The fact that we are debating who is right and wrong over a real possible situation potentially happening is a Testament to the greatness of the Hackman, Washington and the rest of the cast of this movie.
I always loved the irony of the last bit of dialogue in this video, the captain tells hunter he’s not ready to make tough decisions even though the decision he just made was by far not an easy one
That has to be one of the most, if not thee most, intense scene in cinematic history. I've never seen such intensity in a movie without physical altercation, well done!
True. Nowadays it would be some elaborate fight with rockets, guns, people leaping off walls, spinning back kicks etc whereas in great movies like Crimson Tide, sometimes the best conflicts are the ones that involve no physical violence. Two great actors, great storyline, great directing. This movie has it all. No movie of today could hold a candle next to this.
This scene is incredible... I especially like the moment from 00:54 to the end of the video where the original captain (Gene Hackman right?) realizes that he is completely overruled on the decision, and voluntarily hands over control without resisting. Sure, he comes back later to take back control after getting enough of the crew back on his side, but that moment where he remembered/realized that Denzel actually DOES have the authority to relieve him of his command and pretty much the entire crew was against his decision was some of the finest acting I have ever seen.
Thus part for Gene. And Jack N. 's part in A Few Good Men is fucking awesome . Both great actors. But they both are fucking awesome for fucking decades. Actors these days are fucking sad because the audiences are so fucking stupid and dumbed down.
Obviously, never been in the military. For those of us who have. This is hollywood. Mutiny is call for deadly force. Especially when Nukes are involved.
even the chief petty officer backed up the XO yet the capt ignored him. No one messes with a CPO in the Navy, our CPO chewed out an officer one time. He was one tough cookie but I liked him a lot.
@@jameswhite1031 Mutiny is call for deadly force. Yes. The only problem is that here there wasn't mutiny. Mutiny is the crew, or part of the crew, rebelling against the legal authority of their superior officers. There was no such thing here. Because the CO had lost that authority through his actions. In a ship the XO has (at the very least theoretically) the power to remove his CO from command in case he violates established regulations. He's not there to be a parrot, you know. He has a role to fill. One of those roles is seeing that the CO's orders are executed, other of those roles is exactly what the XO does in this scene: if the captain oversteps his authority and begins issuing illegal orders, he's to remove him from command on the spot. And in this scene the CO was not only violating established Navy Regulations, he was violating the nuclear protocol for launch of nuclear weapons itself too. The two-man rule is the cornerstone of american nuclear policy - That applies to even the President of the US - he can't call for a nuclear strike on his own - he needs one of the men in the authorized list to back that order, or the launch will not proceed. Of course, at land, there are multiple men that can take that 2nd spot. But in case of SSBNs there are not. Nuclear SSBN regulations demanded that both the CO and the XO of the boat both confirm the launch. In such a situation as the one in this scene, if the XO doesn't give his authorization the launch cannot proceed. That's it. The CO can't go handpick someone else to back his orders, because noone else on the boat is legally allowed to back a nuclear launch order he issues, exception made of his XO. The CO has already overstepped his authority by that point, but the VERY second the CO said "repeat my order, or I'll find someone who will", he went totally out of bounds in what regards to breaching all established regulations. And as a result had to be instantly relieved of command by the XO on the spot. And everyone in that room knew it. The CO the first. So once again - there's no mutiny here - there's a completely legal removal of an officer in command from his spot due to him overstepping his authority in violation of the regulations of the Navy he was serving, and in violation of the nuclear protocols of the USA.
@@ramjb I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second and ask "what about the part where Denzel is refusing to proceed with the launch order"? A message fragment as stated by the captain is not sufficient grounds to override a confirmed launch order. And the order said shoot IMMEDIATELY. By refusing to concur, isn't the XO now effectively obstructing confirmed legal orders? He was philosophically right. But was he 100% legally right?
The acting is as good as any I have ever seen. Brilliant. Even after the 10th time. Try to remember the first time you saw this scene. The tension was unbearable. Props to the director as well, who absolutely CRUSHED it.
Love these two actors. What people fail to see Gene Hackman portrayed a mentally unstable captain. And everyone who sided with him was also unstable. YOU see how calm and methodical the people who sided with Denzel. Who saved the world from a nuclear Holocaust!!! SHALOM I'm Yahudah🕎
You kinda understand him throught the movie as he is one of the most honest characters.. he never lies or never deceives..he is what he is.. he talks what he wants.. doesnt go easy on anyone and has a monumental potential shitty job that if ordered requieres someone to kill millions. He really only fails when refusing to consider the partial second message or take a time to confirm it (wich he does in the end when he reclaims control for the second time) and in the end he acknownledges he was wrong and apologices..
If Ramsey follows orders on one EAM then he has to find out what is in the second EAM and act accordingly. You can’t have different yardsticks for different EAM that is a formal order from NCA.
Shouldn't the launch authorization be the last message sent out? For example, all the initial messages should be orders to make ready and aim, and then the last order is to launch (or not). Seems like there should be a protocol for interpreting a garbled or in-authenticatable message received after a launch order.
@@crimony3054 That's the premise of the 1964 movie "Fail Safe" where a computer error causes an American bomber group to believe the Soviets are attacking the USA (actually caused by an off course civilian airliner) and are they are given unbreakable instructions to head to Moscow to drop Nuclear bombs on it, which they succeed in doing. The launch authorization should NEVER be the last message sent out for this reason, as human or computer error are always possibilities that can occur.
There are no winners in a nuclear exchange. The worst thing we can do is start one by accident. We will only make this decision one time. Lets try not to make it at all and not by mistake. Denzel was right.
Most accurate bubblehead movie ever made. Pride and joy of John Paul Jones and the US Navy. A DVD copy hangs framed in the entrance of ONI HQ, Maryland. Semper Fortis. Anchors away!
I used to always wonder... How would Hunter have reacted if he was proven wrong, the other American subs had been taken out, and the dissidents did launch their missiles and the Alabama could have prevented that launch and the start of the war? How would Ramsey have reacted if he had full control of the ship, had launched his missiles, and then found out that the dissidents had really surrendered?
Remember what Hunter says in the dining room scene. The enemy is war itself. If you're already in a nuclear war it doesn't matter who hit first, everyone loses. It's near impossible for the Alabama to have wiped out all of the missiles with her salvo, so even if he launches early with the full knowledge of everything the best he can expect is to have a smaller number of millions dead. That's not victory. If you get to launch-time, everyone loses. You and your enemy both.
Hunter is making the efforts to find out whether the first authenticated order is still valid and situations in Russia. The only way is to repair the damaged radio and reestablish communications. Only then he is able to know the truth and will take proper course of action. Ramsey on the hand never bothers to find out the truth and continued the first authenticated order to launch anyway. He never make any effort to known whether his assumptions are true or not. He takes a reckless gamble and hopes that he did the right thing. He will be horrified that he starts a war when situations in Russia has been resolved.
It's an interesting conflict, but there was a new EAM for a reason. Hunter also argued to Ramsay that their "target package may have changed" before relieving him of command and you'll note that Hunter did not say that the attack may have been called off. Ramsay tried to spin it that it might be a "fake Russian transmission", but that was extremely unlikely to any degree, as that would mean that Rebel Russians would have knowledge of American transmission codes. Ramsay was simply hellbent to launch the missiles, as he had already admitted he would during the officers dinner the evening before.
EAM is the channel where any instructions regarding the launch of nuclear weapons are sent. The first EAM message is to prepare the launch. The second one is complete due to avoid detection from rebel Russian sub. Captain Ramsay is wrong to ignore it. They are totally cut off from the rest of the world. Any info in hand are now obsolete. As for the incomplete EAM message, it is easily be a new set of coordinates if it is not a retraction order. Chance of it being a fake Russian transmission is zero to none as it is impossible for Russian rebels to gain access to US launch codes. Launching nuclear weapons is a very serious matter that requires great considerations. Nuclear war is an endgame for both sides. That's why Hunter wants to be very sure that they are in a situation where launching nuclear weapons is a necessity before he agrees with Captain Ramsay. That's why he insisted in reestablishing communication and get the full content of the message.
Wow!!! I just now realized that COB isn't that guys last name. It's his job/rank on the sub. Chief of the Boat. Damn how dumb am I?🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️😲😲😲
Nobody until they get the right messages, then the situation will be normalized and Captain will follow the orders of the EMT message with the agreement of his XO.
This is was when going to the movies was worth the cost.
True.
The lines right before and the
“NOW COBB” !!!! Epic Denzel
Yes sir!
Rip..Tony Scott
Who else here just to enjoy good acting by 2 phenomenal actors of a fictional situation and not discuss and argue the realism of said situation?
It is great acting...and this situation could happen.
The fact that we are debating who is right and wrong over a real possible situation potentially happening is a Testament to the greatness of the Hackman, Washington and the rest of the cast of this movie.
I concur..
19 I guess.
Situation is based on real times
I always like the "Now, Cob!" that Hunter gives at 0:47.
I like the moment he raises his voice to assert his authority "Chief of the boat!"
Genuine conviction.
I always loved the irony of the last bit of dialogue in this video, the captain tells hunter he’s not ready to make tough decisions even though the decision he just made was by far not an easy one
That has to be one of the most, if not thee most, intense scene in cinematic history. I've never seen such intensity in a movie without physical altercation, well done!
True. Nowadays it would be some elaborate fight with rockets, guns, people leaping off walls, spinning back kicks etc whereas in great movies like Crimson Tide, sometimes the best conflicts are the ones that involve no physical violence. Two great actors, great storyline, great directing. This movie has it all. No movie of today could hold a candle next to this.
Oh really? Please go on and tell us why exactly is it the most intense scene in cinematic history.
This scene is incredible... I especially like the moment from 00:54 to the end of the video where the original captain (Gene Hackman right?) realizes that he is completely overruled on the decision, and voluntarily hands over control without resisting. Sure, he comes back later to take back control after getting enough of the crew back on his side, but that moment where he remembered/realized that Denzel actually DOES have the authority to relieve him of his command and pretty much the entire crew was against his decision was some of the finest acting I have ever seen.
Thus part for Gene. And Jack N. 's part in A Few Good Men is fucking awesome . Both great actors. But they both are fucking awesome for fucking decades. Actors these days are fucking sad because the audiences are so fucking stupid and dumbed down.
Obviously, never been in the military. For those of us who have. This is hollywood. Mutiny is call for deadly force. Especially when Nukes are involved.
even the chief petty officer backed up the XO yet the capt ignored him. No one messes with a CPO in the Navy, our CPO chewed out an officer one time. He was one tough cookie but I liked him a lot.
@@jameswhite1031 Mutiny is call for deadly force. Yes. The only problem is that here there wasn't mutiny. Mutiny is the crew, or part of the crew, rebelling against the legal authority of their superior officers. There was no such thing here. Because the CO had lost that authority through his actions.
In a ship the XO has (at the very least theoretically) the power to remove his CO from command in case he violates established regulations. He's not there to be a parrot, you know. He has a role to fill. One of those roles is seeing that the CO's orders are executed, other of those roles is exactly what the XO does in this scene: if the captain oversteps his authority and begins issuing illegal orders, he's to remove him from command on the spot.
And in this scene the CO was not only violating established Navy Regulations, he was violating the nuclear protocol for launch of nuclear weapons itself too. The two-man rule is the cornerstone of american nuclear policy - That applies to even the President of the US - he can't call for a nuclear strike on his own - he needs one of the men in the authorized list to back that order, or the launch will not proceed. Of course, at land, there are multiple men that can take that 2nd spot.
But in case of SSBNs there are not. Nuclear SSBN regulations demanded that both the CO and the XO of the boat both confirm the launch. In such a situation as the one in this scene, if the XO doesn't give his authorization the launch cannot proceed. That's it. The CO can't go handpick someone else to back his orders, because noone else on the boat is legally allowed to back a nuclear launch order he issues, exception made of his XO.
The CO has already overstepped his authority by that point, but the VERY second the CO said "repeat my order, or I'll find someone who will", he went totally out of bounds in what regards to breaching all established regulations. And as a result had to be instantly relieved of command by the XO on the spot. And everyone in that room knew it. The CO the first.
So once again - there's no mutiny here - there's a completely legal removal of an officer in command from his spot due to him overstepping his authority in violation of the regulations of the Navy he was serving, and in violation of the nuclear protocols of the USA.
@@ramjb I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second and ask "what about the part where Denzel is refusing to proceed with the launch order"? A message fragment as stated by the captain is not sufficient grounds to override a confirmed launch order. And the order said shoot IMMEDIATELY. By refusing to concur, isn't the XO now effectively obstructing confirmed legal orders? He was philosophically right. But was he 100% legally right?
The acting is as good as any I have ever seen.
Brilliant.
Even after the 10th time.
Try to remember the first time you saw this scene.
The tension was unbearable.
Props to the director as well, who absolutely CRUSHED it.
Well when you have 2 of the greatest actors of our generation that's what you get 👍
Two of the best actors EVER
i always thought COB was his name, but its actually an acronym for Chief Of The Boat. /mindfuck.
My heart's pounding just watching this clip again.
"CHIEF OF THE BOAT!!!".. (I will kick yo' ASS til' Christ comes back). Lmao
Love these two actors. What people fail to see Gene Hackman portrayed a mentally unstable captain. And everyone who sided with him was also unstable. YOU see how calm and methodical the people who sided with Denzel. Who saved the world from a nuclear Holocaust!!! SHALOM
I'm Yahudah🕎
I absolutely hated and despised Hackman’s character in this film. Till the end when he recommended Hunter his own ship.
Just shows how great of an actor Gene Hackman is.
You kinda understand him throught the movie as he is one of the most honest characters.. he never lies or never deceives..he is what he is.. he talks what he wants.. doesnt go easy on anyone and has a monumental potential shitty job that if ordered requieres someone to kill millions.
He really only fails when refusing to consider the partial second message or take a time to confirm it (wich he does in the end when he reclaims control for the second time) and in the end he acknownledges he was wrong and apologices..
I love this fucking scene so much.
If Ramsey follows orders on one EAM then he has to find out what is in the second EAM and act accordingly. You can’t have different yardsticks for different EAM that is a formal order from NCA.
Shouldn't the launch authorization be the last message sent out? For example, all the initial messages should be orders to make ready and aim, and then the last order is to launch (or not). Seems like there should be a protocol for interpreting a garbled or in-authenticatable message received after a launch order.
@@crimony3054 That's the premise of the 1964 movie "Fail Safe" where a computer error causes an American bomber group to believe the Soviets are attacking the USA (actually caused by an off course civilian airliner) and are they are given unbreakable instructions to head to Moscow to drop Nuclear bombs on it, which they succeed in doing. The launch authorization should NEVER be the last message sent out for this reason, as human or computer error are always possibilities that can occur.
“We don’t have time to fuck around”!!!
The acting 🎭 was great 😊
There are no winners in a nuclear exchange. The worst thing we can do is start one by accident. We will only make this decision one time.
Lets try not to make it at all and not by mistake. Denzel was right.
Most accurate bubblehead movie ever made. Pride and joy of John Paul Jones and the US Navy. A DVD copy hangs framed in the entrance of ONI HQ, Maryland. Semper Fortis. Anchors away!
Greatest movie all time....
What acting from 2 legends
Gr8 acting!!!!
I used to always wonder...
How would Hunter have reacted if he was proven wrong, the other American subs had been taken out, and the dissidents did launch their missiles and the Alabama could have prevented that launch and the start of the war?
How would Ramsey have reacted if he had full control of the ship, had launched his missiles, and then found out that the dissidents had really surrendered?
Remember what Hunter says in the dining room scene. The enemy is war itself. If you're already in a nuclear war it doesn't matter who hit first, everyone loses. It's near impossible for the Alabama to have wiped out all of the missiles with her salvo, so even if he launches early with the full knowledge of everything the best he can expect is to have a smaller number of millions dead. That's not victory. If you get to launch-time, everyone loses. You and your enemy both.
Hunter is making the efforts to find out whether the first authenticated order is still valid and situations in Russia. The only way is to repair the damaged radio and reestablish communications. Only then he is able to know the truth and will take proper course of action. Ramsey on the hand never bothers to find out the truth and continued the first authenticated order to launch anyway. He never make any effort to known whether his assumptions are true or not. He takes a reckless gamble and hopes that he did the right thing. He will be horrified that he starts a war when situations in Russia has been resolved.
@@MrLantean really??🙄
It's an interesting conflict, but there was a new EAM for a reason. Hunter also argued to Ramsay that their "target package may have changed" before relieving him of command and you'll note that Hunter did not say that the attack may have been called off. Ramsay tried to spin it that it might be a "fake Russian transmission", but that was extremely unlikely to any degree, as that would mean that Rebel Russians would have knowledge of American transmission codes. Ramsay was simply hellbent to launch the missiles, as he had already admitted he would during the officers dinner the evening before.
EAM is the channel where any instructions regarding the launch of nuclear weapons are sent. The first EAM message is to prepare the launch. The second one is complete due to avoid detection from rebel Russian sub. Captain Ramsay is wrong to ignore it. They are totally cut off from the rest of the world. Any info in hand are now obsolete. As for the incomplete EAM message, it is easily be a new set of coordinates if it is not a retraction order. Chance of it being a fake Russian transmission is zero to none as it is impossible for Russian rebels to gain access to US launch codes. Launching nuclear weapons is a very serious matter that requires great considerations. Nuclear war is an endgame for both sides. That's why Hunter wants to be very sure that they are in a situation where launching nuclear weapons is a necessity before he agrees with Captain Ramsay. That's why he insisted in reestablishing communication and get the full content of the message.
Back when Hollywood made something worth seeing unlike the garbage they spew now.
One of a string of such tough decisions perhaps
Brilliant film.
I'd hate to be one of the ratings escorting the Captain to his cabin.
Love this movie 🍿
I had no idea the Vice Captain had the authority to revoke the captains authority and place him under arrest, can this happen in the navy?
I imagine so. Makes sense.
Yes, he does. But, he also has to answer for that decision.
Wow!!! I just now realized that COB isn't that guys last name. It's his job/rank on the sub. Chief of the Boat. Damn how dumb am I?🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️😲😲😲
He says it like it is his last name...so don't be too hard on yourself.
It's an easy mistake to make. Quite often they call each other by rank in this movie e.g. XO, CO etc.
#loveit
Denzel is so handsome
i was surprised Captian didnt put up a fight .. i mean , a sudden moment of clarity/danger/meekness ???
What film is this
Crimson Tide
@@alohajoe98 thanks
Why are the music to the scene
"They're fueling OUR missiles" WTF. LOL!!!!!
He said "They're fueling THEIR missles".
"Noow COB!"
So with the captain relieved, who repeats the consent order?
no one will fire missiles without approval will get eam message then go to captain and read it and if the missile will be fired it will be fired
Nobody until they get the right messages, then the situation will be normalized and Captain will follow the orders of the EMT message with the agreement of his XO.
this week on "conflict".
This is pretty much like watching the 2020 election results.
I would’ve obeyed the commanding officers orders I admit it.