Xenoblade Retcons
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2023
- I feel like I started this video with the aim of doing showing that retcons aren't all bad but mostly ended up just showing that the series doesn't have as many as you think. My point still stands, though, unless you're a really big 2 hater who also doesn't think 3 was worth what 2 brought to the table you probably won't complain too hard about any of the stuff that is a retcon.
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Also also I just realized something. The Telethia flying into the Fog King and destroying it was probably meant to foreshadow the main issue of 3, with the worlds colliding and canceling each other out. That Telethia probably sacrificed itself by colliding with the Fog King in such a way that they both just... blipped out of existence.
...Why do the Telethias keep getting sadder
That makes too much sense wait.
I thought that was the telethia in X?
Damn 😪
@@EdElric15652000x isnt really relevant to xc3. Mira still exists as it is, only xc1 and xc2 fused
@@EdElric15652000 The rift is the XB2 universe. Also X has references to the events of the first game as legends pased on by the nopon.
Around 14:50, that's not depicting the actual universes colliding, just individual particles meeting. It's established by the Chapter 7 infodump and the challenge mode portals that the colors corresponding to each universe are red and blue, whereas going off of Keves and Agnus's color schemes, yellow and blue at least represent the ether particles from each universe, if not all their matter. That scene also contains those transparent hexagons that universally represent shields or barriers in the series, here representing Origin's attempts to keep the particles separated. The immediate cut to an annihilation event hollowing out Uraya implies these specific particles meeting caused that annihilation, but it may also just be alluding to annihilation events in general being caused by these collisions.
Yeah, also in future redeemed when Shulk talks about the annihilation events they use that shot
@koj30 did the scene not play during a mio and noah meeting?
It played right before the annihilation of the Urayan Mountains
Yeah this
Shhhhhhh, just let him have this
While I understand that some may have wanted Xenoblade 1 to stand alone as its own game, I generally feel that Monolith Soft did retcons right. They did it in a way that benefitted the franchise and, to me, made XC1 even more interesting retroactively.
Anyway, on to watching the video since I only really know of two retcons, lol.
I can't remember where exactly I found it, but I remember seeing a snippet of an interview early on in 1's history where Takahashi was told about how neatly self-enclosed 1 is to the point that there doesn't seem like anything left to follow up on. I'm paraphrasing but his response was "Oh really? ;-)" and that he likes to deliberately leave a few things open at the end of his stories so that there's room for a sequel. Meaning he was ready to continue the story of 1 from the getgo.
@@fenix0seraph There certainly was room left for a sequel, I personally always knew. Shulk's new world(which I would like to call "New earth", but that conflicts with the end of FR now) was completely unexplored, which is material for a new game in its own right, just maybe a few inuniverse generations later. And Shulk wished for a world with no gods instead of one that definitively does not need them...which is a thing they actually used as a basis of XC3, but the implementation of that is kinda scuffed.
The point I see tho is that there is a diffrence between using room left for a sequel and just ripping room open, even if it leaves the preexisting story with a flesh wound that won't heal because the space is now filled with matter that clearly was not meant to be there.
@@lpfan4491still think Mira is that planet or just a pocket universe where earth(old miltia) went. Not like the stories are connected, but the plots are similar in that sense.
Many people fell in love with Xc1 because on it own still holds up, and despite people loving 2 and 3, many felt that the lighting in the bottle that Xc1 had was not in those games.
@@zetamangads That's pretty much where I stand. I still love Torna, Xenoblade 3, and Future Redeemed but to me they never quite reached the highs and overall package of Xenoblade 1 for me. So although there's retcons and we see the fates of XC1 characters in later installments I'll just remember Xenoblade 1 as it's own standalone thing without paying much mind to anything after that I feel diminishes everything I love about it.
33:50 in Xenoblade 2 the stuff that made the world tree is said be very durable and able to stand the harsh effects of time and remain in pristine condition unlike the stuff that Elysium was built on
32:45 I think the implication behind Origin metal is that it was originally ordinary metal from Bionis/Mechonis/Alrest (possibly steel, if Riku's explanation of the creation of Lucky 7 is accurate), and only has the power it does inside Aionios. In the base game Nia states Lucky 7 has the strength it does because it is "external to the flow", and A and Riku reveal in Future Redeemed that it is connected to the souls within Origin.
Basically, Origin metal is linked to the souls of everyone stored in Origin, and is able to cut through the false world their fear of the unknown created. As something that exists outside of Moebius's world, they have no control over it.
Thank you, I've felt like this was the easiest explanation for origin metal since 3 dropped yet I've seen almost no one else come to this conclusion
Wait, so that implies Lucky Seven is just a sword in the normal world. So when Noah throws it in the water at the end, who cares it's just a sword now
@@LilybeeTVthat's where the concept of symbolism comes into play
@@LilybeeTV well if u think about it, even in aionios if it didn't contain souls or connected to origin, it's quite literally just the sharpest tool in the shed. It's made from arguably the strongest metal so it's just a blade that can inherently cut thru most things then add it being empowered further allowing it to cut through the reality of moebius.
@@LilybeeTV There's still Pneuma and Logos inside it tho.
BABE WAKE UP, NEW LUXIN VID
Honestly always interpreted the different Birth of a Universe cutscenes outside of being a retcon being how Zanza viewed it in his mind vs. how the Architect viewed it in his mind. One very egotistical and one very mournful and reflected. And with Alvis only appearing in 1's world after a set amount of time, it's possible they didn't have the full picture anyways
For me, the Birth of a Universe scene in XC1 was Alvis summing it up almost like a black box. It knew some of the information being sent through and could understand it, but it wasn't able to get the fine details due to a lack of information.
It's also worth pointing out that the Trinity Processor wasn't it's own person as of the experiment. It was essentially a trio of CPUs discussing how to use a god-like power source with no real thoughts of their own, and that's especially the case for Ontos. They didn't really care for human specifics, rather the information being sent through the Low Orbit Stations.
The pov of playing God vs the pov of someone who didn't forget why and what led to it... and regrets trying to control everyone's futures without them getting a choice.
@@ShadowSkyX yeah essentially. The different sides of him only saw the parts they wanted to see(more so in the case of Zanza)
Nope sorry all that goes out the window when you have literally other assistant people in the room with klaus with a space window then in Xenoblade 2 it’s just him and her and the whole I wish to be a god yet him say I want humanity’s to survive BULLSHiIIiIiII
Sorry not going to hear that laziness excuse that it was just point of view
Now with that retcon the two moments of klaus of xeno 1 and Xeno 2 now feel like two different Damn timelines of events ugh 😑
Like honestly i understand things being added to the lore to give more of a explanation and all but Over retroactively explaining it to the point the original end we know now makes no sense HOW DO YOU F@@@ that up?!!!🤨 especially when it’s the SAME DIRECTOR NO EXCUSES 😡😒
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003thats literally how unreliable narrators with different perspectives works. Zanza remembered other people because he wanted an audience to see him ascend to godhood, while the Architect only remembered the most relevant details that led to his mistake.
Alvis didn't show the full context to Shulk of the previous world because time was of the essence due to Bionis collapsing and because even Alvis doesn't have a full picture of the events.
In addition, I remember a lot of people believing that the reason the cutscenes were so different was because of perspective. That being the cutscene in XC1 was how Zanza remembered it in his arrogance and hubris. Paraphrasing what Alvis says in the final battle, ‘the power of providence is great, but not unlimited’ likely referring to his connection to the Zohar, in his hubris he likely completely threw away anything that could stand above him. In addition, Zanza was never aware of his other half to begin with, if he was never aware of that who knows how reliable his other memories of the old world were
I definitely think the difference is intentional. It reminds me of Xenogears Perfect Works, where it describes an important plot point from the game, then says what actually happened was a bit more complicated. Takahashi really likes his unreliable narration and used it liberally - it only looks retconny when the story is spread over multiple games.
How far in to your ass did you have to dig for that explanation?
The origin concept totally needs MUCH more explanation. I'm ok with the vagueness of it just for the sake of letting peoples imagination run wild, but if Monolithsoft can build any future plot out of it, I am all for it.
Hopefully in a sequel game or canon spin-off.
i still feel like i know nothing and understand nothing about origin ;-;
Origin is soft sci-fi rather than hard sci-fi, the focus is on what it does to the characters and world, and not how. And that is fine, it is a very common brench of sci-fi. Maybe with the X universe they will incline a bit more to hard sci-fi but even that still expect it to be more of science fantasy than pure sci-fi, and that is the setting they prefer.
@@joebilly3719 this explanation is satisfying enough for me
@Zorgot. I feel like it's a subject that needs to sit for awhile for it all to sink in, and maybe you need to be a bit older to eventually understand it.
25:30 His world is only the two titans and an endless ocean. Shulk would have never seen or heard of a planet before this.
43:10 My understanding of this is that A/lvis didn’t foresee Aionios. A says ‘all I see is what the flow encompasses’. Since Aionios isn’t part of the flow of time, A/lvis couldn’t foresee it.
Technically Torna does retcon some minor visuals. Clearly they didn't have all the models ready, so just using the wastelands of Temperantia as a place holder was easier than deciding on what they wanted locations like Aletta to look like. Most importantly of all those minor changes was changing Addam's eyes from blue to gold because the color of his eyes have an impact on the plot.
It's almost surprising how few retcons there are with how much the base game talks about the Aegis War. It just manages to leave enough room for new interpretations, such as Mythra having little involvement up until the very end of it.
A. Also Jin's sword is on Lora's back in the base game cutscene of them meeting young Mik, implying Lora is the one using it like how driver/blade pairs work in base XC2
When were addam's eyes shown in base game?
@@runaway74when rex talks to addam in the dream of elysium
Eh, idk. I still think the "truth" is supposed to be more exciting and emotionally gripping and not less, unless the point of the story was that people were overselling the events in question. Torna, while a neat expansion where it works, does not exactly allow for more interpretations, it just replaces the most logical interpretation with something majorly downscaled that not at all fits all the pain of the past regarding Mythra that is showcased by the entire world in XC2. Also kinda turns the entirety of the narrative into the Torna-meme of everyone bullying Mythra for no reason.
@@lpfan4491 I mean, you kind of already get that when you get a heart to heart (I'm pretty sure it was) of Mythra, Zeke, and I think Nia. Where Mythra points out how Addam didn't like spicy foods at all, like the stories Zeke seems to be hearing is trying to paint Addam as. Which was destroying this "manly" image Zeke had of Addam in his head.
About the radio and the potential links with Xenogears and Xenosaga, that was already the case in Xenoblade 2. The artbook of Xenoblade 2 states that KOS-MOS Re was designed by Shion and Allen. These must come from the same universe as the Dimitri Yuriev mentionned by the radio.
The fact KOS-MOS was no DLC Blade proves she was intended to be fully canon and no simple Easter egg.
@@Movel0 Even if Elma is DLC only and does not appear in the Xenoblade 3 universe, she is canon in my heart. 🥲
I think that the two worlds recombining would release the same Conduit energy that initially split them (conservation of energy), and that would explain why Origin would work: its recycling the leftover reality warping power from the Conduit.
The collision between different types of matter also releases an insane amount of energy, so maybe they used some of that too. When the worlds combined and both halves of Origin phased into each other and "clicked", maybe an antimatter engine of sorts started up, and it booted up Origin
@UltimaPhoenix-dx3kt The amount of energy released in annihilation can only be equal to the matter. So conservation of energy. As matter is just a form of energy (e=mc²)
Shulk isn't stupid for not recognizing Earth as a planet, he's just ignorant. If we were a space fairing species we'd probably have the same exact reactions to uncharted planets.
Thank you papa Lux, for coming back with the milk
Oh there he goes
I think it’s kinda neat when you look back on xenoblade 1 with the idea that ontos is a part of the trinity processor as essentially an arbiter of power, you start to notice that alvis is present in quite a few “trinities” like you can consider him, zanza and meyneth a trinity, the disciple trinity and also at the end of the game with him shulk and zanza sort of being one too. Maybe I was the only one ever confused by this but I never got the logic behind the providence of the universe limiting zanzas power here at the end of all things but viewing it as Alvis using his position as an arbiter to err on the side of shulk and his friends’ desires to be rid of zanza really helped me in finally solidly understanding or having an interpretation on how his power works
26:10 I feel like you're being a liiiiiittle harsh on Shulk here. Like, Homs technology is amazingly advanced for such a struggling species (see: floating transports, healing rifles). That one NPC in Colony 9 who says that the ocean around the titans is infinite and flat mentions, I believe, that math says it should curve after a certain point, like a planet, but it doesn't. You said it yourself, Xenoblade 1 takes place in a pocket dimension. It's not that Shulk doesn't recognize a planet - he straight up doesn't know what they are because they simply don't exist in his world. Can you imagine trying to explain everything we know about the sun to someone who has lived underground all their lives? Heck, the sun and stars over Bionis and Mechonis aren't actual sun and stars! They're balls of ether in the sky that brighten or dim or fall depending on the conditions. Their universe just works differently from Earth's. That's not Shulk's fault.
About Origin.
Pretty much thinking that it is pretty much a man-made Zohar/Conduit.
When creating Origin, it didn't have any major power beyond the Ontos/Pneuma Core powering its halves, the technology/information inside of the cores allowing the people in each world (once getting informed about the upcoming situation) to create and back-up the souls of people inside of core crystals.
The Zohar is a gateway to the Imaginary Number Domain, the place of the Dead Collective Unconscious. So Origin being a massive collection of Souls in one spot pretty much is dragging the Imaginary Number Domain into the Primary Number Domain, pretty much being a Zohar/Conduit in its own right.
Heck, Z and Moebius (and the whole conflict in XBC3/Future Redeemed) is pretty Humanity's "Living Collective Unconscious" (IE the collective consciousness of all the souls living on Earth's 2 divided halves) inside of Origin creating Aionios as a realm to express themselves in.
So pretty much Origin is a Zohar/Conduit-Emulator via brute force rather than being hooked into the actual Zohar/Conduit.
As for Origin Metal, it was stated that Origin Metal "Exists outside the flow" of Aionios. Which, due to Aionios being a sort of conceptual space either in the Imaginary Number Domain, or between it and the Real Number Domain, would make sense as Origin Metal was made outside of Origin. So Origin metal could just be an alloy obtainable in either world that would be, while strong and levitatable, not particularly special. But inside of the conceptual space of Aionios, has power not only due to being a material outside of Origin (as in not created from it), but also due to being part of Origin with that Collective Unconsciousness inside of it.
I wonder if we're not over thinking it. In other xeno games the Zohar is the source of all Ether. In Xenoblade, the two worlds are permeated by it due to the conduits use in their creation. Since the Ether is already there, is the Zohar really necessary to continue powering Origin?
Edit: so many typos
31:33 I don't remember where in 3 I heard it, but I remember hearing something about Origin getting the energy needed to recreate the universes from the light generate by annihilation events. It make sense, considering a matter-antimatter collision would convert 100% of its mass into energy (mostly in the form of light), which Origin could just convert back into the original objects as either all matter or all antimatter. I'd imagine something about its total control over Aionios is what allows it to collect that light without literal solar panels.
You did not hear this. You heard how the energies released during Annihilation Events and the energies of Origin's powers are vaguely similar in nature. You did not hear that Origin is powered by Annihilation Events; that would be the physics defying Keves Castle laser.
32:20 Matter and antimatter colliding would probably supply enough energy for Origin to boot up after the worlds merged.
Man, its great to have another Luxin Xeno video. Although the future of the franchise is kind of unknown right now, It's great to digest all 3 games across a span of 11/13 years.
The scenes and music makes me so nostalgic and I'm reminded the love I have for the games. Thank you, Luxin!
The mentions of things like the pocket dimensions always being the plan/intent reminds me of something from the Monado Files.
In the short story that helps explain how Fiora got her body back, a portion of it mentions how Shulk wants to build Monado replicas for everyone in the colonies for protection while they go fight the final threats.
The Monado REX in Future Connected is definitely partly intended to be a good nod to Shulk's intent to make monado replicas himself, albeit in collaboration with Machina.
I will say that my perspective is the Radio has the _potential_ to be a retcon, but _isn't_ one *_yet._* _If_ Monolithsoft remakes Xenosaga and makes it canon in Xenoblade, then they would become retcons. If instead they decide to "retell" the story of Xenosaga as a distinct game (say "Xenoblade Saga"), then they would _not_ be retcons since it would be a distinct work from the original.
I mean ironically the retcon to fit xenosaga in is actually decently easy to do cause u have a lot of time frame u can insert shit in and other stuff Xd
Idk if this was ever mentioned but I'd say the term "Hom" from Xenoblade one is also retconned because everyone in xenoblade 3 is referred to as human just like Xenoblade 2 (minus blades from 2)
It wasn't exactly retconned because nobody within Aionios were aware of Machina, Hom, High Entia, Gormotti, etc. All the endless now and Moebius needed them to know was that they are human in this world.
The expendable soldiers shouldn't be worrying about various races and what-not as that would be counterintuitive to their plans.
I'd say it's less about a retcon but more about the XC3 people not understanding the concept of races or of terms native to XC1. That's why Melia doesn't bring up them both being High Entia to Eunie when Eunie mentions they're the same. In Future Redeemed Shulk could have mentioned they were called Homs back on Bionis but that doesn't really mean much to everyone else so the term is eventually forgotten.
@@sentoworf great explanation. I see that as well.
I like how Hom is close to home.
Or human.
Home is where other humans were.
@@ShadowSkyX homo sapien
It’s always a good day when you get to listen to Luxin talk about xenoblade for 45mins!
Monolith soft really has been playing 5d chess for years now.
I don't think Origin metal is intrinsically special, I think it has the power it does because of the same diamond-cutting-diamond thing you mentioned earlier. As the components of Origin, it's the base building block that the world of Aionios was generated from, and holds unique powers within the confines of that zone. Take it out or put it on Bionis and Alrest and it's just generic metal that Shulk and Tora agreed was strong enough to be worth building a world-saving Ark out of.
I keep going back and forth on how I feel about the radio scene. On one hand it was fun and kind of heart warming to watch all the long time xeno fans absolutely pop off online. On the other, was literally not paying attention to anything Na’el was saying because I was trying to hear the radio, and plot wise that’s what actually mattered.
but the game has theatre mode, like, we can easily rewatch the cutscene and pay attention to the desired element.
Yeah same lol, at the time I was playing Xenogears and I was thinking how similar the things the radio was saying to Xenogears (mostly the people leaving Earth on ships, though said in Perfect Works), turns out it was a Xenosaga reference
ngl im calling bs on the galea one. in the cutscene shulk literally says "thats meyneth" and she has the same face and voice actor. its very obviously meant to be who meyneth was. perhaps they were leaving that open for potential open sequel reasons but im not sure
Meineth being Galea was somewhat clear in the main game. It was implied but I think the avg mind would conclude that after the ending scene.
hum... that idea of too many pocket universes may not be true as now that it's confirmed that Klaus' original universe is the same as Xenosaga, when XC3 DLC merge 2 pocket dimensions, earth was back to the original state. That action probably destroied any other pocket dimension that could be created because Klaus so Mira going bye bye anyway. If you consider pocket dimensions was about the size of earth itself, anything outside that reagion on space could get in including light. So the sky in XC1 and XC2 is actualy the outside, the Xenosaga universe.
I agree with Xenoblade X. If a port to that game come ever to exist then it should have the missing content. It's obvious that game was planned as a game as a service type. They tried to release a massive game that would receave massive updates. thus the lv60 cap. At least they need to end the game's main story. It wouldn't be that dificult to realocate things to make a proper main story I think...
I've been saying that Alvis before XB2 was a retcon and was probably a HAl 9000 type computer before being retconned into a part of the Trinity Processor (which is a bit different than an administrative computer like HAL 9000, as Ontos only does stuff with the Conduit and the other two cores, and people presumably control stuff on Rhadamanthus).
Im not an Alvis Ontos denier, its just that he was a bit different from what he is now.
Yeah it was definitely a retcon. I don't think it was a bad one though. Gives more depth to his character even if retroactively
I was also of the opinion that Alvis was a HAL.
I was convinced the entirety of Xenoblade 1 was happening in a computer simulation. Inside Alvis basically.
Heck, the only way him calling himself "Monado" would logically work is if that is his name as a blade(Minus that his name as a Blade would be Alvis then, or else that name makes no sense in this explanation, because even Zanza calls him that), like how Malos was awakened from the Logos-core. The conceptual issue being that this is beyond unlikely because they pretty much established that the event that the Ontos-core vanished at was nearly without a doubt the XC1-creation event and that would mean the core was never refunctioned into an admin of the blade system like the other two were. I think FR wants to fix this by saying Alvis was specifically created by Klaus somehow, but that just makes it infinitely more messy.
@@lpfan4491I just assume him calling himself Monado means that Monado is part of him the same way Malos's monado is. There is no monado without Alvis
No, it really isn't when you realize who Alvis has been with.
Alvis, Dickson, Lorithea. Dickson said "of the Trinity", during his reveal, and that over time showing he was working with Lorithea, and then at the end with Alvis, the whole time.
In tandem of creating the world, and I guess keeping it balanced, it's Zanza, Meyneth, and Alvis. Even all their swords lined up together in a triangle at the end.
Even Future Redeemed points this out, with how Alvis doesn't do anything without there being others, most of the time.
So with that, you thought wrong, and Alvis is, and always has been, a trinity core processor. Even in the beginning.
Meyneth not being Galea is strange..
Especially since Shulk points out their similarities himself
@@captianblitz Yeah lol
9:23 I think this is really interesting, because in one of the xenoblade 2 artbooks it shows concept art for some of the blade weapons and it almost looks like the blade's were intended to have two different forms/attacks, almost making it like switching between two weapons. This can kinda be seen with the shield hammer being a shield and a hammer more literally originally. Also the concept of whip swords, being able to change between whip and sword. It even looks like the Aegis blade may have been a n energy canon as well. So I think its interesting that this idea was intended for 1, used in X, and then maybe intended for 2 as well before being scrapped
Milton was kind of a retcon in Torna. It was a little weird Mythra never mentioning him in the main game. Maybe it was too painful for her.
Yea idk if it's too weird she doesn't mention it given that learning of his death basically pushed her over the edge and creating pyra so the too painful to talk about seems like the obvious reason.
"Or have you forgotten what you did before implanting your core crystal?" -mikail
Flashback shows amalthous implanting a core crystal into a gormotti boy while mik looks on. Unfortunately I can't tell if this model is unique or reused. Mik would easily let it happen if it was supposed to be milton and amalthous assured him he could bring him back to life. Note that bringing this up is the angriest we ever see mik get. I think the implication is that it's supposed to be milton in the flashback.
Of course mythra wouldn't mention him. He's directly tied to her trauma and she's in no way ready to tell the details and probably never will be able to.
Always good to have a new Luxin video!
25:32 ofc Shulk thought it was a ball of water. They have no concepts of planets because they live in a pocket dimension on a neverending flat plane. Shulk isnt dumb for not understanding a concept from a completely other dimension with no basis in his own.
The dates in the titles of many of songs from Xenoblade X are from 2012 and 2013 when the game released in 2015, meaning any of the potential lore in songs such as In The Forest might be retconned in the future due to later changes in the story between the songs being made and the game releasing
I have a theory that origin metal is actually just the same material the mechonis was made of. Origin and N’s sword of the end are both black in color, which is very similar to the color of the mechonis. The metal the mechonis was made of could only be cut through using a monado or a weapon made of machina technology, likely of the same material. Assuming flame clocks are made using origin metal, that explains why only monados and origin metal weapons can damage them. This would also make sense for origin metal being able to contain people’s souls/memories, because the mechonis was a sort of vessel for Meyneth’s soul.
They literally say Origin is the original ferronis. So you're right Origin metal is most likely the leftovers of the Mechonis.
@@darkraioxxx Oh yeah I forgot about that, thanks for bringing it up
I just finished Future Redeemed and I enjoyed all your videos on it Luxin. Rly appreciate all of your analysis and I CANNOT WAIT for the next Monolithsoft/Xeno project. This is probably my fav gaming franchise of all time by far atm
Hopefully they'll make Xenoblade 4 or Xenosaga remaster as a early "next Nintendo console" game
I do wonder if Origin Metal is what the low orbital station was built out of. If it were built of a wonder metal potentially derived from secrets they gleamed from the Conduit, which is how Rhadamanthus was able to stay standing for like several millennia and remain untarnished, that could also explain the miraculous properties Origin Metal seems to have in Xenoblade 3.
I'm just spitballing though. lol
OH BOY FILM VIDEO FROM LUX HERE WE GO
SPOILER BELOW! DONT LOOK IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO WATCH THE VIDEO!! Question/Idea for Luxin about something mentioned in the video
had a thought about the "merging" and the power source behind origin. what if it was the annihilation itself that powered the processes of origin? like it was literally stated in 3 that 1 and 2 were once whole, seperated, and now OPPOSITE and yearning for each other. i think if they merged it would be like matter and antimatter and that could power Origin. matter and antimatter release 100% of their energy, compared to nuclear which is only like 1-2% usable. so a big enough source of energy to power everything.
I think it’s already shown very clearly in the game itself. Both moebius and ouroboros needs people from two worlds and if they interlink for too long they gonna overheat and annihilate. The power of ouroboros comes from some sort of controlled annihilation effect is super obvious. Besides the ouroboros cores look very similar to the Origin itself.
I really appreciate the definition and explanation you gave about the term "retcon" at the start, as a non native speaker it was something that I could not understand until you explained it that way.
the radio: exists,
everyone (including Luxin): "hoo, boy, what does it mean?!"
me: "the butter cookies lookin' real tasty like (and I've seen them in animes, too)" priorities, am I right? :D
Oh my god, Luxin, I love you for 31:55 and 32:48. I've always found the backstory for 3 to be complete nonsense and I'm glad other people point it out. Like to add to both, based on the photo and Shulk and Rex's ages, they figured ALL that stuff out in like 20-30 years which is EVEN MORE nonsensical; plus, Origin Metal shouldn't even exist when you realize the worlds are of opposing nature, so shouldn't the 1 Origin Metal and 2 Origin Metal cancel out? Or is just magical spooky McMuffin that always existed and is only relevant now?
Like 33:53 is literally the mentality of 3's worldbuilding and it's hyper frustrating. Either way, great video, as always!
Oh yeah a full length feature film from Luxin.
Curiously, A also refers to ONTOS as male when A explains how Alpha came to be: "Ontos proclaimed himself Alpha and chose to leave for a new world."
Mira being a pocket dimension and the White Whale (along with multiple other alien ships) being sucked into it would allow X to fit into the continuity of 1-3.
Noah did throw Pneuma into the water at the end..... and Mira is a living planet that made 3 seem very familiar.
Words can’t describe the amount of dopamine I get when I see a notification for a Luxin upload
i always thought the yellow and blue balls coming together were particles or atoms coming together, and then the next scene showing an annihilation event right after, and not the whole universes. but the different depictions did throw me off a bit. i like consistency, so visually changing up how we see things confuses me a bit lol
You thought that because that's exactly what is being shown. He's making things up.
My head cannon about Lin’s hair pins is that Xenoblade 1 is a video game in the X universe and she played it before earth was destroyed and was a fan so she made the pins
Cool idea but how does that explain endbringer telethea
Maybe Xenoblade is just Lin's fanfiction the whole time
one thing you mention is Ontos going dormant which isn't what happens what happens is Alvis goes off like the end of Xenoblade 1 says but his personality eventually goes dormant without his connection to Klaus reverting back into his machine like state being Alpha, then Alpha sends his core to Shulk(like how Alpha gives his core to Na'el in FR) so he and the others can create Origin to set up his plan to create Aionios so that the new Life for his new world can be born
so technically this isn't changing what happened to Alvis at the end of 1, but is adding on to it
Although its minor, what about the visual retcons in 1DE? Alvis's key being changed being the most prominent. Those were a change to 1.
That one was to tie in the next stories, I suppose. Alvis is Ontos was broken by the issue that he didn't have an Aegis Core Crystal, so in the "Definitive Edition", they made sure he had one.
omg can i finally watch a luxin video
36:36 “Moebius and Klaus’ lingering stuff”
Yeah I guess when you're talking about the shonen stuff not being planned yet, imo something that wasnt originally planned for a story being added in during the writing process doesnt count as a retcon. Imo for an ongoing series a retcon would only be something that directly contradicts something that has already been established previously.
I need Xenoblade X to get tied into the main series Luxin... don't give me hope.
36:28 it’s worth noting that Alvis’ goodbye from the ending of DE is visually called back by Alpha’s goodbye to Matthew (or maybe it was the original Alvis somehow, since he seemed to have no grudge against Matthew for helping murder him). So Alvis’ words to Shulk about all life walking hand in hand were probably his last words.
25:57 I’m of the opinion that the flashback we saw at the start of Chapter 10 was shown in its entirety to Rex before the third sword dusted, which would explain why he has an emotional reaction to Galea’s ID card after killing her (Infernal Guldo)
Xenoblade has the best form of storytelling
Never fully understand it but will continue to look for every aspect of the game to know more!
A+ video as always. Also yeah I was so annoyed that people on the internet were just like "WOO SAGA IS CANON" without spoiler warnings or anything within days of FR coming out! I hadn't had time to play it yet!!
It's 2 am and instead of sleeping and fixing my sleep schedule, I decided to watch a 44 minute video about Xenoblade retcons
Ooo my day has been made, new luxin vid.
When they eventually reveal that nopon created the Zohar to take over the universe and that’s why they are in every game I’m gonna laugh so hard
Also I like to think Xenoblade 1 birth of the universe is how Zanza remembers it, and Xenoblade 2 is how Klaus remembers it
Cant wait to watch this when i have 47 minutes of spare time
YO that transition to Torna was sick
I don't know if this counts as a retcon, but somewhere in base game ( i belive morytha) jin says that humans and blades used to live togheter in old torna, but when you actually play torna, there is like, 2 blade npcs.
Noticed this as well. Its like Torna wasnt anything special or the meaning was lost.
He was referring to the scene with the Torna titan's "womb" room that you also see in Torna. The Tornans were specifically aware of life cycle between Blades and Titans and cherished it. Many things happening in Torna "taught" Jin about humans and Blades cohexisting peacefully, only for Amalthus to ruin everything.
NEW LUXIN VIDEO, TY!
After a month I naturally check Luxin for a new video cause I'm like "wait there hasn't been a new Luxin video in awhile." My Luxin period flared up earlier and I just barely missed the new video drop 😅
Me: *sees title, remembers Klaus slapping/shoving Galea.*
They literaly uses Definitve Editions look to make a whole 4 secondish snibbit cutscene of shulk picking up the ontos core crystal. That really through me off so much.
I'm personally fond of the idea that the different depictions are due to zanza and klaus remembering it differently. Where klaus lives in the failed world, on the space elevator, with a daily reminder of his crimes against all humanity, and with the conduit just kinda chilling over there of course he'd have a better memory of it than zanza, who is now like a thousand years in a world in which that experiment was successful and he did actually become the God of a new universe. Would also explain the difference in tone between zanza and klaus, where zanza sounded cock sure and triumphant the entire way through, where klaus sounded more passive and just like someone who wanted to see what would happen.
Regarding the Origin material being some super-advanced unknown metal, it is possible that after the events of their respective games, the two parties had access to knowledge of pre-catastrophe Earth and the discoveries made through the Conduit. Shulk and co. had Alvis if he were willing to share, and Rex and co. had tons of ancient Earth ruins they could look through, especially now that they are familiar with the true nature of Morytha. I don't know if they would have been able to grab a whole lot from the tower before it collapsed, though, but there were plenty of ruins with the potential for some records and computers. Alvis could have just shared the technology when the two parties communicated, too.
Hear me out, Xenoblade X takes place after the main trilogy after the reboot of origin, with all races becoming human, as seen in the City. The Earth formed after the reboot of Origin is the same Earth that got destroyed in X. Origin undid Klaus's experiment, and Mira made that undoing all for nothing. Perhaps Mira isn't just a byproduct of Aionios, but rather the last remaining bit of Moebius. Xenoblade X never truly ends, after all. Mira could be purgatory for the undoing of a Klaus's sin. In closing, I don't think X is a separate universe, but rather a follow up to the ending of Future Redeemed.
My big theory: The key we've lost refers to Alvis old model having a key and the original plan was to reintroduce the Zohar in X or the follow up of X and what they scratched. At least I do think that at some point it was planned to have X being connected to 1, 2, 3. They could still do it with different universes and all but it wpuld prolly just be a "Yeah this is the same Game series you know" easter egg rather than expanding on them like 2 did.
"..Alvis was effectively a persona"
I see what you did there
I thought it was pretty clear they used the remains of the Mechonis and the World Tree to make Origin in each world. Origin’s theme has motifs of the World Tree theme and there are very clear Mechonis-like structures all over Origin
26:03 That's a very bold assumption, even for you, Mr. Luxin.
🤔 The only thing that comes to mind, as a casual, is the key changed into a core Cristal, but that's just a design thingy
Nice find on the other sealed worlds, but I doubt that sequence at the start of Xenoblade 3 was those other worlds. It could've just been a close up representation of the Annihilation effect scaled to the size of individual positive and negative ether particles. The demonstration of the two worlds colliding in Nia's explanation with the red and blue spheres is probably closer to what it would've looked like on a planetary scale. It does leave me curious about what these other universes are that were birthed from Klaus's experiment, however. I do agree that X has to be one of these other worlds to explain the Telethia superboss, and considering how what happened to X's earth is basically an annihilation event, its entirely possible that X's universe was destroyed and Mira is in yet another universe. This would also allow X to be part of the xenochronicles/gears lore to not contradict, as alien life can exist in these pocket universes but not at the scale of Xenosaga's part of the lower domain until Xenoblade pops into it and suddenly you wind up with every species from 2 and 1 existing.
Not that anything from Xenoblade is going to matter if the xenosaga does wind up sharing a universe in Xenochronicles 4, because everyone is going to die by the entirety of the lower domain's gnosis or moebius will turn into gnosis by proxy of the millions of gnosis suddenly coming into contact with them and the only weapon that can defeat the gnosis is going to burn up in the atmosphere of a planet completely unfamiliar to the laws of the domain they suddenly find themselves in, meaning they won't discover the hilbert effect in time and Shion won't arrive in time to teach them.
But Xenoblade does have a way to counter Gnosis using Shulk’s monado Rex assuming the concept of filling the bodies with ether is enough to force them into the physical world. I’m not familiar with saga 3 only watching the playthrough of the first 2 games but I could’ve sworn that the Gnosis were somewhat pacified in some way and that’s why they’re returning to Lost Jerusalem to await something, would be funny if it turned out that the Zohar made a return there somehow or they were attracted to Origin due to using the 3 objects closest to it though that would imply Trinity cores are more enticing than Zohar emulators though idk those things and the saga Zohar ultimate fate
@Xeno-The-Wanderer they weren't pacified, they were just teleported to lost Jerusalem, or in other words the fusion of Bionis and Alrest post-Aionios. Also, Fogbeasts and Gnosis are fundamentally different. Fogbeasts are intangible due to a lack of ether, while gnosis are lingering spirits that refuse to merge with U-DO in the upper Domain. The Monado REX just behaves like Enchant and just adds a ton of ether to the fogbeast to give it a more solid form, while the Hilbert effect drags gnosis into the lower Domain within the range of the effect. Even if Enchant+ is used on it, it'd do either nothing to the Gnosis or worse yet power it up if it is to be believed that the conduit links to the Upper Domain similarly to the Zohar and that being the source of ether since you'd just be giving the Gnosis more energy. Keep in mind, Ether is a completely different thing in Saga that is more comparable to nanomachines, so we actually have no clue how much of an effect Xenoblade/Xenogears' definition of Ether would affect Xenosaga, especially due to how unique the rules of Saga's universe is in comparison to the two. All that would be certain in a fused timeline is every single person with even the slightest hint of Moebius in them would become a Gnosis due to the way gnosis can spread their habit of lingering to nostalgia or regret to those they touch with it, and because KOS-MOS only survived the descent in Chapter 1 by tapping into the Zohar, a shut down and broken KOS-MOS stands no chance on descent to Lost Jerusalem.
You said using light to communicate between dimensions is nonsensical. I personally think it touches on annihilation in physics and its theoretical aspects, especially in quantum mechanics, something that's very theoretical. I'd suggest reading more about this if you want to understand more about the annihilation event.
They had a easy out which would not have required Xenoblade 2 to retcon Xenoblade 1 at all since they went through the trouble of changing hair color in the Klaus scenes based on other science fiction one would have assumed both of those scenes happened in different universes along with Klaus himself in 2 confirming the existence of multiple universes. There is also Takahashi claiming that the story for 3 was considered as a sequel before 2 and also Takahashi claiming 2 had no connections to 1 before launch of 2.
To explain Orgin metal, here’s my headcanon since I got 0 proof.
The strongest metal we have on earth right now is Steel, which is an alloy. Perhaps Mechonis metal was simply manufactured and purified with pure ether, until it could withstand ether. That is the ONLY thing, besides Monado and Mechonis metal, that seems to damage mechon (see Zord after falling into Ether). A metal strong enough to withstand the blood of the Bionis should be strong enough to destroy a flame clock.
Once again, 100% headcanon, 0 proof, but it’s my only logical explanation for a metal to be stronger than Mechonis Metal.
IMO, Alvis/Ontos might indeed have shown Shulk a misremembered version of the experiment. Remember how Elysium looks in the memory of Pyra. Real Elysium has a giant wall with a door next to the tree, while there's no such thing in Pyra's memory version of Elysium. She herself calls it a "half-forgotten memory of what once was". So no, the Aegises/Trinity cores don't have perfect memory. Pyra doesn't and Alvis might also not.
As for the Origin metal, they could simply say that it was a byproduct of the new worlds being created in Xenoblade 1 and 2 or even better that “Klaus’ gift” at the end was the invention of the metal to eventually combine the two worlds again.
that god damn radio
Luxin it is 1:40 AM here. I guess I'm sleeping late tonight.
Also, Xenoblade, one and two during the early 2000s the Zohar activated, causing the entire earth to disappear for thousands of years.
Then it reappeared in normal space thousands of years later, in the 4000s which happens 4000 years later. So the dating system was changed to 4000s.
The Xenosaga takes place 4000 years later, in the late 4000s, which is around the same time as the start of Xenogears.
But because of the radio broadcast it change that , pretty much the ship that left earth in the early 2000s, took the Zohar off of earth, but for some reason it was still on earth and cause to disappear for 4000 years then it reappeared in empty space.
10,000 years later, it reappeared on the planet. It went to on the edge of the Galaxy in other solar system.
Which means the Zohar can be at multiple places at once, even if it was renamed the conduit in Xenoblade . It was on earth, in Xenoblade, and the Earth disappear for 4000 years, then it appeared in empty space Xenosaga, then it appeared on the edge of the galaxy in a different solar system at the same.
Which means the Zohar can be in multiple places at once. It was in three places, even though it wasn’t even on earth, and it just reappeared an empty space by itself. It even changed its form in Xenogears.🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
The Xeno timeline is a bit of a mess, because obviously the devs didn’t play or do research on the previous games. Because I hate to say this, the Xeno is old and they are new people that are making the game, younger people that didn’t play the original or didn’t do enough research.
So there’s gonna be a lot of pretty much wrong information which does happen from time to time when basing a new game off of the old one .
Because sometimes the writers, will forgets things from 20 years back . And new writers didn’t do enough research or didn’t play the game at all because they’re harder to get now even if you work for the company.
I'd be so hype if the radio broadcasts in Future Redeemed turned out to be hints toward a remastered version of X that was reworked to fit with the numbered trilogy.
I feel like pocket dimension isn’t the right term I would use. They explain they are full on universes and the word world in Japanese can also mean universes. Add on that when the universal creation events are shown, they are shown as being far more than a small pocket of space but a larger effect which is more explicit at the end of Xenoblade 1. So while they are sealed worlds, it would mean that the world in Xenoblade one was literally an infinite ocean with the two Titans being the only sources of life. They also go out of there way in dialogue to really get across just how massive the worlds are in Xenoblade. So pocket dimensions wouldn’t be what I would call it, but rather its own sealed off multiverse that was created by Klaus
I was just thinking “huh, Luxin hasn’t uploaded in a bit. Wonder how he’s doing”
You make a point at 32:45 that origin metal is a "miracle material", making it sound as if it's something that cannot exist in the worlds of 1, and had not existed within 2. I would beg to differ, however. Going in order of your points, this is my counter argument
You could argue that "Origin Metal" (inside of the world of Aionios) could just be any normal metal from outside of the worlds (like just any old metal, or even Mechon metal) that has its powers given to it form inside of Aionios due to it being what helped form this stopped world. It would similar to how the Manado is an extension of the Trinity processor, being able to do damage to anything inside of its own world (The Bionis). Plus, we know the trinity processor helped create the pocket dimensions found in 1 and 2, and it is also used to help make the world of origin. That could be why the Sword of Origin, (or the Lucky Seven) is able to cut through any element of the world it resides in, being made of the literal fabric of the world itself.
And we can even explain how Origin metal is found within the world of Aionios this way as well. The idea that the worlds of 1 and 2 were scanned, you can assume any parts of Origin would make their way into the combined world as well. You can assume two things with this,
1: There were scraps of Origin metal taken off of Origin during the collision of worlds, sending them scattered as time froze. This would allow for those small shards to be read as data, split into the world, and cast about. Assuming the impact created hundreds of shards, you can explain away all of the pieces found, and used, throughout Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Alternatively...
2: (Forgive me if I get something incorrect here, I haven't played 3 in a while) When Zed brings Origin into the world of Aionios during the events of the worlds collision, it is possible he created enough of a disturbance within Origin to knock loose shards of it. (Especially when it appears over the center of Aionios during Future Redeemed, with Alpha/Falls onto the previously mentioned land in the ending) This could explain how many parts of Origin are scattered around Aionios, and would give in universe events as to why Origin is found throughout all of the surrounding portions of Aionios.
These are atleast my main two theories as to why there is Origin metal found throughout the land of Aionios. Im always welcome to contradictions/counterpoints from other people though!
And, as for the whole "Containing souls" portion... The origin metal outside of Aionos, however, is a bit harder to pinpoint, being able to hold the souls of every living being, as you said. Though, if the idea of ether is put into play, we could maybe surmise that all the metal does is just holds the ether of each being, similarly to how the Core Crystals hold their own data. And, maybe the metal is keeping the data in a way that prevents it from being intertwined fully, (possibly through a coding difference, or some trinity processor malarkey or something?) This could even work similarly to how Mechons can store ether inside of them, the metal of Origin (The half from Bionis) could easily be designed to incorporate that design element. Thusly, this wouldn't particularly need to be a retcon, rather it would just be under-elaborated upon.
Honestly though, it is entirely possible I am just grasping at straws here. I don't know if I have any semblance of being correct, but it really doesn't matter. In the end, this is just to get people thinking, maybe have them create their own ideas for this topic. Either way, thank you for reading this, any of you guys. I don't have many xenoblade friends so this is my way of getting my xenoblade energy out there! :P
38:19 i will never get over this cutscene being used, it makes me laugh everytime
My idea for the xenoblade 2 side having a material to build origin with is that agate found the material. I have the idea that Rex and his party actually pulled every rare blade except the fanservice ones like KOS-MOS and T-elos
I really don't like the idea of there being other pocket dimensions created by Klaus. I feel like it would mess with the ideas of the 1 and 2 worlds being made of opposite kinds of matter, which parallels the current theory of how our own universe began, with matter and anti-matter. Not to mention it being true would bring up even more questions that only complicate this already dense, complex plot that I feel like 3 was already failing to cover enough of. So adding more to it would only lead to more things slipping through the cracks and going unexplained.
Could it be that the Klaus experiment that caused Xenoblade 1's world to be formed in a pocket dimension and it's merge with Alrest is the reason why Earth/ Lost Jerusalem cannot be located in xenosaga? I've always thought about this, but with this video saying 1's world as a pocket dimension could imply that Klaus' experiment had not only recreated a new universe (as klaus said), but also created a pocket dimension that could be separate from the dimension U-DO and other form of beings that could be behind the conduit/ Zohar?
Well, the original lore for saga, which I believe was presented as _theory_ not necessarily proven fact, was that Lost Jerusalem had somehow been shrunk to the plank scale. However, if we assume the pocket universe containing it's remnants is essentially a Klein bottle or something similar using Xenosaga cosmology, both the shrinking and the pocket universes can be true.
But yes, the implications now is that Klaus' experiment is why Lost Jerusalem was lost.
@@badlatency9979if it turns out true, the whole xenosaga to xenoblade (even xenogears) turns out to be perfect work's new interpretatiom of what happens before the events of gears. That'd be amazing.
@@badlatency9979 Isn't the theory that it was to the size of two planks. like how there are two worlds in the blade games.
@@fluxk7506 I'm...not sure, been a while since I delved into every detail of the Saga lore honestly. Maybe?
I still think the Xenoblade X story is going to retconed so it's opening is part of the Klaus experiment and that's what "destroyed the earth"
I did not expect to hear: "Shulk is kinda dumb." lmao
So here's the thing about the Origin Metal stuff, it's implied in Xenoblade 3 that the Ouroboros power was just something Nia and Melia came up with, a retcon to the world's laws and Moebius/Origin itself went along with it. And I think this extends to the Origin metal itself. It may just be regular metal, but because of how the world is controlled by the mind of Moebius it is deemed as this all powerful thing by their rules.
In terms of the pocket dimensions that exist outside of the Xenoblade 1 and 2 pocket dimensions. I think they're not related to Klaus' experiment. Rather, they are pocket dimensions that exist due to the Zohar itself and other events we haven't seen in a plane of existence we don't yet understand.