This video was incredibly well spoken and well researched & I appreciate you taking the time to make it & I'd also like to share my opinion as well. I was born in 1990 and Have been a colossal TMNT Fan ever since I was a rugrat and still am a Huge fan to this day. For me growing up with each series & loving each one, when people started saying the Turtles were always Black Coded I think it definitely depends on the iteration of turtles. Cause it definitely varied, Raphael came off more like an Italian New Yorker with his accent in many variations lol But also many of them from 1987 -2012 felt like an amalgam of Nerdy Surfer Party Dudes imho not somethin I'd clock as Black specifically. Just Badass Dudes anyone of any race could see themselves as. And when it got to Rise and Mutant Mayhem that was the 1st time I ever could see what they meant for those iterations. As for April The change was never an issue for me for a couple reasons Tho the main reason It was never an issue to me personally was cause of Turtles Forever explaining the multiverse way back in 2009 & it making sense they had variety. The Past Aprils I really enjoyed never went away and can always come back whenever cause of that But Also Rise April and Mutant Mayhem April are just fun characters with great writing & I love their dynamic with the turtles. Though something I do want to say on the topic of race swapping for better representation & the introduction of original characters. In my humble opinion I can see why its easier to just race swap instead of making an original character for all the reasons that were mentioned in this video however I also think at times that Originality should be encouraged. Harley Quinn was an original character not from the comics and has become insanely popular, X23 was introduced in X-men Evolution's cartoon & not the comics before becoming popular. Each TMNT series has introduced original characters for their IP and Ive found as long as you give a character time to get situated, Not just try to force them in right away, give them good writing, & give them actual cool/relatable moments. People will start to resonate with them. It can be a Sixth Ranger from Power Rangers Effect as long as its handled properly. But as it was said the former is easier to do cause they are already established. Isaac from Castlevania is one of my favorite characters & he was race swapped in the animated series from his game counterpart, so as long as its done proper I'm all for it. For me as a black man who's grown up with this series and various other series, Its nice to see everyone has a different way representation hits them. My personal fav way to feel represented is when the introduced character is given a chance to grow and show who they are, what their personality is, what their goals are, etc. And they just so happen to be black as well. One of the reasons I loved Disney's Fillmore, Spawn, 1998 Blade, & Cyborg from Teen Titans. They are doing Badass stuff and happened to be black but their main character trait/schtick isnt that they are "The Black Guy" . But Overall This is a deep topic and I loved how well you covered it. Great work! And if they ever decide to change April's race back to white again or maybe make asian like she was originally supposed to be I'd be cool with that as well just as long as the writing is handled well.
Thank you so much for your input! And yeah, it definitely is a good thing to introduce new characters to serve as positive representation, but adapting existing characters has its benefits too (I think doing both is honestly the best approach to massive franchise because there are so many different places to incorporate/adapt characters into the world)
@@torisaurskyI really can't stand when mess like this constantly and continually bubbles up from the depths of so many people who just loves to cause drama for the sake of just causing drama just because they can! I seriously don't know exactly why this society is such a nightmare to live in that we can't hardly discuss things without bashing each other day in and day out! I honestly wish that I time travel was real so that I can go back my childhood play it loop and remain there for rest of my life!
Even if you pretend there aren’t plenty of great reasons to portray April as a black woman, I’ve really never agreed with the idea that any POC version of her ‘doesn’t look like’/‘doesn’t read as’ April. Like, the only April O’Neal that’s ever failed to read as April O’Neal to me is Megan Fox in the 2014 and 2016 live action films, which has nothing to do with her race and everything to do with her writing.
@@lifeisadrag7705 Exactly! she never even does anything to make me believe she’s a competent reporter- like the video said, I’m completely on her boss’s side when April gets fired. But again I blame this more on a combination of the director and/or the writing team than I do on Fox herself, she’s suffered a lot in the film industry and I don’t want to single her out like the whole thing was her fault.
@@jabisdumb Same here honestly, I don't believe I've seen Megan Fox in anything else really, so the Micheal bay movies was honestly the worst first impression I've ever gotten.
For me (mostly Hispanic, but also black from my mothers side), I just don't like the idea of race-swapping in general, I'd rather have new characters instead of just piggybacking off of already existing characters, due to how often I've ressonated with characters that AREN'T my skin color to begin with, so it feels like empty representation. Not helped by the fact that it happens the MOST with redheads for some reason, it's become a weird media stereotype. That said: April is a case where I never really minded her being black due to her inspiration being April Fisher (and it seems like the creators had some conflicting ideas about April being depicted as black during the original run) Her iteration in Rise is honestly probably one of my favorites for example (at the very least, top 3) I just didn't like how April looked in general in the movie, but that also applied to literally EVERY human character, April comparatively looking the best, and I like how she looks in the new show, so really i just had a problem with the style/models of the movie. XD
@@bluebaron6858 Saying it's a Multiverse means you're ok with non-Euro inclusion who can have "white breaks" later in the Multiverse. This is what separates a lot of people on this topic. One side is ok with "white breaks", I and others are waiting for more consistent Multiverse inclusion for each non-Euro character because writers are pretty raycest, and rather do more flip-a-coin diversity than create/add characters who are always one of us no matter the timeline. Notice in 'Titans', 'Doom Patrol', 'Halo' live-action adaptations, they made sure none of the original non-Euro humans were good enough for the story. That is not an "oopsie". That is hate.
A huge reason why black-washing is a non-issue while white-washing is, aside from the points you made, is the fact that a lot of black characters were created with their culture in mind. Back when a lot of these characters were created, white was the "default" and black characters were often made specifically to be BLACK. Take characters like Luke Cage, Shaft, or Black Panther. Them being black is inherent to the very core of who they are. Characters like April are white simply because Eastman and Laird drew her white. Race-swapping changes literally nothing about her characterization.
"Being white is not important to the character, so it's fine". That does not make sense. Even if Euro bloodline April O'Neil delved into her Scottish bloodline, not mixed with any non-European, and had, I don't know, Celtic ancestors who battled Utroms or something, people will still say it's not important her even if it were.
@@VDOTU5 Well, that's not at all what I said. But, to your point, it really depends on how important to the character it is. Is being Scottish or Celt central to who the character is? If so, then maybe you'd have a point. Yeah, turning William Wallace into a black man would be pretty damn weird. But, does the character just have some ancestry that doesn't actually effect the character in general? Then no, it doesn't matter. Luke Cage is Luke Cage BECAUSE he's a black man from Harlem. That was one of the main points of his character. Peter Parker is white because..... well, they originally drew him white.
@@ninjapinoAs a big Luke Cage fan since the 2000s, partly due to us being of African ethnicity, he's one of many great example of why I stopped looking forward to raceswaps to help diversity. I like my non-Euro characters consistent, not, "The white version can interrupt at any time in the Multiverse 😀", happens to Aquaman, Baron Mordo, Domino, Human Torch, Kingpin, etc., I'm tired of "white breaks", like April in Fortnite. Other than them, I don't mind raceswapping He-Man or Umbrella Academy characters, even April O'Neil, etc., they were made at a time clearly open for more diversity, makes no sense that even virgin mothers of superbabies will be all Euro in a 2000s comic book. But not at the expense of new non-Euro heroes being avoided. I'm simply saying every time people say if the European ancestry of the character is not important, than handing down their name/life to a character of an alternate ancestry is fine, they never bring up the fact that if it is important, people will support swapping them anyway. Even if somebody named Frey Eriksdottir's lineage comes from a Norse society who's as shielded and to-themselves as Wakandans, and they stopped Frost Giants from invading the world, people will still say it's appropriate to replace Frey with some non-Euro ancestry. I'm not from Africa, but Wakandans look like me and my family on both parents' side. I'd give the same protective energy for them as any other society written to be as secluded. But my equality support is not normal.
I'm a Latino of Dominican parents, and I believe that representation and diversity are important. But the trait of a characters should not only be about their color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Not to forget that I myself am not a huge fan of race and gender swapping originally established characters, because it's better to create brand new characters instead of shoehorning already established ones. But let it be known that there were times that the race and gender swapping of a character did work. Why? Because they stayed true to the original character, like Kara "Starbuck" Thrace (Battlestar Galactica), Corlys Velaryon (House of the Dragon), Fenton and M'Ma Crackshell in the Duck Tales reboot, etc. Still, I am not a fan of gender and race swapping in general because it feels more tokenized than inclusive. I will get hate for saying what I said, but in the end, people just don't understand context.
I still personally disagree with your take because I don’t see the issue with gender/race-swapping (in certain contexts), but you are 100% right about as long as they’re true to a character, it matters even less. I personally think April is a great example of that (as are most examples of swapping gender/race, of course for some characters changing it doesn’t work like Burne Thompson, but I don’t think it’s problematic to do so)
@@torisaursky But that's why using April O'Neil's framework for a character of separate ancestry is bland. The above commenter says it's tokenized, but I rather use the term *boring* as April barely has much of a distinguished personality. She reacts to stuff, can kinda fight, gets caught in the middle. Euro nor Afro April barely ever says anything people love to return to. Rise's Afro April came close to an interesting personality, but she went back to Euro April's "say some things and some stuff, maybe funny" in the new adaptation, so the writers are not really trying with her. We really ought to get away from her for a bit with a new, more intriguingly written human ally, preferably a woman or girl. No need for her to be a comedian or brooding, simply more expressive.
I'm black and I hate when they race swap characters. Anyone who says race swapping a white character and making them black is not a big deal is a hypocrite because I'm 100% sure that if characters like Black Panther, Storm, Spawn, Luke Cage, Barret, were suddenly made white a lot of people would find it offensive
@@Dru2037 but yet they race swapped white characters that’s fictional but even with historical characters race like Anne Boleyn she’s white but yet in the tv series she’s black even Cleopatra she’s not black but yet in the Netflix series people claimed she’s is but the Egyptians were pissed
@@Dru2037 how is being black part of barrets identity? Also you missed the entire point of what I'm trying to say. I didn't ask if it made sense or not. Race swapping never makes sense and is offensive. When they race swap characters they end up ruining and destroying them. Now would you find it offensive if they suddenly made these characters white and kept them like that going forward.
Like Tiana being made white, Nuh uh. Being black is apart of her identity as a southern black woman In Louisiana dealing with hardships and overcoming them. Mirabel (Colombian) is specifically supposed to be set in Colombia, makes no sense for her to be white. April? Doesn’t matter. I mean, why is 2003 April a scientist? Why does mutant mayhem April ride a moped instead of drive a car? All semantics .
It's silly how you imply that April's boss being a black woman and yet still being being a jerk to April in the way that her white male boss was a jerk in the 87 series is less realistic. In my experience, in cases where a woman at a workplace starts hating and being a bitch to one of her co-workers (whether it's an underling or a peer) that co-worker is actually USUALLY another woman. Female-on-female grudge is super common in the workspace, I mean come on be real now....
@@thevioletskull8158 Yes. She says that Whoopie Goldbergs rendition of Aprils boss make less sense to be a jerk to April than the previous white male boss.
That’s fair! But honestly it’s more about her being black than being a woman that doesn’t leave the same message. Because ‘87 Thompson is a man, he has that “authority” over April as a woman. With April being white and Thompson being black, that same power dynamic doesn’t exist because the cultural authority is flipped. At the end of the day though, Thompson being a black woman really doesn’t matter that much, I just think Thompson’s characterization as a white man has some meta commentary that I personally find more compelling
@@torisaurskyand yet … you don’t think a woman (of any colour) can be just as big of an asshole boss than the fat white guy was? Cos the Devil Wears Prada is a thing (I never actually watched the movie but I got a real “old white lady boss is a b*tch to the younger, pretty girl” vibes from the trailer at the time) 🤨🤨🤨
@LadyLeomon Nope, never said that. I just think the meta commentary of Thompson being a white man is more interesting writing, but Thompson being a black woman really doesn’t matter and I’m not upset by it or anything
You keep complaining about black characters being mutants when we're literally all here for mutant turtles. Some mutants being black is cool and makes sense demographically, it's not degrading. Like if I was in TMNT I wouldn't want to be some generic faultless token human hiding behind the turtles, I'd wanna be a cool mutant!! 🤨🙄
They could have used three black characters instead of April. Val appearance in Chameleons are Forever comics 1993 by Stephen Murphy Kenya Leavitt appearance in It Takes Guts... comics 1993 by Bob Fingerman Linda appearance in The Ghost of 13 Mile Island! 1992 by Steve Sullivan You're Fired! comics 1993 by Stephen Murphy
I feel that those who complain about black April grew up with the 80s white April and had her as their first romantic crush and seeing modern black April ruined their image of her as a sex symbol. if she was still an adult and black, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but having her a teenager and black is the issue with them.
Im personally tired of teenage April and Casey. I wish theyre adults again in the new cartoons. I dont really care if Aprils White, black, or asian as long as shes a good character.
@@johnreel0161 That's fair imo. I think it works for the newer iterations since they want to cater to younger teenagers and kids below that age. But I do personally miss them being adults again and the turtles being older teens. It kinda prevents the weird romance between April and any of the turtles.
That's the exact reason why 80 April is my least favorite, all because my first impression of her is sex appeal. Her design is also boring in my opinion compared to other versions of it, but that's just my opinion. All I've seen about 80 April is how sexy and attractive she is to many, but when I ask what her personality is and her importance in the story I don't get many answers. I don't care if she's sexy, I just want a decent character! That's why Eise April is my favorite, because she's fun, funny and her dynamic with the turtles is really good! I love seeing her hanging out with them as if she were part of the group! She herself becomes part of their family, even being accepted as a Hamato! As much as April is a good and interesting character, her race won't affect me. And honestly, the more representation the better!
@@laraprisma6381 the character designers who made 80s April based her looks off of Fugiko from Lupin the Third. and you can clearly see that with the hair and body suit.
I feel like a lot of the times when races are swapped it comes off as empty representation to a lot of people thanks to big heads hammering it in. It can feel less like 'We have a reason to change this' and more so 'We've checked this off our list because our boss told us to do this.' People can absolutely get behind changing a character if there's a reason for it but like with the live action mermaid, there's no real story reason for Ariel to be black. It doesn't play into the story itself. So for many people it comes off as Disney just making her that way for the headliners and press rather than actually thinking about the character and how this change could be utilized.
I honestly don’t mind a black April. I do mind April being a teen though, I feel like April should be a full grown adult, primarily because it helps the Turtles have a human guide who’s a full grown adult and knows the ways. Having a teen who’s mature for her age has been done to death. So I say keep April black but make her an adult next time. That’s how you do it!
3 questions 1. What’s wrong with the human designs in the TMNT short ? 2. I did technically name a black female protagonist that being Princess Tiana and I did consider naming Princess Jasmine as well. Would you count them as black female protagonist ? 3. What did you think of the human designs in the end of the other TMNT short where they were piloting turtle robots ?
I guess I might explain why Stockman was whitewashed in 87 series: he's the only villian who's bossed around the most by Shredder, Bebop doesn't get that much of disrespect and torture as him, and he's a mutant as you pointed out. Besides, I don't think having a black character pressured by white man was appropriate for the 80's, especially when it came to kids cartoons and movies
@@ashesGeek Apparently, Stockman's redesign for TMNT 87 had its roots in a scrapped plan to turn him into an ally for the turtles after Shredder betrayed him. So they gave him more of an Emmett Brown "friendly mad scientist" look. Makes me imagine a timeline where they both stuck with the ally plan and also kept him black.
Ok so I’m black (idk if that helps at all) I do think some of the black people in Tmnts could have been treated a little better or give different places in the story lines I’m not saying they were treated horribly. But since I was little I’ve always been curious why they changed Aprils (specifically ) skin tone it was always a bit odd to me. But as far as I’ve known her skin color didn’t change until Nickelodeon got to her and rotTmnT is awesome in my👏🏾opinion👏🏾, rise April is the best black rep, she is spunky, bright and has a pretty good friendship with the turtles . But uh oh guess what came out recently, TmntMM April and as far as I’m concerned they could have done waaay better with her, but of course knowing entertainment now a days people only care about money and not the actual content or message. Thanks for talking about this topic and giving people something to think about.
As a Brazilian I think that raceswapping obscure characters that didn't have more than one version is fine. ex: Nick fury. (Almost no one cared about him in the comics before the MCU). But when that character has had several appearances (in games, comics, films, and series for decades) where they have always been shown in a certain way, I think it's wrong to do so. This only serves to show that that character is not a real representation and was changed just to fill a check box. ex: jimmy olsen. For me, it's impossible to look at Jimmy and April and see anything other than an impostor, and if you want a “non evil black character” so much why not reuse Carter? He has been collecting dust for decades (pluss he is an original black character).
Plus i feel the need to mention that TMNT is one of the few franchises that has more PCO recurring characters than white ones (most are villains i admit ok?) I also find this whole “POCs” can never be portrayed as nothin but virtuous people pretty racist. It's as if they need to be portrayed as these beacons of inspiration and representation instead of actual characters with flaws that can commit mistakes, (As if they aren't real people?).
Nick fury was white in games and shows before the MCU even shoot he was white in the punisher arcade game nothing against ultimate universe and MCU black Nick fury but to treat him as non important when he was white is sad because everywhere he appeared in he was important even in the 90s Spider-Man show
The problem kinda is more about the fact its april specifically. More often than not redheads and gingers in fiction have been specifically race swapped to be black. Jimmy Olsen in the new super man show,mj in the mcu,ariel in the live action little mermaid,and wally west in the arrow verse. Its oddly specific
22:00 Spitballing on this, but I want to say that she was probably completely based off of Eastman's ex, and when they broke up he sorta let things slide into the race being "ambiguous" til it was just defaulted to white, and the mention of her being Asian might just be a nod to that ambiguity since it would be awkward to bring up that he dumped the idea of her being black because of the breakup Even in that color panel she looked light-skinned with reddish-brown hair. She did get a perm so I assumed that her hair was just naturally straight because she was mixed-race, I just assumed that she was initially was light-skinned and over time, especially with the success of the show, she was just universally accepted as white. Like, even her name; both April" and Oneil" I've always associated with both races, and all of the Aprils I've run across were black so it just personally clicked with me that she could be either, especially with her being in NYC in the mid-80's Black or white April's fine with me, but if Asian April pops up on the scene, Eastman said it himself that she was apparently initially gonna be Asian~ so hey, don't wanna hear people on Twitter going batsht if it happens~
@@dennisbeaman958 22:32 - Guessing that she could've been mixed, dad could've been black or white similar to speculation around the actual original April being half-black/half-white
Hot Take: As a black man (dont like disclaiming race but seems relevant Ig) I dont think you have less authority on describing representation of black people in fiction..of a series based off relatable green animals, people lost the plot and focus on colour when theres only one race the human race..gods words too, agree to disagree tho if u see this, and original april was a white woman with a perm, With that being said I never finished the video but yea just shared my personal totally disagreeable thoughts..I just seen your april donny 2012 vid solid stuff 😅
@@goddessofchaos7754 Not to be rude but if you'd watched the video you would have a better sense of what the video was trying to say and make your own conclusions instead of me spoon-feeding it. All they really say in the video is that April being black and or depicted as any other race doesn't take anything away from the character. They mentioned the perm because while April was never really originally black, it appeared that the artists had different depictions of April's appearances. If you don't consider April black that's fine, this video is not trying to make you view April as a character that should always be black. It just argues that her race doesn't take away from her as a character when it comes to different iterations of the same franchise. And that's genuinely fair in my opinion. Rise April and Mutant Mayhem April legit could be white and nothing would really change about her characterization, the only thing that'd change would be that little black girls wouldn't be able to see themselves within April. Whether or not you care about that depends on the person regardless of race- but I'm not gonna lie as a black person and my personal experiences with my race I don't necessarily see the harm in that. It's not like I'm saying we can't ever have new black characters, I encourage that always and I want to see more original black characters. But to make a big deal out of April O' Neil getting a change in her race when she has had at least 5+ iterations of her being white with different unique traits is a little silly imo. No one is going to forget 87 April just because Rise April exists, and same vice versa.
@@lifeisadrag7705 firstly, i would like to say that this was a well written response 👏🏾 I didn't finish the video but have a lot to say on race swaps after seeing them come and go over the years Now, while I do understand where you're coming from, I find most race swaps to be unnecessary. If the established character's race isn't a big deal to begin with and it could be swapped with little to no difference in the story/franchise, why change said character's race in the first place if it's not a big deal? Also if April being white means black girls can't see themselves in her, what does that say about how those kids are being raised and the state of media representation? I'm a black woman and I liked April the way she was even if we weren't the same skin color. One of my favorite things about her character was seeing how her hair and outfits would be modified in each rendition along with the turtles' designs as they were all unique. I was able to relate to other characters that aren't my race and/or gender like Mulan, the Mystery Inc gang, all of the Teen Titans, The Powerpuff Girls, Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond, Max Goof, Mary Jane Watson, Peter Parker, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, the list goes on. Of course it's nice to see someone who looks like me onscreen but there's a lot to be said when it comes to black representation in media especially when I was growing up. The characters I listed above didn't put those standards on me and actually helped me grow more comfortable in myself and my interests despite my race and gender. Media has come a long way in representation, but I think it says a lot about how they're quicker to race swap characters rather than create their own or introduce established black characters to larger audiences. It sends out a message that we don't need good, original stories told with good, original characters. No, instead we get a rehashed hand-me-down passed onto us in the name of "good representation" but people will defend it bc it's what we have. I absolutely loved Static Shock and Jon Stewart Green Lantern because they were not only written well, but they were also actual characters with their own origins, interesting stories, and personalities that gained the love and respect of fans from all backgrounds. Miles Morales from the Spiderverse movies is a more recent example since he's a more fleshed out, independent character in the films. As for April, they thought the best route was to make her frumpy and unkempt (as an artist, the Mutant Mayhem concept art for her is horrible) as well as change her race. Even if this character were white, I wouldn't be able to tell it was April at first because of her design then proceed to still hate it once I figured it out. Also if a young black girl watches other TMNT content, wouldn't she be distraught that her representation isn't as appealing as her white counterpart? Was her being changed into a black character the greenlight to give her an "uglier" design? Why can't she be black AND as pretty as the white April? Some people would still complain about the race swap but I also dont think it would have been as jarring had she been designed better. If anything we'd probably see a 'Rise' in the 3bony category lmao! While her design is better in Rise compared to Mutant Mayhem, the race change still seems unnecessary. It would be like changing Spawn's race since his skin color doesn't matter. He's got no skin post-death and is in a costume most of the time. I would be upset if they changed Spawn's race and tried to pass him off as the same Al Simmons when he's clearly not. If a character is established and a swap doesn't improve them (ie Nick Fury or Princess And The Frog), leave it be. As the saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
When I first watched rise I loved their version of April! That version made her more involved and gave her a much more fun personality when she hasn’t had too much spunk since the 80s series. Before she just felt like the token girl (especially in 03 and 12) but since rise April has been a delight to see on screen!
YES YES YES thank you for being brave enough to talk about this as someone who is black and a turtle fan this has bothered me for years this argument that if April is black she doesn't look like April where the turtles themselves has never had an definitive look they constantly change from show to comics to movies to games and the turtles have been played by people of color as well why can't this applie to April it's not pushing an agenda it's being realistic new york is a very diverse city its not all white people like in the show friends we live there to and not just us all sorts of people of different and beautiful efficiencys live there to making April black is good and should be appreciated and in the grand scheme of things is still very recent there are way more versions of the character being white and no one saying anything about even though they had changes from actresses to hair tone to even ageing her down no one said anything when those things happened and correct me if I'm wrong but in 2007 April looked like she had a hint of asian heritage in her and no one had a problem but the second she has a darker skin tone and some fan will make this bull argument when someone says " she just doesn't look like April " I tell those people that there argument is already dead there is no definitive April there is no definitive turtles April is April and if you can accept all of these other versions why can't you do the same here oh wait because there raiceist that's why I'm like dude just say your raiceist and stop wasting all of our time life's to short sorry if this was long had a lot to say THANK YOU AGAIN TORI 😅
Oh oh buddy, trust me when I say that when TMNT 2012 came about, people hated that April was made into a teenager. Prior to the Nickelodeon show she was pretty consistently shown in the comics, TMNT87, and TMNT2003 as a white adult woman with reddish hair, who was either a scientist or a reporter. And if I remember correctly April in the 03 was a natural redhead because her great something great-son said he inherited it from her. Also in the 07 MOVIE she was actually voiced by a jewish woman.
@@jeise-rx8no ok thanks for clearing some of that up I'm was saying that April has already had minor changes over the years and eventually fans learned to except but I do appreciate you for your comment and clearing some things up for me
I am going to have to speak as a writer. I have created characters who I attended to be one race, but I had to change them for whatever reason. But I know if my works ever gets adapted and a character get change for whatever reason regardless of how big or small, there will be members of my audience who would be upset with the changes regardless As a fan of many properties often complain about any changes no matter of big or small. We should respect the right to complain. I can understand creators' attempts to argue that April O’Neil’s design has never been consistent because her hair wasn't red in the original comic. Her hair color wasn’t consistently red, and it was a cartoon officially listed as “auburn.” But for you to say to people, if you take issue with the race-swapped April O’Neil, that it’s a problem on them, and that means there a racist. Perhaps you should look in a mirror. We should treat people fairly and equally regardless of sex, gender, or skin colour. If this means we have to ignore protected class status, historical injustices in order to treat people like everyone else, then we should. I don’t see any difference in complaining about April O’Neil’s skin colour compared to the number of other things to complain about in the franchise. To me, it’s all the same.
Personally i dont see a single good reason to race swap a character. the only reason people give is for diversity but if they really cared about diversity they would make new diverse characters. Race swapping is just lazy.
@@Red.SkullYT What you're essentially advocating for is to keep making the same thing over and over again just to appeal to OG fans who probably don't watch cartoons as much anymore and are adults. Do the OG fans even want that when they already have the 87 cartoon? The Mirage comics? Originally the turtles didn't even have colors, keeping things entirely the same we wouldn't even have gotten the iconic colors for the turtles. What about April being black changes her in the same that making the Shredder white and or black from Asian would? Shredder is tied to Japanese culture so it makes sense for him to be Asian. In what way does April being white or black makes her April?
@Ref.SkullYT and that then again goes to my other main point; the black characters that DO exist aren’t very positive black representation. There are a few really good characters, but most of them are forgettable side characters or antagonists that tie into harmful stereotypes
hey just want to say some stuff (also i am namibian specifically baster) 1. if they waned to put cool black character called Lucinda from Mirage Studios run they can make her a friend of April or like her og version a friend of raph 2.i think the Turtles are Japanese for there fighting style or Italian because of there names also nyc has big Italian population 3.also they must just make new black characters not use race swape preestablish 4.last thing let say i take casy and make idw Oorlam it takes away a character away from the Italian community where most are representation is mafia members it takes away one of the only good italian representation 5. people have an idea of the character so if you change to much you risk people not like the new version or even the show so in my opinion it better just to with new character
There have been many interpretations of April O'Neil, and I have read that originally Peter Laird created April O'Neil to be an Asian woman. If we ever come back to this version it would be an interesting take on this character, it is a version that has not yet been seen in any animations or Live Actions but could be potential interpretation in the future. And I hope that this current era of interpretation of the character will not be an obstacle to other interpretations of the character in the future, especially since I have read and am aware of the 1984 incident where some of the readers at the time accused the TMNT comic magazines of whitewashing April O'Neil when the stories were reprinted in color.
Closed-minded, angry, overly emotional towards things that don't matter, a bit racist, sexist and I heard him on more than one live say that even underaged April needs to be sexy.
I'll be honest, during the game, my sort of brain froze up (tends to happen when on a time limit) for thinking of white female protagonists. I could only think of Kim Possible & Lizzie McGuire like I don't know why I couldn't reach for more in my mind when I know so many, I just don't do well with time limits I guess. Oddly enough, when asked for black female protagonists, I was able to list Penny Proud, Tia, Tamera, Raven (that's so Raven), Numbuh 5, & Trixie (American Dragon). I think the reason why is that besides my brain being tuned into the Disney Channel for whatever reason (seriously, mostly Disney with one Cartoon Network show, why?) when I was trying to think of white female characters, my mind kept hitting characters who aren't white & in anticipation of the second question coming up, I had an idea of characters I could think of already. Not sure if it's my brain just being silly or what but that's how it worked out for me.
Technically she wasn’t. At most her appearance was heavily based on one of the co-creators wives who was black, like she was used as a model for her or something.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Still to an extent, she was black at one point. Sure I understand the argues. "Why turn a character black when they wasnt, just make a whole new character." "It's not that serious, as long as they write the character well with no propaganda involved". Im moreso in the middle but lean closer to "stop turning existing characters black". But with this case, April was black at one point so it doesn't eeally bother me as much.
@@wijinsamaI have no problem with April being black, but to to say April was originally black is just misinformation. She was a white woman with a perm, that’s it. She was only black in a one off issue that was non canon.
Hopefuly you are fine with an opposing idea that does NOT involve hating Afro April O'Neil. I simply wish she kept her personality from the Rise iteration, she was kinda more interesting. I'm Afro-American (I have zero respect for calling us "black" due to it's roots, I hate it), been a *BIG* TMNT fan since the early-2000s. Delved into pretty much everything since then. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles NEEDS non-Euro characters whom are positive examples, written with care. No need to buy the idea that it's too late. That is basically a racist lie proven to be a lie by unique identity non-Euro characters being introduced in various franchises, comic book lines, video games, etc. after decades (if any problems, it's the writers not doing well, or technicalities halting things for reasons not related to independent diverse additions). European bloodline-April O'Neil's name/life cannot help us. What the African bloodline-April O'Neil cannot do is always be there for us. And I refuse to word it as "they turned April black". It's a new bloodline lining up with a previous bloodline's life/name. Identity convergence. Treating this convergence the same is not a problem for me. But I realize that I am not allowed to be happy to see an Afro ally to the TMNT in *each* new or continuing universe. As not even the comics' writers are allowing that. Again, it is not too late which is *SO* disrespectful of you to basically claim (sometimes, non-Euro characters are not allowed because the developers are racist. See the Titans show, Amazon Prime's Halo, Ted Biaselli's words about such to an Afro-American fan reegarding He-Man: Revelations. These convergences are partly to avoid non-Euro independence). I'm sure people think I'm a bad person for wishing Afro April had her own name (preferably one not scared of African names we were ripped away from; maybe Maggie Obuya) while still being a Redhead, and can *be in the same room as Euro April* in the comics, new cartoons, etc. as I was blocked on Twitter by a supporter of the convergence for calmly suggesting this (my tweet is still up, I was not vulgar/rude). Afro April will never be the Turtles' human ally *everywhere* the Ninja Turtles pop up. Why should I be ok wih that? I follow TMNT everywhere, so I want consistent positive non-Euro rep *everywhere.* Even in Fortnite, kids who like Afro April cannot have both in that, which would have been cool! Why not?! Nor will she be in any future iterations where Euro April *will* appear. We can never actually have both. I cannot be convinced to be content with this after so many convergences were subsequently blocked. Kingpin is Euro again (always enjoyed Michael Clarke Duncan as a Wilson Fisk, even in the MTV Spider-Man cartoon, now I wish he were Tombstone). Aquaman is Euro again (AquaMomoa is an adrenaline boost to watch, wish they established Polynesian water deity connections, but the new movies will likely have Euro Arthur, and animation has him). Domino is Euro again in Fortnite (I love seeing Blade and Storm and Shang-Chi, etc. there, so non-Euro rep in Fortnite still matters to me). Baron Mordo is Euro again in Marvel Future Revolution (mobile games count too). Jimmy Olsen is Euro again in the upcoming 'Superman & Lois' and 'Superman' (2025). Carrie Kelly is Euro again in Caped Crusader. Johnny Storm after Fan4stic (I still have my tweet up congratulating MBJ, he had potential, but I cannot have what we got from Afro Nick Fury being everywhere since Samuel brought his facesake to life. Still want Euro Nick and Afro Nick to team up). This go-and-stop-and-go rep is what I will always hate even if I enjoy a convergence.
You are not addressing the most important aspect: Attractiveness. If Rise or MM had chosen an attractive design, almost no one would be mentioning her skin color. With every reinterpretation, April becomes less attractive. Starting with a very adult design in the 1987 series to a pre-adult design in 2012. In Rise, April's hair and glasses look like they belong to an old person. And in MM, the Turtles are skinnier than April, even with their shells. It's not about her age or skin color. If you want a black April that people like, make her beautiful. It's a visual medium. It's as simple as that.
@@torisaursky No one knows what makes April a compelling character for most people. But it is a visual medium. Whether someone gives it a chance or not depends on whether they find it visually appealing or not. If you look for fictional characters with cat-eye glasses, you'll find Ms. Fowl, Ms. Finster, Roz, Miriam Pickles and so on. This type of glasses is used for old-coded characters, not for young ones. It's a weird choice.
i also feel like it doesnt really matter that they changed her race? like imo april never had a very strong character like there was never and definitive traits she had besides like being a big sister to the turtles, having redish/ orange hair and wearing yellow and being their in-site on the human world and i feel like those should be the only requirements for her character for every version 🤷♀️
Interesting video and very well made! However, I have something that you may need to know about why some people were bothered by April O’Neil’s race change, that isn’t because of racism; it feels like another modern trend where a ginger gets replaced by a POC. Leftists would question why is that a problem since gingers are white people-and that’s because while red heads are white, they get bullied a lot for their appearances. To make matters worse, discrimination and abuse against them seemed to be normalized because if you tell someone that black people are hideous, you would most likely be mentally cruxified unless if you were in places like a kkk rally. However, if you say the same thing towards gingers, not only will people not bat an eye on you and care but, they will agree and encourage that view. For the record, I’m not a red head(I’m a Hispanic man)but, I used to get bullied a lot in school for being seen as “ugly” and I know how painful and demoralizing that can do to a kid’s mental health. So, if it’s bad enough for me, I’m not sure I can 100% imagine that would be like for gingers. And I find it very hypocritical and disturbing that even people who claims to be fighting for minority rights, would also jump into that band wagon that hates on gingers. If you want to continue replacing red heads with POC-fine. However, I do believe that anybody who faces discriminations(especially violently), deserves to be protected and be shown that they deserve care as much as everybody else, especially since gingers are biggest minorities in the world(how often do you see them?). So if POC needs to be represented in media to get rid of harmful stereotypes, then so does gingers.
Funnily enough, most of the gingers I know ARE Hispanic (my relatives). It is definitely odd how many gingers are being changed, and I think it’s still important to have that diversity; however, it’s also important to note that gingers CAN be POC as well. Look at Caped Crusader’s Barbara Gordon; she’s both. And like I mentioned, my relatives are Hispanic and ginger
People just want to complain something that are recent but never look into anything early, like Velma with her terrible adult animated series; the only reason why so for the “first season” is throw in race joke by writers who don’t know how to write high school teens but so many complain about her being South Asian when they overlooked when she was Latina in a movie couple years early or when she was Asian in two TV movies over a decade. I view April as one of those characters who’s interchangeable as long as her traits remains true no matter the race, even though she has a rocky history of a couple inconsistency that the creators can’t make an agreement on those moments as a generation of fans learns that of this.
Hollywood certainly has a habit of race swapping redheads. Is fine that if it happens sometimes but is happening too often way too often. Even in animation they race swap redheads. Usually an actress like Scarlet and Famke dive their hair or wear a rig to play these redhead characters since they are not natural redheads. But now they want to get of redheads completely.
You did forget One. It was in rise of the turtles name Cassandra. But her face was always covered by her mask as a food soldier. Also was a twist that she was supposed to be Casey but they never really confirm would be Ashley Casey, Casey or Casey ancestor. We just don't know. But the only thing we know she was very intense.
Something that really brings down 2012 bebop as a source of black reputation for me is that he’s literally a Michael Jackson reference, as seen from him moonwalking and him saying “hehe”, which is stuff that Michael Jackson is famous for, and as seen with the violent and gang stereotype for bebop, also gives me the ick when using as a source of black rep (I’m not black so take this with a grain of salt, but I have seen other people bring this up)
I'm all for positive representation of certain groups in the world. But...when a studio takes a character with an already established background and changes it drastically for the sake of appealing to the masses, it just comes across as lazy. Not to mention that in Rise, April's persona felt rather loud and annoying on multiple occasions. A big example of this is when she uses her own name as a form of warrior battlecry
The black skin April was a guest artist and it wasn't Canon it was a guest doing the comic a friend of theirs and a lot of white women got that hairstyle in the past even my mom knew several women back then who did
I'm confused about the discussion of diversity when it comes to teenage mutant ninja turtles as there really is no race. So I'm unclear why making her black adds diversity. Personally I honestly do not care what race she is just confused on the argument.
As long as the characters are well written and the turtleverse remains canon I don’t really mind what color or species April is heck they could make her a boy for all I care I wouldn’t mind seeing a version where April is a boy and splinter a woman Leo and Donnie are girls and Raph and Mikey still boys (Also as a hispanic myself I actually thought you were white I’m really sorry about that)
Hey, I really enjoyed this vid! Thanks for shouting out some black creators early on. I wanted to give some thoughts on 2003 Baxter Stockman, as someone who grew up with him. I always thought he was cool, he was a villain but he had a distinct personality and his voice gave him great presence. My main weird feeling about him growing up was like DANG, they are really making him suffer :(. I've watched basically every episode of the series, and to watch him slowly lose every piece of himself, arms, eye, legs, chest, whole body, was really, tough to watch. I honestly felt a weird disconnect, in that I thought he should be MORE upset and frustrated about that happening in general. On episodes not focused on him, it's just like oh, there's the black man who's just a head, lets make a few little bits about the fact that he's just a head. Uncomfy. Insane in the membrane was great, but also was so heavy and intense and sad that it was hard to watch. I generally thought his role was cool, it is true that a lot of Black people have to endure a lot and get a lot taken away from them, but it actually felt a lot like those like Black slavery or horror movies, like 12 years a slave. I say that because I resonate with the fact that this black person is suffering, but to have such a suffering-heavy portrayal can be difficult to watch, it can reinforce this idea of Blackness being synonymous with suffering, and can lead to a narrative of suffering overshadowing the character themselves.
Something I'd like to mention about Rise April is the fact that her being black actually lends itself further to the themes of Rise. Rise uses minority coding (specifically black, queer, and neurodivergent) for the turtles to push their themes of marginalization and finding family in people like you. The creators have stated that April in rise was meant to feel like a sister and 5th member to the turtles, and the fact that April is actually black alongside being queer and neurodivergent coded really cements her place in the family. I love rise so much raaah ❤️❤️❤️
In addition to the points regarding race-swapping already addressed in the video, a large section of the people who argue "they should just create original characters" would then quickly change their tune to "why are they forcing this new character down my throat?" This happens all the time, and as a rule the arguments are never made in good faith.
The turtles have been reimagined and reinvented countless times over the decades so why not April? The turtles have had different colours and accents so again, why not April? I think April in the latest incarnation of the series is cute, quirky, smart and funny. April's a great character and Ayo Edebiri brings a lot of charm to her. I hope she's around for a while. :)
This isn't like Velma where the characters are flanderized and made unlikeable, She's still an important character that helps the Turtles whenever they can.
ok I'll be honest with you I only clicked to see what the heck this video was about and wanted to see if anyone was like me and don't give a crap either way what race has to do with the color of one's skin or where they are born or where their ancestors were born or what religion they are or even their sexual preferences are what race really is should be based on if your human, animal which includes insects, angel or demon the most recent race made by mankind are robots but there is another hidden race no one believes but I know does exists because I am a part of that race is technorganic
This video was incredibly well spoken and well researched & I appreciate you taking the time to make it & I'd also like to share my opinion as well.
I was born in 1990 and Have been a colossal TMNT Fan ever since I was a rugrat and still am a Huge fan to this day.
For me growing up with each series & loving each one, when people started saying the Turtles were always Black Coded I think it definitely depends on the iteration of turtles. Cause it definitely varied, Raphael came off more like an Italian New Yorker with his accent in many variations lol
But also many of them from
1987 -2012 felt like an amalgam of Nerdy Surfer Party Dudes imho not somethin I'd clock as Black specifically. Just Badass Dudes anyone of any race could see themselves as.
And when it got to Rise and Mutant Mayhem that was the 1st time I ever could see what they meant for those iterations.
As for April The change was never an issue for me for a couple reasons Tho the main reason It was never an issue to me personally was cause of Turtles Forever explaining the multiverse way back in 2009 & it making sense they had variety. The Past Aprils I really enjoyed never went away and can always come back whenever cause of that But Also Rise April and Mutant Mayhem April are just fun characters with great writing & I love their dynamic with the turtles.
Though something I do want to say on the topic of race swapping for better representation & the introduction of original characters.
In my humble opinion I can see why its easier to just race swap instead of making an original character for all the reasons that were mentioned in this video however I also think at times that Originality should be encouraged. Harley Quinn was an original character not from the comics and has become insanely popular, X23 was introduced in X-men Evolution's cartoon & not the comics before becoming popular. Each TMNT series has introduced original characters for their IP and Ive found as long as you give a character time to get situated, Not just try to force them in right away, give them good writing, & give them actual cool/relatable moments. People will start to resonate with them. It can be a Sixth Ranger from Power Rangers Effect as long as its handled properly. But as it was said the former is easier to do cause they are already established. Isaac from Castlevania is one of my favorite characters & he was race swapped in the animated series from his game counterpart, so as long as its done proper I'm all for it.
For me as a black man who's grown up with this series and various other series, Its nice to see everyone has a different way representation hits them.
My personal fav way to feel represented
is when the introduced character is given a chance to grow and show who they are, what their personality is, what their goals are, etc.
And they just so happen to be black as well.
One of the reasons I loved Disney's Fillmore, Spawn, 1998 Blade, & Cyborg from Teen Titans. They are doing Badass stuff and happened to be black but their main character trait/schtick isnt that they are "The Black Guy" .
But Overall This is a deep topic and I loved how well you covered it. Great work! And if they ever decide to change April's race back to white again or maybe make asian like she was originally supposed to be I'd be cool with that as well just as long as the writing is handled well.
Thank you so much for your input! And yeah, it definitely is a good thing to introduce new characters to serve as positive representation, but adapting existing characters has its benefits too (I think doing both is honestly the best approach to massive franchise because there are so many different places to incorporate/adapt characters into the world)
totally agree Jax 😊
@@torisaurskyHere we go once again with this mess!😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
@@torisaurskyI really can't stand when mess like this constantly and continually bubbles up from the depths of so many people who just loves to cause drama for the sake of just causing drama just because they can! I seriously don't know exactly why this society is such a nightmare to live in that we can't hardly discuss things without bashing each other day in and day out! I honestly wish that I time travel was real so that I can go back my childhood play it loop and remain there for rest of my life!
Even if you pretend there aren’t plenty of great reasons to portray April as a black woman, I’ve really never agreed with the idea that any POC version of her ‘doesn’t look like’/‘doesn’t read as’ April. Like, the only April O’Neal that’s ever failed to read as April O’Neal to me is Megan Fox in the 2014 and 2016 live action films, which has nothing to do with her race and everything to do with her writing.
Megan Fox irks me the most as an April because her role is just herself and not an actual character.
@@lifeisadrag7705 Exactly! she never even does anything to make me believe she’s a competent reporter- like the video said, I’m completely on her boss’s side when April gets fired. But again I blame this more on a combination of the director and/or the writing team than I do on Fox herself, she’s suffered a lot in the film industry and I don’t want to single her out like the whole thing was her fault.
RIP 2014 April, you had potanial
@@jabisdumb Same here honestly, I don't believe I've seen Megan Fox in anything else really, so the Micheal bay movies was honestly the worst first impression I've ever gotten.
I ALWAYS forget about Mrs .Megan as April!! I blame Transformers & Johna Hex
For me (mostly Hispanic, but also black from my mothers side), I just don't like the idea of race-swapping in general, I'd rather have new characters instead of just piggybacking off of already existing characters, due to how often I've ressonated with characters that AREN'T my skin color to begin with, so it feels like empty representation. Not helped by the fact that it happens the MOST with redheads for some reason, it's become a weird media stereotype.
That said: April is a case where I never really minded her being black due to her inspiration being April Fisher (and it seems like the creators had some conflicting ideas about April being depicted as black during the original run) Her iteration in Rise is honestly probably one of my favorites for example (at the very least, top 3)
I just didn't like how April looked in general in the movie, but that also applied to literally EVERY human character, April comparatively looking the best, and I like how she looks in the new show, so really i just had a problem with the style/models of the movie. XD
It's a multiverse...
Slight correction, she wasn't depicted Black, she was a white irish with a perm
@@bluebaron6858 Saying it's a Multiverse means you're ok with non-Euro inclusion who can have "white breaks" later in the Multiverse. This is what separates a lot of people on this topic. One side is ok with "white breaks", I and others are waiting for more consistent Multiverse inclusion for each non-Euro character because writers are pretty raycest, and rather do more flip-a-coin diversity than create/add characters who are always one of us no matter the timeline.
Notice in 'Titans', 'Doom Patrol', 'Halo' live-action adaptations, they made sure none of the original non-Euro humans were good enough for the story. That is not an "oopsie". That is hate.
Sir this is about TMNT... SMH
A huge reason why black-washing is a non-issue while white-washing is, aside from the points you made, is the fact that a lot of black characters were created with their culture in mind. Back when a lot of these characters were created, white was the "default" and black characters were often made specifically to be BLACK. Take characters like Luke Cage, Shaft, or Black Panther. Them being black is inherent to the very core of who they are. Characters like April are white simply because Eastman and Laird drew her white. Race-swapping changes literally nothing about her characterization.
Finally an intelligent person on the internet.
@@Chris_Thorndyke I wouldn't go that far. I just have some common sense. Which I do understand is semi-rare.
"Being white is not important to the character, so it's fine".
That does not make sense. Even if Euro bloodline April O'Neil delved into her Scottish bloodline, not mixed with any non-European, and had, I don't know, Celtic ancestors who battled Utroms or something, people will still say it's not important her even if it were.
@@VDOTU5 Well, that's not at all what I said. But, to your point, it really depends on how important to the character it is. Is being Scottish or Celt central to who the character is? If so, then maybe you'd have a point. Yeah, turning William Wallace into a black man would be pretty damn weird. But, does the character just have some ancestry that doesn't actually effect the character in general? Then no, it doesn't matter. Luke Cage is Luke Cage BECAUSE he's a black man from Harlem. That was one of the main points of his character. Peter Parker is white because..... well, they originally drew him white.
@@ninjapinoAs a big Luke Cage fan since the 2000s, partly due to us being of African ethnicity, he's one of many great example of why I stopped looking forward to raceswaps to help diversity. I like my non-Euro characters consistent, not, "The white version can interrupt at any time in the Multiverse 😀", happens to Aquaman, Baron Mordo, Domino, Human Torch, Kingpin, etc., I'm tired of "white breaks", like April in Fortnite. Other than them, I don't mind raceswapping He-Man or Umbrella Academy characters, even April O'Neil, etc., they were made at a time clearly open for more diversity, makes no sense that even virgin mothers of superbabies will be all Euro in a 2000s comic book. But not at the expense of new non-Euro heroes being avoided.
I'm simply saying every time people say if the European ancestry of the character is not important, than handing down their name/life to a character of an alternate ancestry is fine, they never bring up the fact that if it is important, people will support swapping them anyway. Even if somebody named Frey Eriksdottir's lineage comes from a Norse society who's as shielded and to-themselves as Wakandans, and they stopped Frost Giants from invading the world, people will still say it's appropriate to replace Frey with some non-Euro ancestry.
I'm not from Africa, but Wakandans look like me and my family on both parents' side. I'd give the same protective energy for them as any other society written to be as secluded. But my equality support is not normal.
I'm a Latino of Dominican parents, and I believe that representation and diversity are important. But the trait of a characters should not only be about their color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Not to forget that I myself am not a huge fan of race and gender swapping originally established characters, because it's better to create brand new characters instead of shoehorning already established ones.
But let it be known that there were times that the race and gender swapping of a character did work. Why? Because they stayed true to the original character, like Kara "Starbuck" Thrace (Battlestar Galactica), Corlys Velaryon (House of the Dragon), Fenton and M'Ma Crackshell in the Duck Tales reboot, etc.
Still, I am not a fan of gender and race swapping in general because it feels more tokenized than inclusive. I will get hate for saying what I said, but in the end, people just don't understand context.
I still personally disagree with your take because I don’t see the issue with gender/race-swapping (in certain contexts), but you are 100% right about as long as they’re true to a character, it matters even less. I personally think April is a great example of that (as are most examples of swapping gender/race, of course for some characters changing it doesn’t work like Burne Thompson, but I don’t think it’s problematic to do so)
@@torisaurskyit is problematic in some cases because it’s just plain lazy, unoriginal and insensitive (coming from a minority).
@@torisaursky But that's why using April O'Neil's framework for a character of separate ancestry is bland. The above commenter says it's tokenized, but I rather use the term *boring* as April barely has much of a distinguished personality. She reacts to stuff, can kinda fight, gets caught in the middle. Euro nor Afro April barely ever says anything people love to return to. Rise's Afro April came close to an interesting personality, but she went back to Euro April's "say some things and some stuff, maybe funny" in the new adaptation, so the writers are not really trying with her. We really ought to get away from her for a bit with a new, more intriguingly written human ally, preferably a woman or girl. No need for her to be a comedian or brooding, simply more expressive.
I'm black and I hate when they race swap characters. Anyone who says race swapping a white character and making them black is not a big deal is a hypocrite because I'm 100% sure that if characters like Black Panther, Storm, Spawn, Luke Cage, Barret, were suddenly made white a lot of people would find it offensive
Being Black is a part of those characters identity so try again.
@@Dru2037 but yet they race swapped white characters that’s fictional but even with historical characters race like Anne Boleyn she’s white but yet in the tv series she’s black even Cleopatra she’s not black but yet in the Netflix series people claimed she’s is but the Egyptians were pissed
@@Dru2037 how is being black part of barrets identity? Also you missed the entire point of what I'm trying to say.
I didn't ask if it made sense or not. Race swapping never makes sense and is offensive. When they race swap characters they end up ruining and destroying them.
Now would you find it offensive if they suddenly made these characters white and kept them like that going forward.
Like Tiana being made white, Nuh uh. Being black is apart of her identity as a southern black woman In Louisiana dealing with hardships and overcoming them. Mirabel (Colombian) is specifically supposed to be set in Colombia, makes no sense for her to be white. April? Doesn’t matter. I mean, why is 2003 April a scientist? Why does mutant mayhem April ride a moped instead of drive a car? All semantics .
This bad argument was already addressed in the video
It's silly how you imply that April's boss being a black woman and yet still being being a jerk to April in the way that her white male boss was a jerk in the 87 series is less realistic. In my experience, in cases where a woman at a workplace starts hating and being a bitch to one of her co-workers (whether it's an underling or a peer) that co-worker is actually USUALLY another woman. Female-on-female grudge is super common in the workspace, I mean come on be real now....
Did you watch the video?
@@thevioletskull8158 Yes. She says that Whoopie Goldbergs rendition of Aprils boss make less sense to be a jerk to April than the previous white male boss.
That’s fair! But honestly it’s more about her being black than being a woman that doesn’t leave the same message. Because ‘87 Thompson is a man, he has that “authority” over April as a woman. With April being white and Thompson being black, that same power dynamic doesn’t exist because the cultural authority is flipped. At the end of the day though, Thompson being a black woman really doesn’t matter that much, I just think Thompson’s characterization as a white man has some meta commentary that I personally find more compelling
@@torisaurskyand yet … you don’t think a woman (of any colour) can be just as big of an asshole boss than the fat white guy was? Cos the Devil Wears Prada is a thing (I never actually watched the movie but I got a real “old white lady boss is a b*tch to the younger, pretty girl” vibes from the trailer at the time) 🤨🤨🤨
@LadyLeomon Nope, never said that. I just think the meta commentary of Thompson being a white man is more interesting writing, but Thompson being a black woman really doesn’t matter and I’m not upset by it or anything
You keep complaining about black characters being mutants when we're literally all here for mutant turtles. Some mutants being black is cool and makes sense demographically, it's not degrading. Like if I was in TMNT I wouldn't want to be some generic faultless token human hiding behind the turtles, I'd wanna be a cool mutant!! 🤨🙄
They could have used three black characters instead of April.
Val
appearance in Chameleons are Forever comics 1993 by Stephen Murphy
Kenya Leavitt
appearance in It Takes Guts... comics 1993 by Bob Fingerman
Linda
appearance in The Ghost of 13 Mile Island! 1992 by Steve Sullivan You're Fired! comics 1993 by Stephen Murphy
I feel that those who complain about black April grew up with the 80s white April and had her as their first romantic crush and seeing modern black April ruined their image of her as a sex symbol. if she was still an adult and black, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but having her a teenager and black is the issue with them.
Im personally tired of teenage April and Casey. I wish theyre adults again in the new cartoons. I dont really care if Aprils White, black, or asian as long as shes a good character.
@@johnreel0161 That's fair imo. I think it works for the newer iterations since they want to cater to younger teenagers and kids below that age. But I do personally miss them being adults again and the turtles being older teens. It kinda prevents the weird romance between April and any of the turtles.
That's the exact reason why 80 April is my least favorite, all because my first impression of her is sex appeal. Her design is also boring in my opinion compared to other versions of it, but that's just my opinion.
All I've seen about 80 April is how sexy and attractive she is to many, but when I ask what her personality is and her importance in the story I don't get many answers.
I don't care if she's sexy, I just want a decent character! That's why Eise April is my favorite, because she's fun, funny and her dynamic with the turtles is really good! I love seeing her hanging out with them as if she were part of the group! She herself becomes part of their family, even being accepted as a Hamato!
As much as April is a good and interesting character, her race won't affect me. And honestly, the more representation the better!
@@johnreel0161same! Just gave me some good character!
@@laraprisma6381 the character designers who made 80s April based her looks off of Fugiko from Lupin the Third. and you can clearly see that with the hair and body suit.
I feel like a lot of the times when races are swapped it comes off as empty representation to a lot of people thanks to big heads hammering it in. It can feel less like 'We have a reason to change this' and more so 'We've checked this off our list because our boss told us to do this.' People can absolutely get behind changing a character if there's a reason for it but like with the live action mermaid, there's no real story reason for Ariel to be black. It doesn't play into the story itself. So for many people it comes off as Disney just making her that way for the headliners and press rather than actually thinking about the character and how this change could be utilized.
I honestly don’t mind a black April. I do mind April being a teen though, I feel like April should be a full grown adult, primarily because it helps the Turtles have a human guide who’s a full grown adult and knows the ways. Having a teen who’s mature for her age has been done to death. So I say keep April black but make her an adult next time. That’s how you do it!
I just wish they'd stop making her a teenager
cool hot red heads rule !! April from tmnt to Wendy from gravity falls Wendy 1#
3 questions
1. What’s wrong with the human designs in the TMNT short ?
2. I did technically name a black female protagonist that being Princess Tiana and I did consider naming Princess Jasmine as well. Would you count them as black female protagonist ?
3. What did you think of the human designs in the end of the other TMNT short where they were piloting turtle robots ?
I guess I might explain why Stockman was whitewashed in 87 series: he's the only villian who's bossed around the most by Shredder, Bebop doesn't get that much of disrespect and torture as him, and he's a mutant as you pointed out. Besides, I don't think having a black character pressured by white man was appropriate for the 80's, especially when it came to kids cartoons and movies
I se what you mean but Sherrder is asain but yeah
Fair, but Shredder isn’t white
ya even though it was the 80s get it
@@ashesGeek Apparently, Stockman's redesign for TMNT 87 had its roots in a scrapped plan to turn him into an ally for the turtles after Shredder betrayed him.
So they gave him more of an Emmett Brown "friendly mad scientist" look.
Makes me imagine a timeline where they both stuck with the ally plan and also kept him black.
Ok so I’m black (idk if that helps at all) I do think some of the black people in Tmnts could have been treated a little better or give different places in the story lines I’m not saying they were treated horribly. But since I was little I’ve always been curious why they changed Aprils (specifically ) skin tone it was always a bit odd to me. But as far as I’ve known her skin color didn’t change until Nickelodeon got to her and rotTmnT is awesome in my👏🏾opinion👏🏾, rise April is the best black rep, she is spunky, bright and has a pretty good friendship with the turtles . But uh oh guess what came out recently, TmntMM April and as far as I’m concerned they could have done waaay better with her, but of course knowing entertainment now a days people only care about money and not the actual content or message.
Thanks for talking about this topic and giving people something to think about.
i agree but those people care the fans & the money
I have my idea for the TmntMM movie and April & Irma
As a Brazilian I think that raceswapping obscure characters that didn't have more than one version is fine.
ex: Nick fury. (Almost no one cared about him in the comics before the MCU).
But when that character has had several appearances (in games, comics, films, and series for decades) where they have always been shown in a certain way, I think it's wrong to do so.
This only serves to show that that character is not a real representation and was changed just to fill a check box.
ex: jimmy olsen.
For me, it's impossible to look at Jimmy and April and see anything other than an impostor, and if you want a “non evil black character” so much why not reuse Carter? He has been collecting dust for decades (pluss he is an original black character).
Plus i feel the need to mention that TMNT is one of the few franchises that has more PCO recurring characters than white ones (most are villains i admit ok?)
I also find this whole “POCs” can never be portrayed as nothin but virtuous people pretty racist.
It's as if they need to be portrayed as these beacons of inspiration and representation instead of actual characters with flaws that can commit mistakes, (As if they aren't real people?).
Well said!
Nobody cares about Jimmy no matter what race you make him.
Nick fury was white in games and shows before the MCU even shoot he was white in the punisher arcade game nothing against ultimate universe and MCU black Nick fury but to treat him as non important when he was white is sad because everywhere he appeared in he was important even in the 90s Spider-Man show
The problem kinda is more about the fact its april specifically. More often than not redheads and gingers in fiction have been specifically race swapped to be black. Jimmy Olsen in the new super man show,mj in the mcu,ariel in the live action little mermaid,and wally west in the arrow verse. Its oddly specific
22:00 Spitballing on this, but I want to say that she was probably completely based off of Eastman's ex, and when they broke up he sorta let things slide into the race being "ambiguous" til it was just defaulted to white, and the mention of her being Asian might just be a nod to that ambiguity since it would be awkward to bring up that he dumped the idea of her being black because of the breakup
Even in that color panel she looked light-skinned with reddish-brown hair. She did get a perm so I assumed that her hair was just naturally straight because she was mixed-race, I just assumed that she was initially was light-skinned and over time, especially with the success of the show, she was just universally accepted as white. Like, even her name; both April" and Oneil" I've always associated with both races, and all of the Aprils I've run across were black so it just personally clicked with me that she could be either, especially with her being in NYC in the mid-80's
Black or white April's fine with me, but if Asian April pops up on the scene, Eastman said it himself that she was apparently initially gonna be Asian~ so hey, don't wanna hear people on Twitter going batsht if it happens~
Where do you get Asian from the name O'Neil that's a more Irish or Scottish name which also fits the red hair
@@dennisbeaman958 22:32 - Guessing that she could've been mixed, dad could've been black or white similar to speculation around the actual original April being half-black/half-white
Personally, I just miss her being a red head. I thought it was cool.
I like both interpretations (which is why my version of April is black and a ginger, the best of both worlds)
The 80's show in Red sky had a black charater called Conner,also Mutant mayham redeemed Bepbop and Rockstedy
I did talk about Carter in the video, and Bebop & Rocksteady aren’t human in Mutant Mayhem
Fyi I did enjoy your video. Was very good. Keep it up 👍👍
Hot Take: As a black man (dont like disclaiming race but seems relevant Ig) I dont think you have less authority on describing representation of black people in fiction..of a series based off relatable green animals, people lost the plot and focus on colour when theres only one race the human race..gods words too, agree to disagree tho if u see this, and original april was a white woman with a perm, With that being said I never finished the video but yea just shared my personal totally disagreeable thoughts..I just seen your april donny 2012 vid solid stuff 😅
They mention that thing about April having a perm in the video, so that's not what they're pointing out about April being black.
@lifeisadrag7705 what are they pointing out then? Cuz I never considered or thought of April as being black and I'm black myself
@@goddessofchaos7754 Not to be rude but if you'd watched the video you would have a better sense of what the video was trying to say and make your own conclusions instead of me spoon-feeding it. All they really say in the video is that April being black and or depicted as any other race doesn't take anything away from the character.
They mentioned the perm because while April was never really originally black, it appeared that the artists had different depictions of April's appearances. If you don't consider April black that's fine, this video is not trying to make you view April as a character that should always be black. It just argues that her race doesn't take away from her as a character when it comes to different iterations of the same franchise.
And that's genuinely fair in my opinion. Rise April and Mutant Mayhem April legit could be white and nothing would really change about her characterization, the only thing that'd change would be that little black girls wouldn't be able to see themselves within April. Whether or not you care about that depends on the person regardless of race- but I'm not gonna lie as a black person and my personal experiences with my race I don't necessarily see the harm in that.
It's not like I'm saying we can't ever have new black characters, I encourage that always and I want to see more original black characters. But to make a big deal out of April O' Neil getting a change in her race when she has had at least 5+ iterations of her being white with different unique traits is a little silly imo. No one is going to forget 87 April just because Rise April exists, and same vice versa.
@@lifeisadrag7705 firstly, i would like to say that this was a well written response 👏🏾
I didn't finish the video but have a lot to say on race swaps after seeing them come and go over the years
Now, while I do understand where you're coming from, I find most race swaps to be unnecessary. If the established character's race isn't a big deal to begin with and it could be swapped with little to no difference in the story/franchise, why change said character's race in the first place if it's not a big deal? Also if April being white means black girls can't see themselves in her, what does that say about how those kids are being raised and the state of media representation? I'm a black woman and I liked April the way she was even if we weren't the same skin color. One of my favorite things about her character was seeing how her hair and outfits would be modified in each rendition along with the turtles' designs as they were all unique. I was able to relate to other characters that aren't my race and/or gender like Mulan, the Mystery Inc gang, all of the Teen Titans, The Powerpuff Girls, Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond, Max Goof, Mary Jane Watson, Peter Parker, Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, the list goes on.
Of course it's nice to see someone who looks like me onscreen but there's a lot to be said when it comes to black representation in media especially when I was growing up. The characters I listed above didn't put those standards on me and actually helped me grow more comfortable in myself and my interests despite my race and gender. Media has come a long way in representation, but I think it says a lot about how they're quicker to race swap characters rather than create their own or introduce established black characters to larger audiences. It sends out a message that we don't need good, original stories told with good, original characters. No, instead we get a rehashed hand-me-down passed onto us in the name of "good representation" but people will defend it bc it's what we have.
I absolutely loved Static Shock and Jon Stewart Green Lantern because they were not only written well, but they were also actual characters with their own origins, interesting stories, and personalities that gained the love and respect of fans from all backgrounds. Miles Morales from the Spiderverse movies is a more recent example since he's a more fleshed out, independent character in the films. As for April, they thought the best route was to make her frumpy and unkempt (as an artist, the Mutant Mayhem concept art for her is horrible) as well as change her race. Even if this character were white, I wouldn't be able to tell it was April at first because of her design then proceed to still hate it once I figured it out. Also if a young black girl watches other TMNT content, wouldn't she be distraught that her representation isn't as appealing as her white counterpart? Was her being changed into a black character the greenlight to give her an "uglier" design? Why can't she be black AND as pretty as the white April? Some people would still complain about the race swap but I also dont think it would have been as jarring had she been designed better. If anything we'd probably see a 'Rise' in the 3bony category lmao!
While her design is better in Rise compared to Mutant Mayhem, the race change still seems unnecessary. It would be like changing Spawn's race since his skin color doesn't matter. He's got no skin post-death and is in a costume most of the time. I would be upset if they changed Spawn's race and tried to pass him off as the same Al Simmons when he's clearly not.
If a character is established and a swap doesn't improve them (ie Nick Fury or Princess And The Frog), leave it be. As the saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
When I first watched rise I loved their version of April! That version made her more involved and gave her a much more fun personality when she hasn’t had too much spunk since the 80s series. Before she just felt like the token girl (especially in 03 and 12) but since rise April has been a delight to see on screen!
YES YES YES thank you for being brave enough to talk about this as someone who is black and a turtle fan this has bothered me for years this argument that if April is black she doesn't look like April where the turtles themselves has never had an definitive look they constantly change from show to comics to movies to games and the turtles have been played by people of color as well why can't this applie to April it's not pushing an agenda it's being realistic new york is a very diverse city its not all white people like in the show friends we live there to and not just us all sorts of people of different and beautiful efficiencys live there to making April black is good and should be appreciated and in the grand scheme of things is still very recent there are way more versions of the character being white and no one saying anything about even though they had changes from actresses to hair tone to even ageing her down no one said anything when those things happened and correct me if I'm wrong but in 2007 April looked like she had a hint of asian heritage in her and no one had a problem but the second she has a darker skin tone and some fan will make this bull argument when someone says " she just doesn't look like April " I tell those people that there argument is already dead there is no definitive April there is no definitive turtles April is April and if you can accept all of these other versions why can't you do the same here oh wait because there raiceist that's why I'm like dude just say your raiceist and stop wasting all of our time life's to short sorry if this was long had a lot to say THANK YOU AGAIN TORI 😅
Oh oh buddy, trust me when I say that when TMNT 2012 came about, people hated that April was made into a teenager.
Prior to the Nickelodeon show she was pretty consistently shown in the comics, TMNT87, and TMNT2003 as a white adult woman with reddish hair, who was either a scientist or a reporter.
And if I remember correctly April in the 03 was a natural redhead because her great something great-son said he inherited it from her.
Also in the 07 MOVIE she was actually voiced by a jewish woman.
@@jeise-rx8no ok thanks for clearing some of that up I'm was saying that April has already had minor changes over the years and eventually fans learned to except but I do appreciate you for your comment and clearing some things up for me
👏👏
@@williamgalindo2899 thanks
I have my own ideas with With April & Irma. And as for the different race and gended characters I have my own idea on that Just wait and see.
I am going to have to speak as a writer. I have created characters who I attended to be one race, but I had to change them for whatever reason. But I know if my works ever gets adapted and a character get change for whatever reason regardless of how big or small, there will be members of my audience who would be upset with the changes regardless
As a fan of many properties often complain about any changes no matter of big or small. We should respect the right to complain.
I can understand creators' attempts to argue that April O’Neil’s design has never been consistent because her hair wasn't red in the original comic. Her hair color wasn’t consistently red, and it was a cartoon officially listed as “auburn.”
But for you to say to people, if you take issue with the race-swapped April O’Neil, that it’s a problem on them, and that means there a racist. Perhaps you should look in a mirror.
We should treat people fairly and equally regardless of sex, gender, or skin colour. If this means we have to ignore protected class status, historical injustices in order to treat people like everyone else, then we should. I don’t see any difference in complaining about April O’Neil’s skin colour compared to the number of other things to complain about in the franchise. To me, it’s all the same.
PREACH 🎉
Personally i dont see a single good reason to race swap a character. the only reason people give is for diversity but if they really cared about diversity they would make new diverse characters. Race swapping is just lazy.
The thing is, like I mentioned in the video, new characters don’t have that same history with the franchise that decades-old characters do
@@Red.SkullYT What you're essentially advocating for is to keep making the same thing over and over again just to appeal to OG fans who probably don't watch cartoons as much anymore and are adults. Do the OG fans even want that when they already have the 87 cartoon? The Mirage comics? Originally the turtles didn't even have colors, keeping things entirely the same we wouldn't even have gotten the iconic colors for the turtles. What about April being black changes her in the same that making the Shredder white and or black from Asian would? Shredder is tied to Japanese culture so it makes sense for him to be Asian. In what way does April being white or black makes her April?
@Ref.SkullYT and that then again goes to my other main point; the black characters that DO exist aren’t very positive black representation. There are a few really good characters, but most of them are forgettable side characters or antagonists that tie into harmful stereotypes
@Red.SkullYT I know of many black fans who have expressed it bothers them
@@torisaursky will see about that.
Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird said that if the internet had been around in 1984 they would’ve named the turtles more traditional Japanese names.
hey just want to say some stuff (also i am namibian specifically baster)
1. if they waned to put cool black character called Lucinda from Mirage Studios run they can make her a friend of April or like her og version a friend of raph
2.i think the Turtles are Japanese for there fighting style or Italian because of there names also nyc has big Italian population
3.also they must just make new black characters not use race swape preestablish
4.last thing let say i take casy and make idw Oorlam it takes away a character away from the Italian community where most are representation is mafia members it takes away one of the only good italian representation
5. people have an idea of the character so if you change to much you risk people not like the new version or even the show so in my opinion it better just to with new character
There have been many interpretations of April O'Neil, and I have read that originally Peter Laird created April O'Neil to be an Asian woman. If we ever come back to this version it would be an interesting take on this character, it is a version that has not yet been seen in any animations or Live Actions but could be potential interpretation in the future. And I hope that this current era of interpretation of the character will not be an obstacle to other interpretations of the character in the future, especially since I have read and am aware of the 1984 incident where some of the readers at the time accused the TMNT comic magazines of whitewashing April O'Neil when the stories were reprinted in color.
0:14 from what I'm familiar with of TMNT, I'd personally agree with this statement. :)
One character i felt like was missed was Turtle Titan 2, but he didn't have a major role outside of like one episode, so i get why he got skipped
I did forget about him, but that’s mostly because I’ve forgotten a LOT of Fast Forward haha
Thanks for the informative video.
Have you ever heard of the UA-camr tatoruzu and if so what are your thoughts on him?
Closed-minded, angry, overly emotional towards things that don't matter, a bit racist, sexist and I heard him on more than one live say that even underaged April needs to be sexy.
I'll be honest, during the game, my sort of brain froze up (tends to happen when on a time limit) for thinking of white female protagonists. I could only think of Kim Possible & Lizzie McGuire like I don't know why I couldn't reach for more in my mind when I know so many, I just don't do well with time limits I guess. Oddly enough, when asked for black female protagonists, I was able to list Penny Proud, Tia, Tamera, Raven (that's so Raven), Numbuh 5, & Trixie (American Dragon). I think the reason why is that besides my brain being tuned into the Disney Channel for whatever reason (seriously, mostly Disney with one Cartoon Network show, why?) when I was trying to think of white female characters, my mind kept hitting characters who aren't white & in anticipation of the second question coming up, I had an idea of characters I could think of already. Not sure if it's my brain just being silly or what but that's how it worked out for me.
April originally was black in the comics. So what are people complaining about lmao.
Yeah, in one issue during the "guest era".
Technically she wasn’t. At most her appearance was heavily based on one of the co-creators wives who was black, like she was used as a model for her or something.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Still to an extent, she was black at one point. Sure I understand the argues. "Why turn a character black when they wasnt, just make a whole new character." "It's not that serious, as long as they write the character well with no propaganda involved". Im moreso in the middle but lean closer to "stop turning existing characters black". But with this case, April was black at one point so it doesn't eeally bother me as much.
@@wijinsamaI have no problem with April being black, but to to say April was originally black is just misinformation. She was a white woman with a perm, that’s it. She was only black in a one off issue that was non canon.
Next question is why they made Baxter stockman a woman
Hopefuly you are fine with an opposing idea that does NOT involve hating Afro April O'Neil. I simply wish she kept her personality from the Rise iteration, she was kinda more interesting.
I'm Afro-American (I have zero respect for calling us "black" due to it's roots, I hate it), been a *BIG* TMNT fan since the early-2000s. Delved into pretty much everything since then. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles NEEDS non-Euro characters whom are positive examples, written with care. No need to buy the idea that it's too late. That is basically a racist lie proven to be a lie by unique identity non-Euro characters being introduced in various franchises, comic book lines, video games, etc. after decades (if any problems, it's the writers not doing well, or technicalities halting things for reasons not related to independent diverse additions).
European bloodline-April O'Neil's name/life cannot help us. What the African bloodline-April O'Neil cannot do is always be there for us. And I refuse to word it as "they turned April black". It's a new bloodline lining up with a previous bloodline's life/name. Identity convergence. Treating this convergence the same is not a problem for me. But I realize that I am not allowed to be happy to see an Afro ally to the TMNT in *each* new or continuing universe. As not even the comics' writers are allowing that. Again, it is not too late which is *SO* disrespectful of you to basically claim (sometimes, non-Euro characters are not allowed because the developers are racist. See the Titans show, Amazon Prime's Halo, Ted Biaselli's words about such to an Afro-American fan reegarding He-Man: Revelations. These convergences are partly to avoid non-Euro independence).
I'm sure people think I'm a bad person for wishing Afro April had her own name (preferably one not scared of African names we were ripped away from; maybe Maggie Obuya) while still being a Redhead, and can *be in the same room as Euro April* in the comics, new cartoons, etc. as I was blocked on Twitter by a supporter of the convergence for calmly suggesting this (my tweet is still up, I was not vulgar/rude).
Afro April will never be the Turtles' human ally *everywhere* the Ninja Turtles pop up. Why should I be ok wih that? I follow TMNT everywhere, so I want consistent positive non-Euro rep *everywhere.* Even in Fortnite, kids who like Afro April cannot have both in that, which would have been cool! Why not?! Nor will she be in any future iterations where Euro April *will* appear. We can never actually have both.
I cannot be convinced to be content with this after so many convergences were subsequently blocked. Kingpin is Euro again (always enjoyed Michael Clarke Duncan as a Wilson Fisk, even in the MTV Spider-Man cartoon, now I wish he were Tombstone). Aquaman is Euro again (AquaMomoa is an adrenaline boost to watch, wish they established Polynesian water deity connections, but the new movies will likely have Euro Arthur, and animation has him). Domino is Euro again in Fortnite (I love seeing Blade and Storm and Shang-Chi, etc. there, so non-Euro rep in Fortnite still matters to me). Baron Mordo is Euro again in Marvel Future Revolution (mobile games count too). Jimmy Olsen is Euro again in the upcoming 'Superman & Lois' and 'Superman' (2025). Carrie Kelly is Euro again in Caped Crusader. Johnny Storm after Fan4stic (I still have my tweet up congratulating MBJ, he had potential, but I cannot have what we got from Afro Nick Fury being everywhere since Samuel brought his facesake to life. Still want Euro Nick and Afro Nick to team up).
This go-and-stop-and-go rep is what I will always hate even if I enjoy a convergence.
You are not addressing the most important aspect: Attractiveness. If Rise or MM had chosen an attractive design, almost no one would be mentioning her skin color.
With every reinterpretation, April becomes less attractive. Starting with a very adult design in the 1987 series to a pre-adult design in 2012. In Rise, April's hair and glasses look like they belong to an old person. And in MM, the Turtles are skinnier than April, even with their shells. It's not about her age or skin color. If you want a black April that people like, make her beautiful. It's a visual medium. It's as simple as that.
Whether or not you personally find a character conventionally attractive is not what makes April a compelling character for most people
@@torisaursky No one knows what makes April a compelling character for most people. But it is a visual medium. Whether someone gives it a chance or not depends on whether they find it visually appealing or not.
If you look for fictional characters with cat-eye glasses, you'll find Ms. Fowl, Ms. Finster, Roz, Miriam Pickles and so on. This type of glasses is used for old-coded characters, not for young ones. It's a weird choice.
I’ll take Ginger April O’Neil for 200 Alex
i also feel like it doesnt really matter that they changed her race? like imo april never had a very strong character like there was never and definitive traits she had besides like being a big sister to the turtles, having redish/ orange hair and wearing yellow and being their in-site on the human world and i feel like those should be the only requirements for her character for every version 🤷♀️
Interesting video and very well made! However, I have something that you may need to know about why some people were bothered by April O’Neil’s race change, that isn’t because of racism; it feels like another modern trend where a ginger gets replaced by a POC.
Leftists would question why is that a problem since gingers are white people-and that’s because while red heads are white, they get bullied a lot for their appearances. To make matters worse, discrimination and abuse against them seemed to be normalized because if you tell someone that black people are hideous, you would most likely be mentally cruxified unless if you were in places like a kkk rally. However, if you say the same thing towards gingers, not only will people not bat an eye on you and care but, they will agree and encourage that view. For the record, I’m not a red head(I’m a Hispanic man)but, I used to get bullied a lot in school for being seen as “ugly” and I know how painful and demoralizing that can do to a kid’s mental health. So, if it’s bad enough for me, I’m not sure I can 100% imagine that would be like for gingers. And I find it very hypocritical and disturbing that even people who claims to be fighting for minority rights, would also jump into that band wagon that hates on gingers.
If you want to continue replacing red heads with POC-fine. However, I do believe that anybody who faces discriminations(especially violently), deserves to be protected and be shown that they deserve care as much as everybody else, especially since gingers are biggest minorities in the world(how often do you see them?). So if POC needs to be represented in media to get rid of harmful stereotypes, then so does gingers.
Funnily enough, most of the gingers I know ARE Hispanic (my relatives). It is definitely odd how many gingers are being changed, and I think it’s still important to have that diversity; however, it’s also important to note that gingers CAN be POC as well. Look at Caped Crusader’s Barbara Gordon; she’s both. And like I mentioned, my relatives are Hispanic and ginger
@@torisaursky the problem is that people think that it’s okay to bully white gingers just because they’re white and ignore the problems they face.
People just want to complain something that are recent but never look into anything early, like Velma with her terrible adult animated series; the only reason why so for the “first season” is throw in race joke by writers who don’t know how to write high school teens but so many complain about her being South Asian when they overlooked when she was Latina in a movie couple years early or when she was Asian in two TV movies over a decade.
I view April as one of those characters who’s interchangeable as long as her traits remains true no matter the race, even though she has a rocky history of a couple inconsistency that the creators can’t make an agreement on those moments as a generation of fans learns that of this.
There's was black woman in a four issue comic book tmnt called Bodycount, her name is Shakkur
Hollywood certainly has a habit of race swapping redheads. Is fine that if it happens sometimes but is happening too often way too often. Even in animation they race swap redheads. Usually an actress like Scarlet and Famke dive their hair or wear a rig to play these redhead characters since they are not natural redheads. But now they want to get of redheads completely.
You did forget One. It was in rise of the turtles name Cassandra. But her face was always covered by her mask as a food soldier. Also was a twist that she was supposed to be Casey but they never really confirm would be Ashley Casey, Casey or Casey ancestor. We just don't know. But the only thing we know she was very intense.
You made very good points, I just don't like the ginger erasure that seems to be going on.
Something that really brings down 2012 bebop as a source of black reputation for me is that he’s literally a Michael Jackson reference, as seen from him moonwalking and him saying “hehe”, which is stuff that Michael Jackson is famous for, and as seen with the violent and gang stereotype for bebop, also gives me the ick when using as a source of black rep
(I’m not black so take this with a grain of salt, but I have seen other people bring this up)
I'm all for positive representation of certain groups in the world. But...when a studio takes a character with an already established background and changes it drastically for the sake of appealing to the masses, it just comes across as lazy.
Not to mention that in Rise, April's persona felt rather loud and annoying on multiple occasions. A big example of this is when she uses her own name as a form of warrior battlecry
The black skin April was a guest artist and it wasn't Canon it was a guest doing the comic a friend of theirs and a lot of white women got that hairstyle in the past even my mom knew several women back then who did
I'm confused about the discussion of diversity when it comes to teenage mutant ninja turtles as there really is no race. So I'm unclear why making her black adds diversity. Personally I honestly do not care what race she is just confused on the argument.
I mean there are humans in the show? So naturally diversity is going to come up
april o'neal black... is kin to shaquel o'neal? because this is ** ridiculous.....
LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!
As long as the characters are well written and the turtleverse remains canon I don’t really mind what color or species April is heck they could make her a boy for all I care
I wouldn’t mind seeing a version where April is a boy and splinter a woman Leo and Donnie are girls and Raph and Mikey still boys
(Also as a hispanic myself I actually thought you were white I’m really sorry about that)
Hey, I really enjoyed this vid! Thanks for shouting out some black creators early on. I wanted to give some thoughts on 2003 Baxter Stockman, as someone who grew up with him. I always thought he was cool, he was a villain but he had a distinct personality and his voice gave him great presence. My main weird feeling about him growing up was like DANG, they are really making him suffer :(. I've watched basically every episode of the series, and to watch him slowly lose every piece of himself, arms, eye, legs, chest, whole body, was really, tough to watch. I honestly felt a weird disconnect, in that I thought he should be MORE upset and frustrated about that happening in general. On episodes not focused on him, it's just like oh, there's the black man who's just a head, lets make a few little bits about the fact that he's just a head. Uncomfy. Insane in the membrane was great, but also was so heavy and intense and sad that it was hard to watch. I generally thought his role was cool, it is true that a lot of Black people have to endure a lot and get a lot taken away from them, but it actually felt a lot like those like Black slavery or horror movies, like 12 years a slave. I say that because I resonate with the fact that this black person is suffering, but to have such a suffering-heavy portrayal can be difficult to watch, it can reinforce this idea of Blackness being synonymous with suffering, and can lead to a narrative of suffering overshadowing the character themselves.
Something I'd like to mention about Rise April is the fact that her being black actually lends itself further to the themes of Rise. Rise uses minority coding (specifically black, queer, and neurodivergent) for the turtles to push their themes of marginalization and finding family in people like you. The creators have stated that April in rise was meant to feel like a sister and 5th member to the turtles, and the fact that April is actually black alongside being queer and neurodivergent coded really cements her place in the family.
I love rise so much raaah ❤️❤️❤️
Based video
Because she's a ginger, the end?
In addition to the points regarding race-swapping already addressed in the video, a large section of the people who argue "they should just create original characters" would then quickly change their tune to "why are they forcing this new character down my throat?"
This happens all the time, and as a rule the arguments are never made in good faith.
The turtles have been reimagined and reinvented countless times over the decades so why not April? The turtles have had different colours and accents so again, why not April? I think April in the latest incarnation of the series is cute, quirky, smart and funny. April's a great character and Ayo Edebiri brings a lot of charm to her. I hope she's around for a while. :)
This isn't like Velma where the characters are flanderized and made unlikeable, She's still an important character that helps the Turtles whenever they can.
was she not black in the first comic?
I talk about that in the video
In one issue during the "guest era".
@@torisaursky I should have watch the full video before commenting 💀
@@torisaurskyshe’s a white woman with a perm
I don’t mind
ok I'll be honest with you I only clicked to see what the heck this video was about and wanted to see if anyone was like me and don't give a crap either way what race has to do with the color of one's skin or where they are born or where their ancestors were born or what religion they are or even their sexual preferences are what race really is should be based on if your human, animal which includes insects, angel or demon the most recent race made by mankind are robots but there is another hidden race no one believes but I know does exists because I am a part of that race is technorganic