I was able to complete this mission with the loss of 1 F-4. A couple of things to keep in mind 1) In this game if you get into a ship to ship missile fight, the Americans will lose against the Soviets almost every time. 2) If you are detected by a submarine, that data is instantly transmitted to every asset in the fleet. What I did was set my task force to 1/3 ahead and send out a bunch of Sea Sprites to set up a sonobuoy picket. While the Sea Sprites were dropping buoys, I sent the F-4s at full afterburner to intercept the Tupolev. I also sent my flight of A-6s and the P-3 with Harpoons at full speed to positions on either side of the soviet formation at a range of 60 nm. By the time the Tupolev was taken care of, my helicopters had a sound contact which was quickly prosecuted. At this point, I sent my sub towards the Soviet formation at high speed and used the F-4s to take out radar picket helos and clear a corridor of any ASW assets. When the A-6s and P-3 were in firing position, I dumped everything I had from two directions on the Kirov and launched a salvo of Harpoons from my sub. The initial salvo resulted in the sinking of the Kirov and two escorts. After this, I maneuvered the sub to within 10 nm of the remainder of the formation and picked off most of the remaining vessels. My SAG then mopped up any resistance with a long range salvo of Harpoons.
The technology portrayed in this game makes it very clear why the US went all-in on the Aegis+VLS combo, nixing pretty much everything else just as soon as there were enough hulls to even begin to do it, even though this left CSGs somewhat short of ASW helicopters for a while. (And I think these were actually the main reason the Perrys hung around as long as they did) EDIT: if you install the NTU mod, you can see the results - it goes from a single Kirov usually being able to sink or cripple most of a CSG, to a pair of Kirovs having trouble getting a hit on a lone Ticonderoga. Aegis was a *huge* game-changer.
Rear Admiral Armchair thinks: Leave the formation on course to the red fleet. But tighten them up. The foremost Perry must come back so they share the umbrella. Go Surface/Air Search as you start the scenario, because you are obviously made. Draw the 80nm circle on the ship with the SM-ER's and as soon as you see one enter that circle, command two missiles from that ship per AntiShipMissile. I think the weapons tight engagment is shorter. Maybe even that TU wanders in to that circle if you keep the fleet on course to the reds. Would also send the Jackosonville full speed below the layer and send 4 mk48's towards the Red's as soon as you can. They won't hit, but they have certainly something to think about. TL;DR: Sometimes offense, is the best defense. Really enjoyed your SeaPower content so far.
Thanks for playing! This mission is the weakest in the campaign as balance factors have changed off and on since release -- during Beta, Kirov would only rarely fire off more than 4-6 Granits at a time which made the air defense a lot easier. In testing I still usually lost either Crommelin or Goldsborough. This one is designed to be challenging and present the player with some not so fun decisions. One other thing some commenters have mentioned is the hit chance of Harpoons has seemed to change off and on throughout release which has caused issues in this one too. I may rework it before releasing the final 5 missions either way. Cheers
well certainly the scenario is anything but balanced...yet I loved it!!!!. I won't spoil what happened in my case, as my own video about this fight I'll upload to my channel tomorrow, but other than the game doing me dirty (there seems to me some kind of bug that prevents some planes from shooting when ordered, I had real issues getting my Intruders to launch their harpoons), I had a blast playing this one.
@@jeffliick1690 actually, I chose to make it public already. No reason to wait until tomorrow. It's in my channel, it's only part 1 of 2, however. Enjoy it.
@@Stealth17Gaming This scenario is broken, not challanging. Your missiles are always missing or going for chaf while their are absolutely pinpoint. Feels like the fleet is just distraction and the sub is what matters. Would not be surprised if torps would also fall for chaf in this scenario😂
@@adamdante7306 I can't agree. And I'll be posting a video that proves why I can't agree by tomorrow. I don't really know why everyone is complaining about harpoons missing or going for chaff all the time...it really never seems to be the case for me, and I have a good number of Sea Power videos that pretty much prove my point. I guess luck plays a factor. Who knows.
I got even worst results than you, Scott was sunk by Granit every time, and the kirov intercepted 26 harpoons, and 4 Mk 48 launched at it like piece of cake in the 7th attempt. Even got my sub in trouble. I'm really bad at this one😅. Nice Content ! Keep up !!
the RNG with this game is rediculous. I've had a Tico intercept everything without getting damaged in one run, and another run missing every interceptors.
Did this mission just today, and surprisingly did it first try without much trouble contrary to alot of other people here. The Soviet battlegroup never fired on me and I actually noticed that the battlegroup all had their radars off meaning I was just essentially hidden the entire time. Boys in the f4's flew alot of daring missions close to the battlegroup to intercept their helicopters and planes, nearly getting hit by a bunch of missiles in the process Decided to put all my eggs in basket and essentially fired nearly all my available harpoons at the soviets in a coordinated attack by all my assets in an attempt to just completely overwhelm their air defenses. I would have killed the Kirov in that strike but for some reason the harpoons targeting system decided to go for the supply ship at the back as they were literally diving to hit the Kirov, making miss out on maybe like seven hits. Finished off the three ships left with any leftover harpoons and as well torpedoes from the Jacksonville, and the scenario was done. Might have to replay this because it seems like a lot of other people had different experiences getting detected
I managed to beat this mission on the 2nd try: 1. Make USS Scott leave formation and flank speed GTFO. Keep it in EMCON but weapons free. 2. Use the SSN to target the Kirov, fire 4 harpoons and run. I got lucky and managed to hit once. 3. Use the F-4s to target the enemy aircraft and helos. Bring the AWACS down to 20000 feet so it can detect the Shipwrecks in their terminal dive. 4. Set up the ASuW P-3 and A-6's for a coordinated attack, make sure to stay out of the Kirov's S-300 range. 5. Pray that not all your screening ships die. I managed to keep the CG and DDG but lost the FFG. I think the nearby merchant ship helped to soak up some missiles too lol. 6. Use ALL your AGM-84 on the Kirov, hopefully they don't retarget. If possible coordinate this strike with the SSN. 7. Use your remaining RGM-84, SM, and torpedoes to mop up survivors. Abit cheesy, but gotta do what you gotta do... I got rekt the first time I played, spawning within detection range of the Soviet radar plane really sucks
I failed this mission multiple times like you did trying to get away to buy time. Finally, I tried crawling forward EMCON with the ships at a slow pace, downed the ASW with my F4s, sunk the sub, moved my A6s behind, and then unleashed hell all at once. 20 Harpoons at the Kirov and then weapons free. Devastating and didn't lose a thing. Getting the ships in range without getting detected is critical.
Let's compare what percentage of the Harpoons were intercepted in one of the previous scenarios by the russian ships (I'd say about 80%), and how hard it is to intercept a Shipwreck. The Shipwreck is a gigantic missile that should be easier to track and hit, while Harpoon is a pretty small target and it flies lower. I still maintain the AI has overpowered AA capabilities. Also, Shipwrecks never go for chaff, whereas Harpoons do in at least 40% of cases. Plus, the damage control parties don't work in this game. The US Navy has traditionally been known for its amazing damage control skills, but here it just doesn't matter. Every ship that gets hit, sinks.
As a sailor, I agree with the DC parties skills. This makes it feel like the DC boys haven't done a single training since bootcamp and their first time fighting a fire.
@darthrevan454 exactly! US Navy has a track record of even being able to save ships that had their whole bow blown off, like the USS New Orleans, which sailed to Australia backwards :) here, they don't seem to be doing anything at all.
Even if the shipwreck is a gigantic missile, it has plenty of systems designed to avoid being shot down, for example, it has defensive ECM, its armored against CWIS and missile fragments, it has built in evasive patterns to avoid interception, it's supersonic. Comparing that to a harpoon that has no armor, no ECM and flies at a very brisk pace of around 500knots you can see why it's much easier to intercept, like it or not soviet and (nowadays) russian missile tech is vastly superior to US missile tech
@@sheogorath979Well, admittedly that’s very dependent on the type of missile. The Anti ship missile tech gap has significantly narrowed over the years and the US generally has an air to air missile advantage
Thanks so much for creating this! So much fun, lol. I usually change formation to put the Belknap on point, to SM-2 the Bear and all the Helixs. The first time I finished this I emptied everyone's magazines fighting off Granits, losing Sterett and then Harpooned the escorts to finally sink the Kirov - last man standing! - with gunfire from the Kidd and the Charlie can. Glorious. Poor old Skipjack's Mk 48s couldn't acquire anything? haha
I actually managed to survive without any losses, just a damaged ship - I had a coordinated A-3 and Submarine harpoon strike that took out the Kirov and the Udaloy; then had the P-3 hit the logi ship and attempt to hit the gun boat (didn't work); and then reloaded the sub to hit the two survivors. The reason they can spot you is via the submarine that's close to your fleet
Rule of thumbing for defending, let the enemy come to you. The conga line you suggested is an excellent example of a fighting withdrawal to inflict damage as you regroup and consolidate with other forces such as your CAP. The bomber is spotting for the enemy fleet so you definitely need to risk the safety of your air cover to shoot that thing down and blind the enemy. The submarine hasn't even been utilized and is your primary striking force to kill the Kirov. Make a steady approach to the fleet with it and if you get lucky, you can detect the Soviet sub since they generally are pretty noisy if they are screening for the surface force. Dog leg your torpedo attack to confuse the enemy and take down the ASW ships first before striking at the Kirov.
I wish such a game as Seapower existed set in the 1930's, the 1940's and 1950/60's. The level of simulation and control would be amazing in the Steam And Steel Gun age plus the power of prop aircraft carriers. I know UAD and other games exist but I want something exactly like sea power or War on the sea with this level of sim and customisation in terms of what units you've got.
Does the game include reconnaissance satellites? Even if Cold War satellites didn’t provide continuous real-time information, the short glimpses of information they did provide would be an interesting game dynamic.
I think the problem may be w/ the way the scenario sets up the way the US/NATO fights. The US should have way more air assets. And in 1985, better than Phantoms. The USN doctrine assumes air superitority and that aircraft will be the primary offensive weapon. The aircraft keeping the Soviets at arms length outside of their missile range and blinded. That Panama scenario had the Soviets fighting, w/ thier carrier, like a US CVBG. Doing exactly what the USN trains to do. Keeping the bad guys outta their missile range while systematically hammering them w/ strike aircraft.
The F-4s didn't fire their AIM-9Js because they're rear aspect missiles only. They need to be behind the target before they can fire, and by the time the plane turned around, the missile was out of range.
I'd be interested in seeing the same scenarios run in CMO. See how they differ. Or I might just _do_ the scenario in CMO to see how it works differently.
Just played this mission today. Was really excellent. Found out about the Charlie SSGN the hard way, though got lucky and dodged the wake homers and got it with some helos but was a close one. Used the merchant as a Shipwreck Sponge, lost one ship, ran out of the good SM2 ERs but managed to survive. Good ole Jacksonville saved the day and wrecked the Soviet Fleet. Real fun mission. Good challenge.
Falklands. The RN placed a frigate 10 miles towards the threat origin than the rest of the formation to act as a missile sponge. They lost the ship but every other ship including a Light Carrier and a marine landing ship was untouched
SN-19s in this game are like if a 9 year old tankie described soviet missles "and they are super fast, and super smart, and they never fall for chaff, and and they are so fast that missles can't hit them, and and they can't be shot down with bullets, and they um have infinite range." As for recommendations I'd try that conga line idea. IF you can get in formation in time and if the aforementioned 9 year old's missles don't just decide to bypass the rear ship and keep going into more of them. As for winning the scenario? I think it's all RNG. The Kirov can probably defend herself against all your aerial and subsurface harpoons on her own, not even taking in account the rest of the group. Even with your surface group I doubt you could launch enough of them fast enough that they wont just be shot down. So the only thing I can think of is torpedo's and that is entirely RNG with the RBUs and with that formation there are a LOT of them.
Going broadside should be avoided. Better to sail away or towards the missle. Loss of one CIWS battery is worth a smaller radar and physical profile. Also helps minimize damage for anything below Shipwreck size.
I did it yesterday. First try went as yours, I found a sub. Now I knew what to expect and turned my SAG around (like you did). Went only ahead 1/3rd all the time and my SAG was never attacked. I rushed my F4 to intercept the enemy ASW plane and afterwards hit the deck and let them plink the helicopters. I now knew where the enemy sub was, so I took it out without much trouble. Meanwhile I tried a Harpoon attack from the East with all the A7 plus the P-3C on the Kirov. Not even 1 hit out of all these missiles. Their aerial defense is nuts! My Sub took the risk and went all Flank towards the enemy. I managed to come into 3nm of range and torped the Kirov, the Udaloy and the Kanin. Unfortunately this was also the end of my sub, but afterwards my SAG wiped the floor with the remaining 3 ships. I don´t know why they never shot an ASM at me, maybe the low speed (and EMCOM ofc)? And of course I killed their spotters relatively fast.
You need a specialty ship - a Floating WALL ! 80 feet long, 40 feet high and 20 feet thick, full of ... ?? .. concrete , no that would sink. Cement boats did float, hmmmm.
Something I noticed about the F-4s: I can't get them to shoot Sidewinders while carrying Sparrows. If I specifically order them to attack with the AIM-9 they just ignore that and do nothing. Maybe there's a mechanic I don't understand but when intercepting vampires I have them shoot a salvo of Sparrows at max range, cease fire to stop guiding (they'll miss anyway) repeat and only then will they use their Sidewinders
Interesting tactical scenario but also a totally unrealistic one as far as the fleet staring positions are concerned. Knowing full well the capabilities of the Kirov and its escorts, what fleet admiral would just dumbly order his ships to sail head-on towards the enemy? That would invite suidice. The Kirov SAG with an accompanying Tu-142 literally represents the perfect scenario for them. I'd suggest that the mission needs to start with the US SAG outside of Shipwreck range to at least allow the player some tactical maneuverability. Otherwise this just comes down to missile hit RNG.
The scenario needs to be reworked on how the Red side threatens blue with detection. The key issue is the scenario is not designed to be a war about recon. It cheeses detection of player early on. It is possible to avoid detection but I won't say how to avoid spoilers. The way this mission is designed emphasizes the need to have a contest in the air to determine if player will likely lose or not.
I have tried to beat this mission maybe 7 times and best resoult i got was torpedoing the soviet formation with submarine, but by that time, all my ships were toast. What worked best was setting my formation in a line so that Scott is in the back and Shipwrecks got spoofed into destroing rest of the formation and then into their sinking wrecks, it still didn't save her tho. Also going flank with Scott EMCOM, while rest of formation blasting radars and going opposite direction worked a little, but Kirov always has one more missile to send. Crippling Kirov with harpoons from submarine worked one time, it was dead in a water, but weapon systems still worked, but that was a lot of luck and only 4 harpoons almost never get through air defences. That might be the best shot at beating this mission still, since there is no other way to attack enemy before they fire missiles and once that happens, it's game over. It was kind of guilty pleasure watching this video.
After 12 attempts I ended up running at 0.1x speed and hyper-microed my missiles. That was enough with good RNG to survive. After that the mission was doable.
The sheer amount of SM1 and SM2 missiles missing feels really wrong. The ineffectiveness of CIWS on all incoming ASMs across multiple attempts seems a bit much as well, as I've heard several others state US CIWS was supposed to be of much higher effectiveness during this era. For the F-4's, I'd recommend setting them to afterburner and 20k altitutde at the beginning and changing the ship formation to use a two-layer sponge, with one sacrificial ship out front, your second least valuable behind that, then everything else behind those two in a relatively close straight line. It may be worth trying to get your helicopter and other air assets immediately low and south in case they're helping to give away your position.
Oh, also, the AIM-7's had a historically poor reputation for accuracy and reliability, but that was primarily based on their early decades and during Vietnam, with the more modern variants in the 1980's improving. Although I believe they were still better than the opposing Soviet R-27 missile of the day. As you noted, they're Fox 1's, so they can only be fired one at a time. One strategy is to fire an AIM-9 to let it seek on its own and then fire an AIM-7 and let it track, then repeat. It should result in being able to engage two targets per salvo for each jet, as long as you workout the intercept to get them at altitude, fast, and turning so they aren't too far behind in pursuit.
Its easier if you draw one 65nm range circle from the enemy group than drawing multiple circle for all your ASuW units. if they are inside the circle they are in range.
Interesting tactics, I reckon arranging your ships so the CIWS can overlap as a last defence, maybe? Like super close formation? Might have to sacrifice one ship to soak the damage. Definitely on the right track with the phantoms. Beyond that, as you said, RNG :')
Of what I can recall from your earlier videos of Sea Power, then it seems the enemy AI have a better chance to intercept your missiles, while your AI has hard time to do it. It is like there is fresh rookie crew on your ships that are up against enemy veterans and battle harden sailors. It is like the modern equivalent of Battle of Drøbak Sound. However, your ships is just the cruiser Blücher and the enermy AI is the Oscarsborg Fortress which is ripping you apart
The way this mission is designed now, I think it’s a Kobayashi Maru mission. The Soviet assets have been spoofed to allow them to dodge and intercept your missiles more easily while your assets have been spoofed to miss more often. The intercept ratio of your missiles on the Shipwrecks is way too low, even without Aegis. I’m curious how others have found Sea Power in comparison to DCS. Which one is more realistic? In DCS, for example, SMs rarely miss (hit ratios of 90% or better).
I see that you struggle with the aircraft as well. When I tell them to attack an enemy they shoot one missle. If they do not hit, they go on a holiday break instead of a pursuit... A/C AI need a lot of work...
i think this mission is not well Balanced. Sorry but Starting direct with Enemy Engagment is not got, you have no Time to get a Defence Position or somthing. This is why i don´t like at this moment the state of the Game for Naval engament. I build my own campaign and is very chellanging to make it possibil and not to easy.
8:35 Watching that single shipwreck get ignored by those SM-2ER’s at altitude, evade like ten SM-1’s and literally brush off that long CIWS burst alone… that’s just cruel. Did you have any defensive ECM on those ships?
@@christopherchartier3017 I think their point is that it's not something you can control in-game, and they're right. DECM is turned on automatically outside of player control.
this game is too easy if you have a carrier or any EW planes in the mission 1. Jam it with EA-6, fly in thier AA bubble under 1000ft so they won't detect you far out 2. pop up after getting in jammer range, they now lost ability to shoot at your EA-6 with SAMs 3. fire a salvo of ASMs 4. ships can now only intercept ASMs with naval guns and CIWS, SAMs now have less range than their main guns, maybe under 4nm range 5. without SAM intercepting missiles out 10+nm maybe 4-8 harpoons will do the job now it's just a problem of those dumb harpoons all going for one targets or going after chaffs
Try the f4js aim 9 using queued orders first on the ssn19s first as they are prority aim 7s u only get one shot because you have to guide. Manually fire sm1 in salvo of 2 from escorts
Hey Stealth! Have you heard of "Scramble!: Squadron Leader"? It's a turn-based Battle of Britain game that you might enjoy. Not sure if it's released yet or just early access, but I've seen a couple other creators cover it!
Lots of people have posted their issues with the balance/performance of the US units and for me the one thing that I am most annoyed about is the CWIS, versus a single missile at a time *espetially* the gigantic shipwrecks they should be shooting them down *almost* every time, instead yours shot them down almost none of the time
My F-4 don't fire their missiles for any reason... This happens even when within range and with the radar activated. Bug? Watching the video I noticed that it doesn't happen to you.
Lmao I can't watch anymore of these videos, the ridiculous nerf to American interceptors is just beyond parody. A non-maneuvering SSN19 on a flat trajectory was missed by 5-7 missiles AND the CWIS. I'm done with this shit and I'm not coming back without a major mechanics overhaul.
The American interceptors suck against SS-N-19s because not a single version of the Standard Missile at this point in time had anti sea-skimmer capability. The first version to include that was in 1988, with the SM-2MR Block 3. Even then, that was only a modified fuze. (It's not known when SMs got proper anti sea-skimmer capability, but it was probably not before the 90s). So, at this point in time, the ONLY missile capable of reliably killing sea-skimmers would be the Sea Sparrow. Nobody is "nerfing" anything. This is just how it was. The US simply hyperfocused on killing high-speed and high-altitude targets such as the Kh-22 (AS-4). Especially since the SS-N-19 was falsely believed to be a high altitude missile by the west during the cold war.
@ryonacrest6178 go watch the video. They weren't just missing at wavetop level, they were missing at 9000 feet all the way to the water. Its fucking laughable.
@@TheNerdForAllSeasons Oh, boo-hoo you child. Don’t like it? Don’t play it. Carry your crybaby ass somewhere else. Ryonacrest is correct, so it seems all you’re doing is bitching and complaining.
Are you out of range or something??? I've noticed in every engagement of yours you always let enemy engage you first regardless of which side you are on. I'm not really sure why it always happens like that but it's frustrating every time lol
In most US (Stealth) v USSR scenarios, the Soviets have a 100-200nm standoff advantage due to their superior anti-ship missiles so it’s semi-regular that the US must be on the defensive first.
Hey Stealth I think you're also falling victim to a bug The Standard Missiles of the Sterret seem to splash just after a few miles, you can see it @9:50 and some other point in the video when youre defending the first wave of SSN's
@tomasjasiunas1911 hmm okay, but i dont think their targets are gone at this point, and it happens consistently through all the tries stealth does at this scenario. Could be at least worth looking into, when trying the scenario again after restarting the game/computer
@@KanJonathan You do know those missiles are armored against CIWS fire, right? I swear, everyone just wants NATO curbstomp power fantasies in these games. "I should be able to shoot down every single missile with impunity"
![Defending Guam From Invasion - Dominion Shield [NTU Mod] 1/2 - SEA POWER](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OLZ0Q0tYD98/mqdefault.jpg)
![Defending Guam From Invasion - Dominion Shield [NTU Mod] 1/2 - SEA POWER](/img/tr.png)
I was able to complete this mission with the loss of 1 F-4. A couple of things to keep in mind 1) In this game if you get into a ship to ship missile fight, the Americans will lose against the Soviets almost every time. 2) If you are detected by a submarine, that data is instantly transmitted to every asset in the fleet. What I did was set my task force to 1/3 ahead and send out a bunch of Sea Sprites to set up a sonobuoy picket. While the Sea Sprites were dropping buoys, I sent the F-4s at full afterburner to intercept the Tupolev. I also sent my flight of A-6s and the P-3 with Harpoons at full speed to positions on either side of the soviet formation at a range of 60 nm. By the time the Tupolev was taken care of, my helicopters had a sound contact which was quickly prosecuted. At this point, I sent my sub towards the Soviet formation at high speed and used the F-4s to take out radar picket helos and clear a corridor of any ASW assets. When the A-6s and P-3 were in firing position, I dumped everything I had from two directions on the Kirov and launched a salvo of Harpoons from my sub. The initial salvo resulted in the sinking of the Kirov and two escorts. After this, I maneuvered the sub to within 10 nm of the remainder of the formation and picked off most of the remaining vessels. My SAG then mopped up any resistance with a long range salvo of Harpoons.
The technology portrayed in this game makes it very clear why the US went all-in on the Aegis+VLS combo, nixing pretty much everything else just as soon as there were enough hulls to even begin to do it, even though this left CSGs somewhat short of ASW helicopters for a while. (And I think these were actually the main reason the Perrys hung around as long as they did)
EDIT: if you install the NTU mod, you can see the results - it goes from a single Kirov usually being able to sink or cripple most of a CSG, to a pair of Kirovs having trouble getting a hit on a lone Ticonderoga. Aegis was a *huge* game-changer.
Rear Admiral Armchair thinks:
Leave the formation on course to the red fleet. But tighten them up.
The foremost Perry must come back so they share the umbrella.
Go Surface/Air Search as you start the scenario, because you are obviously made.
Draw the 80nm circle on the ship with the SM-ER's and as soon as you see one enter that circle, command two missiles from that ship per AntiShipMissile.
I think the weapons tight engagment is shorter.
Maybe even that TU wanders in to that circle if you keep the fleet on course to the reds.
Would also send the Jackosonville full speed below the layer and send 4 mk48's towards the Red's as soon as you can. They won't hit, but they have certainly something to think about.
TL;DR: Sometimes offense, is the best defense.
Really enjoyed your SeaPower content so far.
This post pretty much echoes my thoughts. Mutually supportive anti-missile defences/countermeasures/ECM might be enough to get you through.
Thanks for playing! This mission is the weakest in the campaign as balance factors have changed off and on since release -- during Beta, Kirov would only rarely fire off more than 4-6 Granits at a time which made the air defense a lot easier. In testing I still usually lost either Crommelin or Goldsborough. This one is designed to be challenging and present the player with some not so fun decisions. One other thing some commenters have mentioned is the hit chance of Harpoons has seemed to change off and on throughout release which has caused issues in this one too. I may rework it before releasing the final 5 missions either way. Cheers
Have you managed to beat this one under the current game build??
@@jeffliick1690 Yes. At least I did. Video will come tomorrow. Well, first part at least (it was a loooong fight).
well certainly the scenario is anything but balanced...yet I loved it!!!!. I won't spoil what happened in my case, as my own video about this fight I'll upload to my channel tomorrow, but other than the game doing me dirty (there seems to me some kind of bug that prevents some planes from shooting when ordered, I had real issues getting my Intruders to launch their harpoons), I had a blast playing this one.
@@ramjb Look forward to it, my results are much like Stealth’s… Awesome campaign though, the other missions were a ton of fun.
@@jeffliick1690 actually, I chose to make it public already. No reason to wait until tomorrow. It's in my channel, it's only part 1 of 2, however. Enjoy it.
It's like sink the Bismarck, but instead of Bismarck, it's a battlecruiser that can hit you from nearly 400 nm out.
Yeah, bit challenging
Yeah so the best way to survive this, is turning yourself invisible.
@@srgabrielfb😂😂😂
@@Stealth17Gaming This scenario is broken, not challanging. Your missiles are always missing or going for chaf while their are absolutely pinpoint. Feels like the fleet is just distraction and the sub is what matters. Would not be surprised if torps would also fall for chaf in this scenario😂
@@adamdante7306 I can't agree. And I'll be posting a video that proves why I can't agree by tomorrow.
I don't really know why everyone is complaining about harpoons missing or going for chaff all the time...it really never seems to be the case for me, and I have a good number of Sea Power videos that pretty much prove my point. I guess luck plays a factor. Who knows.
I got even worst results than you, Scott was sunk by Granit every time, and the kirov intercepted 26 harpoons, and 4 Mk 48 launched at it like piece of cake in the 7th attempt. Even got my sub in trouble. I'm really bad at this one😅. Nice Content ! Keep up !!
I don't think YOU'RE bad at this. It's just totally unrealistic for those intercept percentages to happen.
@@johnnyenglish583yep, it is totally unrealistic and tbh it seems very broken at this moment
Guys, remember this: most US naval SAMs have a surface engagement mode! All hope is not yet lost when you run out of harpoons
Jesus, what is the accuracy on those interceptors?
that's like 10 interceptors to any vampire
Nato stuff is nerfed. CIWS does nothing.
the RNG with this game is rediculous. I've had a Tico intercept everything without getting damaged in one run, and another run missing every interceptors.
Did this mission just today, and surprisingly did it first try without much trouble contrary to alot of other people here. The Soviet battlegroup never fired on me and I actually noticed that the battlegroup all had their radars off meaning I was just essentially hidden the entire time. Boys in the f4's flew alot of daring missions close to the battlegroup to intercept their helicopters and planes, nearly getting hit by a bunch of missiles in the process Decided to put all my eggs in basket and essentially fired nearly all my available harpoons at the soviets in a coordinated attack by all my assets in an attempt to just completely overwhelm their air defenses. I would have killed the Kirov in that strike but for some reason the harpoons targeting system decided to go for the supply ship at the back as they were literally diving to hit the Kirov, making miss out on maybe like seven hits. Finished off the three ships left with any leftover harpoons and as well torpedoes from the Jacksonville, and the scenario was done.
Might have to replay this because it seems like a lot of other people had different experiences getting detected
That’s a very tough situation as going into the missile range of the Kirov is basically a death sentence
Bet this mission makes you wish you had the Air-2 Genie available. Hard to miss an intercept if you vaporize everything within a thousand
I managed to beat this mission on the 2nd try:
1. Make USS Scott leave formation and flank speed GTFO. Keep it in EMCON but weapons free.
2. Use the SSN to target the Kirov, fire 4 harpoons and run. I got lucky and managed to hit once.
3. Use the F-4s to target the enemy aircraft and helos. Bring the AWACS down to 20000 feet so it can detect the Shipwrecks in their terminal dive.
4. Set up the ASuW P-3 and A-6's for a coordinated attack, make sure to stay out of the Kirov's S-300 range.
5. Pray that not all your screening ships die. I managed to keep the CG and DDG but lost the FFG. I think the nearby merchant ship helped to soak up some missiles too lol.
6. Use ALL your AGM-84 on the Kirov, hopefully they don't retarget. If possible coordinate this strike with the SSN.
7. Use your remaining RGM-84, SM, and torpedoes to mop up survivors.
Abit cheesy, but gotta do what you gotta do... I got rekt the first time I played, spawning within detection range of the Soviet radar plane really sucks
I failed this mission multiple times like you did trying to get away to buy time. Finally, I tried crawling forward EMCON with the ships at a slow pace, downed the ASW with my F4s, sunk the sub, moved my A6s behind, and then unleashed hell all at once. 20 Harpoons at the Kirov and then weapons free. Devastating and didn't lose a thing. Getting the ships in range without getting detected is critical.
Nice work!
This! Took me 4 tries. Avoiding being detected is the key to survival and winning this mission.
Let's compare what percentage of the Harpoons were intercepted in one of the previous scenarios by the russian ships (I'd say about 80%), and how hard it is to intercept a Shipwreck. The Shipwreck is a gigantic missile that should be easier to track and hit, while Harpoon is a pretty small target and it flies lower. I still maintain the AI has overpowered AA capabilities. Also, Shipwrecks never go for chaff, whereas Harpoons do in at least 40% of cases.
Plus, the damage control parties don't work in this game. The US Navy has traditionally been known for its amazing damage control skills, but here it just doesn't matter. Every ship that gets hit, sinks.
As a sailor, I agree with the DC parties skills. This makes it feel like the DC boys haven't done a single training since bootcamp and their first time fighting a fire.
@darthrevan454 exactly! US Navy has a track record of even being able to save ships that had their whole bow blown off, like the USS New Orleans, which sailed to Australia backwards :) here, they don't seem to be doing anything at all.
Even if the shipwreck is a gigantic missile, it has plenty of systems designed to avoid being shot down, for example, it has defensive ECM, its armored against CWIS and missile fragments, it has built in evasive patterns to avoid interception, it's supersonic. Comparing that to a harpoon that has no armor, no ECM and flies at a very brisk pace of around 500knots you can see why it's much easier to intercept, like it or not soviet and (nowadays) russian missile tech is vastly superior to US missile tech
@@sheogorath979Well, admittedly that’s very dependent on the type of missile. The Anti ship missile tech gap has significantly narrowed over the years and the US generally has an air to air missile advantage
I believe the devs have acknowledged that damage and DC Teams are busted at the minute and will be getting a pass. Don't know when.
Thanks so much for creating this! So much fun, lol. I usually change formation to put the Belknap on point, to SM-2 the Bear and all the Helixs. The first time I finished this I emptied everyone's magazines fighting off Granits, losing Sterett and then Harpooned the escorts to finally sink the Kirov - last man standing! - with gunfire from the Kidd and the Charlie can. Glorious.
Poor old Skipjack's Mk 48s couldn't acquire anything? haha
Damn you weren't kidding when you said it was gonna be hard
I actually managed to survive without any losses, just a damaged ship - I had a coordinated A-3 and Submarine harpoon strike that took out the Kirov and the Udaloy; then had the P-3 hit the logi ship and attempt to hit the gun boat (didn't work); and then reloaded the sub to hit the two survivors. The reason they can spot you is via the submarine that's close to your fleet
I was able to pretty easily win by hunting the sub mercilessly, then moving in. I play very passive anytime intel indicates a sub is active in the AO
Rule of thumbing for defending, let the enemy come to you. The conga line you suggested is an excellent example of a fighting withdrawal to inflict damage as you regroup and consolidate with other forces such as your CAP. The bomber is spotting for the enemy fleet so you definitely need to risk the safety of your air cover to shoot that thing down and blind the enemy.
The submarine hasn't even been utilized and is your primary striking force to kill the Kirov. Make a steady approach to the fleet with it and if you get lucky, you can detect the Soviet sub since they generally are pretty noisy if they are screening for the surface force. Dog leg your torpedo attack to confuse the enemy and take down the ASW ships first before striking at the Kirov.
And yes, F4s have a very powerful radar and were/are used for radar pickets and missle guidance.
I wish such a game as Seapower existed set in the 1930's, the 1940's and 1950/60's. The level of simulation and control would be amazing in the Steam And Steel Gun age plus the power of prop aircraft carriers. I know UAD and other games exist but I want something exactly like sea power or War on the sea with this level of sim and customisation in terms of what units you've got.
Does the game include reconnaissance satellites? Even if Cold War satellites didn’t provide continuous real-time information, the short glimpses of information they did provide would be an interesting game dynamic.
Don't think it does, no
Afaik they will be included in upcoming campaign, especially soviet ones
I think the problem may be w/ the way the scenario sets up the way the US/NATO fights. The US should have way more air assets. And in 1985, better than Phantoms. The USN doctrine assumes air superitority and that aircraft will be the primary offensive weapon. The aircraft keeping the Soviets at arms length outside of their missile range and blinded.
That Panama scenario had the Soviets fighting, w/ thier carrier, like a US CVBG. Doing exactly what the USN trains to do. Keeping the bad guys outta their missile range while systematically hammering them w/ strike aircraft.
The F-4s didn't fire their AIM-9Js because they're rear aspect missiles only. They need to be behind the target before they can fire, and by the time the plane turned around, the missile was out of range.
How many harpoons will you be taking?
Yes.
I'd be interested in seeing the same scenarios run in CMO. See how they differ. Or I might just _do_ the scenario in CMO to see how it works differently.
Just played this mission today. Was really excellent. Found out about the Charlie SSGN the hard way, though got lucky and dodged the wake homers and got it with some helos but was a close one. Used the merchant as a Shipwreck Sponge, lost one ship, ran out of the good SM2 ERs but managed to survive. Good ole Jacksonville saved the day and wrecked the Soviet Fleet. Real fun mission. Good challenge.
Falklands. The RN placed a frigate 10 miles towards the threat origin than the rest of the formation to act as a missile sponge. They lost the ship but every other ship including a Light Carrier and a marine landing ship was untouched
SN-19s in this game are like if a 9 year old tankie described soviet missles "and they are super fast, and super smart, and they never fall for chaff, and and they are so fast that missles can't hit them, and and they can't be shot down with bullets, and they um have infinite range."
As for recommendations I'd try that conga line idea. IF you can get in formation in time and if the aforementioned 9 year old's missles don't just decide to bypass the rear ship and keep going into more of them. As for winning the scenario? I think it's all RNG. The Kirov can probably defend herself against all your aerial and subsurface harpoons on her own, not even taking in account the rest of the group. Even with your surface group I doubt you could launch enough of them fast enough that they wont just be shot down. So the only thing I can think of is torpedo's and that is entirely RNG with the RBUs and with that formation there are a LOT of them.
This is one of those missions where you really need VLS to have a chance at fighting this fight.
Going broadside should be avoided. Better to sail away or towards the missle. Loss of one CIWS battery is worth a smaller radar and physical profile. Also helps minimize damage for anything below Shipwreck size.
I did it yesterday. First try went as yours, I found a sub. Now I knew what to expect and turned my SAG around (like you did). Went only ahead 1/3rd all the time and my SAG was never attacked. I rushed my F4 to intercept the enemy ASW plane and afterwards hit the deck and let them plink the helicopters. I now knew where the enemy sub was, so I took it out without much trouble. Meanwhile I tried a Harpoon attack from the East with all the A7 plus the P-3C on the Kirov. Not even 1 hit out of all these missiles. Their aerial defense is nuts! My Sub took the risk and went all Flank towards the enemy. I managed to come into 3nm of range and torped the Kirov, the Udaloy and the Kanin. Unfortunately this was also the end of my sub, but afterwards my SAG wiped the floor with the remaining 3 ships. I don´t know why they never shot an ASM at me, maybe the low speed (and EMCOM ofc)? And of course I killed their spotters relatively fast.
You need a specialty ship - a Floating WALL ! 80 feet long, 40 feet high and 20 feet thick, full of ... ?? .. concrete , no that would sink. Cement boats did float, hmmmm.
Something I noticed about the F-4s: I can't get them to shoot Sidewinders while carrying Sparrows. If I specifically order them to attack with the AIM-9 they just ignore that and do nothing. Maybe there's a mechanic I don't understand but when intercepting vampires I have them shoot a salvo of Sparrows at max range, cease fire to stop guiding (they'll miss anyway) repeat and only then will they use their Sidewinders
Yeah it's like they're locked into their orders
Interesting tactical scenario but also a totally unrealistic one as far as the fleet staring positions are concerned. Knowing full well the capabilities of the Kirov and its escorts, what fleet admiral would just dumbly order his ships to sail head-on towards the enemy? That would invite suidice. The Kirov SAG with an accompanying Tu-142 literally represents the perfect scenario for them. I'd suggest that the mission needs to start with the US SAG outside of Shipwreck range to at least allow the player some tactical maneuverability. Otherwise this just comes down to missile hit RNG.
For harpoon’s short range I think
The scenario needs to be reworked on how the Red side threatens blue with detection.
The key issue is the scenario is not designed to be a war about recon.
It cheeses detection of player early on. It is possible to avoid detection but I won't say how to avoid spoilers.
The way this mission is designed emphasizes the need to have a contest in the air to determine if player will likely lose or not.
15:24 exactly it becomes an exercise in Lanchesters law, losing one vessel is an exponential loss, not a linear loss
23:45 Yeah, can only fire one Fox 1 (Sparrow) at a time. Fox 3’s and Fox 2’s you can fire multiples.
I have tried to beat this mission maybe 7 times and best resoult i got was torpedoing the soviet formation with submarine, but by that time, all my ships were toast.
What worked best was setting my formation in a line so that Scott is in the back and Shipwrecks got spoofed into destroing rest of the formation and then into their sinking wrecks, it still didn't save her tho. Also going flank with Scott EMCOM, while rest of formation blasting radars and going opposite direction worked a little, but Kirov always has one more missile to send.
Crippling Kirov with harpoons from submarine worked one time, it was dead in a water, but weapon systems still worked, but that was a lot of luck and only 4 harpoons almost never get through air defences. That might be the best shot at beating this mission still, since there is no other way to attack enemy before they fire missiles and once that happens, it's game over.
It was kind of guilty pleasure watching this video.
I found that if you have a couple of B-52s and a shitload of harpoons it becomes elementary.
After 12 attempts I ended up running at 0.1x speed and hyper-microed my missiles. That was enough with good RNG to survive. After that the mission was doable.
The sheer amount of SM1 and SM2 missiles missing feels really wrong. The ineffectiveness of CIWS on all incoming ASMs across multiple attempts seems a bit much as well, as I've heard several others state US CIWS was supposed to be of much higher effectiveness during this era.
For the F-4's, I'd recommend setting them to afterburner and 20k altitutde at the beginning and changing the ship formation to use a two-layer sponge, with one sacrificial ship out front, your second least valuable behind that, then everything else behind those two in a relatively close straight line. It may be worth trying to get your helicopter and other air assets immediately low and south in case they're helping to give away your position.
Oh, also, the AIM-7's had a historically poor reputation for accuracy and reliability, but that was primarily based on their early decades and during Vietnam, with the more modern variants in the 1980's improving. Although I believe they were still better than the opposing Soviet R-27 missile of the day. As you noted, they're Fox 1's, so they can only be fired one at a time. One strategy is to fire an AIM-9 to let it seek on its own and then fire an AIM-7 and let it track, then repeat. It should result in being able to engage two targets per salvo for each jet, as long as you workout the intercept to get them at altitude, fast, and turning so they aren't too far behind in pursuit.
Its easier if you draw one 65nm range circle from the enemy group than drawing multiple circle for all your ASuW units. if they are inside the circle they are in range.
Can't you pretend you fleet are neutral fishing vessels from Switzerland? 😁
Interesting tactics, I reckon arranging your ships so the CIWS can overlap as a last defence, maybe? Like super close formation? Might have to sacrifice one ship to soak the damage. Definitely on the right track with the phantoms.
Beyond that, as you said, RNG :')
Kobayashi Maru???
Of what I can recall from your earlier videos of Sea Power, then it seems the enemy AI have a better chance to intercept your missiles, while your AI has hard time to do it. It is like there is fresh rookie crew on your ships that are up against enemy veterans and battle harden sailors.
It is like the modern equivalent of Battle of Drøbak Sound. However, your ships is just the cruiser Blücher and the enermy AI is the Oscarsborg Fortress which is ripping you apart
The way this mission is designed now, I think it’s a Kobayashi Maru mission. The Soviet assets have been spoofed to allow them to dodge and intercept your missiles more easily while your assets have been spoofed to miss more often. The intercept ratio of your missiles on the Shipwrecks is way too low, even without Aegis.
I’m curious how others have found Sea Power in comparison to DCS. Which one is more realistic? In DCS, for example, SMs rarely miss (hit ratios of 90% or better).
I see that you struggle with the aircraft as well. When I tell them to attack an enemy they shoot one missle. If they do not hit, they go on a holiday break instead of a pursuit... A/C AI need a lot of work...
Hmm, the US SAMS are obviously underperforming
I changed the CG to NTU, and DDG change to Tico (vls), and it became just fun(
i think this mission is not well Balanced. Sorry but Starting direct with Enemy Engagment is not got, you have no Time to get a Defence Position or somthing. This is why i don´t like at this moment the state of the Game for Naval engament. I build my own campaign and is very chellanging to make it possibil and not to easy.
What is it called on the workshop?
@@navuek You finde my missions in the Workshop under the Name "Campaign Operation Sulu Warrior"
8:35 Watching that single shipwreck get ignored by those SM-2ER’s at altitude, evade like ten SM-1’s and literally brush off that long CIWS burst alone… that’s just cruel. Did you have any defensive ECM on those ships?
It’s unrealistic. Get the new threat upgrade mod which buffs US Sams to their realistic values.
@ I wouldn’t say it’s unrealistic. For the early 80’s, the NTU would be unrealistic
Defensive ECM is just essentially a miss chance %. It's not something you turn on or off
@@PrinceJJGoated yeah but it helps
@@christopherchartier3017 I think their point is that it's not something you can control in-game, and they're right. DECM is turned on automatically outside of player control.
Can we get some Air and Sea assets under other flags ?
Is it just me or does it seem like US interception rates are pathetic compared to the soviets?
this game is too easy if you have a carrier or any EW planes in the mission
1. Jam it with EA-6, fly in thier AA bubble under 1000ft so they won't detect you far out
2. pop up after getting in jammer range, they now lost ability to shoot at your EA-6 with SAMs
3. fire a salvo of ASMs
4. ships can now only intercept ASMs with naval guns and CIWS, SAMs now have less range than their main guns, maybe under 4nm range
5. without SAM intercepting missiles out 10+nm maybe 4-8 harpoons will do the job
now it's just a problem of those dumb harpoons all going for one targets or going after chaffs
Right. And in this mission? I don't have a carrier.
Great! This is a topic I've been looking forward to seeing for a long time.
Try the f4js aim 9 using queued orders first on the ssn19s first as they are prority aim 7s u only get one shot because you have to guide.
Manually fire sm1 in salvo of 2 from escorts
Hey Stealth! Have you heard of "Scramble!: Squadron Leader"? It's a turn-based Battle of Britain game that you might enjoy. Not sure if it's released yet or just early access, but I've seen a couple other creators cover it!
I think he might have done a video on it earlier this year but I'm not sure
Yes I know of it. Interesting game. Haven't made a video because I'm much more comfortable doing Sea Power rather than dogfighting
there is a quick mission in Cold Waters to sink the Kirov but it only has 2 escort ships lol
So I think if you bunch the fleet up, the CIWS will be concentrated more.
Maybe try this mission with the ntu update? Lol
is this a russian devoloper?
Lot of your interceptors were disappearing just after being launched. Was that a bug or something?
Lots of people have posted their issues with the balance/performance of the US units and for me the one thing that I am most annoyed about is the CWIS, versus a single missile at a time *espetially* the gigantic shipwrecks they should be shooting them down *almost* every time, instead yours shot them down almost none of the time
What a monster
My F-4 don't fire their missiles for any reason... This happens even when within range and with the radar activated. Bug? Watching the video I noticed that it doesn't happen to you.
If this doesn't prove the Kirov is laughably overpowered in Sea Power, I don't know what does.
What am I fucking watching 😂😂😂
Lmao I can't watch anymore of these videos, the ridiculous nerf to American interceptors is just beyond parody. A non-maneuvering SSN19 on a flat trajectory was missed by 5-7 missiles AND the CWIS.
I'm done with this shit and I'm not coming back without a major mechanics overhaul.
The American interceptors suck against SS-N-19s because not a single version of the Standard Missile at this point in time had anti sea-skimmer capability. The first version to include that was in 1988, with the SM-2MR Block 3. Even then, that was only a modified fuze. (It's not known when SMs got proper anti sea-skimmer capability, but it was probably not before the 90s).
So, at this point in time, the ONLY missile capable of reliably killing sea-skimmers would be the Sea Sparrow.
Nobody is "nerfing" anything. This is just how it was. The US simply hyperfocused on killing high-speed and high-altitude targets such as the Kh-22 (AS-4). Especially since the SS-N-19 was falsely believed to be a high altitude missile by the west during the cold war.
@ryonacrest6178 go watch the video. They weren't just missing at wavetop level, they were missing at 9000 feet all the way to the water.
Its fucking laughable.
@@TheNerdForAllSeasons Oh, boo-hoo you child. Don’t like it? Don’t play it. Carry your crybaby ass somewhere else. Ryonacrest is correct, so it seems all you’re doing is bitching and complaining.
Are you out of range or something??? I've noticed in every engagement of yours you always let enemy engage you first regardless of which side you are on. I'm not really sure why it always happens like that but it's frustrating every time lol
In most US (Stealth) v USSR scenarios, the Soviets have a 100-200nm standoff advantage due to their superior anti-ship missiles so it’s semi-regular that the US must be on the defensive first.
Nothing is hitting?!?! I hate this game.
Yo that where I live
Imo the sm1s and sm2s arent as good in this game as they should be
Hey Stealth
I think you're also falling victim to a bug
The Standard Missiles of the Sterret seem to splash just after a few miles, you can see it @9:50 and some other point in the video when youre defending the first wave of SSN's
idk about how the interceptors are supposed to work irl, but in game they self destruct if their target is gone.
@tomasjasiunas1911 hmm okay, but i dont think their targets are gone at this point, and it happens consistently through all the tries stealth does at this scenario.
Could be at least worth looking into, when trying the scenario again after restarting the game/computer
*USE WATER*
Soviet bias continues.
Their missiles seems to somehow magically fly through CIWS hail of fire most of the time.
@@KanJonathan if I find out that someone from Gajin is in kahoots with Triassic games in all this Soviet equipment bias...I'm so gonna lose my cool!
@ or the programmer is an IS Tankie.
@@KanJonathan it’s not only that though. I’ve seen A6:s fly through CIWS. That system is broken.
@@KanJonathan You do know those missiles are armored against CIWS fire, right? I swear, everyone just wants NATO curbstomp power fantasies in these games. "I should be able to shoot down every single missile with impunity"
The die hard American fans crying in the comments make me giggle 😅
He doesn't deploy any chaff? what the hell is this ?
The game does that automatically.
@Stealth17Gaming you can do that manually, it's on the lower part of the screen besides the weapons
Yes I know. And the game does it automatically. Then there's a 60 second reload. The game knows than I when to do it. Trust me, I use it.
Why are american ships so ugly?