Im about to drill holes into my flat deck for this. I know i shouldnt even be buying this wheel base. I just started Iracing 2 and half weeks ago. Im still going to get it though. My wife just told me i can get it for my birthday which is Sunday. Hell yes boys. Happy racing
Fanatec direct drive 1 & 2 wheels do not have the wire twist as the wheel rotates, the wire rotates along with the shafts but is attached to a slip-ring type connector that passes the signal through. I just wanted to clear that up because people could think that the wire actually twists up as the wheel rotates which would limit rotation. The fanatec dd 1&2 wheels can rotate forever without the wire ever being affected. I'm not sure about the csl dd but I assume it is the same as the dd1 and 2 otherwise people would be breaking wires like crazy.
In engineering using any device at 100% capacity is not a good idea unless its been over engineered for that purpose ie it can run at 120% for short periods if needed etc... Using 90% capacity if not over engineered will give the device headroom to perform and a longer life. * And almost certainly improve the feeling of the motor characteristics. I think thats why 90% is the best power setting in this case.
Man, I dont know if i am tough enough to try a 21nm base 😁 Im now on 8nm and that is already really great and powerful on ACC. But, Moza really looks great 👍
You don't need more. It's actually becoming unrealistic. RL racing cars, especially with power steering, don't get anywhere close to these number. 10-12 nm is what most consider to be peak for real cars.
Another great review, as always! One thing though (wall of text incoming!): unless I missed something while watching the live tuning part (doing other stuff too) I saw that you didn't touch the Natural Inertia slider, and stated something that, in my experience, is not true. I own an old IONICUBE build with a Small Mige, and have to tune it via Granity Software. There, Inertia is the main tool to manage the mechanical aspect of a servo. The more compact and lively it is, the more inertia you need to add via settings so it doesn't go out of control. It's quite noticeable when you set desktop settings to have a centering spring, turn the wheel 90 degrees and let it go back to center: too little inertia and the wheel will fight the center before finding it. Too much inertia, and it may slow down a lot or even stop completely before reaching the center. This of course improves if you have a more modern controller like the original Simucube, and higher count encoders, but on my case, still having the old Discovery board with MMoS and a 2500 ppr encoder, the inner calculations for PID control are slower and coarser, meaning that it's harder to strike a sweet balance, and removing unwanted spikes on the FFB is hard if you don't want to numb the overall feeling too much. With all that being said: I think that if you would have tried to add a bit of inertia at advanced settings, you could have dialed out a lot of that crazy behavior when you let the wheel go. That looked on par or even worse than my wheelbase, which has a technology that is by now 8 years old, on a field that has advanced A LOT during that timespan. There seem to be lots of tools available on the firmware to dial out any unwanted consequence that may come from adding inertia, which naturally dumbs down FFB. It actually looks pretty potent while still simple, which says a lot about the devs, it looks like developed by simracers who have a lot of knowledge and how to implement it. Kudos to MOZA on this. I don't think you would update such a production video with this detail on tweaking settings, but if you still have the wheelbase mounted on your rig, I would like for you to try fiddling with inertia and at least report back with a comment in here. If what I said is correct, even 1% would have a large impact on wheelbase behavior. Unless, of course, you already did this outside of what you showed on the vid and had bad results. Cheers!
I follow this stuff fairly closely and have not really seen any fully bad reveiws for Monza. I've seen people be critical of their aesthetics (which I don't really like either) and their initial software being a little rough around the edges. But I'm not sure they deserve a bunch of credit for continuing to do business after the minor criticisms. Did you really expect Monza to just give up? Throwing away their large inital investment out the window just because a few people said bad things on the internet? I'm sure they're smart enough to realize their products are not going to be perfect out of the gate. Glad they are bringing more competition the sim hardware space.
Now that I’m thinking about it, it must’ve been a different new direct drive wheel. One that was initially very rough and unrefined, was priced about the same as many better alternatives, and came in a strange orange colored casing.
The bad reviews were on Moza's prototype pedals, which they sent out for review to a lot of reviewers. They addressed the flaws before the pedals reached production, and they were blown entirely out of proportion.
The DD one pro is just better. If mozza wouldn't give anybody any for free and pay every streamer to be all the in people view the would buy fanatec. Actually fabatec did something like this year before that way they get that popular
I wonder if the latest R16 has the same board or not, looks like they have been updating the board and the difference between the 2 may be only the power supply... It would be good to test the R16 with the 13.33A power supply and with the latest software/firmware
Yes, I actually talked to them about that and they said that they have upgraded quite a bit since Barry reviewed the R16 originally. It would be nice to see an updated review of the R16 on this site since they've made the changes.
regarding the flex i'm more upset by SimLab rather than the mounting solution provided by the wheels manufacturers. The aluminium plate is too "soft" and 1) it is damaging easily with the washers/bolts (as it can be see also in your video) 2) is relying only in the tightening of the bolts to avoid movement 3) it is too susceptible to flex as there are no reinforcement trusses between the plate and the angled plates
I've been watching your videos for some time now but I just recently started working in the operating room at a hospital and immediately recognized your pointer tool as an electrocautery or bovie tip. I've never seen that used outside the OR before.
The little Moza base looks great. This thing, although better without the orange fender looking things it’s still so cheap looking to me. I guess its because it doesn’t look like a traditional dd wheel my pea brain can’t compute. It looks more like a fancy Logitech or Thrustmaster. It actually looks like what I’d expect a Thrustmaster dd would look like. Ha
This wheel looks amazing. You are comparing cheap and brittle plastic with metal and paint. Simulated vents with real ones. Cheap wheels want to look like this, doesn't mean they succeed. And with this quick release, nothing looks more pro.
Hey Barry 🎉 thanks for this good vidéo . I have dd1 and i m happy with Just dissapointed about noise ans clonck with hard ffb and change direction Quick. The QR i think.. juste take z ring but the same . In option i see WE must reduced FEI in 70 Thanks realy 😢🎉🎉
Hello, nice and cordial. I think the Lord will help me, maybe advise me. When I connected and wanted to start the R16, it was impossible to turn the steering wheel to the right or left, i.e. the R16 lock. In this situation, what should I do?
After another watch of certain parts I have some questions. I assume since the R16 and R21 weigh exactly the same and have the same dimensions that the motor in each is the same. The only difference between the R16 and R21 being the PSU and the drive circuit? A concern I have when you were talking about the heatsink for the drive MOSFETs is that the heatsink only appears (24:01 I could be wrong) to be attached to four of the six drive MOSFETs meaning that one phase of the 3 phase motor has much hotter drive transistors - not good. Also, you thought (although had trouble seeing for sure) that the input capacitors were 35V. I hope this is incorrect since the input to the base from the PSU is 36V. I would normally use 63V caps on a 36V input. Can you confirm Barry? The R21 is only an extra £100 in a wheel bundle so I was thinking of picking that one up.
неужели сказанное в видео о том если база идет в 21 Нм и убавив процент силы обратной связи ниже 70% детальность будет ниже? вроде смотрел другие обзоры мол что это не так, хотел узнать автор обзора этого руля дичь похоже несет, получается если я хочу пока использовать 5 НМ мне что покупать Moza R9, а потом если мне будет мало надо уже переходить на 12ку?
Very keen to buy this, but I'm quite curious if the mounting slots line up with the GT1 Evo. Or if I need the DD mounting solution ( which I think won't work with this base )
Unfortunately I'm putting my Fanatec stuffs to sell right now. I pulled the trigger on Moza and the €300 CS steering wheel. Hopefully Moza support will be less bad than Fanatec. Getting out of the Fanabubble without spending a cent ,and hopefully getting more power and quality.
I assume you did it but you didn't mention it, did you calibrate the wheel? There's an anti-notchiness calibration where the wheel rotates and feels where the motor poles are, to then compensate for it.
I believe he is referencing the VRS Directforce Pro. He stated that it was close and the software lacking was the difference. I gave my SC2 pro to my son as I prefer the feel of the VRS but that's definitely subjective although many people agree with me. I would take the VRS over anything available today as it performs better in my opinion. Simucube has wireless wheels if you care about that. I assemble my own wheels and ran USB with my SC2 and it was a great system, for the most part you'd struggle to tell the VRS and SC2 from one another. The VRS makes the simucube and fanatec DDs seems WAY overpriced.
@@gregvandy8902 yeah I have a vrs as well with the latest firmware it's so good I love all the new smoothing options. But to say u enjoy it more than simucube that's wow making me feel like I really got my money's worth.
Hi Barry, could you do a review of the Next Level Racing Motion Plus? I think it's quite an unique product and I think your hardware reviews are unparalleled. I am very interested in your opinion of it.
The VRS in my opinion is way ahead in price to performance. What's really amazing is that many people, myself included, prefer the VRS over the simucube. It feels more realistic. The fact that it costs about half, has top notch build quality makes it the only direct drive to buy in my opinion. The software is very minimal. That's the downside, but it doesn't take much of any tweaking at all. It's just awesome right out of the box.
@@gregvandy8902, as someone who plans on buying the VRS DFP, I recommend the Moza to most people because the VRS software is way behind their competitors. Only hard-core sim racers/Esports drivers have the patience to put up with the obnoxiously unintuitive VRS software. Moza brings a fantastic UI without a multi-month waiting list for their products. Also, unlike VRS, they have brought not one, but TWO wheel lines to market while we are still waiting for a single VRS wheel after more than a year.
Hi Barry, at 1:13:16 you mention the updated software potentially making a difference for the R16. Since you still have an R16, could you try it out and let us know if a similar improvement was felt on that unit? Perhaps you could leave a comment here or in your R16 review. Good to hear MOZA is improving their lineup, and thanks for your detailed and thorough reviews!
Just set up my R5... It's too strong! In ACC, i run @60% in game, 100% in Pit House. Details are amazing, much more solid and stronger than my old Fanatec FSR Elite!
Imo, it's better (from a features, performance, and value standpoint) than any of the Podium series offerings, but the Fanatec wheel ecosystem makes the DD1/2 a compelling buy nonetheless.
French thrustmaster - made in china, same with german Fanatec... Europe should've thought about that 30 years ago minimum... that train already left the station, too late now.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I hope you will review the Moza CS wheel and the SRP pedals
Im about to drill holes into my flat deck for this. I know i shouldnt even be buying this wheel base. I just started Iracing 2 and half weeks ago. Im still going to get it though. My wife just told me i can get it for my birthday which is Sunday. Hell yes boys. Happy racing
Sheeesh if you mount this 21nm unit to your desk you're gonna fly out your window mate ! 😂
how'd it go, lol, i assume you caved and got a full rig?
Fanatec direct drive 1 & 2 wheels do not have the wire twist as the wheel rotates, the wire rotates along with the shafts but is attached to a slip-ring type connector that passes the signal through. I just wanted to clear that up because people could think that the wire actually twists up as the wheel rotates which would limit rotation. The fanatec dd 1&2 wheels can rotate forever without the wire ever being affected. I'm not sure about the csl dd but I assume it is the same as the dd1 and 2 otherwise people would be breaking wires like crazy.
In engineering using any device at 100% capacity is not a good idea unless its been over engineered for that purpose ie it can run at 120% for short periods if needed etc... Using 90% capacity if not over engineered will give the device headroom to perform and a longer life. * And almost certainly improve the feeling of the motor characteristics. I think thats why 90% is the best power setting in this case.
My Fanatec DD1 is about ready to hit second hand market, they have just fallen behind.
Man, I dont know if i am tough enough to try a 21nm base 😁 Im now on 8nm and that is already really great and powerful on ACC. But, Moza really looks great 👍
You don't need more. It's actually becoming unrealistic. RL racing cars, especially with power steering, don't get anywhere close to these number. 10-12 nm is what most consider to be peak for real cars.
@@DropkickNationWe need to build up these muscles my man.😚
Another great review, as always!
One thing though (wall of text incoming!): unless I missed something while watching the live tuning part (doing other stuff too) I saw that you didn't touch the Natural Inertia slider, and stated something that, in my experience, is not true. I own an old IONICUBE build with a Small Mige, and have to tune it via Granity Software. There, Inertia is the main tool to manage the mechanical aspect of a servo. The more compact and lively it is, the more inertia you need to add via settings so it doesn't go out of control. It's quite noticeable when you set desktop settings to have a centering spring, turn the wheel 90 degrees and let it go back to center: too little inertia and the wheel will fight the center before finding it. Too much inertia, and it may slow down a lot or even stop completely before reaching the center. This of course improves if you have a more modern controller like the original Simucube, and higher count encoders, but on my case, still having the old Discovery board with MMoS and a 2500 ppr encoder, the inner calculations for PID control are slower and coarser, meaning that it's harder to strike a sweet balance, and removing unwanted spikes on the FFB is hard if you don't want to numb the overall feeling too much.
With all that being said: I think that if you would have tried to add a bit of inertia at advanced settings, you could have dialed out a lot of that crazy behavior when you let the wheel go. That looked on par or even worse than my wheelbase, which has a technology that is by now 8 years old, on a field that has advanced A LOT during that timespan. There seem to be lots of tools available on the firmware to dial out any unwanted consequence that may come from adding inertia, which naturally dumbs down FFB. It actually looks pretty potent while still simple, which says a lot about the devs, it looks like developed by simracers who have a lot of knowledge and how to implement it. Kudos to MOZA on this.
I don't think you would update such a production video with this detail on tweaking settings, but if you still have the wheelbase mounted on your rig, I would like for you to try fiddling with inertia and at least report back with a comment in here. If what I said is correct, even 1% would have a large impact on wheelbase behavior. Unless, of course, you already did this outside of what you showed on the vid and had bad results.
Cheers!
Gotta give Moza credit, shrugging off all the bad initial reviews and forging ahead.
what was wrong initially
I follow this stuff fairly closely and have not really seen any fully bad reveiws for Monza. I've seen people be critical of their aesthetics (which I don't really like either) and their initial software being a little rough around the edges. But I'm not sure they deserve a bunch of credit for continuing to do business after the minor criticisms. Did you really expect Monza to just give up? Throwing away their large inital investment out the window just because a few people said bad things on the internet? I'm sure they're smart enough to realize their products are not going to be perfect out of the gate. Glad they are bringing more competition the sim hardware space.
Now that I’m thinking about it, it must’ve been a different new direct drive wheel. One that was initially very rough and unrefined, was priced about the same as many better alternatives, and came in a strange orange colored casing.
The bad reviews were on Moza's prototype pedals, which they sent out for review to a lot of reviewers. They addressed the flaws before the pedals reached production, and they were blown entirely out of proportion.
The DD one pro is just better. If mozza wouldn't give anybody any for free and pay every streamer to be all the in people view the would buy fanatec. Actually fabatec did something like this year before that way they get that popular
I wonder if the latest R16 has the same board or not, looks like they have been updating the board and the difference between the 2 may be only the power supply... It would be good to test the R16 with the 13.33A power supply and with the latest software/firmware
Yes, I actually talked to them about that and they said that they have upgraded quite a bit since Barry reviewed the R16 originally. It would be nice to see an updated review of the R16 on this site since they've made the changes.
regarding the flex i'm more upset by SimLab rather than the mounting solution provided by the wheels manufacturers. The aluminium plate is too "soft" and 1) it is damaging easily with the washers/bolts (as it can be see also in your video) 2) is relying only in the tightening of the bolts to avoid movement 3) it is too susceptible to flex as there are no reinforcement trusses between the plate and the angled plates
Barry, thank you for reviewing these. It's always good to see what options are on the table.
Is this wheelbase a good replacement over fanatec podium dd1?
I've been watching your videos for some time now but I just recently started working in the operating room at a hospital and immediately recognized your pointer tool as an electrocautery or bovie tip. I've never seen that used outside the OR before.
heyy guys i just bought the r9 wheel base and was wondering can any alternative petal work with this ?
For PC any USB pedal set will work
Great review as always Barry. Would love to see you review the Fanatec CSL DD/DD Pro wheelbases.
@Dev Guy Yeah. He hasn't covered either of those wheelbases yet.
Hi, whats your daily driver wheel base?
I'm also curious about what would be considered a better option than R21
@@DaveEsotic simucube
Turn the min. Force in the Game to Zero, the ocs. is gone!
The little Moza base looks great. This thing, although better without the orange fender looking things it’s still so cheap looking to me. I guess its because it doesn’t look like a traditional dd wheel my pea brain can’t compute. It looks more like a fancy Logitech or Thrustmaster. It actually looks like what I’d expect a Thrustmaster dd would look like. Ha
R9 looks more expensive than this lol
This wheel looks amazing. You are comparing cheap and brittle plastic with metal and paint. Simulated vents with real ones. Cheap wheels want to look like this, doesn't mean they succeed. And with this quick release, nothing looks more pro.
Hey Barry 🎉 thanks for this good vidéo .
I have dd1 and i m happy with
Just dissapointed about noise ans clonck with hard ffb and change direction Quick.
The QR i think.. juste take z ring but the same .
In option i see WE must reduced FEI in 70
Thanks realy 😢🎉🎉
Thanks for sharing. I wish you still made videos for UA-cam.
What happened to Berry?
Oranges weigh more than limes.
Hello, nice and cordial. I think the Lord will help me, maybe advise me.
When I connected and wanted to start the R16, it was impossible to turn the steering wheel to the right or left, i.e. the R16 lock. In this situation, what should I do?
those are 27 inch? look bigger. too bad samsung put a dang curve on there new neo g7 4k, thats what i wanted for 3 screens. but curved 😞
What a detailed review! Definately worth watching before buying, i think. Thank you, Sir!
43 min intro. Only on SRG 😂
Yay what a rig. WIll you stream any of ACC or rFactor2 mate?)
If you buy from the website and live in the US do you have to pay any sort of import tax or any tax in general (minus the sales tax)?
After another watch of certain parts I have some questions. I assume since the R16 and R21 weigh exactly the same and have the same dimensions that the motor in each is the same. The only difference between the R16 and R21 being the PSU and the drive circuit? A concern I have when you were talking about the heatsink for the drive MOSFETs is that the heatsink only appears (24:01 I could be wrong) to be attached to four of the six drive MOSFETs meaning that one phase of the 3 phase motor has much hotter drive transistors - not good. Also, you thought (although had trouble seeing for sure) that the input capacitors were 35V. I hope this is incorrect since the input to the base from the PSU is 36V. I would normally use 63V caps on a 36V input. Can you confirm Barry? The R21 is only an extra £100 in a wheel bundle so I was thinking of picking that one up.
1:11:30 what wheel were you talking about when refering to a wheel tahts getting very close to your daily wheel?
неужели сказанное в видео о том если база идет в 21 Нм и убавив процент силы обратной связи ниже 70% детальность будет ниже? вроде смотрел другие обзоры мол что это не так, хотел узнать автор обзора этого руля дичь похоже несет, получается если я хочу пока использовать 5 НМ мне что покупать Moza R9, а потом если мне будет мало надо уже переходить на 12ку?
Anyone know if the R16 has improved from the original review with newer firmware releases?
Great review. Hard to choose between simagic alpha and the r16.
i got the same problem...both are great wheelbases
SRG need some T-shirts and other Merch with "So...Lets Get To It" on 'em. C'mon Barry R. Make it happen Please.
Barry doesn’t like merchandising . He wrote about it on his website
One review of Simulaje BMW 2.0 please...
Nice wheel, but that shaking when hands off is so unrealistic
Very keen to buy this, but I'm quite curious if the mounting slots line up with the GT1 Evo. Or if I need the DD mounting solution ( which I think won't work with this base )
Good day barry, can you please share your Moza setup?
Unfortunately I'm putting my Fanatec stuffs to sell right now. I pulled the trigger on Moza and the €300 CS steering wheel. Hopefully Moza support will be less bad than Fanatec. Getting out of the Fanabubble without spending a cent ,and hopefully getting more power and quality.
If we're close by, I might be interested. Wanna get into direct drive, since I wasn't feeling it with my first wheel (T300Rs GT).
Hey Barry, is your go-to still the Kollmorgen AKM54G servo?
Interesting that the deck flexes. Curious to the material type and selection used.
Who is the best em relação ao csl DD🤔?
Nice review... ✌️💪
I assume you did it but you didn't mention it, did you calibrate the wheel? There's an anti-notchiness calibration where the wheel rotates and feels where the motor poles are, to then compensate for it.
where do we do this
I wanna know if that notchiness is there with the CSL DD
I'd love to get your review and tuning for the GT DD Pro
Nice fluro orange shorts Baz!
i find it odd that people chose the worst physics in sim racing to judge how a wheel performs.
I'm guessing your daily is simucube but what is the one that keeps updating their firmware that is your 2nd favorite?
I believe he is referencing the VRS Directforce Pro. He stated that it was close and the software lacking was the difference. I gave my SC2 pro to my son as I prefer the feel of the VRS but that's definitely subjective although many people agree with me. I would take the VRS over anything available today as it performs better in my opinion. Simucube has wireless wheels if you care about that. I assemble my own wheels and ran USB with my SC2 and it was a great system, for the most part you'd struggle to tell the VRS and SC2 from one another. The VRS makes the simucube and fanatec DDs seems WAY overpriced.
@@gregvandy8902 yeah I have a vrs as well with the latest firmware it's so good I love all the new smoothing options. But to say u enjoy it more than simucube that's wow making me feel like I really got my money's worth.
Hi Barry, could you do a review of the Next Level Racing Motion Plus? I think it's quite an unique product and I think your hardware reviews are unparalleled. I am very interested in your opinion of it.
is the VRC still the best wheel base when you compare price and performance?
The VRS in my opinion is way ahead in price to performance. What's really amazing is that many people, myself included, prefer the VRS over the simucube. It feels more realistic. The fact that it costs about half, has top notch build quality makes it the only direct drive to buy in my opinion. The software is very minimal. That's the downside, but it doesn't take much of any tweaking at all. It's just awesome right out of the box.
@@gregvandy8902, as someone who plans on buying the VRS DFP, I recommend the Moza to most people because the VRS software is way behind their competitors. Only hard-core sim racers/Esports drivers have the patience to put up with the obnoxiously unintuitive VRS software. Moza brings a fantastic UI without a multi-month waiting list for their products. Also, unlike VRS, they have brought not one, but TWO wheel lines to market while we are still waiting for a single VRS wheel after more than a year.
What wheel base does Barry use as his daily?
Bodnar SS2
Hi Barry, at 1:13:16 you mention the updated software potentially making a difference for the R16. Since you still have an R16, could you try it out and let us know if a similar improvement was felt on that unit? Perhaps you could leave a comment here or in your R16 review. Good to hear MOZA is improving their lineup, and thanks for your detailed and thorough reviews!
barry doesnt talk to us
what wheel base is he using right now? whats best?
I think he still uses the Kollmorgen motor as his daily driver
Been waiting on this one!
Thank god Fanatec has to step up their game
Just set up my R5... It's too strong! In ACC, i run @60% in game, 100% in Pit House. Details are amazing, much more solid and stronger than my old Fanatec FSR Elite!
how does it compare with the fanatec wheel?
Which one? They have 3 of them
Imo, it's better (from a features, performance, and value standpoint) than any of the Podium series offerings, but the Fanatec wheel ecosystem makes the DD1/2 a compelling buy nonetheless.
İt is notchy ?
Chinese company can you imagine if we were driving russian-made wheelbases Taiwan is next. Our money will be safer in Europe just saying🤑
French thrustmaster - made in china, same with german Fanatec... Europe should've thought about that 30 years ago minimum... that train already left the station, too late now.
@@kowalski3892 sorry I mean a****** countries
@@edcadlick2650 why on earth do you censored the word ASIAN? It's not only about China
@@mArvAlcao71 it's not about Asia would you buy a Russian made wheelbase.🤔
@@edcadlick2650 which one is made in Russia?
1st