Mother "Butchered" Her Twin Daughters with a Samurai Sword: THE TRAGIC MURDERS OF TORI AND LILY BALL
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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On October 12, 2010, firefighters responded to a call at an apartment, rented by Monica McCarrick. When arriving to the scene, however, they found that 3 year old Tori and Lily ball were dead, and Monica was barely clinging to life. Turns out, Monica used a sword to murder her 2 young daughters, and attempted to take her own life. What could have caused this mother to commit such a disturbing act?
What are your thoughts on this case? Let's discuss in the comments.
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the other adults in the family failed these girls. the mother had been erratic and not making sense for a while. someone should’ve stepped in. the poor babies 💔
Agreed. Don’t know why no one caught on to her behaviors and clear signs of mental illness before this happened. At least the one friend tried setting her up with a counselor.
@@RachelShannonsadly in most states the grandparents have no rights and can be charged with kidnapping if they try to intervene. I had friends attempt to intervene, called CPS 3 times, almost got charged with kidnapping, and still lost their grandson to his parents' drug problem (accidental death). God bless his little soul. 😢 They (the grandson's parents) are serving prison terms now.
In this case, I'm sure that the mom of the twins was exhausted and was used to getting help from time to time with her family helping out. There had to be a level of insanity involved to cut your own achiles tendons and do what she did to those little sweet baby girls. I'm sure the statement she made to her cell mate after the fact was due to her multiple assessments over the years. God bless those little precious souls that never got the chance to grow up.😭😭😭
she was drugged spirtual attcked
@@darcyjeanske821all it would have taken was for a family member to call the police and have them
Do a welfare check and it would be clear mom wasn’t fit to be in charge of her kids for the time being. They could have taken kids and given them to safe family members while she got help needed. They could have worked with her to make sure she takes her meds and keeps her therapy appointments to ensure she is stable enough to get her children back! Grandparents didn’t need to kidnap their grandbabies or anything like that. They just needed to let the authorities know what was going on!
If you are found not guilty by reason of insanity your not going free. Your going to hospital indefinitely. This woman belongs in a mental institution. Not in prison. She was self harming when she was 11 or 12 years old. No doubt started using and abusing drugs to cope with mental illness which in turn would've just made it worse. This woman was far crazier than the young woman that beat her mother to death with a frying pan the week before.
I heard going to a mental hospital is worse than prison.
Wouldn't surprise me this world is cruel
@@lovestowritte3550in what way do you mean? I have worked in both as a psych nurse and I can assure you it's not worse than being in prison
@@PrimateProductions The people there are abused and stay there indefinitely.
No Linda, she belongs in fucking PRISON! If anything, she's fucking lucky she didn't get the damn death penalty! Given the fact she deserves it for what she did. Period....
During the last phone calls she had with her husband, he heard the fire alarms going off in the background and asked about it. And she stated to him, oh the twins and I are making fires in the house. And instead of calling the police for a welfare check he calls his mom to complain that’s “she’s lost it”.
😟
I’m baffled why so many people knew this mother wasn’t in her right mind and two children were in her care yet no one tried to get help? Like why didn’t no one call for the police for a welfare check anything?
My thoughts exactly, the people around her knew she wasn’t in the right state of mind to care for her kids yet no one did anything, disgusting 😒
when you are living with someone like this, everyday, for years & years, it starts to just be THEIR “normal” .. whereas for outsiders it sounds completely insane. Her family’s definition of completely insane for her would far exceed ours. Does that make sense? I think it’s the same phenomenon that happens in abusive relationships. At some point, abuse becomes the norm. So unless something extreme happens, the victim doesn’t see their situation as badly as an outsider does. I can see why the family may not have thought to get help. But I DO question why those further out from her inner circle that were recognizing the magnitude of crazy didn’t reach out for help for those kids.
I agree, the fact Rachel has some medical MH understanding (I think?) concerns me since she feels this doesn’t qualify but the last case she covered did?! The difference in the cases, the perpetrator actions leading up to and during the incidents plus other factors is astounding.
I sure hope Rachel Shannon doesn’t work in MH in real life
We’ll, my ex best friend was doing drugs, drinking alcohol, having sex with random men in her house, dealing drugs in her house and having drug dealers in her house and the kids knew. She didn’t take the kids to school for two months because she was too hung over to do it and all she got was a slap on the wrist. No one called CPS except me. They all thought she was going to change but she got worse. She lied constantly. She did whatever she wanted to do not what she needed to do. Everything that came out of her mouth was a lie. So it’s sadly very common. No one wants to step over the line.
@@cailin5309makes total sense
I think this is one of the few cases where an insanity plea is absolutely justified. This woman was very clearly not sane & not in control of her faculties at the time & long before this happened. She even reached out for help with the girls! Nobody stepped in. Nobody called anyone to check in on them, nothing. These kids were failed by all the adults around them & so was the mother to be honest. All of them needed help. I cannot fathom how this went on for so long or how she was found guilty.
Aaaa
I hate it when the other parent is " devastated ' after the fact, like if you were present in your kids life you could have done something to prevent the tragedy
My thoughts exactly.
So many people were aware that this woman was completely mentally deranged and in sole care of 2 children yet they didn't call the police? 😢
I'm in at the 21 minute mark and I'm wondering the same thing smh.
they would just keep giving the kids back and allowing her to pop out more
That’s literally what I was thinking. If Robert was concerned enough to tell his mother that she’s lost her mind, why not call the police or social services? If he didn’t care about her own well-being then he could’ve at least ensured the safety of the twins.
@@williamparker7025it sounds like she had drug induced schizophrenia. I had a friend with it and he fought his demons as best he could but ending up OD’ing last September
@@maryjane4432and what does that have to do with this???
She wasn’t faking her illness she was very sick before she even started using meth and then after using so long she was insane and I’m not understanding why nobody saw this because if you’re incoherent and have small children why didn’t somebody call somebody at some point.I wish Robert called for help I’m not blaming him I just feel like others had to have noticed I’m so sad for those babies although I think she was insane and should be locked away for the rest of her life.
Well maybe he needs to take the blame...someone needs to and she was certainly to delusional and in active psychosis to be responsible for what she did
@@PrimateProductionshe didn't murder anyone, let alone his own damn kids! Moron
@@PrimateProductionshonestly, if I could BAN you simply for NOT having even the least bit of common sense, you best believe I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat.
Accountability is needed. Robert and every adult in this 2 kids lives failed them. It is not their fault but they share some accountability because they knew the mom was VERY unwell and did nothing. for sure they will sufer the rest of their lives knowing that they could've alert police/social services and maybe prevent this. And i'm not even will talk about the dad. Why with dv priors, drug use issues and mental health issues, she had 2 kids in her care and no supervision or help plan? No nothing....
So.... some spoiled brat kills her mother && she's genuinely insane- yet, this woman who truly has, && HAS had, MAJOR mental illness isn't insane?? Ohhh, yeah. Because she's an addict. That's not judgmental at all.
44:15 I completely agree with you, but I do think that the insanity plea is warranted. I think it should have a different name though. If you plead not guilty by reason of insanity, you don’t get to go free, you get put in a mental hospital for an undetermined amount of time other than a minimum. That’s pretty much jail, and I think that the plea should be “guilty by reason of insanity” instead of “not guilty by reason of insanity”.
Some places call it "guilty but insane." Siggests the person did a thing but there may be reasons why it occurred.
Not sure how well that reasons legally, as the basis of not guilty by reason of insanity is the defendant can't form/doesn't have the mens rea (guilty mind such as intent or recklessness) of the offence, so can't be guilty of the offence.
It always shocks me that people think that means the perpetrator will walk free.
All of that baloney is just stupid semantics. Being mentally ill is not an excuse for murder, or any other crime. And there's ALWAYS an objective for the killer. Whether it's for money or a thrill kill. They all know it's wrong...yet still murder. Dummies want to believe they're insane, that's why we have defense attorneys. They're hoping to acquire those dummies on their jury.
@@sleepysadpoet Totally agree...such an amazing lack of common sense in this country.
I have twin daughters and one of them have twin daughters. This case hits me so unbelievably hard. All children are so precious. How could anyone harm a child.
My exact thoughts 💭 you don’t mess with kids!!!
By being extremely sick with mental illness, if someone is completely delusional.
@@PrimateProductionsshut up
Two beautiful souls taken from the world far too soon… As a Mama of 2 myself, any of these cases involving children, I desperately wish I could go back in time & just grab those babies, wrap my arms around them, & give/show them all the love that they deserved!!! It shatters my heart, but I really respect & thank you, Rachel for shedding light on these cases, despite how difficult they may be to talk about. I can only imagine it must weigh heavy on you… Sending much light & love your way♥️
This is so freaking sad. It's awful that everyone saw she was loosing it but no one did a damn thing.
Agreed. I wish more of her loved ones stepped in to help.
Agreed she was clearly not well
Other times, people cover for the murderous mother, and take the fall for the children's deaths. Yes.
soooo True it's sad!!! there was a sigh all over the place n still no1 did absolutely not!!!!
This.
Oh man this case sounds heartbreaking. It’s hard to stomach cases when it comes to children especially when I have two toddlers of my own 😞
It is really hard to hear these cases when you have children of your own- especially when they’re around the same age 😔
Brought tears to my eyes
You’re wrong about your idea that “anyone who takes a life should be accountable for it.” Have you met people with legitimate psychosis? I worked with patients while in psychotic episodes, and many lose those days completely. Such as conversations, actions, etc.
AND, being incompetent to stand trial, means they go to a state psychiatric hospital due to it being deamed that people are not safe with them in the world. They are not given a potential release date, and most die there. It’s completely locked and secure, like a prison. They don’t just say “well, since you were psychotic at the time, we will just let you go and hope for the best.”
Edited to add: I’m not referring to “Substance Induced Psychosis.”
Even substance induced psychosis is psychosis though. The driver may be different, but the outcome is the same. Anyone in a true psychosis should have that taken into account if a crime is committed whilst in that psychosis.
I agree - reflects great insensitivity to mental illness.
Im from Canada & sadly their are cases where mentally ill ppl have brutally murdered due to their mental illness. They are deemed legally insane at the time of the murder & sent to a psychiatric facilty & once they have been in for abit they are assessed & put on the right medication,, once they have good behaviour they are then released back into the public, the rules of the release are to have contact with their psychiatrist & to be sure they are taking their medicine. They are labeled not a threat to society if they follow through on rules of their release. For example " The Greyhound Bus Murder" that took place in Manitoba, it shook Canada to the core what he done on that bus & honestly I feel for the victims family so much because how horrible he died and what was done to his body. The muderer did not do much time in the phyc center. Once you watch the segment on it and news stories you will honestly think its unfair how he is out, I put myself in the shoes of the family of the victim ,no matter what I could not wrap my head around him being let back into society IDC how mentally ill he was,,,, wheres the justice for the victim & his family ❤RIP Tim Mclean ❤
WOW....this is crazy to me, that you covered this! I lived/live in the same town that this happened in. So heartbreaking. Thanks so much for covering this! No one talks about it here anymore. Bless those little girls.
So crazy when cases like this are so close to home. And of course- when I heard about this awful case, I knew I had to cover it.
@@RachelShannon It really is so tragic. My son was the same age as, Tori and Lily...so this has always stuck with me.
TruRED crime & the misery machine have also covered this case 💜 they are not forgotten, and their stories are being told by the most respectful creators
He heard fire alarms and she said they were making a fire and she’d been acting crazy and HE DIDNT CALL POLICE????
I can’t believe there’s a petition to give Monica a second chance! Her daughters will never get the chance to grow up because of her actions. I believe the jury did the right thing by sentencing her to life without parole
Somebody must be out they damn mind to have made a damn petition for that psycho of a woman. Tf they want her out of jail for?. People gotta stop tryna release these murderers and sadistic people. The nerve of some people man.
Omg no way , thats cruel & messed up, like who is actually siding with her on this 😢😢 Its not going to happen , she showed signs of wanting to be free of her daughters & responsibilities,,,also telling a cellmate to cut thereself & pretend to hear voices
Okay- so I fully believe she was in psychosis and legally insane at the time of the murders. However- I don’t know how she can live with herself after, or want freedom -or even feel deserving of that- after what she did. I think I’d just end myself at the thought of what I’d done while in psychosis. Or at least serve out my sentence and find it just.
@@PESWINOMVXl
Omg!! Really?? That is unfair and unbelievable. Her second chance should be repenting to GOD!!!!! Those poor babies.
22:35
😮😮🤦🤦🤦😮😮
*If Robert KNEW she was off her rocker.. WHY IN HELL did he NOT CALL 911 and have them go check on her.. and have his mom go get the twins?!?*
*I am So confused by this!*
2 questions why did she have custody of her daughters in her current state and why didn't no one intervene
The fact that she seriously attempted to take her own life at the time of the murders is inconsostent with the theory that her primary motive was simply to have a child-free life. You would have to argue that (a) her motive was to free herself of the responsibilities of parenthood but after commiting the murders she was so overwhelmed and distraught by she changed her mind and decided to end her own life as well, or (b) she did not actually intend to end her own life, only go stage the attempt, but in her frenzied state took the staged attempt several steps too far. Neither of these seem very probable to me. In addition, had she really been thinking clearly and logically, she would have realized that such an obvious and brutal murder of two young children would result in her arrest and not in her having the freedom to "go out and party."
Monica's paranoia and delusions fit with all the classic symptoms of meth use. Even if no meth was in her system that day specifically, meth can cause permanent brain damage and can have more severe and long-term effects in those who are already vulnerable and susceptible due to underlying mental health issues. As stated, this obviously in no way exonerates her, but it does in my opinion make the theory that she was in a delusional state at the time of the crime more likely than the theory that she was merely out to free herself of parenting responsibilities. She was very likely believing in the moment that she was sparing all of them from the immense malicious conspiracy sge was convinced of, and the unimaginably brutal way in which she went about it is to my mind consistent with the behavior of someone who is heavily split from reality.
I agree and disagree. I agree that her treating her own suicide attempt so brutally that she crippled herself rules out that she just wanted to start a new life and get away with it, but that doesn't provide any evidence whatsoever for your alternative. Instead, it is more reasonable that she brutally tortured, maimed and killed her kids not to "protect" them, which not even a schizophrenic would do, rather because she resented them, their father, or her current boyfriend or all the attention they got and planned as she said to take them out as punishment for perceived wrongs they had done. Guaranteed she had no intent to "save" them. If she had claimed they were imposters that would have been consistent with brain damage to attachment centers of the brain or a full blown schizophrenic episode, but she didn't. I don't deny she's delusional, but she is clearly not telling the truth about which delusion it was. Her actual delusion would paint her as a criminal not a misguided savior.
In 1997, my 18 y/o cousin was abducted, raped, and murdered by a monster she didn’t even know. He was convicted on all counts and sentenced to death. On his last appeal, he was found “not competent” for execution. He will now get to sit on Indiana’s death row for the rest of his miserable life. They even gave him a pet cat. That’s not justice in my eyes.
I don't think the text messages she wrote about needing a break or wishing she could go back to her life before kids, i don't think that shows she wanted to kill them. It sounds like so many overwhelmed mom's and dads, people write and say things like that all the time but they don't want to kill your kids. Im not saying she shouldn't be punished im just saying those things dont make her seem like a killer on their own
I agree 100%. Aside from mothers who try to put on some perfect image, it’s very normal to rant about the difficulties of being a parent and in no way reflects the love someone has for their kids. It’s a stretch to over evaluate behaviors that most people exhibit from time to time. Same goes for trying to make sense of her mental state. For example, mentioning that one of the girls was wearing a harness with a stuffed animal while Monica claimed to believe the stuffed animals had cameras in their eyes. There’s no way for our logical brains to understand what goes on in a mind that’s so ill. This is such a tragic story for everyone involved. I believe she was genuinely very sick & not just trying to escape her life.
I agree 💯
Exactly. Her subsequent suicide attempt contradicts any potential motive of wanting a child-free life anyways.
@@XxdeathbyleoxX that’s exactly how I feel. To be honest, no shame to this podcaster but I heavily disagreed with her opinions on this case. There are so many cases of heartless monsters who deliberately kill their children in their right state of mind. Regardless of how horrific the details are, someone in full-blown psychosis is completely different. Like you can’t even compare Andrea Yates to Susan Smith. It’s apples & oranges. The outcome is horrifyingly equivalent, but the intention was not. This case should be a cautionary tale about unsafe mind altering substances (in this case meth use) and the importance of mental health care.
The title made me so angry but when you hear her story she was clearly so very ill. I love your work but I think the title is unfair and should be reworded, she is mentally ill not a sadisitic killer.
Completely agree
Sounds like Monica has paranoid schizophrenia, but was never diagnosed properly. I havz two daughters, I can't even begin to think about the loss of these beautiful babies 🤍🤍
The insanity plea is absolutely not stupid. Its not supposed to be used to escape accountability, its used to protect someone unable to defend themselves in a legal capacity. Ppl who plead insanity are still “jailed” in a sense. Just not in a facility that we think of.
Just because there are a few ppl who abuse it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. We should be careful with words
I still think people should be held accountable for taking another persons life regardless of their mental state
@@RachelShannonright and I’m saying they are being held accountable. An insanity plea isn’t a get out of jail free card. Its a “jail will not rehabilitate this person in a way conducive to society” card, so instead of (or even sometimes in addition to) jail, they receive the psychological help they need.
Most viable insanity pleas are for citizens who aren’t even able to stand trial let alone prison: so they are locked away in a facility until they can stand trial or indefinitely. Is that not also still being held accountable? They aren’t being let out into the street, they are being held just not a traditional prison. And you know this. Blanket statements are dangerous, esp when talking about a vulnerable population of people.
Far more guilty, “sane” people escape being held accountable than there are “insane” ppl escaping accountability. The accountability just looks differently.
Now, if you’re saying that you don’t believe ppl who commit crimes deserve mental healthcare, you should just say that loudly.
@@SammIAmmcouldn’t agree with you more.
I don’t know… I feel sorry for her. She wasn’t diagnosed right as a child. And as an adult struggling with mental health in the U.S., it’s unfortunately very difficult for people to afford insurance or therapy. It’s way easier to get illegal substances. Those that struggle are looking for some form of relief. She didn’t get the help she needed with her girls either. Venting about being overwhelmed or wishing you had more free time as a single mom doesn’t mean that you wish your children dead. It doesn’t mean that giving them away to someone else is easy or even what you’d want either. The dad wasn’t there. I understand that she moved away, but he could have fought to see his girls. What she did was horrible and unforgivable. There were so many people that could have helped her but didn’t. My heart goes out to Tori and Lily. I hate that things didn’t turn out differently for those babies.
It's not unforgivable if one is in psychosis and is delusional and severely mentally ill. What a terrible thought that one cannot be forgiveness for doing something they had no conscious control over.
That's like saying to a person who had a stomach virus that has no control over poops their pants and permanently damages someone's furniture that they can never be forgiven. They are sick.
Sure, she needs to pay the price for the despicable crime she committed.
But, I dont think that biological father has much right to say about the whole situation. Where was he while she was struggling with kids ?!?! Did he help ?!?
Wow. This is a really awful case. As a mother of twin 3 year old girls myself( and a 9 year old daughter) with a husband who worked out of town a bunch after we moved to a new state this case hit really close to home. I am an overall upbeat glass half full kind of person and have been fortunate to have no mental health issues in my life, but after the twins were born and 6 months passed and my husband had to go back out of town for weeks at a time, I really slowly started to lose my mind! Some days, most days, I was just surviving with zero family or friends in our new state I was truly alone. My husband ended up taking a different position bc it just was not manageable. Not to mention now at 3yrs old it isn’t the same as newborn obviously but they are even more work in a lot of ways! I can totally see how someone with underline mental health issues, past drug abuse etc could totally slip into a mental spiral and lose their mind. I can also see how someone with past drug abuse issues slipping back into that from stress bc that’s just how you’ve always coped. This is no excuse for what she did but just another lesson where we really need to pay attention to our loved ones when they seem like they’re struggling. She was clearly very unwell. A perfect storm of chaos in her mind that exploded into this awful unforgivable act. My thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones.
I agree 100%
Being delusional or in psychosis and seriously mentally ill most certainly IS an excuse for when someone does something in those conditions.
My thoughts and prayers are with her herself as well. Once stabilized on meds I can only imagine the hell she has/will experience once it is realized all she has lost due to her own actions even if she shouldn't be held responsible for those actions. Seems like everyone here forgets that or just they just don't get how all that works when it comes to someone being delusional and in psychosis and severely mentally ill.
@@PrimateProductionsI already know your mental illness. Being an ıdıot!
I hate meth so much. My eldest brother's is considered "mentally retarded" (exact quote from his medical records) by the state we're from because he has done meth for the entirety of his adult life [when not in jail/prison], and even his late teens. He is not remotely the same person he was when I was born. We've had to contend with paranoia where he literally ripped out the ceilings of our home while we were away caring for a dying relative because "there was a girl trapped in there calling to me" and cutting down a couple hundred trees on our 12½ acre property because "people were hiding behind them" and, quite recently, removing the floor joists at my grandfather's FEMA cottage underneath the tub (so no one can use it without falling through) because "people were living under there".
My next eldest brother has also gotten heavily involved in it over the last ~10 years after doing it recreationally for a time before that. He's the reason my mother and I are raising little boys born with meth in their systems after being exposed to multiple other substances in utero. They are a lot- so different from any other children we've cared for and there are more hurdles to overcome all the time. But, it was us or foster care.
My point is- meth takes away the person you knew. It damages their brain in ways it can't fix. Even if this woman hadn't been using daily anymore, her brain was already fried from her previous heavy use. This was, likely, inevitable with her heavy usage and paranoia. 😞😞
Meth is the absolute worst of the worst. I think it's hard for most people to comprehend just how damaging and completely all-consuming it is in taking over people's minds, behaviors and entire lives unless they have really witnessed it first-hand for themselves.
Classic meth use behavior. I know a few people who were EXTREMELY paranoid while using meth and now that they are all clean, 2 of them still have issues with paranoia at different degrees. And one of those two has been off of meth for almost 5 years.
This is so tragic. It could have been prevented on so many levels. This woman did not receive the mental health care she so much needed. She was obviously insane
Any girl with mental health issues shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Stuff like this would never happen.
@@makaveli4205 well not entirely true. I struggle with bipolar but brought up my daughter with care and love. She is now in law enforcement so has done well x
These sweet defenseless kids didn’t have to suffer so horridly and die if just one of these apparently too-busy lucid adults privy to her behavior and with knowledge about the little girls actually freakin’ considered the awful possibilities of what could transpire in the absence of intervention.
Absolutely absurd and totally preventable.
How did nobody look out for those children when they knew how delusional the Monica was? She wasn't silent about it at all. That is absolutely horrifying.
i was thinking same thing. her boyfriend should have spoken up. she was
very vocal about her delusions to him.
@@pennywagner1608 absolutely. It's insane that he just let it lie.
this is one of the very few cases where I think an insanity defense is actually justified and not just an attempt to shirk accountability. I really do think Monica was experiencing severe mental health symptoms and may have legitimately thought she was saving herself and her daughters from a lifetime of abuse and sexual slavery. another thing that makes me think so is that her suicide attempt was legitimate with regard to the severity of her injuries and not just some cat scratches on the wrist like we see in a lot of other people who kill their children (or anyone, really), "attempt" to kill themselves, and then say it's bc they were mentally ill. I think you can lay blame at the feet of multiple people here, and I think those poor adorable little girls absolutely could have been spared their fate if even ONE person who was aware of Monica's deteriorating mental health had alerted the proper authorities. I can't even imagine how confused and terrified these girls were in their final moments 😔😔
and happens more than broadcast too all the missing children cases
I think some of the family members need to be charged. They knew this lady was on drugs and absolutely crazy, so why didn’t anybody step in and save these poor little girls
My daughter is doing some kind of drugs. She says Marijuana only, but i am not sure I believe that. But she said stuff like that all the time, I need a break, these kids are making me crazy, I was worried about my grandkids so I told her I will take them and she signed them over. I am extremely grateful 🙏 I don't know what she might have been capable of..but I am so glad I never have to find out, I have since heard horrible secrets that the kids let slip out when they are in therapy and I have a good enough case. She will never get them away from me😊
Thank God 🙏 for you
I hate drugs. I can’t imagine how you’ve suffered, except that we have suffered with a family member who was deeply addicted. Good for you stepping up and taking your grandkids, we had good people in our family that stepped up and took care of my niece and nephew. I pray for your daughter, and I pray she gets clean. My nephew is five years clean now his kids are nearly grown, and he pays a prize for what he did you take good care of those girls now God bless.
Your grandbabies are totally Blessed to have you , the world needs more ppl like u, so thankful u stepped in ❤ God Bless You ❤
That “she’ll never get them away from me” is scary to me! Makes it sound like you are manipulating your daughter cus you want them for yourself and to raise them “your way”…If she’s just smoking pot, you’re being dramatic. Newsflash: pot is legal in most states, and for a reason! Alcohol is worse than weed! “The kids let a few things slip out”…yeah idk about that. Kids say things, and therapists will say things so you continue to bring them. You may be hearing what you want to hear. There is no grandparent rights in most states, and temporary custody doesn’t mean “forever”. If she signed them over temporarily to get herself stable, and she does good for herself, she deserves her kids back. I can’t stand a person that is that selfish to keep the kids away from their parents just cus they think they can do better. Then you got the other grandparents that just want control and they use every little reason to manipulate the courts so they never get their kids back. If your daughter is that messed up, then great that you helped…but if you’re doing it to be selfish, then shame on you.
Idk you, her, or the kids. But what’s best for the kids isn’t always keeping them from their mother. I’ve seen this too many times, I hope your daughter fights to do things right and gets them back. You should want them with their mother (if she’s in the right state of mind).
I mean seriously, what mom hasn’t said “I need a break”, “these kids are driving me crazy”? I can’t name one mom that hasn’t said that. A simple night or two a week of watching them may have really done her some good. It takes a village…we all need support. That “she’ll never get them away from me”…that’s not supporting your daughter. Don’t just help the kids, help your daughter too! You raised her and now you wanna raise her kids. Are her kids gonna end up the same as her? I’m not usually one to blame the parents, s h I t happens. Life happens. But what makes you think you can do better with these ones than she can? Cus you don’t smoke weed? That’s silly! And assuming she’s on something else is just that…assuming! You didn’t even get proof. Idk the whole situation, but my point is we can’t assume things without proof. And the few things you mentioned isn’t reason enough to take someone’s kids.
She signed them over tho, she’ll have to deal with the consequences. I just hope you’re doing it for more legit reasons than are listed here. And I hope she understood what she was doing. I certainly hope the kids are in a good place and for the right reasons most of all! If you did it for the right reasons and your daughter agrees they’re in a better place, I hope she’s very thankful for your help!
After listening to you talk about this Rachel up to about 35/36 minutes, I was convinced that Monica really was suffering from some sort of insanity along with paranoia, delusions and schizophrenia which led her to carry out these heinous crimes. But then you started to talk about her being coherent for a few days before the murders, showing text messages that indicated that she was ok and seemed to be quite sane. So now I'm left totally confused as to whether she was or was not losing her mind. But the tragicness of this whole nightmare was that two beautiful little girls lost their lives and knew what was happening to them. They were far too young to know their mummy wasn't right but couldn't say or do anything about it. But there were loads of adults around who couldve done a lot more to ensure this didnt happen. Where were they and what portion of the blame can be directed at them. When it cones to the death of children, anybody really, then those people who ignore the situation are just as guilty as the perpetrator who carried the crime out. SIHP Lily & Tory 🧸🧸
This is wat iam thinking also
Why didn’t anyone see that this woman was in serious need of help
Right? It’s bizarre that she was “texting incoherently“ and telling people about her paranoia and mostly it seemed they were unfazed… so was she like this often because of drugs so they didn’t pay it any attention or were they just missing the signs..? If she was honestly that delusional because of a mental health condition which caused her to hallucinate and not know what she was doing then I think she should be in a hospital but if she was paranoid and delusional due to meth use… then she deserves to be in jail. I also think that it’s odd that she remembers certain things and is able to explain why she said certain things are acted a certain way when she was supposedly incoherent and not in control of her mental functions. Please any people with children… please don’t use meth.
It sounds like she already had mental health issues and they were never treated then the other drugs etc on top would only make someone worse no drugs found in her system at the time of the killings almost feel like another family failed children dead a mother who clearly needed help people like her own friends ignored them instead of helping her kids get out of that environment this one makes me feel sad because those babies are gone forever now and they didn’t deserve this
And (I’m just nearing the end) she definitely was telling her husband I need help like maybe she was saying she was leaving the kids to use meth to make her husband come home
Thus case is so sad on so many levels. First and formost, those poor little babies !! I cant imagine how scared they must have been. Then I feel sadness for the mother as she clearly had serious mental issues and she was failed by everyone. This country is quick to lock up rhe mentally ill in a prison system where they reveive no mental health care. She clearly was out of her mind at the time of the crime and she also tried to kill herself, which flies in the face of rhe prosecution's theory.
I am a crisis therapist and I wish someone had called police or for a welfare check. While it is not easy to involuntarily commit someone (at least in my state), I do think she would have qualified. Such a tragic case. Rest easy to those sweet baby girls
This is so heartbreaking. Thank you for giving victims a voice. Thank you for all the work you do for your channel.
That's unbelievably sad. It's sad that people with mental health issues don't get the help they need and it's even more sad that their children suffer so much at the hands of the people who are supposed to protect them.
Agreed. Sad situation for everyone involved.
YEAH SOC SER AND PSY IGNORED MULTIPLE REPORTS BY MY FRIENDS AND I BEGGED FOR HELP NOTHING HAPPENED TILL SOMEONE TOOK ME TO EMERGENCY SORRY SZ SINGLE MUM AM IN HOS ON MORPHINE W DRIPS IN BOTH ARMS GOING TO REST HOPE PPL READ MY COMMENTS IS HARD TO TYPE
@@moonbeampunkweazel3294how are you doing? I hope things are looking up for you. I find it very hard being a mother with mental health issues. I feel like most of the time I feel I must pretend everything is fine for fear of ppl trying to take my kids. If I ever had a thought of hurting my kids I would be the first one to call for help. These kids are my life and truly the reason that I wake up every day. I am thinking of you and sending positive vibes and love your way. We need to be kinder to ourselves and seek out the help we need without fear of judgement or contempt. Our children deserve the best version of us that we can possibly be. Hang in there. ❤❤
I can't understand why anyone mentally ill would ever be allowed to have custody in the first place. Taking chances with little children's lives is cruel and wrong
This happens a lot. People know the parents arent fit but no one wants to take the responsibilities of the children so they all turn their head the other way.
This is such a tragic story, so very preventable if people had paid closer attention. I hate that just because a mom says she needs some "me time" it gets so much scrutiny, most of the time by those that either have NO children or have ready made babysitting threw family or friends. I have been a single mom of an Autistic child for 19 years and have had exactly 2 hours of me time in that time, I am not complaing I love my son, but at times I would like a little break just to recharge and remind myself that I am more than just a mom.
I ama single mum to a daughter with no diagnosed issues and I find it hard enough! I think you’re amazing. I hope there is respite available for you soon.
This is so well said! Mom of two kiddos one autistic 12 year old. I can imagine that Twins are hard. Not that it excuses her but can imagine needing me time.
@@KelliGrayoffroadummm I'm pretty sure the fact that she was delusional and in active psychosis that it _should_ excuse her.
I agree with yall. I think if you went through any mothers text messages you’d find a couple “damn I wish I had an hour/day/night/week/month to myself.” This point in her case is irrelevant in my opinion!
She belongs in a mental institution, not in jail
i feel like were a little past that since she killed her children
@@maria-gh5rvRight.. but she did that _because_ she’s mentally ill..
Rachel, doesn’t the hospital test babies after they are born? I thought I heard this. Because if the twins were positive for drugs social services should have taken the kids away from her.
I believe that’s only if they’re suspicious that you’re using drugs. As far as I remember, my 3 kids were never tested. I think only if the baby shows symptoms of withdrawal or if the mom is acting like she’s using or admits to using. I’m definitely not 100% sure, but that’s how I remember from when I had kids 15-20 years ago in CA.
I actually just watched another tragic child abuse and murder case on a different channel this morning and the child was born with 2 substances in his system, removed from the parent’s home and then eventually given back. Social Services was continually involved with this child and failed him miserably 😭💔😞
I’m not sure what the laws are in other states, but in MS babies are only tested if the mom fails a drug screen. The mom is automatically tested when she’s admitted into L&D. And even if the baby comes up negative, just the presence in the mom’s system is enough for CPS to open a case but baby will remain with mom until either she’s deemed unfit or the case is closed. Now if baby does test positive, it’s an automatic removal. The doctors and hospitals here work directly in conjunction with CPS.
@@deddinside80 ty
@@kellygrubbs915 they normally do. So unfortunate.
Sad story but it's too easy to judge. Mental illness has a longggggg way to go before people can truly understand
I write horror stories with friends sometimes. Nothing alarming there i think
I think you absolutely nailed it-humans cannot handle the stress and must be out of their minds to kill. In this case, everyone saw it coming and no one did anything. I wish there were a way to assign blame to the community at large sometimes for looking the other way, for "not wanting to get involved". As if keeping peace with your neighbors is more important than potentially a child's life.
I wish more people stepped in to help her. I appreciate the one friend who tried to set up counseling for her. But her fiancé not doing anything is concerning.
This is horrifically sad, but this is prob one of the truest stories of pure insanity I’ve ever seen. Wow. It’s sad when people like this get the proper meds and realize what they have done…
There were so many times someone should have called cps, my ex did meth and soooo much in this one is unfortunately familiar.. she very clearly needed rehab and mental health help
Those babies didn't deserve any of that.. my heart hurts for those girls and those trapped in similar situations because no one deserves that.
I've used meth a handful of times and I can tell you even when you're coming down off of it holy shit the delusions are absolutely insane. You will see people that aren't there doing shit they aren't doing. I had people singing to me in full choirs
You are clearly missing the background of deep abuse with the mother. She did not abuse drugs, cut herself and become a psychopath for no reason. She was cutting and harming herself as a young person because she was going through a lot of pain. And as usual, the mental health industry was a fail. You need to do a lot of background on the perpetrators. I am not giving excuses for what was committed, but they may have gone through similar abuse that society ignores and then attacks the future victim, which Continues the cycle of abuse. I had a horrific background at the hands of my parents and I am currently trying to come to terms with that. I am sixty years old and my childhood was a nightmare. But somehow I never wanted to harm my children. I did not use my horrific background as an excuse to harm my children or other people. I don't know what makes me different from other people. I do attribute the love to god.
I am about halfway in to this story and the mom sounds bipolar.😢
My goodness, the way these babies died is unimaginable 💔
I fully believe Monica was “insane” and did all of this believing it was what was needed to save her and the girls. This was the tragic culmination of a life of mental disorders, wrong treatments, and drug abuse.
A mother sending texts like “the kids are driving me crazy” is imo completely normal and does NOT mean the mother genuinely wants her kids gone or dead. It’s a “heat of the moment” type comment. Motherhood is hard af, I can’t imagine doing it alone with twin toddlers away from all my family and support systems.
I also believe that starting to use drugs like meth is a choice, and much like drunkenness doesn’t let you off the hook, other drugs shouldn’t, either. She is where she should be.
May it be, that, if one is not willing or able to pay for psychiatric and pharmacological help, there is nothing to do but hoping that no one get hurt?
Should she get the death penalty?
I hope if my mental health was to decline so drastically, those around me intervene and institutionalize me.
I rarely believe that a defendant is legally insane and I don't think Monica was. So I think justice was served in this case. However, I do believe that some people (Andrea Yates comes to mind) are legally insane and should not be held criminally responsible for their actions. With that said, the little girls did not deserve what happened to them. My heart goes out to their father and everyone else who loved them.
So in those cases where you believe the murderer should not be held criminally responsible, what do you think should happen to them?
I injured my Achilles tendon as a child and couldn't walk normally for over a year. It was incredibly painful. I can't believe anybody would saw through their own tendons without being a complete nut
I feel when you take drugs you are responsible for what you do yes ahe is quilty. You can't use drugs as an excuse. Those poor babies.
I think so too.
Please don't give out your psychological beliefs or "facts". They are incorrect.
It’s aching to listen to but their stories need to be told and these sweet babies not forgotten. I always wish I knew these people with kids to just scoop them up and take them away when there are clear signs they are in danger. I feel bad for the father, but all of these people knew and didn’t step in, didn’t get her help when she needed and just because you don’t “think” these things will happen step up anyway because it’s POSSIBLE as we see!!! RIP sweet angels
It was if she was so worried that he wanted to kill her and harm her children Why didn't she pack her things and moved back home with her kids? And if she was so worried, he was going to harm her. Why not leave him break off the engagement? And then go back home where you feel safest? That is the most insane thing to me. I'm surprised she put up with her crazy delusions. And then she turned out to be the murderer. If she was having such a hard time adjusting maybe she shouldn't have found a therapist to talk to. Maybe this could have all been avoided
Or no, might I add? She was so worried he was gonna try to kill or harm her. But then got mad at him for not coming straight home from one worktrip and having to go to another worktrip for 10 days in Alaska. If she was actually so worried, he was trying to harm or kill her. Then why was she upset with him for not coming home? If I thought the person I loved was trying to kill me. I'd want them to stay away when the work trip as long as possible
I was with you girl til near the end. You obviously need to get educated a bit more regarding mental illness. Also, if she wanted to be rid of the kids and was in her right mind why wouldnt she give them to the grandmother who offered to take them? If she were in her right mind then she would know that she wouldnt "be free" after she killed them especially in the way that she did. You contradict yourself several times regarding your opinions on this case.
Oh and the father that was crying about them? How long had it been since he had bothered to make an effort to see them?
The reason you say so many times that you don't understand and cant figure out why, etc.is because you dont understand mental illness. Are you trying to say that she wanted to cause them horrible pain and murdered them for fun? Because all taken together the things you say makes no sense. Sorry but this video makes me feel differently about your opinions regarding these cases.
the insanity plea is not a bad thing. when you "win" a case with an insanity defense, it's not like you get let back out on the street, no harm no foul, if it's obvious you did the crime. Generally you get thrown into a criminal mental hospital indefinitely - likely the rest of your life - and many have said that such hospitals are even worse than prison in some regards.
I agree that whether or not you're sane or insane there should be consequences for your actions.. but with the insanity plea, there ARE consequences. We legally find that they can't be held responsible due to diminished mental capacity.. but that doesn't mean they don't get sent off to an institution, often for the rest of their lives.
WHY didn't ANY of the people around her or interacted with her call the police? I'm sorry but if I even had a neighbor acting in this way I would call the police to have the police at least come and talk to her to find out if she was ok. She had 2 baby girls that had to be going through stress, couldn't anyone even see that? This is one if the most awful things I have EVER heard of. These poor little girls KNEW their mommy was hurting them...OMG...I cant even wrap my mind around just how horrifying that would of been.
She Was clearly going through a mental outbreak and NOBODY did anything to help her and the twins. So the worse happens... And then to cover up everybody's fault, they incarcerate the sick woman! Congratulations!!!!
I think everyone should consider the fact that she was self-harming at the age of 12, that is not normal .There was either some serious mental health issues already or she was being abused . I also would like to ask where was the father Michael? There is no mention of h.visiting while all of this was going on. Also keep in mind there is no history of abuse prior to these horrible murders. It's easy to judge Monica because this is such a horrible crime. However if there was ever a case of being acting out because of a mental disorder this is clearly it. I don't think she should get off without serving se kind of sentence but the want clearly is not sane she never has.jer children before this and she was self having before she was a teenager, that is rare. Everyone that knew she was unstable and did nothing also played a role in letting her and the children down. I .a nurse of 30 years with psych experience, this want and her chdrem we're in a crisis situation. I wish someone had stepped in. My heart goes out to all involved.
But she really tried to kill herself so how was killing her kids going to give her the break you say she so desperately needed???
I’ve never heard about this horrific case.😢 So 1st off thank you for this vid/doc. Those beautiful innocent babies. Like Rachel stated, imagine how they felt in that moment! Especially when one sees their own mother (whom they loved & who was supposed to protect them) viciously attacking (understatement) their twin sister.🙁 Those innocent little girls went through something that we could never imagine. Idk, but I feel she did want to continue using, instead of being a mother. Sure I feel she had mental illness. However… she was using whilst being a mom. That’s never okay. Thanks for sharing this case Rachel. Have a blessed night.❤️&✌️
Oh my. Those poor babies. The poor mother she had totally lost her mind. Why was nothing done to help her. There were so many warning signs. So many people knew she’s was talking and acting weirdly. Soso tragic and sad.
I believe that she did not use any guns was because it was to loud. using a sword is quiet . no one will come running to help...she knew what she was doing. REST IN PEACE BABY GIRLS
I feel sorry for the boyfriend.. two mentally ill women in row. I think she was angry that he wouldn’t come home and wanted him to ‘pay’.
She knew what she did was wrong or she wouldn’t have set the fire.
Finally.. I am sure long term drug use played a role. But, as you said, totally voluntary and not an excuse. Jury made the right decision, and you are spot on!
I agree...I left my ex and stayed in a shelter. He wanted me to come home and spray painted my condo, smashed my TV and threatened to do more things. He was paranoid violent and on meth. He sent me pictures of what he did along with more threats. Meth causes some delusions but isn't the cause of everything he did. He chose to bc he wanted his way....I agree with you that she wanted him to come back and did this in combination with her psychosis. Psychosis and wanting her own way
Hi Rachel! I heard this case before, but i don t know the case in deep like you will do now with me.
45 min is the just time I have before
I go out to my day.
Thanks to be there to let theses childrens never to been forgotten.
How do these kids end up with mamas like buffalo bill
Adhd and depression can coexist. Also, adhd can exasperate and increase depression symptoms.
Very true. I pointed out the misdiagnosis aspect to highlight how this happens for this specific case
So tragic 😔
No one should be getting away with murder because they were drunk or on drugs. PERIOD.
Agreed. It’s not an excuse
I keep getting side tracked and have had to watch this one 6 times lol you're welcome 😊 😂
My gosh where was all these people she was texting. It was clear that she was messed up and should not be able to have those girls. Where was the dad why didn't he fight for custody if he knew she was nuts, where was her friend and her boyfriend and his mom ,, they knew she was alone with those babies why didn't they get them help or something... obviously she is to blame but dang it man when someone shows you they have lost their grip on reality listen to them
the violence in this crime can she maybe hated her kids ? i think Monica knew exactly what she did. Those poor chilrden. 😢
Before 2005 doctors would not diagnoise psychotic disorders, they said they couldnt until adulthood (before studies)
How the hell does someone cut their Achilles heel! 🤯
Monica obviously should have realized she couldnt handle a kid let alone two kids because she wasnt mentally capable of taking her self or trusting other people i dont get why no one stepped in and got social services invovled this is truly heartbreaking to me. Not to be mean but i hope she rots in prison or a mental institution for the rest of her life because these children didnt deserve to die and be tortured because of her.
This time I blame the family and DFS!!! They should have gotten her help!!! Everyone failed all 3 of them!!!
How do you even physically do that to your own Achilles tendons??
I DO understand that although the insanity plee doesn't usually apply or work, it is tried WAY TOO often!!! However, I don't understand how it is often dismissed when there is one time of rationality!!! My thoughts are.....there was a time a few years back that I was was severely depressed and often had suicidal thoughts!!! The fact that I am texting I didn't commit to harming myself!!!! However that doesn't mean I wasn't suicidal and depressed!!!! That woman did many things that seemed to fit thei diagnosis of insanity!!???
I really got into your story telling and the in depth details but such a sad story what she did there's absolutely no excuse.
She’s guilty. You can’t simultaneously be too crazy to know it’s wrong to kill your kids and know you need to act normal with your man so he doesn’t know you’re planning murder/suicide
Mental health definitely played in, but she wasn’t legally insane
22:25 I'm sorry I know I'm only half way through but after ALL t this strange behavior and at least 3 people VERY close to her have witnessed, not counting however many strangers/neighbors observed this off behavior and NO ONE calls for a check on the twin girls?? None of these people are worried that this incoherent woman just MAYBE isn't doing so well l? Which then would lead any rational person to think the kids aren't being cared for because ummm idk the lady can't even care for her self at this point?!
So many people let these poor girls down.
MAN ,, I Dont know what to make of this one ,, if she just wanted to be free of the kids why n earth would she kill them and herself in such an unbelieveably long drawn out and painful way ,, she could have just shot them and herself ,, and the fact that she thought she was going to burn all the evidence , doesent make sence why shed Buther herself and more importantly those two little angels ,, youd HAVE To be totally out of your mind with paranoia and delusional with fear and dread ,, to commit such a horiffic act ,, and the fact that she wasent under the influence at the time not even alchohol , ive had issues with addiction in the past and to not have drugs in your system means she hadent done any for at least FOUR Days ,, im really torn on this one Rachie ...
Yeah idk mental illness is real and if you have never experienced a black out or disassociated…you shouldn’t speak on it. A sword? Yeah no, she could party with them or give them, she was clearly ill, not cool. I hope you don’t experience it and people talk about you.
It's a bit creepy how much you and her favor on the thumbnail for this video 😮 Anyone else notice ??
You're still gorgeous of course ! It just caught my attention.
So many people saw signs and ignored them.
Question: What was Monica's home life like at home that may have led to her actions? Was that ever looked into? Oh those poor babies. So many people could have intervened and saved those poor sweethearts. The saying "see something say something" applies here. Can you imagine what those babies thought with mom killing them? Makes me sick 🤮😡. No reason for them to have to die. Was the fire alarm set to cover up their screams. Drugs like mushrooms can really mess up your brain. If LSD was used, you can have flashbacks for years to come. Even if she felt she needed to kill her children, it should not have to have been that violent. If she had the ability to think clearly enough to act normal to Robert. Then she should have understood what she was doing. I do wonder about mental status with hacking herself so badly, can not imagine her thinking she would be free and party. Can she even walk or use the hand with the severed tendon? If not, she has a terrible life ahead of her.
She killed them because she wanted them dead, period. Don't want to hear any excuses!
Agreed. No excuses will ever make up for what she did.
Drugs can absolutely cause psychotic breaks for what it’s worth. Even if she was only using once a week. You can use enough in one day to keep you up for days. Unfortunately I know from personal experience…long before I had kids. Haven’t touched those drugs in many many years and never will. My kids are too precious. Such a sad and tragic story.
I’m baffled as to how you think a Mother who is fed up & misses the freedom pre-kids is guilty for wanting that life, despite the fact this woman was clearly at death’s door in a very REAL suicide attempt?! Please tell me how her actions would have led to free nights partying if she was realistically going to be laid up in a morgue?!
Also, you thought the last case warranted discussion on the possibility of her being insane and you believing this could be true, to having zero empathy for this woman’s clear delusions and paranoia.
I really hope you don’t work in a mental health field and I’m questioning whether you’re suitable for covering these sort of cases :(
Reading way too much into these videos and being a jerk on top of that. Have you encountered many people in these fields? I have and the bar ain’t always that high, let’s just say. Rachel would definitely be on the very high portion of the spectrum as far as intelligence and perceptiveness in *many* psych settings in this country.
Also, I have witnessed plenty of psychotic episodes where ZERO implied or real violence was spoken of or enacted upon others, including children. Why do we reflexively lump violent psychotic offenders with the majority of those with schizophrenia, schizoaffective, delusional disorder, etc. who (shockers) DON’T act violently. And why is endless slack cut for people who *know* full well they have serious psychological disorders even quite early on but still insist upon bearing children, having custody for & caring for those children, and otherwise endangering & neglecting them, etc.?! (That goes for incompetent parents in general too.)
Have to disagree with u about certain drugs she was addict of meth and have severe mental health problems and was miss diagnosed given more meds that change ur brain chemistry, she was clearly out of her mind when she did this and comparing mushrooms and weed to meth is ridiculous. She needs severe mental healthcare. Not jail. She shouldn’t be let out for a while but she needs extensive care. And the father of those girls saw that she wasn’t all there and let her go with the kids. He should’ve took custody of them too many people saw what was coming and did nothing.
This poor woman obviously needed help. She was seriously mentally impaired and misdiagnosed. I don’t agree with your harsh statements about her, and I also don’t think you really know what you’re talking about when it comes to mental illness. Please try to educate yourself well on such a serious topic before you put your opinions out there. There’s too much hurt and hate in this country due to ignorance about this topic. This crime as well as many others could have been prevented if the people in her life had paid attention and gotten her the help she needed
Ya I dont care if she was "insane or on drugs", she murdered and so she should go away for that. Period. Why did so many people fail these kids when she was clearly going off the rail?
With all her mental issues/drug taking why didn't the father fight like hell for custody? The courts are also too quick to award custody to the mother
i don’t know. i can’t help but feel for monica; even she has never had a proper chance in life by being addicted to drugs since the age of 12. she shouldn’t have been allowed to care for her children, they should’ve been given to the father or someone else. it’s just so tragic. she needs help, not LWOP but that’s just my opinion. may the girls rest in peace 🕊️