That is completely unprofessional of Captain Ramsey to act like that! Totally disrespectful and uncalled for! Cdr Hunter was just trying to make the logical decision to see if the order is to fire their missiles before making a very big mistake. If I recall Capt Ramsey told Hunter to not kiss his ass on this mission and that's what Hunter was not doing. He was just doing his job as an XO!
This is the major problem of the movie.. in real life both were a bit unprofesional here.. why? Becuase the XO would never argue with the captain in the CIC and the captain would not disregard the XO opinion in a crucial matter.. in real life the XO and CO would meet in the wardroom probably along the TAO and WEPS and present the arguments here.. and then the CO would reach a decision.. if that decision would be deemed ilegal they would "stop" him right there but they would never go like this arguing each other in the CIC or anywhere in the presence of the crew.. In "public" the XO will allways agreee with the CO .. if not they will argue in private. Ironically the movie does do that earlier and even explains the logic to the audience.. and then both fail at it later.. tought after this failed first the CO went from wrong to wronger
No captain would cut of his first officer like that. One of the jobs of the first officer is to suggest alternatives. If he made his decision, he would simply tell the first officer and at that point, the FO would be expected to follow his orders. He never got to that point, he just started being sarcastic right away. Makes for a good movie, but it would never happen that way in real life.
One other thing: NO WAY would a superior officer ever talk that way to his 2nd in command in front of other people where the crew could hear it. That is the quickest way to undermine the chain of command, and for the seamen to lose respect for the chain of command.
Also in my understanding as long as the two would be disagreement whether to launch the missiles, then they dont have the authority or permission or capability to act alone.
Most accurate bubblehead movie ever made. Pride and joy of John Paul Jones and the US Navy. A DVD copy hangs framed in the entrance of ONI HQ, Maryland. Semper Fortis. Anchors away!
Two reasons why from the jump the Captain was wrong: The EAS specifically was cut off and they had to confirm. The was a SECOND sub who was tasked with the same mission incase they fell out of contact. There was NO reason to fire those missiles on the off chance he could be wrong. H
I really wish they had either made Commander Hunter's character less OBVIOUSLY correct, or made Captain Ramsey less arrogantly single-minded and egotistically unreasonable.
People in comments saying "What if hackman was right and the launch was away." It wouldn't matter, nuclear war isn't an incremental game of chess, its an instant loss on both sides...wouldn't matter how long they decide to launch their missiles, the result will be the same.
Exactly....sure in this scenario it were Russian extremist rebels who had taken over one missile base and thus even if they had launched their nukes, its less likely that Russia would have replied in kind, because in this scenario the only target was that missile base and US could have explained and likely would have explained that they had lost contact with Alabama. But if the rebels had launched their missiles first and targeted US cities, then US would have had much harder time not to respond in kind and target Russian cities in kind. So in this case pre-emptive strike could have actually been better option. Still in this kind of scenario you would think that its automatically duty of US submarine commanders to make sure that if they were about to receive second set of orders that what those orders were before launching anything, cause in real world there is no room to make any kind of mistakes, they need to be 100% sure what their current orders are.
I mean if this movie is a true story then the US nuclear launch protocol is a real mess.. I mean how could you launch your missles while your communication system is down ? The communication system must be up from the moment of launch order to the actual launch in case of a last minute abort order..
It's like this IRL now, as far as non-classified sources can attest. A direct link is required from the President's Football (the nuclear code device that follows the US President everywhere). These sources don't explicitly say so, but logically this means the sub must be in direct radio contact and receiving a signal until the moment of launch. A two-man system still exists on the sub with the captain and XO, but they effectively only arm the system. The missiles still won't launch without the President's signal. If this had been the case during the movie, there would have been no problem, as Hunter would have no issues with arming the system, and the launch would require radio contact be re-established. Of course, it's the case now.....which implies at some point in the past, it wasn't. The movie credits cites 1996 as the time this was changed, but I don't think a non-classified date actually exists for when exactly this happened.
Gene Hackman was never the first choice to play Ramsey. The studio wanted Al Pacino, who, after dawdling on it, pretty much just ignored the offer. Can you imagine Pacino in this role?
Nah. Pacino is overrated. I wasn’t a fan of Pacino’s portrayal of Jimmy Hoffa. That was magnificently portrayed by Jack Nicholson. I would say that Gene Hackman was born for this role.
@@damiion666 That's what you think, uneducated clown. Most military personnel KNOW that #Bunkerboy is a Coward and a Fraud and chose not to vote for his orange CULT Traitor ass, period!
@CyberPup 22 I rather take the Orange man any day of the week over Dumbo Brian Dead Biden. Just think if Trump was still in power and all this crap going down me in Europe starting ww3. F-u to the Liberals, NEOcons and mainstream media for ignoring the Minsk Agreement.
How these two greats didn't even get an Oscar nod is beyond me
Wth are you talking about?
Denzel Washington- Training Day
Gene Heckman- French Connection
That is completely unprofessional of Captain Ramsey to act like that! Totally disrespectful and uncalled for! Cdr Hunter was just trying to make the logical decision to see if the order is to fire their missiles before making a very big mistake. If I recall Capt Ramsey told Hunter to not kiss his ass on this mission and that's what Hunter was not doing. He was just doing his job as an XO!
This is the major problem of the movie.. in real life both were a bit unprofesional here.. why? Becuase the XO would never argue with the captain in the CIC and the captain would not disregard the XO opinion in a crucial matter..
in real life the XO and CO would meet in the wardroom probably along the TAO and WEPS and present the arguments here.. and then the CO would reach a decision.. if that decision would be deemed ilegal they would "stop" him right there but they would never go like this arguing each other in the CIC or anywhere in the presence of the crew..
In "public" the XO will allways agreee with the CO .. if not they will argue in private.
Ironically the movie does do that earlier and even explains the logic to the audience.. and then both fail at it later.. tought after this failed first the CO went from wrong to wronger
Ramsey also a racist POS.
The captain is also racist near the end when he talks about horses.
@@sparrowlt I was navy if you don't think mutinous shit could happen, then you haven't been there and done that, although I was NOT a sub boi.
I've watched this movie twice this week and I'm about to watch it again because the times that we are living in right now
No captain would cut of his first officer like that. One of the jobs of the first officer is to suggest alternatives. If he made his decision, he would simply tell the first officer and at that point, the FO would be expected to follow his orders. He never got to that point, he just started being sarcastic right away.
Makes for a good movie, but it would never happen that way in real life.
One other thing: NO WAY would a superior officer ever talk that way to his 2nd in command in front of other people where the crew could hear it. That is the quickest way to undermine the chain of command, and for the seamen to lose respect for the chain of command.
Also in my understanding as long as the two would be disagreement whether to launch the missiles, then they dont have the authority or permission or capability to act alone.
@@Balnazzardi Bravo, that is the biggest point of all in this, well done!
@@ruthlesshack1279 not sure if that was sarcastic comment or not but thanks anyway 😄
@@Balnazzardi No sarcasm at all, you made the absolute correct point that I have also tried to make in other clips of this great movie!
When the COB turned around the look on his face was "oh here we go again" lol
I actually had more of an impression that COB was thinking "Oh Shit, the old man has finally lost his mind!"
@@ruthlesshack1279 or thinking, both of their wigs need split and I'll get the EAM myself.
@@chrismc410 Haha! You could be so right...
XO is required to perform ONLY lawful orders
Okay, boomer.
I'm calmer than you are.
@Sturmuli muli the irony is that they are on an actual "boomer" :)
@@Exchiefboy Gene Hackman is probably silent generation and Denzel is a boomer.
Hackman and Denzel acting is superb
Most accurate bubblehead movie ever made. Pride and joy of John Paul Jones and the US Navy. A DVD copy hangs framed in the entrance of ONI HQ, Maryland. Semper Fortis. Anchors away!
Captain just wanted to fire dem missiles!
Two reasons why from the jump the Captain was wrong:
The EAS specifically was cut off and they had to confirm.
The was a SECOND sub who was tasked with the same mission incase they fell out of contact.
There was NO reason to fire those missiles on the off chance he could be wrong. H
Exactly. The Captain was acting purely off of ego, which is the worse type of leader anyone would want to be part of.
I really wish they had either made Commander Hunter's character less OBVIOUSLY correct, or made Captain Ramsey less arrogantly single-minded and egotistically unreasonable.
He was to irrational and emotional to be captain of a boomer.
Alot of big navy is irrational.
People in comments saying "What if hackman was right and the launch was away." It wouldn't matter, nuclear war isn't an incremental game of chess, its an instant loss on both sides...wouldn't matter how long they decide to launch their missiles, the result will be the same.
Exactly....sure in this scenario it were Russian extremist rebels who had taken over one missile base and thus even if they had launched their nukes, its less likely that Russia would have replied in kind, because in this scenario the only target was that missile base and US could have explained and likely would have explained that they had lost contact with Alabama.
But if the rebels had launched their missiles first and targeted US cities, then US would have had much harder time not to respond in kind and target Russian cities in kind. So in this case pre-emptive strike could have actually been better option.
Still in this kind of scenario you would think that its automatically duty of US submarine commanders to make sure that if they were about to receive second set of orders that what those orders were before launching anything, cause in real world there is no room to make any kind of mistakes, they need to be 100% sure what their current orders are.
"All I'm saying captain is we have backup..."
but not a backup radio or two?
They do. But it's a plot issue for the movie. Hollywood.
Glad I was never commanded by Hackman or I would have done a Fletcher Christian...
0:40 unecessary insult to that crew member just doing his job.
+Itachi Uchiha With respect, sir...I didn't hear the insult. Blunt, direct, cold order...no insult. However, perhaps you see it differently.
2:13 Total silence.
I mean if this movie is a true story then the US nuclear launch protocol is a real mess.. I mean how could you launch your missles while your communication system is down ? The communication system must be up from the moment of launch order to the actual launch in case of a last minute abort order..
What happens when you got a trigger happy Captain whose in a haste to release some nuclear missiles the very minute he gets a whistle
It's like this IRL now, as far as non-classified sources can attest. A direct link is required from the President's Football (the nuclear code device that follows the US President everywhere). These sources don't explicitly say so, but logically this means the sub must be in direct radio contact and receiving a signal until the moment of launch. A two-man system still exists on the sub with the captain and XO, but they effectively only arm the system. The missiles still won't launch without the President's signal. If this had been the case during the movie, there would have been no problem, as Hunter would have no issues with arming the system, and the launch would require radio contact be re-established.
Of course, it's the case now.....which implies at some point in the past, it wasn't. The movie credits cites 1996 as the time this was changed, but I don't think a non-classified date actually exists for when exactly this happened.
Gene Hackman was never the first choice to play Ramsey. The studio wanted Al Pacino, who, after dawdling on it, pretty much just ignored the offer. Can you imagine Pacino in this role?
HHHHCCCCCCOOOOOAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Let's see if anybody get's this.
@@messemphanger Scent of a woman.
No.
Nah. Pacino is overrated. I wasn’t a fan of Pacino’s portrayal of Jimmy Hoffa. That was magnificently portrayed by Jack Nicholson. I would say that Gene Hackman was born for this role.
@@twofivebwith Robert DeNiro as backup. But yes, Gene Hackman OWNED this role.
2:14
In my humble opinions...all sailors worldwide is so stressed out....the living conditions is not suitable for human actually...boring life....
what film is it ?
Crimson Tide.. 1995 .. very underrated movie.
@@humbertoflores2545 How is it underrated? It is generally considered to be in the top 3 submarine movies with Das Boot and Hunt For Red October.
This is how our new President acts like. Trump being irrational and emotional every sec on twitter!
Ryan Dude yet the military respects him, unlike the idiot obummer 😂
R E N T F R E E
@@damiion666 That's what you think, uneducated clown. Most military personnel KNOW that #Bunkerboy is a Coward and a Fraud and chose not to vote for his orange CULT Traitor ass, period!
Well . . . That didn't exactly age well, now did it?
@CyberPup 22 I rather take the Orange man any day of the week over Dumbo Brian Dead Biden. Just think if Trump was still in power and all this crap going down me in Europe starting ww3. F-u to the Liberals, NEOcons and mainstream media for ignoring the Minsk Agreement.