How to Analyze and Use Writing Advice

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  • Опубліковано 23 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 84

  • @AlexaDonne
    @AlexaDonne 6 років тому +84

    🔥🍵🙌
    Love, love, love. The whole point about how critique is easier than writing well, and how you can see the faults in something but not necessarily implement the correct techniques in your own writing... SO TRUE. It's why it's not an given that someone who is a voracious (or famous) reader is then going to write an amazing, perfect book. I know I fall into this--I know how to explain structure and pacing. Does that mean I nail pacing in my novels? I mean I try, but I know I'm prone to slow starts and rushing my third acts. We do the best we can with what we have? That said, there's plenty of stuff that I share/teach/explain and I KNOW I'm good at it--I practice what I preach. And then there are other topics where I know my audience wants to hear about something that I'm maybe not at an expert level at myself, but I can still synthesize the information on it so it's helpful. I find often by making myself explain certain craft, it does actually help me in my own writing, so it's a constant experience of leveling up.
    AND YET. I 100% care whether the person giving me writing advice is a good writer and, specifically, a good storyteller. I try to be objective: something doesn't have to be to my taste, or even be perfect, for them to be "good enough," in my view, to talk authoritatively about writing. But if what I see is just upsettingly novice writing or the storytelling lacks a sophistication... that kills it for me. BUT BUT... if someone doesn't have any writing material I can evaluate and I like the way they give advice? It doesn't matter as much? So it's a matter of whether the person has released publicly work that I am able to evaluate. That said, I'm also at a point in my career where I need advanced level advice, myself, so I do have a pretty high benchmark for myself? I think most 101 writing advice can be distilled by almost anyone--we're all regurgitating the same topics anyway.
    I have so many more feelings, and it's a complex topic. I've seen some upsettingly bad (and incorrect) craft advice on videos with SO MANY VIEWS and complimentary comments, and I just imagine alllll these writers taking heinously bad writing advice with them into their work? But none of us can control how someone else evaluates what warrants "good" or "bad" advice sources. Indeed, I saw a video from someone who basically said I give good advice but I'm a bad writer, so GIANT SHRUG EMOJI.

    • @PsychologyandChillwMichi
      @PsychologyandChillwMichi 6 років тому +1

      It's true to some degree that knowing the quality of someones writing can affect how you view their work. It's interesting how these biases sneak in and mess with our mind or our subconscious. But also, they say that you put yourself around people you want to be more like, so if you don't like their writing, then probably you won't want to listen to them and their advice a whole lot because all you'll be thinking is, "I don't want to be more like them."

    • @SamReevesWrites
      @SamReevesWrites 6 років тому +5

      Just because someone proves good at something doesn't mean they can teach it. Sometimes they don't understand their own process. Sometimes they are afraid or superstitious about analyzing it. The best learning comes simply from doing it. The evolution of a writer--even the evolution of a story--is a slow process. It takes countless failures before the inexperience begins to shed naivete and confusion.

  • @maidden
    @maidden 6 років тому +33

    Personally, I feel like it's not that critiquing is easier than writing (though it may be), but that they are two separate skills. Both are valuable, most of us get a lot more practice in critiquing through reading than in writing.

    • @claremiller9979
      @claremiller9979 6 років тому +8

      I think you're right, they are definitely different skill sets. There's also the additional skill of conveying critique well, which anyone who has tried to write a review of something and failed knows well (raises hand). Skills upon skills, as with anything it's worth being open to advice buy also PRACTICING. No one gets good at something simply by thinking about it.

  • @Sabrina-yl6bg
    @Sabrina-yl6bg 6 років тому +32

    I just decided to take a break from my chapter when I got the notification. Proof that Shaelin is psychic.

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  6 років тому +5

      I Know All

    • @horsesrmylife78
      @horsesrmylife78 6 років тому +2

      Omg Sabrina! Your photo is so cute! Not creepy, I’m a straight girl I swear lol. Good luck with your book!! :)

    • @Sabrina-yl6bg
      @Sabrina-yl6bg 6 років тому

      @@horsesrmylife78 Thank you. :)

  • @KatharineFrancis
    @KatharineFrancis 6 років тому +14

    Exactly. We've all heard the same advice but the person presenting it just puts their personality to delivering it.

    • @KatharineFrancis
      @KatharineFrancis 6 років тому

      But God forbid if you tell certain people that. They tend to turn around and claim you're just jealous of their popularity. I call bullshit. Keep doing you and know that your advice is just as valuable as everyone else's.

    • @devinkourunk4371
      @devinkourunk4371 6 років тому

      [Telegram (for you;:)] some characters are tasked with delivering information, because it takes place in another setting, you have chosen not to show.

    • @KatharineFrancis
      @KatharineFrancis 6 років тому

      @@devinkourunk4371 um.... what is that comment referring to? Am I missing something here?

  • @SAVYWRITESBOOKS
    @SAVYWRITESBOOKS 6 років тому +15

    YOU WERE A COMPETITIVE ARCHER?! That's so cool! Anyway, great video! It can be SO OVERWHELMING with how much writing advice is out there, especially on author twitter! I'm new to authortube so I'm trying to figure out how to frame my tips/advice videos, and I might focus more on motivation. Also, that paw that popped up was cute :)

  • @notcutty6631
    @notcutty6631 6 років тому +4

    It's interesting how your advice on analyzing and using writing advice applies to any type of advice, really - especially the part about taking the advice that works for you and your specific situation. It feels like one of those universal truths that can definitely bear repeating, even in the specific context of writing advice.

  • @conorlooney3295
    @conorlooney3295 6 років тому +30

    20 min video? Gotta get a cup of tea.

  • @PsychologyandChillwMichi
    @PsychologyandChillwMichi 6 років тому +3

    I love your attitude so much in this video. I agree with you completely on this. I think this can expand to any topic when it comes to advice, even self-help, music, etc. And also, if someone READS they can give some writing advice purely in the fact that they know what's good or bad for them, so to some degree, being a reader makes you able to give some advice.
    When it comes to the process, that's more sticky, but honestly, you should try out the advice that WORKS for you, not if it works for anyone else. Their writing skill doesn't matter. I haven't honestly read most writing of the authors/writers that I follow because I like their advice and it has helped me tremendously.

  • @boswcheydoesart1314
    @boswcheydoesart1314 6 років тому +12

    So I'm writing a sci-fi graphic novel titled Desecration. Every day this month, I'm taking it to my school's writing center for a look from an extra pair of eyes, and usually some new ones at that. Already I have some things to say on this topic.
    Don't be afraid to get feedback, no matter what it is, just so long as you're smart where you're getting it from. Talk to local professionals, see if there's a writing center that'll give your stuff a look. Pretty much anyone who's generally pretty smart and has the priority of helping you improve over insulting you is a good source of feedback.
    Also don't be afraid to disregard pieces of it. I'm only a few days into editing and already I've gotten pieces of feedback that I didn't feel too good about, pieces I just ignored because I did the opposite thing on purpose, and some pieces that were plain GENIUS and I genuinely wish I thought of myself! It's a 50-50. Always worth a shot; just know you won't always get something useful.

    • @boswcheydoesart1314
      @boswcheydoesart1314 6 років тому

      Hey thanks dude :D

    • @SamReevesWrites
      @SamReevesWrites 6 років тому +3

      Yes. I would add that if one person tells you something is wrong with your story, you can dismiss this as opinion. If ten people say the same thing is wrong with it, you've just found where your story is broke.

  • @lukeriehm737
    @lukeriehm737 6 років тому +16

    when you say you’re finally gonna be productive and get off your phone, and then you find this...

  • @SamReevesWrites
    @SamReevesWrites 6 років тому +4

    Your video contains a lot of sage advice. As far as judging whether an advisor is an authority on writing, I have always believed that there is a difference in knowing something and understanding it. Knowing it merely means the person holds an awareness of that thing. Understanding it means that the knowledge has become a well-worn tool for them. Is the writer knowledgable or wise? The difference between the two is experience.
    And, honestly, there is nothing wrong with rules. They help us. They keep us from being overwhelmed with too many options. The trick is to understand the rule well enough to know when it's okay to break it.
    That said, if you're talking about someone beating a fledgling writer with a rulebook, then the writer should ignore everything of which that authority is trying to convince them. These people are basically bullies who if they walked into a New York publisher's office vomiting their nonsense, they would be laughed out the door and most likely fail to see their parking validated.

  • @cjpreach
    @cjpreach 6 років тому +2

    Good video. Writing is like Soup. Many, many wonderful ingredients exist in this world, but it is the PARTICULAR COMBINATION of ingredients, as well as the PREPARATION that determines the quality of your results. And then, different people have different preferences in soups. He likes tomato, she likes French Onion, and you like veggie soup. Additionally, in writing you first learn the "rules," then you are able to "break the rules" in a way that still "works." No wonder writing is so difficult.

  • @jessicagrzado8664
    @jessicagrzado8664 6 років тому

    Thank you for being such a real voice on UA-cam! It's so important to remember writing is subjective and different rules are really just other people's preferences.

  • @NicoleCreates
    @NicoleCreates 6 років тому +2

    Solid advice, lady! I'm in total agreement, and I hope people take this to heart.

  • @marichka-mulligan
    @marichka-mulligan 6 років тому +3

    I had an epiphany regarding this last summer. One person's advice just stopped clicking with me and I felt kind of frustrated and betrayed, but then I read their writing and realized it was just the opposite (in regards of style an genre) of what I wanted to write.

  • @allansantos1615
    @allansantos1615 6 років тому +3

    It's like with movie critics. The fact that they have enough technical knowledge about filmmaking to point out flaws and give praises does not mean they would be able to make a perfect movie. One skill is about observation and articulation, the other is about expression and creativeness. And both art and opinions are subjective. In every opinion, there's a personal bias, and every piece of art is able to touch people differently.
    The big problem I see is that a lot of people people don't look for a movie critique (or writing advice) because they want to learn and inquisite about the subject, but because they want validation. They want to find someone "qualified" to tell them they are right to think the way they do. And if this "qualified" someone doesn't give them what they want, they begin to question your qualifications to rationalize to themselves that they can't possibly be wrong. The same mentality goes behind people that throw out grand statements about absolute "truths" and "rules" that MUST be followed, they are just saying "it's right because it's MY way, and MY opinion is the only possible truth".
    In any case, if you are looking for advice, reviews, critiques or whatever, do it with an open mind. Learn to see other perspectives. Be inquisitive. Question everything, especially what you already hold to be true.

  • @starlightstarbright26
    @starlightstarbright26 6 років тому +2

    A great video! I loved it! I definitely understand - and have understood for a while now - that sometimes people can give great advice but might not be able to implement it. Some people are better editors than actual writers and that's totally fine.
    That's not an indication someone's being disingenuous as much as it is that that is someone's standard of and for writing they might be trying to attain and see in others.
    I do have a little problem with the "always" and "never" people. I feel like, if you're giving advice, you do need to make it clear that you're giving opinionated advice for the sake of the new writers out there who might not know that they can absorb the advice, take what they want, and then go their own way. It's okay to have one or two people with this mentality, but when you have tons of sources where the attitudes are very set-in-stone when it comes to writing, it feels like the TRUTH. It took me such a long time to realize this myself when I was younger.
    I do feel like it is the responsibility of the advice-giver to make it known that they have preferences and that their advice has worked for them, that it's opinionated etc. Just so they don't contribute to this culture we have on online writing communities (and, hey, some IRL ones too) that there's only one way to be good. Of course there doesn't have to be a disclaimer before EVERY piece of advice but some more emphasis on doing what works for you and using words like "always" and "never" less might be helpful.

  • @macwylan1977
    @macwylan1977 4 роки тому

    You give really good advice. It doesn't matter if you can write well or not.

  • @BlockDriver
    @BlockDriver 5 років тому

    I love flowery writing in some genres. Fantasy or romance for example. In a historical fiction thriller though, it gets in the way for me. As far as advice goes. This is the best writing advice video.

  • @melodid5023
    @melodid5023 6 років тому +3

    Stephen King says you don't need an outline because it takes away the fun and the mystery. It doesn't work for everyone even though he is brilliant. :) good video shaelin

  • @tigerlily-px5ng
    @tigerlily-px5ng 6 років тому +1

    Cool video, thank you for sharing your opinions! love that music in the end of the video :)

  • @peetakaranasios5342
    @peetakaranasios5342 6 років тому +2

    As a creative writing student, what writing crafts books do you suggest?(Books that might not be hyped but that have personally helped you and that offer exercises along with advice)

  • @lydiamacclaren6413
    @lydiamacclaren6413 6 років тому

    Interesting video to think over, and I think your last point about how individual people’s writing processes can be really can reflect the reality of the other two categories of writing advice. Each writer should be interested in learning more about the craft, and advice should be considered and experimented with but at the end of the day if it doesn’t fit right with your style or you would rather modify it... that’s fine! Writing is such a broad and flexible craft!

  • @davidleonardflanagan
    @davidleonardflanagan 6 років тому

    So much of this applies to all art forms not just writing! Excellent points as always 😄

  • @jackhammer4499
    @jackhammer4499 4 роки тому +2

    People who say "always" or "never" are NEVER credible. ALWAYS.

  • @willtitone8844
    @willtitone8844 6 років тому +4

    Always love a good Shaelin video before locking myself in my brainstorming freezer

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  6 років тому +1

      I just got out of the brainstorming freezer myself. good times

  • @MrFright2010
    @MrFright2010 6 років тому +3

    It might just be me, but the whole "preferences =\= rules" sounds a lot like the "correlation =\= causation" misinterpretation happening elsewhere on the web.

  • @lizzychrome7630
    @lizzychrome7630 6 років тому +1

    Great advice on advice!

  • @ryanratchford2530
    @ryanratchford2530 6 років тому +3

    3:44 It’s far more important what is being said than WHO is saying it.

  • @redacted8573
    @redacted8573 6 років тому +2

    thanks tapestry queen ✌

  • @Hxarh
    @Hxarh 6 років тому +8

    Everyone knows that if you want to write a good book, the ideal process begins with a goat sacrifice. Just saying...

  • @SaveMoreThanHoneyBees
    @SaveMoreThanHoneyBees 6 років тому +2

    Always ready for them hot takes when you upload :D~

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  6 років тому +4

      hot takes and chaos: just two of the valuable services I provide around authortube

    • @SaveMoreThanHoneyBees
      @SaveMoreThanHoneyBees 6 років тому +1

      @@ShaelinWrites also fiery hair cuts, because oh my

  • @audiobrew
    @audiobrew 6 років тому

    Really enjoying your thoughts. Subscribed now.

  • @Jestercorp
    @Jestercorp 6 років тому +2

    "Anyone can be a cook!"
    -Ratatouille

  • @ilovebeinagirl
    @ilovebeinagirl Рік тому

    OK, as a physician, I can DEFINITELY say that it matters when someone who isn't an expert gives advice. I hear so many false and sometimes dangerous advice that people have given my patients. I then have to deprogram that misinformation, and sometimes I get side-eyed or pushback b/c what I've said isn't the same thing that their plumber or hairdresser said. Writing is tricky since it's subjective in many ways, but I prefer to take advice from people who walk their talk. It's fine to give generic advice based on no experience, but experience it what field-tests that advice and confirms if it's valid, practical, realistic, or helpful or not.

  • @SSSoto17
    @SSSoto17 6 років тому +2

    AWWW VINNIE MADE A CAMEO

  • @cwfcwfcwf
    @cwfcwfcwf 6 років тому +1

    Shaelin, you have studied this profession in such detail for so long, that I have no problem thinking your advice should be set in stone. You obviously have an impressive IQ.

    • @cwfcwfcwf
      @cwfcwfcwf 6 років тому

      @@justinliu5061 She started writing when she was very young and now she has almost four years of college studying the art of writing and related subjects. I think it's safe to say that she knows what she is talking about.

  • @flowerwolf0787
    @flowerwolf0787 6 років тому

    I really enjoy your videos!

  • @sircockingtonroachbachthethird
    @sircockingtonroachbachthethird 4 роки тому

    Hi. Sorry if you have already but I really find your videos helpful and I was wondering if you could do a video on writing characters with special needs/mental disorders? I cant find any other than anxiety and depression. Just a suggestion, dont mind me if I'm out of line asking.

    • @sircockingtonroachbachthethird
      @sircockingtonroachbachthethird 4 роки тому

      P.S. my absolute favorite person for writing advice. Truly a lifesaver.

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  4 роки тому +1

      Hi! Since this is a topic I don't have much personal experience with, I don't think I feel qualified or comfortable to make a video on that topic. Sorry!

    • @sircockingtonroachbachthethird
      @sircockingtonroachbachthethird 4 роки тому

      @@ShaelinWrites I understand, thanks for the videos you do make

  • @al22st
    @al22st 6 років тому

    Hello! Do you have a email adress or recommend a place where I can send a piece of my writing for review? Thank You!

  • @yapdog
    @yapdog 6 років тому

    I tend to avoid giving advice because i do tend to be way outside the mainstream of writerly thought. I get: "It works for you, but I would never tell people to write that way." or "I wasn't taught that way." So, really, even if you're giving something new and different you're basically "talking to the hand". However, success can be the great ear opener. We'll see.......... Anyway, great video :^)

  • @MrShaiya96
    @MrShaiya96 6 років тому +1

    " I should be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen Angel."

  • @aidenhall5301
    @aidenhall5301 5 років тому +1

    Okay but who reads Shaelin's writing and *doesn't* like it (no one)

  • @SotraEngine4
    @SotraEngine4 3 роки тому

    Process writing advice is honestly quite unhelpful
    If something works
    Continue doing that

  • @xnogenesis2451
    @xnogenesis2451 2 роки тому

    I find you very interesting got yourself a subscriber

  • @augusthawley5504
    @augusthawley5504 6 років тому +2

    When you were scrolling on Tumblr and get the notification

  • @amycalvo9516
    @amycalvo9516 6 років тому

    Finally! Someone who thinks exactly the same way I do!

  • @LivingDead53
    @LivingDead53 6 років тому +5

    Get it all out! I've only been offended one time with advice, and it was "my bad." I eventually became angry and said, "You've never written anything!" She came back and said, "I know from the books I read." Damn. I'm not fishing for compliments. I know I'm not a "good author" yet -- or ever. Most of the time, I'm open to feedback. I would have probably been nicer if the person who said that hadn't been cyber-stalking me.

  • @Lisa_Flowers
    @Lisa_Flowers 6 років тому

    OH MY GOSH the 'because' thing has haunted me to this day. I didn't know it was fine in creative writing and now I'm kinda mad because I vehemently avoided it lol

  • @Spider-Matty
    @Spider-Matty 6 років тому

    I know this is way off topic and I’ll never receive a message from you, but I have had the biggest crush on you since I first came across your channel.

  • @shanshangalan8074
    @shanshangalan8074 5 років тому

    i am forty three and I been writing since I was eight years

  • @AbbeeRambles
    @AbbeeRambles 5 років тому

    Wow I didn't expect this tea to be so hot

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  5 років тому +2

      NEITHER DID I but it just came out scalding

  • @dianaenright8848
    @dianaenright8848 6 років тому

    I love to write. I just have no ideas on what to write.

  • @LotharLive
    @LotharLive 6 років тому

    But this isn't a rule... jk :D I know this is an important topic for you and I hope it will stop being a problem you have to pay attention to!
    all the best, Shaelin

  • @yapdog
    @yapdog 6 років тому

    Oh, the carnage! :^)

  • @boredfangerrude
    @boredfangerrude 6 років тому +3

    Shaeling is a fraud confirmed! Your suppose to give us perfect advice that is always just right for us regardless of our style and what we we are writing! 😁

    • @ShaelinWrites
      @ShaelinWrites  6 років тому +4

      dammit I have been exposed *gasps*

    • @boredfangerrude
      @boredfangerrude 6 років тому

      Five days later, I realize my typo. XD Sorry about that.

  • @devinkourunk4371
    @devinkourunk4371 6 років тому +1

    It is mostly about peoples [cough cough]-(audiences) [standards]-opinions. If you are too [formulaic]- formal, (a formula or formatted) in your style you may suffer from problems like a lack of adaption-[ creativity, or reaction (your choice;:)] Advice is problem solving... [ "You don't fix,(what/[?]/) ain't broken"] without a problem, they're diagnosing-[diagnostic] theoretical future problems, so you can cure yourself. [Reaction]-" I won't take the car a(part) [because]-/and try to fix a [solid] function(ing, it), but given my skill set a tune up, or [red flag]-!- nos. Injection..." Might make it ["better"]-(mod)-faster. ...side effects include; regret, frustration, asking yourself["ow my god] what have I become", hatred and other emotions directed at people with advice... If you experience any or all of these stop taking the advice and consult your doctor immediately. ...Also this is realll!y... none of my business, but you may [(want)] to see another doctor, for that second opinion. Even the possibility of my doctor being wrong, or not informing me of other treatment options would be disappointing, in buisiness options are all you have[ with an upward inflection] by now.

    • @devinkourunk4371
      @devinkourunk4371 6 років тому +1

      I hope someone will appreciate my emotes chin... It's there...

  • @thatoneweirdgirlvlogchanne3647
    @thatoneweirdgirlvlogchanne3647 5 років тому +1

    You're only 21? I thought you were like 23!

  • @kennethmatthew9638
    @kennethmatthew9638 2 роки тому

    Best book is sandman by Neil Gaiman