Zero Time Dilemma RUINED The Zero Escape Trilogy
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2023
- Synonymous with perfection, Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors (999) and Virtue's Last Reward (VLR) were the most beloved visual novels of its generation. Together they established the Zero Escape video game series as a masterpiece. That would all change when the highly anticipated third and final game of the trilogy, Zero Time Dilemma (ZTD), came into existence.
To celebrate the 7 year anniversary of the launch of Zero Time Dilemma, join me as we explore what went wrong and how Zero Time Dilemma resulted in the heart breaking downfall of the Zero Escape series. In this video essay, I critically analyse Zero Time Dilemma's history, structure, story, characters, plot twists and ending.
From Zero Time Dilemma being the most anticipated release from its loyal fanbase to its indefinite hiatus, and then to its miraculous return, Zero Time Dilemma fought to make it into history. Unfortunately, when it did, the fanbase felt disappointed and frustrated. As a result, the unprecedented expectations and allure of the Zero Escape series quickly vanished into thin air.
On a personal note, I have loved the Zero Escape series since I first played 999 shortly after its release. I was that fan who checked the news every day after VLR's launch for any information about Zero Escape 3. When the hiatus was announced, I was absolutely gutted.
When I eventually got to play ZTD, I was incredibly disappointed and put off the series. Almost 7 years later, I thought I'd give ZTD another chance and re-play it. It was the only one of the series I've only played once (having replayed 999 and VLR at least 3 times). After I replayed ZTD, I appreciated it a bit more, but still felt the same feelings I experienced when I first played it. This was the motivation behind this video! That and I still wanted to shine some light on the fantastic Zero Escape series.
This is my first video, and I'm not expecting it to be perfect by any means. Apologies in advance for any audio issues. I'm more than happy to receive any feedback, so please feel free to leave some in the comments.
If you enjoyed this video, it would mean the world to me if you could like the video and subscribe to the channel. I also look forward to discussing the games at length in the comments!
Please check out and support the following incredible fan-made content used in this video:
- Operation Bluebird - Let's Support Zero Escape 3! by Exogenesis: • Operation Bluebird - L...
- Zero Escape: Nonagon - Fanmade Opening for the Entire Game Series by Andrew Moers: • Zero Escape: Nonagon -...
- Zero Time Dilemma - Zero's Delight (800 Sub Special) by CaptainCrisby: • Zero Time Dilemma - Ze...
List of music used:
Album: Zero Time Dilemma Original Soundtrack (Sweep Records)
- Blue Bird Lamentation ~Orchestra~
- Cuddly Ferrum
- Erstwhile Placidity
- Extreme Extrication
- Forlorn Precipitation
- Interminable Dilemma ~Alt~
- Morphogenetic Sorrow
- Nostalgic Scenery
- Perdurable Clarification
- Profound Divulgation
- Quondam Monitors
- Ruthful Confession
- Sacrificial Demise ~Alt~
- Tough Decision
- Transient Tranquillity
- Ustulate Pathos
- Zero Times
Timestamps:
00:00 01 Introduction
02:13 02 Disclaimer
02:29 03 Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors (999)
04:08 04 Virtue's Last Reward (VLR)
05:51 05 The Indefinite Hiatus
06:54 06 Zero Time Dilemma (ZTD)
07:53 07 Fragmented (& Frantic) Story
11:38 08 The Decision Game
16:06 09 Character Assassination
22:45 10 The Truth is Invisible (& Pointless)
29:50 11 Applaud, the (COMPLEX) Play is Over
35:39 12 The Unresolved
39:14 13 The History God Abandoned - Ігри
![Zero Escape [999|VLR|ZTD] Game Systems Analysis](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lW2Fy3HG9dI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Zero Escape [999|VLR|ZTD] Game Systems Analysis](/img/tr.png)
On what you said about Junpei's characterisation; Yes, it is kinda annoying and edgy and, to be frank, not fantastic writing, but it does fit perfectly well with the other games. Remember, most of the timelines in ZTD _don't lead to VLR,_ the ones that do or come close have Junpei evolve into something more recognisable. It's also totally fair for him to have an emo phase after what he went through in 999.
You make a good point. I still find his keenness on the other team’s dying so C-team can escape very out of character, but I do acknowledge he’d be in a rough place post-999.
Adding it's only 1 year in game between 999 and ZTD. He would absolutely still being dealing with the emotional and mental trauma. What I found more annoying than Junpei though was Akane's constant, "What happened to you, Junpei? What made you change?" You happened, Akane. You deeply traumatized him. He remembers multiple horrific deaths, some his own, because of you. She would have been way better had she acknowledged what she did to him, and spent the game apologizing to him rather than scolding him for understandable trauma. Felt super gaslighty, like she was trying to convince him he had no reason to be traumatized.
Spot on. It felt so unusual for her to be so incredibly naïve when she was meant to be the one of the most intelligent characters in the series. It’s almost as if she’s surprised about how much Junpei cares for her, which makes no sense after the events of 999 :/
it makes sense for him to be less optimistic, but he's basically an edgy asshole. nothing like the junpei we knew. tenmyouji is way nicer.
@@GoldScope maybe she's not as emotionally intelligent, I mean most of her character is being manipulative and creating scenarios where people can die to accomplish her goals, the same reason why Ten said in the bonus VLR ending, "This is not Akane anymore" and left the Rizome-9 without even saying goodbyes to her.
Even though I mostly agree with you on the topic of ZTD, I disagree with the character of Akane, because she always had two sides of her - one more naive and nice and the other manipulative and cold. And in 999 it's very clear with her random jokes and wholesomeness, as well as interest in random science or mystery facts
That’s a fair take. I would disagree and say she was definitely more purposely playful in 999, rather than naive (like she’s portrayed in ZTD)
The fanbase desperately trying to work together to change fate (getting a third game made), only for it to end up with unexpected negative consequences, *couldn't be MORE Zero Escape pilled!*
This gives me two main takeaways:
-We are all the *True Mastermind* of ZTD. We created the circumstances for this death game, and every timeline that comes from
-We could apply the "Motorcyclist Analogy" from VLR here: Would you rather live in a timeline where ZTD never happened? Or does ZTD have enough value and consequences IRL, to make it worth it's existence?
I'll always take ZTD over nothing. But I'll also always think about the timelines out there where they managed to get the perfect version of ZTD :(
In my opinion, Junpei is a wonderful character because you can recognize him as the same Junpei from the very first game. In 999, Junpei also deceived everyone and lie in many places, for example, the moment where everyone was going to decide which door to go through, 1, 2, or 8 (I don’t remember exactly the number) and Junpei did a little trick to go to other doors, or the moment where he declassified Ace by playing on his disease. DON'T FORGET, HE LEFT THE LOTUS AND MAKE MIND GAME WITH OTHERS TO GO DOOR 3 TO BE WITH AKANE(That bro is a such genius). In VLR, the kind good grandfather Tenmyoji could easily betray Sigma almost killing him. Junpei was a cunning bastard in all three games, but he also had his moments of heroism. In the first game, he was ready to do anything to save Akane, in the second......also......And in the third...um....I just want to say he's a good guy with the habits of a vile person. Ordinary, good person, but such scum. I feel this Junpei in ZTD is the same character that I remember in 999 and VLR because of that I love him
my favorite part is the implications of the extra logs after beating the game where they might stop mira from killing her first victim, which was akane's mom, which means completely changing everything and breaking the Timeline doesn't it?
Also uchikoshi said in an interview that he only then realized there could be an endless loop where any day of your life, your other self that's in deep shit may shift to swap places with you. The shift problem in this game is that there would be a never ending series of switching where versions of ourselves would try to get their good ending by screwing the others over and it would never end.
Yeah the “unlimited multiverse theory” the game took definitely undid a lot of the weight and importance the series had!
Mira's first victim was actually Eric's mother, not Akane's 👍🤓
@@GoldScopeagree glad I'm not the only one that thought of that
This may just be me but I feel that the disjointed storytelling was somewhat intentional. Because you're following 3 teams, instead of a single P.O.V., it feels like you're trying to gather info like the characters are until it becomes more linear at the end depending on the path. Though I do feel like the emotions and pacing are lost somewhat like you said. Good video, I really enjoyed seeing another perspective on ZTD
Thank you! I think you’re absolutely correct. The chaotic nature of the story telling definitely matches the narrative of the game. It just felt so poorly executed. But then I have no idea how you can execute story telling in that format well.
"if only ztd had a triple a budget and uchikoshi had the time to write the story as it was intended" good news! its called ai: the somnium files
I did really enjoy AI, especially the first game. Thought it did an amazing job at telling a super entertaining and interesting self-contained story. Zero Escape just hits so different though
@@GoldScope zero escape def does the twists in an infinitely cooler way (the reveal of akane in 999 and sigmas true face in vlr still fuck me up, insanely good uses of the medium they use) BUT I’m glad uchikoshi is doing something he clearly enjoys doing with backing from fans + spike chunsoft. i think the core difference that that zero escape thrived on the rug pulls, while ai (specially the final act of the first game) is more about slowly unraveling the mysteries of the game
Somnium Files was solid, but I think it had some glaring issues that kept it from being great. The weird tonal shifts, specifically the gags they would have at the beginning of every Somnium when the story was very serious felt extremely off putting. The somniums, while a really cool idea in theory (which was substantially improved in Nirvana) felt either like a case of frustrating trial and error or just very plain and uninspired. The twist of the game was really well done, playing with the established concepts of Somniums, but the villain was incredibly disappointing, especially when that type of villain had been executed and written well before in Ace.
Oh I strongly agree about the somnium gameplay mechanic. While I did enjoy it and thought it was refreshing, it doesn't begin to compare with the escape rooms from the ZE series.
I went into Somnium files expecting another Zero Escape and I was disappointed. The good parts were great, it just suffered from stereotypical anime writing and “”jokes”” (using the term extremely loosely) and awful and mostly illogical puzzles. I can’t tell you how annoying those idol-obsessed characters were, or how many conversations went like: Boss: “hmm this is exactly like those cyclops murders” Date: “oh what happened with that?” Boss: “IT DOESNT MATTER DATE STOP ASKING GOSH!!!!”. Also it tried to be like ZE with the alternate timelines but I still don’t get how messing with someone’s dreams changes the past or whatever happened, maybe they explained it but I don’t remember.
This was the only game in the trilogy where I enjoyed the locker room puzzles and dreaded the story bits 😂
Ooh this hits too close to home - some of the VLR puzzles are nightmare fuel with how clunky the controls were.
I feel the exact opposite: VLR had the best puzzles in the franchise (sans dice hell) while ZTD had the cube puzzle and the cutting wires bullshit
@@GoldScopeIf you have a bad touch screen for the 3ds you can forget about getting past Q
The one thing the game sets up perfectly with all gameplay, story, writing even production is the main slogan. "Life is unfair, don't you think?". If they rewrote the story to match that line i personally think they succeeded.
Too true! We’re lucky enough as it is to even get ZTD, so I’ll count my blessings
@@GoldScope my biggest problem that it went from visual novel to a 3d game
The first game 999 is Visual novel
Also I like it's visual
It remains me early 90 animes
I wonder why developers don't do that in second and third
I didn't play second game yet because it seems it have same problem
34:50 Actually, I would argue that the main antagonist in all the games are masterminds who at the end of the day had not unreasonable motivations for what they did.
999: Akane might have locked 9 people in a situation of life and death but that was only because she knew that would be the only way for her to survive and because the only people that would die were people that had done the same thing.
VLR: Sigma might have locked 9 people in a situation of life and death but that was only because it was needed to stop the end of humanity.
ZTD: Delta: might have locked 9 people in a situation of life and death but that was only because it was needed to stop an even worse viral outbreak.
That final piece of characterization is incidentally one of the weaker aspects of the game: not only is it thrown in in the last second leading us to question if there was any truth to it, not only is it a repeat of the previous main villains having good reasons, it also can be read as a sequel tease leaving the game not feeling like it is complete. Maybe Uchikoshi sympathizes too much with the characters that set up this whole scenario and therefore is more willing to give them some nuance?
Interesting way of looking at it. It's probably why I loved 999 and VLR so much because while Zero is meant to be an antagonist, Akane and Sigma are co-protagonist and protagonists respectively. Whereas Delta is just non-existent, as you've pointed out.
How much of the development struggles were due to the insistence on animating the whole think in 3D? I would have preferred sprites and images by miles, especially if it meant more time and resources could be spent on the damn story.
Yeah - I feel like the move to 3D animation was to make the game look more appealing to a new audience, but just came across as quite jarring when the game first released.
Been on a Zero Escape craze these past couple days so this video is great
Glad you enjoyed!
Ztd made me so upset when I played it this summer because I wanted a fitting conclusion to this series. I think that my favorite out of all of them is 999 because of how tightly written it is, but if ztd was the ending it should’ve been then who knows. Ztd is a massive conundrum to me because on one hand it has some absolutely amazing moments, but once it all comes together it shits the bed massively and kinda makes you feel like you wasted your time for being invested. Overall I hope one day uchikoshi gets to finally write and produce the zero escape 3 that he truly wanted to make
Thanks for watching and sharing! I felt the exact same. The game ends and suddenly it’s like “that’s it???”. It still hurts me to this day :(
I still think Carlos is an outstanding character. I've still yet to meet someone who dislikes him or think his writing is poor.
At the very least, Q Team is SUCH a weak link Team, and they're a third of the game.
I think VLR's protagonist twist is extremely poor as well. The idea that Sigma never looked at a reflective surface or TOUCHED HIS OWN FACE is mind-boggling. Nobody asks him why he has one eye, which is something people would very much ask about considering it's extremely strange. It requires all characters to act unnaturally to preserve the twist, unlike 999.
I love VLR but I agree, that plot twist really left me feeling uncomfortable. I can accept people not commenting on his old age (which the cast did make subtle jokes about), but the fact that no one figured to bring up his robot eye was a bit too much to believe.
@@GoldScope I know it's been like 2 months but I'd like to mention that there's ONE hint about Sigma's eye and it's when you're in the Archives with Clover and Luna, basically Sigma tries perving on Clover and Luna but the makes an excuse that he dropped a contact and then Clover says "You don't wear contacts", also my headcannon for why Sigma couldn't feel his fake eye is that his robot hands were programmed to ignore it
This is not something I picked up on my many replays, thanks for pointing it out!
@@GoldScope np 👌🏽
Considering no one questioned what alice wears (or more like what she doesn't) I'm not surprised no one questioned his robo eye
I do agree with most of this video but like, 37:47 that was the entire point of vlr. So that sigma and phi could go back TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!
It still surprised me that ZTD took the 'unlimited timeline' approach, rather than fixing VLR's timeline like I had thought.
@@GoldScope Wait didn't VLR do the same thing? I thought the many worlds interpretation was a thing in both? unless that's not what you mean
Man i genuinely loved ZTD, only critique for me is the ugly art style.
great video! for the most part i agree with everything you’ve said.
i just finished the series very recently. as in like a week ago almost. bought them when they were on sale on steam and binged it for majority of march+the first few days of april.
before playing ZTD i already vaguely knew about its ..poor reputation, mostly from my friend who was already a part of the fanbase, and so i went into it just really trying to give it the benefit of the doubt. how bad can it really be? that’s what i thought. and .. well. i certainly think that the high expectations fans had played a big part in how negatively they view the game, and that’s completely fair. but even still..for me, the thing that stood out to me the most was how much nothing i felt at the end.
it’s hard to explain. but.. with both previous games, they made me feel so intensely that finishing gave me such a strong wave of emotions. from sadness to intrigue to joy and everything in between. but i had none of that with ztd. i was hyped up in the moment, hoping they’d let me choose to shoot delta because he’d been annoying me, and then credits rolled and i was just like…… that’s it?
after learning about the circumstances around the games release, i am more grateful. the fact we got a ze3 at ALL feels like a miracle. it IS a miracle. but it doesn’t get rid of that feeling of just.. i wish we’d gotten something better. i’ve only known it for a month and yet already this is such a deeply cherished series to me, and i wish that it got a more fitting end like it deserves. because this game really felt like a massive let down compared to those before it.
all we can do now is hope there’s a billionaire zero escape fan out there who can fund a zero escape 3 remake i suppose😭
You've captured the post-completion feeling of ZTD perfectly - It really did feel like a whole bag of nothing. Regardless, it's so nice to see people still coming across the series in 2024!
I'm so happy that people are still making videos about and discussing this series. It's a total pipedream, but I'm always hoping that if the fandom stays alive, we'll get an alternate finale for the series. I was so endlessly excited for ZTD. After I played it, I felt like I had to convince myself that it was a good ending to the series because I wanted it to be so badly.
I wish one day he'll make another finale thats strictly for fans and doesn't make decisions for the sake of newcomers. I'd love a cast that's primarily characters from the first two games. I'm happy we got a third game at all but Zero Escape deserves a better ending.
Just have to hope one of us in the fanbase become a billionaire to help fund this!
I think most of the "problems" you list were intentional, for thematic reasons. But that doesn't mean it's not bad
Nice video. Always fun to hear someone explain thoughts on these games, even when I really like ZTD, ending and all.
Been a bit since I finished, but my take was Delta's perception really made the meta text the main text, and in a 999 like moment where the twist revealing itself initially comes across like "I knew" the player themselves, then its actually Akane. In VLR I think it really is the player. We see. We pick options, and to avoid a Schrödingers car type paradox "we" cannot see the ending. Head cannon Carlos could just lower the gun, and the non-player perceived post game where D team prevent the deaths is specifically why they don't get a post text. We can't see it. My thoughts anyway. Love this series!
As for me, I'm just really glad the series got its final game and tied up all the loose ends.
Even though they're on a tight budget, they were still able to craft an intricate story (this also goes for both 999 and VLR) that I haven't seen in other mystery stories.
I don't need to learn if they get to beat the bad guys after escaping the facility. They can easily beat them using their SHIFT abilities. And there won't be any puzzles or escape rooms in that kind of story either, so ofc there won't be any game there.
Idk about yall, but I was satisfied with that ending.
Sure, it could've been better, but I'm already happy with what we got.
Thanks for offering up this positive perspective. A good reminder to me to be grateful we got anything at all!
I personally think this was all budget. That's why it felt like some corners were cut, and this game only came out after a lot of requests from fan.
Yeah most likely + timing constraints.
Here's hoping that in the future we get some sort of Remake that fixes all the problems Might even overhaul the entire story, who knows. It'd be fun to compare the two versions if nothing else, especially the animation quality. I'd forgotten how off-putting it is at times in ZTD.😂
That would be the dream! A trilogy remaster for the Switch would be perfection.
Zero time dilemma has some moments that are great in a vacuum and i do like the foreshadowing and idea behind delta but the amount of asspulls they needed to get to that point like the transporter and also just how unberable Q team were made this game a massive disappointment
Yeah the alien transporter was really pushing the game’s boundaries
Great video! I've spent a long time trying to decide which part of the Q/Delta reveal I hated the most.
It has to be the fact that all of these highly intelligent people (and Eric) never seemed more suspicious of the apparently DEAF, BLIND, AND WHEELCHAIR-BOUND OLD MAN whom they met AT A TEST SITE FOR A MISSION TO MARS. Are you kidding me??
I had a very similar complaint with Raging Loop, another visual novel I overall enjoyed despite some issues. And don't get me wrong, I love the Zero Escape trilogy and am very thankful we got ZTD at all.
I've tried to rewrite the story in my head in a way that could allow Delta to remain silent and mostly ignored, without forcing the other characters to lose all logic. I wondered, what if they only believed Delta was deaf? It would still make some sense for Q-team to not speak to him, and would be more believable for the other characters to be less suspicious. I'm sure this would lead to problems I'm not thinking of, and I'd still be unsatisfied with the hidden character reveal, but this essential part of the twist just ruins my suspension of disbelief.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. I, myself, can't think of a single way for the twist to work in any way that doesn't assume the cast lost all their bran cells :(
They couldn't suspect Delta because mind control.
Funny you should mention Eric since he is the main reason I think there's no way to make that twist work. His main characteristic is that he is in over his head, easily triggered and paranoid about this situation. The notion that he would not throw away a single accusation against the strange fourth member of his group totally breaks his character.
I just finished the trilogy for the first time and while the quality drop in ZTD was noticeable, I personally think it’s still miles better than most other games in the genre. Although the puzzle rooms in this one were awful in comparison to the first two games! Great video made me think about it a lot :)
I do agree with you there. Those years really felt like the goldern era of visual novels with both the Zero Escape series and Danganronpa. I haven't found anything since them that has scratched the itch. Thank you for watching!
@@GoldScopeI know right, I want to find some game that would give me that claustrophobic and mysterious feeling of Dr1 or 999(at least VLR/ZTD have the same atmosphere as 999 while future DRs abandon it). Luckily I at least found Raging Loop 2y ago to get that feeling again for some time.
@@GoldScope If you're looking for a good story might I recommend the When They Cry (No Naku Koro Ni) series? It's a pair of VNs that I think have some of the best story and character writing. The first chapter of Higurashi When They Cry (Onikakushi) is currently free on Steam so you can play it and see if it's something you'll enjoy (It should be stated that both games in the series are purely reading text, there's no choices or any other gameplay involved.)
@@GoldScopei recommend ace attorney (a classic) and your turn to die (more similar to zero escape, but currently incomplete!)
Honestly though, lot of visual novels aren't too different from zero escape in matter of liking mind bending or reality warping things(lot of Science Adventure series like Chaos;Head and Chaos;child feature that kind of stuff, then there is Root Double for another example, basically feel like its common with stories that feature any kind of ESP), main difference between zero escape series was combining that formula with escape room puzzles and also combining it with death game aspect. Like "small group of people stuck in death game" is good formula for focused cast of characters and setup for mystery and horror without need to do slow paced beginning to setup protagonist's mundane life before things go weird as they do in some of visual novels I mentioned.
The existence of Delta is such a meaningless plot twist. "Whodunnit" stories are way more interesting when the culprit can be discovered among the cast of characters. Even 999 and VLR knew that, with Akane and Sigma being the Zero of those games respectively. But in ZTD, the kidnapper is a secret 10th person the player never meets until after the reveal. It doesn't even make sense that Delta would include himself as a participant in the Decision Game. The only thing it accomplishes is preventing Mira and Eric from figuring out that Q was Zero due to his disappearance, but they're not Shifters, so they couldn't alert the other teams even if they learned the truth. The plot twist exists solely for the player, which breaks the immersion of the narrative.
Completely agree, there's just no satisfaction in figuring out Zero's identity because there's no way to identify Zero until he's revealed. I'd take it a step further and say there was also no point in Delta including himself in the test mission. What did that achieve? On that last point though, Mira and Eric could've technically communicated to the other teams via Gab.
Zero Time Dilemma is my favorite, but i love all 3. I highly recommend watching Joseph Anderson's stream highlights on the series
ZTD was one of the biggest letdowns of all time, but damn did I have an absolute blast playing it with friends. Awful game. I loved it.
I’m glad to hear you got some enjoyment out of it!
I hated it as an ending but it was easy to get through and extremely hilarious when playing it as I had friends who already did so waiting for me to go insane from it's bullshit. It's a memorable game at least
I had a friend who played ZTD and he said he liked it then I asked “did you play the other 2 games?” He said no and I was like “oh that’s why you liked it” lmao
ZTD was where I started the Zero Escape series. It was really a wild ride and there were all these mysterious references to things that had happened, but I didn't really know who anyone was or what their deal was. From the perspective of someone who came in at the beginning I'm sure Carlos feels like an airheaded also-ran who steals the spotlight for no reason, but he does pretty well as a perspective character for someone who has no idea who any of these people are either.
The reveal that everyone is an esper and Akane taking action to break the terms of the nonlinear narrative feels good. Earned. An overturning of the sense of control and alienation that had been taken away. Like unlocking the airship in a Final Fantasy game, you're finally free. You don't know that this is the same twist that happened the previous two games, too, or that it sandbags the entire previous game (because the entire point of VLR was unlocking Sigma and Phi's ability to jump timelines).
Coming into things in the wrong order, 999 is basically perfect (at least now that you can jump between chapters), but VLR... man, I can't help but feel VLR's mouth makes a lot of promises its butt can't cash. It's a _lot_ bigger in scope than 999 and almost all of that comes in the last very exposition-heavy hour. You get a very hyped-up impression of Akane's cunning plans but prior to ZTD those relied on her holding all of the cards, either gathering information from the future or having time to set up a tightly-controlled environment or both. It makes sense that her mastermind nature was a bit of a hothouse flower - when she isn't in exactly the right environment, she has to work a lot harder to even survive.
All that said, "complex motives" is a meme for a reason, the bad guy's endgame turns out to be extremely lame (especially considering the resources at his disposal, as you say) and so does the faceless "true" bad guy. And Eric and Mira were just... intolerable characters and even coming into the series with fresh eyes I avoided their fragments as long as possible. ZTD is still a good game, but man, it has some big, big, BIG flaws.
I can't imagine what experiencing ZTD first would be like, so thanks for sharing! Glad you still managed to enjoy it despite all the references. I do agree with VLR being significantly more ambitious than 999, which is personally while I loved it and probably expected too much from ZTD.
I’d agree that the biggest problem with the game is that you’re going between relatively random fragments of story trying to piece together where they are in the story and why. I still really liked the game but it does ruin the pacing of it. Memory loss between fragments is also why most of the characters don’t typically grow at all until the end game. It makes sense but it’s also pretty anti-narrative. I can see what they were trying to do in having the game ascend beyond the linear story choices grid, but that’s also counter to what makes narratives work. A lot of endings being pointless also slowed down some parts, like when you can decide whether or not to push a button that says don’t press it. It’s funny but doesn’t add anything to the game. Still loved it and want a sequel but they’d need to go back to their roots, or make a different kind of mechanic to continue the series based on what you find out about one of the characters and what they can do at the end of the game. Didn’t see the reason for the art style change, either, if they were making both games at the same time.
It’s funny because back when I played this I actually enjoyed the game for some reason. The thing is I have no idea why
Maybe it has something to do with me being 18 so my standards for games and media was drastically different than now. But I just tried to watch someone else play it and I stopped shortly after the chainsaw ending with Akane. I started to remember how fragmented and weird the entire game felt and how it bugged me how little value most characters had there
What are each of the games called? I've only seen one
All three are mentioned in the video ;)
I'm both extremely disappointed in ZTD and refuse to accept it but on the other hand 🐌🐌
I loved it !! I had an amazing time watching this :)
the only thing I would add (which is a personal opinion) is that the actual story wasn't incomplete because lack of funding. Like, you can have a shorter game, crappier graphics and whatnot. But you can still continue with the original story, not tell everything and use a Q&A to give some closure to the audience. Uchikoshi just changed the whole story and gave us a crappy ending because he lost interest on it. And the fact that there's no Q&A proves it. He just didn't really want to put the effort anymore. Maybe this is just personal opinion but there's a point where you don't play a visual novel because of the gameplay anymore, but because of the storyline. If you've stuck to this VNs for a long time is because you love the story and the characters. I believe the puzzles and whatnot are mostly secondary. So it would have been okay (on my opinion) to have a more incomplete game and get another way of knowing the whole story... the fact that we didn't even get that makes me so angryyyyyy.
Like how could he just stop caring about the best story I've ever read ?? I just don't believe it was lack of money.
But I guess it's like famous singers, you become a fan because you like their style and then they change and evolve and they don't give you the same thing. So I'll see it like that. Still, it's a bit --- UNFAIR in this case.
So yea thanks for the vid ! :) it was a ride, I loved it.
No, thank you for watching and the feedback! I probably didn't articulate this well but it definitely felt like the game had its story re-written to be more appealing to a 'new audience', something that wouldn't of been the case had it not been on a hiatus due to poor sales. But I completely agree, a lack of a Q&A or even files talking about D-team's fate after the game is a disservice to the fandom. You're probably right that Uchikoshi was probably well and truly over the Zero Escape story by the time the game got to come out, under whatever conditions had to be in place for the game to be a reality.
@@GoldScope What I feel happened is he got upset that at the end the story wasn't truly his anymore, having other writers on the other teams destroyed his vision and story telling which is why it felt so disjointed.
I wouldn't be surprised if down the line he doesn't do a crowdfunding thing to do a "Proper ending to Zero Escape" If he manages to get the rights to the game.
I would want nothing more than a re-done and proper finale for the series. Sadly I think Uchikoshi has moved on :(
@@GoldScope You never know, Maybe some time later he'll redo it. Look at Bloodstained for example. Took Koji Igarashi a bunch of years to finally say "Screw it I want my CV back"
Okay wow now that’s cool. For the crowdfund to reach $5m when the goal was only $500k is wild. This brings back a funny memory actually. When ZE3 was first put on hiatus, I remember Uchikoshi saying on twitter he briefly looked at trying to do a crowdfund but couldn’t because it was complicated with Spike Chunsoft involved. Never too late though.
ZTD is the hodgepot to create the new timeline. where everything deviated.
Delta is literally the same as Akane. but only he is looking from a distance a detached point of view.
free the soul is a weird organization which goes against its self for its self.
akane being one of them.
this is all for creating the Perfect world. or rather the perfect timeline.
where 999 was pretty stand alone. VRL had a direct effort in to creating timelines. so that that single perfect time line could exist.
ZTD is doing the same thing but 100 times more aggressively.
plot wise it makes sense.
but all that is swept under the rug with the ending. as it never happened in the perfect timeline.
the thing is its a weird feedback of cause and effect. looping back in to a new cause and effect.
how what when happen we never know.
cause we never even seen the Zero`th timeline where it all started. where there was no akane, phi and delta.
where humanity has been wiped out.
I will say Another Time's End was the biggest disappointment for me for ZTD cos' like everyone else the assumption was that she was talking to K as he was the backup to Sigma. And then K never existed which is really disappointing when you think Eric could be replaced and nothing of the main narrative would be lost. They could have added an interesting layer that Sigma and K have a mental link and then they convinced DCOM that they were twins.
Communication through that Mental Link could have foreshadowed the twist like radio interference from Zero's Mind Hacking..maybe even a Mind Hacking battle in the climax cos' the ramp up to the ending was disappointing.
Great Video if you're not another Ramzaes Alt.
Thank you for watching! Yeah, so many ways they could’ve wrote in K and ? to make it a really mind-blowing finale. Very annoyed that the Another Time end was just written off :( I genuinely have no idea who Ramzae is, who are they and what’s the situation there?
@@GoldScope I even would have taken the Meta route as Uchikoshi suggested and did'nt follow up on that the player is some sort of multi-dimensional reaching entity or even a well meaning alien helping them through Alien technology, considering he brought Alien technology to the series..don't really see the harm in making a big part of the series. Sure make them an all-seeing entity but they're not all powerful. As crazy as that sounds, it's much bigger gut punch of a plot twist and would make me buy that humanity had a fighting chance against the Religious Fanatic even with the same ending. Zero would also know of him through the machine's existence naturally.
He's a very (lost?) UA-camr who has many differently named accounts (one possibly deleted?) he makes videos on until he went back to his main one cos it was naturally the only one with any traction. It was just tiring bumping into him in the algorithm when he could just make videos on the main channel instead like he eventually relented to. Your ozzie accents are a touch similar after all, my mistake.
It felt like that was what Uchikoshi was trying to do with the whole shower room scene and players being “forced against their will” to press the button. I would’ve loved if ZTD completely broke the 4th wall with the player being the one who helped saved the world rather than Delta and alien technology that’s never referenced outside ZTD :S
No need to apologise! Interesting though, I haven’t come across any of his videos but I’ll keep an eye out.
@@GoldScope Alien tech could have been easily been referenced as what Akane was talking about in Another Time's end as the other method that K would have used to go back in time. Thinking about it, it makes too much sense as the game goes on about how SHIFTing and the Transporter are the only two methods to travel through time. Almost feels like this was Uchikoshi's Intention until someone went "We need more new characters than old" which knocked K out. Which also explains why all the leaders are new characters as well. Like you said that Uchikoshi Twitter post after ZTD was made feels very timely retroactive for some reason.
Oh that is so clever! The transporter would also be how they could’ve copied Clover and Alice’s consciousnesses and bodies from Another Time to the “good timeline” in ZTD. Soooo much potential for an extended plot, but yeah constraints from higher up would’ve gotten in the way of all of that :S
Really good video. Would love to know your opinion on dangamrompa v3's ending twist?
Thank you! I could do another whole 40 minute video on that but in short, it left a horrible taste in my mouth. I hated it and felt like it undermined the entire game. In saying that, I haven’t replayed it since launch and I might be a bit more receptive to it now. I felt the same with the ending of the Danganronpa 3 anime. What are your thoughts?
Really enjoyed this! Honestly, for how well put together this video is, it's shocking how low the view/like count is!
Thank you so much, and I’m glad you enjoyed! It’s my first video so here’s hoping onwards and upwards from here 🤞
Great vid. Deserves so many more views and subs.
Personally I wouldn't say ZTD was THAT bad, had a lot of fantastic moments, but I do admit it did leave a sour taste in my mouth when I finished it.
Thank you so much! Comments like this mean a lot.
Yeah I'm a bit tough on ZTD and it's probably from the super high expectations I had for it :(
ZTD as a game isn't all that bad, but as a Zero Escape game, and especially as the end of its trilogy, it's absolutely atrocious imo
Chainsaw Akane still haunts me
You and I both
I have a theory that she never intended to kill Carlos but was pantomoming to Zero and intended cut off his bracelet (thats why she only slashes his arm off) but Carlos gets so in his own head he truly thinks he or Akane are the killer
i like the nissan 350z
oh my god, YES. 41 MINUTES AND THIRTY THREE SECONDS OF AN AMAZINGLY WELL DONE REVIEW WHERE I CAN SIT, ENJOY MYSELF AND SINK IN THE HATRED I HAVE FOR THE THIRD GAME WHICH, EVEN AFTER SEVEN YEARS, IS STILL AS ALIVE AS THE DAY I FINISHED IT. Thank you for this.
What this game tried to do with it's fragmented storyline, 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim succeeded at. Granted, 13 Sentinels is a whole linear story instead of one with all these massively branching pathways and stuff, but still.
In terms of multiple seperate POV characters, each with their stories playing out within a greater narrative, and with their own secrets and mysteries that the player needs to put together in order to fully understand the whole story and timeline of events...
Yeah, nothing is gonna top 13 Sentinel's execution of that formula. The only real issue with it would be some characters being more important than others in terms of how much their story reveals of the greater scheme. One has maybe one or two big reveals in their story, and then you have this random unassuming kid where EVERY TIME it feels like playing through one of his story beats drops a Plot Twist Pipe Bomb down the mouth of the greater narrative.
That isn't too much of a complaint though given that you can, more or less, go through the game in whatever order of character you want.
So yeah...
Moral of the story, I want more games like 13 Sentinels.😂
I've never played 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim, but this comment has piqued my interest! Thanks for sharing, I might check it out.
There was too much suspension of disbelief for me.
Also, I couldn't have cared less about team Q.
Yeah, which is a shame because all three on Q team had heaps of potential.
I actually really loved this game when it came out, but you also get the sense that it feels disconnected from the other two titles. Even the quirky toned down anime style of the characters is absent-not that it's required, but it feels like the plot to another game at points. I will say that the gruesome ways in which they die in most cases feels like rejected Itchy and Scratchy skits
Funny, I think VLR was the one that was toned down and less anime-like. I found its lack of blood pretty jarring after playing 999, as well as its stiff 3D models and scarce animations.
Also the whole stage was very repetitive, unlike the Titanic. It felt like being trapped in a huge metal box that always looked the same.
Haha I now cannot stop thinking about how closely Akane in ZTD resembles Itchy with the chainsaw in certain scenes
Yes. What you said makes sense. To me, it feels like a cheat getaway ending. I tried very hard to know what the game plot actually is with many deaths and twist. In the end, I can just remember they got out.
I am halfway there. Comment is up to 21st minute.
I mostly agree with what you had to say but my response to it seem to be different. I really disliked the new characters in ZTD and also was not too fond of the dramatic moments. However, I mostly liked how it tied the plots of the other games and "mostly liked" is way more than I expected in a series like this one. Ending series like Zero Escape (massively loved for their complexity and out of the box ideas) is very, very hard and historically had been done with almost assured failure.
I saw ZTD's lacking characters as ironically fitting the series perfectly. 999 started with great drama and characterization but was overall lacking in plot complexity and interesting subplots. Santa and dead Akane somehow made all that to save Akane but how? To what end did we get all the conspiracies in the game etc. I felt that VLR had a tremendous plot and addressed most of 999's issues but somewhat paid in the characters department. So it is more of a balance between the two and was my favourite entry by a country mile. ZTD completely ramped up the overarching structure's strangeness, the plot is even more tangled (in a good way in my opinion) but the characters suck. It went completely the oposite way compared to 999.
I really liked how you've put this and I mostly agree! I agree that as the plot in each game got bigger, the writing of the characters definitely took a hit. 999 had a massive benefit of being the 'simpler' game and having the room to focus on most of the characters, something that was lost in VLR (despite also being my favourite) and even more so in ZTD.
honestly, ive hated this game since release and VLR is my second most favorite game ever. ZTD was just so shallow and weird compared to 999 and VLR. and there were so many things unexplained. i know its never going to happen, but i wish uchikoshi had the budget to remake the game in a more cohesive way with the rest of the trilogy :/ maybe i dislike the game so much because i really care about the series a lot..
don't forget that the religious fanatic might not exist! remember the fanatic bio r? it's an anagram for fabrication! this might just be deltas weird wet saw movie dream with no payoff!
Another very clever anagram by Uchikoshi, thanks for sharing! I hadn’t picked this up. What a very depressing theory - I’m not sure why Uchokoshi is so intent on making the point of the series event so pointless :S
After finishing the game today, I can see why it’s the fan-least favorite. ZTD was something else. The convoluted storyline, the fragments, and the fact that it was created on a low budget-it was a hot mess. But hey that didn’t deter my enjoyment of the game, let alone the series.
Glad you still managed to enjoy the game!
The #1 rule of hating on ZTD is acknowledging that the bonus end scene in VLR is literally not canon, and should not have been written. It was an unbelievably mammoth blunder on Uchikoshi's part to add that scene with Kyle, and his decision to do so, despite apparently not having any actual story idea backing it up, pretty much ruined Zero Escape as a series. I remember waiting for ZTD to come out and theorycrafting about it -- there was so much community expectation riding on the foreshadowing of that extra scene. So that when ZTD ended and there was no Kyle, it felt like all of those years and months being hyped for ZTD were met with a big middle finger from Uchikoshi. These days you can just play VLR and ZTD back-to-back and the disappointment does not sting so much.
If you simply memoryhole that final VLR scene, I did actually like most of the premise of ZTD. imo where it majorly failed was not with the new story ideas, but the inability to integrate and resolve the ideas from the other games. This might not even be so fatal if only this were not so specifically the final game in the series. But knowing that THIS is the ending we got, one that is not only unsatisfying, one that leaves so much unresolved, but also IRREVERSIBLY RUINS certain beloved aspects of characters and plot, is a tragedy, and like you said, makes the other entries retroactively worse. Uchikoshi needs to pull an Anno and make the "End of Evangelion" for ZTD.
Also I will never not believe that Snake is Brother and there is nothing that will ever convince me otherwise. There is no way "You will know him by the sign" is an accident.
This!!!! VLR, specifically that sequence, set ZTD up for failure. And while ZTD definitely has its own issues, I feel like it is often unfairly judged. Its not on the same level of the other two games, but it doesnt deserve the hate.
You're spot on and I love the point of the years of 'theory-crafting' and ultimately being disappointed. The wait between the two titles and the expectations we set up for ourselves as fans was definitely our own doing.
That whole bonus scene can easily be explained acknowledging one single fact: Gab was Kyle.
As someone who started ZTD, played 1 hour (got the toss coin endings), stopped and picked up the game months later to finish it, i totally forgot Sean was not with everyone at the start of the game, so when i had the reveal of Delta/Q being there with Q-team i was just completly confused? when sean pointed the crossbow at the camera I was persuaded he was talking to me/the player and he was breaking the 4th wall LMAO and then delta/zero talked and the game just assumed i knew there was 4 people in Q-team since the beginning and it was so hard to understand what was happening. Same goes for the ending where Sean, Eric, Diana, Sigma and Carlos are all together and they turn to Q/Delta and say 'hey you're zero' and you see an old man pop from nowhere and I was ????????????? who is that!!!! why is there an old man where does he comes from! am i supposed to know who that is ? i guess if you followed the plot enough you would be like oh so it was the offscreen handicapped man all along! but for me i didnt even know he was supposed to be deaf, paraplegic etc it was just some random man popping from nowhere LMAOO
ngl i played the ZE trilogy for the puzzles more than the story, i really liked 999 but kind of hated VLR, the puzzles were bad and the story did not appeal to me, the revelations at the end were soooooo out there that i couldnt take the game seriously. for ZTD, the game is bad but it's so bad that it's good ? the game made me laugh from start to finish with it's bad animations and dialogues that makes every tense moment just stupid? the plot twist of phi being diana and sigma's daughter made me scream really hard, and the puzzles were actually better than VLR! the ending is shitty but i didnt like VLR either so i knew i wouldnt like this one. i agree with you that the fragments system made things overly confusing, there is sooo many things that fell flat bc they were kind of hinted in other fragments you unfortunately did before. the decision game is totally useless! no tense moments bc every choice is kind of obvious and bc of how fragmented the story is i just made random choices knowing i could go back at that point really easily in like 5 mins.
Great video, I would only say tone down the amount of game clips you throw in where character say stuff. Sometimes it works but most of the time it feels unnecessary or out of place.
Still a great video, just something to consider
Thank you for the feedback! I really appreciate it and will definitely take it on board.
I think the story wraps up what is meant to be following as VLR has foretold and peaks the trilogy. But the way this story is told deviates too much from the previous visual novel format and therefore loses its immersive nature and compelling rhythm. It focuses too much on how complex and clever the plot is but not as impressively delivered. Every character's share is too equal and no real focal point like Junpei and Sigma rendered each character's performance less impressive the story significantly less immersive. Still, scheme-wise it is the most clever and complex of the trilogy and deserves to be called climax closure.
Yes I agree with the sense that it's a very interesting concept, just very poorly delivered.
1:43 You know, ZTD being disappointing after all the effort and hype of everyone involved is kind of an ironic way to prove the theme of Life being simply unfair, don't you think?
Zero made ZTD a flop to screw with the fans haha!
@@GoldScope ... 0:16
Haha this made me laugh
@@GoldScope I initially had a bit more written, but decided that clip covered things quite well on its own. 😅
Just finished the zero escape series myself, and i basically agreed with almost all of this video. These are the things that really bugged me the most:
Overall, I really hate that Santa just stopped existing in terms of the main plot after 999. He was a crucial part of 999’s plot, being one of the two people behind the second Nonary Game along side Akane, and then just not being involved with the rest of the story????
Next complain I have is Clover and Alice. What the hell were they yapping about in the alternate ending of VLR?????
Then we get to ZTD, which I will admit I kinda had to force myself to play due to how much I hated the animations. I know that they had really big production issues and that the game was barely made, it just still sucked.
I also just really don’t like ZTD’s characters, outside of D-team and Carlos. Akane is “Boy oh boy Junpei you changed a lot. Also WHO HURT MY JUNPEI RAH!!!!” Junpei is “You should really just kill everyone. They are obviously going to betray us at any chance they get. Also I only care for Akane now.” And I’m not even gonna mention Q team.
Finally someone acknowledging how weird it is for Santa to just... disappear after 999
I was baffled to see he was never relevant in any of the sequels. Did they all just forget about him ?
@@astery5410 Honestly. The fact that Junpei didn’t question Akane on Santa in VLR confused me to start, but I thought it would be answered in the third game. And then it just… wasn’t?????
Thank you for voicing everything that bothered me about the game, but could not quite grasp until now.
Thank you for watching! Always nice to connect with fans who feel the same way!
No it didn't lol
I loved this video. I love this trilogy so much and ZTD was so sad i remember cuz i played them in real time saw a cancellation and then a revival. One thing i hated about D Team though was Phi's lack of presence. Most of their storylines happen in the reality where she burns. I think it happened too early and you didn't get to see the cool kickass Phi you grew to love in VLR because she's dead for most the game
Similar issue to Quark in VLR! Really takes away from them being able to have any meaningful role.
@GoldScope yeah. I think the issue I had was VLR stipulates so much that it isn't JUST Sigma that they need. They need Phi too. But then she's dead for most the game so why exactly do they need Phi? That i remember really annoying me
I played the three games back to back during the pandemic, and seeing all of this discussion regarding ZTD has been fantastic. You helped me understand why I felt so great after finishing 999 and VLR, but so "Meh" after that final shot of Carlos (no pun intended)
Great video!!
Playing the trilogy for the first time during the pandemic would've been absolutely surreal! Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed the video!
I agree that it is definitely the weakest of all 3, after all in these complex multi dimensional alternate timeline stories the hardest part is always "sticking the landing" by faaaar, that's why I think VLR is the best, 999 introduced the concepts and VLR perfected them, but ZTD had to close everything and still try something new, and I think the whole unconnected fragments which make it so you don't know what happened at what time, is a pretty neat new feature
I think some of the unsolved issues are VLR's fault and not ZTD like, Alice and Clover having a supposed way back or Uchikoshi saying that we will find out more about characters like Light or Aoi in the 3rd game just after the ending of VLR, it was bad foresight from his part promising these answers at a point where he didn't have a solution yet and forcing himself into a corner, if we hadn't had that conversation with Alice and Clover at the end VLR, during ZTD we would just be "oh, they are stuck in the future.....sucks for them but it was a necessary sacrifice I guess, fits with the overall theme of these games"
Delta wasn't that bad but they might've gone a bit too simple with just saying "complex motives" as a justification, his reasoning DO makes sense if think about him as the same level as old Akane in VLR, a higher level mind who has transcended the barriers of space and time due to his powers, creating plans that span decades just for a single result isn't as crazy for someone who can experience millions of years worth of lifetimes (even though Delta does it differently than normal shifters)
The whole alien stuff and replicators........we have had clones before, so it isn't thaaat crazy, and finally tying Phi and Sigma was pretty cool, clearly that was thought since VLR since Luna is based on Diana.....just....it being "alien tech" is the only thing that feels weird to me
Carlos is cool, helps to add some risk into being an Esper with the whole Reverie syndrome, makes you think that it wouldn't be so great to become an Esper if your mind isn't up to the job
Eric and Mira tho..........................meeeeeeeeeeh.... specially those whole thing that apparently Mira was the one who unknowingly sets the whole series in motion...........meeeeeeeh, rather just think of it as Akane's parents just being in a random tragic accident, no need for it to be connected or supernatural
Also.....no more dutch angles please
Still, I'm glad this game exist (best version of blue bird lamentation), for me it is
999 9/10 (no pun intended)
VLR 10/10
ZTD 8/10
At least it's not Ai The Somnium files........jeeez.... that one fucking sucks
Loved reading your thoughts, thanks for sharing! You're dead right about 'sticking the landing' - something a lot of trilogies seem to suffer with I think!
what's funny to me is that my opinions of the Zero Escape and Danganronpa series are kind of the same. In both trilogies I think the first game is the best written with the tightest and most satisfying twists, the second game isn't quite as good but expands on things well and has my favorite cast, and the third game makes CHOICES that don't entirely work and goes kind of bananas in a fascinating way
I feel that exact same way about Danganronpa! Everyone loved number 2, and while I enjoyed it - the first one will always be my favourite. V3 left an awful taste in my mouth.
Q-Team was uniquely awful and should have been removed from the game, and this is excluding the fourth hidden member of Q-Team and all of the baggage associated with THAT character and the associated twist. I'd rather they be replaced by Alice and Clover (through time travel bullshit or some other contrivance aside) who were built up over the course of the prior game(s), and have a unique stake in stopping Delta and his schemes. Them being so dead set on stopping Delta only to unwittingly release the Radical-6 plague in the bad-end (VLR connecting) route would have been more tragic because we at least have been following those characters throughout the series prior to ZTD.
Carlos was surprisingly good, but I maintain that his visual similarity to Dio and the rest of the Myrmidons should have been expanded upon, either with the reveal of him being a clone of Delta or an unwilling genetic progenitor/template for the rest of the cult by the time VLR picks up.
Alien fax machines are dumb and will never not be dumb. If left between an unsolved/unexplained mystery on how body jumping/the kooky shit in this series works and a poor explanation to those mysteries, I'd prefer the former.
The whole plotline about a fanatic determined to wipe out all of humanity rather than the slaughter we see from Radical 6 is dumb and stinks of sequel bait, which is horrible since most fans expected ZTD to be the final game in the series.
I'm glad Uchi went onto other projects, but ZTD burnt me on following the rest of his work.
Haha couldn’t agree more with your comment on alien fax machines!!
literally the one problem i have with the first two games is theres like no fucking deaths in the canon endings (ive not played ztd yet)
ZTD is perfect ending u noob
my motives are complex :(
It wasn't a bad game but it legit ruined the 2 other games lol
Yes indeed
Nah it was a good.
ZTD was the best one. Fight me lol 😂