. Your lived experience is something we ALL need to understand more fully.
Jim Wallace is a Liberation Theologist which is in fact Marxism. You are right to fear Christian Nationalism just don't let it drive you into the arms of Marxists. That's how the game is played. The radical right uses the radical left to drive you into their arms and the radical left uses the radical right to drive you into theirs. I pray for discernment for you. You're going to need it.
What happened in your church is like a cancer creeping through your community, a cancer of real evil. It's sickening and horrifying.
The cancer has spread all around the globe in the uniting of Right Wing nationalism with a false Christ and a false gospel. The wheat and the tares growing side by side. So many sincere believers have been sucked into this deception. I pray their eyes to be opened and a mass exodus from delusional theology occur. This has left me feeling deep grief.
THESE MEGA CHURCHES ARE THE ABSOLUTE WORST UNDER CHRISTIANITY
Don’t conflate the two! This is two totally separate issues!
Mega Churches are MAGA Churches.
I do not consider myself to be the most religious person ever. But dang, I'd listen to the Bishop talk all day long!
Follow the money. There is a great deal of income / profit being made promoting White Christian Nationalism. Like the health care industry , the people/ organizations profiting from fight tenaciously to keep the money coming.
Christian national does not care about anyone but themselves. It's not hard to see that.
I’m an atheist, but I stand with all of you on defeating Christian nationalism. I was very inspired by this video. I will leave this thread by quoting a friend of mine whom I worked with 20 years ago. This saying stays true to me today. He said that it takes all kinds to make a world.
The bishop is on point
How? Nonsensical.
I'm not religious but very worried about the issue. It is very comforting to hear the voices of Christians that aren't a risk to me or my life I'm glad yall exist. The voice of your dangerous minority has REALLY been heard over your sane majority
The dog which barks doesn’t bite 😏
The problem is that the Church as a whole is spineless before this topic. You all
Lack the gall to actually challenge this narrative
Not all of us
@@Jeanie-r8f yes.. all of you. You pay lip service to jesus but you never profess his teaching and demand better from your ilk.
Ellen G White of the Seventh Day Adventist church over 150 years ago foretold that the ascendency of fundamentalist/ nationalist christainy would culminate in America with a mandatory Sunday day of worship.Those that don't comply would not be able to buy or sell.The recent laws in Africa making homosexuality a crime was supported by African churches and implemented wit threats of withhold funds,grants,resources by sovereign wealth funds and wall street.The silence by many churches in America about these laws is because most institutional churches are invested in these wealth funds and wall street,and the churches are afraid to make a stand because of these compromises.The Beast and False prophet has a firm grip.This power of church and state is the Mark of the Beast.
This movement is political. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They plan on gutting the government as we know it and install their like minded people. Applications are online already. Their start date is January 2025. I'm telling you I am trying to infiltrate this movement.
she was/is a false teacher as Christians never made Saturday a day that needed to be worshipped. Paul met on the first day of the week because the Jewish Christians would have been in the temple that day.
Fully agreed. From a perspective that values the contributions of moderate Christians alongside agnostic atheists, secularists, and libertarians, it's crucial to recognize the insights provided by figures like Ellen G. White. Regardless of religious belief, her warnings about the dangerous fusion of fundamentalist nationalism and state power resonate with those concerned about individual liberties. By setting aside doctrinal differences and intellectual disputes, there's an opportunity for a united front against totalitarian tendencies, whether secular or theocratic. Embracing diversity of thought and shared principles of freedom can empower us to challenge encroachments on personal autonomy and the separation of church and state.
"In the suffocating grasp of theocratic totalitarianism, the rule by religious authority extends its shadow over every facet of life. Here, religious leaders wield both temporal and spiritual power, their decrees echoing from the pulpit to the chambers of governance. Their claim of divine justification wraps the populace in chains of obedience, where dissent is not just disobedience but sacrilege against the ordained order. The laws of the land are not mere statutes but manifestations of divine will, immutable and unquestionable. Individual freedoms, once cherished, now wither beneath the weight of religious dogma, suffocated by the stagnant air of conformity. The press, once a bastion of truth, now lies shackled by censorship, its voice silenced by the iron fist of religious orthodoxy. Society itself is stratified along religious lines, with the clergy occupying the highest echelons of power, while dissenters face the fiery wrath of persecution, branded as heretics in the eyes of the faithful.
In the iron grip of secular totalitarianism, the thud of ideology reverberates louder than any church bell. Here, political dogma reigns supreme, its proponents wielding it as both a weapon and a shield, cloaking their rule in the guise of secular salvation. Legitimacy is not bestowed by divine decree but by adherence to the party line, promising a utopia achievable only through unwavering loyalty. The ruling elite, ensconced in their ivory towers, manipulate every aspect of society, bending it to their will with an iron fist. Dissent is not tolerated but swiftly crushed under the weight of state-sanctioned violence, ensuring ideological purity at any cost. Propaganda flows like a poisoned river, inundating the minds of the populace with lies and half-truths, while the watchful eye of the state surveils their every move, seeking out any hint of rebellion. And amidst this bleak landscape, the cult of personality blooms, its tendrils ensnaring the hearts and minds of the people, masking the rot beneath the facade of infallibility. In the realm of secular totalitarianism, the individual is but a cog in the grand machinery of the state, crushed beneath the heel of ideology, enslaved to the whims of the ruling elite.
In the crucible of totalitarianism, whether draped in the vestments of religious fervor or the sterile garb of political doctrine, the individual finds themselves ensnared in a suffocating embrace of ideological despotism. In the theocratic realm, the clerical class, draped in the robes of divine authority, wields both temporal and spiritual power, decreeing edicts with impunity and demanding unquestioning fealty under the guise of piety. Dissent becomes a sacrilegious act, an affront not just to earthly governance but to the heavens themselves, as the faithful are shackled by the chains of obedience, their freedoms buried beneath the dogma of orthodoxy. Meanwhile, in the secular sphere, the altar is replaced by the pulpit of political ideology, where the ruling elite, draped in the cloak of secular salvation, impose their will with an iron fist, crushing dissent underfoot in the pursuit of ideological purity. Here, the individual is but a pawn in the grand chess game of statecraft, their autonomy sacrificed at the altar of political expediency, as propaganda floods the airwaves like a toxic fog, obscuring truth and corroding the very fabric of society. In both realms, the specter of totalitarianism looms large, casting a shadow of oppression over every facet of existence, as the voices of the oppressed are drowned out by the deafening roar of tyranny."
- A.I. Christopher Hitchens on both Secular and Theocratic forms of Totalitarianism
IN SUMMARY:
Theocratic Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Religious Authority: In theocratic totalitarian regimes, religious leaders hold sway over both the spiritual and temporal realms, exerting control over governance, lawmaking, and social norms. They often claim a direct connection to divine will, which legitimizes their authority and justifies their rule.
2. Divine Justification: The regime's claim of divine endorsement serves as a powerful tool for suppressing dissent. By framing obedience to the state as obedience to a higher power, the regime fosters a sense of religious duty among the populace, making resistance tantamount to blasphemy or sacrilege.
3. Religious Laws: Legal systems are heavily influenced by religious doctrine, with laws derived from religious texts or interpretations thereof. These laws govern not only personal conduct but also societal structure, shaping everything from family life to economic practices according to religious principles.
4. Limited Individual Freedoms: In theocratic totalitarian states, individual freedoms are subordinated to religious norms and principles. Freedom of expression, association, and religion are restricted to prevent dissent and maintain religious orthodoxy, often leading to the suppression of minority beliefs and practices.
5. Censorship and Control: Media outlets are tightly regulated to ensure adherence to religious teachings and values. Books, films, and other forms of expression deemed contrary to religious doctrine are censored or banned, while dissenting voices are silenced through intimidation or imprisonment.
6. Socio-political Hierarchy: Society is stratified along religious lines, with religious leaders occupying the highest positions of authority and influence. This hierarchical structure reinforces the power of the ruling elite and perpetuates social inequalities based on religious identity.
7. Resistance is Heresy: Any form of opposition to the regime is considered not only a political threat but also a religious offense. Critics and dissidents are labeled as heretics or apostates, subjecting them to persecution, imprisonment, or even execution under the guise of defending religious purity.
Secular Totalitarianism:
1. Rule by Political Ideology: Secular totalitarian regimes derive their authority from adherence to a specific political ideology rather than religious doctrine. The ruling party or leader monopolizes power, using ideology as a means of legitimizing and consolidating control over the state and its institutions.
2. State Justification: Legitimacy is grounded in secular ideologies like communism, fascism, or nationalism, which are presented as the key to societal progress and national unity. The regime portrays itself as the vanguard of ideology, offering a vision of a utopian future achievable only through its rule.
3. Party Control: The ruling party exercises dominance over all aspects of society, from the economy to education to culture. Institutions and organizations are either co-opted by the party or brought under direct state control to ensure conformity and loyalty to the ruling ideology.
4. Strict Ideological Conformity: Citizens are expected to adhere unquestioningly to the principles and beliefs of the ruling ideology. Dissent or deviation from the party line is met with severe consequences, including imprisonment, torture, or forced labor, as the regime seeks to eradicate any challenge to its authority.
5. Propaganda and Indoctrination: Propaganda is a central tool for disseminating the ideology of the ruling party and cultivating loyalty among the populace. Education and media are heavily controlled to propagate the official narrative, while dissenting viewpoints are marginalized or suppressed through censorship and propaganda campaigns.
6. Totalitarian Surveillance: Surveillance apparatuses, including secret police and intelligence agencies, monitor citizens' activities and communications to root out dissent and maintain control. Advanced technologies are employed to track and suppress opposition movements, ensuring the regime's grip on power remains unchallenged.
7. Cult of Personality: The leader cultivates a cult of personality, presenting themselves as a charismatic and infallible figure who embodies the ideals of the regime. Portrayed as indispensable to the nation's success and well-being, the leader's image is omnipresent in propaganda, monuments, and public ceremonies, fostering a sense of loyalty and devotion among the populace.
@@bakkudeku Amen to what you say.
@MovieFandoms I agree.My church the Seventh Day Adventist also plays games with these actions.
This presentation is WISE, sane, patriotic and VERY important.
No.
/ex-Dem
@ribbrascal1065 yes. /ex republican
@@jessiek3500 No. Infinity
/exDem, anti-woke, not a Christian
Look these people are already taking applications for their new government. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. They're online already. They plan to install their new government on January 2025. They want to install a theocracy. Immediately!
I am in Ireland and i am very worried about this issue because it is manifesting itself here also. I wish more people watched this video.
Yeah I've seen it also. It's mostly the rad-trads that are doing it.
Our HOPE should always be firmly in Jesus Christ!
...and his "coming" theocracy. ? Is that what we want ? Not me.
@@gwood2002carrcomme neither. And I am a Christian.
I think the typical church today is similar to the Country Club.
Thank you so much! We are having this discussion in The UMC✝️
It may be too late. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? Well according to that manuscript it is to go into effect at the changing of the next administration. They plan on putting the government as we know it and replace the government workers with their people
I went through the application by trying to infiltrate this movement they want you to take a picture of yourself that goes with the application
Yeah! This new government is to be installed January 2025.
A conversation way overdue. The more I learn about Christian nationalism, the more I conclude that there is nothing Christian about it. The teachings of Jesus are simply absent in my opinion. This isn’t what Jesus was about. The violence being espoused is so disturbing to me. We have many ill people who are so easily influenced by this. Thank you reverend for your words. I believe in the power of love but we must all push for this.
It’s amazing how powerful brainwashing really is. 😢I’ve seen it with my own eyes over decades, amongst my fellow Christians and family and friends😢
Persecution begins when you speak up, but it must happen. I agree.✝️
Brainwashed, or they want that form of government
Exactly! Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? This is a political movement hiding behind religion. They plan on installing a theocracy starting on January 2025. Nobody's telling this part. They actually have applications online right now. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. We are not taking these people seriously.
Christian Quaker here and the WCN movement in no ways represent the values of my faith.
The wcn interpretation of the bible is just as valid as your interpretation. Every religion has been used to split people into radish and ethnic groups... it's truly the worst thing humans ever did to ourselves.
Replying to original commenter.
Episcopalian here. Same with me.
If there are 9 nazis sitting at a table and you sit down without aggressively denouncing and condemning those 9 nazis.. there are 10 nazis sitting at the table.
The separation of church and state is paramount to democracy and the corner stone of our Constitution. Without out it, there is no United States.
A constitution that is only enforced by either side when it fits in with their politics.
No it's called The state will not Endorse or medal in church business. But the true Christian will Influence the government for good.😊
Show me in the constitution where it mentions sep of Church and State? Sheep following these bad so called shepards
Separation of church and state isn't in the Constitution. That was in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Baptists.
Religión and government should not mix.
Knowing the truth can hurt. But ignoring it is ignorance.
Did you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are planning on gutting the government as we know it and installing their brand of a theocracy. They have applications online right now. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. They plan on starting this on January 2025. Even if we stop them this time they are not going away.
Jesus is the truth .
"With God all things are possible." Among other things, we must witness as if everything depended on us,but pray as if everything depended on Him. Às the Reverend would probably
say, He will hear the voice of innocent blood crying to Him
from the ground.
Bishop Curry speaks common Christ-ian sense. Need more like him
He is the reason I stopped to listen. He is always the voice of reason and common sense
That is his job and role as a bishop. So many clergyman in all religions are only concerned with personal sins, while ignoring social injustices.@@TheresaStClare
Its just "white power" people who found a way back into politics,REAL politics..like TOTAL POWER if Trump wins 2024
I believe part of the reason WCN‘s rise is the trending extreme inequality, as shrinking middle class and growing number of the under class face live’s struggle; discomtent motivates them to raise their voice.
We are living in a new Gilded Age, where the rich are getting richer! The poor and middle class are fighting amongst themselves over differences in race, culture and religion without realizing that what they all have in common is poverty, or its threat. The poor are getting poorer. The Antichrist is using this opportunity to return to power with World War 3.
It's really nice to hear Bishop Curry express things in plain truths and common sense. If God is love, we should have love in our heart - makes sense to me!
This is great. Love Bishop Curry.
What threatens is Satan. We must come to Jesus through the cross. One at a time. We are saved by grace through faith.
I am so happy and relieved that I am not alone as christian who opposes to the false rhetoric like christian nationalist 🙏
Good will prevail over evil.
I am a Christian and i still don't know exactly what Christian nationalism is .
Can you please explain some of it ?
It s white racism@@RobertStambaugh-l5r
The sad part about this argument is that the people on here do not understand the word of God. The fact that you say America wasn’t founded on Christian principles is just plain
False. What is love? Talking about love? Or telling the truth? Base your beliefs on what Christ says. Not what men say. Jesus Christ says his kingdom is not of this world
This is an informative panel discussion, but it's rather timid. Of the panelists, Amanda Tyler gets close to putting a finger directly on the problem when she says solving the problem is the responsibility of Christian churches (17:30), which suggests it originates in churches, and Dr. Samuel Perry does so again when he talks about "apocalyptic" rhetoric (49:08). Otherwise, the panelists try to tease apart Christianity and this new "ideology" for the audience while dancing around an uncomfortable truth: Christian nationalism is the threat it is now because it has supplanted Christianity to become *a new religion* for its followers. The political rally is their new tent revival. No one on that stage wants to admit this frankly because it paints religion in a bad light. It points at how easily demagogues preying on fear and selfishness can hijack people's beliefs and thinking when religion has already taught those people to - one could say indoctrinated them to - accept ideas and assertions on faith. How was it so easy for Trump to come along and convince people that "I'm the only one who can fix it"? He echoed a promise they'd heard before and learned as a central tenet of faith: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6 NIV). As much as Christian nationalism is a political ideology, it's inextricable from its religious roots and it operates religiously in its adherents' minds. Try talking them out of their positions on rational grounds, and you'll see what I mean - they don't view it as a debate, they view it as an attack.
B I N G O !!
Have you read letter to the American Church? What's happening today, happened in Germany before Hitler came to power because the church remained silent. The few who didn't payed dearly.
Kudzo we always called Devil Vine here in Texas. And wow yes can it grow, overnight it can grow like you wouldn't believe possible. Bishop Curry made such a great analogy with his statement about CN and how quickly it could grow.
Comparing Project 2025 to what happened in Venezuela with Hugo Chávez, it's like looking at a similar plan. Chávez had a strategy called the "Bolivarian purge”.
The plan was also founded in 4 pillars, as well as this alleged Project 2025:
Administrative, social, political and economical ; to where he replaced people to make sure everyone supported his way of thinking.
This pattern isn't limited to one ideology and can hide behind ideas like "Christianity" or "nationalism." The problem is when this plan becomes deeply rooted, making it really hard to stop. If we let it happen, it might be too late for our country.
The message here is simple: Put the country first, not political parties! Our strength as a nation is more important than following one person blindly. If something feels wrong, it probably is. So, let's think carefully and prioritize our country over political loyalties to protect the goodness of our nation.
The religious right would disagree with you. They always want to jesus smuggle. GOD FAMILY COUNTRY GUNS. They always want god in the mix somehow, but that's not how a healthy multicultural society works since we all have slightly varying degrees of those subjects. It should be COUNTRY, FAMILY, COMMUNITY... mix and match however you will and then plug whatever else you want after those pillars are erected.
There is a story in Buddhism when an Abbott named his successor. When asked how he did it he replied, his behavior confirmed the (Buddhist) doctrine. Like the late Lani Guinier proposed that equity policies should confirm our Constitution principles, we should support and defend individuals and policies that do and, forcefully oppose those that don't. "Woe to the man whom scandal comes, St Matthew 18:7.
Mt 18:7 "Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!" Let's get it right, if we're going to quote it
Intelligent conversation with heart. What has happened in our seminaries (especially non denominational) that has led to ignorance not education and clear thinking?
That's the problem this is a political movement hiding behind religion. At this moment no religious organization has power over them. They are ready to gut the government as we know it and install a theocracy. Their start date is January 2025. Have you read the conservatives promise project 2025? They are actually taking applications online as we speak. I'm trying to infiltrate this movement. It maybe too late 🙏🏾
someone should tell these so called Christian Nationalists that Jesus was not white and he loved all men.
You had to bring race into this huh?
Has anyone actually defined “ White Christian Nationalist” ?
I see you invited no one to argue the counterpoint. I wonder why? Is that representative of how Christians should engage in the public square? Just talk to those who agree with you?
Complete nonsense. Fear-mongering at it's best.
Thank You Lord for this discussion and these Beautiful minds.
Do these poor soul white people ever read a Bible that tells all people's the teachings of spirit God through his son Jesus Christ.
I will not bend the knee to tyranny, but will listen to the sincere
This needs to be national to the large white church I'm black and was on a side of racism in the church setting keep telling it the truth of Christ 🙏🌹🙏
Thank you❤😢
Great video! Thanks for posting ❤
Preach Bishop❤
How can a true Christian conform to this highly false doctrine and call it Christian??
I have no problem stating America is a Christian nation because America was formed using Christian principles. We should not have a state religion where all people are forced to embrace only one religion. We should not hold America as bad just because our foundation is based on Christian principles. Now bad ideologies can creep into any religious group and make that bad.
Thank you for sharing this conversation. Hearing this gives me hope.
When you talk about gays and trans and people with those life styles what passages of scriptures are you all ignoring as the truth???
There you go with your Old Testament rant again.
I for one am sick to death of being described as evil or racist simply because I am Caucasian
No one with any measure of power over you is doing that.
Do you identify yourself as WHITE. Or do you identify yourself as human who happens to be white? See the difference?
Except nearly all media.@@williamjameslehy1341
All I see is more division of the American people. Keep up the division and you will have even less.
@43:54 ff when the stuttering begins, the village of pastoral care providers in every community identifying as Christian must demonstrate with each Homo sapiens members actions in community.
Agree, agree and agree!
Where are all these white Christian nationalist located?
In the imagination of these idiots.
In every community across the country.
Mostly from the south
I've been attacked by two so far. I literally thought we were on the same team boy was I was wrong.
@ letmetranslate4249: I attended a church for 14 years that was largely apolitical. Then it merged with another larger congregation that was affiliated with Religious Right Nationalism. Things got weird fast. I spoke my concerns with some people I considered friends and the blowback was immediate. I was then viewed as the enemy, the evil progressive. I was called a Marxist, a baby killer, and by one former friend, pure evil. The friendships ended abruptly and I walked away, dismayed by the level of brainwashing these people daily as they fed on Fox Noise, and worse. The Jesus they think they are following is opposite to the real Son of God. Deception is rampant. I was grieved to see these formally kind people morph into something unrecognizable. Blessed are the poor in spirit, the meek, the merciful, those who hunger for justice, those who are persecuted for the truth. ( Paraphrased.)
All this dialogue was already hashed out during the Reformation.
Focus on separation of church & state
The Catholc Church will never ask voters to cast votes for a specific political party. However, the Church is correct in reminding voters about the doctrine and core beliefs before casting votes. Expect next year parish's bulletins to address the evil of abortion. Please support pregnant mothers in crisis and their babies before and after birth. Thank you.
This was the most informative and peaceful UA-cam selection ! I'm so used to all the arguing and debating on other channels! Thank you,!
Why didn't they have a Christian nationalist in the panel to debate them If there really is such a thing as Christian nationalism ?
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r it wasn't a debate
I still do not know what exactly is Christian nationalism .@@sandralester9706
Christianity in the American context is its own animal and its own creation.
Micah the minor prophet stated in chapter 4:4-5 "But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid. For all people will walk every one in the name of his God, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever." I think we have reached this pinnacle in our society in America.
Was made clear in 2019, this is a fight against the invisible enemy
I am an atheist. We are not trying to destroy religion, most of us were born into christian families and were raised christian. Mots of us became atheist by reading the bible from cover to cover and finding the ridiculousness of it. Pastors tell us in church to turn to this verse or that verse, not to read the whole thing. There is a reason for that. We don't care what you believe, we only care about how you treat each other.
Motto of the Confederacy: “Deo Vindice”
Meaning: “With God, our Defender” or “Under God as our Vindicator.”
Love honestly.... thank you
You are right pastor. the prejudice, hatred, arrogance , and selfishness, is not religion, it is a mindset, separate from religion!!!
Religion shouldn't be in politics. Knock it off.
Troubling for America. ❤
I love this conversation. Mobilizing Love is the key purpose of all religions, at least I would like to believe it is. We need more of this sort of conversations to educate the general public.🙏
Maybe you should all read the Hindi book called the Marabata. It basically explains how you blew up the damn garden the last time you played with atomic bombs the last time you got too greedy the last time that you believed in false gods and false prophets
Religion is not spirituality!
WCN folks are scared of Yeshua - Jesus Christ. If you don't have love God is not in you.
Again go back to the scriptures.
My only question to you all is, "What in the hell are you talking about?" I actually do know who you are and what your goal is. Shame on you.
If the word Christian wasn't used the conversation would be so different and the threat to America and our values would even be more in the conversation than Christianity itself.
Thank you for having these discussions. I’m a former Christian atheist who apparently cares more about the Christian church more than many Christian’s do. I’d stuff envelopes for you!! Thanks for the education.
Thank you for sharing this magnificent conversation. Listening to this has helped me look at race and religion in a different way.
I'm Charles and did attend mount paran, not anymore the damage was done ✅ i checked out
One of the issues I've had in discussions with my fellow Evangelicals as I argue against Christian Nationalism is that they assume I am arguing for liberal Christianity (low view of Scripture, liberal sexual ethic, specifically).
But the opposite of Christian Nationalism is not liberal Christianity, or any specific religion, it's to advocate for religious pluralism - no official state religion. Each can seek to convert the other in the public square, but the state remains neutral. Basically, the opposite of Christian Nationalism is the First Amendment.
However, too often the fight against Christian Nationalism devolves into a battle between liberal vs. conservative Christianity.
This discussion was better than many, but I think you could have done more to assure conservatives that their right to belief are not being threatened.
Also, I'd like to see more discussion about early American Baptists such as John Leland, Roger Williams and others, along with a reprint of their works (Specifically John Leland; I have his collected works but the print is very bad). Everyone wants to argue about the U.S. founding, and these are important voices which need to be read. They weren't all Puritans.
Too many people want to politicize religion. Christ was not political here to do things for people so Christian nationalism does not represent what Christ stood for
It's worth pointing out that the only people giving Conservative Christians cause to believe their right to worship is under threat, *are the Christian Nationalists.* Right wing media has spent thirty years telling conservatives over and over that their rights are constantly being eroded, and that they are surrounded by enemies on every side, who want to do them harm. Meanwhile, the rest of us are fairly content to go about our lives, and let people worship how they want.
For example, a coffee company choosing to put "Happy Holidays" on their cups doesn't mean there's a "War of Christmas"; it just means that not everyone celebrates Christmas, and rather than ignoring those non-Christian demographics (as has been done historically), that company would rather attract business from them as well as Christians. Yet, conservative media has successfully spun the supposed 'war on Christmas' into a narrative that's almost ubiquitous at this point.
IMO, the modern conservative media machine is the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity. It has left so many of them poisoned by fear and resentment for their neighbors, and enables a culture of grievance, in which the most _un_-Christian and antisocial behavior imaginable is justified by a feeling of perpetual victimhood. It then dangles a carrot in front of them, offering a taste of power and promising a return to some 'former glory' to which they are supposedly entitled, in exchange for complete, unquestioning allegiance NOT to Jesus, but to a political party, and to one man at the head of it. It's idol worship in the purest sense.
It worked out pretty well for the Republican party, but how has it benefited the Church? People leave Evangelical Churches by the thousands, every year, because in modern American culture, there is no longer any discernible distinction between Evangelical culture, and the rhetoric of the modern GOP. Every time someone like Marjorie Taylor Green, or Matt Gaetz, or Lauren Boebert, or Mike Johnson, or Kari Lake gets in front of a camera and says something ridiculous or horrifying, it reflects on the Evangelical Christian Church. Whether or not that's _fair_ is another question, but the fact remains that the people doing the most damage to the Church's reputation are the very politicians its members consistently vote for.
“Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.”- The Bible
The assumption of many people who are opposed to the idea of Christian Nationalism is that the idea is to force everyone to become a Christian, from the top down. That is not the idea. The idea of Christian Nationalism is that we, as Christians are called to evangelize the NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that America is a NATION. Nations are made of people, and people everywhere are called to repent and believe. If people do that here, we will be a Christian nation, because the people will be Christians -- therefore the representatives will be Christians, therefore the government will be Christian. Bottom up, not top down, and created by revival, sent by the Holy Spirit.
Laws are morality legislated. Which morality is being legislated now? Not Biblical morality. Shouldn't we, as Christians, long for the day when the laws of the nation reflect the values of Scripture? Of course there will be debate over how laws should be written and developed, and mistakes will be made, but if the view is always to bring every thought (even legal ones) into subjection to Christ, we will be well on on our way.
Christian Nationalism is the Great Commission being worked out -- over time, through individuals, who are committed to Christ. Other definitions are either 1) misunderstandings at best, or 2) intentionally misleading, or somewhere in between.
One last thing. When Jesus was raised, He didn't say, "Someday in heaven, I will be Lord of all people." He said, "All authority is given to Me (note the present tense) in heaven and on earth. Therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, Son, and Holy Sprit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." He is Lord NOW, not just of people in their secret heart of hearts, never touching the physical world, but of ALL things -- you, your family, your city, state, nation; your job, your dinner preparation, your sex life, your children; your yard work, your Christmas decoration, your entertainment. Perhaps it's time Christians started living like they believed Him.
You just used a lot of flowery rhetoric to get to essentially the same exact conclusion. Forcing Christian values on American citizens who do not subscribe to them is antithetical to the principles we were founded upon. Religious freedom is a fundamental right and can ONLY be adequately protected when the government remains a secular body.
There are countless theological sects within Christianity, and every one of them believes they have the one true interpretation of the Scripture. What differentiates you from them, however, is that you wish to use the power of the State to impose your own interpretation onto everyone, Christian and non-Christian alike.
Your delusions of righteousness are precisely the reason that the Church is hemorrhaging members, and will continue to do so. You are not concerned with living out the values of Jesus Christ in your own lives and communities, but of forcing your own interpretation of "Biblical values"" on the communities of others, going off on a hunt for splinters to forcibly remove, while the beam in your own eye grows ever larger.
Yours is a movement built on lust for power, control, and conformity. And it is that very mindset that has driven the abuse of Church power and authority throughout history, and has in every single case, eventually led to the revolt against and loss in relevance of the Church. Your leaders are the modern incarnation of the Pharisees, and Christianity will continue to lose relevance until you and yours are finally cast out of the temple.
@@HTClassicalEd
The man is right just keep going back to the text. as said by Jesus Christ it's self. do not get tired of going back to the text as rightened in the Bible.
Thank you for this talk... I needed to hear I am not alone in the church, as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, so I can have courage to speak up when needed and how to do it.
Three years lol, downplaying it not going to magically disappear
8:35 - ideology definition of Christian Nationalism
13:25 - massive gap between white nationalism ideology and Jesus as portrayed in Matthew 5 and 7
The threat to democracy doesnt bother me anywhere near to how much I'm appalled by the horrendous black eye that is given to Jesus Christ. God is not mocked.
Seems to me that diversity is what is threatening democracy. From the United States, to Western Europe to India it is quite evident that without a predominant ethno-cultural group setting the tone the democratic system tends toward tribalism. Within a homogenous society it is easier for politics to focus on issues of class and the national good.
Proof, there's a bigot in every bunch.
This provides me hope as my own Children, some have shied away from Christian "Title" based on Christian Nationalism's rhetoric! That is not anything like Jesus taught
One Nation Under God was added to the Pledge of Allegiance to a flag sometime around 1956 or 1957. It was also when IN GOD WE TRUST became the national motto.
*"Our hearts bring back the Light."*
Wishing you all a Wonderful Winter Solstice.
A traditional celebration dating back well over 5000 years ago where the Sun is literally rebirthed in the passageway of an ancient tomb.
"The Grand Passage Tomb." A World Heritage site. Witness the rebirth in person.
A celebration of life and renewal, peace and camaraderie with food, song, dance, drink and good cheer.
Happy Holidays.
Let the Sunshine In...
*Be Happy*
"Solstice Night by S J Tucker"
thanks.
I am Christian and brown but I do not support the rainbow brigade. Stop lumping us together ... it's extremely offensive
There's nothing wrong with being Christian no matter what color is when you want it to govern in also move other religions out of the way that is the problem. You can't have a religion be the government
Religion should never govern people. Religion is religion government is government because you research Isis you'll find how wonderful it is to have a religion government people
Good thing Jesus does, he loves us all, and warns, "judge not least ye be judged, and by the same token you use to judge others, so shall that token be used to judge you.
As a spiritual person. Who left a highly controlling, conservative Christian religion. I AM SO GLAD that the normal branches of christianity, see the difference!!!❤
Nationalism as defined by Websters dictionary is not a threat to the U.S. Republic in fact the more you love your country and its freedom the better. Those who curse it, condemn it, and attack liberty are the real threat to this nation. Not Nationalists.
Amen!🇺🇲
The solution is to bring back the enlightenment reasonings which were the foundation of our country.
And yet there was the extant virulent racism that was part and parcel of that foundation. That too needs to be reviewed.
A breath of fresh Air thanks
Where did the name white Christian nationalism come from?
Wow what a great penal,great session👍👍👍👍
God guns and America !
Listening to this video, one thought kept coming to mind. The end of days, God's word would be subversive for evil deeds.
Keanu Reeves is the epitomy of a Christian.He does not declare to be one, but practices christianity in day to day basis.Sadio Mane is a muslim but practices christianity in a big way without shouting that he is either a christian or muslim..