I just added a Linear Tube Audio preamp , which has 12db’s of gain to my already glorious sounding Decware tube amp. The difference was amazing in the first 30 seconds of listening. A richer fuller sound and bigger soundstage that I listened to for 10 hours yesterday.
I've tried the same with my UFO25, the improvement depends on the source, but the important aspect to realize is that Decware doesn't build "integrated" amplifiers, with the exception of the upcoming 300B model they're all power amplifiers with input attenuators. So logically, there's a chance they'll profit from a preamp/gain stage.
I actually have been looking the opposite way and have considered the purchase of a solid state Freya. I need more gain for my Phonomena 2+ to properly feed a Decware Zen Triode amp and match the volume of my Schiit Bifrost 2. I love the transparency of the se84ufo and wouldn’t like to add any artifacts upstream. The Freya ss has also a very competitive price.
"Most integrated amps have a direct input to the power amplifier. I've seen very few that don't have a straight line in." Well I can think of two, the PS Audio Sprout, and the PS Audio Stellar Strata. This feature was fairly common in the 70s, but is pretty rare today.
My system operates with the same philosophy but with the amp and preamp reversed. FET based preamp feeding tube amplifier and it does the job nicely and synergistically.
My current system has a World Design - previously World Audio Design - Phono 3 Valve pre-amp, in a two box setup, with a dedicated external PSU. This feeds into a World Audio Design - WAD - KLPP1 Pre-amp which had the Valve Phono stage removed, because the Phono 3 is quieter and significantly better. The KLPP1 is plugged into the 'Auxiliary' input on my 30 year-old NAD 7155 Receiver, which is a Line Level input. This setup beats the NAD Phono pre-amp into a cocked hat. Chalk and Cheese. So, if your Integrated Amp had a 'Line In' or 'Aux' input, plug the Valve Phono Pre-amp into that and enjoy the benefits of valves. Wider and Deeper Sound Stage; better separation between instruments; Voices sound like they are coming from a Living Human Being, instead of a Wind-up gramophone. And to top it all off, you get the 'Atmosphere' of the venue; whether a concert hall; a club, or a Church. Organ Music recorded in a Cathedral - I have a 1959 recording of the Notre Dame Organ in Paris - sounds really amazing, unlike a transistor amp. The thing about Valve Pre-amps, is that the circuits are simple, without all the unnecessary additional components that a transistor circuit requires. They also work in 'Class A', so you don't get any switching nasties, as you do with transistors. Please note, that World Audio Design/ World Design, are British components, so may be difficult to find in America, but you may be able to get them second-hand. I got both of mine from eBay, but that was some years ago. WAD no longer exists, but WD does. They are located in Dartmouth, Devon, UK. I assume there are makers in America which make valve kit. Word of Warning. Avoid the cheap Chinese made stuff. There are all sorts of horror stories about Electrical Safety and lack of after-sales service. Also, their valves are not like for like compatible with American, British or Russian valves. They claim 12AX7 valves are used in their amps, but they are not pin-compatible with genuine 12AX7/ECC83 valves.
The other option is to buy an integrated amp that has a tube preamp section in it. Rogue Sphinx for example. There are plenty of others I'm sure, as well
Define “better” when you say you’ve heard some FETs recently that sound better than a vacuum stage, because the conventional definition of “better” is not what most of us are looking for when we use a tube pre. We’re looking for a tube pre sound specifically, which rarely sounds authentic when imitated by other means, amplified with high gain, and played through a quality set of speakers. The nuance, imperfection, inherent reverb, and gain-dependent variation is typically lost when you try to digitally recreate the vacuum sound.
I got a strange rather impression of unreasonable gain for sounding when added preammplifier to integrated amplifier. Result gets better with added additional preamplifier before integrated and with higher driving voltage for integrated. Trying to solve it I developed an idea that as between preamp and amp there is always volume pot, so it has something common with grow of gain which lowers the load of driving preamp output stage while allow to turn pot in earlier position so it is also modifing the load into more pure resistance type . I mofidiefd my tube intergated original input for tape head, (which is now no more applicable) into linear and also replaced original volume pot 250K with equal 500K and I discovered that that "new" input is more entertaining in lower range harmonics. then other without that preamp.
@@andrewfurst5711 Just for kicks I should get a cheap nobsound preamp just to see if my class A amps sound any worse than with it than the tube preamp I currently use.
Darren may be correct. Perhaps this is the reason that Nelson Pass hordes tens of thousands of FETs that can no longer be found on the market and will continue to use the same FETs on his latest models.
I love mosfets but their tuff to get get right ! Yamaha killed the market with Their entry level mosfet integrated amps ! AS-1100/1200/2100/2200/3k/3200 . I mean the build quality is amazing also during my video review i mentioned how the midrange has that Tube bloom one of my favorite amps but 52 pounds !!! But VU meters 😃 Thanks paul
@@googoo-gjoob it's not They're (they are) entry level MOSFET....it's, Their (as in Yamaha) entry level MOSFET. I'm no English professor but it is my first language. Not that it matters, cheers 🍻
I know PS Audio gear is a superior class (which commands superior $$$) but as a budget audiophile I have to say this anyway... My Luxman LV-104u would like a word.
I just added a Linear Tube Audio preamp , which has 12db’s of gain to my already glorious sounding Decware tube amp. The difference was amazing in the first 30 seconds of listening. A richer fuller sound and bigger soundstage that I listened to for 10 hours yesterday.
I've tried the same with my UFO25, the improvement depends on the source, but the important aspect to realize is that Decware doesn't build "integrated" amplifiers, with the exception of the upcoming 300B model they're all power amplifiers with input attenuators. So logically, there's a chance they'll profit from a preamp/gain stage.
@@LeonFleisherFan my friend has a ZMA and a CSP3 with the anniversary mods. He said he heard the same improvement with that combo.
I actually have been looking the opposite way and have considered the purchase of a solid state Freya. I need more gain for my Phonomena 2+ to properly feed a Decware Zen Triode amp and match the volume of my Schiit Bifrost 2. I love the transparency of the se84ufo and wouldn’t like to add any artifacts upstream. The Freya ss has also a very competitive price.
"Most integrated amps have a direct input to the power amplifier. I've seen very few that don't have a straight line in."
Well I can think of two, the PS Audio Sprout, and the PS Audio Stellar Strata. This feature was fairly common in the 70s, but is pretty rare today.
think my old Marantz 1122dc has one.
I love those speakers on the table.
"I wonder if they found that."
Kinda like the reasonable explanation the rest of us were looking for on the PS Audio regenerator. :D
My system operates with the same philosophy but with the amp and preamp reversed. FET based preamp feeding tube amplifier and it does the job nicely and synergistically.
Mitico Paul!
My current system has a World Design - previously World Audio Design - Phono 3 Valve pre-amp, in a two box setup, with a dedicated external PSU. This feeds into a World Audio Design - WAD - KLPP1 Pre-amp which had the Valve Phono stage removed, because the Phono 3 is quieter and significantly better. The KLPP1 is plugged into the 'Auxiliary' input on my 30 year-old NAD 7155 Receiver, which is a Line Level input. This setup beats the NAD Phono pre-amp into a cocked hat. Chalk and Cheese. So, if your Integrated Amp had a 'Line In' or 'Aux' input, plug the Valve Phono Pre-amp into that and enjoy the benefits of valves. Wider and Deeper Sound Stage; better separation between instruments; Voices sound like they are coming from a Living Human Being, instead of a Wind-up gramophone. And to top it all off, you get the 'Atmosphere' of the venue; whether a concert hall; a club, or a Church. Organ Music recorded in a Cathedral - I have a 1959 recording of the Notre Dame Organ in Paris - sounds really amazing, unlike a transistor amp. The thing about Valve Pre-amps, is that the circuits are simple, without all the unnecessary additional components that a transistor circuit requires. They also work in 'Class A', so you don't get any switching nasties, as you do with transistors. Please note, that World Audio Design/ World Design, are British components, so may be difficult to find in America, but you may be able to get them second-hand. I got both of mine from eBay, but that was some years ago. WAD no longer exists, but WD does. They are located in Dartmouth, Devon, UK. I assume there are makers in America which make valve kit. Word of Warning. Avoid the cheap Chinese made stuff. There are all sorts of horror stories about Electrical Safety and lack of after-sales service. Also, their valves are not like for like compatible with American, British or Russian valves. They claim 12AX7 valves are used in their amps, but they are not pin-compatible with genuine 12AX7/ECC83 valves.
The other option is to buy an integrated amp that has a tube preamp section in it. Rogue Sphinx for example. There are plenty of others I'm sure, as well
Define “better” when you say you’ve heard some FETs recently that sound better than a vacuum stage, because the conventional definition of “better”
is not what most of us are looking for when we use a tube pre. We’re looking for a tube pre sound specifically, which rarely sounds authentic when imitated by other means, amplified with high gain, and played through a quality set of speakers. The nuance, imperfection, inherent reverb, and gain-dependent variation is typically lost when you try to digitally recreate the vacuum sound.
Matt from Connecticut is 'connecting'? Love it !
I got a strange rather impression of unreasonable gain for sounding when added preammplifier to integrated amplifier. Result gets better with added additional preamplifier before integrated and with higher driving voltage for integrated.
Trying to solve it I developed an idea that as between preamp and amp there is always volume pot, so it has something common with grow of gain which lowers the load of driving preamp output stage while allow to turn pot in earlier position so it is also modifing the load into more pure resistance type .
I mofidiefd my tube intergated original input for tape head, (which is now no more applicable) into linear and also replaced original volume pot 250K with equal 500K and I discovered that that "new" input is more entertaining in lower range harmonics. then other without that preamp.
Nelson Pass has been a FET based designer for years. I built his 2 FET buffer circuit that he has on PASS-DIY.
Did I hear a clue about the next round of new amplifiers that might use FET’s instead of vacuum tubes on the front end?😄
I wholehartedly agree. Disclamer: I love the sound vacuum tube preamps ; Not vacuum tube power amps which have impeadance matching DEVICES. Yes, OPTs
Hey Paul, what's the brandname and model of the pair of computer speakers on desk? Can you do a review on them?
I hope the person got a sub to go with them.
Those speakers are for critical listening only.😂
Get a Schiit Freya and 2 Schiit Vidars. Best "bang for buck" available.
How about the opposite: the preamp of a solid state integrated with outputs to another power amp or tube amp? Probably not a good setup?
You'd have to hear it, but on paper a solid state pre-amp with a tube power amp would be the worst of both worlds.
@@andrewfurst5711 Just for kicks I should get a cheap nobsound preamp just to see if my class A amps sound any worse than with it than the tube preamp I currently use.
This would only work if the integrated amplifier had pre out and main in jacks like an older NAD.
Most of the newer integrated amps are just power amps with input selection and volume control. That’s why connecting a preamp is not really bad idea.)
Darren may be correct. Perhaps this is the reason that Nelson Pass hordes tens of thousands of FETs that can no longer be found on the market and will continue to use the same FETs on his latest models.
Fet based circuit tht sounds better than tubes , I'd like to hear tht .
what if it goes to a digital dsp ? lets say DAC>Tubepreamp>DSP>Poweramp
For digital music, I prefer my DAC output to feed into my power amp with minimal losses.
I love mosfets but their tuff to get get right ! Yamaha killed the market with
Their entry level mosfet integrated amps ! AS-1100/1200/2100/2200/3k/3200 . I mean the build quality is amazing also during my video review i mentioned how the midrange has that
Tube bloom one of my favorite amps
but 52 pounds !!! But VU meters 😃
Thanks paul
they're
@@googoo-gjoob try again....
@@mattjones7547 , bullseye on the 1st attempt
@@googoo-gjoob it's not They're (they are) entry level MOSFET....it's, Their (as in Yamaha) entry level MOSFET. I'm no English professor but it is my first language. Not that it matters, cheers 🍻
@@googoo-gjoob no sir, swing and a miss. Confidently incorrect, but I doubt you will listen to me or your prior English teachers.
I know PS Audio gear is a superior class (which commands superior $$$) but as a budget audiophile I have to say this anyway...
My Luxman LV-104u would like a word.
i used the luxman LV 105u loved it